I've got a feeling this thread might bring out some very opposing views. Which is why I'm posting it.

A colleague I was working with today casually mentioned that her and her husband (a pathologist), let their five year old daughter watch 'Anatomy for Beginners' on Channel Four.

When I first heard the comment I was a bit taken back, but then started to think about it. The reason that the program is controversial is that as adults we often find the thought of seeing a person (live or deceased) being cut open quite horrific. Some of us find it difficult to deal with something that is perfectly natural and happens every day. Some really funny folk would watch it knowing full well that they can't deal with it then write a complaint, suggesting that this sort of thing shouldn't be in the public domain at all. Anyway, I digress. After some thought, I came to the conclusion that a child has not yet developed the fear that we have. Perhaps by watching such a program the child could learn about their body and how it works. It could well prevent the child from having this fear in later life.

Is this acceptable, or does it take something away from the child's innocence?

From what I understand the child in question was not forced to watch, but requested to. I believe she found it fascinating and not in the slightest bit scary.

I voted Yes. I learn't more in one week than i learn't in years at school. Explain to the kids exactly what they can expect to see and let them decide for themselves.

I voted no because I think it is better if the parents are open with the kids and don't rely on anyone else to fully educate their children, in my opinion it helps them to grow up with less taboos.

I think education is so important for our youngsters, but I can also think of lots more appropriate lessons they cold learn at 5 years.

We're adults for a long time (if we're lucky). Let the kids stay kids for a while. I don't think we should be exposing kids to this kind of thing at such a young age. Age 8 or 9 is maybe more appropriate.

K x

Owl, I don't think they were relying on it. With the father being a man of medicine he educates them as well, but as it was she requested to watch the program so he decided to let her.

This is what i'm not sure about; if it does take anything away from their innocence. if they don't find it shocking and scary then maybe it doesn't.

As a biology teacher I have had lots of kids come up to me and say how good the programmes were. The GCSE pupils said that it was very informative and helped them with the structure of the lung and heart. ( they said the blowing up of the lungs was cool)

We do still do dissection at school on sheep or pig hearts or lungs but hearts are hard to find nowadays without the hearts having massive slits cut into them and the arteries missing. Good lungs are near enough impossible to get unless we get them through a company that sells them at £7.00 each, a fortune when you have 3 classes of 30! So they end up seeming a demo which is pretty boring for them.

I think the programmes were cool and it's great to see children interested in something factual on telly even if it seems a bit gruesome to some.

Originally posted by Evei
As a biology teacher I have had lots of kids come up to me and say how good the programmes were. The GCSE pupils said that it was very informative and helped them with the structure of the lung and heart. ( they said the blowing up of the lungs was cool)

We do still do dissection at school on sheep or pig hearts or lungs but hearts are hard to find nowadays without the hearts having massive slits cut into them and the arteries missing. Good lungs are near enough impossible to get unless we get them through a company that sells them at £7.00 each, a fortune when you have 3 classes of 30! So they end up seeming a demo which is pretty boring for them.

I think the programmes were cool and it's great to see children interested in something factual on telly even if it seems a bit gruesome to some.

Thanks for the insightful answer. Do you think the same for a small child as well?

Seeing that this program is screened after children in any self respecting home. should be in bed I think that if they are watching it...it is at the parents discretion.

Children should be monitored as to what they watch on tv by their parents.......to complain about programs is easy......if you do not like it!!! switch over to another channel....it is simple.....

I wouldn't allow children to see it until they are at an age where they could make their own mature and responsible decision as to whether they actually want to see it.

However being someone that deals with dead people and stuff a fair bit, I'm pretty numb to it all and tend to forget how it affects other people, and the children of people I know grow up fascinated with it, and have no concept of it being nasty/taboo.

Personally I wouldnt allow my son to watch it, I believe it is far too graphic for a child of 5.

I believe it is educational and has its uses to medical students / nurses etc but where children at the age of 5 are concerned I think no way is it acceptable, children can still learn about anatomy but in a more fun way with plastic models & books & in a way that is not disturbing for their delicate developing minds.

Children are not children for very long, exposing them to the images of a dead body being cut open is too much and I would be worried about it causing nightmares etc.

Thats just my opinion though.

Jo

Originally posted by Squashie28
Personally I wouldnt allow my son to watch it, I believe it is far too graphic for a child of 5.

I believe it is educational and has its uses to medical students / nurses etc but where children at the age of 5 are concerned I think no way is it acceptable, children can still learn about anatomy but in a more fun way with plastic models & books & in a way that is not disturbing for their delicate developing minds.

Children are not children for very long, exposing them to the images of a dead body being cut open is too much and I would be worried about it causing nightmares etc.

Thats just my opinion though.

Jo

i agree with that - it's of course good if they show an interest in how the body works but there are gentler ways of introducing them. It may not be harmful at all but there again, it just may particularly for a child of 5

For younger children it is probably a bit too gruesome and could cause problems with nightmares etc.
I was allowed to watch the film Threads at a young age and spent the next two years terrified that a nuclear bomb was going to come through my bedroom window.

i watched the exorcist when i was 10 !!! :o that scarred me for ages!

erm i did that without the knowledge of me parents so serves myself right

Originally posted by Squashie28


I believe it is educational and has its uses to medical students / nurses etc but where children at the age of 5 are concerned I think no way is it acceptable, children can still learn about anatomy but in a more fun way with plastic models & books & in a way that is not disturbing for their delicate developing minds.



This is why I thought the program was a bit gratuitous, it was so basic it was actually of no use whatsoever to anyone who had already studied any anatomy (i.e. medical students etc.) and it was made in a way that its purpose was as entertainment rather than education which is wrong.

Originally posted by Twiglet
This is why I thought the program was a bit gratuitous, it was so basic it was actually of no use whatsoever to anyone who had already studied any anatomy (i.e. medical students etc.) and it was made in a way that its purpose was as entertainment rather than education which is wrong.

I didn't actually watch anatomy as I'm trying not to watch TV at all at the moment. I did watch the live autopsy when it was on and it seemed more for show than actual education. It was done in a very rushed manner and didn't expand beyond a very basic knowledge of anatomy.

I think it depends on the child, if the child wants to be a doctor or is interested in such things then its not so bad,

but if the child is prone to nightmares then its a very stupid idea,

It is up to the parent to make the right decision in each case but I dont see any harm in teaching children to a good standard from a young age.

That is presuming that was the point of showing athe child the programme.

Originally posted by jonsastar
I think it depends on the child, if the child wants to be a doctor or is interested in such things then its not so bad,

but if the child is prone to nightmares then its a very stupid idea,

It is up to the parent to make the right decision in each case but I dont see any harm in teaching children to a good standard from a young age.

That is presuming that was the point of showing athe child the programme.

How can a child of 5 know they want to be a doctor when they grow up? I didn't know what I wanted to be even when I was grown up!!

I wouldn't let my 5 y.o. watch it but if you have a kid that is fascinated by such things then I suppose it would be OK... as long as you don't mind them growing up into a Dr Gunther von Hagens!!:o

Originally posted by jonsastar
I think it depends on the child, if the child wants to be a doctor or is interested in such things then its not so bad,

but if the child is prone to nightmares then its a very stupid idea,

It is up to the parent to make the right decision in each case but I dont see any harm in teaching children to a good standard from a young age.

That is presuming that was the point of showing athe child the programme.

As I said the child wasn't forced to watch the program, but did so at her own wish. As the father is involved with medicine he thought it would be acceptable under supervision.

I do think that five is young for stuff like this, but I had a fairly poor education and my parents showed no interest in my education whatsoever, but strangely enough they still wanted me to be a doctor or dentist.

If you want to be succesfull in todays world you have to start learning young, and at the age of five then its your parents perogitive to help you make the right decisions until you can make your own.

So in this case I would say that the intentions are good and there for its not a bad thing.

Originally posted by jonsastar
doh,

I would say yes if the child wanted too.

Ultimately we all look the same on the inside, and it's not a action or horror film that glorifies death and violence in any way. Medievel & renaissance painters did it too, so it's not even a new idea, really.

Originally posted by Agent Dan
I would say yes if the child wanted too.

Ultimately we all look the same on the inside, and it's not a action or horror film that glorifies death and violence in any way. Medievel & renaissance painters did it too, so it's not even a new idea, really.

Yeah, but if your 5 y.o. found a porno hidden at the back of the cupboard and wanted to watch it would that be ok?

Originally posted by Zamo
Yeah, but if your 5 y.o. found a porno hidden at the back of the cupboard and wanted to watch it would that be ok?

No. Nudity I would have no problem with - porn definitely not. However porn is a completely different from the matter we were discussing...

Originally posted by Zamo
Yeah, but if your 5 y.o. found a porno hidden at the back of the cupboard and wanted to watch it would that be ok?

I would also say, that is a completely different matter. Porn is intended for adult sexual stimulation. It is not really educational. The human body and how it works should not be taboo.

Originally posted by Agent Dan
No. Nudity I would have no problem with - porn definitely not. However porn is a completely different from the matter we were discussing...

Is it different?

If my 5 y.o. asked "how was I made?" then I'd agree that sticking on 'Debbie does Dallas' would be an inappropriate way to answer her. Equally, if she asked "how do we breath?" then I'd also think it was inappropriate to stick on 'Anatomy for Beginners' so she could see a dead man cut open, his lungs pulled out and inflated.

I think it's a question of getting the right balance/level. What that is is a matter of opinion! We can but do our best... it's a tricky business parenting!

Originally posted by Andy78
I would also say, that is a completely different matter. Porn is intended for adult sexual stimulation. It is not really educational. The human body and how it works should not be taboo.

I would disagree that porn is not educational... I've learnt one or two useful tricks!

I think most people agree that showing a 5 y.o. a film of people having sex in order to answer the question "how was I made?" would be inappropriate... it's a little more information than a 5 y.o. really needs. I think the same goes for showing them an autopsy to answer a question about how the body works.

How the body works should be no more a "taboo" subject than sex. It's about geting the right level for your audience.

I think i would be more worried about my child staying up that late than watching it. although i dont have children. i dont think there is anything wrong in a child watching it (a child up to 16). i voted yes but i think if it was my own child i might buy them a childs anatomy book as most children wouldn't understand the medical terminology of that programme anyway. i turned down the chance to watch a post mortum because of a recent death in the family but my fellow students found it most informative.

Originally posted by Andy78
I would also say, that is a completely different matter. Porn is intended for adult sexual stimulation. It is not really educational. The human body and how it works should not be taboo.

As I said earlier, I really don't think this program was educational. As I've discussed on another thread, it was in no way reflective of what goes on in a real anatomy teaching dissection, as the 'autopsy' he did a while ago was nothing like a real post-mortem.

I would agree that post-mortems are very interesting and educational if you are into that sort of thing, but they are specifically done to be educational, and not as a form of entertainment like this television program. Many of the procedures he carried out really were for 'shock' value and I think it was pretty distasteful.

Originally posted by Twiglet
As I said earlier, I really don't think this program was educational. As I've discussed on another thread, it was in no way reflective of what goes on in a real anatomy teaching dissection, as the 'autopsy' he did a while ago was nothing like a real post-mortem.

I would agree that post-mortems are very interesting and educational if you are into that sort of thing, but they are specifically done to be educational, and not as a form of entertainment like this television program. Many of the procedures he carried out really were for 'shock' value and I think it was pretty distasteful.


As I said eralier in the thread, I didn't approve of the guys autopsy for exactly those reasons.

I have a 5 year old daughter - she did not watch the program because she had been in bed for at least 2 hours prior to the program being shown.

However, my personal view is that if my daughter was perhaps a year or two older then perhaps I would not have objected to her watching the show. But I think at 5 years old, a child is a little too young to understand what precisely is happening - its difficult enough trying to explain about death, where they go what happens to their body etc. I think the program would have just more confusion in fact frustration (on the childs part) because however much you attempt to explain, the child will find it extremely difficult to understand.

PS I agree with earlier comments regarding the the purpose of the show, in particular the 'shock' tactics. I work in a legal/medically field and the show was not an example of an everyday postmortem.

I don't hide the real world from my daughter - for example, all the media footage of the Tsunami disaster - My daughter watched the footage on news programs and I did not attempt to distract her attention from the TV - instead I tried to explain what happened and why the TV was showing recently deceased people.

Perhaps this is why children nowadays display a greater sense of maturity and understanding, because of what the media are now permitted to show on TV.

When I was a child I loved science books. My Dad had lots of 'Time - Life' type books & a BIG set of encyclopaedia. They all had the old 'Grays Anatomy' type illustrations in.

When I occasionally stayed at my older sister's house I'd look through her partner's Medical Ref books (as he was studying medicine); fascinated but never shocked or upset.

Now, I have a 16 year career in nursing behind me......

I wonder what has influenced & inspired me?

These programms are educational to people who have absolutely no prior knowledge or concept of anatomy - ie children.

I hope the series inspires many future doctors & nurses. :thumbsup:

I hope these types of programmes continue to inspire future Doctors and Nurses and I fully support them and their educational purpose, I just dont feel it is suitable for a child of 5 to be watching.

Most children aged 5 are always talking about what they want to be when they are older, my son for instance told me once that he wants to be an actor then he changed his mind and told me he now wants to fly areoplanes, my point is is that children at this age have no concept at all of what they want to be from one minute to the next they are just taken in by the wonder of it all.

Its fantastic to support your child and to encourage them but I think allowing a child as young as 5 to watch that program is too extreme, a child shouldnt be exposed to that even if they scream cry and beg, they really do not know what is good for them and shouldnt be allowed that kind of freedom.

As a parent I feel compelled to protect my child from these programes, my son knows what he is allowed to watch on the TV and knows what he cant watch, my child is 6 years old and will hide in his bedroom from scenes in Spiderman with the Green Goblin in and when those scenes have finished he will come back downstairs to finish off watching it.

You wouldnt allow a child of 5 to watch an 18 cert film so to me its the same principal where that documentry is concerned, but at the end of the day its the parents call and if a parent feels that their child of 5 has the maturity to handle that kind of graphic material then so be it, but for me its definetly a no no.

Jo

I don't have a problem with it, people tend to only get upset about it because they've had it drilled into them from an early age that it's wrong/disgusting. In reality there is nothing disgusting about it - why teach a child that it is to then re-teach them as teenagers that it's normal?

As for people saying it doesn't teach much to people with any anatomical knowledge - why would it? The program was called Anatomy for Beginners after all.