Robin Hood is from Loxley, Sheffield, Yorkshire!

If you agree with this statement, add weight to the argument by joining this facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6704688991&ref=mf

All the evidence is here: http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/KIRK6479/

Do you think that Nottingham stole him as their own folk hero becasue that have nothing else to shout about... well, not as much other stuff as Sheffield has anyway?

Cheers.

Robin Hood is from Loxley, Sheffield, Yorkshire!

If you agree with this statement, add weight to the argument by joining this facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6704688991&ref=mf

All the evidence is here: http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/KIRK6479/

Do you think that Nottingham stole him as their own folk hero becasue that have nothing else to shout about... well, not as much other stuff as Sheffield has anyway?

Cheers.

Not to sure what you are trying to say I dont want to go to facebook and add weight to the argument.
If you have a point why not post it when all said and done this a forum not a link to other sites. If you check the posts last year on this forum, you will find quite a lot of information on this subject.
Huntingdon in York and Cambridge have tried to claim him, because he was the Earl of Huntingdon.

Well, as I was born and raised in Nottinghamshire this was always the case.

It's just that the Sherrif of Nottingham was in....Nottingham, and Sherwood Forest stretched down that way, so although the guy was absed up here, whilst he was here as Earl of Loxley he was a softie. It was only when he roughed it in Sherwood and whupped some Sherrif bottom in Nottinghamshire that he became famous.

Anyway - Christ, does it really matter? :)

Well, as I was born and raised in Nottinghamshire this was always the case.

It's just that the Sherrif of Nottingham was in....Nottingham, and Sherwood Forest stretched down that way, so although the guy was absed up here, whilst he was here as Earl of Loxley he was a softie. It was only when he roughed it in Sherwood and whupped some Sherrif bottom in Nottinghamshire that he became famous.

Anyway - Christ, does it really matter? :)

Well said shall we put this to bed and leave the myth where it belongs A happy New Year to you

Sorry,
I would like to vote for that as I used to be a regular Loxley visitor.
But I am certainly not joining a facebook group.,
My facebook account is for friends and family only I don't want lots of messages from strangers all the time.

Why don't you just make a poll ?

Sorry,
I would like to vote for that as I used to be a regular Loxley visitor.
But I am certainly not joining a facebook group.,
My facebook account is for friends and family only I don't want lots of messages from strangers all the time.

Why don't you just make a poll ?

I used to live between Loxley and Stannington and I also dont want a site as facebook to try and open the argument of the History of Robin Hood

Sorry,
But I am certainly not joining a facebook group.,
My facebook account is for friends and family only I don't want lots of messages from strangers all the time.


Lol, why are people so scared of Facebook? Joining a group doesn't give anyone access to your details, its just FUN !!!! Remember fun?? :)

Oh, and Little John is buried in Hathersage churchyard.... yeah.

I hope Robin Hood is from Loxley,Sheffield, as I live 5 minutes away from where he used to live. :D:D

You can always join the debate in the Blue Boar Inn. :)

http://theblueboarinnrobinhooddiscussions.yuku.com/

Give Robert Henshaw some stick. Robert is from Nottingham and it was his uncle Jim Lees who popularised Nottingham and stole Robin Hood from Yorkshire.

Oh, and Little John is buried in Hathersage churchyard.... yeah.

That's right - and he's also buried in several other places...:P

If Robin Hood actually existed, the chances are that he was a Yorkshireman (to judge from recent research, the evidence of medieval ballads etc.) Having been born at Woodland View, within a decent bowshot of Loxley, I would be only too willing to accept him as a "compatriot". But personally I prefer to think of his fictional alter egos, especially as played by Richard Greene - see http://www.robinhood-tv.co.uk/

That's right - and he's also buried in several other places...:P

If Robin Hood actually existed, the chances are that he was a Yorkshireman (to judge from recent research, the evidence of medieval ballads etc.) Having been born at Woodland View, within a decent bowshot of Loxley, I would be only too willing to accept him as a "compatriot". But personally I prefer to think of his fictional alter egos, especially as played by Richard Greene - see http://www.robinhood-tv.co.uk/

Where else is Little John burried?

Where else is Little John burried?

This is what happens when unproved things are written down, people start to believe it.

This is what happens when unproved things are written down, people start to believe it.

Are you saying there never was "John the Little" or Robin Hood?

Are you saying there never was "John the Little" or Robin Hood?

No, just that you have not proved there was, yet as in the OP,

All the evidence is here: http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/KIRK6479/

people start to think that it's proven.

No, just that you have not proved there was, yet as in the OP,

All the evidence is here: http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/KIRK6479/

people start to think that it's proven.

Then who was Robert Dore of Wadsley otherwise known as Robin Hood.

From a pardon in York.

Then who was Robert Dore of Wadsley otherwise known as Robin Hood.

From a pardon in York.

A possible candidate, have you tried to prove Robert Dore Wasn't.

A possible candidate, have you tried to prove Robert Dore Wasn't.

If you want to make yourself useful you can try and find something out about him please.

I used to live in Edwinstowe, Nottinghamshire. The village church, on the very edge of Sherwood Forest, proclaims on its notice board that the church is where 'Robin Hood and Maid Marion were reputed to have married'.

Doncaster has mis-appropriated the name of Robin Hood for its airport, so can we just accept that Robin Hood - whether he came from Loxley in Sheffield or not - is for ever properly associated with.... Nottinghamshire!

Robin Hood is a folklore figure and not real history. He may have existed, or maybe not. There are theories that the stories are an amalgamation of tales that could have roots in more than one historical figure.

It seems a bit pointless to argue over exactly where he came from using modern administrative boundaries. One thing is for sure, he didn't come from South Yorkshire as it wasn't invented until 1974.

Robin not real? He's very real.....he came to California in 1938 to be an advisor on the film of his life story........they filmed it near here........in fact my local bar in North Hollywood is named after him.....The Robin Hood Pub.
But where was he from?....just the other day I was sat having drink with Hereward the Wake,Eustace the Black Monk and Fulk Fitzwarin.......I asked about Robin....
.....he's getting a little older now...........he's working out of Malibu these days........robbing rich tourists and smuggling Hendersons Relish into California.
Sheffield?....Nottingham?........sorry lads......he's from Leeds.

I used to live in Edwinstowe, Nottinghamshire. The village church, on the very edge of Sherwood Forest, proclaims on its notice board that the church is where 'Robin Hood and Maid Marion were reputed to have married'.

Doncaster has mis-appropriated the name of Robin Hood for its airport, so can we just accept that Robin Hood - whether he came from Loxley in Sheffield or not - is for ever properly associated with.... Nottinghamshire!

Place names in the Rhymes of Robin Hood are: Wentbridge, Barnsdale, Blyth, Doncaster, Kirklees, the Calder Valley, York, Watling Street, the Sayles near Barnsdale and also the nearby Robin Hood's Well with a Roman Road leading directly from there through Doncaster and Templeborough along Long Causway to Hathersage and Brough. This was Robin Hood's area of activity and the Robin Hood Airport is correctly named.

Nottingham’s only connection with Robin Hood is through the sheriff. Robin’s wedding at Edwinstow is a later fabrication perpetuated by Hollywood.

Robin not real? He's very real.....he came to California in 1938 to be an advisor on the film of his life story........they filmed it near here........in fact my local bar in North Hollywood is named after him.....The Robin Hood Pub.
But where was he from?....just the other day I was sat having drink with Hereward the Wake,Eustace the Black Monk and Fulk Fitzwarin.......I asked about Robin....
.....he's getting a little older now...........he's working out of Malibu these days........robbing rich tourists and smuggling Hendersons Relish into California.
Sheffield?....Nottingham?........sorry lads......he's from Leeds.

Nice one, and you may be right when you mention Leeds, it is right there near Barnsdale, Wakefield, the Calder Valley, York, Wattling Street etc. and also Wetherby is in the picture as well and that isn't very far from Leeds either.

If you want to make yourself useful you can try and find something out about him please.

After a quick shuffle through what you have written it would be a pointless exercise.

Anyway - Christ, does it really matter? :)

Baring in mind the beneficial effect Robin Hood has on Nottinghamshires tourist industry then yes it could:D

However I think we've lost the opportunity of wrestling back the figure of Robin Hood. As a Loxley resident this isn't going to stop me from continuing to point out that many people believe Robin has his roots in Yorkshire and not Nottinghamshire.

After a quick shuffle through what you have written it would be a pointless exercise.

What I find disappointing is that so often people are quick to criticize and find fault but are never prepared to help in a positive way.

What I find disappointing is that so often people are quick to criticize and find fault but are never prepared to offer positive help.

Grahame it reads like you are plucking names to suit the occasion, it's not being critical of your effort.

Robert Dore of Wadsley for instance doesn't immediately link him to the Wadsley family, have you substantiated this.

Grahame it reads like you are plucking names to suit the occasion, it's not being critical of your effort.

Robert Dore of Wadsley for instance doesn't immediately link him to the Wadsley family, have you substantiated this.

Can I point out that this is the only pardon for an outlaw with the alias Robin Hood that has ever been found.

I cannot find any information on the internet about this man other than the pardon we have. It sounds to me as though his name was Lord Robert Dore and he was from Wadsley?

I don't have access to the university library and I cannot read Latin so I am a bit stuck.

One person i do know fm Loxley is my niece, i get a Christmas card every yr,but wait a mo on second thoughts I've never been to Loxley in my life Hmmm

Didnt Robin Hood fire an arrow on his death bed and say "where ever this arrow lands burry me" ..So they buried him in the waredrobe! :D:D:D

Used to live in Loxley and never heard of any connection with Robin Hood.
Thought the spelling of "Loxley" in the Robin Hood legend was "Locksley".
Used to do a lot of Archery as a sport and plenty of people researched the story of Robin Hood. It's generally accepted that there were dozens of Robin Hoods, a robber wearing a hood, in the Barnsdale area of Yorkshire which was then covered by Sherwood Forest.
Maid Marion doesn't exist in any of the old ballads and the Major Oak wouldn't have been anywhere big enough in those days for anyone to hide inside, if it was even growing then at all.

Why not just leave it where it is?
A superb story, great for the film and tourist industries and something for the kids to enjoy playing at.

Used to live in Loxley and never heard of any connection with Robin Hood.

Well, I lived in Loxley and had many a pint in the local Robin Hood Inn! :)

Maid Marion doesn't exist in any of the old ballads and the Major Oak wouldn't have been anywhere big enough in those days for anyone to hide inside, if it was even growing then at all.


It seems to be generally accepted that both Maid Marian and Friar Tuck are completely fictitious.

Why not just leave it where it is? A superb story, great for the film and tourist industries and something for the kids to enjoy playing at.

Couldn't agree more. There may be historical evidence for a local outlaw whose name or nickname was Robin Hood or something similar, but any historical facts that might be unearthed are - to the man in the street - of less importance than the folk-hero legend, the benevolent principle of robbing the rich to help the poor etc. (Robin Hood was a popular figure in Soviet Russia, apparently as an early advocate of socialism!!). It's a good story - historians may try to identify the man, but the legend is more important.

[QUOTE=hillsbro;2994195]Well, I lived in Loxley and had many a pint in the local Robin Hood Inn! :)


Apologies hillsbro, by connection I was referring to some genuine artefact as opposed to folklore documentation or archeological evidence.
The myth / legend / aura of Robin Hood is worldwide, by giving it concrete credibility this will all be lost.

Then who was Robert Dore of Wadsley otherwise known as Robin Hood.

From a pardon in York.

Give us a clue Grahame, what date was the pardon?

Give us a clue Grahame, what date was the pardon?

This is off my web site, perhaps it could be written a bit better?

"Robert Dore of Wadsley was known as Robin Hood in real life. The Wadsley family owned Wadsley Common, Loxley Common and Loxley Chase which are all in Hallamshire exactly where Roger Dodsworth and the Sloane Manuscript place him. He was outlawed for his involvement in the Poll Tax Riots in York and was pardoned in 1382AD. The mayor of York was the hated John Gisburne and interestingly Robin Hood’s adversary in the rhymes was called Guy of Gisborn. (See the page on the Poll Tax Riots.)

Living at the same time was William Langland the author of Piers Plowman who provided the first ever-literary reference to Robin Hood. Langland died in 1400AD, Robin Hood was pardoned in 1382AD, and the first Robin Hood ballad which was Robin Hood and the Monk was published only fifty years later indicating perhaps a heroic figure who was still alive in popular memory?"

Used to live in Loxley and never heard of any connection with Robin Hood.
Thought the spelling of "Loxley" in the Robin Hood legend was "Locksley".
Used to do a lot of Archery as a sport and plenty of people researched the story of Robin Hood. It's generally accepted that there were dozens of Robin Hoods, a robber wearing a hood, in the Barnsdale area of Yorkshire which was then covered by Sherwood Forest.
Maid Marion doesn't exist in any of the old ballads and the Major Oak wouldn't have been anywhere big enough in those days for anyone to hide inside, if it was even growing then at all.

Why not just leave it where it is?
A superb story, great for the film and tourist industries and something for the kids to enjoy playing at.

This is something I posted on another forum. I agree with you about Maid Marion who appears to be a later invention and there has always been problems with Triar Tuck due to the fact they did not arrive in England until after we think Robin Hood was active, but I found this in an old Nottingham pamphlet kindly provided by one of our members and this is what it says about Friars: -

Near Stanage Pole is 'Robin Hoods Cave.' It overlooks Hathersage where Little John is buried. In Hathersage itself is 'Hood Valley' and 'Hood Brook.' Nearby are 'Robin Hood's Moss,' 'Robin Hood's Table,' 'Robin Hood's Chair,' and 'Robin Hood's Stoop' where tradition says Little John chose the site of his grave himself with an arrow shot from there. 'Robin Hood's Cross' marked the boundary of three nearby villages and Offerton was leased to Ralph Eyre in 1473 by the Abbot and Convent of St. Mary's, Rufford, in Sherwood Forest, the Cross being mentioned in a document of that date. The abbey was founded around 1147AD and the boundary stone is one of the earliest place names associated with Robin Hood.

The straight road from Stanage Pole is the Roman Road that goes directly from 'Robin Hood's Cave' to 'Robin Hood's Well' at Barnsdale. Robin Hood's Well is one of the first places to bear the name 'Robin Hood' and likewise many Robin Hood names abound around Hathersage.

Friar Tuck may well have known Hathersage for across the ridge where 'Robin Hood's Cave' is situated is the track known as 'Friars Ridge' used by the Premonstratensian monks and pilgrims on their way to Beauchief Abbey at Dore, which is associated by name with Lord Robert Dore of Wadsley who was an outlaw known as ROBIN HOOD. The abbey was built by a sheriff of Nottingham and it was another sheriff of Nottingham (the son of William the Conqueror) who built the nearby Royal Castle in the Royal Forest of the Peak. The area was known to the sheriffs of Nottingham as Derbyshire came under their jurisdiction and it abounds with Robin Hood associations, King John and members of the nobility were living and hunting here and maybe Friar Tuck was here also.

Well, I lived in Loxley and had many a pint in the local Robin Hood Inn! :)



It seems to be generally accepted that both Maid Marian and Friar Tuck are completely fictitious.



Couldn't agree more. There may be historical evidence for a local outlaw whose name or nickname was Robin Hood or something similar, but any historical facts that might be unearthed are - to the man in the street - of less importance than the folk-hero legend, the benevolent principle of robbing the rich to help the poor etc. (Robin Hood was a popular figure in Soviet Russia, apparently as an early advocate of socialism!!). It's a good story - historians may try to identify the man, but the legend is more important.

Robert Thwing seems to be another Robin Hood type figure?

Thwing [Thweng], Sir Robert (III) of [alias William Wither] (d. 1245x57), knight, was the son of Marmaduke (I) of Thwing (d. in or after 1234) [see under Thwing family]. Robert makes his first appearance in 1229, suing Richard de Percy (fl. 1181–1244) for customs and services in Kilton and Kirkleatham, land that he had acquired by his marriage to Mathilda, widow of Richard de Autrey and niece and heir of William of Kilton.

In 1231 he became conspicuous for his opposition to the Roman and Italian clergy who had received papal provision to churches in England. With the assistance of the archbishop of York, an Italian had been intruded to the church of Kirkleatham, the advowson of which Robert and his wife had recovered in 1230 following litigation against the prior of Guisborough. Robert adopted the alias William Wither, literally ‘William the Angry'; he placed himself at the head of an armed agitation against the foreigners and about Easter 1232 pillaged their corn and barns and distributed the spoils among the poor.

In response to complaints from the pope Henry III ordered the arrest of various leading courtiers who were implicated in these disturbances, including Hubert de Burgh (d. 1243), the chief justiciar, who is said to have lent tacit support to the ‘Withermen' out of anger at a papal inquiry into the legality of his marriage. Thwing is later to be found witnessing a charter of Hubert's son, John de Burgh, but in 1232 there is nothing to suggest that Hubert and Thwing were in any way close associates. Thwing himself was sent by the king for absolution in Rome. In 1239 he made a second visit to Rome, carrying with him a general letter of complaint from the English barons. Perhaps through the influence of Richard, earl of Cornwall, to whose household Thwing had attached himself, he obtained letters from Pope Gregory IX (r. 1227–41) protecting the rights of lay patrons against papal provision. Early in the following year Thwing set out with Earl Richard on crusade. In September 1240, from Marseilles, he was sent as an envoy to the emperor, Frederick II (r. 1212–50), with information about the pope's attempts to delay the crusade. As a result, he may never have reached the Holy Land. In 1244 he was accused of making a violent attack upon a clerk of the archbishop of York in the king's hall at Windsor. His lands were seized, but restored the following year. The date of his death is unknown, but he was probably dead by 1257 when his eldest son and heir, Marmaduke (II) of Thwing, had control of the chief family estates.

Robin Hood is a folklore figure and not real history. He may have existed, or maybe not. There are theories that the stories are an amalgamation of tales that could have roots in more than one historical figure.

It seems a bit pointless to argue over exactly where he came from using modern administrative boundaries. One thing is for sure, he didn't come from South Yorkshire as it wasn't invented until 1974.

So you say South Yorkshire wasn't invented until 1974. so I lived with a postal address in South Yorkshire from 1964 until 1972. So who "invented" South Yorkshire and when.

So he didn' come from South Yorkshire (That would be difficult as it was only invented in 1974) so where did he come from and as you have made the statement dont you think is up to you to provide the information to support your claim.

Look forward to reading it

You've only got to Google Robin Hood to see the 1,000s of entries but there's nothing concrete. It's legend, folklore, anecdotal, etc etc etc.
A I recall one of the "experts" is a Canadian who visits Sherwood Forest on a regular basis !!

It's an emotive legend, just leave it there for everyone to enjoy in their own way.

You've only got to Google Robin Hood to see the 1,000s of entries but there's nothing concrete. It's legend, folklore, anecdotal, etc etc etc.
A I recall one of the "experts" is a Canadian who visits Sherwood Forest on a regular basis !!

It's an emotive legend, just leave it there for everyone to enjoy in their own way.

You mean Allen Wright.

I think it has to be accepted that there were more than one Robin Hood stretching over several centuries.

Any gangster who carried a scar was named Scarface after Al Capone, it doesn't take much to think this must be the case that any outlaw was named Robin Hood and so the legends and stories have expanded over the centuries.

The public love to read or hear about a rogue, you only have to read the postings on the Sheffield gangs and local hardmen.

Someone once did a thesis on Robin Hood at Sheffield University and with all the books, documents at his disposal he couldn't come up with one Robin Hood.

There used to be an old bow always said to be Robin Hood's longbow hanging up near the altar in Hathersage Church.

It was restrung and tried out in the mid 1800's but later was removed from the church and taken to Scotland by the family who owned it.

I wonder where it is now?

Happy Days!

/-\/-\-/=\-/

I think it has to be accepted that there were more than one Robin Hood stretching over several centuries.

Any gangster who carried a scar was named Scarface after Al Capone, it doesn't take much to think this must be the case that any outlaw was named Robin Hood and so the legends and stories have expanded over the centuries.

The public love to read or hear about a rogue, you only have to read the postings on the Sheffield gangs and local hardmen.

Someone once did a thesis on Robin Hood at Sheffield University and with all the books, documents at his disposal he couldn't come up with one Robin Hood.

There used to be an old bow always said to be Robin Hood's longbow hanging up near the altar in Hathersage Church.

It was restrung and tried out in the mid 1800's but later was removed from the church and taken to Scotland by the family who owned it.

I wonder where it is now?

Happy Days!

The bow is still with the same Scot family :) and the pardon for Lord Robert Dore of Wadsley otherwise known as Robin Hood was only found last year in the PRO at Kew by two researchers Marcus and David, congratulation to them both.

EDIT
The Bow you mention belonged to John Naylor of Hathersage and is at Cannon Hall, it is not the same bow that went to Scotland.

EDIT
Whether Robin Hood was one person or a conglomeration of several is a subject that keeps cropping up and it depends on your point of view. Early mentions of him always speak in the singular and outlaw bands were known by the name of their leader, for example the “Withermen”, the “Coterills” the “Folvills” the “Bradborn gang.” Even the Shefield gangs were known by the name of their leader which brings us to "Robin Hood and his Merry Men" with "Merry" meaning famous.

http://www.bartleby.com/81/11340.html

http://www.bartleby.com/81/11344.html

.

That website in the first post has a few inaccuracies. Barnsdale forest never stretched to Sheffield/Loxley... it started just north of Doncaster and contained villages now in the borough... the actual name Barnsdale was given to the area between Doncaster and Pontefract.

Through the centre of it ran the roman-built motorways of the day -what is now the Great North Road from Doncaster to the north and south. Perfect for a days plunder of the rich by our Robin.

Barnsdale also stretched to the areas of West Yorkshire that also have a great claim to the mythical hero through virtue of mentions in the stories and various other place names and whatnot, which gives credence that he lived in one or more of the places, myth-wise anyway... particularly with the vast border with Notts in Donny.

The airport is pretty much in Notts. Would be interested to see what the difference is now between Sherwood Forest to Robin Hood Airport and to Nottingham and what it would have been back then.

Here is a Wikipiedia article about Sheffield and this is what it says about Barnsdale.

Ecclesall electoral ward was created 1934 when the old Ecclesall Bierlow ward was divided into Ecclesall, Broomhill and Hallam.

The boundaries of the ward include about half of the area that was historically known as Ecclesall Bierlow—one of the six 'townships' that made up the old Parish of Sheffield. Ecclesall Bierlow encompassed most of the land between the River Sheaf and the Porter Brook from The Moor to Ringinglow. It also included the areas of Broomhall and Crookesmoor to the north of Porter Brook. Though this area contained numerous small villages and hamlets, there was never a village called Ecclesall.

In ancient times this area was part of the Barnsdale Forest that, together with Sherwood Forest, made up the forest of the Robin Hood legends. The River Sheaf marked the boundary between the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of Mercia and Deira (later Northumbria). In fact the earliest historical record of this area refers to the submission of the Northumbrian army to Egbert of Wessex at nearby Dore in 829.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesall

(There was a continous belt of forest stretching across the backbone of England between Sherwood and Barnsdale. Forest was a legal definition that included scrub-land for example grouse moors, today it has come to mean woodland.)

Here is a map showing the county boundary of Nottinghamshire and as you will see it is quite a distance from Barnsdale.

http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/KIRK6479/mycustompage0048.htm


On a point of information the Sheriff of Nottingham had jurisdiction in both Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire and as you may know the Derbyshire boundary was at the “Meersbrook” in Heely, so the sheriff of Nottingham would be active in and around modern day Sheffield.

Thanks,

Graham.

Robin Hood is a folklore figure and not real history. He may have existed, or maybe not. There are theories that the stories are an amalgamation of tales that could have roots in more than one historical figure.

It seems a bit pointless to argue over exactly where he came from using modern administrative boundaries. One thing is for sure, he didn't come from South Yorkshire as it wasn't invented until 1974.

Alastair still waiting for you facts that South Yorkshire was only invented in 1974 as a postscript when I was a lad I used to get on the bus which was called South Yorkshire Transport Executive I will agree in the early 70's the boundries were changed.
West/North and East Ridings existed, but in 1969 it was West Yorkshire/North Yorkshire and South Yorkshire.

Think JoeP made a telling point earlier.
Most appropriate question is "So what?"
Does it really matter if her was in Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire or any other shire?
It's the legend, the aura, the mystique, the possibility that there might, just might, be a bit of credibility to it all.
Leave it to the likes of Errol Flynn, Kevin Costner and the BBC (who filmed the latest TV series in Hungary) to perpetuate the story.

Think JoeP made a telling point earlier.
Most appropriate question is "So what?"
Does it really matter if her was in Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire or any other shire?
It's the legend, the aura, the mystique, the possibility that there might, just might, be a bit of credibility to it all.
Leave it to the likes of Errol Flynn, Kevin Costner and the BBC (who filmed the latest TV series in Hungary) to perpetuate the story.

So do you prefer to live in a make belief world?

So do you prefer to live in a make belief world?

If something can't be proved and this is certainly a prime example, then just where is it?
Opinions on this, such as people are generally bothered, will always differ, neither side being able to prove one way or the other.

For over 2,000 years "they've" been trying to prove that there is life after death.
Well, is there?

Robin Hood falls into the same category.

Oh and the answer to your question is certainly , no. However it is a rather superfluous question considering that Robin Hood is not in my world.
Can you say the same?

If something can't be proved and this is certainly a prime example, then just where is it?
Opinions on this, such as people are generally bothered, will always differ, neither side being able to prove one way or the other.

For over 2,000 years "they've" been trying to prove that there is life after death.
Well, is there?

Robin Hood falls into the same category.

Oh and the answer to your question is certainly , no. However it is a rather superfluous question considering that Robin Hood is not in my world.
Can you say the same?

You ask the question "Who cares?" That is like saying to a footballer, "Who cares about football?" It is just asking for troube.

You live in your Hollywood fantasy world if that is what you want to do and leave the real world to the rest of us.

For those who doubt Robin Hood was a real person here is an extract from Walter Bower's Scotichronicon of 1440AD.

"In that year also the disinherited English barons and those loyal to the king clashed fiercely; amongst them Roger de Mortimer occupied the Welsh Marches and John d’Eyville occupied the Isle of Ely; Robert Hood was an outlaw amongst the woodland briar's and thorns. Between them they inflicted a vast amount of slaughter on the common and ordinary folk, cities and merchants. King Henry, however, along with his son Prince Edward and a huge army also besieged the very well fortified castle of Kenilworth, where almost [May] all the nobles who were rebelling against the king had taken refuge. There the remnants of Simon de Montfort’s following, seeing that the castle with its towers and protecting walls was impregnable, defended themselves steadily with all their might. At length, worn out by lack of food and starvation, they handed over the castle on [Dec] the condition that they keep life and limb."

[QUOTE=Grahame;2998669]You ask the question "Who cares?"



For those who doubt Robin Hood was a real person here is an extract from Walter Bower's Scotichronicon of 1440AD.

QUOTE]
1440 AD eh, well thanks but I'd rather live in the present and leave history where it belongs, in the past.

[QUOTE=Grahame;2998669]You ask the question "Who cares?"

For those who doubt Robin Hood was a real person here is an extract from Walter Bower's Scotichronicon of 1440AD.

QUOTE]
1440 AD eh, well thanks but I'd rather live in the present and leave history where it belongs, in the past.

Saying "leave history where it belongs, in the past" obviously means you don't care and that is what you have just said. I think you care and I'm guessing that you have Nottingham connections and that is what your avatar indicates. If you do have Nottingham connections then let me say here and now that Robin Hood belongs in Yorkshire so you had better get used to it my friend.

(The Battle of Evesham was 1265)

Well, as PopT wrote, there will have been more than one Robin Hood stretching over several centuries. If it were ever possible conclusively to identify the 'principal' Robin Hood, and if it can be shown - as the historical evidence suggests - that this Robin Hood was from South Yorkshire, then this naturally will have some significance, especially to local people. But it will be a long time - if ever - before the historical figure of Robin Hood becomes uppermost in peoples' minds. The legend of the benevolent folk hero will prevail as it has done for centuries, just as for example Wilhelm Tell exists in the minds of the Swiss. Unlike the fictitious Wilhelm Tell, an historical Robin Hood might belatedly take his factual, historical place among the legends - but it is the legends that will prevail, representing as they do the triumph of good over bad.

Robert Hood was an outlaw amongst the woodland briar's and thorns. Between them they inflicted a vast amount of slaughter on the common and ordinary folk, cities and merchants.

So....in real life he was just another hoodlum ? :)

Wow!

Strange to see all the anti 'Facebook' hysteria at the start (most of it completely without grounding), but then some useful posts started to accumulate.

Professor Holt who is the former Master of Fitzwilliam College and Professor of Medieval History at the University of Cambridge has this to say: http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/kirk6479/mycustompage0014.htm

As for why was the Sheriff of Nottingham involved? Well, he owned Peveril Castle which is in Castleton which was then part of the Royal Forest of the Peak where Robin Hood operated. The Sheriff also built Beauchief Abbey which is clearly in Sheffield. It is impossible to deny that the territories at the time were closely connected and indeed disputed and not confined solely to Nottinghamshire: http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/KIRK6479/mycustompage0037.htm

I don't really care either way! Sheffield has enough to shout about over Nottingham without claiming some story that has been trumped up beyond all recognition over the years. I created the group on facebook as an opposing point of view to a group slating yorkshire people for disputing Nottingham's claim that he was theirs and theirs alone.

.... Professor Holt who is the former Master of Fitzwilliam College and Professor of Medieval History at the University of Cambridge has this to say: http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/kirk6479/mycustompage0014.htm

The first words of the Introduction to Professor Holt’s book are perhaps significant: "This is a book about a myth, not a man". But there seems little doubt that if Robin Hood ever existed, he did so in South Yorkshire (which, contrary to what "Alastair" wrote in post #20 on this thread, was not "invented in 1974". It has always existed as the southern part of Yorkshire). Much research has been carried out in the 20 years since Professor Holt was working on his book, but while academics might argue over which of the possible contenders to be the "genuine" Robin Hood actually was the folk hero, he was surely a Yorkshireman with strong links to Loxley.

So....in real life he was just another hoodlum ? :)

He may not have been a very nice guy at all if what William Grafton wrote is correct. (I think it was Grafton)

It seems a bit pointless to argue over exactly where he came from using modern administrative boundaries. One thing is for sure, he didn't come from South Yorkshire as it wasn't invented until 1974.

I don't think anyone so far has tried to suggest he was from South Yorkshire?!

I suppose when it came to having a "local" hero, Nottingham didn't have much choice. The only definite connection with a historic name was the Sherrif of Nottingham, but as he was obviously a baddie, taxing people to the hilt and being a bit of a bullying dictator, they couldn't really adopt him. So instead they chose the guy who kept nipping down the road from Loxley, with his mates to give him a good sorting. Obviously, transport then not being what it is now (???) he had to stay overnight, and chose Sherwood Forest so he could hide out of sight. The Great Oak was called that because it was a great meeting point for the gang, and was only a mere sapling then.
So as the only "heroic" figure to ever go through the Nottingham town gates, they've latched onto Robin Hood. I don't really mind, I know where he's really from. God's own county of Yorkshire, and the fair land of Hallam.

I thought Richard Greene came from Plymouth.

Robin Hood is a folklore figure and not real history. He may have existed, or maybe not. There are theories that the stories are an amalgamation of tales that could have roots in more than one historical figure.

It seems a bit pointless to argue over exactly where he came from using modern administrative boundaries. One thing is for sure, he didn't come from South Yorkshire as it wasn't invented until 1974.

And seeing as Alastair obviously knows about the boundary changes, he will also know prior to that Sheffield and Loxley were in the West Riding of Yorkshire the same as Robin Hood's grave at Kirklees. :|

[QUOTE=PhilipB;2998703]

Saying "leave history where it belongs, in the past" obviously means you don't care and that is what you have just said. I think you care and I'm guessing that you have Nottingham connections and that is what your avatar indicates. If you do have Nottingham connections then let me say here and now that Robin Hood belongs in Yorkshire so you had better get used to it my friend.

(The Battle of Evesham was 1265)

For the record, I'm Sheffield born and bred, have never visited Nottingham, have no desire to do so and my avatar simply relates to my having pursued archery as a sport.
Oh, and by the way, thanks but I choose my own friends.

Away and get your green tights on.

[QUOTE=Grahame;2998714]

For the record, I'm Sheffield born and bred, have never visited Nottingham, have no desire to do so and my avatar simply relates to my having pursued archery as a sport.
Oh, and by the way, thanks but I choose my own friends.

Away and get your green tights on.

If you have looked at the previous threads posted by Grahame with regards Robin Hood and little John he has agreat deal of Knoledge on the subject.
So lets stop the attitude and the comments with regards the green tights.
This is a foum where people have their own opinions and this has been said many times before, if you disagree then say why, do not start to through insults

[QUOTE=Grahame;2998714]

For the record, I'm Sheffield born and bred, have never visited Nottingham, have no desire to do so and my avatar simply relates to my having pursued archery as a sport.
Oh, and by the way, thanks but I choose my own friends.

Away and get your green tights on.

Have you got many, maybe an attitude adjustment is in order

The Sloane Manuscript which is housed in the British Museum is handwritten and appears to be a copy, possibly dictated from an original. It predates the earliest printed version of the “Gest of Robin Hood” before the ingredients from the Elizabethan playwrights had contaminated the legend.

There was a boundary dispute between Yorkshire and Derbyshire which came under Nottingham’s administration. The people of Hathersage wanted rights of way to Loxley. However the dispute was finally settled and remains where it is today marked by Stannage Pole. The dispute explains the reference to Loxley in the first sentence which says Robin Hood was born in Loxley in Yorkshire or after others (according to others) in Nottingham, thereby identifying his birthplace as the Hallamshire Loxley. (GK)

THE SLOANE MANUSCRIPT
“Robin Hood was borne at Lockesley, in Yorkeshire, or after others, in Notinghamshire, in the days of Henry the second, about the yeare 1160; but lyued tyll the latter end of Richard the Fyrst. He was of wo[ ? ] parentage, but was so riotous, that he lost or sould his patrimony, and for debt became an outlawe; then ioyning to him many stout fellows of like disposicioun, amongst whome one called Little John was principal, or next to him. They hainted about Barnsdale forrest, Clomptoun parke, and other such places. They vsed most of al shooting, wherin they all excelled all the men of the land, though, as occation required, they had al so other weapons.

One of his first exploits was the goyng abrode into a forrest, and bearing with him a bowe of exceeding great strength. He fell into company with certayne rangers, or woodmen, who fell to quarrel with him, as making showe to vse such a bowe as no man was able to shoote with all; whereto Robin replyed, that he had two better then that at lockesley, only he bare thot with him nowe as a byrding bowe. At length the contentioun grewe so hote, that there was a wager layd about the kylling of a deer a great distance of; for performance whereof, Robin offered to lay his head to a certayne soume of money. Of the advantage of which rash speech, the others presently tooke. So the marke being found out, one of them, they were both to make his hart faint, and hand vnsteady, as he was about to shoote, urged him with the losse of his head if he myst the marke. Notwithstanding, Robin kyld the deare, and gaue every man his money agayne saue to him which at the point of shooting so vpbrayed him with danger to loose his head. For that money, he sayd, they would drinke together, and herevpon the other stomached the matter; and from quarrelling they grewe to fighting with him.

But Robin, getting him somewhat off with shooting, dispact them, and so fled away; and then betaking him selfe to lieu in the woods by such booty as he could get, his company encreast to an hundred and a halfe; and in those dayes, whether they were favord, or how so ever, they were counted invincible. Wheresoever he hard of any that were of vnvsual strength and hardynes, he would disgyse him selfe, and rather than fayle go lyke a beggar, to become acqueynted with them; and after he had tried them with fighting, never giue them over tyl he had vsed means to drawe them to lyve after his fashion.

After such manner he procured the pynder of Wakefeyld to become one of his company, and a freyer, called Muchel, though some say he was an other kind of religious man, for that the order of fryers was not yet sprung up; Scarlock, he induced, upon this occacion: one day meting him, as he walked solitary, and lyke to a man forlorne, because a mayd to whom he was affianced was taken from by the violence of her friends, and giuen to another that was auld and welthy. Whervpon Robin, vnderstanding when the maryage-day should be, came to the church, as a beggar, and having his company not far of, which came in so sone as they hard the sound of his horne, he toking, the bride perforce from him that was in hand to have maryed her, and caused the preist to wed her and Scarlocke together.

Amongst other that greatly freinded him, was Sir Richard Lee, a knight of Lancashire, lord of [..rso.. castle]; and that first vpon this occation, it was the manner of Robin and his retinue to lyue by thieving and robbing, though yet he were somewhat religiously affected, and not without superstition. But of al seynts, he most honored the Virgin Mary; so that if any, for her sake, asked ought of him, he wold perform it, if possibly hecould; neither would he suffer any that belonged vnto him to violate women, poremen, or any of husbandry. Al theyr attempts were chiefly against fat prelates and religious persons, and howses fryers; and he is commended of John Major for the prince of al theyuse and robbers, &c.

Nowe, once it happened him to send little John Scarlocke and Muchel to the sayles vpon Watling streets, to meete with some booty they wanted, when any prey came to theyr hands to leade them into the wood to their habitacion, as if they would vse some hospitality; but after they had eate, would make them pay deerely for theyr cates, by stripping them of such things as they had. So they dealt with Sir Richard Lee, leading to their manor, who made him the best cheare they had; and when Sir Richard would have departed only with giving the thanks, Robin tould him it was not his manner to dyne any where but he payd for such things as he tooke, and so should others do to him ere they parted, and it were, as he sayd, no good manners to refuse such doing. The knight tould him he had but Xs., which he ment should have borne his charges at Blyth, or Doncaster; and if he had none, it fared ful yl with him at the tyme to parte from it, onely he promised, as he should be able, to requite his curtesy with the lyke. But Robin, not so contented, caused him to be searcht, and found no more but what the knight had told him of; wherevpon he commended his true dealing, and enquired further touching the cause of his sadness and bareness. The knight tould him then of his state and his ancestry, and how his sonne and Hayre, falling at varinge with a knight in Lancashire, slewe him in the feild, for which, and some other such lyke exployts, being in danger to loose his lyfe, the knight, to procure his deliverance, had been at great charges, and even lastly dryven to pawn his castle and lyving to the abbot of St. Maryes, at Yorke, for 400lj; and the cheife justice so dealt with the abbot for his state, or interest therein, that being lyke to forfeyt his lyving for lacke of money to redeeme it at the day appointed, he despaired now of al recovery.

Robin then, pittying his case, gave him 400lj, which was parte of such bootyes as they had gorged, and surety for payment againe within a tweluemont was our Lady. They also furnysht him with apparel, out of which he was worne quyte, and therefore, for very shamement, shortly to have past over the seas, and to spend the rest of his lyfe, as a mournful pylgrime, in going to Jerusalem, &c.; but being now enlightned, he despaired iust as his day appointed to ye abbot, which where the cheife in the shire conversed, accounting al knights lands saued to themselues; and the knight, to try theyr charity, made shewe as if he wanted money to pay the debt, and when he found no token of compassion, left them the money and recovered his land, for which that payment were made he offred to ferme (farm) the abbot thereby.

Now, ere the twelvemonth was expired, Sir Richard provided the 400lj, and a hundred shefe of good arrows, which he ment to bestowe on Robin Hood; and encountering on the way certayne people that were wrestling for a great wager, he stood still to see the event of the matter. So there was a yeman that prevailed, but the other people enuying it, and the rather because he was but pore and alone, accorded among them…to oppress him with wrongs; that the knight took his parte, and rescued him, and at parting gaue him 5 marks.

Nowe it befell, that neere to Nottingham al the cheifest archers had apoynted a day of shooting for some great wager, the Sherife him selfe being appointed to see the game. Nowe that Sheriffe was a fel adversary to Robin and his company, and he againe of them so lesse maligned; therefore, to see into al matters, Little John was sent, in disguysed manner, to go shoote amongst them, where he sped him so wel, that the Shyryfe iudged him to be the best archer; and so importuned him to be his man, that Little John went home with him, under the name of Raynold Greenlefe, and telling him he was bornen Holdernesse.

So Little John watched al advantages to do his master some myscheufe; and, understanding where he used to go hunting, by some means procured his master Robin Hood, and his retinue, to be in redynes ther about. So one day, the Shyryfe and al his people bin gone hunting, Little John, of purpose, kept behinde, and lay a bed as somewhat sicke; but was no sooner gat vp enquired for his dynner of the steward, which, with curse words, denyed him vituals tyl his master were come home; wherevpon Little John beate him downe, and entred the buttry. The cook being a very stout fellowe, fought with him a long tyme, and at length accorded to goe with him to the forrest. So they two ryfled the howse, tooke away al the Shyryfe’s treasure and best thinges, and conveyed it to Robin Hood; and then Little John repaired to the Shyryfe, who, in his hunting, doubted no such matter, but toke him for one of his company; wherevpon Little John tould him he had seen the goodlyest heard of deere that was in the forrest, not far of seven score in a company, which he could bring him to. The Sheryfe, glad to heare of so strange a matter, went with him, tyl he came where the danger of Robin Hood and his company, who led him to their habitacion, …….and there serued him with his own plate, and other thinges, that Little John and the cook had brought away. So that night they made him ly on the ground, after theyr owne manner, wrapt in a green mantel, and the next day sent him away, after they had taken an oath of him never to pursve them, but the best he could to serue them; but the Shyrfte afterward made no more account of the othe then was meete yt.

After this, Little John, Scarlocke, and others, were sent forth to meet with some company, if they were pore to helpe them with some such thinges as they had; if rytch, to handle them as they sawe occasion. So, vppon the way near Barensdale, they met with 2 Blacke monkes, wel horsed, and accompanied with 50 persons. Nowe, because Robin, their master, had our Lady in great reverence when any booty came to theyr hand, they would say our Lady sent them theyr; wherefore, when Little John sawe that company, hevsed such proverbe to his fellows, encouraging them to encounter; and coming to the monkes, he tould them, that though they were but 3, they durst never see theyr master agayne, but if they brought them to dinner with him; and whom the monke keape of, little John begged to speake reproachfully for making his master stay dinner so long; whervpon, when the monkes enquired for his master’s name, and Little John tould him it was Robin Hood, the monke angerly replyde, he was an arrant thief, of whom he never hard good; Little John replyde as contumeliously, saying, he was a yeoman of the forrest, and bad him to dynner; so the grewe from wordes to strokes, tyl they had kyled al but one or two, which they led, perforce, to theyr master, who saluted them lowely; but the monke, being stout-hearted, did not the lyke to his. Then Robin blewe his horn, and his retinue came in; they al went to dynner, and after that, Robin asked him of what abbey he was, who tould hime he was of St. Mary.

Now it was to the same to whose abbat the knight ought the 400lj which Robin lent him to redeeme his landes with, al which Robin perceiving, begone t iest, that he marvayled our Lady had not sent him yet his pay which she was surety for betwixt a knight and him. Have no care, master, sayd Little John; you need not to say this monk hath brought it, I dare wel swere, for he is of her abbey. So Robin called for wyne, and drank to him, and prayed him to let him see if he had brought him the money. The monke swore he had never hard speech of such covenant before. But Robin bare him downe: he desembled, seing he knewe both Christ and his mother were so iust, and confessing him selfe to be theyr every dayes servant and messenger, must needs have it, and therefore thanked him for coming so at his day. The monke stil denying, Robin asked howe much money he had about him; but twenty marks, sayd the monke. Then sayd Robin, if we fynd more, we will take it as of our Ladyes sending, but wil not of that which is thy owne spending money.

So Little John was sent to serch his bagges, and found about 800lj, which he related to his master, telling him with al, that our Lady had dobled his payment. Yea, I tould thee, monke, sayd Robin, what a trusty woman she is; so he called for wyne, and dranke to the monke, bidding him commend him to our Lady, and if she had need of Robin Hood, she would fynd him thankeful for so lib’ral dealing. Then they searcht the lode of another horse, wherefore the monke tould him that was curtesy to bid a man to dynner, and beate and bynd him; and it is our manner sayd Robin, to leave but a little behind, so the monke made hast to be gone, and sayd he might have dyned as good cheape at Blyth, or Doncastre. And Robin called to him as he was going, and bad him greete wel his abbot, and the rest of their convent, and wysh them to sende hym suche a monke ech day to dynner. Then shortly came the knight to keepe his day; and after salutacions, was about to pay him his money, beside xx marks for his curtesy; but Robin gave it him agayne, telling him howe our Lady had sent him, that, and more, by the abbey’s cellarer, and it were to him a shame to be twyse payd; but the bowes and arrows he accepted, for which he gave him at parting other 400lj. (Marks)

(Deleted. Too long to post)

After which tyme he continued that course of lyfe about XX years, tyl, distempered with could and age, he had great payne in his lymes, his bloud being corrupted; therefore, to be eased of his payne, by letting blud, he repaired to the priores of Kyrkesley, which some say was his aunt, a woman very skylful in physique and surgery; who, perceiving him to be Robin Hood, and way’ing howe fel an enemy he was to religious persons, toke reveng of him for her owne howse, and al others, by letting him bleed to death; and she buryed him vnder a greate stone, by the hy way’es side. It is also sayd, that one Sir Roger of Dancastre, bearing grudge to Robin for some injury, incited the prioress, with whom he was very familiar, in such manner to dispatch him, and then al his company was soone dispersed. The place of Little John’s burial is to this the celebro. For yielding of excellent whetstones. (Stannage Edge)
FINIS.

© Clement of the Glen 2006-2007

Grahame as you well know,from another Robin Hood site,

UFO's, King Arthur, the Loch Ness Monster, The Abominable Snowman, Bigfoot, Robin Hood …. you may not believe that any of these exist but the simple fact that if you could recycle the amount of printed paper matter written about them all back into trees you'd be a fair way to starting another Sherwood Forest.

why do you keep dragging up bits of unproven tripe to make it look like truth.

Grahame as you well know,from another Robin Hood site,

UFO's, King Arthur, the Loch Ness Monster, The Abominable Snowman, Bigfoot, Robin Hood …. you may not believe that any of these exist but the simple fact that if you could recycle the amount of printed paper matter written about them all back into trees you'd be a fair way to starting another Sherwood Forest.

why do you keep dragging up bits of unproven tripe to make it look like truth.

If you are saying that such academics as Sir Hans Sloane, Roger Dodsworth, Joseph Hunter, Sir William Dugdale, and John Leland c.1506-52 published a load of tripe then feel free to do so but I suggest you Google them first. They are among the finest authorities in their field and are recognised as such the world over.

Robin of Locksley

Locksley was introduced into the story via the Sloan Manuscript which was probably first written in the sixteenth century. The manuscript states that "Robin Hood was born in Locksley in Yorkshire or after other in Nottinghamshire, in ye days of Henry II about ye yeare 1160, but lived tyll ye latter end of Richard Ye Fyrst". This was the beginnings of Robin of Locksley or Loxley. Roger Dodsworth an antiquarian of the seventeenth century, wrote:

Robert Locksley, born in Bradfield parish, in Hallamshire (S. Yorkshire), wounded his stepfather to death at plough: fled into the woods, and was relieved by his mother till he was discovered. Then he came to Clifton upon Calder, and came acquainted with Little John, that kept the kine (cattle) which said John is buried at Hathershead (Hathersage) in Derbyshire, where he hath a fair tomb-stone with an inscription. Mr Long saith that Fabyan saith, Little John was an earl Huntingdon. After he joined with Much, the Miller's son.

Once again the story of Robin Hood became more confused. This theme was continued in 1819 by Sir Walter Scott, who portrays Robin Hood as Robin of Locksley in his book Ivanhoe. There is a Loxley in Warwickshire, and another near Sheffield in Yorkshire.

MI5 cover up,:hihi:

http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/weird-world/MI5-coverup-claim-over-Robin.3440501.jp

Grahame as you well know,from another Robin Hood site,

UFO's, King Arthur, the Loch Ness Monster, The Abominable Snowman, Bigfoot, Robin Hood …. you may not believe that any of these exist but the simple fact that if you could recycle the amount of printed paper matter written about them all back into trees you'd be a fair way to starting another Sherwood Forest.

why do you keep dragging up bits of unproven tripe to make it look like truth.

"Lets stop the Bus here" as a South Yorkshire man we have always accepted and believed in Robin of Loxley you can niether prove or disprove his existance.
Next point the Loch Ness Monster as you will see I live in Inverness and over the years I have fished this loch it is a strange place and things do happen, even people like Nicolas Whitchall have seen something (Try reading his book)

"Lets stop the Bus here" as a South Yorkshire man we have always accepted and believed in Robin of Loxley you can niether prove or disprove his existance.
Next point the Loch Ness Monster as you will see I live in Inverness and over the years I have fished this loch it is a strange place and things do happen, even people like Nicolas Whitchall have seen something (Try reading his book)

You stop the bus wherever you want, I like to see the proof rather than,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/sense_of_place/unexplained/cottingley_fairies.shtml

The Sloane manuscript which is earlier than the earliest printed copy of the Geste has the first reference to Loxley. Roger Dodsworth confirms it and Sir Walter Scott who was an excellent historian in his own right sets his novel Ivanhoe in a historically correct setting.

As for Barbra Green she founded the Yorkshire Robin Hood society and elected herself president. I had grave concerns about her activates as she was doing a great deal of harm, thanks due partly to her over active imagination. I don’t want to say any more but she has been banned from Robin Hood’s grave by Mrs Armytage who owns the land and is a lovely lady, she has been banned from every forum, and MSN have banned her from having her own message boards and that takes some doing.

You stop the bus wherever you want, I like to see the proof rather than,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/sense_of_place/unexplained/cottingley_fairies.shtml

Thanks for the link, are you trying to imply that we are away with the "Fairies I meen". You require proof of every ledgend or belief before you will accept.
Do you have a releigious beleif, if you do have you proof I dont think so. Giving me a reply with a web site says to me that you can only provide an oppinion of other people.
Web sites including the BBC report the information and oppinions from the man in the street.
You seam to have a problem with the possability that Robin Hood, The Loch Ness Monster exist.
So you prove and provide evidence they dont exist and I will appologise, it will be more difficult than proving they do exist.
Look forward to your proof

Thanks for the link, are you trying to imply that we are away with the "Fairies I meen". You require proof of every ledgend or belief before you will accept.
Do you have a releigious beleif, if you do have you proof I dont think so. Giving me a reply with a web site says to me that you can only provide an oppinion of other people.
Web sites including the BBC report the information and oppinions from the man in the street.
You seam to have a problem with the possability that Robin Hood, The Loch Ness Monster exist.So you prove and provide evidence they dont exist and I will appologise, it will be more difficult than proving they do exist.
Look forward to your proof

If I could make any sense of that it may be worth a reply, but I cant, so we'll leave you to your opinion.

You're all wrong.

Robin Hood's clearly a Derbyshire man.

He no doubt had to visit south yorkshire every now and again to dish out a few sovereigns to the plebs, but he's definitely one of us!

You're all wrong.

Robin Hood's clearly a Derbyshire man.

He no doubt had to visit south yorkshire every now and again to dish out a few sovereigns to the plebs, but he's definitely one of us!

I don't know if you are aware but the Royal Forest of the Peak which included Castleton and Chapel-en-le-Frith was in Derbyshire, and Tideswell was known as the 'Kings Larder.' There were so many deer in King Johns time that when they stampeded several men and dogs were killed. King John bread horses for hunting in the booths around Castleton, many of the Kings of England used Peveril Castle as a hunting lodge and the Royal Forest of the Peak had the best hunting anywhere in England apart from the New Forest although the sport of hunting was more thrilling in the Peak due to the terrain. (You could end up galloping over a cliff edge.)

The boundary of the Royal Forest was Derwent Valley which isn't very far from Loxley and there are court records of people being fined for hunting in Peak Forest from Bradfield and Wigtwistle and a clergyman from Glossop along with many others. So even though Robin Hood we are told was born in Loxley and spent his time on Watling Street at Barnsdale, I am sure he was hunting in the Royal Forest of the Peak and in fact Robert Loxley was in court in both Huntingdon and Nottingham along with members of the Meveril Family who were from Tideswell.

Professor Holt on Nottingham's candidate for Robin Hood, who they say was Robert de Kyme.)

Since Mr J. Lees {The Quest/or Robin Hood, Nottingham 1987), has tried to revive Stukeley's pedigree in a revised form it may be useful to summarize a few of the salient errors.

First, the critical figure for both Stukeley and Mr Lees is William 'FitzOoth', who (Stukeley) or whose heir (Lees) was transferred to the custody of Robert de Vere, earl of Oxford, in 1214. In reality the William son of Otho, whose heir or heirs were placed in the custody of Aubrey de Vere, earl of Oxford, in 1205 and transferred to Robert de Vere, earl of Oxford, in 1214, had nothing to do with the family of Kyme, or with the earls of Huntingdon, still less with Robin Hood. He is well known as an official of the Mint, holding his office in charge of the manufacture of the royal dies as a sergeanty. By 1219 he was succeeded by his son, Otho son of William, who still held office in 1242- 3. It follows therefore that 'Robert fitz Ooth' is entirely fictitious; so is the alleged link between 'FitzOoth' and Kyme; and so are the grounds for seeking an original Robin Hood in the Kyme family.

Secondly, there is no evidence that any Robert of Kyme mentioned by Mr Lees was outlawed. The instance on which he relies is a royal remission of wrath and indignation incurred by an appeal of rape against a Robert of Kyme at Wenlock in 1226; there is no mention of outlawry.

Thirdly, Mr Lees's 'Robert of Kyme' is compounded of at least two distinct individuals, none of them an outlaw and none of them a disinherited elder son; many of the relationships he proposes within the Kyme family are quite unsupported by any contemporary evidence.

Does all this mean that Father Christmas does'nt exist eithe:huh:r?:huh:

A fascinating thread, to which I hope I shall be allowed to add my two penn'orth, with reference to the real corporeal existence of R H and the "proof" of his birth in Loxley.

As for the substantiality of Robin Hood, I’m with those who aren’t really concerned whether he can be identified as a historical character or only a myth serving changing cultural ideas and needs over time; I incline to the mythic existence more. His influence on changing ideologies and cultural values has been more important than whether he actually existed. However, that said, it remains to aim for some historical accuracy in looking at the versions and manifestations of the myth. Here we get, for instance, into the matter of the “Sloane manuscript” championed as evidence for locating R H in Loxley, and the claim that it predates the earliest printing of the Gest (The Gest itself is thought to date from the early or mid-15th century). Grahame, who posted this, does not give us the reference for this manuscript, but I find from my books on the R H legend that it is Sloane 780, formerly Sloane 715. (I may have a look at it next time I’m in the British Library). This is a composite manuscript, made up of several 15th-century items on astrology and geography, the memoir of R H (ff.46-8), a 15th-century calendar of church festivals, and three separate 17th-century moral poems. The memoir itself is on paper, in a typical secretary hand, and has been dated by all the modern authorities to c.1600. Since the first printings of the Gest are the Lettersnijder print (Antwerp) c.1510, the Wynkyn de Worde print (between 1492 and 1534) and Copland’s edition c.1560, it is clear that the prose memoir postdates them all. Sir Sidney Lee, in the collection of essays called Robin Hood, an Anthology of Scholarship and Criticism (1999), notes that the memoir is constructed from the earlier ballads, and even though it may be the first known to claim Loxley as the hero’s birthplace, it is clearly unauthentic and uncorroborated. The dating to the time of Richard I is merely taken from the line of chroniclers who copied each other, from John Major (1521) to Holinshed (1577), to Richard Grafton (1569), to John Stow (1580). Stow’s Annales, or a Generale Chronicle of England from Brute proved very popular, and was reprinted with additions and so should have been easily available to the compiler of the memoir. (My own copy dates from 1610 and does indeed say that “Robert Hood and little John remained in the woods, despoiling and robbing the goods of the rich” [and a bit more about him]. Incidentally, although I don’t know from where Grahame got his quotation of the beginning of the memoir, I can say that it was reprinted in A Collection of Early Prose Romances, edited by William Thoms (1828), of which fortunately I have a copy. The reprint preserves all the abbreviations and scribal practices of the copyist. Even conceding that this copy is a transcript of an earlier text, it cannot be much earlier, the flavour of the language is that of the later 16th century, and there is a telling remark within the text (p.40 of Thoms’ print):

“Of all saynts he most honoured ye virgin mary, so yt if any for her sake asked ought of him, he wold performe it if possibly he could, neither would he suffer any yt belonged vnto him to violate women poremen, or any of the husbandry, al theyr attempts were chiefly against fat prelates & religious persons & howses fryers, and he is commended of John Mayor[sic] for ye prince of all theyues & robbers &c” (my italics).

Forgive me if I’m in error here, but the reference must surely be to that same John Major whose chronicle dates from 1521, which disposes of any pre-1500 claims for this text. Moreover, the reference to the Pinder of Wakefield (“…after such maner he procurd ye pynner of wakefeyld to become one of his company”, p.39 of Thoms’ edition) is suspicious, because his exploits (as a trickster) only became popular from the mid-16th century. Although the earliest printed treatment is from 1632, a ballad about him was recorded in the Stationers' Register in 1557-58 (in the ballad recorded by Percy in the 18th century Robin battles against him, as he did against other figures in the ballads); and if we accept the date of the Sloane text as c.1600, we may note that Robert Greene’s play about the Pinder (1594) was published in 1599: A Pleasant Conceited Comedy of George-a-Greene, the Pinner of Wakefield, partly constructed out of an earlier ballad). On the contrary side, it has to be admitted, it is surprising that there is no mention of Maid Marion, who was a 16th-century addition to the legend, but perhaps the compiler was not interested in the hero’s romantic exploits.

Cumulatively, then, the evidence points to the Sloane text as being very late, compiled from preceding material, and not authentic. Even if it is the first text known to claim Loxley as the hero’s birthplace, this does not amount to very much. and since the various stories of Robin Hood lay some stress on places in Yorkshire and Lancashire principally, it might not be surprising if a reference to a Locksley was picked up somewhere and identified with the Yorkshire location, perhaps even in some lost ballad, though that is pure speculation. R. B. Dobson and J. Taylor, in their note on the Sloane manuscript (in Rymes of Robyn Hood (1976) conclude that “the Sloane Life’s identification of Robin Hood’s birth-place with the mysterious ‘Lockesley’ also derived from a now lost sixteenth century ballad than from any genuinely historical tradition”. Another possibility would be a derivation from one of the R H plays or May games which may have been associated with either the Warwickshire Locksley or the Yorkshire one; if the former, it could still have been picked up by the Sloane author and transferred to Yorkshire, given the general area of R H’s activity. These plays and games were very prolific: in a database assembled in the 1990s there are 136 citations before 1600, over fifty of them before 1537, and another fifty by 1577.

Incidentally, it is naïve to “prove” the existence of R H by quoting (post #49) the reference to him in Walter Bower's Scotichronicon of 1440 AD, especially when the poster does not bother to give us the date of the events he quotes (1266, during the Second Barons’ War of 1263-7). Plenty of time had elapsed between that date and Bower’s writing of his chronicle for the growing literature of R H to lead him to believe in the truth of the legend, and moreover, Bower is implying that the area of R H’s activities is in Warwickshire, whereas the development of the legend places him principally further north in Yorkshire and Lancashire, and even with influence in Scotland. Actually, the earliest Robin Hood surnames appear in Sussex before their association with further north.

The ramifications of the R H legend are many, and taken altogether they provide a fascinating insight into the changing values of the figure over time, some of which have been charted in sociological studies. R H is vital to the English literary and folklore heritage and is deeply engrained in English culture. All of this happened irrespective of whether such a figure ever existed; indeed, to try to find if he had a real existence is immaterial and diverts attention from his true importance as an icon for evolving ideologies in society.

All you say has been gone over and over with a fine tooth comb and of course you are right in all you say but my understanding was that the handwritten Sloane MS pre-dated the earliest printed copies, however. I respect your obvious knowledge and any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. By the way, there has been a big study done on the Robin Hood names and its etymology. Thanks.

Anyway to business: -
Roger Dodsworth wrote, “Robert Locksley, born in the Bradfield Parish of Hallamshire (Loxley) wounded his stepfather to death at plough, fled into the woods and was relieved by his mother till he was discovered. Then he came to Clifton upon Calder, and became acquainted with Little John, that kept the kine. Which said John is buried at Hathersage in Derbyshire where he hath a fair tombstone with an inscription. (This tallies with the Sloane MS)

Mr Long saith that Fabyan saith, Little John was Earl Huntley’s son. After, he joined with Much the Miller's’s son." (Bodleian Library MS. Dodsw. 160, fol. 64r)

I should check your reference for the Bodleian Library regarding the above, this is correct. (So I am told)

Dodsworth gives his sources which was unusual in those days. Robert Fabian was a well known historian who died AD1513.

Earl Huntly and his son i.e. Little John have been identified by another researcher who claims to have identified Robin Hood. He tells me Little John was Robin Hood’s cousin.

I'd have to check Dodsworth's manuscript for myself to see what sources he cites. And why didn't Dodsworth go direct to Fabian, instead of quoting him second hand from this Mr Long, whoever he was? And of course we needn't assume that historians, of any time, knew what they were talking about. I can't give a comprehensive reply now but perhaps I'll have to think about it. I imagine Dodsworth's own account was derivative--I'd love to track it down! To be fair, Dodsworth was a careful scholar and his collections have proved very valuable, but that doesn't negate the fact that he was of his time and as likely as anyone else to take something in written record as fact, rather than researching it critically.

The truth is out there somewhere...maybe we'll find it one day...

I'd have to check Dodsworth's manuscript for myself to see what sources he cites. And why didn't Dodsworth go direct to Fabian, instead of quoting him second hand from this Mr Long, whoever he was? And of course we needn't assume that historians, of any time, knew what they were talking about. I can't give a comprehensive reply now but perhaps I'll have to think about it. I imagine Dodsworth's own account was derivative--I'd love to track it down! To be fair, Dodsworth was a careful scholar and his collections have proved very valuable, but that doesn't negate the fact that he was of his time and as likely as anyone else to take something in written record as fact, rather than researching it critically.

The truth is out there somewhere...maybe we'll find it one day...

I hope so. :)

You see I take my inspiration from Dodsworth who identified the Hallamshire Loxley and the Sloane MS which identifies this Loxley by it's mention of the border dispute and there is no other Loxley that makes the claim, or any other place come to that, except for the Warwickshire Loxley which is a late fabrication by J.R. Planche who took up Stukleys flawed pedigree and published his paper, A Ramble with Robin Hood, in 1864.

I think it would have been a lot clearer if much of Dodsworths work hadn't gone up in smoke in a fire at Roach Abbey, but there we are.

I think we can all agree "Robin Hood" is a fictional name of a character who really existed in the Lincolnshire,South Yorkshire and Nottinghamshire area. At the time all Sheriffs, whether Sherrif of Nottingham or Sherrif of Rotherham had problem raising money to pay ransom monies for King Richard and others locked away in some European gaol. Money was taken and stolen from all over the land to pay ransoms of crusaders captured whilst returning from the holy land and it's easy to conjure up pictures of people being robbed to cover the price of ransoms. Joan (Mrs Sydneyozz)

Might I suggest reading Tony Robinson's book on Myths and Legends. He has done a lot of research and quotes from a number of authorities about the legend. Like King Arthur a lot of other legends have been added to a real character. May I also speak up for King John who was added to later accounts. He was not the terrible person he is painted as. His brother swanned off to the crusades and drained the country of money culminating in a huge ransome that had to be paid by John to get his brother released. John was not collecting taxes to line his pockets but to pay for his brothers profligacy.

Yes. I can agree. However, a fair amount of conflict can be created here. King John was the first King to make England into a royal realm with an English town as it's capital. He still ended up at Runymede as a result. The Church (or Rome) was the ultimate power and a thorn in the side of royalty. John wanted England. Richard was pleasing the Church and the general public believed in their church. "Robin Hood" or "Earl of Huntingdon" stole from the church and legend always couples him with King Richard. I will read Tony Robinson Myths and Legends if I can find a copy. thanks for the advice

I suppose when it came to having a "local" hero, Nottingham didn't have much choice. The only definite connection with a historic name was the Sherrif of Nottingham, but as he was obviously a baddie, taxing people to the hilt and being a bit of a bullying dictator, they couldn't really adopt him. So instead they chose the guy who kept nipping down the road from Loxley, with his mates to give him a good sorting. Obviously, transport then not being what it is now (???) he had to stay overnight, and chose Sherwood Forest so he could hide out of sight. The Great Oak was called that because it was a great meeting point for the gang, and was only a mere sapling then.
So as the only "heroic" figure to ever go through the Nottingham town gates, they've latched onto Robin Hood. I don't really mind, I know where he's really from. God's own county of Yorkshire, and the fair land of Hallam.

i'm a newbie to this forum and i agree with you completely,i thought everyone knew Robin Hood was from Sheffield,Notts just kidnapped him!

I was checking the old ancestry records and noticed there were several residents down south with the surname HOOD. I wonder where that surname was derived?

I was checking the old ancestry records and noticed there were several residents down south with the surname HOOD. I wonder where that surname was derived?

Hood was a common surname derived from the clothing industry. Also people took their name from the lie of the land and someone called 'sidebottom' would have lived on the valley side and 'bottom' would have lived in the valley bottom. Hood was an overhanging cliff which is another reason for the name. There may be other reasons also but I sometimes wonder if in the outlaws case it was a corruption of 'robber in whood?'

EDIT
Just thought I would add this:
(Compiled by National Research Organization - 527 Ninth St.., N.W. Wash., D.C.)

Origin:
The distinguished name of Hood is derived from the Saxon word "Houdt" meaning "the wood".

http://www.geocities.com/nchood/Sketch.html
.

Thanks for info. We learn something everyday and the Saxon conversion sounds right knowing England comprised Normans and Saxons both during the time of Prince John. Was Robin Hood a Norman or Saxon or a mixture of both. If he was raising money for the King's ransom, and the king was a Norman at that time, then the Saxons certainly would have told stories of a lad "robbin' in the houdt" or some careful advice in a saxon accent would be - " rob in't houdt". makes sense. (Mrs Sydneyozz)

The distinguished name of Hood is derived from the Saxon word "Houdt" meaning "the wood".

http://www.geocities.com/nchood/Sketch.html
.

Given that at the time of Richard / John etc most of the country was covered in forests / woods then I would have thought "Houdt" would be a rather common name - the "Smith" of its day perhaps?

Given that at the time of Richard / John etc most of the country was covered in forests / woods then I would have thought "Houdt" would be a rather common name - the "Smith" of its day perhaps?

Robert le Fevere in medieval England is today's Robert Smith. When Robert's son William was outlawed the court made a note against his name "William Robehod" meaning "Robber in whood?" The assumption from this is that it is not the real name of the legendary Robin Hood and that "robinhod" was more of a modus operandi. Robinhood is also synonymous with Knighthood and Priesthood, and Robberhood meaning a band of robbers is a term used by Mark Twain. This is one reason why those searching for someone called Robin Hood have failed to identify him due to it not being his real name but a description of his way of life.


Yes, outlaws made good use of England's forests. After the Conquest the nobility were dispossessed and had nowhere to go except into the woods. Eadric the Wild who fought against the invaders got his name because he was "living in the wild," another was Hereward the Wake. If they took to living in tents they were known as TILVATID. The Normans branded them all “Outlaws.” Orderic Vitalis says in his description of the English risings of that many of the rebels lived in tents, disdaining to sleep in houses lest they should become soft, so that certain of them were called by the Norman’s 'Silvatici' (one that lives in or frequents the woods).

At the Battle of Hastings the vanquished English fled to the surrounding countryside in fear of their lives. They were declared outlaws and this happened after any battle. Those who fought on the loosing side at the Battle of Burroughbridge fled to the woods around Barnsdale and the vanquished who fought at the Battle of Evesham fled many of them to Sherwood, every man jack of them having been outlawed and I'm sure none of them would have had any qualms about robbing from the rich.

So if you are trying to discover who Robin Hood was you need something that will identify your particular candidate as 'the' man and it helps if he was known as Robin Hood in real life, i.e. Lord Robert Dore of Loxley/Wadsley otherwise known as Robin Hood, but then we musn't forget the earlier Robert of Loxley who in 1247 was a yeoman in Huntingdon, holding land near William de Lovetot and it appears he was dispossessed in that year his land going to Roger de Lovetot who was the sheriff of Nottingham.

Interesting information and thank you. However, the era of Robin, was always set in King Henry Plantagenet, Prince John and then King Richard times. This is neither 1066 nor 1247 I have to admit the novels I have read around this era were written with some literary licence but by this time many of the norman nobiity had married with saxon ladies under orders from William the Conqueror. The saxons would not be living in tents for 1/2 hundred years. The picture I can see during the reign of King Henry II and then King Richard I is that of raising funds for the Crusades and the order of the day was to obtain the money from the churches; the problem being mainly religious. Forgive me if I am relying on my novel reading ( E. Chadwick writes many novels set in this period). I always preferred to read about the Tudor dynasty however I am now finding my interest moving to the Norman/Plantagenet. Were any of the battles you mention fought during 1150's/1200? My knowledge of battles not being my favourite topic.

The battle of Evesham was fought on the morning of the 4th August 1265 (Henry III) and the Battle of Burrowbridge was 1322 (Edward II) so they did not take place in the era you mention 1150's/1200. The truth of the matter is that we do not have a date for Robin Hood's life other than his grave? at Kirklees which is 1247AD.

Here is a little something about the grave.

Roger Dodsworth (1585 -1664), an impressive early antiquarian, compiled elements for a history of Yorkshire by copying muniments from all available repositories. He visited John Armytage III of Kirklees in January 1618 , and transcribed the Kirklees foundation charter and a number of other early documents for the Priory and the neighbouring manors of Clifton and Hartshead. He also transcribed Armytage's copy of the 'Eland Feud'.

In a manuscript in the Bodleian, Dodsworth writes of a local legend in which Robert Locksley came to Clifton upon Calder where he met Little John. The strength of this local legend is indicated by its reappearance 130 years later in the notes of Joseph Ismay, who could not have had access to Dodsworth's notes: "Little John was an ancestor of ye Naylors of Clifton". (Little John's bow at Hathersage and the grave are those of John Naylor GK) Additionally, Dodsworth noted a doggerel rhyme: "Clifton standes on Calder bancke / and Harteshead on a hill / Kirkeleyes standes within the dale / and many comes ther still" which both Ismay and Hunter felt was part of a lost Robin Hood ballad . Although there are risks taking this local saying literally, it could imply that (as a result of the grave being adjacent to the old road to Clifton) that there were a number of "tourists" or at least visitors to the grave even by 1618.

Another early reference is found in the 1622 poem Poly-Olbion by Drayton, where a brief reference is made to the grave at Kirklees in the twenty-eighth song , ten years before Martin Parker published his Life of Robin Hood in 1632 , giving, for the first time the alleged epitaph . A version of his epitaph was finally fixed to the grave in the mid eighteenth century.

Kirklees' connections with Robin Hood retained their interest through the remainder of the 17th century and beyond. Dr Nathaniel Johnston, an antiquarian who lived at Pontefract, and began assembling a substantial body of material for a history of Yorkshire, was also physician to the wife of Sir John Armitage IV of Kirklees and visited the Hall and estate in 1669, when either he or his brother Henry, drew the armorial devices . It is also alleged that he drew Robin Hood's Grave, which would be in keeping with his normal practices of recording monumental and armorial inscriptions. His original drawing is however, probably lost amongst papers lent out for copying , so the provenance of the version published in the YAJ needs careful consideration.

Your knowledge of historical records has to be complimented. We have to wonder why the story of Robin was set in the time of the first three Plantagenets. He even appears again in the story of Ivanhoe by Scott again the same reigns, with the knight templars predominant. His character coupled with that of the early Plantagenet kings has been represented by many film stars and he has never been seen in any other time. However, his bowmanship and that of many an englishman has to be praised in many a battle against England's enemies during the later Plantagenet reigns. Now I have some new research to do at the library.

Your knowledge of historical records has to be complimented. We have to wonder why the story of Robin was set in the time of the first three Plantagenets. He even appears again in the story of Ivanhoe by Scott again the same reigns, with the knight templars predominant. His character coupled with that of the early Plantagenet kings has been represented by many film stars and he has never been seen in any other time. However, his bowmanship and that of many an englishman has to be praised in many a battle against England's enemies during the later Plantagenet reigns. Now I have some new research to do at the library.

Good luck with the research. :)

Alastair you're just trying to score points what people are saying is he came from what is now called South Yorkshire. I do believe from what I read on this forum previously that Robin Hoode used a gang from the area to persuade land owners to hand their land over to the " Earl " for a pittance. The Sheriff of Nottingham opposed him but the myth like many others was romantisised and changed. Much of what Shakespeare wrote about Richard 111 was fiction because Shakespeare was a catholic and supported the Lancastrians. Bligh of Bounty fame was another story which was not true in essence, or rather the reason for the mutiny wasn't. Coming to more modern times the 9/11 story is a load of bunkum, no 757 flew into the Pentagon, the flight Data Recorder proves that. I have researched 9/11 since the day it happened and it was an inside job.