I think i may have recieved a speeding ticket for doing 38 in a 30mph. I am down to my last 3 points (as i am in a provisional period i only need 6) and i will lose my licence if i accept the fixed penalty for this offence. I usually stick to the speed limit no all the time but my kid was throwing up in the back seat and my attention was taken for that one split second.

I need my car for work, if i have no licence i will lose my job.

Has anyone tried to fight something like this in court and what was the outcome.

I am certain i will be able to get the points dismissed and pay a larger fine - any ideas if i'm likely to suceed and what the larger fine might be?

You could try the old "right to silence" trick.

t's something along the lines of:
One of our basic human rights is the right to silence.
When the ticket comes through your door you would have to fill in the details, therefore incriminating yourself.
I think the law states something like it is illegal to force someone to do or say anything that will incriminate themselves.

I think this has been fought a few times, but not sure if it's ever been successful.

Not recommending you try it, as I think you can end up with instant bans and a thousand points and million pound fines and your head put on a spike on London Bridge etc if you don't fill in the ticket things they send you.

I'd quite obviously make a crap lawyer.

You might not have been got anyway.
Good luck...
Was it static, or a mobile camera?


Oh yeah, and blah blah you shouldn't have been speeding blah blah don't do the crime if you can't do the crime yap yap yap bore bore bore...

I would very much doubt that you would get away with no points and a bigger fine. You could always get someone else to say they were driving; of course that would be illegal and wrong! :thumbsup:

K x

Originally posted by jackthedog
You could try the old "right to silence" trick.

t's something along the lines of:
One of our basic human rights is the right to silence.
When the ticket comes through your door you would have to fill in the details, therefore incriminating yourself.
I think the law states something like it is illegal to force someone to do or say anything that will incriminate themselves.


Yes, but this isn't really going to matter much if the evidence is overwhelming.....

I heard of a case where it was a couple in their car and they just said that they couldn't remember which one of them was driving, and as there was no evidence to indicate which one was then they were unable to be punished, because they didn't know which one to punish.

Id go for the 'someone else driving' as long as they took the picture from behind!!!!

although i thought they couldn't ban you if your livelihood depended on it- you just got a large fine instead?

Ask them for the calibration details of the camera in writing - they will firstly decline and tell you they will see you in court. Reply to them and ask them for the calibration details before you see them in court......this will continue for 3-5 months and they will be unable to provide the details as the cameras are re-calibrated every 9 days.
It will continue for so long that the police will just write it off as a bad debt.......my uncle works for a bus company down south and thats how they get their drivers off such cases......

Hope this helps

Why is anyone bothering to help? 38 in a 30 zone is far too fast and if you already have points you should have been more careful.

Originally posted by alchresearch
Why is anyone bothering to help? 38 in a 30 zone is far too fast and if you already have points you should have been more careful.

Absolutely 100% Agree. You commited the offence, stop moaning about it and take your punishment. Your obviously not a very good driver if you have already recieved 3 points, if your child was throwing up then you should have pulled up - not gone faster :loopy:

I dont particularly care if you will lose your job, you should have thought about it before.

Hope you get whats coming.

Why is anyone bothering to help? 38 in a 30 zone is far too fast and if you already have points you should have been more careful

Why didnt you read her post then! 38 in a 30 zone its terrible is it!

I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for you. You don't suddenly jump 8mph above the speed limit because your attention was taken away "for that one split second". If anything it would make you slow down. Do the crime, do the time.

The thread was asking for help.
If people cannot/will not help, why do they bother posting?

Help was required, not judgement.

Originally posted by jackthedog
The thread was asking for help.
If people cannot/will not help, why do they bother posting?

Help was required, not judgement.

So what if someone posted saying "HELP! I just got caught with a Swag bag jumping out of someone's living room window, but it wasn't me, honestly, please help."

Plus, I'm presuming before the child was throwing up there was a hint it was going happen and a hope for reaching the destination before it happened. Just in case that was taken wrong - I can understand how you could accidently speed in that situation - I think I'd have panicked.

Originally posted by t020
So what if someone posted saying "HELP! I just got caught with a Swag bag jumping out of someone's living room window, but it wasn't me, honestly, please help."

Good point well made T020.
I take it back.

I just hope that all of the 'do-goody' people that post are really totally squeeky clean themselves.........

Of course were not all squeeky clean - thats not the issue. But if I got a speeding ticket or did somert I shouldnt I wouldnt post on a public forum asking for help to get away with it. Do the crime do the time. End of story.

Originally posted by mat1978
Of course were not all squeeky clean - thats not the issue. But if I got a speeding ticket or did somert I shouldnt I wouldnt post on a public forum asking for help to get away with it. Do the crime do the time. End of story.

Understood. But then what you would or woudn't do isn't the issue either really is it.

Someone asked the forum for help. They may still get it. That's end of story.

In my first reply I hinted that the thread starter would get a load of posts saying how she shouldn't have been speeding in the first place, turning it into yet another huge speeding debate. Something this forum does not need.

Originally posted by sillycow
I am certain i will be able to get the points dismissed and pay a larger fine - any ideas if i'm likely to suceed and what the larger fine might be?

My instincts tell my that this is a 'troll' but here is some information anyway.

Nearly all the websites I have looked at say that magistrates do not have the power to do as you wish. They even remind us that magistrates do have the authority to increase the fine and points.
There is some evidence to suggest that magistrates can look at mitigating circumstances and dismiss the case/ban.
The mitigation that the car is needed for work is unlikely to offset the circumstances that are described which amount to an admission of driving without due care and attention.

If you really need help, perhaps you should consult a solicitor rather than uninformed members of the public on a forum. It's not even in the right area, hardly Sheffield related chat.

Incidentally, been driving since 1990 and had no endorsements.

Originally posted by sillycow
I think i may have recieved a speeding ticket for doing 38 in a 30mph. I am down to my last 3 points (as i am in a provisional period i only need 6) and i will lose my licence if i accept the fixed penalty for this offence. I usually stick to the speed limit no all the time but my kid was throwing up in the back seat and my attention was taken for that one split second.

I need my car for work, if i have no licence i will lose my job.

Advice: Get a good solicitor.

If the case is as you say, you won't get off the points, but they don't have to ban you (IIRC) just 'cos you reach the limit.
A friend of mine (no, really, it wasn't me) got to 15 points, and they let him keep his licence, but he had to be a VERY good boy for quite a while.

Be carefull in future, and do NOT tell the above story in court, they are likely to do you for "driving without due care" as well, then you'd deffo lose your licence.

For now, just wait and see.

Moving to General Chit-Chat.

Originally posted by sillycow
I think i may have recieved a speeding ticket for doing 38 in a 30mph. I am down to my last 3 points (as i am in a provisional period i only need 6) and i will lose my licence if i accept the fixed penalty for this offence. I usually stick to the speed limit no all the time but my kid was throwing up in the back seat and my attention was taken for that one split second.

I need my car for work, if i have no licence i will lose my job.

Has anyone tried to fight something like this in court and what was the outcome.

I am certain i will be able to get the points dismissed and pay a larger fine - any ideas if i'm likely to suceed and what the larger fine might be?

No sympathy, I'm afraid. Especially as you have three already... Perhaps the first time should've taught you the lesson?

Also, "my attention was taken for a split second" is no excuse... I'm sure similar things are said when accidents occur. If you can't give 100% attention to your driving, then perhaps you shouldn't be on the road...

i would just like to say that the 3 i had already had were not for speeding and i have been in touch with a solicitior who says that bcause it is only a minor speeding offence and its my first one and bcause of the cicumstances surrounding ym job it is very likely if not certain that i will get away with a £40 fine and £95 speed awareness course. Doesnt look like i'm gonna lose my licence after all. for those of you that actually offered the help i sought thank you so much, to the rest of you - i didn't ask you to judge me so in future keep your mouths shut will ya and do us all a favour you self righteous edited'rs - i'm sure at some point in your lives you've all done something really stupid that you later regretted .

Originally posted by sillycow
... to the rest of you - i didn't ask you to judge me so in future keep your mouths shut will ya and do us all a favour you self righteous tossers - i'm sure at some point in your lives you've all done something really stupid that you later regretted .
It'll be a miracle if your child makes it to adulthood the way you're going. The sickness couldn't have been brought on by you throwing the car around too fast at all, could it? And letting yourself be distracted in a street full of lampposts is practically suicidal. Please tell us the kid was firmly strapped in the back :mad:

Originally posted by Strix
It'll be a miracle if your child makes it to adulthood the way you're going. The sickness couldn't have been brought on by you throwing the car around too fast at all, could it?......

Chill out mate. In isolation, making such a mistake hardly requires such a harsh judgement.

If that be the case then most adults must have experienced miracles making it to adulthood, having been blessed with parents who never made a single mistake during their upbringing.

Originally posted by Miss
....If you can't give 100% attention to your driving, then perhaps you shouldn't be on the road...
Assuming you've never had a momentary loss of concentration whilst driving, (IMO you'll be very lucky to go through your entire driving life without having a self inflicted icy-fist-in-the-stomach moment), then I hope you don't play any music/radio in the car, or hold a conversation with anyone, cos if you do YOU are not concentrating 100%. I think you're suggesting standards that 99% of drivers don't meet 100% of the time.

Originally posted by sillycow
Doesnt look like i'm gonna lose my licence after all.
Would it be possible for you to pop back later to tell us what the result actually was?

Thank you.

I did not realise that Speed Awareness Course options were available in South Yorkshire, but for anyone that is interested here is a site explaining that it is practiced in Lancashire:

http://www.safe2travel.co.uk/speeding/courseDetails.html

I for one wish you luck and hope you just get a fine, people on this forum are so bloody high and mighty, far to many horses around here at times, most of them are vey very very high!
:thumbsup:

Originally posted by Ginner
Chill out mate. In isolation, making such a mistake hardly requires such a harsh judgement.
Tell that to somebody who has lost a child at their own hands. How much do you know about the two kids who died in the back of their mum's BMW on the stocksbridge bypass?

Originally posted by Ginner
If that be the case then most adults must have experienced miracles making it to adulthood, having been blessed with parents who never made a single mistake during their upbringing.
Some actions have irreversible consequences. Fatalities fall into this category.


Originally posted by Ginner
Assuming you've never had a momentary loss of concentration whilst driving, (IMO you'll be very lucky to go through your entire driving life without having a self inflicted icy-fist-in-the-stomach moment), then I hope you don't play any music/radio in the car, or hold a conversation with anyone, cos if you do YOU are not concentrating 100%.
I drive my passengers nuts by not concentrating on the conversation. I often stop mid sentence as the driving decides to occupy more brain cells than I had originally allocated for the activity. I only listen to a CD if phoneboy or Nicklearse are on the radio, but I never change the disc whilst driving. The radio is always on for the traffic news. Yes, Hallam is drivel, but it doesn't require attention


Originally posted by Ginner
I think you're suggesting standards that 99% of drivers don't meet 100% of the time.
I have strong feelings about that too. I lost my best friend in a car accident 2 weeks before his 19th birthday, and my sister is lucky to still be here too.

Originally posted by sillycow
i didn't ask you to judge me so in future keep your mouths shut will ya and do us all a favour you self righteous tossers - i'm sure at some point in your lives you've all done something really stupid that you later regretted .

Perhaps you shouldn't have posted on a public forum then?

And, yes. No doubt we all done something stupid that we regret later, but most of us have the good sense to deal with our mistakes, not whine and try and get out of it on a public forum...

And, as Strix, points out, if you feel your concentration may be lapsing then take corrective action...

If you're tired, pull over for a rest... Stop talking if it's distracting you... Turn off the cd... Pull over if your child is being sick...

It's hardly rocket science, is it? Accidents are caused by carelessness, which is a direct result of lack of concentration. The sooner some people accept that, and stop with the excuses, it'll make the roads safer for everyone else...

Sillycow admits to a momentary loss of concentration whilst driving with a child and you react by saying:
Originally posted by Strix
It'll be a miracle if your child makes it to adulthood the way you're going.
I guess the bit I object to specifically is "..the way you're going..". Your implying sillycow makes a habit of potentially putting the child in danger.
Every parent makes mistakes. Sadly sometimes these prove fatal. But how many parents do you know who have said, "I remember when I nearly dropped him/her on their head as a baby.", or who have stumbled and almost fell when having a child in their arms. Or who have put the shop item back on the shelf and then not immediately been able to sight their kid.
All accidents; all momentary losses of concentration; all could have been fatal/tragic.

Do these isolated incidents mean these people were lucky their children have made it to childhood, given "..the way their parents were going"?. 'Luck' plays a part in all children's upbringing.

Originally posted by Strix
.....I only listen to a CD if phoneboy or Nicklearse are on the radio, but I never change the disc whilst driving....

But you take a second to find the button to swap from radio to CD yes?
IMO no-one is capable of maintaining 100% concentration 100% of the time whilst driving.

Originally posted by Strix
.....I have strong feelings about that too. I lost my best friend in a car accident 2 weeks before his 19th birthday, and my sister is lucky to still be here too.

Do you notice shop signs whilst out driving?; changes in your surroundings ie new buildings? (I won't suggest your concentration has ever been momentarily broken by a good looking woman/bloke walking down the street.. :love: ).

But you listen to CD's. All the above detract from our concentration, and if at that moment the child steps out; the oncoming car overtakes; the car in front slams on his brakes (and pleeeease don't tell me you always keep to your stopping distance) you will be involved in a potentially fatal incident. Just like that. A blink of the eye.

Many of us have lost loved ones in tragic circumstances, and the best we can do is learn from such incidents and try/hope to ensure such events never touch our lives again. But with the best will in the world, no-one is perfect.

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
I for one wish you luck and hope you just get a fine, people on this forum are so bloody high and mighty, far to many horses around here at times, most of them are vey very very high!
:thumbsup:

Fully agreed. See the end of my first post in this thread.
The predictablity of people's reactions bores me beyond words.

Ginner, good luck but you are wasting your time. The air is thin on the top of that horse.
:P

Isn't it interesting how the smallest thing can polarise opinions so extremely, and so quickly.

I can see both sides of this "discussion", and while some may have been overly quick to judge, others are overly quick to defend.

I may be wrong, but I think what got a few people going was the idea that whilst travelling at (less than) 30mph in a perfectly safe manner ;) a distraction from a child would cause an increase in speed of some 25% in around 1 second.

If this is "normal" then travelling a bit slower, so as to anticipate such a problem may be prudent.

Of course no one pays attention 100% of the time, and very few do not speed, and everyone can get caught out, and we should all judge others less, but sillycow did put some ammo on the table, and others used it.

I didn't intend this post to annoy anyone, please take it as intended, and look at the other point of view before flaming anyone.

Originally posted by foo_fighter

I may be wrong, but I think what got a few people going was the idea that whilst travelling at (less than) 30mph in a perfectly safe manner ;) a distraction from a child would cause an increase in speed of some 25% in around 1 second.


:hihi: That's what I was trying to say but you've put it much better.

Originally posted by Miss
Perhaps you shouldn't have posted on a public forum then?

And, yes. No doubt we all done something stupid that we regret later, but most of us have the good sense to deal with our mistakes, not whine and try and get out of it on a public forum...

And, as Strix, points out, if you feel your concentration may be lapsing then take corrective action...

If you're tired, pull over for a rest... Stop talking if it's distracting you... Turn off the cd... Pull over if your child is being sick...

It's hardly rocket science, is it? Accidents are caused by carelessness, which is a direct result of lack of concentration. The sooner some people accept that, and stop with the excuses, it'll make the roads safer for everyone else...


TOO right. :clap:

The moral of the story is don't speed!

Originally posted by Strix
It'll be a miracle if your child makes it to adulthood the way you're going. The sickness couldn't have been brought on by you throwing the car around too fast at all, could it? And letting yourself be distracted in a street full of lampposts is practically suicidal. Please tell us the kid was firmly strapped in the back :mad:

that's a bit harsh

I don't think it's that harsh. I'd say it was firm, but fair.

Originally posted by Ginner
Many of us have lost loved ones in tragic circumstances, and the best we can do is learn from such incidents and try/hope to ensure such events never touch our lives again. But with the best will in the world, no-one is perfect.
So learn. It's the 'it wasn't my fault...' bleat that pi$$es me off, when clearly it was. Irresponsible. End of.

I don't have children, but I do have a dog. I drive with his safety in mind when he's in the car. He cannot stomach roundabouts at the same speed that strapped-in people can, so I take them more slowly.

Negligence/ignorance isn't a defence in court :rant:

And before you start again - the dog travels in a cage

Originally posted by Strix
And before you start again - the dog travels in a cage
Duly noted. Glad to hear it. Can I start again now....
Originally posted by Strix
So learn.
You're now assuming Sillycow hasn't learnt the lesson, and wouldn't be better equipped to deal with such a incident in the car again.
Originally posted by Strix
...It's the 'it wasn't my fault...' bleat that pi$$es me off, when clearly it was. Irresponsible. End of.
I didn't read it as Sillycow was saying it wasn't her fault. She just gave a reason, (daft, stupid, irresponsible - whatever), for why she was caught doing 38mph. I read it that she was concerned it might lead to her losing her job, and did anyone know if, under her circumstances, leniency or an alternative to points is a possibility (cos in it's own right caught speeding at +8mph isn't exactly instant ban territory - and no, before you start again, that doesn't mean I'm condoning speeding at any +mph).

Maybe the query wasn't presented in the best manner.
But by saying "It'll be a miracle if your child makes it to adulthood the way you're going." you've instantly turned her into an unfit mother because of one lapse of concetration.

IMO it's a ridiculously over the top statement :mad: :rant: :mad:

Originally posted by Ginner

You're now assuming Sillycow hasn't learnt the lesson, and wouldn't be better equipped to deal with such a incident in the car again.


Well, she didn't learn her lesson from the first THREE times did she? A safe assumption to be made, IMO. She'll get the book thrown at her ;)

I sometimes get my leg pulled for 'driving too slow' ie, keeping to the speed limit, and it doesn't bother me one bit.

Originally posted by t020
Well, she didn't learn her lesson from the first THREE times did she? A safe assumption to be made, IMO. ... ;)
Originally posted by sillycow
I am down to my last 3 points (as i am in a provisional period i only need 6)
Originally posted by sillycow
i would just like to say that the 3 i had already had were not for speeding

Have you been reading this thread properly mate, or are you in possesion of some information regarding Sillycow's driving record that everyone else isn't?

You still think your assumtion's safe? ;) ;) ;)

Originally posted by Ginner
Have you been reading this thread properly mate, or are you in possesion of some information regarding Sillycow's driving record that everyone else isn't?

You still think your assumtion's safe? ;) ;) ;)

Yes I'd still say it was reasonably safe. They don't dish out points for driving safely, so she clearly hasn't learnt lessons from her past mistake - in this instance, the only prize points make is a nice ban. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Looks like my fellow forummers beat me to it, Ginner.

Originally posted by t020
Well, she didn't learn her lesson from the first THREE times did she? A safe assumption to be made, IMO. She'll get the book thrown at her ;)

Three times? She said 3 points and they weren't for speeding. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by jenniferuk
Three times? She said 3 points and they weren't for speeding. :rolleyes:

Read the thread through and you'll see this had already been pointed out. :rolleyes:

Thanks anyway though. :heyhey:

Originally posted by alchresearch
Why is anyone bothering to help? 38 in a 30 zone is far too fast and if you already have points you should have been more careful. I would debate whether that was an absolute.
What about penistone road, which was designed to be a 40mph road, and is only still a 30mph zone because no-one applied for the upgrade?

Would driving at 38mph on there in the current 30 limit be any more dangerous than doing the same once they get round to making it a 40 limit (which is supposed to be happening some point this decade).

I've been done for speeding once, got 3 points and totally deserved it as I was driving like an idiot at the time. I'm now older (it was about 10 years ago) and hopefully a bit more mature.......

Originally posted by Strix
It'll be a miracle if your child makes it to adulthood the way you're going. The sickness couldn't have been brought on by you throwing the car around too fast at all, could it? And letting yourself be distracted in a street full of lampposts is practically suicidal. Please tell us the kid was firmly strapped in the back :mad:

Are you for ******* real? 38mph in a 30 zone and she's suddenly the worst parent on the planet, give me ******* strength :rolleyes:

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Are you for ******* real? 38mph in a 30 zone and she's suddenly the worst parent on the planet, give me ******* strength :rolleyes: Another loony sheffielder who believes that the speed limit is what's on the sign plus 50% :rolleyes:

Where the hell did this city get it's driving attitude from? :confused:

Where the hell did you get the assumption that someone driving at 38mph is a useless parent?

I got the impression that Strix had her tongue firmly in her cheek. ;)

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Where the hell did you get the assumption that someone driving at 38mph is a useless parent?
Not a useless parent. A danger to themselves and those closest to them. There's a difference.

I'm beginning to believe there should be an element to the driving test that tests people's reactions to distractions/hazzards whilst driving. The current test is purely hit and miss as to how many skills are tested.

I know somebody who failed one test by slowing down when passing a slip rd onto a dual carraigeway and nearly being mushed by a bus. If the bus hadn't been there, she'd have passed her test, but would never have learned that it's the responsibility of the joining traffic to match it's speed to the road it's joining.

She began her (eventual) driving career with loads of motorway driving, so this mistake could have been far more serious if it had not been picked up at this point.

Of course, this idea would have to be implemented in a virtual driving certre, but driving today is not what the highway code was originally written to cope with.

Originally posted by Strix
Not a useless parent. A danger to themselves and those closest to them. There's a difference.

I'm beginning to believe there should be an element to the driving test that tests people's reactions to distractions/hazzards whilst driving. The current test is purely hit and miss as to how many skills are tested.

I.

isnt that what the emergency stop is for?

Well that and the hazard perception test that was brought in over 2 years ago iirc althought to be fair it's more to do with picking up on hazards before they happen I think.

Originally posted by nightrider
isnt that what the emergency stop is for?

Do you think Sillycow is still reading?

I didn't think there was an 'emergency accelerate' as part of anydriving course or test :hihi:

hi all i think i have been flashed by a camera in my local area on my motorbike, i am only 16 and therefor can only get 6 points. when i got flashed i saw it in my mirror so i looked at my speedometer and it was at zero so i pulled over and the cable at the front had come out of its fixing. this was probably due to the fact that i went over an unmade road and the cable became undone. i had no i dea i was over the limit. but i know i have been cought, all i need to know is what do i have to do to get this done. like how long do i have to pay the fine, what is the fine?

..... but i know i have been caught, all i need to know is what do i have to do to get this done. like how long do i have to pay the fine, what is the fine?If you've been caught, you'll receive notification in the post asking you to confirm that you were the driver of the vehicle at the time, within 28 days or they assume it anyway.
That will be followed by a fixed penalty notice, 3points and £60 fine, which you either pay within the following 28days or take it to court if you think defence is a possibility.

Sadly, I'm typing from recent experience :blush: I was caught at 36mph on a totally deserted road, driving to the Children's Hospital in response to an urgent call-out at 1am and even that wasn't considered a good enough reason for mitigation.

ps In case you're wondering, I'm not bitching about it, just rueful

thanks for that :) , so i when i get the letter i have 28 days to pay the £60. ok thanks for your help:D

thanks for that :) , so i when i get the letter i have 28 days to pay the £60. ok thanks for your help:D
Not quite, you have 28 days to send back the first letter saying who was driving (Notice of Intended Prosecution), then get the fine, then more time to pay it...