It seems as if the UK is following the US trend in road transport choice. practically everyone is buying huge fuel guzzling 4X4's because they have now become status symbols, and more a sign of male virility than the traditional English sports car or fully kitted up Saburu. In the states, you are measured by how FEW miles per gallon your 4X4 jeep or truck can do, and how BIG your engine is. if you are not driving a massive jeep or 4x4 truck, forget it....you simply don't exist.....and the same is starting to happen here, and Sheffield is a good example.

How many extra jeeps and 4x4's are appearing on the roads. Not just the crazy mothers taking the kids to school and having to do a 23 point turn in the school car park to get the Land Rover Discovery back out the gates, but it seems the male craze to be seen in a BIG jeep is taking off. Talking to people I know in the industry and the signs are jeep and 4x4 sales are going sky high, not just for that essential winter transport in snow either, but just to 'look cool'.

People either love or hate 4x4's as a rule in the UK, and seem to fall into one of these categories. Which one are you? Are you a proud Grand Cherokee owner? Never seen in Tesco car park without your Discovery? Can't go to Meadowhell unless at the wheel of your Shogun? Want the most gas guzzling monster jeep/truck you can get your hands on? Measure your virility in CC engine size? Are you a farmer or someone who seriously needs one for work? Live in area where roads are never gritted? Do you off-road every weekend and think driving a 4x4 as a day to day vehicle in town is a joke? Take the kids to school in the old 4x4?

The UK usually follows the US in fashion and culture, and we are now fast becoming a 4x4 nation of gas guzzling monsters, where you drive just 50 miles and need to stop off for more fuel and to hell with the environment

I just bought a 4x4 but only a 1992 Fourtrak turbo diesel so not for prestige or status, but because I live on a hill on the very edge of Sheffield that is not gritted, and sliding about getting stuck on ice in a Ford Fiesta is not much fun when you need to be somewhere, so its purely for practical business use, and off-roading in the Summer is the plan too.....

I rent a lot of vehicles and came across the Saturn Vue, its handling is more car like than any other SUV and so can perform more the all round purpose.

I'm in the building industry traveling on dangerous roads and need a vehicle that a) can get to the job safely, b)can carry large amounts of tools, c)is also practical to show up to meeting in without looking like a pauper, d) keep my self and passengers safe from all the loonies out there. e) can tow a big trailer, without trailer breaks mine can pull 2.5 tones.

The car is a 3.5lt five speed auto with 252 break horse so performs admirable with its all wheel drive and traction control, but for around town I have a Gallant 2.4 ES.

I have noticed though that I have to disagree with you on whose falic symbol we are talking about, most drivers of SUV's seem to be women and a high proportion of little women at that.

I'm more concerned about scutters driving about with bald tyres and bad brakes.

I have noticed though that I have to disagree with you on whose falic symbol we are talking about, most drivers of SUV's seem to be women and a high proportion of little women at that.

Indeed - I often have to 'look again' to make sure there is actually someone at the wheel :hihi:...they haven't a clue how wide their vehicle is but wouldn't go anywhere near the verge anyway for fear of getting the tyres dirty :rolleyes:

practically everyone is buying huge fuel guzzling 4X4's because they have now become status symbols,

Practically everyone huh? Top 10 car sales by model in the UK for Nov 2007 are (courtesy of Tiscali's Motoring site):

1. Ford Focus
2. Vauxhall Astra
3. Ford Fiesta
4. Vauxhall Corsa
5. Volkswagon Golf
6. Peugeot 207
7. BMW 3 Series
8. Mini
9. Vauxhall Zafira
10. Renault Megane.

Rather more 1.4 and 1.6 engines there than 3 litre plus, I would have thought.....

too many words...
my car happens to bw 4wd, it's an estate, no bigger than a van. what's the problem?

I need mine to pull my caravan.....end of !

I need mine to pull my caravan.....end of !
snap - i have an audi A4 quattro (about the same size as a mondeo).

SUVs in the USA only took place of the old station wagons that you don't see anymore, few years back you could pile 7 or more kids into a wagon and take them to their school baseball game, now every one has to have a seat belt, we have two SUVs, i feel much safer being higher up in a car, also as you get older I myself find it hard to get in and out of those small low cars.

I also needed my 4x4 this week so i can get out of my drive way, and more snow & ice on it's way.

too many words...
my car happens to bw 4wd, it's an estate, no bigger than a van. what's the problem?

I don't think that people who have problems with '4x4s' actually mean 4x4s, they mean SUVs.

I have no problem with people having a go at cars that use too much fuel, but lets not single out SUVs just because they are expensive and popular, this is just jealousy. There are many sports cars, cars with large engines, cars that are not looked after, that use just as much, or almost as much, fuel as an SUV.

i have a jeep cherokee 4.0 and love it

i wanted to vote on so many of the poll options.
we have a 4x4 for winter use and towing horse boxes and water bowsers. although i bet the neaderthals who like to complain won't realise that when my wife drives it into the city centre.
we also have a new Shogun Sport Equippe in the immediate family.

I read somewhere that Britain was fast becoming a 4X4 nation, so that's why I posted the poll. I do see a huge number of them on the roads though, but I guess this is amplified a lot if you live in rural areas......

I also have a Jeep 4.0 the thing is good at what it does i dont care about fuel consumption or the enviroment I just want to get where I am going in the snow and ice

Maybe if the council filled in a few potholes every now and then they'd be less popular?

our 4x4 runs or veg oil & diesel so is better for the enviroment .. (and legal)

used to offroad most weekends and tow caravan ...

Good safe truck... more concerned that there are drivers with no insurance, no licence's, vehicle's in bad condition and no common sense...

as for judging width of vehicle thats not that fault of the truck but the drivers skills ..

as for judging width of vehicle thats not that fault of the truck but the drivers skills ..

Only yesterday afternoon Tesco car park witnessed not one but TWO 4x4 owners, both female as it happens, one with a Mitsubishi wotsit and the other with a grand Cherokee: the first (Mitsubishe)tried to reverse park into one space and totally cocked it up big time, on the 3rd attempt ended up scraping her door and bending someones else's mirror, and the second just parked and took up TWO parking spaces with the Cherokee, and made no attempt to try and fit it into one space, which it would have done with a little bit of skill.

My only comment must be that if you have such a large jeep/truck, perhaps spend a bit of time practicing parallel and reverse parking, because it is dramatically more difficult to park a Grand Jerokee on the first attempt than it is a Vauxhall Corsa!!!!!

you are talking about women drivers now though

There is one main point why people have 4x4 in Sheffield :D Its simple , we are The City Of Potholes :rant:, the people who have 4x4's dont have to spend half there life in Kwik Fit spending even more money on bits that have fallen off due to the roads:suspect:, Smart move on there part i say :D

My only comment must be that if you have such a large jeep/truck, perhaps spend a bit of time practicing parallel and reverse parking, because it is dramatically more difficult to park a Grand Jerokee on the first attempt than it is a Vauxhall Corsa!!!!!

I agree.. they should know how long and wide the vehicle is... but I'v also seen people park smaller cars and you need a bus to get to the kerb!! A friend of mine had KA and used to constantly bump into mirrors.. bollards and bumbers..

as for the coments on women drivers... some good and some bad drivers both men and women.

I work for a HUGE firm and the accidents that drivers have are 40/60 women to men.. and alot due to lack of knowledge for size of vehicle and judging distances.

I have problems with 4x4s or whatever they are called, ok the minority have valid reasons for owning them but IMO most are used by women to do the school runs, one certain female actually drives right up to the gates, passes all the parked cars and pulls up on the zig zag lines and waits for the kids to come out, it makes my blood boil. :rant:

Poll dosen't say.....I'm jealous of 4x4 drivers, wish I had one.

pole dosent say, I hate 4x4s and wouldnt have one if I was a millionaire

we have a mitsubishi shogun and this is the 3rd we have had i have 4 children 2 of who are disabled this car is brilliant for all of our needs it has large boot space etc and my disabled kids are more than catered for in it so for us not just because its a 4x4 but just because of the practicality of it

SUVs in the USA only took place of the old station wagons that you don't see anymore, few years back you could pile 7 or more kids into a wagon and take them to their school baseball game, now every one has to have a seat belt, we have two SUVs, i feel much safer being higher up in a car, also as you get older I myself find it hard to get in and out of those small low cars.

I also needed my 4x4 this week so i can get out of my drive way, and more snow & ice on it's way.

A key point here is that you feel safer. The reality is that you aren't.

A key point here is that you feel safer. The reality is that you aren't.

Where do you get this from, my SUV has 19inch wheels with 14inch clearance and tough suspension. A few month back I was on the freeway and a very large arctic truck didn't notice the traffic was stopped, he braked and tried to swerve but only succeeded in rolling his truck over the last five cars in the line, I was number 2 slot but I was able to push out of the line and go up an grassy embankment with my power all wheel drive and traction controller, the guys in the cars had no where to go and were completely flattened.

Fact is my SUV saved my life.

I couldn't vote in the poll because there was no option for "I do not own a 4x4 but we live in a socio-capitalist democracy in which people are entitled to drive any car they choose to spend their money on".

The main reason I have a 4x4 is to allow me to tow a 2 ton trailer safely. We often end up parked on wet grass so trying to pull that sort of weight in a 2wd car would be a recipe for sinking up to the axles in mud.

As has already been mentioned some 4x4s aren't too bad on fuel, I can easily get 30mpg on my commute, more on the motorway.

Why should I feel the need to justify my personal choice to goldenfleece? :roll:

There is one main point why people have 4x4 in Sheffield :D Its simple , we are The City Of Potholes :rant:, the people who have 4x4's dont have to spend half there life in Kwik Fit spending even more money on bits that have fallen off due to the roads:suspect:, Smart move on there part i say :D

Classic Quote :D

I couldn't vote in the poll because there was no option for "I do not own a 4x4 but we live in a socio-capitalist democracy in which people are entitled to drive any car they choose to spend their money on".

absolutely who cares:huh::huh::huh::huh::huh:

Where do you get this from, my SUV has 19inch wheels with 14inch clearance and tough suspension. A few month back I was on the freeway and a very large arctic truck didn't notice the traffic was stopped, he braked and tried to swerve but only succeeded in rolling his truck over the last five cars in the line, I was number 2 slot but I was able to push out of the line and go up an grassy embankment with my power all wheel drive and traction controller, the guys in the cars had no where to go and were completely flattened.

Fact is my SUV saved my life.

A very specific anecdote.
In testing of more common safety features, ie when you are involved in a collision, stability, etc... It's only recently (last year, maybe 2) that SUV style vehicles have become as safe as your average saloon car. Older vehicles particularly had stability problems and would often roll in the event of an accident (more often than your average car), which is obviously not a good feature.
Look up the euro ncap report for your car and find out how safe it really is.

I guess the reason people should justify it and the reason people care is that we live in a society where the actions of one have an affect on many others.
Certain kinds of behaviour are harmful and driving an SUV has been singled out as unnecessarily polluting, mainly because it's quite an easy behaviour to spot. It could just as easily be having your thermostat set at 25 degrees. Behaving without social conscience is selfish, and no one likes selfish people.

I also have a Jeep 4.0 the thing is good at what it does i dont care about fuel consumption or the enviroment I just want to get where I am going in the snow and ice

wow, you're my hero :/

Funny thing is that I'm sure you children and your grandchildren WILL care very much.

Glad you have your me, me, me priorities in order over there.

wow, you're my hero :/

Funny thing is that I'm sure you children and your grandchildren WILL care very much.

Glad you have your me, me, me priorities in order over there.

perhaps if you care so much about children and grandchildren we'd stop buying them electrical devices which they leave on standby all the time.

perhaps if you care so much about children and grandchildren we'd stop buying them electrical devices which they leave on standby all the time.

You know that I do this because you have been to my house and followed me around throughout my day right?

You know that I do this because you have been to my house and followed me around throughout my day right?

which was why i knew it wasn't directed at you - but the public in general.:D

which was why i knew it wasn't directed at you - but the public in general.:D

ah, apologies.... lack of sleep makes me cranky :p

wow, you're my hero :/

Funny thing is that I'm sure you children and your grandchildren WILL care very much.

Glad you have your me, me, me priorities in order over there.

Fortunately I don’t have any hope I never do, expensive, noisy, smelly things far too much hassle for me. And as for cutting back on oil consumption if we don’t burn it all, the Chinese will so pull out your diesel/ electric motor and shoehorn in a big V8. Enjoy it while it lasts I say

A key point here is that you feel safer. The reality is that you aren't.

Yes you believe that just up to the point of impact with the bull bars on my jeep, and then I think you may change your mind

Fortunately I don’t have any hope I never do, expensive, noisy, smelly things far too much hassle for me. And as for cutting back on oil consumption if we don’t burn it all, the Chinese will so pull out your diesel/ electric motor and shoehorn in a big V8. Enjoy it while it lasts I say

'The Chinese'? What? When did this become an issue of race?

I'm completely lost. I thought the matter at hand was the increasing number of 4x4s on the road and the uses thereof....

'The Chinese'? What? When did this become an issue of race?

I'm completely lost. I thought the matter at hand was the increasing number of 4x4s on the road and the uses thereof....

I give china as an example of certain countries that are rapidly developing at a pace greater than us, who will gobble up most of the world’s recourses whilst we are trying to conserve them. It is not limited to china but they are a good example. And no its not racist I am actually paying them a compliment if you could see that thru your left wing do goodie views. A gallon of petrol currently costs the equivalent of 12 pence in China and they are opening a new power station every day. They are importing so much steel they are almost totally responsible for the fact that scrap steel prices are at the highest for years.
And to all the lefties who are bound to respond what’s wrong with that I say nothing at all good luck to them, but lets get some for ourselves whilst we can. Eventually we will lose it so lets enjoy using it now.

I give china as an example of certain countries that are rapidly developing at a pace greater than us, who will gobble up most of the world’s recourses whilst we are trying to conserve them. It is not limited to china but they are a good example. And no its not racist I am actually paying them a compliment if you could see that thru your left wing do goodie views. A gallon of petrol currently costs the equivalent of 12 pence in China and they are opening a new power station every day. They are importing so much steel they are almost totally responsible for the fact that scrap steel prices are at the highest for years.
And to all the lefties who are bound to respond what’s wrong with that I say nothing at all good luck to them, but lets get some for ourselves whilst we can. Eventually we will lose it so lets enjoy using it now.

My left wing goodie views huh? Surely being a lefty is better than be an uber consumer that promotes greed? In any event, I was merely asking for clarification as you post was vague.

Use it or lose it.... hmmm.... if we all thought like that about every natural resource wouldn't the world be fabulous? :/

Check, check... back on topic.

I guess the reason people should justify it and the reason people care is that we live in a society where the actions of one have an affect on many others.
Certain kinds of behaviour are harmful and driving an SUV has been singled out as unnecessarily polluting, mainly because it's quite an easy behaviour to spot. It could just as easily be having your thermostat set at 25 degrees. Behaving without social conscience is selfish, and no one likes selfish people.

A lot of 4x4s are less polluting than sports cars, camper vans, etc. So why pick out 4x4s in particular? From your past posts I have picked up that you yourself drive (or drove) a car that does about 25mpg. And this argument of polluting only holds weight if you're taken in by the global warming con in any case.

Yes you believe that just up to the point of impact with the bull bars on my jeep, and then I think you may change your mind

Oh, I quite believe that your vehicle is more dangerous to everyone else, but that certainly doesn't make it any safer for you. Another good example of selfishness though.

A lot of 4x4s are less polluting than sports cars, camper vans, etc. So why pick out 4x4s in particular? From your past posts I have picked up that you yourself drive (or drove) a car that does about 25mpg. And this argument of polluting only holds weight if you're taken in by the global warming con in any case.

I didn't pick them out, I just explained why someone might ask for justification for using such a vehicle.

MPG isn't the only important thing about car economy. Cradle to grave measurements indicate that production pollution makes up about 40% of the pollution over a vehicles lifetime! (Something for prius owners to consider with their non disposable and non recyclable batteries).
There is no con, climate change is happening and the evidence suggests that our activities are playing a part in that. I personally think that a focus on personal consumption is missing the point somewhat as industry has a far larger impact. You don't concentrate on reducing a 5% contributor and ignore the 95% contributor, at least if you're serious about reducing the overall output.

My left wing goodie views huh? Surely being a lefty is better than be an uber consumer that promotes greed? Actually, no - being a lefty isn't better than anything, dysentery included.

Check this out

http://www.katu.com/news/7561002.html

Not that the poll is slightly biasd 8 x 4 against having a 4x4 mostly envy i think. Without actually asking why people have something they want and need, not what you think they should have. This subject has been done to death. I wish someone could actually think of something useful to talk about.

the main reason that men drive 4 x 4s is to make them feel powerful on the road, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, you only need to look at a) their faces as they're driving which are very often sneering and cold and b) the style of driving which is very often aggressive and impatient. the styling of modern 4 x 4s is geared towards the vehicle looking dangerous and powerful - most people try and justify their reasons for purchase with various transparent smokescreens. the bottom line is, if you need a powerful vehicle to make you feel powerful you've got a lot to learn and you'd benefit from actually dealing with your feelings of inadequacy rather than using the placebo of a car. actually, if you hanker after power in any way shape or form, you've got a lot to learn, but that's a separate subject.

theres a very funny article on the satirical news site newsbiscuit.com here called "sports cars to display drivers' pen*s size" (http://newsbiscuit.com/article/sports-cars-to-display-drivers-penis-size) which could just as easily be about 4 x 4s....although check out the last para, which is about 4 x 4s. hilarious. :)

having said all that, i want a 4 x 4, but not something naff like a mitsubishi shogun
with tinted windows (rolls eyes.) i want an old army landrover into which we can chuck dirty mountain bikes and camping equipment.

This subject has been done to death. I wish someone could actually think of something useful to talk about.

well don't click on the thread then. start a new, interesting thread. posters going onto threads they're not interested in and whining about how boring they are is one of the most hackneyed things on the net and has been, er, done to death. :hihi:

well don't click on the thread then. start a new, interesting thread. posters going onto threads they're not interested in and whining about how boring they are is one of the most hackneyed things on the net and has been, er, done to death. :hihi:
When a thread has a poll attached its for all people to vote not just the anti 4x4 sheep,:confused: or would you stop people from voting just because they don't agree with you?

I bought mine last year because of my dog. He is a big lad and needed the boot space for him to be comfortable.

[QUOTE=the white rose;2945924]the main reason that men drive 4 x 4s is to make them feel powerful on the road, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, you only need to look at a) their faces as they're driving which are very often sneering and cold and b) the style of driving which is very often aggressive and impatient. the styling of modern 4 x 4s is geared towards the vehicle looking dangerous and powerful - most people try and justify their reasons for purchase with various transparent smokescreens. the bottom line is, if you need a powerful vehicle to make you feel powerful you've got a lot to learn and you'd benefit from actually dealing with your feelings of inadequacy rather than using the placebo of a car. actually, if you hanker after power in any way shape or form, you've got a lot to learn, but that's a separate subject.

QUOTE]

What a load of rubbish, let me guess a left wing, lesbian, anti nuke supporter still bitter about no more Greenham common to go to make a nuisance of themselves

practically everyone is buying huge fuel guzzling 4X4's

mmm, my 4x4 does 35mpg average...... a lot better than older cars that are still on the road. Hey I'm going to start an "cars older that 5 years should be banned from the roads thread as they are fuel guzzlers" :hihi:

Not that the poll is slightly biasd 8 x 4 against having a 4x4 mostly envy i think. Without actually asking why people have something they want and need, not what you think they should have. This subject has been done to death. I wish someone could actually think of something useful to talk about.

Why is envy always trotted out, I could swap my car for something unnecessarily large if I wanted, but I don't, they're big, fat, ugly, dangerous and everybody but the drivers of them hates the drivers of them.

mmm, my 4x4 does 35mpg average...... a lot better than older cars that are still on the road. Hey I'm going to start an "cars older that 5 years should be banned from the roads thread as they are fuel guzzlers" :hihi:

Yes I was referring to the American versions really I guess.....most decent UK ones do a good 30 MPG on diesel.....mine does....and thats a 2.8 turbo diesel....the petrol versions are notoriously thirsty though, I had one earlier this year that did 18 MPG and it had to go, was filling it every day!!!

And as for cars older than 5 years, both my 1982 Fiestas do a good 34MPG....hardly a fuel guzzler.....

Why is envy always trotted out, I could swap my car for something unnecessarily large if I wanted, but I don't, they're big, fat, ugly, dangerous and everybody but the drivers of them hates the drivers of them.

careful - we could get confused with BMW drivers.

It's a risk you'll have to take. :D

Yes I was referring to the American versions really I guess.....most decent UK ones do a good 30 MPG on diesel.....mine does....and thats a 2.8 turbo diesel....the petrol versions are notoriously thirsty though, I had one earlier this year that did 18 MPG and it had to go, was filling it every day!!!

And as for cars older than 5 years, both my 1982 Fiestas do a good 34MPG....hardly a fuel guzzler.....

Compared to a modern Fiesta which probably returns 50+...

Why is envy always trotted out, I could swap my car for something unnecessarily large if I wanted, but I don't, they're big, fat, ugly, dangerous and everybody but the drivers of them hates the drivers of them.

quite....and dont get me started on the danger to pedestrians of bull bars....

What a load of rubbish, let me guess a left wing, lesbian, anti nuke supporter still bitter about no more Greenham common to go to make a nuisance of themselves


excuse me ridgeracer, let me just clarify. you're accusing me of being a lesbian, as if being a lesbian is a bad thing, which makes you homophobic.

are you homophobic, ridgeracer? i don't think homophobia is permitted on this board.

fyi ive got three children and a grandson btw. i just think most men who choose to drive mitsubishi shoguns with black tinted windows and then proceed to drive very badly, all the while thinking they are superior to other drivers, have got "issues."

that has got nothing to do with my choice of sexual partner or my political leanings.

what a completely ridiculous post.

My my, when's the fist fight going to start, I could sell tickets.

Capitalist WASP here staking my claim, LOL!!!

Many years ago i had an old ex-army series 3 landrover swb.. it was slow, uncomfortable and noisy but it was bulletproof (unbreakable) it could go anywhere, i took it off roading many times through woods ( not on tracks) through floods as deep as the bonnet and its 21/4 diesel engine was very economical sheff to corby (liecs) and back on less than a tenner. I loved it for what it was and did and even the enviromentalists seemed to respect it as they dont 'chelsea tractors' even now 'proper' landrovers dont receive the beef other 4x4's get.
But that was the only 4x4 i have ever owned and it was circumstances that made me come by it at the time, generaly i dont have any love nor hate of 4x4's they are just vehicles driven by choice of the owner.
What does puzzle me however is 4x4 drivers use of the vehicle, i loved any excuse to take my old landy off road even if it wasnt necsacerry, it was just fun to do so, only today however i was traveling down a narrow country lane in my large sprinter van (needed for work) comming the opposite way was a very shiny rangerover sport with big chrome wheels, chrome mirrors and tinted windows, i pulled over right into the edge of the road with jagged rocks sticking out of the embankment missing my van by millimetres giving the range rover plenty of room to get through (open field on his side) but meant him driving his left wheels through some mud.... he would not do this and as a result spent 5 mins faffing about fretting over his shiny wheels, in the end i ended up reversing my 20foot long van using only the wing mirrors uphill through a winding lane in the evening dark ( no problem there, im a professional lol) just so he could get past without getting his 'tough off roader' on the mud!!! when he passed and thanked me i noticed that the gold chain around his neck would have been better suited keeping the anchor attatched to an oil tanker.

This kind of thing seems to justify the arguement against 4x4's and why non owners of 4x4's dislike them so much

quite....and dont get me started on the danger to pedestrians of bull bars....

Its not the bullbars that are a danger to pedestrains. Next time you see a 4x4 look at how high they are off the ground compared to your average car.

If hit by a 4x4 with or without bullbars you are more than likely to end up going under the vehicle with severe injuries to your abdomen where as if hit by your average car you would sustain injury to your legs and end up more than likely rolling off the bonet and being throw to the side of the car. Im not saying this is gospel but thats probably what would happen.

I have bullbars on my 4x4 and would never remove them. Some idiot pulled out at a junction a few weeks ago right infront of me, I hit him at about 30mph in a 40 zone. Had my vehicle not had bullbars it would most probably have cost a fortune to repair and maybe even written my motor off all because some idiot was late for work but because I had bullbars it cost me £10 for a new indicator lense and thats it.

Why is envy always trotted out, I could swap my car for something unnecessarily large if I wanted, but I don't, they're big, fat, ugly, dangerous and everybody but the drivers of them hates the drivers of them.
All you really need to do is read the poll questions and your statement about envy falls down so far its insignificant. Really quite laughable.

excuse me ridgeracer, let me just clarify. you're accusing me of being a lesbian, as if being a lesbian is a bad thing, which makes you homophobic.

are you homophobic, ridgeracer? i don't think homophobia is permitted on this board.

.

Far from it White Rose the truth is I love Lesbians especially in pairs!!!!!!!!!!

To tell the truth I've always had a hankering for a REAL SUV, and have just put a bid in on a unimog, take a look here, its the green radio version.

http://unimogwherehaus.com/trucks404.html

To tell the truth I've always had a hankering for a REAL SUV, and have just put a bid in on a unimog, take a look here, its the green radio version.

http://unimogwherehaus.com/trucks404.html

Very nice but what you really want is a Hummer now that is a machine to plough the road with. Cruse down Ecclesall road in one of those and see em all scatter especially if you go for the full bull bar anti missile pack :hihi::hihi::hihi:

Its not the bullbars that are a danger to pedestrains. Next time you see a 4x4 look at how high they are off the ground compared to your average car.

If hit by a 4x4 with or without bullbars you are more than likely to end up going under the vehicle with severe injuries to your abdomen where as if hit by your average car you would sustain injury to your legs and end up more than likely rolling off the bonet and being throw to the side of the car. Im not saying this is gospel but thats probably what would happen.

I have bullbars on my 4x4 and would never remove them. Some idiot pulled out at a junction a few weeks ago right infront of me, I hit him at about 30mph in a 40 zone. Had my vehicle not had bullbars it would most probably have cost a fortune to repair and maybe even written my motor off all because some idiot was late for work but because I had bullbars it cost me £10 for a new indicator lense and thats it.

What you say about the high front is true, but bullbars also increase the risk. The reason being that most body work flexes under impact, bullbars are specifically designed not to do this, they transfer the force to the chassis instead of through sheets of relatively thin metal.

All you really need to do is read the poll questions and your statement about envy falls down so far its insignificant. Really quite laughable.

That might apply to the OP then, but to try to apply it to anyone who doesn't like them is ludicrous.

That might apply to the OP then, but to try to apply it to anyone who doesn't like them is ludicrous.


Why not when the reason they don't like them is childish envy? I would suggest you read the thread again before you drop yourself further in it with more silly statements

When I'm on Ecclesall road how does anyone know that I don't use my 4x4 off road, or for some other equally suitable purpose?

Why not when the reason they don't like them is childish envy? I would suggest you read the thread again before you drop yourself further in it with more silly statements

Just repeating a statement doesn't make it true.
I don't like them, and it's certainly not envy. Trying to claim it is just makes you look foolish.

Just repeating a statement doesn't make it true.
I don't like them, and it's certainly not envy. Trying to claim it is just makes you look foolish.

Its you that keeps repeating yourself. Why do you do that is it just to boost your post count?

Nah, Hummers get out of the way of a Unimog, I hired one last summer and the effect on the road was startling, no one tried to pull out in front of me and everyone gave me a wide berth on the freeway, fantastic absolutely fantastic.

This guy came up to me in a car park and asked where in hells teeth would I go with "that thing" just as I got out taking up four parking spots, I said anywhere I want mate, absolutely anywhere.

As an incidental the US Marine Corps use um in favour of the Hummer H1, just like they use the Sea Harrier, only the best for the Gyreens, semper fi, my friend, semper fi.

Ive got one , a 4.3 V8 and I love it . It's a lot nicer to drive than my Mondeo diesel . And to be honest on a run with the caravan on it uses about the same amount of fuel.

Its you that keeps repeating yourself. Why do you do that is it just to boost your post count?

No, because people like you don't understand something if it's said just once.
What makes you think that I envy 4x4 drivers?

No, because people like you don't understand something if it's said just once.
What makes you think that I envy 4x4 drivers?

You're probably the most tenacious member of a forum I have ever seen. Congratulations. :banana:

Do I get an award?

Honestly, I'd rather not have to repeat four times that not everyone who dislikes 4x4's is jealous of them, it's pretty obvious that they aren't (some are, I'm not saying no one is jealous, just not all). So why would anyone argue that I personally am jealous of them, it's stupid, not based on anything other than opinion and wrong.

Yes you get an award. The statue to commemorate it is of a small and pesky Yorkshire Terrier. :hihi:

Far from it White Rose the truth is I love Lesbians especially in pairs!!!!!!!!!!

:hihi: excellent answer :)

I have a big 4x4 but it does 35MPG (thats miles per gallon). and there british (well used to be :() yes thats right its a jaguar all wheel drive 2.5litres how many cars with a 2.5 v6 be able to do 35mpg? not many.

I bought mine for the snow on un gritted roads, an i have learnt how to drive it as well in the snow as a 4x4 system is still no good unless you know how to use it as all four wheels now have the ability to be over powered and spin.

plus it really doesnt look to bad it basically looks like every other jaguar out there and it does well over double the mpg than the last 2.5 i had (alfa romeo)..

not all 4x4's are gas guzzlers either as it is down to the owner to properly service and maintain there cars as often as possible and this means checking the correct tyre pressures for the car (normally found on a sticker on inside of door or service manual) and when was the last time you saw a 10 year old car in the dealers waiting to be serviced all of my cars have always been in the dealers at least 2ce a year.

I bought mine for the snow on un gritted roads, an i have learnt how to drive it as well in the snow as a 4x4 system is still no good unless you know how to use it as all four wheels now have the ability to be over powered and spin.
.

because that happens for what 1 or 2 days a year?

I don't think that is the only reason you bought it. Come on admit, you bought for how it makes you look and feel.

I don't think that is the only reason you bought it. Come on admit, you bought for how it makes you look and feel.

I realy doubt that they got it because of how it make them look and feel, jags arnt your typical big 4X4.
The all wheel drive ones look the same as the real wheel drive and correct me if im wrong have the same engine any way, so theres not going to be much of a difference in emisions as well.

I have a big 4x4 but it does 35MPG (thats miles per gallon). and there british (well used to be :() yes thats right its a jaguar all wheel drive 2.5litres how many cars with a 2.5 v6 be able to do 35mpg? not many.

I bought mine for the snow on un gritted roads, an i have learnt how to drive it as well in the snow as a 4x4 system is still no good unless you know how to use it as all four wheels now have the ability to be over powered and spin.



That's not a reason to buy a 4 x 4 saloon car. The reason for buying a saloon is for the improved road holding. You're as bad as the 4 x 4 off roaders who never go off road in your badge engineered glorified Mondeo. Oh and it's an Indian car now!

It's nice to see another one of these threads......
They normally turn into an anti 4x4 thread, quite amusing.

I wanted another car, so I sold my 4x4 and fancying a change I bought a sports saloon. Lovely little motor, umpteen to the gallon, 0-60 in the blink of an eye, stuck to the road like **** to a blanket, low emisions, cheap tax, etc etc.
BUT after driving a 4x4 with great suspension, suspension seats, built for comfort etc etc, I found myself driving like an erratic drunk, trying to dodge the potholes around the North (forgotten part) of Sheffield.
And boy it's not untill you drive a saloon that you realise how bad the roads are. They are falling apart, breaking up, dissolving, evaporating, but definately not being looked after.
I had this saloon for six months and got so fed up with being shook from pillar to post & teeth chattering that I've sold it and have now gone and got another 4x4. Maybe when the council has replaced (notice I didn't say repaired) our roads I might, and only might get another saloon......

Can I clarify a couple of points.
Harmful emissions. I think most will remember when Lead was removed from fuel as it is highly toxic, this was sensible. Today emissions from fuel still include Carbon Monoxide and several other poisonous gasses, reduced by Cats in exhausts, however, Carbon Dioxide is NOT a harmful emission, without this as all life as we know it on this planet would cease to exist.
We are being taxed on our Co2 emissions due to the speculation of global warming. There is evidence for global warming and evidence against it. In fact a recent study suggested that average temperatures have reduced slightly since 1997.
What is upsetting is that we are taxed according to our Co2 emissions, and from next year taxed at the showroom if you buy a large Co2 producing vehicle, up to £900.
Why are we taxed on a ‘theory’ and if the theory is disproved will we be reimbursed our tax’s?

You're as bad as the 4 x 4 off roaders who never go off road in your badge engineered glorified Mondeo. Oh and it's an Indian car now!
Badge engineerd mondeo? Oft quoted rubbish, the X type Jag shares certain design technologies with the mondeo along with a host of other ford family cars around the world includng volvos and mazdas. You will also find Land rovers and Aston Martins have Ford shared technologies in them too.

Whats wrong with having an Indian parent company? TATA have an excellent record around the world as a good employer and a sound investor who grow and develop the companies they buy into. Unlike the asset stripping incompetant British and American companies that have ruined our motor industry over the last few (many) years

I bought my 4x4 for 3 reasons:

1) It wasn't overly expensive.
2) It gives me an elevated seating position which is nice and I can view over other cars.
3) The extra stability and control you can only get from a 4WD vehicle.

I keep it for the following reasons:

1) It's cheap to run (it runs on LPG and I get free parking).
2) I'd get no money for a 13 year old car if I sold it, so I may as well run it into the ground.
3) It ****** people like Timmy ^^ off so it makes me enjoy my day slightly more.

:bigsmile:

I'm considering geting a 4x4 for a fw reasons, the roadas are rubbish in sheffield so it make the ride more comfy, i go fishing and this involves off road driving sometimes (only a slight noticable difference to most main roads in sheffield), it discourages bus drivers from pulling out on me, and it annoys the hell out of all the 'goldal warming will destroy the planet, media believing sheep'. :thumbsup:

Badge engineerd mondeo? Oft quoted rubbish, the X type Jag shares certain design technologies with the mondeo along with a host of other ford family cars around the world includng volvos and mazdas. You will also find Land rovers and Aston Martins have Ford shared technologies in them too.

That car should be a Mondeo and it only sells on the fact that it is called a Jaguar to people who like the idea of owning a Jaguar for some reason, probably that they aspire to be something they aren't, same with the lower model BMWs. I personally think that Jags are all old fat slobmobiles.

I bought my 4x4 for 3 reasons:

1) It wasn't overly expensive.
2) It gives me an elevated seating position which is nice and I can view over other cars.
3) The extra stability and control you can only get from a 4WD vehicle.


:bigsmile:

Don’t forget the other benefits of a 4x4
They upset the green-minded lefties
They are excellent at getting dozy women out of the way
The bull bars are very good at deflecting students and other such like layabouts

our 4x4 runs or veg oil & diesel so is better for the enviroment .. (and legal)

used to offroad most weekends and tow caravan ...

Good safe truck... more concerned that there are drivers with no insurance, no licence's, vehicle's in bad condition and no common sense...

as for judging width of vehicle thats not that fault of the truck but the drivers skills ..

Running your car on veg oil still counts as tax evasion

I've always driven/owned a 4x4. However due to the increasing pressures from do gooders, i've decided on a change.
I've now bought a 7.5ton diesel horsebox,that'll be nice driving to Dore @ 45mph and slowing the traffic. Gonna be a blighter to park @ Sainsburys for the weekly shop but one must do ones best.
Cheaper insurance than a 4x4,cheaper ved,higher driving position, people WILL let me pull out. I think i'm onto a winner.

excuse me ridgeracer, let me just clarify. you're accusing me of being a lesbian, as if being a lesbian is a bad thing, which makes you homophobic.

are you homophobic, ridgeracer? i don't think homophobia is permitted on this board.

fyi ive got three children and a grandson btw. i just think most men who choose to drive mitsubishi shoguns with black tinted windows and then proceed to drive very badly, all the while thinking they are superior to other drivers, have got "issues."

that has got nothing to do with my choice of sexual partner or my political leanings.

what a completely ridiculous post.

I drive a shogun it does not have blacked out windows. I had a 2.0 mondeo before that did 18mpg now I get over 30mpg and now I also pay less road tax
making assumptions about somebody because of what car they drive just shows how childish people can be I think people need to grow up and get some respect for others.

I would have voted but couldnt find the box that said- seeing as im the one paying for my car ill drive what i want:rolleyes: :D

Running your car on veg oil still counts as tax evasion
no it doesnt.
you can now use upto 2500 litres per year legally.

I've always driven/owned a 4x4. However due to the increasing pressures from do gooders, i've decided on a change.
I've now bought a 7.5ton diesel horsebox,that'll be nice driving to Dore @ 45mph and slowing the traffic. Gonna be a blighter to park @ Sainsburys for the weekly shop but one must do ones best.
Cheaper insurance than a 4x4,cheaper ved,higher driving position, people WILL let me pull out. I think i'm onto a winner.

One must ensure one has the correct bucket and shovel, musn't one? Plus the socially correct sticker on the rear end..............my hole isn't just for polo :hihi::hihi:

I ve just took delivery of my Range Rover sport had it 3 weeks and its the best thing ive ever had, didnt buy it for any other reason than i just wanted one, its a little expensive to run but hey you only live once, i did test drive the BMW and a Ceyenne but they didnt come any where close to the Range Rover.

In my opinion and it is only an oppinion The RR is the ultimate 4X4 Sports Utility Vehicle (as the Americans would say)

I think having these huge 4x4 are a waiste of money and waiste of polution, if you live in country then fine but since when do you need the facilitys a 4x4 gives you in a city :loopy:. People use excuses left right and centre including we need one to fit the kids in. What a load of rubbish how do you think people got about in the 80's and before they didnt have what we have now did they :loopy:. The other annoying thing about them is most think they own the road and just push past smaller cars plus if one hit a normal car they can injur someone a hell of alot worse than they would driving a normal car. Theres no need for these monster cars in the city and basically there just a show off car and if you can afford one then they should be taxed a hell of alot more than they do already. How ever if your in the country and have one then thats different cos you use what the 4x4 is actually made for rant over :rant:.

Think the Op is incorrect about 4X4s taking over...as I believe they peaked numbersoldwise 2 or 3 years ago owing to it flitering through that far from being something to aspire to the average person thought (unless you really did need one for your job/location) they were naff as hell.

I think having these huge 4x4 are a waiste of money and waiste of polution, if you live in country then fine but since when do you need the facilitys a 4x4 gives you in a city :loopy:. People use excuses left right and centre including we need one to fit the kids in. What a load of rubbish how do you think people got about in the 80's and before they didnt have what we have now did they :loopy:. The other annoying thing about them is most think they own the road and just push past smaller cars plus if one hit a normal car they can injur someone a hell of alot worse than they would driving a normal car. Theres no need for these monster cars in the city and basically there just a show off car and if you can afford one then they should be taxed a hell of alot more than they do already. How ever if your in the country and have one then thats different cos you use what the 4x4 is actually made for rant over :rant:.

And that M'Lud is the case for the opposition. :)

Hi,
I am not against large 4x4's as long as they are used in the the manner for which they are designed. However, please don't say that in England you NEED a 4x4 for the winter. I have just returned from 5 month's living in a ski resort in the Alps and guess what... most people don't drive a 4x4.
If you really think you need a 4x4 for the couple of inches of snow we get each year or the odd patch of ice then perhaps consider buying a set of snow chains or even spare wheels with snow tires. Not only would this save you money and help the environment, but it would be a LOT more effective on ice and snow than 4 wheel drive.
Also remember that small cars with thin tires and little power have much more traction on snow than those with large tires and large powerful engines.

Adrian

The main difference in the alps seems to be that they use the snowplows and gritters regularly and people don't stop or drive like idiots just because a few flakes of snow have hit the ground.

I used to drive a micra ( 3 different micras over a period of 14 years) and finally traded in for a much bigger car after ANOTHER road rage incident on Penistone Road when I was chased for 2 miles by a mad woman in an Astra who drove 3 feet behind me. I eventually stopped and she ran into the back of me but it was MY fault! I have never had a similar experience since I bought my 4x4. Judge me if you wish but I am a better driver because the size of the car forces me to drive more carefully and I do fewer miles because it's not as easy to park in some places (eg Coles car park) so I don't drive or don't go! I can also carry more passengers at times so we take 1 car not 2. My car does 30 mpg, I know a lot of people who's cars do less than that!

There is one main point why people have 4x4 in Sheffield :D Its simple , we are The City Of Potholes :rant:, the people who have 4x4's dont have to spend half there life in Kwik Fit spending even more money on bits that have fallen off due to the roads:suspect:, Smart move on there part i say :D

Driving along Fulwood Road today I counted a record 17 4X4's in the space of one minute......just happened to see lots of them in both directions, seemingly at random, and all different, so I startted counting for some unknown reason, as never seen so many on one road outside of rallies or car shows..
..a couple of MK I land Rovers, a MK I Range Rover, several Jeep Cherokees, about 7 Discovery's, and various Japanese brands like a Fourtrak (I have one, and only seen 2 in Sheffield ever) a Sportrak, Suzuki something or other and others.......4X4's have taken over.....

I ve just took delivery of my Range Rover sport had it 3 weeks and its the best thing ive ever had, didnt buy it for any other reason than i just wanted one, its a little expensive to run but hey you only live once, i did test drive the BMW and a Ceyenne but they didnt come any where close to the Range Rover.

In my opinion and it is only an oppinion The RR is the ultimate 4X4 Sports Utility Vehicle (as the Americans would say)

same here mate. ive got a 3 litre tdi discovery and i bought it for the simple reason that i wanted one . and why shouldnt i? i work hard for my money and can spend it on what i like

same here mate. ive got a 3 litre tdi discovery and i bought it for the simple reason that i wanted one . and why shouldnt i? i work hard for my money and can spend it on what i like

well said, its your money and you can do what you like with it....I feel the same too, but opted for a Fourtrak as it has a certain old skool design charm, you dont see anymore....

well said, its your money and you can do what you like with it....I feel the same too, but opted for a Fourtrak as it has a certain old skool design charm, you dont see anymore....

seen a few of them and they are a nice looking 4x4. i used to drive a v6 vectra but laways wanted a discovery and found myself in a position to be able to afford one. the green brigade would have us all driving round in little shopping trolleys

Its weather like this that 4X4's are far from being a joke.....they are the only sure fire way to get around, especially if you really NEED to be on the road.......ironically, mine is at the garage waiting for a new prop shaft....TYPICAL!!!!!!!! A 2X2 can be used if careful, but you seriously cannot do half the sort of snow and ice terrain that a 4x4 with proper tyres can do.....hope I get mine back for the next snowfall on Thursday......

Its weather like this that 4X4's are far from being a joke.....they are the only sure fire way to get around, especially if you really NEED to be on the road.......ironically, mine is at the garage waiting for a new prop shaft....TYPICAL!!!!!!!! A 2X2 can be used if careful, but you seriously cannot do half the sort of snow and ice terrain that a 4x4 with proper tyres can do.....hope I get mine back for the next snowfall on Thursday......I put a new shaft on mine yesterday morning outside in the snow, it took a few minutes.

My reasons when I did have a 4x4 were that I needed something with a van-like capacity but it also needed to be able to carry passengers occasionally.

I also have a fondness for older vehicles so a SIII 109 safari was the ideal vehicle for me.

My reasons. Nobody's problem but mine.

i need mine for taking the dogs out and towing in general -but at the minute the 4x4 drivers are the only ones moving freely

I put a new shaft on mine yesterday morning outside in the snow, it took a few minutes.

unfortunately mine also had a bit of damage at the axle box end, so needed to go up on the ramp for a full inspection....not a big job, just want to be safe rather than sorry

My reasons when I did have a 4x4 were that I needed something with a van-like capacity but it also needed to be able to carry passengers occasionally.

I also have a fondness for older vehicles so a SIII 109 safari was the ideal vehicle for me.

My reasons. Nobody's problem but mine.

my frst Landrover was an old series II - brilliant motor , i run it for 3 years then traded it in for a Defender .

Think the Op is incorrect about 4X4s taking over...as I believe they peaked numbersoldwise 2 or 3 years ago owing to it flitering through that far from being something to aspire to the average person thought (unless you really did need one for your job/location) they were naff as hell.

4x4`s are a good motor to drive ,very versatile ,good for sorts of things and very strong and sturdy. also the drivers view is better that that of a car driver .

4x4`s are a good motor to drive ,very versatile ,good for sorts of things and very strong and sturdy. also the drivers view is better that that of a car driver .

totally agree, and they are considerably safer as you are higher up and many are built like tanks.....where a normal car would be crushed to hell, a 4X4 may only sustain minor damage and be far safer for the occupants.....no contest in fact.....

totally agree, and they are considerably safer as you are higher up and many are built like tanks.....where a normal car would be crushed to hell, a 4X4 may only sustain minor damage and be far safer for the occupants.....no contest in fact.....

but thats the excuse the 4x4 haters use to justify their hatred- our motors are dangerous and wll cause untold damage in an accident.
whereas the opposite is the truth

totally agree, and they are considerably safer as you are higher up and many are built like tanks.....where a normal car would be crushed to hell, a 4X4 may only sustain minor damage and be far safer for the occupants.....no contest in fact.....

They are higher up, so have a higher centre of gravity, making them more likely to topple over.

I've never been driving and thought 'this would be safe if only I were 2 feet higher up' - visibility is very rarely a problem in a normal car, and if it is, slow down to an appropriate speed on those rare occasions. In the meantime you haven't got to slow down as much for every single corner you ever go round.

As for the 'crushing capabilities' - modern thinking is that the best way to help in an accident is to get the vehicle to absorb as much impact as possible - hence crumple zones on modern cars. However, in a crash between, say, a Fiesta and a Range Rover it's clear who will come out best regardless of how well designed the Fiesta is.

Of course if both drivers were driving Fiesta's they'd get where they were going in as much comfort, more quickly and with less fuel expended for 99% of motor vehicle journeys in the UK - and if they crashed both drivers would in all probability walk away.

but thats the excuse the 4x4 haters use to justify their hatred- our motors are dangerous and wll cause untold damage in an accident.
whereas the opposite is the truth

yes indeed.....but I know which vehicle I would feel safest in for sure.....have seen videos of 4X4s in head on crashes with each other and they just bounce apart needing a paint touch up stick and nothing more....2 cars doing that head on would be mangled and crushed totally....

but thats the excuse the 4x4 haters use to justify their hatred- our motors are dangerous and wll cause untold damage in an accident.
whereas the opposite is the truthYes, what they suggest is that you give yourself less protection in order to keep others safe. I would have thought that self preservation was top priority.

the poll doesnt have the answer for me,
i do have a 4 x 4
this reference to "selfish behavior" is unfair surley every one who chooses a car does it for their own reasons, they like the colour, reviews, budget,always wanted 1 etc
what vehicle is the least selfish to own, and who decides this?
if some one who is driving a 1.1 fiesta and chucks rubbish out of the window are they less selfish than a 4 x 4 driver who recycles and would never dream of doing that.or does this behavior even it out and make it ok do do this because they are using less emissions than the 4 x 4?
i think its a persons whole life style that should be scrutinized not their choice of car

A 2X2



...is a motorbike with two powered wheels. Its a 4x2 for a normal car! A normal motorbike is a 2x1.

Personally I have a 3x1.

yes indeed.....but I know which vehicle I would feel safest in for sure.....have seen videos of 4X4s in head on crashes with each other and they just bounce apart needing a paint touch up stick and nothing more....2 cars doing that head on would be mangled and crushed totally....

No I haven't - but surely the forces not absorbed by the vehicle are transmitted straight to the occupants - bruised lungs and headaches all round.

They are higher up, so have a higher centre of gravity, making them more likely to topple over.

I've never been driving and thought 'this would be safe if only I were 2 feet higher up' - visibility is very rarely a problem in a normal car, and if it is, slow down to an appropriate speed on those rare occasions. In the meantime you haven't got to slow down as much for every single corner you ever go round.

As for the 'crushing capabilities' - modern thinking is that the best way to help in an accident is to get the vehicle to absorb as much impact as possible - hence crumple zones on modern cars. However, in a crash between, say, a Fiesta and a Range Rover it's clear who will come out best regardless of how well designed the Fiesta is.

Of course if both drivers were driving Fiesta's they'd get where they were going in as much comfort, more quickly and with less fuel expended for 99% of motor vehicle journeys in the UK - and if they crashed both drivers would in all probability walk away.

a 4x4 will easily beat a fiesta to a destination -a 1 to 1-4 litre engine compared with a 2-5 to 3-9 litre turbo charged is no challange.
also a 4x4 corners very well indeed , and why ,if people can afford to run a 4x4 ,does it matter how mch fuel they use.?

Yes, what they suggest is that you give yourself less protection in order to keep others safe. I would have thought that self preservation was top priority.

So I presume you drive a Challenger Tank then?

As for the 'crushing capabilities' - modern thinking is that the best way to help in an accident is to get the vehicle to absorb as much impact as possible - hence crumple zones on modern cars. However, in a crash between, say, a Fiesta and a Range Rover it's clear who will come out best regardless of how well designed the Fiesta is.

Of course if both drivers were driving Fiesta's they'd get where they were going in as much comfort, more quickly and with less fuel expended for 99% of motor vehicle journeys in the UK - and if they crashed both drivers would in all probability walk away.

This is very true, and I only use my 4x4 for off roading and in bad weather as a general rule....the Fiestas are my preferred 'normal' vehicle, especially in the Summer....but in economy terms, running my Fourtrak on veg oil is actually marginally cheaper than running the Fiesta on unleaded, despite the huge engine and torque of the Fourtrak......think I would have got rid of it if it was still guzzling normal diesel and could not run on cheaper products that were friendly to the environment...

No I haven't - but surely the forces not absorbed by the vehicle are transmitted straight to the occupants - bruised lungs and headaches all round.

maybe ,but bruised lungs are better than the injuries cased by a head on collision between two cars -no comparison at all.

...is a motorbike with two powered wheels. Its a 4x2 for a normal car! A normal motorbike is a 2x1.Saw this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Flyer) on MSN earlier. The Briggs and Stratton Flyer which is 5 x 1.

So I presume you drive a Challenger Tank then?Would if I could.

So I presume you drive a Challenger Tank then?

The insurance group is very high on those:hihi:

a 4x4 will easily beat a fiesta to a destination -a 1 to 1-4 litre engine compared with a 2-5 to 3-9 litre turbo charged is no challange.
also a 4x4 corners very well indeed , and why ,if people can afford to run a 4x4 ,does it matter how mch fuel they use.?

That's interesting - on the way back from Suffolk last summer I had a gentleman who really was trying his hardest to keep up with me in a brand new Range Rover Sport. On the straights he was able to make up ground - but come a corner or roundabout he was completely at sea.

I was in a Ford Ka.

It's not an isolated incident, just the one that went on for longest - about 40 miles before he finally found a long enough straight. (Shame there was a roundabout at the end of it :hihi: )

The fuel question you know the answer to I think, although if you want me to answer please re-ask using the phrase "I am completely unaware of any concerns anyone has about the environment as I chose not to listen. Please enlighten me" and I'll be happy to help.

This is very true, and I only use my 4x4 for off roading and in bad weather as a general rule....the Fiestas are my preferred 'normal' vehicle, especially in the Summer....but in economy terms, running my Fourtrak on veg oil is actually marginally cheaper than running the Fiesta on unleaded, despite the huge engine and torque of the Fourtrak......think I would have got rid of it if it was still guzzling normal diesel and could not run on cheaper products that were friendly to the environment...

mine has a gas conversion with a smaller diesel tank fitted ,so i can fill it up very cheaply (54.9p for gas ) and also run it on veg oil as well.

mine has a gas conversion with a smaller diesel tank fitted ,so i can fill it up very cheaply (54.9p for gas ) and also run it on veg oil as well.

how much was the gas conversion out of interest?

maybe ,but bruised lungs are better than the injuries cased by a head on collision between two cars -no comparison at all.

But if I crash my car it crumples to absorb the majority of the forces, and air bags protect me from what remain.

Having walked around Broomhill earlier on today I can say with some degree of assurance that people driving 4x4s are significantly more irresponsible on the road, especially in adverse conditions, than most other drivers. I've seen a few of those massive Mitsubishi crop-top beasts ragging down the road, without any care for all those pedestrians slipping all over the place, or even walking in the road where it's gritted. Plus, the majority of them seem to be connected with the aristocracy dropping their little princes and princesses off at the private schools, leaving their engines idling for hours and blocking residents' drives and parking spots. Same with MPVs.

Fair enough, if you live in the country/do off-roading/need a big car for manual work, then have a 4x4, but for other purposes, they're just for status, greed and unnecessary comfort. I can't understand why some people think it's 'cool' or some kind of compensation for a hard working life to get a car that guzzles your money away, damages the environment, and makes you drive like Mr Burns from the Simpsons when faced with the plebs, e.g. over their feet/bodies.

That's interesting - on the way back from Suffolk last summer I had a gentleman who really was trying his hardest to keep up with me in a brand new Range Rover Sport. On the straights he was able to make up ground - but come a corner or roundabout he was completely at sea.

I was in a Ford Ka.

It's not an isolated incident, just the one that went on for longest - about 40 miles before he finally found a long enough straight. (Shame there was a roundabout at the end of it :hihi: )

The fuel question you know the answer to I think, although if you want me to answer please re-ask using the phrase "I am completely unaware of any concerns anyone has about the environment as I chose not to listen. Please enlighten me" and I'll be happy to help.My 4 x 4(s) are on LPG, can you enlighten me on that please?

That's interesting - on the way back from Suffolk last summer I had a gentleman who really was trying his hardest to keep up with me in a brand new Range Rover Sport. On the straights he was able to make up ground - but come a corner or roundabout he was completely at sea.

I was in a Ford Ka.

It's not an isolated incident, just the one that went on for longest - about 40 miles before he finally found a long enough straight. (Shame there was a roundabout at the end of it :hihi: )

The fuel question you know the answer to I think, although if you want me to answer please re-ask using the phrase "I am completely unaware of any concerns anyone has about the environment as I chose not to listen. Please enlighten me" and I'll be happy to help.

im totally honest about not being interested in my carbon fooprint -ive never denied that . and i only run my 4x4 on gas and veg oil as its cheaper to run -not because im bothered about the enviourment

Plus, the majority of them seem to be connected with the aristocracy dropping their little princes and princesses off at the private schools, leaving their engines idling for hours and blocking residents' drives and parking spots. Same with MPVs.

I never understand why 4X4's are associated with STATUS at all....they derive from military and farm based vehicles associated with hard work and rough terrain.......not sure why they all got snapped up by the 'aristocracy' as to me, a 4X4 is a working vehicle and not a rich mans play thing

Having walked around Broomhill earlier on today I can say with some degree of assurance that people driving 4x4s are significantly more irresponsible on the road, especially in adverse conditions, than most other drivers.

This is true enough - I was going up Broomgrove Road this morning with no problems at all until someone in a 4x4 coming down hill in the middle of the road caused me to lose momentum, and I got stuck. Whatever happened to 'priority to those coming up'?

By the time I'd managed to turn around (thanks to the bloke who gave me a push btw) she was further down the road doing the same to someone else.

how much was the gas conversion out of interest?

£ 1850 - incuding the smaller diesel tank being fitted . the gas tank replaces the old diesel tank -so no tanks in the boot and the small diesel tank is under the passenger side .

This is true enough - I was going up Broomgrove Road this morning with no problems at all until someone in a 4x4 coming down hill in the middle of the road caused me to lose momentum, and I got stuck. Whatever happened to 'priority to those coming up'?

By the time I'd managed to turn around (thanks to the bloke who gave me a push btw) she was further down the road doing the same to someone else.

I'm pretty sure in snow the rules are different i.e something big and heavy coming down an icy hill, do you really want them to break and possibly start skidding out of control down the rest of it???
________
vaporizer wholesaler (http://vaporizerwholesaler.com)

mine has a gas conversion with a smaller diesel tank fitted ,so i can fill it up very cheaply (54.9p for gas ) and also run it on veg oil as well.That's too much, you could be even less environmentally hostile if you shopped around, some places are 10p less than that.

Golden Fleece; it costs about £1200 to £2000 depending on complexity of the vehicle. Rover V8s are usually cheap(ish) as it's the most popular conversion which you may be able to do yourself if you are handy that way.

I never understand why 4X4's are associated with STATUS at all....they derive from military and farm based vehicles associated with hard work and rough terrain.......not sure why they all got snapped up by the 'aristocracy' as to me, a 4X4 is a working vehicle and not a rich mans play thing

when they designed the likes of the BMW X5 or similar. I'd hardly call that a working vehicle. It is designed solely for status purposes. Any other reason for purchase is just a cover up.

My 4 x 4(s) are on LPG, can you enlighten me on that please?

Certainly - I don't know your specific circumstances, but I presume you are using fossil fuels of one form or another to cart around a lot of weight (large body, sturdy chassis, complex 4wd running gear, big wheeels, big engine) in a body that probably isn't very aerodynamic when for most of your journeys you could be using a more efficient means of transport.

Or, put it another way - LPG still produces CO2 when you burn it, and if you ran a Fiesta on it, it'd do a darn sight more MPG than your 4x4 - and you'd still get to where you were going quickly and comfortably. And I'm talking about a new Fiesta - but even GF admits that his 25 year old Fiesta is so good he wondered yesterday if he needed a 4x4 at all.

just typed "drug dealers car" into google and got this (http://www.supanet.com/media/00/14/47/range-rover-sport.jpg). Maybe it is a working car after all.

That's too much, you could be even less environmentally hostile if you shopped around, some places are 10p less than that.

Golden Fleece; it costs about £1200 to £2000 depending on complexity of the vehicle. Rover V8s are usually cheap(ish) as it's the most popular conversion which you may be able to do yourself if you are handy that way.

im no good with owt like that - i took mine to people who know what they are doing

£ 1850 - incuding the smaller diesel tank being fitted . the gas tank replaces the old diesel tank -so no tanks in the boot and the small diesel tank is under the passenger side .That's quite unusual converting a diesel, is it running on a mixture, how did you change the compression ratio?

I'm pretty sure in snow the rules are different i.e something big and heavy coming down an icy hill, do you really want them to break and possibly start skidding out of control down the rest of it???

She had stopped once, but was blocking my progress as she had stopped next to a parked car.

As I got to a point where we could both pass I waved her forward so I could keep going, but she came so slowly that I had to stop.

Plus, she was on the level bit at the top.

Certainly - I don't know your specific circumstances, but I presume you are using fossil fuels of one form or another to cart around a lot of weight (large body, sturdy chassis, complex 4wd running gear, big wheeels, big engine) in a body that probably isn't very aerodynamic when for most of your journeys you could be using a more efficient means of transport.

Or, put it another way - LPG still produces CO2 when you burn it, and if you ran a Fiesta on it, it'd do a darn sight more MPG than your 4x4 - and you'd still get to where you were going quickly and comfortably. And I'm talking about a new Fiesta - but even GF admits that his 25 year old Fiesta is so good he wondered yesterday if he needed a 4x4 at all.Yes you're right. Advertising LPG as good for the environment is a fallacy, it produces 25% less poison but uses about that much extra fuel which virtually negates the supposed environmental benefits.

I use it because it's cheap.

I never understand why 4X4's are associated with STATUS at all....they derive from military and farm based vehicles associated with hard work and rough terrain.......not sure why they all got snapped up by the 'aristocracy' as to me, a 4X4 is a working vehicle and not a rich mans play thing

I think it's to do with the now-illegal bull-bars that once used to be attached to every 'Chelsea Tractor' in town. E.g. the driver's safe as houses, for everyone else it's a case of getting out of the way. I suppose that's verified by the experience the post about Broomgrove Rd; get out of the way, or get hit, beggar my neighbour and ignore common courtesy...

She had stopped once, but was blocking my progress as she had stopped next to a parked car.

As I got to a point where we could both pass I waved her forward so I could keep going, but she came so slowly that I had to stop.

Plus, she was on the level bit at the top.

Well in that case she was being very inconsiderate!!
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health store (http://herbalhealthshop.com)

That's too much, you could be even less environmentally hostile if you shopped around, some places are 10p less than that.

Does the cheaper fuel produce less Co2? How does that work?

I own a 4x4 (well, AWD ...does that qualify?), an Impreza 2.0 non-turbo.

Evaluated at length against its peers (Audi quattros etc - I specifically did not want an SUV-type affair) and eventually chosen as our family car, as the most cost-effective 4x4 option with a 'conventional size'. Would have been pipped to the post by the turbo-diesel Legacy, mind, but we bought ours before this model came out, and which I will probably consider very favourably as and when we need to change ours again.

Not that economical in terms of MPG (compared to same-sized FWD), but then I'm comfortable with the fact that you can't have your cake and eat it: I'd rather the higher MPG for the additional safety provided by 4-wheeled traction all year-round, than the reverse.

None of your poll options appear to apply, I'm afraid. Not that it's biased or anything... :hihi:

Does the cheaper fuel produce less Co2? How does that work?

ive no idea and to be honest i dont really care - its all about price -thats why i had the gas conversion

Does the cheaper fuel produce less Co2? How does that work?It produces less CO2 when it is burned so it is a more efficient way of burning fossil fuel except that it doesn't drive as far by volume of fuel used. The price is irrelevant to that but it's relevant to me purely as a motoring cost.

INot that economical in terms of MPG, but then I'm comfortable with the fact that you can't have your cake and eat it: I'd rather the higher MPG for the additional safety provided by 4-wheeled traction all year-round, than the reverse.

Yours isn't a 4x4 in the sense that people object to, but I'm intrigued as to what additional safety you think you get in return for the added cost (fuel, purchase, servicing) of having 4wd.

I can honestly say that in 300,000 miles plus of driving I've never been in a situation where I think 4wd would have made things safer. I've been in situations where it would have made things easier (muddy campsites, snowy hills) but not really safer -and it is such a rare occurrence that the ongoing costs of AWD are just not worth it to me.

You know what they say:

Front wheel drive - you go through the hedge forwards
Rear wheel drive - you go through the hedge backwards
Four wheel drive - you go through the hedge sideways

It produces less CO2 when it is burned so it is a more efficient way of burning fossil fuel except that it doesn't drive as far by volume of fuel used. The price is irrelevant to that but it's relevant to me purely as a motoring cost.

I was posting in response to your thread about getting LPG for less than 54.9p being less environmentally hostile.

I understand that LPG produces less Co2 than petrol, but was confused as to why you were suggesting that cheaper LPG was better for the environment than dearer LPG

Yours isn't a 4x4 in the sense that people object to, but I'm intrigued as to what additional safety you think you get in return for the added cost (fuel, purchase, servicing) of having 4wd.

I can honestly say that in 300,000 miles plus of driving I've never been in a situation where I think 4wd would have made things safer. I've been in situations where it would have made things easier (muddy campsites, snowy hills) but not really safer -and it is such a rare occurrence that the ongoing costs of AWD are just not worth it to me.

You know what they say:

Front wheel drive - you go through the hedge forwards
Rear wheel drive - you go through the hedge backwards
Four wheel drive - you go through the hedge sidewaysI've had a few 4 x 4 cars such as Quattro UR/WR (proper Quattro) and they are more forgiving than 2 wheel drive when you thrash them and I found that the simple 50/50 split was better than the more recent supposedly more sophisticated types. If you lost it you had lost it though and it would usually oversteer first.

I was posting in response to your thread about getting LPG for less than 54.9p being less environmentally hostile.

I understand that LPG produces less Co2 than petrol, but was confused as to why you were suggesting that cheaper LPG was better for the environment than dearer LPG

i think he meant that the are garages selling it cheaper than where i fill up at 54.9p

I was posting in response to your thread about getting LPG for less than 54.9p being less environmentally hostile.

I understand that LPG produces less Co2 than petrol, but was confused as to why you were suggesting that cheaper LPG was better for the environment than dearer LPGSorry my sentence didn't make sense I meant that he could be environmentally hostile for less money.

Sorry my sentence didn't make sense I meant that he could be environmentally hostile for less money.

i use Tankersley to fill up ,where can i get it cheaper ?

I think it's to do with the now-illegal bull-bars that once used to be attached to every 'Chelsea Tractor' in town. E.g. the driver's safe as houses, for everyone else it's a case of getting out of the way. I suppose that's verified by the experience the post about Broomgrove Rd; get out of the way, or get hit, beggar my neighbour and ignore common courtesy...

bull bars are not illegal, or perhaps not every type? Mine has them as it came with them installed when I bought it, and it passed an MOT with them on so they must be legal

i use Tankersley to fill up ,where can i get it cheaper ?I'm not in Sheff but in Bradford it's as little as 42p. Morrisons up here are 45.9p. Barnsley Calor Centre if you're in the area is 41.9p today tel 01226 201332. Depends how far away they are and how big your tank is of course.

bull bars are not illegal, or perhaps not every type? Mine has them as it came with them installed when I bought it, and it passed an MOT with them on so they must be legal

I think they're legal, just very dangerous.

I think they're legal, just very dangerous.
oh they are illegal to manufacture and supply them it appears, but not 'retrospectively'....apparently you can still have non metal ones made of a flexible material supplied new

I'm not in Sheff but in Bradford it's as little as 42p. Morrisons up here are 45.9p. Barnsley Calor Centre if you're in the area is 41.9p today tel 01226 201332. Depends how far away they are and how big your tank is of course.

th one in Barnsley is not far -ill give them a ring ,cheers:thumbsup:

I think they're legal, just very dangerous.They are only dangerous if you bump into them. Most of them are ornamental and only fastened with a couple of bolts. What you really need in order to be dangerous like they have in Australia is a roo bar made out of rsjs and old railway lines.

I think they're legal, just very dangerous.

mine has steel bar on it and it went through the test no problems -quite legal

th one in Barnsley is not far -ill give them a ring ,cheers:thumbsup:Don't you go spending the money I've saved you on hassling those bikers.

Yours isn't a 4x4 in the sense that people object to, but I'm intrigued as to what additional safety you think you get in return for the added cost (fuel, purchase, servicing) of having 4wd.

Well, in any thread badged '4x4', it has its place, whereby the broad brush should be somewhat narrowed ;)

I never need worry about aquaplaning or any other factors potentially affecting traction on normal roads: mud from tractors, manure from horses/cattle, irregular patches of ice/frozen snow such as this morning, etc. You don't have to be driving like a jet pilot to experience aquaplaning either: it's all down to a correlation between the amount of water on the surface, your speed (even if well below the limit) and the capacity of your tyres to evacuate.

Likewise, I have a lesser worry if having to use avoidance techniques, through which 2 longitudinal wheels (front/back) may suddenly end up on gravel or dust at speed (50 mph or so), on a straight or in a turn. Again, you don't have to be driving like a jet pilot to happen upon such a situation, e.g. tractor comes out of a field onto a B road, not having seen you coming along at 50 mph or 60 mph.

As you can see, all these are happenstance, but then so are accidents. With your 300k miles' experience, hopefully you can understand that the difference between a collision/impact/accident and overcoming an adverse situation, is often down to loss of traction. Anything mitigating this is 'additional safety' (IMHO), the benefit to me is that I can rely on the extra 2WD and the power-distributing AWD system to get me out of trouble if traction is the main factor at the relevant time.

(BTW, servicing, purchase and insurance costs compare very favourably with BMWs/Audis/other exec saloons (at least for non-turbo)).

And I'm talking about a new Fiesta - but even GF admits that his 25 year old Fiesta is so good he wondered yesterday if he needed a 4x4 at all.

My 4X4 is purely for winter use as a general rule, and I do enjoy muddy off roading through swamps too!!! My Fiesta however, would sink without trace in the swamps the Fourtrak has been through...

I think, if you drive sensibly, a normal car with decent tyres will do in all but the most treacherous situations......but sometimes the 4X4 in very bad weather will just have the extra cutting edge to get you home and not stuck in a snowdrift...

I make a point here that I do not use the 4X4, unless I am going to off-road somewhere or the weather is dreadful, or I am collecting or delivering a significant load, as I simply don't need that power or bulk for 'normal' journeys......I cant imagine me ever getting rid of my normal cars and just keeping a 4X4, it would be then what everyone hates, just a 'status' symbol which is not needed and just retained to annoy everyone else....

Don't you go spending the money I've saved you on hassling those bikers.

:thumbsup: dad:hihi:

The poll is a little confusing. Is there any real difference between a silly pleb and someone who has so much money they don't know what to do with it ?

The poll is a little confusing. Is there any real difference between a silly pleb and someone who has so much money they don't know what to do with it ?

you can get non rich plebs???? IE I know of someone who simply inherited a Jeep grand Cherokee or something or that magnitude.....they were still a pleb, but had no money....in fact they were forced to sell it after 2 months as it cost £100 to fill up and only did 10 miles a gallon or something silly......plus they managed to wrap it around a bollard when showing off

They are only dangerous if you bump into them. Most of them are ornamental and only fastened with a couple of bolts. What you really need in order to be dangerous like they have in Australia is a roo bar made out of rsjs and old railway lines.

Given that most of them are at about the height of a child's head, made of steel and attached to vehicles that rarely leave the city, I'd say they are dangerous enough.

My Fiesta however, would sink without trace in the swamps the Fourtrak has been through...

I cant imagine me ever getting rid of my normal cars and just keeping a 4X4, it would be then what everyone hates, just a 'status' symbol which is not needed and just retained to annoy everyone else....

I think you'd be ok - no-one is going to think a Fourtrak is a status symbol :)

Given that most of them are at about the height of a child's head, made of steel and attached to vehicles that rarely leave the city, I'd say they are dangerous enough.The danger of a bull bar is a secondary consideration compared with walking in front of a moving vehicle. Most people who are hit by a vehicle fly away from it as soon as it hits them, it's the speed that makes the difference.

I think you'd be ok - no-one is going to think a Fourtrak is a status symbol :)

this is true, they look like farm vehicles through and through.....I would not want a 50 grand Range Rover anyway.....
mine smelt of pigs when I bought it cheap on Ebay....it has definitely been a fully 'working' farm vehicle most of its life....
got used to the smell of pigs now.....air fresheners had no impact....all hail the great British Pig!

The danger of a bull bar is a secondary consideration compared with walking in front of a moving vehicle. Most people who are hit by a vehicle fly away from it as soon as it hits them, it's the speed that makes the difference.

Nonsense - they 'fold' around it and smack their head on it - then when the vehicle stops, the momentum it has transferred to the victim means they carry on, thus landing away from the vehicle.

That is the reason small cars can be quite bad for pedestrians too - their heads end up hitting the bonnet above the bulkhead, which has much less give than the bonnet itself.

For people to 'fly away' as soon as the car hits them the car would somehow have to instantly transfer to the victim more speed than the car itself had.

Given that most of them are at about the height of a child's head, made of steel and attached to vehicles that rarely leave the city, I'd say they are dangerous enough.

mine is used mainly in the countryside and vry rarely goes near townies . also my bars are bolted to the chasis and i sometimes use them to drag things round on the farm -so they are a useful tool to have

My first post on this page so bk trackin a little , i got my 4 x 4 warrior for work and family im a plasterer by trade so i need space to carry plasterboards ect bit with the warrior it allows me to use for family aswell with it been crew cab so 2 birds with 1 stone as thy say .

mine is used mainly in the countryside and vry rarely goes near townies . also my bars are bolted to the chasis and i sometimes use them to drag things round on the farm -so they are a useful tool to have

Useful on a farm they may be. They are also dangerous in the city.

this is true, they look like farm vehicles through and through.....I would not want a 50 grand Range Rover anyway.....

me neither -my Disco is a work horse

Nonsense - they 'fold' around it and smack their head on it - then when the vehicle stops, the momentum it has transferred to the victim means they carry on, thus landing away from the vehicle.

That is the reason small cars can be quite bad for pedestrians too - their heads end up hitting the bonnet above the bulkhead, which has much less give than the bonnet itself.

For people to 'fly away' as soon as the car hits them the car would somehow have to instantly transfer to the victim more speed than the car itself had.All vehicles are bad for pedestrians. They do fly away or bounce off, I've seen it happen several times and they may well be injured or even killed but that was caused by being knocked down regardless of the vehicle.

Useful on a farm they may be. They are also dangerous in the city.

no more dangerous than any car -any vehicle is dangerous if driven by an idiot -you cant say a 4x4 is any worse than a car
i drive mine carefully but an idiot in a car is far more dangerous than me in my 4x4

Any car is dangerous in the wrong hands

me neither -my Disco is a work horse

I looked at one of those but after reading the reviews, the Fourtrak just about seemed to be the better choice for real rough stuff and pure work-horsiness...
oh and the price was a factor too.......could not find any Discov for less than 3 K, but I got my Fourtrak for 1200 and despite needing a new radiator after 20 miles, and the recent prop shaft replacement, its been a real tough as nails beast

All vehicles are bad for pedestrians. They do fly away or bounce off, I've seen it happen several times and they may well be injured or even killed but that was caused by being knocked down regardless of the vehicle.

You cannae change the laws of physics. Pedestrians do not 'fly away' when hit by cars - they are accelerated to the same speed as the car (as it has the larger mass) but decelerate more slowly (because they haven't got brakes) so land some way from it.

You can watch it in slow motion (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YsfnxKnyh1M) if you want (it's a dummy, not a real person)

Hitting your head on a bull-bar with no 'give' in it is much more likely to kill you than hitting your head on a bonnet, which will generally bend to some extent.

Any car is dangerous in the wrong hands

my point exactly

no more dangerous than any car -any vehicle is dangerous if driven by an idiot -you cant say a 4x4 is any worse than a car
i drive mine carefully but an idiot in a car is far more dangerous than me in my 4x4

But your 4x driven by you is more dangerous than both a normal car, and a 4x4 without bull-bars driven by you.

You cannae change the laws of physics. Pedestrians do not 'fly away' when hit by cars - they are accelerated to the same speed as the car (as it has the larger mass) but decelerate more slowly (because they haven't got brakes) so land some way from it.

You know what I mean.

I looked at one of those but after reading the reviews, the Fourtrak just about seemed to be the better choice for real rough stuff and pure work-horsiness...
oh and the price was a factor too.......could not find any Discov for less than 3 K, but I got my Fourtrak for 1200 and despite needing a new radiator after 20 miles, and the recent prop shaft replacement, its been a real tough as nails beast

i paid £1200 for my Disco with 10 months test . ok ive had the gas conversion ,but ive already recouped a lot of that investment.
its done everything ive asked it to do and never le me dow once .
i admit they hold their price and are not the cheapest 4x4.

But your 4x driven by you is more dangerous than both a normal car, and a 4x4 without bull-bars driven by you.

and your evidence for that is ?

<<<<gagging myself I won`t say what I paid for mine

All vehicles are bad for pedestrians.

As explained in my other reply, a 4x4 with bull bars is a worse thing to be hit by than a normal car - but the other factor is being hit in the first place.

My little car will stop in a shorter distance than most 4x4's simply because it has less mass to stop. Plus it has suspension designed for road use rather than off-road articulation, so I can turn more sharply to avoid people.

So there will be a certain set of circumstances where I can avoid someone, and you in your 4x4 can't

You know what I mean.

I'm only going on what you said. If you don't mean what you said then say so.

lol I`m saying nothing here I`ll just watch lol

i paid £1200 for my Disco with 10 months test . ok ive had the gas conversion ,but ive already recouped a lot of that investment.
its done everything ive asked it to do and never le me dow once .
i admit they hold their price and are not the cheapest 4x4.

you got a very good deal there me thinks......whats the mpg on those without any conversion? The fourtrak does 30 mpg on pure diesel which is quite good for a 2.8 litre turbo diesel......rises to about 36 with 50/50 mix diesel and veg oil

As explained in my other reply, a 4x4 with bull bars is a worse thing to be hit by than a normal car - but the other factor is being hit in the first place.

My little car will stop in a shorter distance than most 4x4's simply because it has less mass to stop. Plus it has suspension designed for road use rather than off-road articulation, so I can turn more sharply to avoid people.

So there will be a certain set of circumstances where I can avoid someone, and you in your 4x4 can'tHow far do you want to go? We can take this to the nth degree and say that if we didn't drive at all it wouldn't ever happen but we might fall down the stairs instead when we could have lived in bungalow.

My little car will stop in a shorter distance than most 4x4's simply because it has less mass to stop. Plus it has suspension designed for road use rather than off-road articulation, so I can turn more sharply to avoid people.
So there will be a certain set of circumstances where I can avoid someone, and you in your 4x4 can't

True, my Fourtrak has the turning circle of a bus:mad:

and your evidence for that is ?

See my posts explaining why being hit by a bull-bar is worse than being hit by a car, and why it is more likely one can avoid an accident in the first place if one is driving a lighter, more agile car.

See my posts explaining why being hit by a bull-bar is worse than being hit by a car, and why it is more likely one can avoid an accident in the first place if one is driving a lighter, more agile car.

Unless you have standard Ford Fiesta MK I brakes:loopy: a train can stop quicker....

How far do you want to go? We can take this to the nth degree and say that if we didn't drive at all it wouldn't ever happen but we might fall down the stairs instead when we could have lived in bungalow.

Well that would be ridiculous.

Not driving would be a massive inconvenience to everyone but the self-sufficient.

Not fitting bull bars you won't use isn't much of an inconvenience to anyone, is it?

mmmmmmmmmm isn`t there another 4x4 thread ?

True, my Fourtrak has the turning circle of a bus:mad:

My Ka has a bigger turning circle than my Mondeo which makes people think you can't park :(

My point though was that if I flick the steering wheel to avoid a pedestrian, say, the car will turn in a lot more quickly than a 4x4 as there is less suspension travel to absord, less sidewall on the tyre to deform, less compromise in the design of the tyre as it is optimised for road use, and more importantly less mass to change direction.

All of which means in a marginal case, I might miss them, while someone in a 4x4 might hit them.

I have ka too for tootling around in the city lol they are very nippy

I have ka too for tootling around in the city lol they are very nippyThat wasn't you driving on Penistone Rd in the snow and dark at 6.30 yesterday morning with no lights on and oblivious to everyone flashing you was it?

From my observations over the years there are far more Kas (?) in accidents than virtually any other type of vehicle apart from minicabs of course. Drivers of Kas (not all of you) seem to be particularly incompetant.

That wasn't you driving on Penistone Rd in the snow and dark at 6.30 yesterday morning with no lights on and oblivious to everyone flashing you was it?

From my observations over the years there are far more Kas (?) in accidents than virtually any other type of vehicle apart from minicabs of course. Drivers of Kas (not all of you) seem to be particularly incompetant.

Come on, you can do better than that obvious bit of trolling.

What happened to 'all cars can be dangerous, it depends on the driver?'

I do not wish to get into an argument

any one interested in a nice X5 3ltr deisel sport :P
top spec loadsa extras 3 tvs 22 inch alloys check out the pic
if you want a 4x4 for being vain this is the one :D

got one thanks

any one interested in a nice X5 3ltr deisel sport :P
top spec loadsa extras 3 tvs 22 inch alloys check out the pic
if you want a 4x4 for being vain this is the one :D

would you consider taking off one of the zeros on the price?

you got a very good deal there me thinks......whats the mpg on those without any conversion? The fourtrak does 30 mpg on pure diesel which is quite good for a 2.8 litre turbo diesel......rises to about 36 with 50/50 mix diesel and veg oil

roughly the same as yours on pure diesel -ive not run on veg oil yet -but i will be

would you consider taking off one of the zeros on the price?

lolololol Its a nice car

Don't see the point of it

You would never want to try its off-road capabilities out for fear of hurting it.

And I've got enough tellys in my house, I don't want to go sit in the car and watch!

Don't see the point of it

You would never want to try its off-road capabilities out for fear of hurting it.

And I've got enough tellys in my house, I don't want to go sit in the car and watch!

they arnt proper 4x4`s -they dont look as good covered in mud and cant see many X5 owners throwing 6 bales of straw in the back:hihi:

did you say earlier Mr benn you used it on your farm ?

did you say earlier Mr benn you used it on your farm ?

i dont have a farm ,my dad does -so it gets plenty of use

they arnt proper 4x4`s -they dont look as good covered in mud and cant see many X5 owners throwing 6 bales of straw in the back:hihi:

He he nope definaly not !!!!
although it does make trips up to the stables :D
than straight to the ONLY hand carwash for a squeaky clean and polish :P

He he nope definaly not !!!!
although it does make trips up to the stables :D
than straight to the ONLY hand carwash for a squeaky clean and polish :P

townie :hihi::hihi:

errrrrrr chav !!!! lolol :D

errrrrrr chav !!!! lolol :D

one of the saturday horsey mob who invade the countryside pretending to squires:hihi::hihi:

Maybe if the council filled in a few potholes every now and then they'd be less popular?Hahaha, genius. 'spose Planner1 'h prefer we spend money on cars then they spend some on repairing roads. Weird, both council and people get paid but only people spend it.

i have a 4x4 because:
it is safest for the kids
it has 7 seats enough for the whole family
it is like a van - big enough to lug stuff around
it works in the snow
it works in the floods
it goes off road - which i frequently use
it is comfortable
it takes all the family's luggage
the dog loves it
the sort of person who dislikes them is really annoyed by them
you get a good overview of the road ahead
it's diesel and fairly economical for transporting that many people around

i have a 4 x 4 becasue.. well because i like it... and that is that !!

Nobody has ever asked me how well my house is insulated or slate me for how little i recycle...or how much nylon i wear, or how long i leave hte heating on in my house for or whether i bath or shower... All these are equally is not more likely to cause long term enviromental damage... and on that note !

GET A LIFE PEOPLE...AND LET ME LIVE MINE !!

i have a 4 x 4 becasue.. well because i like it... and that is that !!

Nobody has ever asked me how well my house is insulated or slate me for how little i recycle...or how much nylon i wear, or how long i leave hte heating on in my house for or whether i bath or shower... All these are equally is not more likely to cause long term enviromental damage... and on that note !

GET A LIFE PEOPLE...AND LET ME LIVE MINE !!

perfectly put-i get sick of people saying we 4x4 drivers shouldnt drive them

drive what my 4 x 4

i have a 4 x 4 becasue.. well because i like it... and that is that !!

Nobody has ever asked me how well my house is insulated or slate me for how little i recycle...or how much nylon i wear, or how long i leave hte heating on in my house for or whether i bath or shower... All these are equally is not more likely to cause long term enviromental damage... and on that note !

GET A LIFE PEOPLE...AND LET ME LIVE MINE !!

Maybe you should be asking yourself those questions instead Ashi - you've obviously got them on your mind. If everyone acted without any sense of a wider community or a sense of some, even basic, kind of civic duty, nothing would ever get done and you'd live in a much much worse society than we do now.

But I'm sure you're just baiting us, right?

Maybe there will come a time, and it might come sooner than you think, when you won't have the chance to have a 4WD just because you don't want others having a say in your life. I mean car manufacturers are already putting out cars with limits on their Co2 production. In the end, anyway, it's up to you. Don't believe in environmental damage? Fine, have it your way. Don't care how much money you stick in your petrol tank? Fine, fill it up. Don't care how much your tax is gonna cost? Fine, pay the government through the teeth.

The danger of a bull bar is a secondary consideration compared with walking in front of a moving vehicle. Most people who are hit by a vehicle fly away from it as soon as it hits them, it's the speed that makes the difference.

this argument is entirely specious. If you are hit on the head by a giant cushion at 30 mph then it will absorb the energy and bounce you off. if you are hit by a lump of tubular steel at 30 mph then your skull will absorb the energy (by deforming) and then bounce off - you will die! there is no excuse in this country for bull bars. It actually mitigates against the car's inherent safety features and in the event of a major collision will cause more damage to the occupants of the vehicle. Cars (even big ones) dissipate the impact along the whole chassis. This keeps the passenger compartment in tact. any after market addition like bull bars interfere with this.

i use Tankersley to fill up ,where can i get it cheaper ?

Mr Benn, just in case you didn't know about this...

http://www.petrolprices.com/

It was often a bit out of date when prices were very volatile a month or two ago, but it is usually fairly reliable for diesel - I don't know about petrol or lpg, but I think it's worth a look.

Don't care how much money you stick in your petrol tank? Fine, fill it up. Don't care how much your tax is gonna cost? Fine, pay the government through the teeth.

very much bothered about how much the government taxes people. just cos they tax people too much doesnt make them right

That's not my point - I'm just saying you're paying the govn. more money than if you had a smaller car. For people that are so, like, "I'm not doing something because the loony left want me to", why would you opt to put more money into their coffers buy buying a car in a high tax bracket?

Maybe you should be asking yourself those questions instead Ashi - you've obviously got them on your mind. If everyone acted without any sense of a wider community or a sense of some, even basic, kind of civic duty, nothing would ever get done and you'd live in a much much worse society than we do now.

But I'm sure you're just baiting us, right?

Maybe there will come a time, and it might come sooner than you think, when you won't have the chance to have a 4WD just because you don't want others having a say in your life. I mean car manufacturers are already putting out cars with limits on their Co2 production. In the end, anyway, it's up to you. Don't believe in environmental damage? Fine, have it your way. Don't care how much money you stick in your petrol tank? Fine, fill it up. Don't care how much your tax is gonna cost? Fine, pay the government through the teeth.





Although i fully appreciate your point of view...until the time arrives that i am unable to buy or drivea 4 x 4, i will continue..There is little to suggest that me driving my 4 x4 that gives 40mpg, is any worse for the enviroment than the 2 litre petrol automatic that joe bloggs drives...
Yet again too many people are all too willing to scapegoat others before they actually look at themselves...
You don't need to tell me about society, unfortunately i am blessed in my vocation to deal with the very low of the lowest..
Society will not change, if i choose mot to drive 4 x4 .. instead some other unwordly wrath will set upon up, and become the latest craze of those seeking a conformist society...

It is the non conformists that make up the very hub of society that depicts changes such as technological and medical progression and essentialy darwinian change in the cross section of society as a whole...

Therefore..please...leave me to my non conformist views and i will leave you to continue gazing at the world through your rose coloured glasses.

Thanks

Mr Benn, just in case you didn't know about this...

http://www.petrolprices.com/

It was often a bit out of date when prices were very volatile a month or two ago, but it is usually fairly reliable for diesel - I don't know about petrol or lpg, but I think it's worth a look.

thanks:thumbsup:

Maybe you should be asking yourself those questions instead Ashi - you've obviously got them on your mind. If everyone acted without any sense of a wider community or a sense of some, even basic, kind of civic duty, nothing would ever get done and you'd live in a much much worse society than we do now.

But I'm sure you're just baiting us, right?

Maybe there will come a time, and it might come sooner than you think, when you won't have the chance to have a 4WD just because you don't want others having a say in your life. I mean car manufacturers are already putting out cars with limits on their Co2 production. In the end, anyway, it's up to you. Don't believe in environmental damage? Fine, have it your way. Don't care how much money you stick in your petrol tank? Fine, fill it up. Don't care how much your tax is gonna cost? Fine, pay the government through the teeth.

if we can afford to run them ,whats the problem?
the road tax on mine is the same as many cars ie-£102 for 6 months

no more dangerous than any car -any vehicle is dangerous if driven by an idiot -you cant say a 4x4 is any worse than a car
i drive mine carefully but an idiot in a car is far more dangerous than me in my 4x4

a bit of a generality, but Euroncap DO think that the bigger 4x4s are more dangerous for pedestrians - they are nearly all "1 star". Small cars on the other hand are typically 2 or 3 stars, with only a few 1 stars.

Small 4x4s, on the other hand seem to be better than the big ones.

http://www.euroncap.com/carsearch.aspx

i just dont understand where the 4x4 haters get their arguement from. we are driving legal road vehicles ,the same as every other driver ,the only difference being our vehicles are bigger.

As far as the poll goes, I'd like the option to vote for "None of the above".

I have absolutely no interest in running a 4x4, but do not mind if someone else wishes to. If they want to spend their own money on one, that's up to them.

The only circumstances I would get one is if I needed off road use and/or needed to tow something and/or carry lots of stuff. As it happens, we have the occasional need to carry lots of people and luggage, so my wife has a 7 seater (compact MPV, but not a 4x4/SUV).

We certainly see no need for 4 wheel drive. I'd sooner spend the money on a higher spec "normal" car, with high Euroncap rating, and ESP - much more important in my opinion.

@Mrbenn - that's nearly double what smaller cars have to pay in road tax. Plus costs of essentials like tyres, servicing, even petrol, you're coming out as being more expensive as most cars on the road. And for others to say it's not much different from driving an average 2 litre, I think you should set the litre bracket lower.

@Ashi23 - thanks for getting back to me on that, but I think you're wrong to call my view 'rose-tinted'. I mean, come on, to say people in society have a basic amount of respect for each other isn't pushing things into cloud-cuckoo land. And furthermore, I can't understand how you can call yourself a non-conformist. FFS, non-conformists are people who go against the grain, and wouldn't buy into the idea that owning a 4WD makes you somehow radical. Maybe if you really had to have one, like if you were, say, a particular kind of farmer going against the grain of European policy or something.

I drive a Pug 106 from the 90s (well-serviced, efficient, cheap). Now I'd say that was more unconventional/non-conformist!

i just dont understand where the 4x4 haters get their arguement from. we are driving legal road vehicles ,the same as every other driver ,the only difference being our vehicles are bigger.


I think it is down to attitude and aptitude. Whilst I'm sure that there are a great many polite and skilled drivers of 4x4 vehicles, there are also many numpties out there driving vehicles that are too big for them, in an aggressive manner. If they encase themselves in a massive steel cage, they stand out and people hate them... that's all.

I wouldn't say all Range Rover drivers are like this, but here's an example to back up sibon's point:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7654430.stm

@Mrbenn - that's nearly double what smaller cars have to pay in road tax. Plus costs of essentials like tyres, servicing, even petrol, you're coming out as being more expensive as most cars on the road. And for others to say it's not much different from driving an average 2 litre, I think you should set the litre bracket lower.

@Ashi23 - thanks for getting back to me on that, but I think you're wrong to call my view 'rose-tinted'. I mean, come on, to say people in society have a basic amount of respect for each other isn't pushing things into cloud-cuckoo land. And furthermore, I can't understand how you can call yourself a non-conformist. FFS, non-conformists are people who go against the grain, and wouldn't buy into the idea that owning a 4WD makes you somehow radical. Maybe if you really had to have one, like if you were, say, a particular kind of farmer going against the grain of European policy or something.

I drive a Pug 106 from the 90s (well-serviced, efficient, cheap). Now I'd say that was more unconventional/non-conformist!

...and an ever-increasing number of smaller cars getting into the <120 g CO2 bracket, with an annual road tax of £35.

@Mrbenn - that's nearly double what smaller cars have to pay in road tax. Plus costs of essentials like tyres, servicing, even petrol, you're coming out as being more expensive as most cars on the road. And for others to say it's not much different from driving an average 2 litre, I think you should set the litre bracket lower.

@Ashi23 - thanks for getting back to me on that, but I think you're wrong to call my view 'rose-tinted'. I mean, come on, to say people in society have a basic amount of respect for each other isn't pushing things into cloud-cuckoo land. And furthermore, I can't understand how you can call yourself a non-conformist. FFS, non-conformists are people who go against the grain, and wouldn't buy into the idea that owning a 4WD makes you somehow radical. Maybe if you really had to have one, like if you were, say, a particular kind of farmer going against the grain of European policy or something.

I drive a Pug 106 from the 90s (well-serviced, efficient, cheap). Now I'd say that was more unconventional/non-conformist!



I dont drive it as i want to make a point..i drive it because i like it..
ALAS-ALAS, we will never agree on this topic...so let's just agree to disagree...

thanks

I wouldn't say all Range Rover drivers are like this, but here's an example to back up sibon's point:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7654430.stm

And here is an example to counter that (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=454043)

It's about the driver, not the car

OK Squiggs, sure. But are you trying to tell me people buy BMW X5s and Range Rover Sports so they can help people out in the snow?! Don't make me laugh!

I think it is down to attitude and aptitude. Whilst I'm sure that there are a great many polite and skilled drivers of 4x4 vehicles, there are also many numpties out there driving vehicles that are too big for them, in an aggressive manner. If they encase themselves in a massive steel cage, they stand out and people hate them... that's all.

there are also mant numpties driving small cars -any car with a bad driver behind the wheel is dangerous

OK Squiggs, sure. But are you trying to tell me people buy BMW X5s and Range Rover Sports so they can help people out in the snow?! Don't make me laugh!

they are the townies pretending to be something else ,but they are still entitled to drive one

there are also mant numpties driving small cars -any car with a bad driver behind the wheel is dangerous

No doubt, but the ones in the biggest cars stand out the most.