A very good friend of mine who is British by birth met a young lady in South Africa....They got married and had a cild.....They have been married now for eight years and have a daughter of 7 years old.

He recently came home as part of the South African Firefighters team and decided to remain here.
He has a good job etc'....and after a while sent the money for his wife and child to come over.

On arrival at Manchester Airport he was informed that his wife and child..( British by Decent) had to return to S.A. and get the appropriate visas.....then return to the UK.

All well and good...however! a child British by decent is or should have the right of abode in the UK.......His wife has been told that she is not entitled to stay with her husband and that the child is also subject to the same rules.....

Surely!,,... British by Decent should be a right for a British National?
And to split a husband and wife/child is a human rights issue!

I do not see these laws practiced with the populations that are entering the UK and are not even British!

Is it that being British is now a crime...as to live here with your children and wife born in a different country is getting harder and harder....
But if you are an ethnic minority....there are no questions asked and everything is passed and signed, sealed!

i will be helping these people to be allowed to stay here!! they are not a drain on the economy and claim nothing!
The father as stated is British......but his daughter and wife are being told to get back out of the country....get a visa first then try get back in..

Has it come to pass in this country that an Englishman and his family are worth less than immigrants?????

She'll easily get a visa, only takes a week or so from the British Embassy in SA.

Where they went wrong was not applying BEFORE they came. TPTB don't like that. :rolleyes:

Gosh, this one is so full of spin that it's making me dizzy.

I wouldn't have a problem with them coming here, but they should have applied for the right visas and it would save everyone alot of hassle. There are immigration laws there for a reason you know, I thought you would appreciate the fact that not anyone can just stroll into this country, regardless of skin colour.

Also, they might not be costing the state anything, but surely they will want to use the health service, possibly the police etc... yet they have paid all their tax in another country, so they are getting a good deal there... but then again, we are a soft touch to these immigrants... immigrants... thousands of them... don't shoot till you see the whites of their eyes!

I'm be particularly suspicious of people coming from South Africa, as they are not know for their love of the fellow man. :D

Originally posted by Delboy3
Has it come to pass in this country that an Englishman and his family are worth less than immigrants?????

Eh? Your story suggests that they are immigrants, aren't they? Immigrants without the correct paperwork.

Stick 'em in a detention camp, I say :D

Originally posted by Snook
Gosh, this one is so full of spin that it's making me dizzy.

I wouldn't have a problem with them coming here, but they should have applied for the right visas and it would save everyone alot of hassle. There are immigration laws there for a reason you know, I thought you would appreciate the fact that not anyone can just stroll into this country, regardless of skin colour.

Also, they might not be costing the state anything, but surely they will want to use the health service, possible the police etc... yet they have paid all their tax in another country, so they are getting a good deal there... but then again, we are a soft touch to these immigrants... thousands of them... don't shoot till you see the whites of their eyes!

I'm be particularly suspicious of people coming from South Africa, as they are not know for their love of the fellow man. :D Ok Snook......British By Decent......Does it mean anything??? why need a visa???
I went through this same charade......my children were all born over seas........Take another perspective.....All aour armed forces are stationed in other countries.......if they marry!!! have children.........Is this the way to treat them???

A friend of mine did the same thing, but he got the visas before they travelled Delboy.

As for the South African woman in question, she's a real gem and will help anyone.

Don't worry Delboy, once they get their paperwork sorted out, they'll be here in a flash.

Snook! I am ex military!!

Originally posted by MovingOn
A friend of mine did the same thing, but he got the visas before they travelled Delboy.

As for the South African woman in question, she's a real gem and will help anyone.

Don't worry Delboy, once they get their paperwork sorted out, they'll be here in a flash.
I take it you know who I am talking about then......Ty.......

As stated in the first post, this is a matter which seems to have breached the Human Rights Act. However, this free movement of peoples allowing for partners and descendants into he country is only within the EU. Hope everything will get sorted out smoothly.

Nope, I don't live in Sheffield area YET...

But, a friend of mine went to South Africa on a mission, and met this woman while out there. He was impressed by her Christian attitude and fell in love. Simple really.

They overcame a lot of obstacles to be together, but they are made for each other and are a wonderful couple.

Ek Is Jammer...ek kanie verstaan hoekom jy engles is! maar jou kinders is subject to being classed as foreign

Originally posted by Delboy3
Ok Snook......British By Decent......Does it mean anything??? why need a visa???
I went through this same charade......my children were all born over seas........Take another perspective.....All aour armed forces are stationed in other countries.......if they marry!!! have children.........Is this the way to treat them???

Are you saying it works the same way for armed forces? I didn't think it did?

British 'by decent'... what is it supposed to mean? It will be a lot easier to get citizenship, thats for sure, but to suggest that anyone who is married to someone that has citizenship, and any children of theirs that have been born in other countries, should be able to come and live here without a visa really opens things up to abuse.

Personally, I'm not bothered, but I know certain political parties would be against this!

Surely being part of the commonwealth......is another point......S.a. is in the commonwealth.....surely that out weighs..the EU situation!

Originally posted by Snook
Are you saying it works the same way for armed forces? I didn't think it did?

British 'by decent'... what is it supposed to mean? It will be a lot easier to get citizenship, thats for sure, but to suggest that anyone who is married to someone that has citizenship, and any children of theirs that have been born in other countries, should be able to come and live here without a visa really opens things up to abuse.

Personally, I'm not bothered, but I know certain political parties would be against this!
Snook ...I agree with you in some instances...I am one that has been accused etc...as being hard/ racist....you name it...
But I do see the rights of an Englishman.........To marry a foreigner...have children but be subjected to proving marriage of convienience, having ones children removed out of the country.......Putting things into perspective.......I don't see this rule applying for none British citizens.....in fact...I myself years ago told the home office to DEport me.....as an englishman....as they treated my wife and children like scum!.....I was married for 20 years before they said my marriage was not for convienience.......Want proof...I have it.......My file is 1 foot thick!

At the risk of asking a very stupid question which passport did they try to enter the country on ? Thats me assuming they have a British or South African passport :confused:

Originally posted by Greenback
Eh? Your story suggests that they are immigrants, aren't they? Immigrants without the correct paperwork.

Stick 'em in a detention camp, I say :D
How can you be an immigrant..if you are british by descent???

explain?

Originally posted by MovingOn
A friend of mine did the same thing, but he got the visas before they travelled Delboy.

As for the South African woman in question, she's a real gem and will help anyone.

Don't worry Delboy, once they get their paperwork sorted out, they'll be here in a flash.
TY M8...they are good christians........and have the right values and manners....unlike some here!

I will be contacting the home office and 10 downing street regarding the matter

Originally posted by Deejay
At the risk of asking a very stupid question which passport did they try to enter the country on ? Thats me assuming they have a British or South African passport :confused:
OK....He being British entered with his Brit passport.....THe child and mother came on a S.A. Passport..
I did the same with my wife and children......

Well if they are entering on SA Passports then rightly so without proper documentation they should be refused entry.

I believe any nationality now requires a visa if you are coming to the uk to stay for 6 months or more whether it be working or visiting.

I know this is not the nicest situation to be in but if I was the immigration officer I would have also refused entry. People should check what kind of documentation they need before just turning up.

Sorry, I don't see this as anyones fault but their own.

Dee

Originally posted by Delboy3
How can you be an immigrant..if you are british by descent???

explain?

im·mi·grant __ (_P_)__Pronunciation Key__(m-grnt)
n.

1. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.

(Sorry about the last post by the way, didn't mean to offend - hope everything's sorted now). :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Deejay
Well if they are entering on SA Passports then rightly so without proper documentation they should be refused entry.

I believe any nationality now requires a visa if you are coming to the uk to stay for 6 months or more whether it be working or visiting.

I know this is not the nicest situation to be in but if I was the immigration officer I would have also refused entry. People should check what kind of documentation they need before just turning up.

Sorry, I don't see this as anyones fault but their own.

Dee
Deejay, I agree with some of your sentiments but bearing in mind that we are allowing people to enter without birthcertificates or any documentation........It seems a little trivial to pick on Nationals that are trying to return home with their families....irrespective of their families nationality

Originally posted by Greenback
im·mi·grant __ (_P_)__Pronunciation Key__(m-grnt)
n.

1. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.

(Sorry about the last post by the way, didn't mean to offend - hope everything's sorted now). :thumbsup:
NP greenback......It just gets my back up a little when i see fellow brits being treated as second class citizens......I myself went through all this and finally got it sorted after several years and a lot of money!

my point here is that if you yourself went overseas and married someone, had a child, then decided to come home...... you would be subjected to stress etc......as the prospects of your wife and child being sent back to where they were born....is not a nice thing to go through...and I have personal experience of it..

Originally posted by Delboy3
Deejay, I agree with some of your sentiments but bearing in mind that we are allowing people to enter without birthcertificates or any documentation........It seems a little trivial to pick on Nationals that are trying to return home with their families....irrespective of their families nationality

Im not saying people are entering here without documentation but I would imagine that is normally immigrants seeking Asylum, you wouldn't be able to enter as a worker or visitor without nothing at all. If we are then that is down to real slack immigration officials!

I appreciate its frustrating but at the end of the day, the officials in this instance are just doing their job. No documentation is a risk, one that many are not prepared to take.

Hope it eventually gets sorted mate :)

Originally posted by Deejay
Im not saying people are entering here without documentation but I would imagine that is normally immigrants seeking Asylum, you wouldn't be able to enter as a worker or visitor without nothing at all. If we are then that is down to real slack immigration officials!

I appreciate its frustrating but at the end of the day, the officials in this instance are just doing their job. No documentation is a risk, one that many are not prepared to take.

Hope it eventually gets sorted mate :)
TY M8....it will be Tomorrow....or....lmfao.....See me in the Star....Ha Ha Ha............i agree we need the immigration....As I have said in other posts..An Austrailian way of doing it is great! But......If you are British to start with!!! Then the rules should apply as such...I remember seeing that a Indian woman get caught getting married 8 times for convienience....i wouldnt mind but in this instance she wasnt born here yet she was allowed to get these men into the country with british citizen ship...........in my story...it is a British person trying to get his child and wife to remain here!.....Smacks of double standards here!

No point getting upset, it's a simple procedure, and we all (children born to UK national plus other national outside UK) had to do it. You pay, you get your right to abode sticker in your passport...and visiting or coming to live, they can't kick you out of the country. Then you apply for your UK passport. You surely can't be surprised that there's some bureaucracy involved!:rolleyes:

I'm surprised your friend didn't check it out first - seems blatantly obvious you would have to fill out some paperwork and hand over some money. Of course they were sent back - but only to do it all properly and above board.

Not to worry, it get easier after that.

Originally posted by cosywolf
No point getting upset, it's a simple procedure, and we all (children born to UK national plus other national outside UK) had to do it. You pay, you get your right to abode sticker in your passport...and visiting or coming to live, they can't kick you out of the country. Then you apply for your UK passport. You surely can't be surprised that there's some bureaucracy involved!:rolleyes:

I'm surprised your friend didn't check it out first - seems blatantly obvious you would have to fill out some paperwork and hand over some money. Of course they were sent back - but only to do it all properly and above board.

Not to worry, it get easier after that.
He did look at the legal aspects......The visa bull for a rit takes p to 2 years......Could you live without seeing your wife and child for this period???
It is against basic human rights to part a family or to stop them from seeing each other through monetary gain!....
to pay for the visa is easy....to wait the +- 2 years to obtain it.....is not!!!

Looks like the goverment will be trying to limit those who bring in their famiyls from overseas.

Originally posted by royjames
Looks like the goverment will be trying to limit those who bring in their famiyls from overseas.
Roy!...I have the same problem with my niece......She arrives in March..it has cost 5000.00 pounds so far to try and get things done legal........She is British by Descent.......her husband is From S.A.

Her children.... my great nephews/ my brothers grandchildren....are subjected to this bull.

Hey! when I arrived back in the UK......They sent a letter to my Brother in S.A. asking if he would put me up if I went back.....!!!!

They don't want us back....!!! Done your job ...**** off!!

Some points come to mind with regard to the first post.

As airlines have strict rules to follow, I assume that the wife and child did actually have some sort of visa otherwise they would not have been carried.
I am guessing that this was probably a visitors visa? and then upon their arrival they were questioned and the intention to go and stay with husband was apparent.

This in itself will have compounded their problems. They now have a mark against their record as having been refused entry after having applied for the wrong visa.

It is a tragedy when true love and children become involved but there are some very basic and very public rules out there. Had the correct advice been obtained, correct documentation been prepared and applications and interviews carried out (preferably with the husband in SA at the time) they would probably be here as we write.

Originally posted by cgksheff
Some points come to mind with regard to the first post.

As airlines have strict rules to follow, I assume that the wife and child did actually have some sort of visa otherwise they would not have been carried.
I am guessing that this was probably a visitors visa? and then upon their arrival they were questioned and the intention to go and stay with husband was apparent.

This in itself will have compounded their problems. They now have a mark against their record as having been refused entry after having applied for the wrong visa.

It is a tragedy when true love and children become involved but there are some very basic and very public rules out there. Had the correct advice been obtained, correct documentation been prepared and applications and interviews carried out (preferably with the husband in SA at the time) they would probably be here as we write.
I agree with you...but!!! here it comes........Why so many hassles when it comes to a brit national??? If they were from Nigeria.......they would be afforded all comforts etc...this I know from experience.......What ****** me off is that we have one rule for one and another for the others......

Originally posted by cgksheff
Some points come to mind with regard to the first post.

As airlines have strict rules to follow, I assume that the wife and child did actually have some sort of visa otherwise they would not have been carried.
I am guessing that this was probably a visitors visa? and then upon their arrival they were questioned and the intention to go and stay with husband was apparent.

This in itself will have compounded their problems. They now have a mark against their record as having been refused entry after having applied for the wrong visa.

It is a tragedy when true love and children become involved but there are some very basic and very public rules out there. Had the correct advice been obtained, correct documentation been prepared and applications and interviews carried out (preferably with the husband in SA at the time) they would probably be here as we write.
I agree with you...but!!! here it comes........Why so many hassles when it comes to a brit national??? If they were from Nigeria.......they would be afforded all comforts etc...this I know from experience.......What ****** me off is that we have one rule for one and another for the others......

According to this, she and their son should have access to the UK:

HERE (http://www.workpermit.com/uk/fiance.htm) .

As for visitors, Each and every country offers different treatment to nationals depending on their country of origin. It's due to the relation between both countries, and political climate.

Immigration if not already obvious is a political atom bomb in this country and at times for good reason.

Now all the racist idiots can just go play elsewhere, if that is your only argument then im sorry. I personally have experienced immigration in both it's forms and it is painfully obvious that our immigration policy is in shambles and needs major reform.

I was with an american girl and she came to the uk and was refused entry WITH visa on the grounds she had no means of support?, me, my family had the entire thing planned out on paper, they didnt even look in the part of the bag containing all the documents to prove she could be kept without recourse to public fund. In short she was fast tracked out of here for what i feel was a numbers game.

Now on the flipside i have to stand up for their paranoid stance, my aunt ws with a man of jamaican decent and this man came to the uk, he was too friendly, the kind of people that are just too eager to please but the way he manipulated my aunt, faked his belief in her religion, married, then abused my mother, gran and aunt verbally and phsyically made me livid. This got to the point of voice recordings, solicitors, restraining orders. Now i am quite versed in immigration policy and after a period of time they needed to change their application to apply for indefinite leave to remain, then after a few more years apply for naturalization. He was kicked out of the house and soon after my aunt died.

Now as i see it this person has no links to this country, believe me he has no means of self support and no reason to be allowed to stay in this country. He is still here a few years on and i doubt will ever be deported. I am not racist toward anyone and i understand that this is a case amongst many and many may have good intentions but this is an example of how in a single family one person was refused entry on grounds that were never even fully investigated by immigration officials and a man who had the police to the house on multiple occasions, was a nuisance to the public and i feel a danger to the family and is living happily on our benefits system, it really scares me to think who else they allow to stay without need.

Sorry for the long post, just close to my heart this one.