what do people think will be the result of capellos first match
win loose or draw?
http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2008/02/EnglandSwitzerland_details.htm

I think we will win, but it is more a case of how we play rather than the result. He hardly knows the players has had no time with the players so for me its down to luck as much as anything.

He seems to, be a guy who knows his own mind, and uses sensible discipline to develop healthy respect.
Having said that I really still want an Englishman to manage England.
Should we go on to win the world cup under Capello and his Italian background team, who has won it Italy or England?
4-0 to England

I was so engrossed in some website it took me 3 minutes and 23 seconds of match play to realise England were playing and it was them on TV (even after briefly glancing over at the minutes silence...).

Oops! Call myself a football fan!?!?

The score? Who knows.

what do people think will be the result of capellos first match...


Not bothered, it's a friendly.

The guys making the right noises, let him bed in, and lets judge him by the important results yet to come.

Talk of "should he give Beck's his 100th cap", "should he really be doing xxxxxxxx", is all a load of BS...

...what I want is England results, and if he delivers them (and I think he can)...

.."that'll do nicely".

But tonight, give him chance to find his feet.

:thumbsup:

Damn, Jenas, what were the odds on that.

Wouldn't mind a pound for every time Ashley Cole has slipped over.

Give him time, we will soon have 1-0 down to a fine art ;)

Give him time, we will soon have 1-0 down to a fine art ;)

Is that supposed to be helpful?

Comments like that will just encourage our "gutter" press to hound whoever is in the post of manager...

...for once can we not please get behind the manager, and team who could deliver, without needlessly joining in with pointless vitriol?

:nono:

Capello had three training sessions to get England into shape, which we all know is impossible :( when did us England fans lose our sense of humour :roll:i thought thats all we had left ;)

Capello had three training sessions to get England into shape, which we all know is impossible :(...

Hell yeah...

...when did us England fans lose our sense of humour :roll:i thought thats all we had left ;)

Until now...

...just believe.

:)

I have big belief that Capello will turn England round :) just like Sven Goran Eriksson, Steve McClaren :D , Graham Taylor, Terry Venables etc Enjoy the2008 UEFA European Football Championship, commonly referred to as Euro 2008 in Austria and Switzerland, from 7 to 29 June 2008 :thumbsup:

had some good touches but needs work, but like we said he's only had them a few weeks, felt a lot more comfortable watching them than i did when mcclaren was in charge

they certainly TRIED to play better football and the early signs are encouraging- lets leave him to work with the players and he will come good.

Looked only just better than a McClaren England performance at times to be honest. But it's encouraging that he's picking the form players and he's only had a few days with them.

Jenas and Bentley didn't let him down.

I thought Ashley Cole and Wes Brown were shocking though.

agreed, jenas worked very hard and bently did too although you could tell he was carrying a knock.

bridge is our best option rather than cole but i think capello will have learned that.

Nervous first half, better second half. The 4-5-1 formation didnt suit us, back to 4-4-2 with wingers is probably the only option.

Been watching African Nations recently so last nights game was a bit of a knock about in the local park in comparison. Fabio will do OK with the tools he has but after last night it strengthens the argument for improving youth academies. Most of last nights England players are surrounded by foreign talent when they play for their clubs and usually let them do all the "fancy" stuff. There is not one English player at the moment that you could put in the same sentence as the likes of Ronaldo, Torres, Drogba etc.
Until J. Cole grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck and made the 1st goal, England looked like a pub team. even Rooney didn't show any strength in the box. As for Gerrard being voted man of the match, where did that come from? Ok he assisted SWP's goal but J Cole did more work to set up Jenas.
England need to develop their own skillfull players and stop relying on the foreign ones that surround them in club level.

Watching the match last night there were some poor individual performences,Gerrard did nothing for the first 60 mins but pass the ball into noman's land & he ran around like a headless chicken,I do not know who gave him the MOTM but they must have been watching a different game,Brown was plain awful,Cashley Cole should not have been on the pitch & I think Rooney would have made a better captain as the lad ran his heart out.Jenas played well & Cole & I would leave the 3 above out of the team and put them on the bench to show they are not the best in the country.If you took out all the foreign players out of the top 4 teams & made an England 11 out of the rest they would struggle in the PL.It is time they showed some courage when wearing the 3 lions shirt.

Apart from maybe Bentley, not one of those England players could be considered to be the best player at their club team.

Apart from maybe Bentley, not one of those England players could be considered to be the best player at their club team.

Well that would be because the english premiership only has 38% english players.


If we want the best league in the world on our doorstep it has to come at a price and im afraid that means having a shi* national team.

IMO, Capello should make a strike partnership out of Walcott and Agbonlahor. They are a couple of in form young strikers with an appetite for scoring goals and a flair for skill. Then build his team round them. he has no commitments this summer, and i'm not being sarcastic, so It gives him plenty of time to pair them up.

how is walcott in-form? he;s not even starting for arsenal and in the january transfer window he was very close to going out on loan?

and what about rooney? one of the best strikers in the world- leave him on the sidelines for 2 unproven youngsters?



ill have non of your scottish spoiling tactics on this thread ;) ;)

IMO, Capello should make a strike partnership out of Walcott and Agbonlahor.
i'll give you abonglahor but walcott cant get in the arsenal team at the moment and looks like a shadow of the kid that did so well at southampton, wenger has ruined him. I don't think he'll get many starts at arsenal he's gonna have to move to get more first team football. Same could be said for a lot of players now england team isn't just picked on reputation. Players who aren't playing regularly wont get picked so moves on the cards for crouch, bridge and walcott and a few others i hope

i thought young was gonna feature last night as well, where was he?

Time and patience required.
(not that there will be much of that when the press get bored. Have already seen a couple of hatchet jobs and he's only had one freindly.):loopy:

First impressions. Not much to go on really i dont think. Though the fact he has been prepared to take a look at people on the strength of club form and not reputation is refreshing.

i thought young was gonna feature last night as well, where was he?

He came on for about the last ten minutes, didn't really have much time to anything. The best thing he did was win a corner

how is walcott in-form? he;s not even starting for arsenal and in the january transfer window he was very close to going out on loan?

and what about rooney? one of the best strikers in the world- leave him on the sidelines for 2 unproven youngsters?



ill have non of your scottish spoiling tactics on this thread ;) ;)

10 goals out of 22 appearances so far, course he is one of the best strikers in the world!! :cool: I'm not trying to sabotage England team, I just think if Walcott and Abonglahor were teamed up they would make a good strike partnership. You have to play a player to prove him and he is doing well for under 21's. It's not like England have any important matches in the near future so now is an ideal time to do it. Football is like any other team sport, you need to score goals/points to win so IMO the strikers are the base from which to work from.

how is walcott in-form? he;s not even starting for arsenal and in the january transfer window he was very close to going out on loan?


he needs to go somewhere to prove to everyone he can do it. i do agree with you in a way scottishdude they may well be our most effective partnership by the time WC comes around

He came on for about the last ten minutes, didn't really have much time to anything. The best thing he did was win a corner

aaah, i fell asleep toward the end (yes it was that good) i'd heard he was gonna start is all

10 goals out of 22 appearances so far, course he is one of the best strikers in the world!! :cool: I'm not trying to sabotage England team, I just think if Walcott and Abonglahor were teamed up they would make a good strike partnership. You have to play a player to prove him and he is doing well for under 21's. It's not like England have any important matches in the near future so now is an ideal time to do it. Football is like any other team sport, you need to score goals/points to win so IMO the strikers are the base from which to work from.

but rooney is a far far far far better striker than him- so on what grounds do you think he should be dropped- he ran around like a silly bugger last night and played excellent apart from being a little wasteful in his shots.

Same old England I thought. No adventure- No style. We need a bit of class and some good young hungry strikers.

but rooney is a far far far far better striker than him- so on what grounds do you think he should be dropped- he ran around like a silly bugger last night and played excellent apart from being a little wasteful in his shots.

He can play like God for all the difference it makes - you don't get any credit for being impressive. If the ball doesn't go in the net, you're no good.

Well that would be because the english premiership only has 38% english players.


If we want the best league in the world on our doorstep it has to come at a price and im afraid that means having a shi* national team.

Yeah that's pretty much my point. People have high expectations of England because of the high standard of the Premier League.

Watching the match last night there were some poor individual performences,Gerrard did nothing for the first 60 mins but pass the ball into noman's land & he ran around like a headless chicken.
It's true Gerrard was not the MOTM but he was certainly one of Englands better performers on the night Tosh. You say he 'ran around like a headless chicken' and 'passed the ball into no-mans-land' but that is part of a midfielders job - working hard and passing the ball!
You then mention Rooney below!
Rooney would have made a better captain as the lad ran his heart out.
Oh so Rooney ran his heart out? Not 'ran around like a headless chicken'?
Rooney is a striker, and a strikers job is to score goals not just 'run around!
Atleast Gerrard was doing what is in his job description. Although playing quite well (as mentioned before) Rooney consistently fails to do what he is actually in the team for, and that is to score goals.

Apart from maybe Bentley, not one of those England players could be considered to be the best player at their club team.
You have to consider the positions of each player though NEKRO to decide on if they are the best at their club or it is irelivent. For example:

James - Best Goalkeeper at his club? Yes.

Ferdinand - Best CB at his club? Yes.

Upson - Best CB at his club? Yes.

Gerrard - Best CM at his club? Yes.

Rooney - Best striker at his club? - Probably.

Anyway, don't we all repeat consistently that it's not about the 'star players' or the individuals within the English side, but instead being about the players that are chosen, to play as a unit, to play as a 'team'?

NEKRO, it doesn't matter a dot whether a player is considered to be a clubs best player - why should it?

You have to consider the positions of each player though NEKRO to decide on if they are the best at their club or it is irelivent. For example:

James - Best Goalkeeper at his club? Yes.

Ferdinand - Best CB at his club? Yes.

Upson - Best CB at his club? Yes.

Gerrard - Best CM at his club? Yes.

Rooney - Best striker at his club? - Probably.

Anyway, don't we all repeat consistently that it's not about the 'star players' or the individuals within the English side, but instead being about the players that are chosen, to play as a unit, to play as a 'team'?

NEKRO, it doesn't matter a dot whether a player is considered to be a clubs best player - why should it?

I'm not saying they aren't good players, I'm just making the point that talent brought in from other countries is overshadowing the homegrown talent in the Premiership and I think it's having an adverse effect on the national side.

Same old England I thought. No adventure- No style. We need a bit of class and some good young hungry strikers.
If not for injuries Micheal Owen would (and could still end up being) Englands best ever goalscorer. Owen (however much people slate him) nearly always scores when in an England shirt, so on that basis, surely when fit he should be Englands number one striker, either alongside Rooney or on his own?

If not for injuries Micheal Owen would (and could still end up being) Englands best ever goalscorer. Owen (however much people slate him) nearly always scores when in an England shirt, so on that basis, surely when fit he should be Englands number one striker, either alongside Rooney or on his own?

the question is- can he play with rooney?

I'd be starting with Agbonlahor when he's fit. He is England's in form striker.

I'm not saying they aren't good players, I'm just making the point that talent brought in from other countries is overshadowing the homegrown talent in the Premiership and I think it's having an adverse effect on the national side.
True to an extent mate but if you analyse other top teams throughout Europe, the exact same thing is apparent yet their country doesn't suffer.

Take Italy for example. AC Milan have many top Italian players but their best player is Kaka - a Brazilian. In Spain Barcelona have Ronaldinho (Brazilian), Messi (Argentinian) etc etc. Real Madrid have many great Spanish stars yet most of their goals come from an ugly Dutchman!

My point is that I don't believe foriegn players is the sole route of our problems! I think it is also down to the way we are tought how to play the game at a very young age. Technically, English players are a million miles behind most of the rest of Europe and you can't blame that on players from overseas!

the question is- can he play with rooney?
No it isn't! The question should be - can Rooney play with Owen?
If not then Rooney has to be the one to make way as he nearly always fails in the department that he is employed - goalscoring, whereas Micheal nearly always comes up with the goods!

What absolute rubbish. How can anyone take you seriously when you come out with utter tosh like that?!
Playing with Owen is like playing with 10.5 men. Ask yourself -what has he ever won??
Exactly.

I'd be starting with Agbonlahor when he's fit. He is England's in form striker.
Would he score more consistently than Micheal Owen? I doubt it very much. Is Agbonlahor a better prospect than Rooney? I doubt it very much!
On that basis I fail to see how playing Agbonlahor would benifit or improve England at all!

What absolute rubbish. How can anyone take you seriously when you come out with utter tosh like that?!
Playing with Owen is like playing with 10.5 men.
His goalscoring record for England suggests that you are the one talking rubbish Guddy! Owen scores goals consistently. Rooney scores goals every now and again. Considering that we are talking about strikers here, on what basis do you base your arquement that Rooney should always start before Owen? Or is it just that his name is Rooney and he plays for Manchester Utd?

It's true Gerrard was not the MOTM but he was certainly one of Englands better performers on the night Tosh. You say he 'ran around like a headless chicken' and 'passed the ball into no-mans-land' but that is part of a midfielders job - working hard and passing the ball!
You then mention Rooney below!

Oh so Rooney ran his heart out? Not 'ran around like a headless chicken'?
Rooney is a striker, and a strikers job is to score goals not just 'run around!
Atleast Gerrard was doing what is in his job description. Although playing quite well (as mentioned before) Rooney consistently fails to do what he is actually in the team for, and that is to score goals.

At least Rooney deserved to wear the shirt ,he never stopped ,not like Gerrard who did nothing for 60 minutes,why is it everyone in football & out of it say's why can't Gerrard play for England like he plays for Liverpool,can you please tell me & the whole country, outside of Liverpool of course.

Playing with Owen is like playing with 10.5 men. Ask yourself -what has he ever won??
Exactly.
:huh: What has that got to do with it? So are you saying that an England team should be picked based on the amount of trophies that a player has won? Rooney has only recently just won his first major trophy! Owen has won several barring a league title! Your arquement is flawed mate.

What has James ever won? Bentley? Jenas? Upson? Are you saying that these players shouldn't be considered because of their lack of medals?

I wouldn't mind but Owen has won more than Rooney :hihi:

At least Rooney deserved to wear the shirt ,he never stopped ,not like Gerrard who did nothing for 60 minutes,why is it everyone in football & out of it say's why can't Gerrard play for England like he plays for Liverpool,can you please tell me & the whole country, outside of Liverpool of course.
Why didn't Gerrard deserve to wear the shirt? Ok he wasn't MOTM but he was one of the better players on the night! And what exactly does Rooney do when playing for England, run his socks off? He is there to score goals, something he consistently fails to do! The mere fact that people on here are debating who should start upfront for England suggests that Rooney isn't doing something right doesn't it?

And why Tosh does Gerrard seem to be the main focal point after every England match when many other players have under-performed at a much larger scale? Could you explain to me and the whole country, mainly from Liverpool though of course. :D

No it isn't! The question should be - can Rooney play with Owen?
If not then Rooney has to be the one to make way as he nearly always fails in the department that he is employed - goalscoring, whereas Micheal nearly always comes up with the goods!

i agree with you to a point but rooney brings more to a team as a whople, he works harder, he holds the ball up, he hassles defenders and pushes them around- owen just can;t do that!!!

i agree with you to a point but rooney brings more to a team as a whople, he works harder, he holds the ball up, he hassles defenders and pushes them around- owen just can;t do that!!!

You don't win games by working hard, holding up balls, hassling defenders ... you win by putting the ball in the back of the net. We need someone who can do so on a regular basis.

Actually, I'm not yet convinced that Owen is still the player he used to be, but if he is - this is a complete no-brainer. To win games, you need goals. Owen scores goals. Rooney tends not to.

i agree with you to a point but rooney brings more to a team as a whople, he works harder, he holds the ball up, he hassles defenders and pushes them around- owen just can;t do that!!!
Here is a caption from an article I read regarding Owen and England:


He is by far and away England’s current playing highest goalscorer, 4th in the all-time lists with 36 goals in 80 games, a very good record at International level. He is also still only 27 which means he will probably go on and break the record. He is the only England player to have scored in four major international tournaments; World Cup 98′, Euro 2000, World Cup 2002, and Euro 2004. This could’ve been extended had he not got injured against Sweden.

One other stat which is most improtant however is his goals in competitive games for England, matches in qualifiers and major tournaments. He holds the joint record with Gary Lineker on 22. This is particularly important now as it is clear that there have been a distinct lack of goals for England in the reign of Steve McClaren. England have scored 9 goals in 6 competitive games, though it must be remembered that 8 of these were in the 2 games against Andorra. There have been no goals against Macedonia (home), Israel (away) and Croatia (away).

Whether or not Owen can hold the ball up better than Rooney, or who infact works the hardest, the fact is that had Micheal Owen been fit during the Euro qualifiers, England would have qualified!!!!

Now why Guddy (or anyone else) thinks that what i'm saying is rubbish is beyond me, the facts tell the story as it is!

Would he score more consistently than Micheal Owen? I doubt it very much. Is Agbonlahor a better prospect than Rooney? I doubt it very much!
On that basis I fail to see how playing Agbonlahor would benifit or improve England at all!

Luckily Michael and Gabi have taken the thinking out of it for you.

He IS scoring more consistently than Michael Owen!

Luckily Michael and Gabi have taken the thinking out of it for you.

He IS scoring more consistently than Michael Owen!
This is about International football, not the Premiership (just to take the thinking out of it for you)!

I meant - Would Gabi score more consistently FOR ENGLAND? I answered no, but I think you knew that anyway!

This is about International football, not the Premiership (just to take the thinking out of it for you)!

I meant - Would Gabi score more consistently FOR ENGLAND? I answered no, but I think you knew that anyway!

I think he would at this stage, yes (if fit). That's not to say that Owen won't be good enough again. I know he's a good striker, his record is brilliant, but he isn't at his best at the moment.

Capello is picking the form players, not just the 'best' players.

What's he supposed to judge them on if not their premiership performances?

How can he judge Agbonlahor at international level without seeing him play?

Should he just put Owen in the team because he scored a hatful of goals for England a couple of years back?

No.

Why didn't Gerrard deserve to wear the shirt? Ok he wasn't MOTM but he was one of the better players on the night! And what exactly does Rooney do when playing for England, run his socks off? He is there to score goals, something he consistently fails to do! The mere fact that people on here are debating who should start upfront for England suggests that Rooney isn't doing something right doesn't it?

And why Tosh does Gerrard seem to be the main focal point after every England match when many other players have under-performed at a much larger scale? Could you explain to me and the whole country, mainly from Liverpool though of course. :D

Because Gerrard was the captain on the night, do you honestly believe he did enough as a captain because me and most of the country said different.I like Gerrard but for England he doesn't seem to do it & of course if you read my post I said Brown & Cashley Cole should never wear the shirt again they were the worst on the pitch,Gerrard played well for the last 30 minutes but that is not what you require at International level you have to play for the 90 mins or so,Rooney ran his heart out even getting back defending how many strikers do that in the PL,not many.

I would have left Gerrard out of this match just to see how it went.

Ok, we know Jenas, Bentley, Young, Wright-Phillips etc aren't as good as Gerrard, but if they play effectively in the system used by the team, you can't argue with it.

I still think Gerrard will come good for England. It says a lot about him as a player that despite not being at his best, they continue to try and base the midfield around him.

If Capello can get it right, England really will be a very good team.

Because Gerrard was the captain on the night, do you honestly believe he did enough as a captain because me and most of the country said different.I like Gerrard but for England he doesn't seem to do it & of course if you read my post I said Brown & Cashley Cole should never wear the shirt again they were the worst on the pitch,Gerrard played well for the last 30 minutes but that is not what you require at International level you have to play for the 90 mins or so,Rooney ran his heart out even getting back defending how many strikers do that in the PL,not many.
Do you think John Terry did enough as captain considering the fact that we didn't qualify for the Euro's under his leadership and that we were absolutely awfull during the qualifying games?

Do you think that Rooney has done enough as our leading striker when you consider the fact that he hardly ever scores which as a result means that England will not be taking part in the Euro's this summer?

I'm not saying Gerrard has been great for England, for from it, but the finger has to be pointed at the whole England team, not just Gerrard, which is often the case because of his level of performances for his club! People say Capello picks the players that are playing well for their respective clubs. Well if that is the case then Gerrard will be an ever-present while Capello is in charge. For Liverpool Gerrard is confident, he is the driving force and he is the boss on the pitch. For England Gerrard is a player amongst other players that when put together just can't perform. The confidence of the England side is gone and it shows with the performances of the big players such as Gerrard and Rooney etc.

The fact is though mate that England didn't qualify for the Euro's because we couldn't score the goals against the weaker sides in our group. Goalscoring is ultimately the responsability of the strikers and Rooney and Co have to be held accountable for that. Is it a coincidence that when Owen was fit and playing alongside Heskey England looked far better and were scoring goals, compared to when Rooney returned and the poor results and performances returned, just like they were prior Owen/Heskey? I still believe strongly that had Owen been fit and playing instead of Rooney, England would now be looking forward to a summer of football and booze instead of watching the Euro's on the TV thinking what might have been whilst slurping on a warm flat Shandy!

Capello is picking the form players, not just the 'best' players..
To an extent he is but how do you explain the inclusion of Wes Brown at RB. Or the fact that Capello played Rooney (who hasn't scored many goals recently in the Premiership or for England) as a lone striker before moving him out to LM with the introduction of Crouch upfront?
Should he just put Owen in the team because he scored a hatful of goals for England a couple of years back?
But it wasn't just a while back was it? Owen (after a massive injury lay-off) came back recently for England and what did he do? He scored. Even when not playing at club level Owen always scores for England. At International level there are not many strikers better than Owen, he just knows how to score goals in that arena!

Ok Rooney might come off the pitch at the end of a game sweating like a Russian Shotputter, whereas Owen might look like he could run another 5 miles, but if England win 1 - 0 from a Micheal Owen goal giving England all three points in a very important qualifier, instead of England drawing 0 - 0 with Macedonia with Rooney walking off drenched in sweat - which would you rather have?

Give me the 3 points every day mate!

Owen is a terrific goal scorer there is no doubt but he has one fundamental flaw at the momnet and that is his fitness.
He hasn't been fully fit for many years form my point of view so do you base the spine of the team on a player that hasn't been fit for many years ? no you dont.
We were a totally different force when Crouch came on so should we include him in the spine of the team?
Is Gerrard influenced by his bimbo when on international duty?

Owen is a terrific goal scorer there is no doubt but he has one fundamental flaw at the momnet and that is his fitness.
He hasn't been fully fit for many years form my point of view so do you base the spine of the team on a player that hasn't been fit for many years ? no you dont.?
No but do you play a striker that when fit will almost garauntee you goals? Yes you do. If Owen is available for selection then he should be picked. If Owen is not available for selection then he shouldn't, it's that simple!
Is Gerrard influenced by his bimbo when on international duty?
:huh: Again i'll ask what Gerrard has to do with this considering how he was one of the better performers the other night?

Another one to add to the 'Anti Gerrard' bandwagon hey :rolleyes:

Do you think John Terry did enough as captain considering the fact that we didn't qualify for the Euro's under his leadership and that we were absolutely awfull during the qualifying games?

Do you think that Rooney has done enough as our leading striker when you consider the fact that he hardly ever scores which as a result means that England will not be taking part in the Euro's this summer?

I'm not saying Gerrard has been great for England, for from it, but the finger has to be pointed at the whole England team, not just Gerrard, which is often the case because of his level of performances for his club! People say Capello picks the players that are playing well for their respective clubs. Well if that is the case then Gerrard will be an ever-present while Capello is in charge. For Liverpool Gerrard is confident, he is the driving force and he is the boss on the pitch. For England Gerrard is a player amongst other players that when put together just can't perform. The confidence of the England side is gone and it shows with the performances of the big players such as Gerrard and Rooney etc.

The fact is though mate that England didn't qualify for the Euro's because we couldn't score the goals against the weaker sides in our group. Goalscoring is ultimately the responsability of the strikers and Rooney and Co have to be held accountable for that. Is it a coincidence that when Owen was fit and playing alongside Heskey England looked far better and were scoring goals, compared to when Rooney returned and the poor results and performances returned, just like they were prior Owen/Heskey? I still believe strongly that had Owen been fit and playing instead of Rooney, England would now be looking forward to a summer of football and booze instead of watching the Euro's on the TV thinking what might have been whilst slurping on a warm flat Shandy!


How do you account for, that Rooney in his first 16 matches playing for England in his preferred and best position (the so called second striker) then ask to play left wing, right wing, up front on his own and god knows where during the last few years had in those first 16 matches a better goal(9 goals he scored) per match ratio than Owen .

Ability
Fitness
Form


Players need all Three not just one.

No but do you play a striker that when fit will almost garauntee you goals? Yes you do. If Owen is available for selection then he should be picked. If Owen is not available for selection then he shouldn't, it's that simple!

:huh: Again i'll ask what Gerrard has to do with this considering how he was one of the better performers the other night?

Another one to add to the 'Anti Gerrard' bandwagon hey :rolleyes:

I just wonder is there any intent with your defence of Gerrard?
Gerrard is a terrific player i hate the way he plays referees as like many other players.
Was he one of the better players? not sure myself.
Is the reason for his hit and miss performances for England due to the fact that his friend is there wanting to get in the media spotlight?
As for Owen his fitness for me is a problem and with that fact i would go for the Villa lad or crouch up front.

Ability
Fitness
Form


Players need all Three not just one.


Yes
and form suffers when you are not in a settled position which is why I think Rooney suffered.
He is a far far better player playing between midfield and a striker.

Now can anybody name me a player who has played in as many different positions for England as Rooney. Now let me see how many positions has Owen played

If not for injuries Micheal Owen would (and could still end up being) Englands best ever goalscorer. Owen (however much people slate him) nearly always scores when in an England shirt, so on that basis, surely when fit he should be Englands number one striker, either alongside Rooney or on his own?

POint taken LFCMadPaul- I was a Shearer fan (huge) and agree Owen has been the 2nd best- but he only plays productively with a striker he feels compromises him (Hesky for example). He has not been able to apply the killer instinct he has when playing with any other striker. I think Rooney is overated by the way- apart from the burst in euro 2004, its not been smooth for him.