I know this is a bit of a generalisation, but I'm beginning to think that the area's most obnoxious people prefer to travel by train. I was on a train to Sheffield last week, sitting near to a couple I would say were in early middle age. The female, who looked a little like an older version of one of the fat slags in the Viz comic, got up to go to the loo. She didn't realise it was already occupied and tried to force the door. Her partner said it must be occupied. Someone else said that they saw a man go in. Her response was to say. 'I bet its somebody w*****g in there. She started banging on the door. Her partner, obviously somewhat embarrassed, told her to wait and to stop using such language. Her response was to say ‘I bet he's got a tart in there with him and she's ******* him’. Her partner advised her to try another loo in the next carriage. She went off and came back saying that was occupied too. Her partner then said perhaps the guy is sick in there, be patient. She went to the door again and said:: ‘you may be right. It stinks – I can smell the s**t from here’. After other choice words from her in the same vein, the guy in the loo emerged and went sheepishly down the corridor. The refined and ladylike example of the fair sex then got to use the loo. I don’t know if this was an example of the rail network’s equivalent of road rage, but these days I seem to encounter more obnoxious people on trains than anywhere else. Has anyone else had similar experiences?

Originally posted by LordChaverly
I don’t know if this was an example of the rail network’s equivalent of road rage, but these days I seem to encounter more obnoxious people on trains than anywhere else. Has anyone else had similar experiences?

There's plenty of non-obnoxious users of public transport - it's just the obnoxious ones who stand out. You say you encounter these people more on the trains than anywhere else, but where else do you go that has an almost unfiltered cross-section of society?

If you want to see the obnoxious and plain weird side of society then try travelling on the National Express coaches. I'm not saying that everyone who rides National Express is weird, but you get to see more than your fair share of eccentricity.

Well, you offer cheap train tickets and you get cheap passengers......

(thats a quote from an anonymous person)

Bring back 3rd class travel :rolleyes:

What became of all the cattle waggons :D

Originally posted by ptigga
If you want to see the obnoxious and plain weird side of society then try travelling on the National Express coaches. I'm not saying that everyone who rides National Express is weird, but you get to see more than your fair share of eccentricity.

I dread to think what the Megabus.com passengers are like then....

I can wholeheartedly agree with LordChaverly. Most who travel on trains are nice people, but there are an unpleasant few!

On my daily commute to Sheffield I've seen many sights I'd rather not remember, the worst possibly being the toilets being out of order on one Central Trains service, so a gang of youths who just "couldn't wait", urinating on the floor in the coridors on the train.

I've also been on several journeys where the British Transport Police have had to remove people from the train on their arrival into Sheffield for giving grief to the conductor.

I know why people prefer their cars!

My favourite are the people who stand with their nose pressed against the door trying to get on the train as soon as it's pulled up. Then simply refuse to get out of the way of the people trying to get off the train. This seems more prevalent at rush hour.

Originally posted by Andy78
My favourite are the people who stand with their nose pressed against the door trying to get on the train as soon as it's pulled up. Then simply refuse to get out of the way of the people trying to get off the train. This seems more prevalent at rush hour.
Similar things happen on Supertram. I once saw a guy struggling to get a pram and a toddler off the tram at Hilsborough Corner. While he was trying to keep his kids in sight, a woman was busy elbowing him out of the way as if he were scum. The man turned to her and asked if she'd let him get off the tram before she shoved past, in responce to which she turned round and hurled a string of abuse at him in, right in front of his kids.

The worst thing was that this wasn't even during the rush hour, the bloody tram was three-quarters empty!

A person abuses a Father and swears in front of his children who he's trying his best to look after...I ask you, is there anything more she could have done to set a bad example?

I was on a train once and a woman pulled the emergancy stop thing - because she had missed her stop!! :loopy:

Originally posted by beckyaa
I was on a train once and a woman pulled the emergancy stop thing - because she had missed her stop!! :loopy:

Hehe, Did she exepct the train to reverse back into the station for her?

Originally posted by beckyaa
I was on a train once and a woman pulled the emergancy stop thing - because she had missed her stop!! :loopy:
When I was at uni I used to travel on the Sheffield to Lincoln train that goes vis Penistone. One day at Barnsley a hoity-toity suit dashed onto the platform and jammed his briefcase in the doors just as they were closing. Luckily for him the doors were designed to open if something was stuck in them and all he got was a b*llocking from the conductor.

To this day I still wish I had been able to watch him run down the platform, clutching the case until he either let go and started cursing or hung on for dear life as the train wound its way towards Brockholmes!

We had booked seats to Edinburgh from Shef last summer. We got on, found our seats, moved past to put luggage in the rack and came back to find someone sat in them.

So I said politely that I think these are our seats, they're reserved.
To which the rather hagged looking couple said "Why did you bloody get up out of them then?" or words to that effect. So I explained that we'd only just got on.

They then proceded to ignore me, until the other half got back from the luggage rack.
They only moved when I said to her "It's okay, they're just collecting their belongings and moving".

So with much huffing and puffing they stomped off, with the guy apparently muttering (I didn't hear this, the other half did) that he should have punched me in the head, see if i'd like my reserved seat then.

I'll sit in a reserved seat myself is no-one is in it, sometimes people just sit somewhere else. But if someone asks you politely to move you should just get on with it and move, afterall they've taken the time to book and you haven't.

Originally posted by ptigga
Hehe, Did she exepct the train to reverse back into the station for her?

I really don't know, she was in the vestibule bit next to my carriage, but I didn't catch much of what was going on, but she was quite hysterical! I don't know what she expected to happen, and I assume she just got off at the next stop! I hope she got a fine though, for improper use.

I regularly encounter the fools who can't work out that the optimum way to board a tram is to let passengers get off and then get on themselves ensuring space for them and their equally cerebally stunted friends.

The main trouble spot for this is Cathedral, I enjoy walking off of the tram right into them as they surge forward, struggling to force me out of the way seeing as I fill a decent proportion of the doorway and don't feel I should have to give way to their bad manners and lack of common sense.

An angry looking chap mouthed obscenities and gesticulated at me for this before now, I blew him a kiss as the door closed - strangely enough he seemed to get even more irate!

Originally posted by Cyclone
We had booked seats to Edinburgh from Shef last summer. We got on, found our seats, moved past to put luggage in the rack and came back to find someone sat in them.

So I said politely that I think these are our seats, they're reserved.
To which the rather hagged looking couple said "Why did you bloody get up out of them then?" or words to that effect. So I explained that we'd only just got on.

They then proceded to ignore me, until the other half got back from the luggage rack.
They only moved when I said to her "It's okay, they're just collecting their belongings and moving".

So with much huffing and puffing they stomped off, with the guy apparently muttering (I didn't hear this, the other half did) that he should have punched me in the head, see if i'd like my reserved seat then.

I'll sit in a reserved seat myself is no-one is in it, sometimes people just sit somewhere else. But if someone asks you politely to move you should just get on with it and move, afterall they've taken the time to book and you haven't.
Big time annoying...

We reserved tickets to travel back from Bristol after the 2000 Glastonbury Festival. Turned up at the station caked in three days worth of festival muck. As the train pulled into the station a delightful chap pulled the reservation ticket out of the top of his seat and pinned it against the window with his middle digit...I wonder still if he was gloating that he'd reserved the seat or telling the person who had to go forth and multiply.

Another time three friends and myself managed to get four seats round a table reserved on a similarly long-haul journey. When we climbed on laden with luggage, we found one woman sat at the table. I produced our tickets, explained the situation and waited while the realisation that I wanted her to get up and move sunk in...did she really expect me to sit in another carriage all the way to Scotland while my other half and our friends shared an awkward journey with her and her four-square achres of newspaper?

Originally posted by Cyclone
I'll sit in a reserved seat myself is no-one is in it, sometimes people just sit somewhere else. But if someone asks you politely to move you should just get on with it and move, afterall they've taken the time to book and you haven't. I agree. If you have an apex ticket, it's really only valid for a specific seat on a specific train, so sitting elsewhere technically invalidates your ticket.

Originally posted by Swan_Vesta
I regularly encounter the fools who can't work out that the optimum way to board a tram is to let passengers get off and then get on themselves ensuring space for them and their equally cerebally stunted friends.

The main trouble spot for this is Cathedral, I enjoy walking off of the tram right into them as they surge forward, struggling to force me out of the way seeing as I fill a decent proportion of the doorway and don't feel I should have to give way to their bad manners and lack of common sense.

An angry looking chap mouthed obscenities and gesticulated at me for this before now, I blew him a kiss as the door closed - strangely enough he seemed to get even more irate!
I hate that stop with a passion...but to this day I have never seen a tram depart before all the passengers either got on or off that wanted to.

There was a bloke sitting in my reserved seat once, and when I said "excuse me, but I'm afraid you are sitting in my seat" he said "that's ok flower, why don't you go and sit over there?" and went back to his newspaper. I don't think he will be making that mistake again. In fact, he decided to go and find a seat in another carriage!
Oh, the joys of trains!
Having said that, I have met some really nice and interesting people on trains. There was one bloke who I sat next to all the way fom Bristol to Sheffield, and we still have chat when bump into each other in town.

Originally posted by beckyaa
There was a bloke sitting in my reserved seat once, and when I said "excuse me, but I'm afraid you are sitting in my seat" he said "that's ok flower, why don't you go and sit over there?" and went back to his newspaper. I don't think he will be making that mistake again. In fact, he decided to go and find a seat in another carriage!
Oh, the joys of trains!
Having said that, I have met some really nice and interesting people on trains. There was one bloke who I sat next to all the way fom Bristol to Sheffield, and we still have chat when bump into each other in town.
I have to confess that one of the most interesting things that I ever saw on a train was back on the Sheffield to Lincoln route, and I was eavesdropping because the conversation was just so fascinating!

The debate was between one of half a dozen Jehovah's Witnesses and one Bhuddist. The latter was sat reading a Bhuddist text and the former tried to engage him in a religious debate as proselytising religious types often do.

The JW challenged the Bhuddist's belief in reincarnation by arguing that all souls are created by god, live, die and rejoin the creator in the afterlife and that a reincarnated soul would loose that identity and therefore belief in such things went against god's will as it denied the identity he had given that soul.

"If you were reincarnated," argued the JW, "you wouldn't be you anymore, does that not worry you?"

"No," replied the Bhuddist, "to think that I have a right to carry on after this incarnation as the person I am now is an act of amazing ego and selfishness. I'm a part of the universe; the universe doesn't revolve around me."

The conversation went on until the JWs left the train and no matter how he came at the argument, the JW couldn't come up with a logical reason that he was right and the Bhuddist was wrong...he left the train with a very puzzled and worried look on his face!

Originally posted by beckyaa
There was a bloke sitting in my reserved seat once, and when I said "excuse me, but I'm afraid you are sitting in my seat" he said "that's ok flower, why don't you go and sit over there?" and went back to his newspaper. I don't think he will be making that mistake again. In fact, he decided to go and find a seat in another carriage!
Oh, the joys of trains!
Having said that, I have met some really nice and interesting people on trains. There was one bloke who I sat next to all the way fom Bristol to Sheffield, and we still have chat when bump into each other in town.


Whats the point in insisting somebody gets up and moves when there are other vacant unreserved seats nearby?

Insisting someone gets up and causing a load of hassle rather than just sitting in the free space just because you want to sit in your particular reserved seat number sounds extremely pedantic to me.

Originally posted by 2fat2run
Whats the point in insisting somebody gets up and moves when there are other vacant unreserved seats nearby?

Insisting someone gets up and causing a load of hassle rather than just sitting in the free space just because you want to sit in your particular reserved seat number sounds extremely pedantic to me.

firstly like someone already said your ticket is technically only valid for that seat.
Secondly, the person sitting in it should have used one of the other 'unreserved' seats if they are present.

And generally it's only when the train is busy that anyone would bother, I probably wouldn't if there were lots of other seats available.

The incident I recounted was on a busy train, and since there were two of us travelling you can imagine the chances of finding two vacant unreserved seats in order to sit together.

Originally posted by 2fat2run
Whats the point in insisting somebody gets up and moves when there are other vacant unreserved seats nearby?

Insisting someone gets up and causing a load of hassle rather than just sitting in the free space just because you want to sit in your particular reserved seat number sounds extremely pedantic to me.

several reasons I can think of, call them pedantic if you will

1) no sitting room
2) preference of seat facing direction
3) not wanting to sit next to some wierdo
4) there are two of you and only single seats available
5) reservation of a table seat
6) general preference... don't care if its pedantic :p

I usually dont sit in my reserved seat, i'll pick one that looks nice, if i can actually find one - but, if someone has a reservation then there shouldn't be that hassle, you should be prepared to move - i always know I am when i sit in a reserved seat.

Bottom line is if you want a guarenteed seat, then reserve one.

Originally posted by Cyclone
firstly like someone already said your ticket is technically only valid for that seat.
Secondly, the person sitting in it should have used one of the other 'unreserved' seats if they are present.

And generally it's only when the train is busy that anyone would bother, I probably wouldn't if there were lots of other seats available.

The incident I recounted was on a busy train, and since there were two of us travelling you can imagine the chances of finding two vacant unreserved seats in order to sit together.


......which is why i quoted an account of a train journey that wasnt busy, and never mentioned your specific case.

Originally posted by 2fat2run
Whats the point in insisting somebody gets up and moves when there are other vacant unreserved seats nearby?

Insisting someone gets up and causing a load of hassle rather than just sitting in the free space just because you want to sit in your particular reserved seat number sounds extremely pedantic to me.

Who said there were other unreserved seats nearby? When you are on a 4 hour+ journey, then I think it is totally reasonable to sit in the seat you have reserved. If I have gone to the trouble of making sure I have a seat, I should be able to sit in it. If the person sitting in my seat wants a particular seat and is not prepared to move, they should have booked one themselves. I can understand why people do sit in other people's reserved seats, often the people who reserve them don't sit there, but if asked politely to move they should be prepared to do so.
If I had gone and sat in someone elses reserved seat, then the problem is just continues.
I also wouldn't have had as much of a problem if the man in question had had a good reason, such as "I am travelling with a young child, would you mind sitting elsewhere so we are able to sit together?"

Originally posted by 2fat2run
......which is why i quoted an account of a train journey that wasnt busy, and never mentioned your specific case.

so you're talking about a hypothetical case where no reasonable person would insist on sitting in the reserved seat.
In which case asking 'what's the point' is kinda pointless as there is clearly no point.

Unless one of the type of seat/seat facing, etc. arguments applies.

Originally posted by beckyaa
Who said there were other unreserved seats nearby?

you implied it when you said the man pointed out an alternative place to sit, ("he said "that's ok flower, why don't you go and sit over there?" and went back to his newspaper."), and you didnt write in your description of the event :

a)it wasnt even a seat he suggested i sit on
b)the seat was occupied
c)the unoccupied seat was reserved

Originally posted by Cyclone
so you're talking about a hypothetical case where no reasonable person would insist on sitting in the reserved seat.
In which case asking 'what's the point' is kinda pointless as there is clearly no point.

Unless one of the type of seat/seat facing, etc. arguments applies.

no. I'm talking about the case i quoted, where apparently somebody did unreasonably insist on sitting on the seat which was numbered on there reservation despite there being an alternative, free, unreserved, comfortable,unsmeared with s**t seat available close by.

Originally posted by 2fat2run
you implied it when you said the man pointed out an alternative place to sit, ("he said "that's ok flower, why don't you go and sit over there?" and went back to his newspaper."), and you didnt write in your description of the event :

a)it wasnt even a seat he suggested i sit on
b)the seat was occupied
c)the unoccupied seat was reserved

I am still not going to say whether the seat was actually a seat, occupied or reserved because it is really not relevant.

If the carriage had been virtually empty, I probably would not have said anything, but if that had been the case, why was he sitting there anyway?!

Some would consider the very act of sitting in a reserved seat to be unreasonable as it shows a disregard for the person who went to the trouble of reserving the seat in the first place...if there were unreserved seats available and you didn't have a reservation, why screw up other people's journeys and sit in a reserved seat at all?

Originally posted by Carmine
Some would consider the very act of sitting in a reserved seat to be unreasonable as it shows a disregard for the person who went to the trouble of reserving the seat in the first place...if there were unreserved seats available and you didn't have a reservation, why screw up other people's journeys and sit in a reserved seat at all?

Maybe the bloke didnt notice it was reserved, maybe he had things on his mind, maybe, jus maybe it doesnt even matter that he sat there.


Jesus, is it really going to screw up your journey that much if you have to sit in another identical seat that isnt the one with YOUR number on it. Is it really going to affect you that much?

If it is, then maybe you're a little too sensitive for public transport an should think of an alternative mode of travel - or you could just lighten up a bit.

Originally posted by 2fat2run
Maybe the bloke didnt notice it was reserved, maybe he had things on his mind, maybe, jus maybe it doesnt even matter that he sat there.


Jesus, is it really going to screw up your journey that much if you have to sit in another identical seat that isnt the one with YOUR number on it. Is it really going to affect you that much?

If it is, then maybe you're a little too sensitive for public transport an should think of an alternative mode of travel - or you could just lighten up a bit.
I was quoting from my own experience here, it was a woman and she was f*cking up my four hour journey by taking up one seat on a table of four that I and my three travelling companions had taken the time and care to reserve well ahead of time. Under those circumstances, when there's a free seat a few rows down and she'd travelling alone, I don't see why I should have to take that seat and be separated from my party for the whole journey.

I think myself that anyone who objects to being turfed out of a reserved seat is the one too sensetive to travel on public transport as they're blatantly ignorant of the most basic tenets of courtesy when travelling in such cramped conditions. A less sensetive person would give up the seat and move down the train...as it's just a seat, after all!

Originally posted by 2fat2run
Maybe the bloke didnt notice it was reserved, maybe he had things on his mind, maybe, jus maybe it doesnt even matter that he sat there.


Jesus, is it really going to screw up your journey that much if you have to sit in another identical seat that isnt the one with YOUR number on it. Is it really going to affect you that much?

If it is, then maybe you're a little too sensitive for public transport an should think of an alternative mode of travel - or you could just lighten up a bit.

2fat2run, are you the sort of person who would just sit in another persons seat for the hell of it and without feeling remorse!? That's the impression I'm getting...
Maybe you need to look a little closer to home for the problem of respecting other peoples decisions to reserve seats etc.

It really is very irritating when people sit in seats that are reserved but not by them. It's fine if the starting station has already been passed, unfortunately many people who do this don't really care either way.
The whole purpose of reserving a seat is to not have the worry of arriving to catch a train and possibly having to stand up for the journey. If you can't be bothered to make the effort to reserve a seat - expect to fight for one or to have to stand up!

If you are too insensitive to use public transport maybe you should start walking.... or you could just show a bit of respect!

Originally posted by Briano
2fat2run, are you the sort of person who would just sit in another persons seat for the hell of it and without feeling remorse!? That's the impression I'm getting...
Maybe you need to look a little closer to home for the problem of respecting other peoples decisions to reserve seats etc.

It really is very irritating when people sit in seats that are reserved but not by them. It's fine if the starting station has already been passed, unfortunately many people who do this don't really care either way.
The whole purpose of reserving a seat is to not have the worry of arriving to catch a train and possibly having to stand up for the journey. If you can't be bothered to make the effort to reserve a seat - expect to fight for one or to have to stand up!

If you are too insensitive to use public transport maybe you should start walking.... or you could just show a bit of respect!
Here, here!

Originally posted by Carmine
Here, here!

I don't think I have anything to add to that either - well said!

Originally posted by Briano
2fat2run, are you the sort of person who would just sit in another persons seat for the hell of it and without feeling remorse!?

No, not at all. I'm the type of person who would go to my reserved seat, see someone on it, see other free seats nearby, an think f**k it, why cause them some hassle, or waste my breathe, or make a t*t of myself by insisting they move 2 yards away to another seat, when i myself could just sit in the nearby seat myself. After all, a seats a seat a seat.

i am beginning to realise why you 2 (carmine, beckyaa) would insist on moving someone though.

Originally posted by 2fat2run
No, not at all. I'm the type of person who would go to my reserved seat, see someone on it, see other free seats nearby, an think f**k it, why cause them some hassle, or waste my breathe, or make a t*t of myself by insisting they move 2 yards away to another seat, when i myself could just sit in the nearby seat myself. After all, a seats a seat a seat.

If a seats a seat a seat, then why does anyone bother reserving a seat in the first place? And why when you reserve a seat are you given a choice about which type seat you would like?

Were you the man who called me "flower" and told me to sit elsewhere??!

Originally posted by 2fat2run
i am beginning to realise why you 2 (carmine, beckyaa) would insist on moving someone though.

Oh yes? please do share this with us...

Originally posted by beckyaa
If a seats a seat a seat, then why does anyone bother reserving a seat in the first place? And why when you reserve a seat are you given a choice about which type seat you would like?

Were you the man who called me "flower" and told me to sit elsewhere??!

no, you dont strike me as someone i'd describe as "flower".

Originally posted by 2fat2run
...or you could just lighten up a bit.

Erm, should we take some notes from you about lightening up?

The fact is simple. If you have a reserved seat, then that is your seat for the journey. Yes most people would just take another unreserved seat if someone was sitting in theirs. If there is not an unreserved seat, then you'd ask the person in your seat to move. Where's the problem? Otherwise the whole system of reserving seats is pointless.

I suggest you chill out a bit before getting banned for being generally offensive after an impressive 13 posts.

Originally posted by Andy78
I suggest you chill out a bit before getting banned for being generally offensive after an impressive 13 posts.

So you're not allowed to have an opinion till you post over 1000 times?
Or is it that the opinion just has to be in-line with the people who have posted 1000 times?
Is this a public forum?
And where have i been offensive?
And what exactly was the point of the first part of your last post?
I am simply questioning the point of moving somebody when other seats ARE available.

Originally posted by 2fat2run
no, you dont strike me as someone i'd describe as "flower".

Lets just hope you are never sitting in my reserved seat then... :twisted: :rant: :nono: :wink:

Originally posted by 2fat2run

I am simply questioning the point of moving somebody when other seats ARE available.

The point is... To point out to this person that there are many seats available and not to sit in the seat 'I' reserved!

If you are happy to let someone sit in your reserved seat without being bothered about it, that's fine. Just don't expect to drag everyone else down to your standards...
Some of us I'm sure, would rather try to teach the person sitting in the reserved seat some manners which have obviously been missed out earlier on in their lives. Then, maybe next time they'll think twice before sitting in someone elses seat. :rant:


(P.S I'm in rant mode today so keep 'em coming) :heyhey:

Originally posted by 2fat2run
So you're not allowed to have an opinion till you post over 1000 times?

Of course you are, but you appeared to jump down someone else's throat after disagreeing with their opinion.

Or is it that the opinion just has to be in-line with the people who have posted 1000 times?

No, that would be silly.

Is this a public forum?

Yes!

And where have i been offensive?

as an example...

no, you dont strike me as someone i'd describe as "flower".

And what exactly was the point of the first part of your last post?

The thread is generally a light hearted discussion about things that bother people on public transport. You suggested that other users should lighten up a bit. You seemed to be getting stressed out with other people's actions, so I was pointing out the irony in your statement. I'm sorry if my sarcasm caused offence.

I am simply questioning the point of moving somebody when other seats ARE available.

Granted! As I mentioned, I'm sure that if a seat was available, most people would take it. However, if all of the other seats are reserved, then it makes sense to move the person out of your seat to avoid further disruption when some one asks you to move out of their reserved seat later on.

Originally posted by beckyaa
Lets just hope you are never sitting in my reserved seat then... :twisted: :rant: :nono: :wink:


dont worry, i always drive.

Originally posted by 2fat2run
dont worry, i always drive.

Lol, well that explains everything.... :P

And you can't drive today anyway coz I'm sitting in the drivers seat... and you haven't even reserved it! :o

Originally posted by Briano
The point is... To point out to this person that there are many seats available and not to sit in the seat 'I' reserved!

If you are happy to let someone sit in your reserved seat without being bothered about it, that's fine. Just don't expect to drag everyone else down to your standards...
Some of us I'm sure, would rather try to teach the person sitting in the reserved seat some manners which have obviously been missed out earlier on in their lives. Then, maybe next time they'll think twice before sitting in someone elses seat. :rant:


(P.S I'm in rant mode today so keep 'em coming) :heyhey:


you're mad if thats really your opinion. Its like havin a go at another driver when you're in a car.
You just dont know who that person is - theres way to many nutters around, its just not worth it.

I travel by train quite regularly & notice a fair number of people asking those sat in the 'wrong' seats to move. Quite often it's because the occupant of the seat is confused about the reservations system & has actually booked a seat with the same number - just in a different coach.

I suppose it'd depend on the situation whether I'd argue the toss over a reserved seat (not had to so far fortunately) but it would rankle as you pay for your reservation even if it is a small amount.

I have seen arguments break out though when trains run late & so no seats have reserved tickets in. The people who try to insist on sitting in the seat they should have been allocated when there's already someone sat in it make my mind boggle. Without fail they seem to think that it's the fault of the other passenger :rolleyes:

you don't pay extra, you normally pay less if you book in advance.

In conclusion, no one has said that they would force someone to move if there were plenty of other seats available, and the example you thought you were using 2fat2run infact had a good reason. Sitting with 3 other people at a table.

It would be a bit odd to make someone move if the rest of carriage were empty, but if you ever travel on a train you'll find out that that is rarely the case.

The situation often occurs when half the carriage has seats that are reserved for passengers joining further down the line.

In the situation where the reservation tickets have not been put out, I would want to use my reserved seat to avoid sitting in a seat reserved by some obnoxious monster who may beat me out of it!

you don't pay extra, you normally pay less if you book in advance.

Apex tickets are cheaper but there is still a booking fee - it states it on the ticket

In the situation where the reservation tickets have not been put out, I would want to use my reserved seat to avoid sitting in a seat reserved by some obnoxious monster who may beat me out of it!

That's exactly what I do try & do ;)

Originally posted by Alex C.


I usually dont sit in my reserved seat, i'll pick one that looks nice, if i can actually find one - but, if someone has a reservation then there shouldn't be that hassle, you should be prepared to move - i always know I am when i sit in a reserved seat.

Bottom line is if you want a guarenteed seat, then reserve one.

Thats the problem Andy, its why people sit in reserved seats. Very often people that reserve either dont turn up for the train or just sit elsewhere.

Do you not feel guilty while sat in a unreserved seat that people struggling with luggage or children or the elderly maybe stumbling around needlessly walking passed your empty reserved seat?

there should be a deposit system for reserving seats and if your ticket isn't endorsed by the guard you cannot claim back your deposit if you do not use your seat.

Also people, remember when you buy a rail ticket, unless you reserve you are paying only for transit to your destination, although sitting is desirable your ticket does not entitle you to a seat.

When I used to travel by train from Sheffield to London on a regular basis, we had a booking agency and seats were automatically reserved.

I can't travel backwards and can only sit in a forward facing seat so that's what I always ask for.

But, I often meet up with other people on the train who are joining at stations further along the line. So whilst it may look pedantic initially, things aren't always as they seem.

What does really wind me up on trains though are those people who spread out all over - laptops, papers, then use their mobile phone on speaker-phone (!!!!?????) when they do that (not too often) I usually laugh really loudly just to wind them up (tee hee)!

I travel by rail quite a lot and I have to admit I often sit in reserved seats. Why? Because half the time I have loads of heavy bags and to be honest I am just looking for the nearest seat because everybody behind me is tutting and trying to push past me. I usually forget to check if the seats are reserved...does that make me some kind of evil monster?

If the person whose seat it was did come along I probably would move, but if there were loads of available seats nearby I would think this person was being pedantic. Sometimes people have more important things on their minds than seat reservations.

Originally posted by Lucy_Smith
I travel by rail quite a lot and I have to admit I often sit in reserved seats. Why? Because half the time I have loads of heavy bags and to be honest I am just looking for the nearest seat because everybody behind me is tutting and trying to push past me. I usually forget to check if the seats are reserved...does that make me some kind of evil monster?

If the person whose seat it was did come along I probably would move, but if there were loads of available seats nearby I would think this person was being pedantic. Sometimes people have more important things on their minds than seat reservations.

I don't think that anyone's arguing that you shouldn't ever sit in a reserved seat. Just that if some one is sat in your seat when there are no other free seats, it's only fair that they move.

Originally posted by Lucy_Smith
I travel by rail quite a lot and I have to admit I often sit in reserved seats. Why? Because half the time I have loads of heavy bags and to be honest I am just looking for the nearest seat because everybody behind me is tutting and trying to push past me. I usually forget to check if the seats are reserved...does that make me some kind of evil monster?

If the person whose seat it was did come along I probably would move, but if there were loads of available seats nearby I would think this person was being pedantic. Sometimes people have more important things on their minds than seat reservations.

no that doesn't make you a monster.
I sat in a reserved seat this morning deliberately, with the intention of moving if I was asked too (i wasn't).
As long as you are prepared to move there is no issue.

There is a further abuse of the reserved seat system which really annoys me.

You notice a 'suit' sat in a reserved seat next to the window (and there's a reserved note sticking up above the headrest). Fine so far.

But, when the train pulls in to a station and there's a crowded platform the 'suit' takes the reserved note and puts it in the seat next to him. It now looks like he's sat in a free seat and there's a reserved space next to him.

Now all you rules abiding folk walk past the 'suit' (you wouldn't stop to check the seat number on the ticket) leaving the suit comfy in 2 sets all the way to London with a smug look on his ugly mug.

I hope all you smug suits don't pick up on this idea - or you may get what he did.

Yikes - this thread really is a lesson in tolerance isn't it?

Generally I agree with the arguement that if you have gone to the trouble of booking a reserved seat and someone else is sat in it, then it is perfectly acceptable to ask them politely to move. I also think it's acceptable to sit in a researved seat because more often than not the person who has reserved it won't show up anyway. If they do show up you should be prepared to show some courtesy and move.

But surely the bottom line is that ALL public transport passengers should learn to be more tolerant? After all, public transport is cramped, slow and inefficient at the best of times, and most of its passengers have got heavy luggage/kids/are travelling with friends/have had a bad day at work/are ****** off with the weather or whatever. We are all human beings at the end of the day, everyone finds trains buses and trams frustrating, but the journey would be a hell of a lot better if people were nicer to each other. It's not a competition.

And finally, yes I do aknowledge that there are some people who are just beyond manners, and those people should be put firmly in their place. I was once on a train with my mum, when some minging trampy-looking alcoholic started making ****ing genstures at us both and grunting in a very ungentlemanly manner! I would say the only researved seat for him should have been on a park bench, or perhaps in a padded cell!!!

Perhaps we should go over the system the French use on their TGVs - reservations are mandatory - if you haven't booked you don't get on!

Originally posted by Andy C
Perhaps we should go over the system the French use on their TGVs - reservations are mandatory - if you haven't booked you don't get on!

Seconded !! ....but it will never happen - the only way the operators seem able to make the system pay is by having over-crowded trains with many passengers having to stand. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Andy C
Perhaps we should go over the system the French use on their TGVs - reservations are mandatory - if you haven't booked you don't get on!

Originally posted by Greybeard
Seconded !! ....but it will never happen - the only way the operators seem able to make the system pay is by having over-crowded trains with many passengers having to stand. :rolleyes:

So how do you guys propose we deal with the person who misses their connection due to a late running incoming service?

Originally posted by nuf_said
There is a further abuse of the reserved seat system which really annoys me.

You notice a 'suit' sat in a reserved seat next to the window (and there's a reserved note sticking up above the headrest). Fine so far.

But, when the train pulls in to a station and there's a crowded platform the 'suit' takes the reserved note and puts it in the seat next to him. It now looks like he's sat in a free seat and there's a reserved space next to him.

Now all you rules abiding folk walk past the 'suit' (you wouldn't stop to check the seat number on the ticket) leaving the suit comfy in 2 sets all the way to London with a smug look on his ugly mug.

I hope all you smug suits don't pick up on this idea - or you may get what he did.

The reservation tickets have a warning on the bottom of them. There's a high fine for tampering with them or removing them. It's something like 50 or 200 quid.

Originally posted by Strix
So how do you guys propose we deal with the person who misses their connection due to a late running incoming service?

Follow the lead of budget airlines and not allow connections.

Originally posted by Andy C
Follow the lead of budget airlines and not allow connections.
I can see the bottom dropping out of first class ticket sales with that sort of nonsense.

Business travel has been the saving grace of the railways (both first and standard class ticket sales). Your proposal would kill that market and only leave budget tickets. The greater attraction for the scum mentioned earlier in this thread, would drive your average customer away too.

Hey, just tarmac the rail network.

I assume you don't travel by train Andy? :suspect: (I mean travel, not stop-hop commuting)

if you read the national rail conditions of carriage a ticket only entitles you to be transported from a to b by whatever means the train compoany deems.All they are legally entitled to do is get you from your where you are going to your destination by any form of transport the train company sees fit.

You DON'T pay for a seat,and seat reservations are free.........it makes me howl with laughter than train companies will give you vouchers for compensation if your seat isn't reserved (after u have reserved it) or you have to stand.......so you actually get compo for something that is free and you havent paid for........only in britain.


The only way to get rid of over crowding is to make every train a compulsory booking til it is full then sell no more tickets.Forget turning up on travelling when you feel like it.That'd shut the moaners up (and YES I've had to endure a 4 hour standing journey too)

Originally posted by semerpus
You DON'T pay for a seat, and seat reservations are free....
Unless you have an Apex or similar, when the two are the same thing, and invalid if separated.

I thought reservations were only free on busy services? When did that change?

And whilst we are all grumbling about reserved seats....

We (including Brude) boarded a train, and in a virtually empty carriage, sat in a reserved seat to best accommodate the dog out of the way of other passengers and the trolley in the middle of the carriage. There is an identical table which was occupied when we boarded, but was later vacated.

The 'owner' of the reserved seat on this occasion turned up, but instead of condescending to speak to us, just loitered in the aisle (adjacent to identical vacant table) until we spoke to her. Her manner was ignorant, so (as we believed to be right) we gave her her seat with no fuss.

We did, however, have the accoutriments of 5 hours worth of travelling strewn about the place, and an inquisitive beagle under the table, so Mr Strix moved only himself to the other table but I and our dog, newspapers, laptop, rubbish and luggage stayed put.

She departed with her pristine outfit covered in little white hairs, and with a mouth like a ducks ar$e. She had ruined her own journey by her own attitude, but she had sat in 'her' seat.

PS. the boot has been on the other foot, but I usually find speaking to the occupant of your seat politely but firmly is the best way forward.

Originally posted by LordChaverly
The female, who looked a little like an older version of one of the fat slags in the Viz comic, got up to go to the loo. She didn't realise it was already occupied and tried to force the door. Her partner said it must be occupied. Someone else said that they saw a man go in. Her response was to say. 'I bet its somebody w*****g in there. She started banging on the door. Her partner, obviously somewhat embarrassed, told her to wait and to stop using such language. Her response was to say ‘I bet he's got a tart in there with him and she's ******* him’. Her partner advised her to try another loo in the next carriage. She went off and came back saying that was occupied too. Her partner then said perhaps the guy is sick in there, be patient. She went to the door again and said:: ‘you may be right. It stinks – I can smell the s**t from here’. After other choice words from her in the same vein, the guy in the loo emerged and went sheepishly down the corridor. The refined and ladylike example of the fair sex then got to use the loo. I don’t know if this was an example of the rail network’s equivalent of road rage, but these days I seem to encounter more obnoxious people on trains than anywhere else. Has anyone else had similar experiences?
One of the last train journeys I made was to Scarborough to meet my wife & son. The train was heaving - standing room only & there were San & Tray from Viz with their 2 little kids sat accross the isle from me. For the whole journey they both proceded to get drunker & louder & more obnoxious. The whole carriage was taken over by their verbal miasma. When I finally got off at my station my migrain was so bad I felt sick. I had to find a shop that sold paracetamol before I could go find my family. It was awfull.

If only I'd had a gun :mad: :x :twisted:

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
If only I'd had a gun :mad: :x :twisted:

and that line has your signature underneath it?

Yep - a gun would be quick & painless....
They actually deserved poisoning, hanging, drawing & quartering! :thumbsup:

When I have to travel by train with Max my dog I always try to reserve a seat with a table, it gives me slightly more leg room and max can curl up comfortably. What really got my goat was the pair of mid twenties slobs who sat across from me. They'd brought enough food and drink to feed the entire carriage and the table was fairly rapidly covered in lots of bits of puff pastry, bread crumbs , a few sad bits of tomato that the woman removed from her sandwich in mid chew, and then of course a fine film of fizzy pop. They also very kindly made a nice neat collection of all their screwed up wrappers that didn't stay in a neat collection for long. The final straw was when they realised there was a dog under my seat and part of the table as the woman started grumbling saying dogs were dirty and smelly and shouldn't be allowed to travel with the passengers but should go in the guards van, boy was i tempted to suggest she and her partner should go and travel in the cattle truck with the other pigs.

I think many of the stories related on this thread about rail passengers tell us a lot about human nature and about how thin the veneer of civilized conduct can be.

Firstly, they tell us about the innate human instinct to defend our territory in this case passenger seats and personal space on trains. Robert Ardrey the anthropologist developed a theory called the territorial imperative – i.e. about the animal instinct to mark out and protect territory – as in right of way disputes in road rage cases. A train is a very confined space, so probably the power of this instinct is exacerbated. On trains our territory can also be invaded by the noise from mobile phones, walkmans and noisy, foul-mouthed passengers.

Secondly, they tell us about competition for limited resources – i.e. for train seats and the loos. Its similar to the road rage you read about over car parking spaces.

Thirdly, they tell us about the effect of crowded environments on human behaviour. Its well known that the restricted movement people have in crowded places is likely to make them irritable and in some cases prone to verbal and even physical violence. I think the fact that the fact that the UK is becoming ever more crowded (particularly noticeable in road and rail travel) is at least partly responsible for the increase in rage phenomena of various kinds

Through our upbringing and socialisation, most of us of course manage to control our basic instincts most of the time. But its never too far below the surface. Its not class-related either. One of the worst examples of the phenomena I witnessed was at the Royal National Opera house in London, when during the interval two guys with plummy accents, posh suits and bow ties almost came to blows over a place in the ice cream queue

I find the personal space thing quite interesting. I think it adjusts for the environment we are in. For example, if you were reasonably busy bar, you'd probably be comfortable with the amount of people in your vicinity. However, if you were in an empty room on your own and someone else wandered in and just stood there, you'd probably find it a bit uncomfortable. Even more so if you are in a lift with one other person. I don't know if it's just me but I find that situation really uncomfortable and generally look down at my shoes.

Oops, a bit off topic here. :)

It's not just the personal space though. On a journey down to london, I find the space in a seat is just to small. I would like room to put my drinks/food down and have space to open a newspaper and to stretch.

To be comfortable, I prefer either to be sitting with family/friends or when alone I prefer an empty seat beside me. Whilst I will never refuse or obstruct anyone who would want to take such a seat, I will try and put folk off by leaving a coat on it or suchlike.

Originally posted by cgksheff
It's not just the personal space though. On a journey down to london, I find the space in a seat is just to small. I would like room to put my drinks/food down and have space to open a newspaper and to stretch.

To be comfortable, I prefer either to be sitting with family/friends or when alone I prefer an empty seat beside me. Whilst I will never refuse or obstruct anyone who would want to take such a seat, I will try and put folk off by leaving a coat on it or suchlike.

that is personal space, and you'd like more of it than the confines of the chair provide.

National Express have recently started selling 2 seats to passengers. You purchase your normal seat and for 50% extra the seat next to it. Guaranteed personal space for a small extra price...

Originally posted by Strix
I can see the bottom dropping out of first class ticket sales with that sort of nonsense.

Business travel has been the saving grace of the railways (both first and standard class ticket sales). Your proposal would kill that market and only leave budget tickets. The greater attraction for the scum mentioned earlier in this thread, would drive your average customer away too.

Hey, just tarmac the rail network.

I assume you don't travel by train Andy? :suspect: (I mean travel, not stop-hop commuting)

That wasn't a serious comment - doh! Although it does make an interesting comparison...

Originally posted by Cyclone
We had booked seats to Edinburgh from Shef last summer. We got on, found our seats, moved past to put luggage in the rack and came back to find someone sat in them.

So I said politely that I think these are our seats, they're reserved.
To which the rather hagged looking couple said "Why did you bloody get up out of them then?" or words to that effect. So I explained that we'd only just got on.

They then proceded to ignore me, until the other half got back from the luggage rack.
They only moved when I said to her "It's okay, they're just collecting their belongings and moving".

So with much huffing and puffing they stomped off, with the guy apparently muttering (I didn't hear this, the other half did) that he should have punched me in the head, see if i'd like my reserved seat then.

I'll sit in a reserved seat myself is no-one is in it, sometimes people just sit somewhere else. But if someone asks you politely to move you should just get on with it and move, afterall they've taken the time to book and you haven't. Those reserved seats are a pain in the backside.
I can understand why people book them but on my trips to London last week I had a real ballache trying to find a seat due to them all being reserved.
Now it must be hell for a family trying to get seats to sit together.
It should be first come first serve and end this mysery trying to find a seat without lugging all your luggage to add to the mayhem.

Originally posted by Cycleracer
Those reserved seats are a pain in the backside.
I can understand why people book them but on my trips to London last week I had a real ballache trying to find a seat due to them all being reserved.
Now it must be hell for a family trying to get seats to sit together.
It should be first come first serve and end this mysery trying to find a seat without lugging all your luggage to add to the mayhem.

maybe you should have thought ahead and booked one for yourself.

It's a bit harsh if your not getting on at the first stop, even though you know you will travel in advance you can't get a seat if 'first come first served' was the only option.

Reserved seats are not a bind, I was on aflight from Aberdeen one day and a woman was sat in my seat. when i asked her to change seats she it does'nt matter where you sit. I said it does becuase if the plane crahes they can identify your body from the seat number. she got up and sat in her own seat

Sorry about the miss spelling . Brain works fater than fingers

The moral is READ then Send

Originally posted by Andy C
That wasn't a serious comment - doh! Although it does make an interesting comparison...

Sheesh, I thought it was odd. :suspect: I had to check twice that it was written by you, and I hadn't muddled my Andies up :D

(That's interesting. Is that the correct spelling for the plural of 'Andy' :suspect: )

Originally posted by cgksheff
It's not just the personal space though. On a journey down to london, I find the space in a seat is just to small. I would like room to put my drinks/food down and have space to open a newspaper and to stretch.
You'll be requiring a first class ticket then?

Perhaps it's about time train design moved on. Most of us feel uncomfortable next to a stranger, but that's probably because more and more people get away with being obnoxious, so persist in being so.

Maybe being a Scouser means I don't have difficulty talking to strangers?

"PLEASE REMOVE YOUR BAG FROM THAT SEAT" usually works if somebody is being stubbornly anti-social on a busy train :D

Originally posted by prioryx
Reserved seats are not a bind, I was on aflight from Aberdeen one day and a woman was sat in my seat. when i asked her to change seats she it does'nt matter where you sit. I said it does becuase if the plane crahes they can identify your body from the seat number. she got up and sat in her own seat

Nice one Priory :thumbsup: I'll have to remember that one :D

got on a train yesterday, i was at the back of the queue for the door (that always happens)
People at the front started pushing on whilst people were still getting off.
They stopped when some bloke shouted "COULD YOU LET US GET OFF THE BLOODY TRAIN FIRST".

I was quite amused.

Also had to move seats this morning, thought i'd sat in the unreserved one, but i got them muddled up, damned electronic scrolling thingies on virgin trains.

Originally posted by Cyclone
...... damned electronic scrolling thingies on virgin trains.
They're so busy being polite, that you need to spend far too long blocking the aisle reading them whilst people stand tutting behind you.

Why don't they just say 'unreserved' and skip the 'this seat is..' bit?

My dad told me a funny story once. He was on his way back from Southampton on a late night train. He was the only person in the carriage. At about 2am some random guy wanders into the carriage and sits opposite him even though he could have had any seat he fancied. After 5 minutes he asked my dad if he minded swapping seats because he didn't like facing backwards. What an odd bod :confused:

Originally posted by Andy78
My dad told me a funny story once. He was on his way back from Southampton on a late night train. He was the only person in the carriage. At about 2am some random guy wanders into the carriage and sits opposite him even though he could have had any seat he fancied. After 5 minutes he asked my dad if he minded swapping seats because he didn't like facing backwards. What an odd bod :confused:

Haha, that's just plain weird!!

Originally posted by beckyaa
Haha, that's just plain weird!! He was probably from Glasgow. They're more sociable up there. My mum used to get a bus into town and if she was the first person on the top deck, the second person would invariably sit next to her. It's regarded as the polite thing to do.

Originally posted by Carmine
I to this day I have never seen a tram depart before all the passengers either got on or off that wanted to.
My friend had a real fright one day when her 6 year old daugter got on the tram but she found herself pushed back by a group rushing to get off a the last moment.
The tram doors closed and the driver set off with my friend running along side it waving her arms and screaming. Another passenger saw what was happening and pulled the emergeny stop. The driver claimed he had checked his mirrors as he set off but had somehow not seen a fratically screaming woman.

I got a virgin voyager from sheffield to birmingham new street 3 weeks ago. I had booked my tickets in advance and therefore reserved my seats. When I got to my seats there was someone else sat there so i went and saw the conductor to make sure I wasnt mistaken

I asked the two politeley if one could move as I had reserved that seat at first they refused till i pointed out my name was scrolling above the seat. Then some eejit in the seats behind made some comment about me being on a virgin train and not midland mainline (I had a midland mainline leaflet in my hand) and that I was a "tw*t" anyway the people moved i sat down and all the way to biirmingham I heard ramdom comments like "huh he thinks hes better than us"

If I hadn't booked the tickets or been really arsey about the two being in my seat I could understand it but I didn't

Originally posted by cgksheff
It's not just the personal space though. On a journey down to london, I find the space in a seat is just to small. I would like room to put my drinks/food down and have space to open a newspaper and to stretch.

To be comfortable, I prefer either to be sitting with family/friends or when alone I prefer an empty seat beside me. Whilst I will never refuse or obstruct anyone who would want to take such a seat, I will try and put folk off by leaving a coat on it or suchlike.

This is why I drive. I can stick my paper, iPod, bottle of juice, crisps, whatever I have, in various cubbies around the car, or on the seat next to me.

I can recline my seat, open the window/sunroof, adjust the temperature inside the car, pick my own music and the volume I play it at, which means I can sing aloud without looking and feeling like a fool.

I don't have to wait to get out of the car, or wait to get in either. I don't get random weirdos sitting next to me and I can set off when I choose. I arrive at my destination, as opposed to the town of my destination. My seat is reserved as well.

This isn't luxury, its a cheapo Fiesta.

To be honest, when it goes according to plan I actually quite like travelling by train, especially if there aren't too many changes. As long as it is not too busy, and I can sit in my reserved seat, and the trains aren't delayed I'd rather do that than drive. It's a pain when you have loads of luggage, but I like being able to put my headphones on and settle down with a book for a few hours, or have a bit of a nap. I'd rather be doing that than have to sit in a car and concentrate on driving, even if I don't get to travel door to door.

Originally posted by dinp
This is why I drive. I can stick my paper, iPod, bottle of juice, crisps, whatever I have, in various cubbies around the car, or on the seat next to me.

I can recline my seat, open the window/sunroof, adjust the temperature inside the car, pick my own music and the volume I play it at, which means I can sing aloud without looking and feeling like a fool.

I don't have to wait to get out of the car, or wait to get in either. I don't get random weirdos sitting next to me and I can set off when I choose. I arrive at my destination, as opposed to the town of my destination. My seat is reserved as well.

This isn't luxury, its a cheapo Fiesta.

But the risk of injury from other road users is higher, the contents of your passenger seat should stay there unless you're parked (vis that apple case), you arrive worn out, and if you break down you have to stand in the rain until the AA arrive.

The roads are hardly free from £uckwits either! Don't think a fiesta is going to save you from manglement when a volvo or 4x4 stoves into you with no warning coz the occupant is too busy wresling with his lunch :D

You have to concentrate for the entire journey, you can't read a book or take a nap, you'll be stuck in that traffic jam for ages..

There are pro's and con's to both ways. Although given the choice I normally drive as it's quicker.

Originally posted by dinp
This is why I drive. I can stick my paper, iPod, bottle of juice, crisps, whatever I have, in various cubbies around the car, or on the seat next to me.

I can recline my seat, open the window/sunroof, adjust the temperature inside the car, pick my own music and the volume I play it at, which means I can sing aloud without looking and feeling like a fool.

I don't have to wait to get out of the car, or wait to get in either. I don't get random weirdos sitting next to me and I can set off when I choose. I arrive at my destination, as opposed to the town of my destination. My seat is reserved as well.

This isn't luxury, its a cheapo Fiesta.

Originally posted by Cyclone
There are pro's and con's to both ways. Although given the choice I normally drive as it's quicker.

That depends on where you're going.

Scotland at 125mph anybody? :D Sandwiches served at your seat, and you can go to the toilet without stopping :hihi:

Originally posted by Cyclone
You have to concentrate for the entire journey, you can't read a book or take a nap, you'll be stuck in that traffic jam for ages..

There are pro's and con's to both ways. Although given the choice I normally drive as it's quicker.

I like to see where im going though, concentrating means I see more so if I go to the same place again, i'll remember the way.

I can read a book in bed and daytime naps make me cranky. Driving is the answer :D

Originally posted by Strix
That depends on where you're going.

Scotland at 125mph anybody? :D Sandwiches served at your seat, and you can go to the toilet without stopping :hihi:

should have said for my regular journey to brum and back. Quicker in the car, but not by much.

dinp - I'm sick and tired of driving. Up and down the M1, it's a nice break to go on the train actually. But then i've been doing this 100 mile commute for nearly 2 years now.