There are 20,000 police officers from all over the country marching in Westminster today because of the pay protest. All these are off duty and there are several hundred officers from South Yorkshire. My OH left Sheffield on a coach to London this morning at 5.30am.

I know that as part of the protest he contacted our local MP and received a very supportive letter from him last week.

The pictures on TV make impressive viewing.

Yeah!!! come on you lads n lasses in blue, you deserve more pay, just hope the government are listening this time.
Guns, knives, hoodies, drugs and God knows what else they have to put up with, same with NHS workers they need recognition for what they do.

:thumbsup: Lets hope the Government see sense and backdate the pay award like they have done in Scotland.

They are arguing over less than £200, it's pathetic considering the money they waste, they should be treated in same contemptuous way as they treat the public when they want such a petty argument with them.

Yeah!!! come on you lads n lasses in blue, you deserve more pay, just hope the government are listening this time.
Guns, knives, hoodies, drugs and God knows what else they have to put up with, same with NHS workers they need recognition for what they do.

Absolutely!

For what they have to put up with, coppers never get enough money and its way past time it was sorted out.
The bloody government are quick enough to put these men and women in harms way so its a bit crappy of them not to show the appreciation they deserve.

The pictures on TV make impressive viewing.

:huh:

What, if they had been steelworkers or Miners they no doubt would have been portrayed as a money grabbing mob, why is this protest a impressive sight.

:huh:

Darbees, for the job that the police do I think they deserve every penny, and more. They are only asking for the rise to be backdated, the same as officers in Scotland, and the same as the police staff they work with.

Its the government that need to deal with this, instead of cutting costs on the people that police the country.

Any one who thinks they dont deserve the money should go out and do the job, the violence, the firearms, the abuse, the list goes on... Yes they choose to do the job, but they do it to serve and protect the public.

The special constabulary is a great way of giving something back to the community, have a go at the job before deciding on the pay of the police.

For what they have to put up with, coppers never get enough money and its way past time it was sorted out.
The bloody government are quick enough to put these men and women in harms way so its a bit crappy of them not to show the appreciation they deserve.Is your signature pertinant to this?

The special constabulary is a great way of giving something back to the community, have a go at the job before deciding on the pay of the police.If it's such a difficult job why do they do it for nothing? Power?

Lets see more pay, less paperwork, and their hands untied from their backs.

well done boys and girls in blue.

the police are not protesting about the loss of 200 pounds, they are protesting about the back handed way the government has gone about taking the money from them.

i will not go into the intricacies of the matter it has been covered before in the news and on this forum.

they have my 100% support.

i applaud anyone who gives up time and puts themselves in the way of danger. doing it for nothing? as a special does?? they are extraordinary people who desreve respect if nothing else from every other member of the public.

darbees - you are always very opinionated when the conversation get round to policing. i suggest you give the specials a try and them put your opinion up front.

The boys (and girls) in blue go into this job knowing full well what the salary is and what the work entails. It is a good salary and they also enjoy very good sickness and pension benefits which the private sector can only dream of. I can turn your remark suggesting I join the specials around and suggest that Mr/Ms Average copper has a look to see what s/he has to do to earn that amount in private sector.

The boys (and girls) in blue go into this job knowing full well what the salary is and what the work entails. It is a good salary and they also enjoy very good sickness and pension benefits which the private sector can only dream of. I can turn your remark suggesting I join the specials around and suggest that Mr/Ms Average copper has a look to see what s/he has to do to earn that amount in private sector.

This part alone is priceless, as stated most people can only dream of such benefits.

But doesnt their walking into the job knowing what it entails a reason alone to give `em a pat on the back? If I knew the aggro Id have to put up with during a shift, I certainly wouldnt have the nads to take on the job.

:huh:

What, if they had been steelworkers or Miners they no doubt would have been portrayed as a money grabbing mob, why is this protest a impressive sight.

:huh:

Actually thats a bloody good point.
I wonder who will lead mounted charges at THEM and start fights with them, like they did to the miners and poll tax protesters....

But doesnt their walking into the job knowing what it entails a reason alone to give `em a pat on the back? If I knew the aggro Id have to put up with during a shift, I certainly wouldnt have the nads to take on the job.No, they walk ino the job knowing how much they will earn and the conditions, same as any other job. If people give them a pat on the back, that's a bonus.

I agree with Malky and Jabber-- who police's the police?
Get Arthur Scargill down to London to sort out the protestors!! haha

This part alone is priceless, as stated most people can only dream of such benefits.

And do 'most people' pay £324.92 towards their pension, as I did this and every other month? No.

I agree the pension scheme is a good one, but look at the sums we contribute towards it!

Do you not contribute that amount as it is a % of your salary?

they do a good job ,they are paid well , if they feel hard done by resign.
who's policeing the police?.
just for interst does anyone know which job is the most dangerous where being assaulted is a problem , is it the police or some other form of employment?.

Do you not contribute that amount as it is a % of your salary?

usually - which is matched by the employer with taxation money.

Scotland backdated the pay and reduced the influx of new police from 1000 to 500.

so not backdated an extra 1000 on the pay roll, back dated only 500 on the payroll.

they do a good job ,they are paid well , if they feel hard done by resign.
who's policeing the police?.
just for interst does anyone know which job is the most dangerous where being assaulted is a problem , is it the police or some other form of employment?.

i would hazard a guess at hospital staff or dole office workers.

sorry willman, my point there was that you (not you specifically) are paying x amount towards a pension, and that x amount is based upon your salary i.e. the payments of x are high because the salary is high

Alex3659- professional boxer or cage fighter- thats gotta hold quite a high chance of being assulted when your 'on shift'

Do you not contribute that amount as it is a % of your salary?

A high percentage of their salary.

Also, the problem is not so much the actual amount of the pay rise, although one at least close to inflation is in essence only sensible. The big problem is that an agreement on the increase could not be reached through the usual measures.

Because the Police are legally not allowed to strike, there is a legal process in place which dictates how annual cost of living increases are decided. The end stage of this process is binding arbitration. The Arbiters decided that the pay rise should be 2.5% backdated to 1st September, which is when the increase would have come in has it been decided in time. The Police Federation, their representative body, was bound by this and could not appeal the decision.

The Gavernment should also be bound by this. However, Jaqui Smith, and thereby the Home Office and consequently the Govenment decided that actually they didn't want to pay that and decided they would only backdate to December. Thereby effectively reducing the amount of the rise.

The complaint is not the actual money but the fact the government he reneged on a legislated process which was put in place when the Police gave up the right to strike, for the good of the country.

The benefits of private sector work are very different, but still benefits. Not risking life and limb on every shift being one.

I hope this protest shows the depth of feeling and that the government come to their senses.

willman - i agree there are other roles which entail a danger of assault but i must say it has to be the police that hold that unwanted award for most assaulted.

like i keep saying its not about the amount, its about the PRINCIPAL of the thing.

as for what a police officer would have to do in the public sector to earn a comparable wage - the role of a police officer is so wide i think that no other job can compare. in the private sector a police officer would have be, door staff, highways officer, coroners agent, social worker, paramedic, lost persons worker, RSPCA staff, DVLA agent, repo worker, bereavements councilor and store security all in one shift just to cover some of the things they do. would that mean more than one wage??

And do 'most people' pay £324.92 towards their pension, as I did this and every other month? No.

I agree the pension scheme is a good one, but look at the sums we contribute towards it!

If you paid that much in I daren’t ask how much you earned, plenty of overtime watching, sorry I mean policing the football matches.

Nobody doubts the police do a thankless job, but they have a gold plated pension scheme that only an employer backed by the tax payer could provide.

If you paid that much in I daren’t ask how much you earned, plenty of overtime watching, sorry I mean policing the football matches.

Nobody doubts the police do a thankless job, but they have a gold plated pension scheme that only an employer backed by the tax payer could provide.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, much research has shown how much working shifts for long periods shortens life expectancy.

I wonder if peoples experiences of the police is flavouring their opinions here? I have never had a bad experience with them so Im all for them having a big pay increase, but if someone has had a bad time or two with them....

I wouldn't worry about it too much, much research has shown how much working shifts for long periods shortens life expectancy.

That gives me more reason to worry, I have worked shifts for nearly 30 years and my final salary pension and chance of early retirement went out the window 2 years ago. :(:(

i've always had an excellent rapport with the police. perhaps the fact that i have several friends who are officers that may colour my judgement.
how about gloating that the overtime at an accident scene alone has doubled his monthly salary.
or "suing" the force for comp - following vehicular accidents with civilians.twice.

If you paid that much in I daren’t ask how much you earned, plenty of overtime watching, sorry I mean policing the football matches.

Nobody doubts the police do a thankless job, but they have a gold plated pension scheme that only an employer backed by the tax payer could provide.

You couldn't resist the sarcasm regarding 'policing football matches' could you?

If you must know, I worked throughout Christmas on 'nights' thereby missing out (again) on seeing my daughter open her presents plus the other celebrations that you and others take for granted.
And yes, I did know the job entailed such sacrifices when I joined almost 20 years ago.

What I also believed then and know for sure now, is that anyone who completes 30yrs of the job deserves every single penny of their so-called 'gold-plated' pension.

Anyone who might be kidded into thinking police don't have good pension provisions should have a look at this (http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/news-and-publications/publication/human-resources/NPPS_Members'_Guide_Sept_06.pdf?view=Binary). It says on there amongst other things that the contributions made by an individual only pays for a third of their pension. I wonder who meets the cost of the rest. The fire service have similar "perks" which is why they didn't enjoy public support when they striked a few years ago.

You couldn't resist the sarcasm regarding 'policing football matches' could you?

If you must know, I worked throughout Christmas on 'nights' thereby missing out (again) on seeing my daughter open her presents plus the other celebrations that you and others take for granted.
And yes, I did know the job entailed such sacrifices when I joined almost 20 years ago.

What I also believed then and know for sure now, is that anyone who completes 30yrs of the job deserves every single penny of their so-called 'gold-plated' pension.


i've seen thi watchin football matches.

Anyone who might be kidded into thinking police don't have good pension provisions should have a look at this (http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/news-and-publications/publication/human-resources/NPPS_Members'_Guide_Sept_06.pdf?view=Binary). It says on there amongst other things that the contributions made by an individual only pays for a third of their pension. I wonder who meets the cost of the rest. The fire service have similar "perks" which is why they didn't enjoy public support when they striked a few years ago.

we know who pays it , the same people that pay council staff their super pension schemes. The rest of us taxpayers.
so a £350 contribution by an officer (guessing @ around 12% of salary would equate to a monthly income of nearly £3000) would be made up to a £1000 pension contribution every month.

i've always had an excellent rapport with the police. perhaps the fact that i have several friends who are officers that may colour my judgement.
how about gloating that the overtime at an accident scene alone has doubled his monthly salary.
or "suing" the force for comp - following vehicular accidents with civilians.twice.

Yeah but dont we all have a little gloat about the perks of our jobs from time to time?
When I was working, I used to do it, we had all sorts of fiddles on the go.

What I also believed then and know for sure now, is that anyone who completes 30yrs of the job deserves every single penny of their so-called 'gold-plated' pension.

See post 30, the difference is you pension isn’t going to be withdrawn like the vast majority of final salary pensions in the private sector.

Since when did Xmas fall in every month?

“And do 'most people' pay £324.92 towards their pension, as I did this and every other month?”

Yeah but dont we all have a little gloat about the perks of our jobs from time to time?
When I was working, I used to do it, we had all sorts of fiddles on the go.

there are perks and there are perks - surely.
i don't mind them getting a quid off or a free burger. but doubling your wages,and dont get me wrong these officers knew how to milk it.
i was also advised that if we needed any work doing on our house - my mate could get an officer who was experienced or qualified int he trade to come and do it on his days off.
they can't be that overworked if all they do on days off is moonlight.

Yeah but dont we all have a little gloat about the perks of our jobs from time to time?
When I was working, I used to do it, we had all sorts of fiddles on the go.

Did you also know that if you place a police helmet in the rear window of your car you'll never be stopped by the traffic cops for any driving offences? ;)

Did you also know that if you place a police helmet in the rear window of your car you'll never be stopped by the traffic cops for any driving offences? ;)

Even if its a circa 1984/1985 one with a pick sticking out of it?

See post 30, the difference is you pension isn’t going to be withdrawn like the vast majority of final salary pensions in the private sector.

Since when did Xmas fall in every month?

“And do 'most people' pay £324.92 towards their pension, as I did this and every other month?”

Xmas doesn't fall in every month, but matters such as crime and road traffic initiatives, murder scenes, incident-related operations, the floods and other Bank Holidays can do.

There arent many jobs out there, thank god that has people working with some of the dregs of society, having to be on your guard at all times in case someone has a pop at you and seeing some of the sights that the scuffers must see on a daily basis.
Im surprised that depression isnt an industrial hazard of that bloody job and I say again, give em a good wage, they deserve it.

That's their job, you know that, I know that, they know that when they join. Some people work down sewers, some people dig roads up at night, some people work down coal mines, plenty people work in crap conditions. The only time anyone can complain is if their work conditions change for the worse in relation to the job they originally signed up for. I don't believe that is the case with the police. They are very well paid for a job which requires NO academic qualifications whatsoever to join and which has plenty of opportunities for promotion if they wish and have the acumen. Most police say they love their job and there are not many people who can say that, that in itself is worth something and one of the reasons why people are queuing up to join.

The pay rise is worth more than the 1.9 or 2% quoted by the Police Federation because it is consolidated. This means that future rises are based on the 2006/7 wage a 2.5%.

The officers who suffer disproportionately are the ones who will retire over the next 18 months.

Other areas within the public sector have been modernised in the last few years, as has the public sector pension scheme (although its still very good). For example Agenda for Change has affected many NHS staff, but there has not been the press coverage. Now its the Police's turn and they do not like it.

The argument is not about the merits of the job, or the people undertaking the job. Its about the way the Government is attacking public sector pay. Ultimately the only power the police, or any of the rest of us, have is to vote them out if we don't like it.

Xmas doesn't fall in every month, but matters such as crime and road traffic initiatives, murder scenes, incident-related operations, the floods and other Bank Holidays can do.

You stated you paid that much pension because:- ” If you must know, I worked throughout Christmas on 'nights' “


I have worked in heavy industry for 30 years, shifts, bank holidays, double backs, 12 hours, red hot in summer, freezing in winter and I have seen colleagues have serious injuries/ amputations, luckily no deaths.

I wouldn’t try and put it on par with the emergency services but you are not on your own thinking you have earned your pension after 30 years, its just that yours is guaranteed where as many people have had theirs taken away.

As I said at the start of the thread if the protest had been steelworkers or miners it would have just been brushed aside.

The officers who suffer disproportionately are the ones who will retire over the next 18 months.

Since the pension is 50% of final salary the most he will suffer is a lower pension of 0.3% of that final salary which in the case of the vast majority of coppers would be much less than £2 a week. Hardly a big deal when they retire at 55 when everyone else is having their retirement age increased.

Actually thats a bloody good point.
I wonder who will lead mounted charges at THEM and start fights with them, like they did to the miners and poll tax protesters....

I'm sure that won't be necessary today as the officers "policing" this demonstration for once wont have to be watching their backs for the unecessary violence that often occurs on such occasions. :|

keep smiling :hihi::hihi:

I'm sure that won't be necessary today as the officers "policing" this demonstration for once wont have to be watching their backs for the unecessary violence that often occurs on such occasions. :|

keep smiling :hihi::hihi:

I have got it now is that what makes it a impressive sight. :roll:

There are many public workers and workers generally who doubtlessly deserve more pay. The nurses and teachers being examples.
I seem to recall many instances of police 'harrassment' during many of the demo's by these sectors - cases where the police have split up groups for being 'too many in numbers', where they have closed off roads to ministries or headquarters, arrested people for what the police consider to be 'offensive behavior' and separating strike leaders from union members merely to upset proceeding or provoke the commission of arrestable offending.

The procession through London looks very low key and well behaved so far - wonder when they'll start turning cars over and painting slogans on walls!

It is a bit of a turnaround isn't it?
The point about who is policing them is very pertinent, do they not need policing because they ARE above the law as they have shown on numerous occasions.
I say give them nothing. If i remember correctly are they not exempt from paying council tax?
If they dont give them 1 1/2 % pay rise then make them pay council tax. I wonder what they would choose.
Oh i can hear a police siren, it must be chinese time:)

It is a bit of a turnaround isn't it?
The point about who is policing them is very pertinent, do they not need policing because they ARE above the law as they have shown on numerous occasions.
I say give them nothing. If i remember correctly are they not exempt from paying council tax?
If they dont give them 1 1/2 % pay rise then make them pay council tax. I wonder what they would choose.
Oh i can hear a police siren, it must be chinese time:)

No, you didn't remember correctly. They do pay Council Tax.

And no-one has ever heard the 'chinese meal joke' before....;)

The boys (and girls) in blue go into this job knowing full well what the salary is and what the work entails. It is a good salary and they also enjoy very good sickness and pension benefits which the private sector can only dream of. I can turn your remark suggesting I join the specials around and suggest that Mr/Ms Average copper has a look to see what s/he has to do to earn that amount in private sector.

And they also took the job knowing that pay would be agreed by an independant arbitration panel.
Which the government have decided to ignore for the first time this year.

I'd be protesting as well if I was an officer.

The procession through London looks very low key and well behaved so far - wonder when they'll start turning cars over and painting slogans on walls!

The procession may look low key but it's the sheer numbers that's impressive. The Police Federation were expecting 15,000 officers but apparently 22,000 officers have turned up. That's 22,000 officers from all over the country. I know officers left Sheffield and South Yorkshire at 5.30 this morning. Who knows what time they set off from further north - i.e. North and West Yorks, Northumbria and Cumbria.

They're not demonstrating about their pay being backdated to Sept as such but for the principle and the underhand way the government have treated police officers and no doubt other public sector workers.

Interestingly PCSO's who wear a 'police' uniform but have relatively few police powers have had their pay backdated to Sept. What message does that give to police officers?

If i remember correctly are they not exempt from paying council tax?


No police officers aren't exempt from council tax! They don't keep the fines they issue to motorists either before anyone suggests otherwise!

i heard of the copper who claimed compensation for repetative ilness caused at work .
he couldn't stop saying ..HELLO, HELLO, HELLO.
i wonder if he had triple vision:huh::hihi:

There are many public workers and workers generally who doubtlessly deserve more pay. The nurses and teachers being examples. I seem to recall many instances of police 'harrassment' during many of the demo's by these sectors - cases where the police have split up groups for being 'too many in numbers', where they have closed off roads to ministries or headquarters, arrested people for what the police consider to be 'offensive behavior' and separating strike leaders from union members merely to upset proceeding or provoke the commission of arrestable offending.

The procession through London looks very low key and well behaved so far - wonder when they'll start turning cars over and painting slogans on walls!

Very true. Teachers and nurses, unlike our police, have to face violence from the public, day in, day out, and are NOT trained or supported in the use of reasonable force to defend themselves. Teachers have seen their powers eroded and their working conditions worsen, they don't get overtime for parents evenings, working weekends and then in the evenings after they have had a very gruelling day. They don't get paid a penny extra for all the extra hours that goes in to planning and taking kids on trips. It is all based on their goodwill. They have to spend a minimum of 6 years longer in education, getting into debt, and not being able to start a pension, before they get a job, unlike in the police force. Comparatively, they are worse paid than the police force, the majority have to work until 65 now. They have not seen the pay increases over the last years that police have. The police should be paid more, teachers and nurses should be paid more. We are arguing about scraps, that don't even come anywhere near to the rises in costs of living we are experiencing; soaring fuel costs, council tax increases, mortgages, food bills, whilst MPs give themselves huge fat pay rises to their already, fair salaries. Time to pay decent wages to everyone else now. They can afford it, how dare they say that throwing a few scraps to these deserving people will cause inflation to rocket. For those who say, vote them out, I think they have short memories. The situation was even worse under the Tories and will always be for public sector workers, Labour is the lesser of two evils. Time for an alternative.

ho hum. this one is SO up and down!

the government has reneged, apparently without negotiation, on a previous agreement on salary awards - wrong, surely?

on the other hand, the police have had the equivalent of 39% increase over past ten years when inflation over the same period has been about 16%. not a bad result, eh, PCs?

we shouldn't ever KNOCK people (even the police ;) ) who get a good pension; we should be asking why everyone can't have one.

it does make me a bit sick how great this rally is meant to be: several thousand essentially well-paid people having a bit of a tiff with the govt of the day, in no fear of their jobs having a stroll through london with their lovely white caps on.

several thousand miners, in fear of their jobs, livelihoods, communities, facing a government determined to crush them, being policed to the point of harrassment and more.............. trouble causers, apparently.

interesting times. as the texter said on toby foster this morning.......... "toby, it's PC gone mad".

Its a very difficult situation really. Although....I do feel that the Police should be entitled to a pay rise and should be allowed to strike. If you look at the armed forces who get paid a considerable amount more money than the Police, yet essentially have similar jobs of protecting this country.

surely the police don't protect the country, yongatron? if they DO protect (rather than investigate crimes) surely it's property, mainly, then (possibly) people?

:huh:

What, if they had been steelworkers or Miners they no doubt would have been portrayed as a money grabbing mob, why is this protest a impressive sight.

:huh:
great point, gordon brown said on parliament live today on t v that over ten years they have had 39% in pay rises to keep up with increasing inflation,the word increasing should have given him a clue as to why they want a pay rise,after all,we all dont live on a salary amount to around £ 4,000 a week with allowances, its about time brown spent time among the people of britain and learned to listen to them,instead of his advisors,the average price of shopping is rising each week,the petrol prices are rising daily,house fuel prices go up in tens of percents,not point one ,but as you say,if it had been the miners or steelworkers they would have had a bad press

See post 30, the difference is you pension isn’t going to be withdrawn like the vast majority of final salary pensions in the private sector.

Since when did Xmas fall in every month?

“And do 'most people' pay £324.92 towards their pension, as I did this and every other month?”

If that is 9.5% of your monthly wage ,not bad at all.

They are arguing over less than £200, it's pathetic considering the money they waste, they should be treated in same contemptuous way as they treat the public when they want such a petty argument with them.


I mean i have had my fair share of Trouble with them when i was younger and i don't like the Police Personally but i think they Sure as hell Deserve a big Pay Rise ahead of some of those big wig MPS who do sod all because they are there to protect our country at the end of the day.

If that is 9.5% of your monthly wage ,not bad at all.

No, it's over 11% actually.

No, it's over 11% actually.

What’s £300 quid out of 3 grand a month, then that I assume is matched by you employer/tax payer, over £600 a month in you pension fund , nice little nest egg., if I was getting anywhere near that I would be counting the days to my retirement.

Oops from your signature looks like you have got the same idea, imagine like many others your final salary pension was frozen and you have to work another 10 years then you might have something to moan about.

No, it's over 11% actually.

Not according to your agreement it is 9.5%

3.2 Your contributions
You pay contributions towards the cost of your pension benefits. These are set as a percentage of your ‘pensionable pay’, the current rate being 9.5%. If you are ineligible for ill-health benefits you will pay contributions at a reduced rate, currently 6%. In NPPS, in common with most other public sector pension schemes, members’ contributions meet about one-third of the estimated cost of providing pensions and other benefits (the remaining cost being met by police authorities and central government).
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

What cannot speak cannot lie.

Could be paying AVC`s that would be a cherry on top wouldn’t it.

Maybe i'm biased because i have a couple of friends who are coppers but i think they def deserve a pay rise. They stick themselves in harms way everyday and yes they may get 4 days off in a row but that usually follows some pretty long and crappy shifts. Its not just the police who i think deserve a rise. Many of the public sector jobs are underpaid for the qualifications and skills required in comparison to the private sector. I work for the NHS and as with everyone who works for the NHS the payrise we received was below inflation and split over the year essentially devaluing the rise. Luckily though we managed to get backdated pay in the end so why the hell shouldn't the police get paid the wage they've earned.

Nothing to do with the march, but last week, someone I know had her car stolen during the early hours. That same day she was to attend her Sister's funeral. Well yes, it does happen you may say - but read on. Her brother was found in the car some hours later, drugged up to the eyeballs. No driving licence, so therefore no insurance. Drugs and needles were found with him. He was removed from the car by police, who arrested him. He escaped them and the police helicopter was called out to find him - which it did. You may say 'serve him right'. No such luck. His sister has been told by South Yorkshire Police that he will not be charged with anything, as it is a family dispute. She has also been told it will cost her £200.00 to get her car back.

the police service are the first point of contact me make when the situation arises these people deserve the rise more than those sat in th council tax office

The Police don't deserve a larger rise than other public sector workers. But they don't deserve less either.

Being over/underpaid is not an issue for the an annual cost of living increase, it is a different argument and should be addressed separately.

Why don't they give all public sector workers the same percentage? That would be fairer and would help the police as some of their colleagues could do the striking for them (if we'd notice).

I think cops are treated pretty baddly considering what they have to deal with, just look at THE STAR from last night. Cop in Barnsley has lived in his Police house for 17 years, as far as I know pre 1994 these houses were provided for officers and they're families with the rent whatever was taken out of they're wages.
They don't provide these police houses anymore but the ones who'd already got them were allowed to carry on renting/mortgaging.
Now the Barnsley force have decided to sell off the housing stock, leaving this bobbie and his family technically on the street!
Surely he should have had first refusal on this house but it looks as though they went behind his back and sold the house anyway.
Things are bad enough for bobbies without having to deal with this.

What’s £300 quid out of 3 grand a month, then that I assume is matched by you employer/tax payer, over £600 a month in you pension fund , nice little nest egg., if I was getting anywhere near that I would be counting the days to my retirement.

Oops from your signature looks like you have got the same idea, imagine like many others your final salary pension was frozen and you have to work another 10 years then you might have something to moan about.

God I wish my partner who is a police officer got £3,000 a month, I really do! Not even with overtime does he get that!

these people deserve the rise more than those sat in th council tax office

... who, I happen to know, haven't had a pay rise in almost two years and would very likely snatch your hand off if you offered them 1.9%.

God I wish my partner who is a police officer got £3,000 a month, I really do! Not even with overtime does he get that!

I can only use the figures provided by the person that posted, if they are moaning about paying over £300 in to a pension a month it must mean they are on something in the £3000 a month region, they quoted 11%, you do the sums.

Even the presenter on last nights news couldn’t resist a little quip in his closing report: - “and nobody dare touch their generous pension”

I can only use the figures provided by the person that posted, if they are moaning about paying over £300 in to a pension a month it must mean they are on something in the £3000 a month region, they quoted 11%, you do the sums.

Even the presenter on last nights news couldn’t resist a little quip in his closing report: - “and nobody dare touch their generous pension”If he is paying 9.5% out of gross pay, therefore untaxed, into his pension that means that he would be earning 41042.52 pa unless he is paying extra voluntarily in which case he can't complain. However when he retires if he has done 35 years he will get 50% pension for life increased by 1/35th(2.85%) of the pension per year for 20 years plus index linked increase, plus lump sum of 4 x the pension on retirement plus payment can be paid to widow or children if he dies. Bear in mind also that when he retires in 1753 days he will be £324.92 ( at current figure) better off per month because he won't have to pay his contributions any more and he will only be 55 so he can go and work at B & Q as well if he wants. I think that's a pretty good deal. There may be people who seem to have a better deal whilst working but to have your future security guaranteed in that way must be very comforting to know.

If he is paying 9.5% out of gross pay, therefore untaxed, into his pension that means that he would be earning 41042.52 pa unless he is paying extra voluntarily in which case he can't complain.

That would make my “off the top of the head” calculation a little conservative then.

It's a good deal whichever way we look at it.

It's a good deal whichever way we look at it.

If I had a pension like that I wouldn’t be rocking the boat, I would be keeping my head down and counting the days.

And they also took the job knowing that pay would be agreed by an independant arbitration panel.
Which the government have decided to ignore for the first time this year.

I'd be protesting as well if I was an officer.This government have reneged and gone back on all manner of promises and principles, EU referendum for example. We should all be protesting in the street not just the coppers over a few quid.

Not according to your agreement it is 9.5%

afraid you are wrong there lazyherbert.

9.5 is from a new pension scheme which came into play in 2006. anyone joining after that date pays 9.5, anyone before pays over 11 or had the option to join the less fruitful scheme.:loopy:

the new pension scheme, as most have wrongly pointed out, is less beneficial to the officers than the old one. therefore when the presenter stated ' ....nobody dare touch the pension...' he was wrong. they already have.

the new pension scheme is more money in the pocket from your wage but less in the form of a pension.

the new pension scheme is more money in the pocket from your wage but less in the form of a pension.You can't have it both ways, it's still a very good deal.

:

the new pension scheme, as most have wrongly pointed out, is less beneficial to the officers than the old one. therefore when the presenter stated ' ....nobody dare touch the pension...' he was wrong. they already have.



Either way it makes 4% from me and 4% from the employer look a bit of a joke doesn’t it.:(

afraid you are wrong there lazyherbert.

9.5 is from a new pension scheme which came into play in 2006. anyone joining after that date pays 9.5, anyone before pays over 11 or had the option to join the less fruitful scheme.:loopy:

the new pension scheme, as most have wrongly pointed out, is less beneficial to the officers than the old one. therefore when the presenter stated ' ....nobody dare touch the pension...' he was wrong. they already have.

the new pension scheme is more money in the pocket from your wage but less in the form of a pension.

This is the 2006 pension scheme.So it has been changed since then, if so, I cannot find it.

This (http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/human-resources/police-pensions/1987-pension/)is the old scheme which applies to those who joined before April 2006 which I would imagine is most of them. My numbers earlier related to the 2006 scheme which is generous, but take a look at this ffs. I can't believe that any of them have the audacity to complain.

I don't think they did complain about their pension.
They complained about the government screwing them out of the agreed payrise.

I don't think they did complain about their pension.
They complained about the government screwing them out of the agreed payrise.Yes they did, but what is being said here by some of us is that they have got a good deal and that there are plenty of others with a far worse deal who aren't/can't complain and the amount they are complaining about is peanuts.

Either way it makes 4% from me and 4% from the employer look a bit of a joke doesn’t it.:(

On the plus side, you get to take home 7% more of your monthly pay than a police officer.

On the plus side, you get to take home 7% more of your monthly pay than a police officer.

Is that a joke ? :huh:

On the plus side, you get to take home 7% more of your monthly pay than a police officer.He won't be able to convert that 7% into 21% guaranteed pension. :loopy:

I don't think they did complain about their pension.
They complained about the government screwing them out of the agreed payrise.

so they decided to protest about .5% over 3 months.or was it the 1.9% over 3 months i can't quite understand which bit it is.
£45 or £171 - before tax.

i wonder how many threw a sick day today.

What'd be good is if the organisers had forgotten to apply for "permission" to protest under the SOCPA legislation and the marching policemen were arrested by on-duty policemen for an unauthorised protest. How I'd laugh.

:D

Is that a joke ? :huh:

No it isn't.

If you want you can convert that into a pension, there's nothing to stop you taking out an additional private pension if you can't contribute more than 4% to your employee scheme (although it would be unusual if there is no provision for you not to).

so they decided to protest about .5% over 3 months.or was it the 1.9% over 3 months i can't quite understand which bit it is.
£45 or £171 - before tax.

i wonder how many threw a sick day today.

Why not do your research first and find out what it is they are protesting about then?

Yes they did, but what is being said here by some of us is that they have got a good deal and that there are plenty of others with a far worse deal who aren't/can't complain and the amount they are complaining about is peanuts.

Well as far as I can tell it sounds like envy.

The fact is that an amount was agreed by the government at the arbitration panel, the government have then refused to honour this amount.
It doesn't matter whether it's 5%, 0.5% or 0.000005%, the principle is important, and maybe they do have a decent package (feel free to sign up of course) but that's neither here nor there when the issue is the government not sticking to the agreed amount.

just listen to urself cyclone sound like a rite tit

well touché, you really kicked my points into touch with that response :D

Malky- "Is that a joke"

No it isn't.

If you want you can convert that into a pension, there's nothing to stop you taking out an additional private pension if you can't contribute more than 4% to your employee scheme (although it would be unusual if there is no provision for you not to).

I was giggling away- until I realise it wasn't a joke... oh dear

I watched Taking Liberties the other day. It showed how the police are used to suppress protest by their political paymasters. Their Forward Intelligence Team (FIT) attend protests and aggressively shove their big cameras into peoples faces and follow them home. They'll force everyone into a pen, keep them there for a few hours, then search and photograph people one-by-one as they leave - everyone from anarchists to grannies.

The Home Office are presently consulting on their plans to "reform" SOCPA (http://www.repeal-socpa.info/index.html). It's proposed that you'll need police permission to protest about anything anywhere, rather than just around parliament as at present.

Maybe some of those on the police march will start to understand that those who protest about things may actually have a point, and not just treat them like thugs that need to be controlled and spied upon. Maybe they'll question the motives of their paymasters who order them to prevent a protest from happening. Maybe.

More police protests!

He heh the Space Hijackers (http://www.spacehijackers.org/) set up a "Make your placard here" stall and issued some song sheets:

"what do we want? - More Money"
"when do we want it? - Backdated from september 2007!"


The FIT team eventually turned up and started documenting us for their database, this however gave us a great opportunity to show off our Police issue face masks. As we were being photographed our professional protesters advised the marchers 'Dear ladies and gentlemen, watch out for this lot, they will be putting you on their database of known subversives, try and cover your faces if you can" Amusingly this caused the FIT officers to scurry off quite quickly when the limelight was on them.

There's no reason for that - have a look at the pics - why the police feel the need to intimidate protesters with their enormous cameras is... sinister.

Here's the pics (http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/01/390093.html)

I think cleaners do a better job than the polizei, they get no respesct and nmw.
Id give the police a pay cut or performance related pay.
With full prisons and a long delay for places, we dont need the amount of police we have.
If we sack a thousand, we could all have tax cuts.

Well as far as I can tell it sounds like envy.

Yes I do wish I had such a generous pension provision, unfortunately I work for myself so I have to earn all my contributions and make decisions and take risks as to where the money should be invested as it is not underwritten by the taxpayer.

A bit worrying for everyone when a police force starts public protests against the government of the day don't you think?

No it isn't.

If you want you can convert that into a pension, there's nothing to stop you taking out an additional private pension if you can't contribute more than 4% to your employee scheme (although it would be unusual if there is no provision for you not to).

You are missing the point, I could pay more pension but my employer wouldn’t pay more and I certainly wouldn’t have the option to retire at 55 , only a employer backed by the tax payer can provide such a generous scheme.

The days of final salary schemes have long gone, good luck to those that still have one, they are certainly worth more than the £200 their moaning about.

It's not 9% of salary. It is in fact 11% of an officers salary.

It's not 9% of salary. It is in fact 11% of an officers salary.It's 11% for people who joined before April 2006 and 9.5% for those who joined after with option to contribute more if they wish.

It's not 9% of salary. It is in fact 11% of an officers salary.

IT gets better doesn’t it, if they pay 11% how much does the employer/ tax payer contribute? :suspect:

You are missing the point, I could pay more pension but my employer wouldn’t pay more and I certainly wouldn’t have the option to retire at 55 , only a employer backed by the tax payer can provide such a generous scheme.

The days of final salary schemes have long gone, good luck to those that still have one, they are certainly worth more than the £200 their moaning about.

But the pension scheme isn't in question, the £200 they were due as a payrise is. Are they not completely separate issues? (That's rhetorical by the way).

And if it's me missing the point, why are you complaining about the amount the officers pay into their scheme, rather than actually finding out what amount the police force contribute and then complaining to your employer?

Yes I do wish I had such a generous pension provision, unfortunately I work for myself so I have to earn all my contributions and make decisions and take risks as to where the money should be invested as it is not underwritten by the taxpayer.

A bit worrying for everyone when a police force starts public protests against the government of the day don't you think?

No, I think it's them exercising their right to peaceful demonstration against a government that is intent on screwing them out of a payrise.
They are one of the few professions, public or private that can't actually strike, so protesting is the only option they have.

But the pension scheme isn't in question, the £200 they were due as a payrise is. Are they not completely separate issues? (That's rhetorical by the way).

And if it's me missing the point, why are you complaining about the amount the officers pay into their scheme, rather than actually finding out what amount the police force contribute and then complaining to your employer?

I am not complaining about anything, it’s the police that are complaining, some people just don’t know when they are on to a good thing.

As for your rhetorical question they may be separate but they both make up part of their pay and conditions and if most peoples pensions even came close to theirs I don’t think they would be rocking the boat.

As for your rhetorical question they may be separate but they both make up part of their pay and conditions and if most peoples pensions even came close to theirs I don’t think they would be rocking the boat.I think if they did come close there would be less people so keen on being coppers.

I think if they did come close there would be less people so keen on being coppers.

And God help us all then !

And God help us all then !

There are a few people that would rather walk the streets of Sheffield than Afghanistan.

I think cleaners do a better job than the polizei, they get no respesct and nmw.
Id give the police a pay cut or performance related pay.
With full prisons and a long delay for places, we dont need the amount of police we have.
If we sack a thousand, we could all have tax cuts.

pretty sure this would make things worse all round. y our suggesting about a 1/3rd cut in officer numbers to [I]improve[I] service??

you would probably pay less in taxes but i guarantee you would pay a hell of a lot more in insurance premiums.

performance related pay?? what more money per arrest?? under SOCAP guidelines all offenses are now arrestable as long as they pass a simple 'necessity test'. would you like to be arrested for something whereby the officer can use his/her discretion and just give you a stern telling off? more money per person searched?? again a simple test can ensure this would result in a lot more innocent people being searched, inconvenienced and pixxed off.

performance related pay i feel would not work

more money per person searched?? again a simple test can ensure this would result in a lot more innocent people being searched, inconvenienced and pixxed off.

performance related pay i feel would not work

My youngest son was stopped and searched, he was well pixxed off. :hihi:

It is a bit of a turnaround isn't it?
The point about who is policing them is very pertinent, do they not need policing because they ARE above the law as they have shown on numerous occasions.
I say give them nothing. If i remember correctly are they not exempt from paying council tax?
If they dont give them 1 1/2 % pay rise then make them pay council tax. I wonder what they would choose.
Oh i can hear a police siren, it must be chinese time:)

You've been sadly misinformed.....Police Officers DO have to pay Council Tax, especially the segment pertaining to Police Services.

I know this as my dad was a Copper, and yes, when it was Rates they were exempt if they were living in tied accommodation (I can't remember if it also applied to those in other accommodation). When Poll Tax was brought in, that all went out the window, and Police Officers are still expected to pay into the service they work in, which I believe is just and fair.

I think cleaners do a better job than the polizei, they get no respesct and nmw.
Id give the police a pay cut or performance related pay.
With full prisons and a long delay for places, we dont need the amount of police we have.
If we sack a thousand, we could all have tax cuts.

You seriously want performance related pay? Do you? Really?

Members of the public are already unhappy that the Police appear to be arresting people for drugs possession etc in order to improve their performance figures. Police Officers on the frontline are already being leant on by their District Commanders and Chief Constables for spending too long processing and investigating community crimes which require alot of investment of time and dedication with minimal crime statistics.

The Government have already screwed the policing of OUR communities by performance figure statistical requirements. You now want to motivate Police Officers to crime incidents in order to earn their wages?!

Think you need to consider that one again.....carefully.

Yes I do wish I had such a generous pension provision, unfortunately I work for myself so I have to earn all my contributions and make decisions and take risks as to where the money should be invested as it is not underwritten by the taxpayer.

A bit worrying for everyone when a police force starts public protests against the government of the day don't you think?

Considering the whole principle behind this protest by our country's Police Force is that arbiters stated the pay rise should be backdated to 1st September 2007, and the Government has decided not to abide by that, I think it's brilliant that those Officers are making a very high profile statement.

If our Government thinks it's perfectly acceptable to treat the Police in this fashion (especially as there are inconsistencies in their implimentation), how long before they really take the proverbial with other public service employees?

Police Officers are demonstrating to make a statement relating to the handling of Police pay negotiations, but I feel the results of this disagreement will have long lasting effects on other workers in public sector roles.

I am not complaining about anything, it’s the police that are complaining, some people just don’t know when they are on to a good thing.

As for your rhetorical question they may be separate but they both make up part of their pay and conditions and if most peoples pensions even came close to theirs I don’t think they would be rocking the boat.

Their pension may be good, does that mean that they should ignore the government withholding a pay rise? I wouldn't, and I doubt you would either.

Their pension may be good, does that mean that they should ignore the government withholding a pay rise? I wouldn't, and I doubt you would either.

Give them a pay rise and take it of their pension, simple, its swings and roundabouts, some people want it all.:roll:

It's an annual pay rise, to keep their pay level in real terms because of inflation.
Honestly, it just sounds like you're really jealous, and I don't think it's justified at all, the package is a reasonable one for the job they do.

The issue here was one of the government reneging on what should have been a binding agreement and the right of the police to protest to make their point. I'm really quite surprised at the level of envy that causes people to respond by basically saying that the police are over compensated and deserve screwing over by the government.

Honestly, it just sounds like you're really jealous, and I don't think it's justified at all, the package is a reasonable one for the job they do.

People don't necessarily argue/discuss/debate these sort of points due to envy. I personally think that the police have a good renumeration package and I get weary of hearing them moaning about it all the time. If it was so bad they would jack it in and there wouldn't be a long list of people waiting to join. The conditions of their work is irrelevant in this scenario.

As for their protest, we have all been turned over by this lousy government, most of us to the tune of rather more than a couple of hundred quid and everyone should be on the streets, ironically the police have seen to it that demonstrating is not as easy as it should be but they think they are a special case. They aren't protesting on behalf of rest of public service sector, I didn't see any signs of other parts of public services supporting them. In short the police do not enjoy the support of the majority of the public on pay issues.

I get weary of hearing them moaning about it all the time. If it was so bad they would jack it in and there wouldn't be a long list of people waiting to join. The conditions of their work is irrelevant in this scenario.
They don't moan about it all the time. They are simply asking the Government to keep its promise to abide by an independently agreed pay award.

When was the last time that the Police 'moaned' about pay, unlike plenty of other public sector workers?

People don't necessarily argue/discuss/debate these sort of points due to envy. I personally think that the police have a good renumeration package and I get weary of hearing them moaning about it all the time. If it was so bad they would jack it in and there wouldn't be a long list of people waiting to join. The conditions of their work is irrelevant in this scenario.

But they weren't 'moaning' about the package in general, or even about the amount agreed at the arbitration panel. They were 'moaning' about the government breaking the agreed deal and reducing the pay rise to less than inflation, effectively meaning that the police get a pay cut this year.
As for their protest, we have all been turned over by this lousy government, most of us to the tune of rather more than a couple of hundred quid and everyone should be on the streets, ironically the police have seen to it that demonstrating is not as easy as it should be but they think they are a special case.
Are the police passing laws and making policy now then? I think not, the government have made protesting more difficult, the police have the job of enforcing the law, they can't pick and choose which laws they'd like to enforce.
[quote] They aren't protesting on behalf of rest of public service sector, I didn't see any signs of other parts of public services supporting them. In short the police do not enjoy the support of the majority of the public on pay issues.
This thread says otherwise, with the exception of what appears to be a jealous few most people support the police and think that they should get the full 2.1% that was agreed.

Some may be jealous but I'm not one of them in case you wondered, I have a better deal than the police. The police have got the agreed rise over a few years from December, it hasn't been backdated and it is a one off "loss" of less than £200. I have to admit I don't know why the government have done it and it isn't a good move but even so, it's nothing in the greater scheme of things.

Most things aren't, but that doesn't mean that you should ignore them.
It may be only £200, but it's the principle that's important isn't it.

i thnk thats the whole crux ofthe situation, it isnt the money, obviously 200 quid isnt a huga ammount. it's the blatant lack of respect that the goverments seems to have for people that take the job of a police officer in order to try and help people.

They don't moan about it all the time. They are simply asking the Government to keep its promise to abide by an independently agreed pay award.

When was the last time that the Police 'moaned' about pay, unlike plenty of other public sector workers?

Didn`t they threaten to go on strike during the pay talks before these. A few years ago.

It's an annual pay rise, to keep their pay level in real terms because of inflation.
Honestly, it just sounds like you're really jealous, and I don't think it's justified at all, the package is a reasonable one for the job they do.



Jealousy doesn’t come in to it because I couldn’t do their job, bitterness yes, as I keep saying Private employers have been scrapping final salary pensions for years where theirs is guaranteed by us the tax payer.

Let them scrap the pension plan to finance a pay deal; I know which I would prefer, the pension package is priceless.

Whichever way you look at it they have an excellent package, good luck to them but don’t moan about them being hard done by.

i thnk thats the whole crux ofthe situation, it isnt the money, obviously 200 quid isnt a huga ammount. it's the blatant lack of respect that the goverments seems to have for people that take the job of a police officer in order to try and help people.If it were some pen pushers down at the town hall it wouldn't matter then unless they "helped people" like the police do? Since other public servants are allowed to strike do you think they would for a one off payment of less than £200 or do you think the government are only doing it to police because they aren't allowed to strike?

Do you seriously hold the police in such disregard that you would begrudge them a payrise? I am a police officer and if YOU were being burgled I would risk my life and limb to prevent YOUr belongings from being stolen, if YOU were being assaulted I would risk MY health in saving you from harm! yes it is my choice to do the job that i do, but if people did not choose the role of a police officer society would be far worse off. For what its worth i think the proposal to freeze the pay of nurses etc is equally as disgusting. All these people take the roles because they want to help society, i personally applied for the job as a police officer as i see far too many people doing things that they should not be doing and I wanted to help make a difference, yes my wage is decent and i knew about it when i applied for the job, but do i think it is proportionate the the role that i carry out.... no.

I'm not begrudging it, I'm saying it's a fuss about nothing. Of course we need police and there may be situations where I am grateful for their help at any moment but they have made that choice to do that job and that is the remuneration package. I'm not suggesting you aren't there for the reasons you say for one moment but there are plenty of people in the police for reasons other than helping society i.e. the good pay and perks.

if they were in it for the good pay, they chose the wrong job pal.

I'm not begrudging it, I'm saying it's a fuss about nothing. Of course we need police and there may be situations where I am grateful for their help at any moment but they have made that choice to do that job and that is the remuneration package. I'm not suggesting you aren't there for the reasons you say for one moment but there are plenty of people in the police for reasons other than helping society i.e. the good pay and perks.


good pay? for all the job entails? i dont think so.

perks of the job?? like working in an environment where you have to carry around an iron bar and wear a stab vest at all times.....like people attacking you because of the job you do inside AND outside of work.

yeah i forgot about those perks

I'm not begrudging it, I'm saying it's a fuss about nothing. Of course we need police and there may be situations where I am grateful for their help at any moment but they have made that choice to do that job and that is the remuneration package. I'm not suggesting you aren't there for the reasons you say for one moment but there are plenty of people in the police for reasons other than helping society i.e. the good pay and perks.

Constantly missing the point!
The protest isn't about the package, it's about the government reneging on the agreed pay rise set by the independent arbitration panel.

good pay? for all the job entails? i dont think so.

perks of the job?? like working in an environment where you have to carry around an iron bar and wear a stab vest at all times.....like people attacking you because of the job you do inside AND outside of work.

yeah i forgot about those perks

The way you go on you try to make people believe people are attacking you all day.No one has mentioned what the average attack rate is.

Constantly missing the point!
The protest isn't about the package, it's about the government reneging on the agreed pay rise set by the independent arbitration panel.I know what the protest was for, thanks.

I know what the protest was for, thanks.

So why do you keep going on about their pension, or the overall package when that wasn't the issue?

You even said that they joined knowing what the package was, even someone who joined only 2 months ago couldn't predict that the government were going to break a deal they'd agreed to at the independent arbitration panel, so they certainly didn't agree to this by joining up did they.

Just having a discussion Cyclone, that's what we do here. Sometimes it goes a bit off track and originally it went off track because people were saying the police should get paid more because of what they have to do in their chosen job and not that the government have turned them over (which they have).

Most of the posts here aren't about the reason for the protest, they are comments about why the police should or shouldn't be renumerated more for their job and what that job entails which, since you want to be pedantic, is indeed another issue.

The way you go on you try to make people believe people are attacking you all day.No one has mentioned what the average attack rate is.

to be honest there are shifts when people are attacking you all day.

the reported attack rate on police officers will be much less than actual numbers. if you were out on the tiles for the night and got speaking to Mr X in the kebab shop would you tell him your profession?

it would be a bit different if you were a police officer.