I'm wondering what peoples attitudes are to tax dodging?

I see lots of moaning and growning about the unemployed, why they can afford luxuries, how much it cost the tax payer etc, but no one complaining about people who cheat the exchequer ie all the other tax payers.

Anyways, I have found someone who has been cheating for a very long time and am wondering what to do, do I dob them in, or turn a blind eye.

well i duno but if i could get away with it i would.
i try to live my own life and not worry about others let them get on with it i say
they will get caught sooner or later i guess.

Dob them in. All us honest people have to pay more tax to make up for these tax dodgers....but then again if all these people did start paying their tax the government wouldn't reduce taxes.

I'm wondering what peoples attitudes are to tax dodging?

I see lots of moaning and growning about the unemployed, why they can afford luxuries, how much it cost the tax payer etc, but no one complaining about people who cheat the exchequer ie all the other tax payers.

Anyways, I have found someone who has been cheating for a very long time and am wondering what to do, do I dob them in, or turn a blind eye.

Are you now living in England or still observing from the USA ?

I'm more concerned about soap-dodgers, me.

well i duno but if i could get away with it i would.
i try to live my own life and not worry about others let them get on with it i say
they will get caught sooner or later i guess.

I thought I'd keep the OP to the point and not state my own feelings but I do agree with you on the one hand.

For instance I think situations differ, if the guy is just your average working class bloke with a few fiddle jobs on the side I don't think I'd dob him in even if I didn't like him, its sort of an 'us and them' scenario where you feel good luck to anyone who can get one over on the system.

But what if its someone who's running a business and it amounts to more than a few quid, say a hundred grand or so, I think I feel different about that guy, maybe the poll is too simple and I should have given a couple of more complex alternatives.

The case is true, I haven't done anything yet and the truth is I will take account of what people post here as I'm not a UK tax payer any more living in the USA I don't feel I have the same rights any more.

Are you now living in England or still observing from the USA ?

I'm not the subject matter, no harassment and stick to the OP please.

Isnt selling on Ebay a tax Dodge :hihi:

I thought I'd keep the OP to the point and not state my own feelings but I do agree with you on the one hand.

For instance I think situations differ, if the guy is just your average working class bloke with a few fiddle jobs on the side I don't think I'd dob him in even if I didn't like him, its sort of an 'us and them' scenario where you feel good luck to anyone who can get one over on the system.

But what if its someone who's running a business and it amounts to more than a few quid, say a hundred grand or so, I think I feel different about that guy, maybe the poll is too simple and I should have given a couple of more complex alternatives.

The case is true, I haven't done anything yet and the truth is I will take account of what people post here as I'm not a UK tax payer any more living in the USA I don't feel I have the same rights any more.

yea i know wat you mean
earning a very lot then thats crap and he should pay dob him then :)
and put more choices on the poll too :)

yea i know wat you mean
earning a very lot then thats crap and he should pay dob him then :)
and put more choices on the poll too :)

How do I do that?

Isnt selling on Ebay a tax Dodge :hihi:

No, there are rules now governing how much you can earn on ebay before tax.

I actuly don't mind paying my tax's, but only since living in the US and seeing that we get so much more for our money, i.e healthcare,, I know the NHS is far from perfect but it has to be run on a budget just like we run our lives on a budget, I had an expencive trip to the hospital in America and it cost me over £2000 because my insurance was hopless! in UK it would have cost nothing, walk it, get treated and walk out.

other things like police and street lights lit at night, with out tax's we really would be sqrewed, the list is endless.

I say turn them in! if everyone did pay even tax's and the people claiming benefits when not looking for work or working too got kicked off the system there would be tons more cash laying around and the goverment would have to lower tax's or use it to improve living standards in the UK, they cant just bank money, they have to answer to certain public commeties on spending and it would not be stood for it they took more than they need,, they could even give our boys in iraq all the spare cash for better equipment to ensure they all make it home!

Turn them in!

No, there are rules now governing how much you can earn on ebay before tax.

Any idea how much

How do I do that?

lol dob him in or put more on the poll ?

dunno :)

I thought I'd keep the OP to the point and not state my own feelings but I do agree with you on the one hand.

For instance I think situations differ, if the guy is just your average working class bloke with a few fiddle jobs on the side I don't think I'd dob him in even if I didn't like him, its sort of an 'us and them' scenario where you feel good luck to anyone who can get one over on the system.

But what if its someone who's running a business and it amounts to more than a few quid, say a hundred grand or so, I think I feel different about that guy, maybe the poll is too simple and I should have given a couple of more complex alternatives.

The case is true, I haven't done anything yet and the truth is I will take account of what people post here as I'm not a UK tax payer any more living in the USA I don't feel I have the same rights any more.

I agree with you. Fat Cats on 100 grand plus get enough sweeteners as it is, AND they can afford good accountants who are literally worth their weight in gold to them! Whereas the ordinary man in the street just ends up getting done over all the time for his toil.

I'd say fif its a blatent tax dodge for a large sum of money - say the equilivant to an average persons yearly income, then I'd more than likely report them. But if its just some on the side fiddle jobs amounting to a few hundred quid to help pay for xmas / little luxuries like meals out etc then I dont see the harm.

I must point out though, that through my work, if I find out that someone evading tax - ie not declaring everything to the tax man, then I HAVE to report it, otherwise I could loose my job!

Any idea how much

If memory serves correctly 8 grand, as a figure, springs to mind, the last time I heard anything on this.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/business/Big-business-frauds-on-rise.3110715.jp

CRIME does pay – particularly if you are a business fraudster -
business in Yorkshire and the North East reported 23 cases of fraud, worth a total of £13 million for first half of 2007.

Wolf, from the article I was very interested in the comments :

"Frauds against businesses typically involve employees or directors abusing a position of trust, often in conjunction with an outsider.

And the larger the sum stolen, the less likely the fraudster is to be prosecuted as, in most cases, victims primarily focus on recovering the assets, preventing future frauds and minimising publicity."

The case is true, I haven't done anything yet and the truth is I will take account of what people post here as I'm not a UK tax payer any more living in the USA I don't feel I have the same rights any more.

Even if you are nowhere near a situation, if you find something out then you have as much right to bring it to the attention of the appropriate people as anyone. Illegal activities and awareness of illegal activities is not restricted to the country of origin.

I actuly don't mind paying my tax's, but only since living in the US and seeing that we get so much more for our money, i.e healthcare,, I know the NHS is far from perfect but it has to be run on a budget just like we run our lives on a budget, I had an expencive trip to the hospital in America and it cost me over £2000 because my insurance was hopless! in UK it would have cost nothing, walk it, get treated and walk out.

other things like police and street lights lit at night, with out tax's we really would be sqrewed, the list is endless.

I say turn them in! if everyone did pay even tax's and the people claiming benefits when not looking for work or working too got kicked off the system there would be tons more cash laying around and the goverment would have to lower tax's or use it to improve living standards in the UK, they cant just bank money, they have to answer to certain public commeties on spending and it would not be stood for it they took more than they need,, they could even give our boys in iraq all the spare cash for better equipment to ensure they all make it home!

Turn them in!

Good post, and I probably think that because I agree with you.

I pay 50% tax here on my personal income, then I have to pay for health insurance and a whole lot more (no dole or sick pay here), the system in england is far more efficient and equitable.

Wolfy,are you still liviing on the west coast of the States & writing books ?

I wish I was !!!! What's the weather like out there....or perhaps should we stick to the subject matter.

I wish I was !!!! What's the weather like out there....or perhaps should we stick to the subject matter.


Read his previous posts;)

I'd say fif its a blatent tax dodge for a large sum of money - say the equilivant to an average persons yearly income, then I'd more than likely report them. But if its just some on the side fiddle jobs amounting to a few hundred quid to help pay for xmas / little luxuries like meals out etc then I dont see the harm.

It's the former, really blatant, the guy is filing fraudulent company reports and claiming no income at all.

Drop 'em in it. It'll help to keep everyone else's tax bill down.

Even if you are nowhere near a situation, if you find something out then you have as much right to bring it to the attention of the appropriate people as anyone. Illegal activities and awareness of illegal activities is not restricted to the country of origin.


Yes I feel I have to agree with you here chavs, in a previous job I had no choice but to report any such activity to the proper authorities or I myself was guilty of a criminal act.

I wonder if there are any penalties for not alerting the authorities to tax evasion when there are "reasonable grounds for suspicion". I know that for money laundering offences you can get up to 5 years in prison, and an unlimited fine for failure to report.

Can tax evasion be classed as money laundering? According to wikipedia it is : "In the past, the term "money laundering" was applied only to financial transactions related to organized crime. Today its definition is often expanded by government regulators (such as the United States Office of the Comptroller of the Currency) to encompass any financial transaction which generates an asset or a value as the result of an illegal act, which may involve actions such as tax evasion or false accounting. As a result, the illegal activity of money laundering is now recognized as potentially practiced by individuals, small and large businesses, corrupt officials, members of organized crime (such as drug dealers or the Mafia) or of cults, and even corrupt states, through a complex network of shell companies and trusts based in offshore tax havens."

OOH, never thought about it that way but I think you're right, what's happening here could very well be classed as money laundering, I'm going to have to take advice on this one.

I dont know anything about the US or the laws in general but within financial institutions the legal obligation is on you to report your suspisions to a MLRO (money laundering reporting officer), they then take the burden away from you and any chance of you being convicted for not reporting it. They then go through to SOCA. You dont have this option so presumably the burden is wholly on you to report this as your the one aware. Check the website out (very informative!!)

http://www.soca.gov.uk/financialIntel/suspectActivity.html

Wolf, please also not that there is an offense for tipping off. In order to prevent individuals from warning those about whom they
have made an report on, the money laundering legislation also criminalises ‘tipping off’. Where a person knows or suspects that an report has been made to the law enforcement authorities, it is an offence for him to make any disclosure which is likely to prejudice any investigation which might be conducted following the making of the report. The most obvious example of a disclosure likely to prejudice an investigation is letting an
individual know that the authorities are interested in him so that he has time to destroy evidence.

I dont suppose I need to tell you to be careful with your postings!!!

The SOCA website talks about Money Laundering Regulations 2003. Please note that these are superseeded by the Money Laundering Regulations 2007!!! These came into effect/law from 15th December 2007.


Looks like the gov.website needs updating, lol.

I'm wondering what peoples attitudes are to tax dodging?

I see lots of moaning and growning about the unemployed, why they can afford luxuries, how much it cost the tax payer etc, but no one complaining about people who cheat the exchequer ie all the other tax payers.

Anyways, I have found someone who has been cheating for a very long time and am wondering what to do, do I dob them in, or turn a blind eye.

Are you sure that this person is actually breaking the law?

Tax avoidance is a massive industry and there are now lots of lawyers who help the rich to pay as little tax as possible. There are all kinds of tricks that can be done.

It may be that this bloke is doing something which most ordinary people would regard as a scam, but which according to some obscure tax loophole is actually perfectly legal.

:(

Are you sure that this person is actually breaking the law?

Tax avoidance is a massive industry and there are now lots of lawyers who help the rich to pay as little tax as possible. There are all kinds of tricks that can be done.

It may be that this bloke is doing something which most ordinary people would regard as a scam, but which according to some obscure tax loophole is actually perfectly legal.

:(

I'm quite sure, I hired an investigator to take a look at him and his businesses because I found he was using fictitious addresses as registered addresses for companies. Silly really, he obviously registered these addresses to obfuscate anyone finding him, I only wanted to have a chat about something, but found it impossible to get hold of him, so decided to find him.

The search found him of course, his official filings and public records show earnings not compatible with the ZERO earnings reported from his company.

Originally I was merely looking for a phone number so I could make sure I was communicating with the real person and give him some advice, but once you start digging its amazing what pops up.

............and chavs, I've taken note and shall conduct myself accordingly.

Thanks.

Is this even open to debate? If you are aware of a criminal act, you have both a legal and a moral duty to report it.

Is this even open to debate? If you are aware of a criminal act, you have both a legal and a moral duty to report it.

But what about unintended impact, consequential impact on innocent parties that could be very negative, how do you weigh that question.

But what about unintended impact, consequential impact on innocent parties that could be very negative, how do you weigh that question.

You don't. You have a legal and moral duty to report any criminal acts.

Consequential impact is not your fault, it's his.

You don't. You have a legal and moral duty to report any criminal acts.

Consequential impact is not your fault, it's his.


Yes I agree, but its still not so easy on my conscience.

Tough call that can only be made by the individual in a particular case.

I think if someone was working full-time and not paying tax on that income, I probably would say something. However what about all those folks doing a few hours here and there as a second job?

I think there comes a point where the amount being earnt is more that just 'pocket money', at that point if not paying tax then maybe something should be said.

Tough call that can only be made by the individual in a particular case.

I think if someone was working full-time and not paying tax on that income, I probably would say something. However what about all those folks doing a few hours here and there as a second job?

I think there comes a point where the amount being earnt is more that just 'pocket money', at that point if not paying tax then maybe something should be said.

As I've posted earlier, its a full blown business not just someone 'fiddling' on the side.

As I've posted earlier, its a full blown business not just someone 'fiddling' on the side.


I'm glad I'm not in your situation - I think I'd probably find it difficult to report someone. But leaving the legalities aside briefly - there are consequences to every action and this fellow is clearly intelligent enough to know that. Given that, the consequences of his actions in terms of committing what appears to be a significant fraud were known to him - he would benefit, for a certain amount of risk of being caught out.

Unfortunately, the risk has caught up with him.

Back to the legalities...

From my own personal professional experience, if it IS something that can be labelled as Money Laundering then not reporting it can get very nasty indeed; whilst you may have qualms about reporting this fellow - the same rule of actions and consequences arises. There may be dire consequences to you, your family, your own business, and I gather form another thread you run a charitable trust - all these things could be threatened if it were to come out that you KNEW something was amiss and didn't report it.

I think it's very honourable to care about this sort of thing, but in your position, where you too can potentially suffer consequences, I think I'd pick the phone up and suggest that someone takes a look.

Best of luck with your decision and it's outcome.

In that case, I'd be inclined to say something.

Wether you say something to the person involved before going to the authoritahs is something only you can decide ;)

Hi wolfstalin, Im just wondering what state you live in? are your tax laws enforced by the federal govt via the IRS or by the state? Thanks

Thanks guys I appreciate your comments.

Although there is some risk for me here I don't think its anything I can't handle with a few well placed phone calls, I'm not without connections and a bit of capitol always helps.

I'm more interested in the consequential fall out for 'others' who are unaware that the person they have put their trust in has done this.

Do you think that if its made clear to this guy he should be given a chance the 'change his ways'.

If it's Money Laundering and you suggest he changes his ways, you're in even deeper crap (in teh UK at least) than for not reporting him. :(

I'm afraid that it would be viewed as warning him - again, it depends whether he gets caught and then whether he 'sings', but it is very worth consiering.

As for his other contacts / customers - are you in a position to gently warn them at all?

Hi wolfstalin, Im just wondering what state you live in? are your tax laws enforced by the federal govt via the IRS or by the state? Thanks

Its not here, its a Sheffield case.

But to answer you all states have their own tax as well as federal tax as far as I'm aware and its no picnic, tax here is massive.

As for his other contacts / customers - are you in a position to gently warn them at all?

Not really, first it would be difficult as they are many and disparate, plus that would be an offense here in that its termed 'tortuous interference in international trade'.

Thanks for reply wolfstalin, I thought he may have been one of those 16th amendment conspiracy theory guys. I agree with JoeP if its serious stuff and you aren't going to report him, maybe you should consider taking some legal advice. If he is as dodgy as his book keeping and gets caught he may try and implicate you.

Not really, first it would be difficult as they are many and disparate, plus that would be an offense here in that its termed 'tortuous interference in international trade'.

Aaah.....fair enough. Hadn't thought of that side of things. These guys who make the laws don't make life easy to do the right thing by people.


Do you think that if its made clear to this guy he should be given a chance the 'change his ways'.

From what you've said this isn't someone who's doing a bit of 'off balance sheet trading' to pay for a few weeks in the sun or a second hand Jag. If you're concerned about whether he can redeem himself, take a look at his history - how long has this gone on for? What are his general intersts / lifestyle like? What does your 'gut' tell you? Apart from greed, are there any 'higher motives' for what he's doing?

Most people get a feel for whether someone is redeemable or not; you just have to go with the guts and your heart on that side of things, balanced against the brain for the law.

I think you have to report if its a matter of large scale. The exchequer must be deprived of tens if not hundreds of millions by people not paying their tax. For people earning over £100,000 there really is no excuse.

Aaah.....fair enough. Hadn't thought of that side of things. These guys who make the laws don't make life easy to do the right thing by people.

Indeed they don't Joe.

"Thanks for reply wolfstalin, I thought he may have been one of those 16th amendment conspiracy theory guys. I agree with JoeP if its serious stuff and you aren't going to report him, maybe you should consider taking some legal advice. If he is as dodgy as his book keeping and gets caught he may try and implicate you."

Nah, if only, I could just go out and shoot him if that was the case, LOL, arh if only it was that simple.

I've not discussed it with my council yet but will ask him what he thinks at the weekend. I'm supposed to be in Vegas on a biz trip but decided to send someone ells and take a well earned break, so I don't want to blow my cover or everyone and his horse realise I'm hold up at home and will try to get hold of me.

I honestly can't believe that 'shopping' tax dodgers would result in any government lowering tax rates. Sadly we live in a greed culture and the greediest of all are the companies paying low wages and making massive profits. But then...I'm just an old cynic.

Aaah.....fair enough. Hadn't thought of that side of things. These guys who make the laws don't make life easy to do the right thing by people.

From what you've said this isn't someone who's doing a bit of 'off balance sheet trading' to pay for a few weeks in the sun or a second hand Jag. If you're concerned about whether he can redeem himself, take a look at his history - how long has this gone on for? What are his general intersts / lifestyle like? What does your 'gut' tell you? Apart from greed, are there any 'higher motives' for what he's doing?

Most people get a feel for whether someone is redeemable or not; you just have to go with the guts and your heart on that side of things, balanced against the brain for the law.

I've never once spoken to the guy but from what I can see he's never paid tax at all. I understand how difficult it can be to start a biz and have the burden of tax but once a company has been established its time to pay the piper.

Who knows, maybe he will become aware of my dilemma and contact me before its too late to both explain his actions and set out the course to remedy them.


............and sanman, long time no see, how's the BPC, haven't forgotten, still on the sidelines waiting to see if it all works out for you as well, it seems we have similar dilemmas, LOL!!!

To be honest, I am surprised that 13 people have voted not to report your findings. If this does fall under Money Laundering (and I would say it does) then these 13 people who wouldnt report it are all liable for very hefty fines/prison sentences. You are obliged BY LAW to report your suspicions.

We arent talking small fiddle jobs here to make ends meet. It appears to be on a much larger scale.

The obligations in the UK to report suspicions of money laundering extend to all crimes. In consequence, as well as seeking to launder funds in his own name (or under a pseudonym), the launderer might well seek to set up corporate structures and fronts for this purpose. He may also resort to more complex structures, sometimes involving trusts (both onshore and offshore), in all cases seeking to present an appearance of legitimate commercial or financial enterprise.

Companies, partnerships and sole trader businesses can be used as a cover for money laundering. No business, however respectable or closely regulated, is immune from being drawn into laundering the proceeds of crime or establishing vehicles or into arrangements to facilitate this.

I've never once spoken to the guy but from what I can see he's never paid tax at all. I understand how difficult it can be to start a biz and have the burden of tax but once a company has been established its time to pay the piper.

Who knows, maybe he will become aware of my dilemma and contact me before its too late to both explain his actions and set out the course to remedy them.


Absolutely - some years ago I got caught short with tax owed due to bad planning on my part, and it's no excuses. You owes it, you pays it.

Of course, he may be the worst business man in the world and has never made a penny from his businesses, but lives off a private income.... ;)

The poll should have had more options. If i knew my best mate was tax dodging or a relative then i would obviously keep quiet as most of us would do. Fiddle jobs are really just someone making a little extra and good luck to them getting a few extra pennies thru hardwork.

However the people that get my goat are the fatcats who tax dodge thousands and there was a case of a taxi driver in sheffield who had alot of money in his bank and was claiming dole. thats bang out of order.

Yeah, as a thread and a meaningful pole I should have expanded the options, sorry wasn't thinking, I guess I was selfish, in that I just needed to get a grounding as to what to do in this situation and didn't think of the greater picture, maybe we should have a general thread on this topic.

................and no Joe, I don't think he's the worst biz guy around, quite the contrary, he's been very clever creating many fictitious addresses for his registrations, over 70 of them.

What he probably doesn't realise is that he's in contravention of US federal law on interstate trading and that could be serious, 15 years serious, its a homeland security issue here as well as tax of course.

in post 44 you say it is a sheffield case, in post 55 you say he's in contravention of federal law . which one is it ?:huh:.

in post 44 you say it is a sheffield case, in post 55 you say he's in contravention of federal law . which one is it ?:huh:.

If someone conducts biz in more than one country then they get to be responsible for what they do in all the places where they register businesses.

None of the businesses are registered in Sheffield (as far as I can see) but its all run from there by someone who lives there, that makes it a Sheffield case.

You should also understand that time has developmental issues, ie if you do research, look on websites etc and find more out, then the picture changes doesn't it as time moves on.

If someone conducts biz in more than one country then they get to be responsible for what they do in all the places where they register businesses.

None of the businesses are registered in Sheffield (as far as I can see) but its all run from there by someone who lives there, that makes it a Sheffield case.

You should also understand that time has developmental issues, ie if you do research, look on websites etc and find more out, then the picture changes doesn't it as time moves on.

so how does it become a federal affair.
its one or the other.
11 hours between posts not a lot can alter in that time.

Please go away jaiden, you're obviously not here to be constructive.

Please go away jaiden, you're obviously not here to be constructive.

so you cant answer the question , i am being constructive you have contradicted yourself i have given you a chance to clear it up and you have declined . reading this thread fully you seem to evade a few poster questions , however you stated it was a sheffield problem and then a federal problem , it looks to me you are taking people for fools .........i await your long drawn out reply .

I think you have to report if its a matter of large scale. The exchequer must be deprived of tens if not hundreds of millions by people not paying their tax. For people earning over £100,000 there really is no excuse.

The exchequer is not deprived of a penny! If the exchequer doesn't get enough from the crooks who won't pay, they come kicking our doors down and steal it from us because it's easier for them! I've just had to pay a fine of £10,000 because I moved house. It's such a ridiculous reason to take money from someone, and they've got the nerve to call it stamp duty, when it is theft by any other name. That's why these people must be reported, so that decent working people don't have to pick up the tab!

Dob Em In Ring 101 - Then You Can Sleep Easy Knowing That U Have Done The Right Thing.

...Although there is some risk for me here I don't think its anything I can't handle with a few well placed phone calls, I'm not without connections and a bit of capitol always helps. ...

If that's Capitol Hill, you have got some connections!

If that's Capitol Hill, you have got some connections!

I wasn't meaning that, but I do know a few people including the senior Dem Senator, and even have a Cal assemblyman as one of my junior partners, and of course make the appropriate political donations, all part of doing biz here for the great and the good.

The exchequer is not deprived of a penny! If the exchequer doesn't get enough from the crooks who won't pay, they come kicking our doors down and steal it from us because it's easier for them! I've just had to pay a fine of £10,000 because I moved house. It's such a ridiculous reason to take money from someone, and they've got the nerve to call it stamp duty, when it is theft by any other name. That's why these people must be reported, so that decent working people don't have to pick up the tab!
We seem to be agreeing vociferously:D There is no excuse for tax evasion on this scale. Report the tax dodger and seize his assets!

We seem to be agreeing vociferously:D There is no excuse for tax evasion on this scale. Report the tax dodger and seize his assets!

Quite so! :rant:

Ooh, just as I thought this one was over I took a look to tally the votes and saw six more, although the consensus appears that I should 'dob him in'.

On this note my solicitor will be in Sheffield next week covering a purchase for me, and I guess I'll have a chat with him about it.

Thanks everyone.

Dave F.