View Full Version : Info request: long term fostering
djelibeybi 28-01-2008, 21:22 I'm hoping to get my own flat this year and dearly miss my cat.
Unfortunately, due to my current financial situation due to disability, I'd find it extremely hard to find the funds. Living alone in my own place would feel so empty, and I've seen on the Internet that some rescue centres in other parts of the country are willing to place animals with people on a long term fostering basis with financial assistance.
Does anyone know of a rescue centre local to south Sheffield which operates a long term assisted fostering scheme for elderly cats (over 12 years old) who are looking for forever homes and need to be house cats due to FIV or similar restrictions?
I am a sucker for runts and underdogs, and find it heartbreaking that so many elderly, disabled and ill cats are being overlooked in rescue centres because they're not "perfect". Once I have my own space, I'd love to share it with an elderly cat who needs cuddles and somewhere of their own during their last years. It'd break my heart, but I know I'd get as much back from them as they'd get from me.
It's going to be many months before I'm able to actively look, but like anything else, I always do my homework before implementing anything. I'd also need a couple of months in my new place to let my finances settle and sort out furnishings, so there's no rush.
Many thanks.
(I did use the search facility but couldn't find anything relating to something of this specific nature)
Moonbird 28-01-2008, 22:33 What a fantastic thing it is you are wanting to do :D fostering an older animal can be really rewarding for us humans too.
I'm not sure of any rescues in south Sheffield but I do know a lady in Firth park who is very deserving and need help very much(which is more north I guess) all rescues are desperate for fosterers just like you.
Good luck and let us know when you have your first cat... you do know that we will expect lots of pics I hope :hihi:
holidayhutch 28-01-2008, 22:40 A huge pat on the back for you, it is a wonderful thing you are wanting to do. We adopted a cat from Sheffield Cat Shelter many years ago now. It had one eye, was a house cat and wasn't used to human contact. He was such a frightened old man at 14, but I fell for him and took him home and we had almost 2 very happy years with him. Yes it broke our hearts when we had to let him go, but we also got comfort in knowing he lived his last years being loved. Good luck
I think that many of the charities have cats out in foster homes long term who can't be rehomed because of health issues or whatever.
The one thing that I think would make this a hard thing to do would be if you worked full time. Many cats who are in long term foster need to be with people who are around for making regular vet visits (up to once a week for some cats) and who are confident in administering medication and monitoring the cat's health. Working full time would make that really hard.
Long term fosters also don't crop up very often and the number is partly dependent on the charity's policy on how to treat cats with FIV and FeLV. Because of the very high risk of transmission of the viruses to other cats in the shelter, Sheffield Cats Shelter and many other charities which work from centralised shelter buildings have animals which are identified with FIV/FeLV put to sleep. This is also due to the feeling that if an animal is already sick enough to be identified as needing testing, then even with treatment their quality of life is likely to be poor and their remaining days are likely to be short.
There are, however, many charities which operate with different policies on FIV/FeLV and many charities which operate mostly through foster homes don't have the transmission risk problems with the viruses. For this reason it's likely that Cats Protection branches and charities that operate in similar ways are likely to have more cats looking for long term fostering.
Either way round I'm sure that most of the charities would welcome contact from a potential foster home, even if it takes time to be set up.
There is a desperate need for fosterers for rescues, as many foster placements fall through. The fosterer ends up keeping the pet they foster and then another and then another so therefore are unable to carrying on fostering.
One of the reasons I couldnt foster, and why I have ended up with a housefull. I wish I could stop myself.:hihi:
I take my hat off to anyone who can successfully foster, they are worth their weight in gold.:love:
Good luck
djelibeybi 29-01-2008, 14:44 Not wanting to let a cat go, and wanting to keep them is part of why I'm investigating long term fostering / providing a forever retirement home for an elderly cat. I'd love to just get a kitten like most cat lovers, but being unable to work at the moment through a balance disorder and depression (and have been for nearly two years now), I don't relish the idea of going through the potential destruction and manic behaviour of a kitten again (along with litter training!).
My financial situation is pretty dire, having had to fight for 10 months to get the DWP to reinstate my Incapacity Benefit, but during the next month I'll have it reinstated and all back monies paid. Even so, my income is now considerably alot less than when I worked as a computer software technician. It won't be forever though.
It's a cop out hoping to take on an elderly cat which won't last as long as a youngster, but I don't want to risk taking on a kitten if there's a danger my situation will change and I may have to forgo ownership, especially when I get to live in rented accommodation. I want companionship and a relationship with a cat, but hate the thought of letting them down residentially.
I will recover from my illness with the right treatment and circumstances, and will get back to work full-time, so as Medusa points out, a needy cat such as one requiring frequent trips to the vet would suffer as a result, and that's the last thing I would want. Denying a cat what it needs the most is counter-productive to my whole idea of providing them with a loving and secure home environment in their twilight years. This is why I needed to do my homework in advance, and I value everyone's opinions on this.
Essentially, I adore cats as companions, and love the way they display their own personalities and foibles. I had my cat, Djelibeybi (pronounced Jellybaby) from when he was a kitten aged about 6 weeks. I had him put to sleep when his kidneys failed aged 13 and a half. During his lifetime, my home situation was so unstable, he was moved around alot and lived with my parents a large portion of the time due to my circumstances. I never want to let a cat down like that again.
I admire the dedication and compassion of staff and volunteers at rescue centres, and looking through various websites of organisations across the country (especially via Cat Chat), it broke my heart to see the number of senior kittizens overlooked by adopters. When I get my place, it's only going to be one bedroomed, and is most likely to be a flat, so a house cat would be a better idea, but not essential. That'll depend on the surrounding environment. Obviously my thought of considering an elderly cat with FIV, or a disability like deafness, stems from taking on a cat that needs to be kept indoors, but as my health recovers, going back to work would be detrimental to a cat that needs alot of attention.
Djeli was the runt of the litter, and I am a sucker for those less fortunate. Djeli was born to my mate's cat Katie, and I saw him within a few hours of emerging into this world. Even so, he was the first to venture from out of the cupboard where he was born, he was the first to work out how to go up and down stairs, and he was the most inquisitive out of the litter. He proved to me that those who have a less fortunate start in life can still go on to live a good life and bring alot of happiness. I miss him terribly, and hope I can offer some love and happiness to another cat in their twilight years.
Sorry this is a long one......I got carried away!
Good on you djelibeybi :) I know I was eternally grateful to a lovely couple who fostered my 2 boys for a few months while I was touring Australia. I couldn't face putting them in a cattery for that long as they were real people cats and not a day would go by when they didn't spend at least an hour or 2 curled up asleep in your arms like little babies, I didn't want to find them new homes as they were like my children so I advertised for a foster home for them saying I would pay for all their expenses and I couldn't have found a better couple to leave them with. They sent photos of them every few weeks and let me know how they were getting on. The boys loved it there and I was contented that they were being looked after and loved as I would love them. There are such kind people out there. I know I couldn't have gone and enjoyed myself as I did if they hadn't offered to take them.
Good on you!
You could try Wizz Cats in Sheffield - or Cats Protection- there is a FeLV cat mentioned on the link page in my signature
djelibeybi 30-01-2008, 15:10 Good on you!
You could try Wizz Cats in Sheffield - or Cats Protection- there is a FeLV cat mentioned on the link page in my signature
Do you mean Spectre? I saw that advert a few days ago, and fell in love straight away - black and FIV+ - what a perfect little boy!
Unfortunately, I'm not currently in a position to take on a cat....not until I get my own place, but I'm sure there'll always be a cat out there who's regularly being overlooked and needs a forever home.
djelibeybi 01-02-2008, 17:32 It's fatal looking on adoption pages of rescue centres, isn't it? I've fallen in love with this cat, and really hope he's still available when I eventually get my own place. I can really identify with him, because I have a balance disorder too....
RSPCA Sheffield - Wonky (http://rspcasheffield.homeip.net/cgi-bin/makepage.py?menu=animalscode.dat&targetpage=animals/sheffield//Cat/4.dat)
I'm really enjoying fostering - I thought it would be hard saying goodbye to a cat you've grown attached to, but really it's great to see them settling into their new homes and to know you've helped them to get a second chance.
It's fatal looking on adoption pages of rescue centres, isn't it? I've fallen in love with this cat, and really hope he's still available when I eventually get my own place. I can really identify with him, because I have a balance disorder too....
RSPCA Sheffield - Wonky (http://rspcasheffield.homeip.net/cgi-bin/makepage.py?menu=animalscode.dat&targetpage=animals/sheffield//Cat/4.dat)
Awww- Wonky looks lovely! I don't think I'd have any problems offering him a home either (if I didn't already have 3 cats, a great big dog and whatever foster kittens around the place).
djelibeybi 02-02-2008, 00:33 Awww- Wonky looks lovely! I don't think I'd have any problems offering him a home either (if I didn't already have 3 cats, a great big dog and whatever foster kittens around the place).
Isn't he adorable? I have a feeling he's been up for adoption for a number of months now, so he may be getting overlooked, and £50 is really good for an adoption fee. I could very easily give him a forever home.
aww Wonky is fab. I'd fall for him in an instant but he'd never fit in here- too many mental mogs already tearing around the house and a daft dobe with a memory span of 3 seconds so she'd never remember he's a part of the fambly. I get the feeling Wonky needs somewhere a little more sensible and sedate. Maybe now you've flagged him up on the forum he might get spotted? Fingers crossed.
(My latest foster is Elvis -an 8-yr old handsome tabby boy and he's a sweetie too).
djelibeybi 03-02-2008, 17:28 aww Wonky is fab. I'd fall for him in an instant but he'd never fit in here- too many mental mogs already tearing around the house and a daft dobe with a memory span of 3 seconds so she'd never remember he's a part of the fambly. I get the feeling Wonky needs somewhere a little more sensible and sedate. Maybe now you've flagged him up on the forum he might get spotted? Fingers crossed.
(My latest foster is Elvis -an 8-yr old handsome tabby boy and he's a sweetie too).
I love living in a madhouse with wacky dogs and cats....there's never a dull moment!
Being selfish about Wonky, I hope he's still available when I'm in a position residentially and financially to take on a cat, but realistically, I'd be glad if through my actions here, he got his loving forever home. There'll always be a cat out there needing my help, and will subsequently steal my heart......little furry buggers!
That's true- the way things are these days there's no shortage of animals needing help.
I'll say- Ive only been fostering since November and already had 3 cats here, so as one finds it's new home, there'll always be another looking for one, sad, but true.
djelibeybi 03-02-2008, 18:30 Unfortunately, due to being diagnosed with depression, I really don't think I could do short term fostering. It'd break my heart to have to say goodbye.
I really need the consistent companionship, but am rightly concerned about the costs involved. My theory was to help out a rescue centre with a non-destruction policy by providing a home environment for a cat with special requirements.
Before anyone voices concerns over someone diagnosed with depression taking on the responsibility of a dependent animal (I know I'd have concerns if the roles were reversed), my depression always takes the form of me neglecting myself, but I'm physically incapable of ignoring the needs of others. Nothing fills my heart more than the love (even aloofness) and companionship of a cat.
I wouldn't have the slightest worry about your ability to care with depressions djelibeybi- I know from experience that on days when you can't face getting out of bed furry family members are a reason to get up, a reason to go out of the house, a reason to do all sorts of things.
On top of that cats are much better at being lazy than humans so they love nothing more than to be able to snuggle their human, love them up and purr at them for hours on end. Meeting their needs is so easy when you stop trying to meet human work targets and focus just on the animal.
djelibeybi 04-02-2008, 02:18 I wouldn't have the slightest worry about your ability to care with depressions djelibeybi- I know from experience that on days when you can't face getting out of bed furry family members are a reason to get up, a reason to go out of the house, a reason to do all sorts of things.
On top of that cats are much better at being lazy than humans so they love nothing more than to be able to snuggle their human, love them up and purr at them for hours on end. Meeting their needs is so easy when you stop trying to meet human work targets and focus just on the animal.
Even in my lowest moments, it's always been the antics of an animal which has made me smile, and invariably, it's been a cat. I'm a firm believer that one of the best therapies for depression to set yourself, is to find just one thing a day to smile at. For me, a furry therapist would be ideal.
djelibeybi 08-02-2008, 23:04 Periodically I browse the adoption pages of many rescue centres across the country, just to admire all the cats available, and to fall in love with some.
Remember Wonky who I mentioned earlier in the thread? I just noticed he's now reserved on their website!
My instant reaction was that I was so chuffed for Wonky, that someone's clearly shown a serious interest in him. Then I thought about it, and wondered why I wasn't upset when he'd touched my heart as much as he has. I decided it must be because I know he's got an opportunity of a loving home right now, whereas I don't know how long it's going to be before I have a place of my own.
Aren't a daft softie? :roll:
Birth-Peace 09-02-2008, 12:14 I have just applied to do fostering with the RSPCA. You fill out a form on their website and they call you within two days for a home check etc. My home check is on Sunday?
My instant reaction was that I was so chuffed for Wonky, that someone's clearly shown a serious interest in him. Then I thought about it, and wondered why I wasn't upset when he'd touched my heart as much as he has. I decided it must be because I know he's got an opportunity of a loving home right now, whereas I don't know how long it's going to be before I have a place of my own.
This is the reaction that's so important for fostering or working at a rescue centre. The only other way I can describe it is holding off falling in love just for long enough for others to fall in love with them and take them home.
You have to take pleasure in playing your part in looking after them long enough for them to find a loving forever home.
This is harder for me with adult cats than it is with kittens because although kittens are gorgeous, they don't have their full pussynality yet and I really go for pussynality. I can happily let little kittens go and there will always be willing homes for them, whereas I'm likely to need to keep adults for a bit longer and that raises the odds that I'm going to really fall in love before they get a home (I've just given in and adopted a fostered one!).
djelibeybi 24-02-2008, 16:49 I periodically check the adoption pages on rescue centre websites, and WONKY'S GONE!
I'm a little sad, but really thrilled cos that means someone's trying to provide him with a loving home.
Hopefully many more kitties will be given the chance to find loving forever homes......
aww glad to hear Wonky has found a home - there'll always be others like him though - Cats Protection has just got to adult (6 year old )cats, one (Poppy) has only one eye and is FiV so they need rehoming together to someone who does not have cats already and they have to be indoor cats - they're not in Sheffield, I should add. They are lovely and were well loved in their previous home. Sadly, their owner has had to go into residential care so they're up for adoption. I'm keeping fingers and toes crossed that someone falls for them soon. Meantime, I've got 2 other CP cats with me at the moment Amy and Del Boy - young sister and brother tabbies they're keeping me on my toes and like to chat to me.
djelibeybi 26-02-2008, 15:31 aww glad to hear Wonky has found a home - there'll always be others like him though - Sheffield Hallam Cats Protection has just got to adult (6 year old )cats, one (Poppy) has only one eye and is FiV so they need rehoming together to someone who does not have cats already and they have to be indoor cats. They are lovely and were well loved in their previous home. Sadly, their owner has had to go into residential care so they're up for adoption. I'm keeping fingers and toes crossed that someone falls for them soon. Meantime, I've got 2 other CP cats with me at the moment Amy and Del Boy - young sister and brother tabbies they're keeping me on my toes and like to chat to me.
As soon as I saw Amy and Del Boy I fell in love with them. I adore tabbies cos they're real characters and tend to be very talkative.
I've always been wary of torties cos they really are an acquired taste....real cats with attitude! I don't dislike them or anything, I just think they're misunderstood and more aloof than other types. I really feel for Poppy and Fluffy, and seeing all these cats who would be perfect for me.......breaks my heart I can't offer them a loving forever home right now.......
I've been advised by Sheffield Homes that there's a blanket ruling that if you're in one of their flats, you're not allowed pets. I'm hoping I may be offered a place of my own as a medical priority. If not, I've been warned I'll have to wait years for my own place. In the meantime, my depression's getting progressively worse........
As soon as I saw Amy and Del Boy I fell in love with them. I adore tabbies cos they're real characters and tend to be very talkative.
I've always been wary of torties cos they really are an acquired taste....real cats with attitude! I don't dislike them or anything, I just think they're misunderstood and more aloof than other types. I really feel for Poppy and Fluffy, and seeing all these cats who would be perfect for me.......breaks my heart I can't offer them a loving forever home right now.......
I've been advised by Sheffield Homes that there's a blanket ruling that if you're in one of their flats, you're not allowed pets. I'm hoping I may be offered a place of my own as a medical priority. If not, I've been warned I'll have to wait years for my own place. In the meantime, my depression's getting progressively worse........
I'm sorry to hear that djelibeybi - keep posting here on the forum amongst friends - in my view, anything 'pets' is my antidote to depression. You sound as if you could do with regular exposure to at least one cat, even if you can't own one in your current home. Cuddling a cat has to be one of the most therapeutic things I know of. Take care xK
djelibeybi 12-03-2008, 18:38 Thanks, Katkin xxx
Due to my worsening depression, I'm now under the care of a Mental Health Occupational Therapist who feels the first step in my recovery is to get my own place. She'll be supporting me as my application for medical priority with Sheffield Homes goes through.
What's unfortunate is that apparently if you are awarded medical priority, you have little say in where you're placed as long as it's away from your current problems. In my case, I require a zero stress environment in order to recover (according to my Audiovestibular Consultant), but personally I don't see how that could ever be possible as something will always stress you out....
I'm craving a cat more and more now, and as there's a possibility I may have to wait years before the opportunity presents itself to become a foster carer / owner, I'm considering whether my current physical and mental health will allow me to offer my services to Cats Protection to help socialise their charges. One foster carer lives not far from me and when our cats died, I took round some bits and pieces and a couple of cat baskets.
She took me into her runs in the garden, and I could quite easily have walked off with atleast 3 of the kittens and one of the cats, right there and then!
As you say, Katkin, maybe if I can't have one living with me at this time, if my health allows me to, maybe I can help socialise cats with Cats Protection for rehoming, and the pay off would be I would be de-stressing at the same time. I think the hardest bit would be leaving them there each time......
Moonbird 12-03-2008, 18:59 I really do feel for you djelibeybi I would feel so sad if I couldn't have pets, but all is not lost there is lots that you can still do to help with animals.
How about helping at a shelter? many hands make light work and even though you cannot take the animals home staff don't always have lots of time for cuddles/play etc, you could make a massive difference to lots more animals each week than you could ever fit into your home.
Also how about dog walking for a rescue? that makes so much difference the fresh air and exercise helps with depression, and will give you something to look forward to and get up in the morning for.
I know how hard it is but don't think so much about what you can't offer, try and focus on all that you do have to offer... I think that is a whole lot of time and love, and that is all that these animals need to help them through the day.
You can make a massive difference if you let yourself, just go for it djelibeybi start tomorrow :)
That sounds a lovely idea - perhaps you could contact CP to volunteer your services. There are 2 branches in Sheffield, the hallam one and the north sheffield branch. Not only that, I know of at least 3 other rescue agencies in Sheffield that rely on volunteers for a whole range of things and even if you're not up to the job of emptying litter trays or dishing out food, all cats benefit from physical contact. My friend used to go to the Sheffield Cat Shelter often to spend time with the cats there. Here's the ones I'm aware of:
Sheffield Hallam CP http://www.catsprotectionshop.com/
North Sheffield CP Tel: 0114 245 6371
Email: cpl@cats.org.uk
Web site: www.cats.org.uk
National CP Helpline: 08702 099 099
Sheffield CATS http://www.sheffieldcats.org.uk/
Sheffield Cat Shelter http://www.thesheffieldcatsshelter.org/
WizzCats http://wizz-catz.co.uk/
Royston Animal Welfare http://www.penistone-cat.co.uk/
I hope your housing situation gets sorted out quickly and you are relocated somewhere you want to be and where you can adopt a feline friend. Best wishes xK
Moonbird 12-03-2008, 19:05 Thank you Katkin, and I happen to know that Jackie at CATS is absolutely desperate for help with her sanctuary, someone with time to spare could make a massive difference there :)
djelibeybi 12-03-2008, 19:51 Moonbird & Katkin
Many thanks for your words of support and suggestions.
Unfortunately due to physical limitations caused by a balance disorder, I'm severely restricted as to what I could do to assist. I also suffer from chronic fatigue (both mental and physical) due to my balance disorder, so I'm even restricted as to social activities, which is why I mentioned assisting with socialising cats.
My parents own a lovely dog (I live with them at this time) and even walking her exhausts me so that it takes me 2 whole days to recover, so I leave that to my dad.
When I delivered those items to the lady foster carer from Hallam Cats Protection, she said a young lass from down the road came in to help her and to socialise the kittens, so it just crossed my mind that I may be able to help too.....as it would, for me, be a two way process.
Moonbird & Katkin
Many thanks for your words of support and suggestions.
Unfortunately due to physical limitations caused by a balance disorder, I'm severely restricted as to what I could do to assist. I also suffer from chronic fatigue (both mental and physical) due to my balance disorder, so I'm even restricted as to social activities, which is why I mentioned assisting with socialising cats.
My parents own a lovely dog (I live with them at this time) and even walking her exhausts me so that it takes me 2 whole days to recover, so I leave that to my dad.
When I delivered those items to the lady foster carer from Hallam Cats Protection, she said a young lass from down the road came in to help her and to socialise the kittens, so it just crossed my mind that I may be able to help too.....as it would, for me, be a two way process.
I'm sure you could - you dont need to be able to get down and clean up, you could offer to visit the cats and just cuddle them and speak softly to them - it's a scary and confusing time for a cat in rescue and having someone who just wants to spend time with them can be a great help.
djelibeybi 12-03-2008, 20:27 Katkin
I'm going to have a serious think about it, because I have to be careful when committing myself to stuff that I don't over-stretch myself, what with coping with the illnesses, all the appointments I have to attend etc.
It's something I thought quite a bit about after visiting the foster carer's set up, but at that time I was still fighting the DWP to get my Incapacity Benefit reinstated, and money was extremely tight (for petrol etc).
I'm saddened to see Fluffy and Poppy have had no takers. How're you getting on with the rambunctious tabbies?
Moonbird 12-03-2008, 21:14 Moonbird & Katkin
Many thanks for your words of support and suggestions.
Unfortunately due to physical limitations caused by a balance disorder, I'm severely restricted as to what I could do to assist. I also suffer from chronic fatigue (both mental and physical) due to my balance disorder, so I'm even restricted as to social activities, which is why I mentioned assisting with socialising cats.
My parents own a lovely dog (I live with them at this time) and even walking her exhausts me so that it takes me 2 whole days to recover, so I leave that to my dad.
When I delivered those items to the lady foster carer from Hallam Cats Protection, she said a young lass from down the road came in to help her and to socialise the kittens, so it just crossed my mind that I may be able to help too.....as it would, for me, be a two way process.
I'm really sorry to hear that djelibeybi, how awful for you :sad: I'm sure that you could do the socialising though as you said, you could easily sit down for that... just sit and talk to them, there is often loads of stuff that you can do from home or on the pc in your own time, but I appreciate that you want to help "hands on" I feel sure that you will find something to suit you, and when you get your own place there will be no holding you back :)
djelibeybi 26-03-2008, 17:38 This afternoon I rang Kay at Sheffield Hallam Cats Protection, and offered my services.
The lady foster carer on Charnock is Marion and she's due to throw herself in the deep end with kitten season very soon, so Kay's going to give her my number so she can contact me.
I've offered my services to help socialise the cats and kittens prior to homing, and even offered to help with those cats traumatised and suffering with behaviourial problems. I'm no expert, I just adore cats, and for some reason they adore me too. I'm also very patient with them and respect their aloofness!
If I have enough petrol in my car, I've also said I'll help drive Marion to the vets at short notice if needs be. I might even be able to help with light duties such as cleaning litter trays if I'm really careful.
Anyway, we'll see what happens, but I have warned Kay that no matter how grateful she may be for my contributions, I know I'll be getting alot more back from the cats themselves......little furry buggers! :hihi:
I'm hoping this will give me an incentive to leave my home more, increase my interaction with humans (I've got really bad at isolating myself due to my illnesses), improve my sense of self-worth and value, and improve my depressive mood.
Who knows, I may even be able to implement my love of photography and practicing using my new digital SLR camera!
aww that's brilliant news- I've met Marion and know she could do with some help- kittens need a lot of attention to get them used to people, so anything you can do in that department will, I'm sure be really appreciated. It'll also help you - it'll get you out of the house and getting the best kind of cure for the blues- nothing to beat stroking a feline. Good luck!
djelibeybi 26-03-2008, 19:39 aww that's brilliant news- I've met Marion and know she could do with some help- kittens need a lot of attention to get them used to people, so anything you can do in that department will, I'm sure be really appreciated. It'll also help you - it'll get you out of the house and getting the best kind of cure for the blues- nothing to beat stroking a feline. Good luck!
Thanks, Katkin
Marion does love her kittens, doesn't she?
I'm really looking forward to it, but will have to be extremely careful I don't push myself too hard, cos the backlash with my fatigue can be horrendous and affect me for days.
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