I'm currently looking to buy a house in Sheffield and have seen a few reasonably priced one in Manor Estate (very close to manor park). Does anyone know if this is a good area or not? Any opinions from people who already live here would be appreciated.

I'm concerned since I keep seeing people saying to avoid Manor but I'm not sure if this is the same area that i'm looking at (manor park), sites such as Blundell's list Manor and Manor park as different areas.

Originally posted by Hawk
I'm currently looking to buy a house in Sheffield and have seen a few reasonably priced one in Manor Estate (very close to manor park). Does anyone know if this is a good area or not? Any opinions from people who already live here would be appreciated.

I'm concerned since I keep seeing people saying to avoid Manor but I'm not sure if this is the same area that i'm looking at (manor park), sites such as Blundell's list Manor and Manor park as different areas.


Ok, firstly the area is discussed extensively in these forums (try searching for it and you should find plenty of opinions on the area).

My personal opinion is that it's rough, run down and unsafe. Unless you really can't afford anywhere else, avoid it. That's my opinion anyway.

born and brought up on the manor, ok manor and manor park may be listed as 2 seperate estates but they both run off Harborough Avenue, (quite a long road). Like any area that has a reputation, it truly does depend which part you live in! The houses there are a mix of private and council and from my experience, just cos some of the properties are private, doesnt mean that you're not gonna get any hassle from the residents. But being totally honest I moved from there about 8 years ago, still have friends etc, that live there but I couldn't wait to get away! I don't rate the local schools, Pipworth and Waltheof, I attended those schools myself and fought against sending my own kids there, and luckily I didn't have to.
Unless you have strong family connections and really want to live there, I'd give it some serious thought.

My personal opinion is that it's rough, run down and unsafe. Unless you really can't afford anywhere else, avoid it. That's my opinion anyway.

But by his own admission he's only ever driven through it once.

Listen mate, its got its problems - its an inner city predominantly council estate and the problems that high unemployment and poverty come with. Having said this, I really like it - its not a no go area by any means, if you come and have a drive round you'll see many many well kept houses and gardens, new cars and conservatories. The houses them selves are well made (although the plastering seems to be something they scrimped on???) gardens are spacious and there us usually room to extend. People are on the whole friendly and there is a good sense of community spirit.

As t020 says the manor/manor park has been done to death on here. Manor Park is IMO 'nicer' ;) than Manor.

Good way to check out the estate - go park outside the doctors surgery at Manor Park one evening between 7pm and 11pm and decide for yourself.

The area is not great but probably no worse than some other areas on here which we are not allowed to comment on...

People who slag the Manor off without any first hand experience of the area need to shut up IMO.

Sure the area has a bad REPUTATION but it is nowhere near as bad as some people on here make out, the only time I've experienced a negative aspect is that once or twice cars have been half-inched in broad daylight outside a house on the Vikinglea estate in lower Manor.

But that's only happened like TWICE as I know of in the nearly 4 years I've been visiting said estate on a regular basis.

Originally posted by Rich
People who slag the Manor off without any first hand experience of the area need to shut up IMO.

Sure the area has a bad REPUTATION but it is nowhere near as bad as some people on here make out, the only time I've experienced a negative aspect is that once or twice cars have been half-inched in broad daylight outside a house on the Vikinglea estate in lower Manor.

But that's only happened like TWICE as I know of in the nearly 4 years I've been visiting said estate on a regular basis.

But you slag off Americans and America all the time.... have you any first hand experience?

The area has a bad reputation because its earned it through featuring heavily in news articles, TV programmes, etc, about all kinds of crime.

Originally posted by t020
But you slag off Americans and America all the time.... have you any first hand experience?

The area has a bad reputation because its earned it through featuring heavily in news articles, TV programmes, etc, about all kinds of crime.

Like I said, you can't believe everything you read in the papers or see on the TV.

As for Americans, yes I do have first hand experience of stupid ones, on other forums I post at.

You'd be surprised at their levels of ineptitude/stupidity.

i dont like the place....i catch a bus from there nearly every day and i wouldnt like to live there.

theres a reason they are reasonably priced!! because people want to get out to somewhere better. getting on the property ladder is very good thing to do (as long as you dont overspend your budget) but manor is one of the places i wouldnt even consider. although i have heard some nice new flats have been built off prince or wales road?? not sure thou. and they prob just rented accomodation.

i guess the closer you are to the shops the worse it is... coz thats where all the prats will hang about.

cue the manor people to slag me off and say i dont know 'nuffink'
:D

Right, that's it! I've had enough of this crap!

Yes, certain places on the Manor are dodgy, but then there are places near Ecclesall Road and in Crookes and Hillsborough that are less than desirable!

As a student, I lived in Heeley, Sharrow and Crookes and I presently live in Broomhall. We got broken into when living in Heeley and a friend of mine was mugged and beaten up in Crookes- but although I was warned about Sharrow and Broomhall being dodgy, I've had no bad experiences in either place!

As to the previous comment about the apartments and houses just off Prince of Wales Road, they're not for rent only, they're purely for purchase. The only dwellings that are available for rent are those owned by private landlords.

As I've bought an apartment on the development (which is still being built), I've been up and down to the site on an almost fortnightly basis (for 8 months) at different times of the day and as far as I can see, the area is fine! This is backed up by the residents of the development (many of whom are young professionals or young families that are just starting out).

Attitudes like the ones expressed above ensure that areas with bad reputations are never allowed to get rid of their stigma. Have you never thought that if more 'decent' people took up residence in the area, then the area might improve?


If you don't want to live there, then fine. But don't discourage others until you get your facts straight.

Lib1

told ya. hahaha


i said the flats were supposed to be NICE... get ur glasses on when ur reading posts ;)

and the original poster asked for opinions....so people give them..good, bad and ugly. so i gave my opinion. if YOU dont like it..then dont get ya knickers in a twist.

Originally posted by Lib1

If you don't want to live there, then fine. But don't discourage others until you get your facts straight.

Lib1


Well if it's facts your after, why didn't you just say so? You mention Sharrow and how people warning you about them were wrong. Ok:

Burglaries from a dwelling per 1000 of population - Sharrow = 88, Ecclesall = 19.4, Dore = 16.8, City Avg = 29.4

Robbery offences per 1000 - Sharrow = 12.3, Ecclesall = 1, Dore = 0.6, City Avg = 2.6

Theft from a motor vehicle per 1000 - Sharrow = 43.7, Ecclesall = 13, Dore = 12.7, City Avg = 18.5.

(Source: www.sheffield.gov.uk).

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Personally I think facts are more reliable than your word over an internet forum. It's a shame the crime stats for the Manor ward aren't listed on the council website but I have a feeling it will be even worse than Sharrow.

My point wasn't that areas such as Sharrow, Broomhall, etc are rosy. My point was that there are areas in these places, just like there are areas in Manor that are unsafe. I also wanted to illustrate that places such as Heeley and Crookes that are generally hailed as brilliant and safe areas are not all that perfect.

Of course Sharrow and Manor will have higher crime rates than Crookes- there are more socioeconomoically disadvantaged people living there. What I'm saying is not every single bit of the Manor is a war zone- some of the places are alright!

Originally posted by Lib1
My point wasn't that areas such as Sharrow, Broomhall, etc are rosy. My point was that there are areas in these places, just like there are areas in Manor that are unsafe. I also wanted to illustrate that places such as Heeley and Crookes that are generally hailed as brilliant and safe areas are not all that perfect.

Of course Sharrow and Manor will have higher crime rates than Crookes- there are more socioeconomoically disadvantaged people living there. What I'm saying is not every single bit of the Manor is a war zone- some of the places are alright!

But what you're saying is misleading. Even the "alright" areas of the Manor (alright in your opinion...) will have higher crime stats than places such as Dore, Ecclesall, Fulwood, etc. It's all relative.

That's all good and well, but 'Hawk' can't afford a place in Totley, Dore etc (neither can I for that matter!).

So rather than just rubbish the Manor completely and possibly force Hawk to stay in rented accommodation, I was just trying to point out that the Manor has a bad rep and high crime rates, but some of the areas in Manor aren't too bad!

Take a look for yourself:
http://212.50.188.108/cgi-win/vebra.cgi?details1?src=vebra&PropertyCode=1086010/FRETS/46628/7

http://www.vebra.com/home/includes/vdetails.asp?src=agent&fd=693&bd=0&db=1&cl=2690&pid=9134769

http://212.50.188.108/cgi-win/vebra.cgi?details1?src=vebra&PropertyCode=1104001/BASSL/21232/2


Crikey! Throw me a frikkin bone here!

Lib1

But for around the £100k mark there are much nicer places to live than the Manor, no matter how "alright" you claim that some parts of it are. For that money I'd rather look at houses in Loxley or Woodseats, even if it did mean a smaller house. Infact, you could probably pick up an ex-council house in Totley for not much more than £100k.

You seem to have missed the point. Hawk specifically asked about buying on the Manor (the new-build part just off Prince of Wales Road which is highlighted in the links that I sent yesterday).

People (as usual) immediately rushed in with tales of doom and gloom about Manor in general, but as I know this particular area of the Manor very well (as well as having bought property there, a work colleague of mine has lived there for about two years [we're both graduates by the way, she's a Nurse , I'm a Health Information Specialist and my husband is a Mechanical Engineer!]), I stepped in to give my advice.

As I may have mentioned before, these new houses are filled with young professionals and young families that are starting out. It has great links to the city centre, the train station, and Meadowhall by both tram and bus.

The council houses surrounding the area (which are well kept and seem to be privately owned) are filled with elderly people or young families. Some of the people you see walking about in the area may be wearing tracksuits and the rest of it, but the locals were nothing but friendly to me when I began visiting the site and needed directions, advice etc.

Hawk didn't ask about the most decent place that his/her money can afford, he/she asked about the Manor new-build estate and I answered his/her questions. The place is alright! Not brilliant, not fantastic, but decent and safe enough!

Bloomin' eck!

Lib1

I'll take your word for it then (or should I take more notice of the official crime stats?).

All i can say is.. dont go there!

Originally posted by t020
I'll take your word for it then (or should I take more notice of the official crime stats?).

t020, why are you so anal about statistics? Yes, stats are important and should be taken account of, but you seem so eager to reject any kind of qualatitive (sp) information out of hand. Without personal testimony it is impossible to gain a true reflection of something.

Originally posted by mat1978
t020, why are you so anal about statistics? Yes, stats are important and should be taken account of, but you seem so eager to reject any kind of qualatitive (sp) information out of hand. Without personal testimony it is impossible to gain a true reflection of something.

Because so many people on this forum have always wanted me to "look at the FACTS". The facts are that the Manor is one of the most deprived areas in the country with one of the highest crime rates. From what I've seen of it driving through and on TV programmes/news reports, I can also form my own personal opinion on what the area looks like - predominantly run down with large gatherings of "chavs". So, based on FACT and OPINION, I wouldn't want to live there.

like ive said before i moved onto the manor just over a week ago, i havent been mugged, had my house broke into or had my car pinched/torched. the road doesnt look filthy or run down ( im in the middle of decorating so mine does look abit ruff)

is it just me or does anyone else grate at the name chav? i had never even heard of it until a few months ago and now all ya get is chav this chav that......... IMO these so called chavs are just ordinary folks following one of the latest fashions whether it be clothes cars jewellery or wot ever.

Litha

I disagree with you, t020, to a certain extent.

YES, the Manor is a socially and economically disadvantaged district.

yes, there is SOME" crime (and because of the demographics of the specific crime-committers, the stats seem to be weighted more to the negative than the positive.

BUT you overlook the grass-roots people who are working on the Manor, and with the Manor, to help turn the situation, and reputation of the district around. to help give the youth there, some horizons *wider* than their greatest achievements being the number of cars "twokked", or number of windows smashed that day.

there's the genuine, decent people who live/ work on the Manor.

There's the redevelopment companies. like Manor reborn, and Manor development and enterprise centre etc. all doing good, sterling work to help the "Manorites" lift themselves above the national cries of "scum! chav! etc". and make the manor a better place to live in, and counter the reoputation that it has...

let's face it..

When there's talk of crime stats, where do the national and local media go for "authenticity and flavour?" yes, the Manor.

when there's talk of a crime, what do folk often say?
oh, yeah, must be on the manor!
etc

when the "Manorites" hear the district being pulled to pieces, there is no incentive for them to be positive, and no encouragement to take pride in the district. it is in a vicious circle. the estate has a reputation, therefore the people act in a way expected of them as per the reputation. and so the myth is perpetuated.

For a change, lets hear about what's positive on the Manor,for once!

PT

Here, here!

Someone mentioned that on the BBC programme 'Traffic Cops' (or whatever it's called)- most of the cars shown being nicked in Sheffield are on the Manor estate.

However, have any of you actually ever thought that those that live outside of Shef and watch the programme would think that the WHOLE of Shef has a high car crime rate?

When I first came to Sheffield as a student, I was warned by people (non-Sheffielders) that Sheffield was really rough and dangerous- I've been here for nearly 8 years now and I've had a great experience living here!

Slamming the WHOLE of the Manor, if the same as slamming the WHOLE of Sheffield because certain places have high rates of crime.

Most statistics are b*ll*cks anyway and are not truly representative!

Lib1

precisely, lib 1 !

I don't care whether or not they're *trying* to turn things around. My opinion, and the FACTS, show that most people wouldn't want to live there and that it is crime-ridden and deprived.

Just to remind everyone of the initial question for this thread:
Any opinions on manor estate?

The above is mine (and I suspect a lot of others too that hold back because they know they'll get pounced upon by people struggling to defend the place). I've answered the thread question and that is that.

Originally posted by mat1978
Without personal testimony it is impossible to gain a true reflection of something.

Not strictly true... A personal testimony must come from one of your peers. Someone who has similar life experiences and tastes to yourself.

In the case of living on the Manor, perhaps someone who has lived there all their lives is not this person. After living there all this time, what is negligable to that person, may be of the utmost importance to the person who is interested in the area. Similarly, the same goes from someone who has never lived there...

However, as t020, rightly points out, the statistics from the local council and the police ARE important. A chat with the local bobby may be an informative way to find out about the area...

OK- You want facts, let the facts speak for themselves:

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/tool/default.asp?region=7&force=24&cdrp=239&l1=0&l2=0&l3=0&sub=0&v=21

The whole of Sheffield has crime rates higher than the national average! That's it, I must move from Sheffield immediately before I am mugged, shot, knifed, raped, stabbed, kidnapped, murdered etc

Lib1

Sheffield covers a large area, within which there are several places (as I have shown in the other thread, such as Dore, Ecclesall and Fulwood wards) which are well below the city and national averages. The Manor however is quite a specific, small area. Even if one road there had really low crime stats it would still be within a very close proximity to roads with high crime stats.

PS. Sheffield's crime stats compare favourably to other large cities, e.g.

Leeds - http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/tool/default.asp?region=7&force=28&cdrp=106&l1=0&l2=0&l3=0&sub=0&v=21

Manchester - http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/tool/default.asp?region=3&force=2&l1=0&l2=0&l3=0&sub=0&v=21

Nottingham (!!) - http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/tool/default.asp?region=8&force=5&cdrp=213&l1=0&l2=0&l3=0&sub=0&v=21

OK then, so what you're saying is that as Sheffield is fairly close to areas (Leeds and Nottingham) which have higher crime rates, then by living in Sheffield I am still at risk?

If one street in Manor has virtually no crime, but it is surrounded by streets that have higher rates of crime- what does that matter to me? I'm safe on my own street. If crime rates are higher on the surrounding streets then the fact that my street has very low crime rates means that the crime in the surrounding areas does not affect me.

If there was one crime ridden street surrounded by crime free streets, would this mean that the crime ridden street is safe due to the close proximity to the safer areas?

I think not.

Lib1

Just noticed the quote at the end of your messages:

"Supposed do-gooders, with their silly and pathetic perceptions of what other races and religions might find offensive, do as much harm in a multi-cultural society as any racist could achieve. They are two extremes yet seem to aspire towards the same goal."

No wonder you are being so ignorant about the Manor estate- you're probably just ignorant in general!

Originally posted by Lib1
Here, here!

Someone mentioned that on the BBC programme 'Traffic Cops' (or whatever it's called)- most of the cars shown being nicked in Sheffield are on the Manor estate.

However, have any of you actually ever thought that those that live outside of Shef and watch the programme would think that the WHOLE of Shef has a high car crime rate?

When I first came to Sheffield as a student, I was warned by people (non-Sheffielders) that Sheffield was really rough and dangerous- I've been here for nearly 8 years now and I've had a great experience living here!

Slamming the WHOLE of the Manor, if the same as slamming the WHOLE of Sheffield because certain places have high rates of crime.

Most statistics are b*ll*cks anyway and are not truly representative!

Lib1

I hope you didn't come to Sheffield as a student of English. The expression is hear, hear :)

The Manor has always been a s**t hole. My gran lived there for 20 years. It was rough when she moved there in the 60s and when she left in the 80s it had only got worse. We used to dread visiting her.

During the slum clearance of the late 50s, families considered "unsuitable" - ie too dirty or disruptive (or both) to be offered a house on one of the brand new council estates such as Gleadless Valley, were shunted onto the Manor where they were given an already dilapidated house alongside similar white trash families. Thus creating a ghetto.

I see from watching Traffic Cops recently that things have not improved much.

Couldn't find an icon to represent me banging my forehead against my desk repeatedly....

Look at the new apartments on West St and the ones near Devonshire Green in particular. When I first came to Shef, that area was a dodgy no go zone (the most memorable news story was that a female student was raped on Devonshire Green at about 7pm in the summer- i.e. in broad daylight! As students, after this incident we all received email from the Uni warning us about travelling in groups if walking about in that area).

However, they have since built the Headford Gardens, Headford Mews etc apartments/houses as well as the West One apartments. The place is now highly sought after!

When I tell old Uni mates (who've since moved away) about the transformation, they're shocked.

That's urban regeneration for ya! That's the kind of thing they're trying to achieve not only on the Manor, but in Norfolk Park as well (and I suspect may other 'deprived' areas in Sheffield).

By constantly bad mouthing areas or scoffing at attempts to improve them, you're not helping anything! In my posts, I have written to state that I personally know of young professionals that live on the new build estate of the Manor and yet you and t020 keep telling people that the entire Manor area is full of low-life scum and chavs!

Originally posted by Lib1
OK then, so what you're saying is that as Sheffield is fairly close to areas (Leeds and Nottingham) which have higher crime rates, then by living in Sheffield I am still at risk?

No, I'm saying that there are miles and miles between them so it's safe.

Originally posted by Lib1

If one street in Manor has virtually no crime, but it is surrounded by streets that have higher rates of crime- what does that matter to me? I'm safe on my own street. If crime rates are higher on the surrounding streets then the fact that my street has very low crime rates means that the crime in the surrounding areas does not affect me.

But when the crime is only a street away, it's highly likely to overlap, and it is unlikely that there is any street that is crime free anywhere, let alone on the Manor!

Originally posted by Lib1
Couldn't find an icon to represent me banging my forehead against my desk repeatedly....

Look at the new apartments on West St and the ones near Devonshire Green in particular. When I first came to Shef, that area was a dodgy no go zone (the most memorable news story was that a female student was raped on Devonshire Green at about 7pm in the summer- i.e. in broad daylight! As students, after this incident we all received email from the Uni warning us about travelling in groups if walking about in that area).

However, they have since built the Headford Gardens, Headford Mews etc apartments/houses as well as the West One apartments. The place is now highly sought after!

When I tell old Uni mates (who've since moved away) about the transformation, they're shocked.

That's urban regeneration for ya! That's the kind of thing they're trying to achieve not only on the Manor, but in Norfolk Park as well (and I suspect may other 'deprived' areas in Sheffield).

By constantly bad mouthing areas or scoffing at attempts to improve them, you're not helping anything! In my posts, I have written to state that I personally know of young professionals that live on the new build estate of the Manor and yet you and t020 keep telling people that the entire Manor area is full of low-life scum and chavs!


It's not full of them, it just has a lot more than it's fair share. The facts speak for themselves I'm afraid. You're fighting a losing battle - the Manor will never be a desirable place to live, no matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise.

PS. My signature message was debated here:
http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22236
but I fail to see the relevance of bringing it into this "debate". :confused:
Clutching at straws? ;)

Not 'Clutching at straws' just making a point..

The point being that as well as scoffing at those trying to improve 'deprived' areas, you also seem to be scoffing at those trying to improve race relations.

Basically your points about the Manor and your points about race/culture (highlighted in your signature) add up the the same thing:

The dismal status quo is the norm. Any attempts to improve present conditions are futile and ridiculous.

i used to live on manor park estate harborough road until 1963 it was a lovely place to live people were so friendly and i think still are has it gone down hill because the youth of today dont have enough to do with their spare time we have problems where i live now but the youngsters are encourged to join clubs etc is it because mothers these days have to go to work to make ends meet

Originally posted by Lib1
Not 'Clutching at straws' just making a point..

The point being that as well as scoffing at those trying to improve 'deprived' areas, you also seem to be scoffing at those trying to improve race relations.

Basically your points about the Manor and your points about race/culture (highlighted in your signature) add up the the same thing:

The dismal status quo is the norm. Any attempts to improve present conditions are futile and ridiculous.

Race relations and housing on the Manor are two entirely mutually exclusive issues. I pointed you to the relevant thread for my signature - use that thread to discuss it, this thread is for the Manor.

On topic, I'm not "scoffing" at people trying to improve deprived areas. However, I am a realist and I don't think that a load of rose-tinted views will help the original poster - they need to hear everyone's views, whether you like them or not.

You are guilty of the same thing that you have accused me of! You can only see the Manor in a negative light- you have made no effort to provide a balanced view or congratulate efforts to try and regenerate the area.

You say I look at the Manor with rose tinted glasses, but you seem to have overlooked the fact that I've never even tried to claim that ANY parts of the Manor are PERFECTLY safe (I would never claim that any part of Sheffield [or any other city/town/village for that matter] is perfectly safe- THAT would be unrealistic!).

Similarly to the current thread about Norfolk Park ( http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29893 ) the purpose of the new build development is an urban regeneration scheme to try and improve the Manor (or at least the parts near the Bellways new build development, which when it is completed in 2007 will be absolutely massive!) partly by bringing in newcomers to the area. The housing on the development may be modestly priced in comparison to other properties in Sheffield, but they are by no means cheap, so these newcomers are likely to be hardworking people in full time employment (as the majority of the existing Manor folk probably are too!).

I'm not saying that the development is going to fantastically reform the area, but hopefully it will help to improve it.

By saying the Manor is basically a hellhole and always will be, is it so inconceivable to you that in 20 years, 50 years or even a 100 years time, things may have changed? Look at other areas in Sheffield that were once quite reputable, but now have become run down over the years. Alteratively, look at those area that have become regenerated and are now desirable places to live in. Come on! Now who is being unrealistic?

Lib1

Originally posted by t020
Race relations and housing on the Manor are two entirely mutually exclusive issues. I pointed you to the relevant thread for my signature - use that thread to discuss it, this thread is for the Manor.

On topic, I'm not "scoffing" at people trying to improve deprived areas. However, I am a realist and I don't think that a load of rose-tinted views will help the original poster - they need to hear everyone's views, whether you like them or not.

t020, there is a big difference between being a realist, and being negative.

If you tell someone, enough times, constantly browbeating them, that they are "useless" , "rubbish", "scum", "fit for nothing", etc, etc, (Insert insult/ derogatory remark of your choice) pretty soon, they will start to believe it of themselves, and it will become a Self-fulfilling prophesy.

thr reality of the siuation is that , yes, there ARE pockets on the Manor, just like on other estates where there is a minority criminal / antisocial element.

but your comments totally paint over and disregard the experience of the thousands of decent people who live and work on the manor. Who simply want to work together and make the district as decent an estate as it was in earlier years.

I won't labour the point, as I covered a lot of it in my post above.

but think on this metaphor...

How can the decent folk on the Manor pull themselves out of the mire(swamp?) that is the negative reputation, if there are people like you, who say:- "I don't care that this (insert positive thing of your choice here) is being done. The Manor is full of scabs and scum, and always will be" and promptly push the peolpl and the good work back under the swamp's surface?


You have to have a balance


You have to acknowledge that, although there is a negative element on the Manor, it is a MINORITY element, and that by and large, the rest of the residents and workers on there- who are actually in a MAJORITY are decent honest people.

PT

*yawn*

Yes, I acknowledge the majority of people there aren't criminals, and yes, isn't it brilliant that they're trying to regenerate the area? However, even though it is a minority of criminals, it still makes the place one of the most crime ridden places to live in the UK. You can't change the facts through idealism.

Originally posted by Plain Talker
t020, there is a big difference between being a realist, and being negative.

If you tell someone, enough times, constantly browbeating them, that they are "useless" , "rubbish", "scum", "fit for nothing", etc, etc, (Insert insult/ derogatory remark of your choice) pretty soon, they will start to believe it of themselves, and it will become a Self-fulfilling prophesy.

thr reality of the siuation is that , yes, there ARE pockets on the Manor, just like on other estates where there is a minority criminal / antisocial element.

but your comments totally paint over and disregard the experience of the thousands of decent people who live and work on the manor. Who simply want to work together and make the district as decent an estate as it was in earlier years.

I won't labour the point, as I covered a lot of it in my post above.

but think on this metaphor...

How can the decent folk on the Manor pull themselves out of the mire(swamp?) that is the negative reputation, if there are people like you, who say:- "I don't care that this (insert positive thing of your choice here) is being done. The Manor is full of scabs and scum, and always will be" and promptly push the peolpl and the good work back under the swamp's surface?


You have to have a balance


You have to acknowledge that, although there is a negative element on the Manor, it is a MINORITY element, and that by and large, the rest of the residents and workers on there- who are actually in a MAJORITY are decent honest people.

PT

Well done PT, you tell him good! :D

Originally posted by Rich
Well done PT, you tell him good! :D

In a "not-really" kind of way. The crime figures tell it better than either of us ever could.:hihi:

Not sure if you're from the area of Ecclesall or if you live on Ecclesall Road, but is it as safe as you seem to think it is?:

http://www.southyorks.police.uk/students/safer_streets.php

Maybe not as unsafe as the Manor, but not great either hmmm?

This will be my last post on this topic. I agree to disagree, but know that I will be very happy in my new neighbourhood (once the bloody apartment has finished being built!)

Lib1

Originally posted by Lib1
Not sure if you're from the area of Ecclesall or if you live on Ecclesall Road, but is it as safe as you seem to think it is?:


I'm from the area of Ecclesall, so that's that little attempt failed I'm afraid. I've shown before that the ward of Ecclesall has some of the lowest crime figures in Sheffield, and most of Ecclesall Road doesn't fall into the Ecclesall ward anyway. Nice try, no cigar. ;)

*yawn* yourself, t020. I think that your record has got stuck in its groove.

There are areas in sheffield that I definitely would not consider living in, not necessarily for reasons of crime stats. (terrain- i.e. stepness of the land and proximity to flooding, are one consideration)

Manor isn't one of the areas I would not be interested in living in.

You are being unrealistically negative. there are areas up and down the country which have higher crime levels than manor, and I could point you to a couple of areas within sheffield that are worse (But we'd only be flogging the proverbial dead-horse).

You need to get off your hobby horse, and realise that not everyone is priveliged enough to live in ivory towers in S11:- but, meh, they live where they live, and just "get on with the Graft" of living their lives, where they live, doing their best to improve the area around them, trying to make their little bit of difference.

You know, just becauise the postcode isn't one of the "swish" areas, doesn't mean that a body can't have a pride in their home area....

I lived on the manor, for quite some years, and on the adjoining area, Arbourthorne, in five different properties (one of which I lived in when I lived at home, 26 years ago, the other four were my own tenancies).

Now, how can the areas have been as bad as you paint them, If folk are moving house WITHIN the district?

If it was as bad as you paint it, then folk would be teeming out of the area, like lemmings over a cliff... and I don't see that, at all.

What I see are the lovely new homes going up, and people willing to buy, and help contribute to the regeneration of what has been an economically and socially deprived area.

If it had not been for the council refusing to adapt my home for my disability needs, I would still have been in my former tenancy, at Arbourthorne (which is classed as the Manor Parish, BTW) I only moved to this place I am in now because it had the necessary adaptions to allow me to live more independantly.


You say "you can't change the facts through idealism" Yes, that's true, it takes a lot of grass-roots grafting to do that, I acknowledge that.

But, consider this.... have you ever heard the old saying, "Give a dog a bad name, and hang him?"

PT

Ok, 2 things here:

1) AGAIN can I remind you of the thread title "any opinions on Manor estate?". I've offered mine, why are you so scared of bad opinions of the place? Would you prefer it if I lied to the original poster?

2) Read your signature and take heed of your own advice: "You are entitled to your own opinions. what you are NOT entitled to, are your own facts!"
I've had my own opinion, I've offered the official FACTS, let me be entitled to it.

Originally posted by t020
Ok, 2 things here:

1) AGAIN can I remind you of the thread title "any opinions on Manor estate?". I've offered mine, why are you so scared of bad opinions of the place? Would you prefer it if I lied to the original poster?

2) Read your signature and take heed of your own advice: "You are entitled to your own opinions. what you are NOT entitled to, are your own facts!"
I've had my own opinion, I've offered the official FACTS, let me be entitled to it.

The problem is you havent offered any 'facts' on the Manor as you said,

It's a shame the crime stats for the Manor ward aren't listed on the council website

Your 'opinion' is at best outdated, at worst, plainly wrong - surely the OP needs to know this? I dont think anyone would say the Manor/Manor Park is affluent or that it has no problems. I lived most of my life now and can honestly say I would rather be here than living with a bunch of nimbyistic (thats never a word!) snobs Eccesall, Dore, Fulwood etc etc (but I suppose I'm stereotyping now).

To answer the Original question, The Manor - in my experience - is the best value for money area of Sheffield.

I've lived on the Manor for the last 3 years in the new development off Prince of Wales Road. I find that it has its moments. Usually its quite quiet where we are but in the holidays when the kids are about it gets more excitable.
Car theft and robberies are NOT that common and on my street I can only remember there being 1 burglary and 4 cars being broken into in 3 years!
The people are mostly friendly but the teenages give it its bad name. They can be rude and unfriendly.
At present there is a 9pm curfew in place on the Manor as there is in other areas of Sheffield - Meersbrook, etc. Anyone under 18 caught out after this time is escorted home by the police.
Things have improved and will continue to so long as people stick together and support each other. The reputation the Manor has got was gained about 10-15 years ago when it was a completely different estate with different people. Since then it has tried to improve and these new builds are really making a difference.
Finally, remember that every area has its problems, its how the community acts towards them that counts.

sorry to say even poping up there to visit friends scares the bejeezus outta me, it doesn't have a great feel, but saying that some of the houses are ok! in general as an area i wouldn't recomend it.

Well, just to add to the controversy, I popped into my old haunt on the Manor last Sturday - there was one group of youths kicking seven bells out of an illuminated ad. board and another group having a go at the Vicki Wines store.

Then I went to the Esso petrol station, and there was a group about 20+ strong who were giving the female attendant all sorts of verbal abuse and they were taking the coal from the display, throwing it all over, kicking the door in (she had locked it by then) and attempting to knock the CCTV cameras down with sticks and taking the pump nozzles out and leaving them lying around - it was extremely dangerous and the whole situation felt very threatening.

Nothing I have read here has made me decide to view the Manor in a new light, in fact after Saturday, I think it is worse than ever. Live on the Manor, no thanks.

Hi
I drive through that area everyday and I have seen boys throwing stones on the buses!

Averi

It's OK driving buses through there - just don't stop.

/sorry, couldn't resist that one...

My shop's window be smash on monday 14th march at evening while the shop open. Three kids ridden by bicycle did it ( How can I caught it? ). Even I call the police, but they didn't turn up.
That incident is not happen at first time.
Now I work at fear and helpless.

The Manor…….

This old chestnut again……My offer is still open from my previous posts for me to give a tour of the Manor…..I would particularly like to hear from people who have only driven through the estate once and formed a misguided opinion.

Well said!!:) As some of you are aware I am the starter of several similar threads. Thanks again to all those genuine people who helped me out.

I moved to Sheffield only 2 years ago. I lived in a very quiet and private area in Lancashire, and moved straight onto the Manor.

In the 2 years I have lived here I have met some of the nicest people you could ever wish to meet, and made some very good friends. I have achieved more since living in this area than I ever did before, and feel I owe it all to the opportunities I have been lucky enough to have. All of which I believe are as a result of me moving to Sheffield and living where I do. I am very proud to live in Sheffield and also to live in the Manor area. I agree as alot of others do that things could be better and there are the minority who don't do the area any favours, but PLEASE don't put everyone who lives here in the same catagory. As stevie1957 said, if you took the time to come and have a look around the area you would be suprised that it's no where near as bad as you think.

Thankyou :thumbsup:

Originally posted by stevie1957
I would particularly like to hear from people who have only driven through the estate once and formed a misguided opinion. What about people who worked there 6 days a week for many years?
Originally posted by chez26
but PLEASE don't put everyone who lives here in the same catagory. But unfortunately the area is only as good as it's worst element, and lets face it, it's not like it's just a group of chavs that have just 'sprung up' from no where, it's been the same for years. Its reputation is well earnt and from my own very lengthy and recent experience, nothing has changed, at least not for the better.

I beg to differ. What about the decent people who live in the area? Are you willing to accept that not everyone is the same??:confused:

As I said I moved here from what you would probably call a decent area. Private houses and a quiet residential area. I moved to the Manor area 2 years ago, surely who I am and my morals etc. count for more when it comes to judging me rather than the area I live in??

Anyone know anything about buses being stopped from going through the Hackenthorpe area of Sheffield in the last few years, something to do with trouble??:confused:

I agree with Chez. There are a lot of things that could be dragged up about the Hackenthorpe. Gang attacks on pensioners…...people being knifed…..gangs of youths terrifying the decent people of Hackenthorpe. All well documented in the local press and TV.

And if you want to go on about reputations well earned…..what about during and after the miner’s strike when neighbour turned on neighbour.

I've been reading this thread with interest and I think there are a few things I'd like to add.
Firstly - there's a difference between a 'safe' area and a 'good' area. You're more likely to be raped or mugged in a cusp area eg- sharrow or broomhall than the manor. Even though these areas have more students and professionals and good pubs etc.
The manor is, as some people have pointed out, a place where people are given council houses if they can't get into a good area. The manor is not dangerous, it just has harmless groups of teenagers wandering around looking for something to do. You might get stones thrown at your bus or people drinking outside spar etc, but you get this everywhere in sheffield, including Totley, Dore and the rest.
The main thing with any council estate is your neighbours. As my parents have got older, they've lived in council bungalows for old epople and their street is very quiet, very friendly and everyone cleans their doorstep and does all those other nice things that old folks do.
I would only live on the manor if I got to meet my neighbours and made sure they weren't the type who argue at 3am, have barking dogs etc.

The Maor Estate has always had a bad reputation as long as I have known itt. Whether desarved or not. You would think that over the years old residents would move or die off and be replaced by an entirely different selection.
One of the Doctors who worked at Manor Clinic wrote a thesis on the Manor estate and it was sent in to Sir Keith Joseph a cabinet minister of the time.
She found out that the Manor people seemed to revert or come back in 3 generations. So continuing the cycle.
This was a long time ago, before council houses were for sale, so perhaps now it is different. Just thought I'd mention it.
Hazel

I lived on the manor for 7 years. In the first house it was terrfying, groups of youths hanging around the shops at all hours (I worked in the shop and was threatened with a knife on more than one occasion). Beatings, intimidation and abuse were the norm. One neighbour came out of his door to see the next house being broken into and was too terrified to call the police after being told it would be him next if he did. There was trouble at least once a week. :(
When we moved it was a lovely part of estate, friendly neighbours, a lovely house and good community spirit. :)
These houses were on opposite sides of Prince Of Wales Road and a mere 3 bus stops appart.
My point is that you can not lump the estate together and dismiss it or defend it as a whole.
And at the end of the day its not the postcode its the people. Regeneration will never work not matter how much money is thrown at it if decent people are scared off the area and its reputation as a getto is constantly reinforced.
The manor is huge, I think its more constructive to look at the individual parts, as my experience illustrates there can be a world of difference in 500 yards!

Originally posted by chez26
I beg to differ. What about the decent people who live in the area? Are you willing to accept that not everyone is the same??:confused:
I never said that everyone was the same - there are some very, very decent people who live in the Manor area including many friends of mine. But, unfortunatley, the bad ones are worse than many (but not all) areas.

Originally posted by stevie1957
There are a lot of things that could be dragged up about the Hackenthorpe. Gang attacks on pensioners…...people being knifed…..gangs of youths terrifying the decent people of Hackenthorpe. All well documented in the local press and TV.

And if you want to go on about reputations well earned…..what about during and after the miner’s strike when neighbour turned on neighbour.OK, you've lost me now - I thought the question was "Any opinions on manor estate?".

And exactly where does the miners strike come into it? Is the Manor full of ex-miners or something? - nope, lost me completely on that one...

It was the reputations well earned bit in your post...if you need further explannation just liet me know.

Maddy's was an Interesting post….with comments like “no matter how much money you throw at it”. Last time I heard that comment was from a labour councillor living in the leafy suburbs……..

some good points Maddy, which I will reply to later today...it's very late now.

Originally posted by stevie1957
Maddy's was an Interesting post….with comments like “no matter how much money you throw at it”. Last time I heard that comment was from a labour councillor living in the leafy suburbs……..

some good points Maddy, which I will reply to later today...it's very late now.

Surfice it to say I am not a labour councillor living in the leafy suburbs (Grimesthorpe is more factories than forna! lol) :)
I smply mean that spending x amount on new youth centres etc will not change the attitude and behaviour of dispuptive minorities on its own.
Re education and tough conseqeuces for trouble makers are whats needed.

Originally posted by Maddy
Surfice it to say I am not a labour councillor living in the leafy suburbs (Grimesthorpe is more factories than forna! lol) :)
I smply mean that spending x amount on new youth centres etc will not change the attitude and behaviour of dispuptive minorities on its own.
Re education and tough conseqeuces for trouble makers are whats needed.

I know what you mean Maddy. I was quoting our ex Councillor who used to tell us what's best for us then go home to his posh house in the leafy suburbs.

Education is the key.....I work in a training centre on the estate.

Originally posted by Hawk
I'm currently looking to buy a house in Sheffield and have seen a few reasonably priced one in Manor Estate (very close to manor park). Does anyone know if this is a good area or not? Any opinions from people who already live here would be appreciated.

I'm concerned since I keep seeing people saying to avoid Manor but I'm not sure if this is the same area that i'm looking at (manor park), sites such as Blundell's list Manor and Manor park as different areas.

everybody says it is rough but the only rough parts are where the counsil houses are,the riff raff usually stay away from the area where the private houses are being built,my advice would be for you is to go & have a look round yourself & then you can judge for yourself wether or not you like the area.


best wishes

mark.

I second Mark1971's opinion on council estate vs private housing areas in the Manor.

I spent saturday afternoon walking around the new-build development just off the Prince of Wales Road. I have purchased an apartment on the development and wanted to give the surrounding area a good look over. Very sad way to spend a Saturday arvo, I know, but I keep hearing bad things about the Manor estate and I just wanted to make sure that none of it applied to this particular area.

I usually just go straight to the newest part where my flat is being built, but I spent an hour walking up and down the streets of the older part (about 3 years old) of the development as well.

I was on the look-out for tell-tale signs of dodgyness- ie- broken glass, graffitti, boarded up windows, gangs of surly youths, crack/smack heads etc.

As I expected (and to my relief!), the area was totally clean, tidy and quiet. All I saw were some little kids (clean looking, well looked after kids that appeared to live on the development) walking to the park (a nice, clean park with no graffitti or intravenous needles scatted about!) in the centre of the development, people driving to/driving back from town (or wherever), people lounging about in their gardens doing a bit of gardening/ hanging out their washing, and a couple of old ladies walking to a nearby bus stop.

In fact- the only 'dodgy' goings-on in the entire development was ME snooping about the place!

To those of you that slam the Manor- please be more specific about the areas that you are talking about. The entire area of the Manor is not dodgy! I was on my own on Saturday, so the fact I wasn't mugged/raped/murdered even though I'm a young and petite (munchkin short!) female should help to vouch for that!

Lib1

How refreshing!!:clap: It's lovely to here from someone who is prepared to give the place a chance and has actually taken time out to have a proper look around!!! I hope you enjoy living in your new apartment Lib1!!!!!:D

Excellent, positive posts from Marl1971, Chez26 and Lib1.

I think we can say that this thread has run its course.

Originally posted by stevie1957
I think we can say that this thread has run its course. Very true, and I hope all who decide to give the area a chance find it a positive experience. Both opinions have been given a good airing, and we can only hope that good prevails, we all want a decent place to live at the end of the day. :-)

Originally posted by yorkiepudd
Very true, and I hope all who decide to give the area a chance find it a positive experience. Both opinions have been given a good airing, and we can only jope that good prevails, we all want a decent place to live at the end of the day. :-)

Here here!!!! :thumbsup: