It only seems the past few years that English people are reffered to as Brits/British, why is that ?

If someone ever asked me if I was British i would always say no, i'm English.

As part of the European superstate I guess we will become europeans.

Although I will always consider my self an English man.

I might immigrate to France one day, buy a nice house in the country and enjoy life.

I prefer to be called English rather than British.
I often wonder if the political attitude in the 70s against the openly racist elements, made English a bit of a dirty word for a decade or so. Maybe it was much further back than that. I feel that many English people are now preferring to be back to English than British again.

I have recently read an interesting book about the origins of the English, written by Jeremy Paxman. And then I read a book about the origins of the English Language by David Crystal. Turns out England and the English originate from the term Angles, which were people from Denmark, who had tried to settle in lots of places before coming over to the British Isles.
And before that the area which is now England had just a smattering of Celtic speaking people, some of who were driven out to Wales and Ireland and some taken into the new population.

All this was happening only 1500 years ago.

So the Welsh and Irish are the true English

Originally posted by poppins
It only seems the past few years that English people are reffered to as Brits/British, why is that ?

If someone ever asked me if I was British i would always say no, i'm English.
'British/Great Britain - It covers england, Scotland, wales and northern (whether you like it or not, but thats another thread) Ireland. It's a blanket term For the UK.
Surely as an ex pat you know this:confused:

Originally posted by Draggletail
'British/Great Britain - It covers england, Scotland, wales and northern (whether you like it or not, but thats another thread) Ireland. It's a blanket term For the UK.
Surely as an ex pat you know this:confused:

You would NEVER hear a Welshman saying he was British, he would always be Welsh and the same for the Scots too.

Me I'm English.

does it matter ?

when im on holiday, i find myself saying im British.

But when back at home... english all the way!!

Weird i suppose.

Originally posted by Mo
You would NEVER hear a Welshman saying he was British, he would always be Welsh and the same for the Scots too.

Me I'm English.
I just meant that is how the media that poppins mentions must be using the term 'brits' - to cover the whole UK:)

Originally posted by Draggletail
'British/Great Britain - It covers england, Scotland, wales and northern (whether you like it or not, but thats another thread) Ireland. It's a blanket term For the UK.
Surely as an ex pat you know this:confused:
Are you sure about that ?

I thought, NI is part of the UK...

...indeed the whole island of Ireland (Eire and NI) are part of the British Isles (geographicaly), but...

...Great Britain is just England, Scotland and Wales.

IIRC.

Better get the history books out now to check. ;)

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Are you sure about that ?

I thought, NI is part of the UK...

...indeed the whole island of Ireland (Eire and NI) are part of the British Isles (geographicaly), but...

...Great Britain is just England, Scotland and Wales.

IIRC.

Better get the history books out now to check. ;)

Not Ireland ? would be interesting to know why, i always thought it was, but didn't Scotland go independent a few years ago ? i remember something about Sean Connery doing something dressed in a kilt, what was all that fuss about ?

I always say I'm from Yorkshire, not England or Britain.

Originally posted by Gazza
does it matter ? of course it matters, im a yorkshire man and proud of it, people should be proud of their roots and im really proud of bieng from sheffield,south yorkshire

Originally posted by poppins
Not Ireland ? would be interesting to know why, i always thought it was, but didn't Scotland go independent a few years ago ? i remember something about Sean Connery doing something dressed in a kilt, what was all that fuss about ?
Again IIRC...

...Great Britain was formed by the combining of the English/Welsh crown and the Scottish crown...

...sometime later, Ireland was "included" by the Act of Union, and the United Kingdom was formed...

...even later, Eire "opted out" and so...

the UK was left as England + Wales + Scotland + NI, and

GB is still England + Wales + Scotland, as it always was.

The British Isles is a geographical rather than political term, and describes the whole bunch of islands (including the isle of Man, but that's a whole other story).

I really must check all this before I post any more. :)

Originally posted by depoix
of course it matters, im a yorkshire man and proud of it, people should be proud of their roots and im really proud of bieng from sheffield,south yorkshire
Well I'm from the West Riding, but of course, that depends on *when* you were born as well as *where*.

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Again IIRC...

...Great Britain was formed by the combining of the English/Welsh crown and the Scottish crown...

...sometime later, Ireland was "included" by the Act of Union, and the United Kingdom was formed...

...even later, Eire "opted out" and so...

the UK was left as England + Wales + Scotland + NI, and

GB is still England + Wales + Scotland, as it always was.

The British Isles is a geographical rather than political term, and describes the whole bunch of islands (including the isle of Man, but that's a whole other story).

I really must check all this before I post any more. :)

So what Connery did meant nothing realy, is that right ? he got all dressed up for nothing i guess !

I refer to myself as earthling when asked

Originally posted by miniminch
I refer to myself as earthling when asked

Funny, I could think of a much more applicable term for you.

Originally posted by t020
Funny, I could think of a much more applicable term for you.

I think a PM here would have been appropriate unless you actually do think you are Oscar Wilde.

I am English through and through born in ENGLAND:thumbsup:

This causes a lot of confusion all around the world. Basically, Great Britain is made up just of England, Scotland and Wales.

When Northern Ireland was added, our full title became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, or the UK for short.

I'm English and don't feel at all British... I hope that when the BNP get into power they will respect my heritage and get rid of all the Scottish and Welsh migrant workers who come here taking our jobs and women and saying how much they hate the English!!!! :rant:

I suppose my kids are true Brits, - they were born in England but I'm half English half Scots and my wife's father was Irish and her mother Welsh. :suspect:

Well I definitely consider myself to be English.

I haven't given it that much thought, what with being born in Sheffield, speaking English as my first language etc.

I would consider my nationality to be British and my ethnic background to be Arabic.

I would not really think of myself as being English, as IMO that would refer to nationality of parentage rather than place of birth.

English definately - wouldn't want to be roped in with those Scottish and Welsh types! :P :hihi:

I would not really think of myself as being English, as IMO that would refer to nationality of parentage rather than place of birth.
I would disagree. Anyone from around the world can become a UK Citizen, but only by being born in England can you become English.

BTW. Great Britain refers to the largest island in the British Isles, so includes most of England, Scotland and Wales (but not Isle of Wight, Anglesey, Shetlands and others).

Originally posted by PerlOfWisdom
BTW. Great Britain refers to the largest island in the British Isles, so includes most of England, Scotland and Wales (but not Isle of Wight, Anglesey, Shetlands and others).
Erm, no...

..."Britain" refers to the largest island in the British Isles.

Great Britain is a political concept, and would include the above.

Political:
England, Scotland, Wales, GB, UK, NI, Eire, Yorkshire, etc etc

Geographical:
Ireland, Britain, British Isles.

Originally posted by t020
Funny, I could think of a much more applicable term for you.

You really are a nasty piece of work - are you incapable of saying anything nice?
Or do you get a lot of pleasure from trying to spread a little misery?

Getting onto the topic:

- ENGLAND is ONE of the nations that makes up Britain;
- BRITAIN consists of England, Scotland and Wales;
- the UK consists of the above plus Northern Ireland;
- the BRITISH ISLES consists of all of the above, plus the Republic of Ireland.

To be British, therefore, is not synonymous with being English - if you happen to be English, then you are also British, but not vice versa.

As a Scot, this has been hammered into my brain from my earliest moments - it is a matter of extreme importance in Scotland (and probably Wales) NEVER to confuse England with Britain, and no self-respecting Scot would ever do so, on pain of ostracism!

The casual usage of the word 'England' where 'Britain' should have been used (certainly up until recent times) caused a great deal of anger and upset in Scotland, and stupid as it may sound, helped to fuel Scottish Nationalism. For example, in WW2 the constant references to England fighting Germany - as if no Scots or Welsh or Irish were even involved in the fighting!

This may sound petty to an Englishman (or woman) but Scots are hyper-sensitive about it.

There is a great deal of difference between England and Britain.

Sorry if that came over as a bit of a rant - it wasn't meant to!

StarSparkle

PS - I love English people - after all, I've chosen to live in England! :P

Originally posted by muddycoffee

And before that the area which is now England had just a smattering of Celtic speaking people, some of who were driven out to Wales and Ireland and some taken into the new population.
The whole of England was Celtic. The Brigantes were the regional power in this area. Although some tribes were pushed westwards, Wales was home to long established Celtic tribes
(Those in North Wales had actually migrated from south-east Scotland)
There was however a mass migration to Brittany, fleeing the Angles and Saxons who probably engaged in ethnic cleansing in eastern/southern England at the beginning. Once settled they were happy to just rule native populations in Devon, Cornwall, Cumbria and parts of central England after defeating them in battle
The Gaels of Ireland were nothing to do with mainland England. Some of these Gaels did settle in Western Scotland as Scots and ultimately became the ruling elite having displaced the Britons of Strathclyde and the Picts of north and eastern Scotland

Great Britain was coined for PR reasons after the Act of Union. It was to divert attention from the fact that the Westminster parliament had bribed Scots MPs to vote for Union, there was rioting in the streets up North and it was coined to spread a feeling on "inclusiveness" and disguise the English takeover!

Until quite recently (15-20 years ago) sports commentators would routinely describe English athletes as winning for England but Scots or Welsh athletes winning for Gt. Britain. The boot is on the other foot a bit now!

The English are English and should be proud of it, however "British" it has to be acknowledged is a very useful name to use in a multi-ethnic society

Interesting posting Nedd Ludd. Personally, I would describe myself as English. However, in genetic terms, how "English" are the English?

In terms of the Y chromosomes of English men, it is estimated that around 60 % belong in Haplogroup One. This means that , in paternal terms, their earliest ancestors were not the Germanic Angles, Saxons and Jutes or even the Danish and Norwegian Vikings, but rather the Celtic peoples [whom themselves are closely allied to the Basques in terms of genetic distance, and ultimately descend from the Hunters of the Paleolithic].

Around 40 % of English men [myself included] bear Y chromosomes in Haplogroup Two. This is recognised by those such as Professor Brian Sykes, as the marker for male descent from the Anglo-Saxons and Danish Vikings. The latter cannot, at this stage in genomics, be distinguished from the former, although Norwegian Viking descent can.

The majority of "Englishmen" [in genetic, not cultural terms] appear to descend from Celtic forefathers...

See http://alt-usage-english.org/english_british_uk_et_al.shtml.

Geographical terms:
British Isles - the archipelago off the northern coast of France.

Great Britain - the largest of the British Isles. The second largest is Ireland.

Political terms:
England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland - together make up the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Nortern Ireland).

Eire, The Republic of Ireland.

Man, The Isle of Man.

Jersey, one of the Channel Island states.
Gernsey, Aldernay & Sark, the other one of the Channel Island States.

When i recently sat my exam for a health and safety certificate the examinar said that i had to change where i had written English to British, i asked him why and he said you're not English you're British, English is just a language, is this correct??

Originally posted by leddi
When i recently sat my exam for a health and safety certificate the examinar said... ...is this correct??
No...

...it's spelt "examiner".

;)

Originally posted by leddi
When i recently sat my exam for a health and safety certificate the examinar said that i had to change where i had written English to British, i asked him why and he said you're not English you're British, English is just a language, is this correct??
Your examiner is entirely wrong.
English is an adjective describing things which come from England [Including the language] and [the people]

All other languages have a word meaning English, and In Spanish for instance if your a female English person you have a special feminised version of the word [Inglesa]. This I believe is consistant with Being recognised as being English.

ive never been able to spell so why don't you get lost and stop being so insultive, that has really upset me
not you MC i'm referring to FooFighter.

Originally posted by leddi
ive never been able to spell so why don't you get lost and stop being so insultive, that has really upset me
not you MC i'm referring to FooFighter.
LOL, thanks leddi, haven't spat coffee into the keyboard for ages...

...sorry, I didn't mean to be "insultive", hence the smilie at the end of my post...

...while we're on though, you really should've mentioned your problems with grammar, capitalisation and punctuation as well.

:P

Originally posted by foo_fighter
LOL, thanks leddi, haven't spat coffee into the keyboard for ages...

...sorry, I didn't mean to be "insultive", hence the smilie at the end of my post...

...while we're on though, you really should've mentioned your problems with grammar, capitalisation and punctuation as well.

:P

yoor rong to tek the mical so much foo - its not are folt we no jack ****e aboot grama, punctuashun and speelin. get off yorr literacy hi hors

Originally posted by Ned Ludd

Great Britain was coined for PR reasons after the Act of Union. It was to divert attention from the fact that the Westminster parliament had bribed Scots MPs to vote for Union, there was rioting in the streets up North and it was coined to spread a feeling on "inclusiveness" and disguise the English takeover!


Great Britain, although probably with variant spellings, was in usage well before the Act of Union. Essentially, it was used to differentiate between the island upon which we live and Little Britain which is today known as Brittany in France.
For a long time what is now South/Central England and North-West France were under a single rule and proably with a ruling language of something similar to French.

Originally posted by miniminch
yoor rong to tek the mical so much foo - its not are folt we no jack ****e aboot grama, punctuashun and speelin. get off yorr literacy hi hors
Your rite moodymunch, sorie four thee ofense corzed.

;)

I have two nationalities, one of them on paper beeing British.

I do call myself English though, NOT european (screw that!) even though my other nationality is from the continent, I'm both of them, not european, bugger that !

Don't you just hate forms that require 'nationality' anyway?
There's always a massive list of tick boxes but 'English' is never included.


"Englishman by birth, Yorkshireman by the grace of God"
- DK :thumbsup:

ENGLISH ...........!

when asked which country im from i always state england as i am english but you always get the ones who state ur british as it says on your passport united kingdom of great britain and northern ireland but if im filling forms in and says were you from ie usa ireland australia european i always put in other england

I've got bad news for all you rabid patriots out there. England is not really a country at all in the true sense of the word.

For want of a better description, England is simply a province within the United Kingdom. You can't get an "English" passport for example.

We somehow get away with it in the same way we always get away with things like this - good old chauvinism and patriotic bluster. It also helps our cause when Americans with almost no knowledge of geography think the entire British Isles is called "England".

Although we have a football team called England, we compete in the Olympics as Great Britain. There are many other examples of this.

I would consider my nationality to be British and my ethnic background to be Arabic.

If you were born in Sheffield then you are as English as me why would you not want to be English.
We all come from differing backgrounds, but lets be proud of where we are born.

I always say i am English And that i come from SHEFFIELD, South Yorkshire.
I am proud to belong in our fine city :bigsmile:

me too Happy chick.....

I always say I'm from sheffield, home of steel, hills and rivers.

I read somewhere that on average approximately 27% of every race do not genetically match up to the race they think they belong to.

As an example in other words there are Jewish people who are not descended from jewish ancestors and non jews that are.

There are white racists who may have mixed ancestry way back and so unless you have positive DNA matching tests you can never be sure.

If that doesn't put the whole question of race into doubt nothing will.

Happy Days

English \\\\\\\

English thru and thru!

(but half scottish!)

I think it depends on the situation! Im Scottish and if I was abroad on holiday and someones asked me, id say I was Scottish, purely to identify thats where im from. If I was filling an application form or had to describe my nationality, id be British. As we all are, passports are British passports, not Scottish, Welsh or English! I think its slightly bigoted when people refuse to admit they are British and refer to themselves constantly as English or Scottish or whatever, we are all the same nation.

The Americans have always called us “Brits” and even "Britishers". The full title for this country is:

The Untied Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I’m a Yorkshire man, then English, then British. HOME RULE FOR YORKSHIRE!

Originally posted by youngmcgill
.......... I think its slightly bigoted when people refuse to admit they are British and refer to themselves constantly as English or Scottish or whatever, we are all the same nation.

Interesting post from youngmcgil.

I don't think People "REFUSE TO ADMIT" they are British. If people want to think themselves as British first...fine. If people want to think themsevles English/Welsh/Ulstermen/Scots first, then that's ok too.

As for saying people are slighly bigoted....I think that is a bit to strong....and can see political correctness creeping in here.

Definately English.

I'm quite happy to let the Scots have Scotland, and the Welsh have Wales. They both have great views in the rear view mirrror ;)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stevie1957
[B]The Americans have always called us “Brits” and even "Britishers".


:confused: i always thought they called us limeys or am i thinking of something else anyway, true yorkshire man , then english, sometimes scottish,sometimes irish but never welsh

Originally posted by Tony
Definately English.

I'm quite happy to let the Scots have Scotland, and the Welsh have Wales. They both have great views in the rear view mirrror ;)

Your happy to let us have Scotland, er thanks very much but its not actually yours to allow us to have!

I think everyone is patriotic and certainly I think of myself as Scottish, but reality is we are all British, we all have the same Queen (and incidently id abolish the monarchy given the chance but thats a whole new set of videos!) we are all British and when we go international or fill in forms, were British!

The four parts of my family historically come from York, Derbyshire, Cornwall, and the west coast of Scotland.

I love all these areas of our country.

I was born in Yorkshire.

I am proud to be a Yorkshireman, English, British, and European.

Originally posted by Bruce_Shark
The four parts of my family historically come from York, Derbyshire, Cornwall, and the west coast of Scotland.

I love all these areas of our country.

I was born in Yorkshire.

I am proud to be a Yorkshireman, English, British, and European.

I would agree, im proud to be both Scottish and British!

Originally posted by fridgeman
[QUOTE]Originally posted by stevie1957
[B]The Americans have always called us “Brits” and even "Britishers".


:confused: i always thought they called us limeys or am i thinking of something else anyway, true yorkshire man , then english, sometimes scottish,sometimes irish but never welsh

Yes - Limeys is another name too, but for some reason Scots, Welsh or Ultstermen are never refered to as Limeys only the English.

Well I consider myself to be British, unless of course I’m watching the rugby, then I’m certainly 100% Welsh!…its not called The Six Nations for nothing!!

English then british.

Does it realy matter?,we all breathe the same air.

i get really confused with this at work, whats your nationality or ethnicity or culture - its all confusing! i had one guy put his nat as persian?!? i have much to learn

Originally posted by NatalieSheff
i had one guy put his nat as persian?!?
Was he a real cool cat? ;)

[Persian means iranian I beleive.

Originally posted by royjames
[Persian means iranian I beleive.
I know a lad who says he is Persian when asked about his nationality. I guess its a romantic way of distancing yourself from a country that is percieved as basic, brutal and a backer of terrorism.
But me ..English then British.

Originally posted by stevie1957
Yes - Limeys is another name too, but for some reason Scots, Welsh or Ultstermen are never refered to as Limeys only the English.

The word Limeys comes from the days when Lime was added to rum to stop sailors from getting scurvey on long sea voygers.

AS for British or English when my freind was going through american immigration she had put English as nationality, the Immigration officer gave her the form back and asked her to fill it in correctly, she did not understand what she had done wrong and asked him , He said in the most sarcastic manner i have ever heard, You madame are british not English and you live in the United Kingdom, After she had amended the form and gave it back to him, he said have a nice stay in the usa thats America to you or if you prefere United states of america.

English-surely only the Welsh call themselves British ;)

The theme of this forum seems to be:

"we should be proud of England/our roots/being English".

At the risk of causing outrage I'd like to point out that I'm English but have no romantic notions.

This is a land of out of bounds town centres/estates, there is little 'green and pleasant land' left and most people dress at best in bland foreign sports/GAP clothes and at worst in the foul chav style.

That leaves English culture, but what culture? Beer and football? And don't tell me about Shakespeare either, what percentage of the population have read any I wonder? There is history but again most people have only vague notions of this, usually rose tinted, most people would rather watch Big Brother than History of Britain.

Lets face it, national identity is like religion, an emotional security blanket that does not stand up to scrutiny when analysed unemotionally.

Originally posted by royjames
[Persian means iranian I beleive. dunno, apparently its what old people say?!? i think id like to be european, or maybe latino?? Can we chose?;)

i've always said I'm english, who invented the word britain anyway

Its Great Britain actually,and great it is.

was the word britain invented to encorporate all of our different types/colours/races/eth/nats? For example, if an african man comes to live here and has children born here, they are classed as british(not english) and african??
I suppose its like my gramps whos a yorkshireman but has spanish residency? is he spanglish?;)

I call myself British and get really puzzled when people call me English *shrugs*

Spanglish? what may I ask is that?:heyhey:

Originally posted by NatalieSheff
was the word britain invented to encorporate all of our different types/colours/races/eth/nats?
Natalie, a couple of millenia before that, the romans were calling people of these islands Britannicas, and it means something like silly little britains. I heard it in a lecture on the radio, but it was a long time ago...

Originally posted by muddycoffee
Natalie, a couple of millenia before that, the romans were calling people of these islands Britannicas, and it means something like silly little britains. I heard it in a lecture on the radio, but it was a long time ago...
You heard a lecture by Romans on the radio...

:wow:

...yeh, that would have been a long time ago.

I did read that right didn't I?

:confused:

;)

Originally posted by muddycoffee
Natalie, a couple of millenia before that, the romans were calling people of these islands Britannicas, and it means something like silly little britains. I heard it in a lecture on the radio, but it was a long time ago... i bet u listen to radio 2!!

Originally posted by NatalieSheff
i bet u listen to radio 2!!

nowt wrong with radio two , more listeners than radio one , terry wogan rules and he's irish (getaway!!) :P

have to admit i listen a bit too, esp when jonathan ross on:o

:D Mr Ross a very funny man , he's told quite a few very good tale about englishmen/women and various other nations.
a contender for the king of R2 :clap:
is he lispanian? :confused:

:| no offence intended to all lispanians

English or British? is the question. Neither. On any form that requires me to state my nationality, I always write "U K citizen". (Being a republican, I refuse to write "UK subject", although technically - because we have a sovereign monarch - that is what the queen believes us all to be).

My country of origin is but an accident of birth. I am therefore indifferent to where I was born. I am proud of the ideals that the land of my birth espouses - e.g., tolerance, justice, equality before the law, etc. But I can't say that I am proud to be English or British. I am appalled by the mentality of Little Englanders, who espouse a doctrine of racial purity, and fail to recognise the wider world in which we all now live. Who was it who said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundral? And some of the posts on this thread, English or British?, illustrate why I prefer to be described as a UK citizen.

Originally posted by redrobbo
English or British? is the question. Neither. On any form that requires me to state my nationality, I always write "U K citizen". (Being a republican, I refuse to write "UK subject", although technically - because we have a sovereign monarch - that is what the queen believes us all to be).

My country of origin is but an accident of birth. I am therefore indifferent to where I was born. I am proud of the ideals that the land of my birth espouses - e.g., tolerance, justice, equality before the law, etc. But I can't say that I am proud to be English or British. I am appalled by the mentality of Little Englanders, who espouse a doctrine of racial purity, and fail to recognise the wider world in which we all now live. Who was it who said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundral? And some of the posts on this thread, English or British?, illustrate why I prefer to be described as a UK citizen.

I am proud of being a Boro gal (Middlesbrough lass) but something I read recently that you'd posted suggested you weren't a fan of the place......can you please tell me why not???...I love Sheffield and my birth town of Middlesbrough and the UK as my country of origin!!

Just been reading a post about a UK football team in the Sports forum.

Someone states our nation is the UK. As in The United Kingdom of Great Britan and Northern Island.

But we are made of four different countries.

So what am I?

English, British or UKish?

Usually say I'm British.

So my question is

What is the legal status of our nation?

Are we a federation like the USA after all?

No our country is England.

Our kingdom is UK
Because our Queen and our government Reins and governs over the whole UK

The word Britain goes back to at least Roman times. I think it was a bit of an insult. They called us Britannicas.

You can be English or British. It depends wether you want to associate yourself with England alone or the whole of these islands.

I would rather describe myself as English but I'm not that bothered if someone describes me as a Brit.

We should all call ourselves British generally...which is the more politically correct term. I am actually British not having been born over here but in Gib.

I was once told that the media are keen to scream of a British victory even if a the welsh, irish or scots win on an international level but if they are defeated in anything on the same level....it will be their defeat not Britiains.

Moon

I'm English. England is a part of the UK, Europe and the world

I think it's funny how we got so tied up over labelling. I'm English, British and European; more importantly I'm me! :)

I'm English, British on application forms and me in reality...

At weekends Im...

:D

Originally posted by D2J
I'm English, British on application forms and me in reality...

At weekends Im...

:D

OOh, D2J, we're like posting twins tonight! ;)

Originally posted by Kristian
OOh, D2J, we're like posting twins tonight! ;)

Get me drunk first ;)

Quite funny actually as I usually post in Tandem with Dwaggle..

Have no idea about the rest of you but I am English.

Seem to remember this debate elsewhere.

Anyhow - I'm English - that's with a capital 'E'.

Dragon

I agree that I am English. Actually I am Yorkshire first, English, British then citizen of the world.

But what is the status of our nation? Are we a federation. What are we on the world stage?

Until we have a British football team I'll call myself English. :D

I'm English, British, European, Human...

I'm also a Yorkshireman... although admittedly of recent years I have been a 'Yorkshireman in Exile'...

Actually, come to think of it, Yorkshireman lumps me in with that lot from L**ds...

So cross that off,

I'm a Dee-Dah!!!

Yay - go Steelson.

If the world was run by dee-dahrers it would be a much nicer place.

Yay for Sheffield.

Still an Englishman though ;)

Dragon

If people ask what my nationality is I say British, as that is what it says on my passport. I've often found others define me as British when abroad.

If I was asked where I was from, I'd say England, but I get funny looks when I say that whilst in England. ;)

I think most nationalities know us as English, its the Americans that get confused.

Originally posted by Ally68
Until we have a British football team I'll call myself English. :D

Although I do think of myself as English, I don't follow footie, and do follow rugby league, where we compete as, you've guessed it, a Great Britain team. No idea why though.

According to a thread a while ago, I don't qualify yet for the flat cap and whippet (not for another 3 years) so other than that I'd have to say a Brummie/Black Country crossbreed, but since I haven't lived there for 17 years that's not really on either- I think I'll just say I'm me.

Originally posted by Moon Maiden
We should all call ourselves British generally...which is the more politically correct term. I am actually British not having been born over here but in Gib.


What's political correctness got to do with anything? I am English, full stop. Just as those born in Scotland are proud to be Scottish, and the Welsh openly admit to being Welsh. This whole idea that saying you are English is offensive annoys the heck out of me. It's not political correctness...it's lunacy! Am I allowed to break it down further and say I am a Scouser, or would that be deemed offensive to, say, Wiganers, Brummies, Cockneys, or Geordies? Total rubbish!

England is a country - I was born there - I am English!

Originally posted by micksheff
I think most nationalities know us as English, its the Americans that get confused.

But if you're Scottish, Welsh or Irish it's INCREDIBLY annoying to be referred to as English. Internationally, people who were born in the UK really should be referred to as British, as British is the official description for passport purposes and the like.

The Americans are actually correct in this instance! :o :P

Being Scottish or English, etc is your Nationality.

I'm sure we've had this debate before?

StarSparkle

Originally posted by StarSparkle
I'm sure we've had this debate before?

You're quite correct SS! :)

Mod: Threads Merged.

Originally posted by Kristian
You're quite correct SS! :)

Mod: Threads Merged.


Cheers, Kristian! :thumbsup:

Can I just say at this point - what's with the SS moniker, fellow Forummers? My nickname is Sparkle! :D ;) :) :thumbsup:

I admit the idea of leather and jackboots is quite appealing, but......

Sparkle :cool:

Nay then, when tha comes from Sheffield, we are Yorkshire first and foremost.Last time I went to the States, they asked me where I came from.When I said Sheffield, they said where is that then ?I said its in between Scotland and London.That was the only two places they knew.Mind you they couldnt understand my accent in any case !:thumbsup:

"Being Scottish or English, etc is your Nationality."
quoted from StarSparkle.

Britain is a nation.

England is a country and not a nation.
We don't have English passports or an English parliament.

Does anyone know if we have an English national anthem? Or an English national dress? I would think not as we are not a nation? IMO

Originally posted by Zenmaster
"Being Scottish or English, etc is your Nationality."
quoted from StarSparkle.

Britain is a nation.


Sorry, but you're wrong. It's a (United) Kingdom, which is different.

Britain is a political-construct of a country, consisting of the Scottish, English and Welsh nations. The Welsh nation was defeated and effectively assimilated by England many centuries ago; the Scottish nation-state and the English nation-state were effectively amalgamated - firstly under the rulership of King James I (VI), and then were more tightly joined by the Act of Union, which politically united the two nations.

StarSparkle

Thanks for pointing that out StarSparkle.

Now I'm confused?!

Originally posted by Zenmaster
Thanks for pointing that out StarSparkle.

Now I'm confused?!

It IS very confusing!

StarSparkle :)

Hardly matters. You have the scottish, the welsh, the irish and the English.

I'm not Scottish, Irish or Welsh.

I am English and proud of it. If ya don't like it then lump it.

Dragon

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Abdul
I haven't given it that much thought, what with being born in Sheffield, speaking English as my first language etc.

I would consider my nationality to be British and my ethnic background to be Arabic.

I would not really think of myself as being English, as IMO that would refer to nationality of parentage rather than place of birth. [/QUOTE

hi abdul, i am one of six from irish immigrants - i like to think i am irish first because of this- am i right?:confused:

Originally posted by StarSparkle
It IS very confusing!

StarSparkle :)

This is what I'm asking!!

What is our international status as a nation?

Are we countries, a nation or a federation or something different?

Arrgh

With 18, 000 members we must have a good lawyer:D

I dont know about anyone else out there but I am sick of getting forms to fill in that ask my nationality and list several options, Irish is there as is Gypsy, Bengali, Pakistani, Chinese, British but mine isnt there, I am ENGLISH born in ENGLAND. You can say if need be that you come from the British Isles but I come from ENGLAND and I am proud of the fact and I am not British and as for being a BRIT that is a terrible word it sounds like a large spot on your backside.

Last time I checked England was a part of Britain and has been for quite a while. I suggest you set up your own seperate country and call it England. Im sure there are a few islands for sale on ebay.

Well, I'm Scottish, and that doesn't turn up as a choice you can tick on most official forms either. But then I've never had any trouble regarding myself as both Scottish AND British.

StarSparkle

Last time I checked England was a part of Britain and has been for quite a while. I suggest you set up your own seperate country and call it England. Im sure there are a few islands for sale on ebay.


You wouldn't find many Scottish or Welsh people calling themselves British before Scottish/Welsh. We have an England football team, an England cricket team, etc etc. I am English first, British second. And no i'm not a bigot, i am proud of where i come from, unlike the increasing number of people who seem to be determined that we lose our sense of national identity altogether.

All the places you listed (apart from gypsy...) are countries, that's how it works you see. China, France, Pakistan, Britain, Ireland. All countries.
Although given that you've actually listed Chinese, pakistani, etc... You probably mean ethnic origin. In which case caucasian should probably be listed rather than British.
I suspect what they are asking is British Caucasian, other caucasian, chinese, pakistani, slav, romany, etc, etc...
Although white British caucasian should be picked out over any other caucasian i'm not sure.

We have a National anthem, a National emblem, a National flag, a Queen of England (not Queen of Gt Britain) and National sporting teams. We are a Nation within a United Kingdom consisting of England, Scotland, Wales (which never has been a country - it's a principality of England) and N. Ireland.

I am English, from England, which just happens to be ruled by the same monarch as the rest of the UK.

If you are born in Wales you are Welsh,if you are born in Ireland (part of the British Isles) you are Irish, if you are born in Scotland you are Scottish hence if you are born in England you are English, you cant be born in all these countries at the same time to called British.
I dont consider Britain a Country its a union of four countries all brought together through wars and upheaval for self protection.

ENGLISH :thumbsup:

I have a wonderful cast belt buckle with the words

"British by birth, English by the grace of God".

Sums it up for me.

And England is indeed a country (unlike Wales, which is a conquered Principality - the Welsh LOVE being reminded of that, much as a dog loves it when you sneak up on its dinner)

Why do some people get so worked up about being 'proud' of where they 'came from'?

It's not like they had to do anything towards it. It's pure accident of birth! Why should it be so important?

Why do some people get so worked up about being 'proud' of where they 'came from'?

It's not like they had to do anything towards it. It's pure accident of birth! Why should it be so important?

Because without National pride, we wouldn't defend it against foreign attack, Mein Herr. Get my drift?;)

I'm me first then everything else after that. British or English it doesn't really matter much.

We have a National anthem......a Queen of England (not Queen of Gt Britain)

1 question, 1 statement of fact:

What is the National Anthem?

And she is also Queen of Scotland and the rest of the Commonwealth whether they want it or not.

I just happened to be born in England. Doesn't mean I have anything in common with other people who happened to be born in England. Its just Geography. Being a mixture and having a "Mc" surname I've always considered myself British.

god save the queen - britain
land of hope & glory - england

1 question, 1 statement of fact:

What is the National Anthem?

And she is also Queen of Scotland and the rest of the Commonwealth whether they want it or not.

God Save the Queen

Queen of Scotland and Queen of England, we share her by union of both Kingdoms under one monarch, but she is not the Queen of Britain.

And, as you say, she is the Queen of some Commonwealth countries .... so negating any idea that because we share a Queen we are the same Nation/Country. The New Zealanders for instance aren't classed as British because of her........ and neither should the English

God Save the Queen is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom & not just England - despite some of anti-Scottish lines.

England as yet don't have a National Anthem; Land Of Hope & Glory looks a likely candidate, as some are trying to adopt it eg. RFU.

Daft, I know, but not as daft as letting Scottish & Welsh MPs decide on English legislation in Parliament, whilst not letting things happen the other way round.:loopy:

I'm scouse first, british second:D :D

LOL @ pasty

Mod Note: Threads merged.

Daft, I know, but not as daft as letting Scottish & Welsh MPs decide on English legislation in Parliament, whilst not letting things happen the other way round.:loopy:

The other way to look at that is that if the Scots (& Welsh) were given FULL independence, not just their own 'local' government, and restricted to their own elections, England would never be Labour again.

The other way to look at that is that if the Scots (& Welsh) were given FULL independence, not just their own 'local' government, and restricted to their own elections, England would never be Labour again.

And the Conservative Party would have no where to introduce their unpopular legislation to see if it works, eg. Poll Tax. It didn't work in Scotland, but never mind lets try it in England anyhow.

And the Conservative Party would have no where to introduce their unpopular legislation to see if it works, eg. Poll Tax. It didn't work in Scotland, but never mind lets try it in England anyhow.

Oh dear, the record's stuck again..... this has been debated to death already fozzybronze, and very recently too........:loopy:

I am English and I am proud of my right, and demand to be so recognised!

The other way to look at that is that if the Scots (& Welsh) were given FULL independence, not just their own 'local' government, and restricted to their own elections, England would never be Labour again.

Is that a promise?:)

God Save the Queen is the National Anthem of the United Kingdom & not just England - despite some of anti-Scottish lines.

England as yet don't have a National Anthem; Land Of Hope & Glory looks a likely candidate, as some are trying to adopt it eg. RFU.


God Save the Queen/King was composed for the Queen/King of England. Gt Britain, and most of the Commonwealth/Empire of that time were placed under the umbrella that it signified. As time has passed, these other nations have developed their own....including Wales and Scotland. N.Ireland maintain God Save the Queen because they are staunch English supporters...or at least the majority are. Now that these other countries have their own anthems, the original country for which GS the Q was written - England - still uses it for its original purpose...... OUR National Anthem.

The thing is there is no country call Britain.........Britain is a union of countries

Oh dear, the record's stuck again..... this has been debated to death already fozzybronze, and very recently too........:loopy:

I am English and I am proud of my right, and demand to be so recognised!
Not by fozzybronze - evidently, are they not entitled to their say on the matter? :huh:

Not by fozzybronze - evidently, are they not entitled to their say on the matter? :huh:

If fozzybronze wants to flog a dead horse, that's up to him/her. There are numerous active threads on General chit-chat that are still active. All he/she needs to do is type in "Poll Tax" in the search facility and they will come up................this thread has nothing to do with Poll Tax......it's about being recognised as English or British!:loopy:

No offense intended; it's just ignorance on the part of most Americans. Many Yanks -- me included until I was set straight by forummers -- consider "British" to be a proper/preferred synonym for "English." I would bet most Americans also consider Great Britain and England to be synonymous.

The difference is apparent and understandable, however, as soon as it's pointed out by a kind, tactful English person. :D

No offense intended; it's just ignorance on the part of most Americans. Many Yanks -- me included until I was set straight by forummers -- consider "British" to be a proper/preferred synonym for "English." I would bet most Americans also consider Great Britain and England to be synonymous.

The difference is apparent and understandable, however, as soon as it's pointed out by a kind, tactful English person. :D

HH, I fit the bill......now what do you want to know?....:hihi: :hihi:

The other way to look at that is that if the Scots (& Welsh) were given FULL independence, not just their own 'local' government, and restricted to their own elections, England would never be Labour again.

GIVEN Full independence? If enough Scots want independence, we will HAVE Independence. It is up to the Scottish nation whether it wishes to remain as a part of the United Kingdom - England can like it or lump it.

StarSparkle

HappyHoosier, the Scots have taken over our Parliament, Civil Service and Government Spokesmen/Women on political TV interviews. This goes to the very top of our Government system.

The Welsh and Northern Irish have their own Assemblies in which to seek election to represent their own country's Laws

The Scots have there own Parliament to determine their Laws.

The English are left stateless, whilst the Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish determine Laws which only affect English people. This goes to the very top of our Legislative body...including Tony Blair. Can this be right? We English have no representation without interference from outside England, we are now considered "British". This cannot be right, and SHOULD NOT STAND!
It is what was known as "The Lothian Question", when Independent rule for Scotland was first proposed.

The Welsh and Northern Irish have their own Assemblies in which to seek election to represent their own country's Laws

The Scots have there own Parliament to determine their Laws.

The English are left stateless, whilst the Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish determine Laws which only affect English people. This goes to the very top of our Legislative body...including Tony Blair. Can this be right? We English have no representation without interference from outside England, we are now considered "British". This cannot be right, and SHOULD NOT STAND!


Hmmm. I see your point, shoeshine. It does seem unfair.:suspect:

Hmmm. I see your point, shoeshine. It does seem unfair.:suspect:

What lovely people live in Fort Wayne........:)

Hmmm. I see your point, shoeshine. It does seem unfair.:suspect:
CAUTION: What shoeshine is basically saying here HappyHoosier is, "If any foreigner has the audacity to call me British, I'll kick the brown stuff out of them!";) He's subtle like that.

The thing is there is no country call Britain.........Britain is a union of countries
There is a state, the United Kingdom (trendily known as the Yoo-Kay), and the nations(a different thing) of England, Scotland, Wales and - a slightly more complicated one - Northern Ireland.

CAUTION: What shoeshine is basically saying here HappyHoosier is, "If any foreigner has the audacity to call me British, I'll kick the brown stuff out of them!";) He's subtle like that.

You hit the nail on the head.......:hihi:

I am checking my "cata" to make sure it really will "pult".........

There is a state, the United Kingdom (trendily known as the Yoo-Kay), and the nations(a different thing) of England, Scotland, Wales and - a slightly more complicated one - Northern Ireland.

So 'nationality', as asked for on forms, would include either ENGLISH, SCOTTISH, WELSH or N. IRISH not BRITISH which is a state.

I think I'll find a less volatile thread before things get physical. Britannia rules!

I think I'll find a less volatile thread before things get physical. Britannia rules!

No need to go HH, my catapult is aimed north of Sheffield, not to the West.........:)

GIVEN Full independence? If enough Scots want independence, we will HAVE Independence. It is up to the Scottish nation whether it wishes to remain as a part of the United Kingdom - England can like it or lump it.

StarSparkle

I think you misunderstand - I'm fully supportive of Scotland having full independence.

When that happens, the millions of Scottish Labour votes stay north of the wall, and England can throw the lefties out of government for once and all. We can also stop supporting the Scottish population whose public services are provided through funds from English taxpayers.

Half English

My mother was half English and I’m half English too
I’m a great big bundle of culture tied up in the red white and blue
I’m a fine example of your 'Sheffield' man
And I’m well familiar with the Hindustan
Cos my neighbours are half English and I’m half English too
My breakfast was half English and so am I you know
I had a plate of Marmite soldiers washed down with a cappuccino
And I have a veggie curry about once a week
The next day I fry it up as bubble and squeak
Cos my appetites half English and I’m half English too
Dance with me to this very English melody
From morris dancing to Morrissey,
all that stuff came from across the sea
Britannia, she’s half English,
she speaks Latin at home
St George was born in the Lebanon,
how he got here I don’t know
nd those three lions on your shirt,
They never sprang from England’s dirt
Them lions are half English and I’m half English too
Le-li Umma le-li-ya,
le-li Umma le-li-ya,Le-li Umma le-li-ya,
bledi g’desh akh! le-li-ya
Oh my country,
what a beautiful country you are

HappyHoosier, the Scots have taken over our Parliament, Civil Service and Government Spokesmen/Women on political TV interviews. This goes to the very top of our Government system.

The Welsh and Northern Irish have their own Assemblies in which to seek election to represent their own country's Laws

The Scots have there own Parliament to determine their Laws.

The English are left stateless, whilst the Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish determine Laws which only affect English people. This goes to the very top of our Legislative body...including Tony Blair. Can this be right? We English have no representation without interference from outside England, we are now considered "British". This cannot be right, and SHOULD NOT STAND!
It is what was known as "The Lothian Question", when Independent rule for Scotland was first proposed.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i see myself as English
i think British is to much of an generalisation.

Question - If I was born in Scotland does that make me Scottish even though I only lived there 6 months and neither of my parents are Scottish?

No, it makes you dual nationality.

Britannia rules!

Britannia waives the rules!:)

I'm English. I always thought British was more of a political thing than a 'blood' thing. More related to bureaucracy and the like (passports etc).

The French always call us les anglais anyway which got me thinking.

And I always add that I'm from Yorkshire.

And to echo what Max said "I'm me first" and you can ask anyone who knows me.

When that happens, the millions of Scottish Labour votes stay north of the wall, and England can throw the lefties out of government for once and all.
Here, here! :clap:

I am white British/english,anglo saxon hetrosexual and a tax payer,yep I know I am becoming a minority.
Oh and what happend to the thread about you know who standing for election?

'Anglo Saxon hetrosexual' - is this a new fetish I am unaware of?

Saucy!

Well I am English and proud of it but it really must be said that the Scots, Welsh and Irish have a real identity but England is all beer and football, tasteless sportswear, poor quality ale and people who make no real effort with their appearance, unlike the French. Its a pity Napoleon lost really.

I think you'll find if you refer to the ever popular football badgers (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/footy/), England is regarded as the home of ninjas, lasers and gold; wales is held in high esteem for its sheep and dirt, scotland is known for its haggis and scotch eggs and northern ireland is known for its guiness and fighting.

In all seriousness, I usually refer to myself as English, but it doesn't make the blindest bit of difference to me personally - what side of an imaginary border (bearing in mind that the same laws, customs and government generally exist on both sides of the border) you're born on doesn't really make a difference to me.

Well, my nationality is 'who gives a crap!'

I was born in a pretty decent country, and I am grateful. I have done nothing for the country to be proud of other than be born.

I am also a person who doesn't need to state my race or sexual preference. quite simply, because I am not scared of different races or sexualities. I don't understand how you can be proud of your race for example. Fair enough if you designed yourself, and are proud of your work. I don't think anyone has done that though. You are what you are! You have done nothing to be proud of in existing.

Does that make me a bad person?

Well I am English and proud of it but it really must be said that the Scots, Welsh and Irish have a real identity but England is all beer and football, tasteless sportswear, poor quality ale and people who make no real effort with their appearance, unlike the French. Its a pity Napoleon lost really.
The only trouble with that is we would all have been french and even the french don't like that. Thats why they want a european state. So they don't have to admit they're french. Thats also why Englands in the state it's in because people have no pride in their country. You claim to have but then come out with " England is all beer and football, tasteless sportswear, poor quality ale and people who make no real effort with their appearance, unlike the French". Unlike the french who eat frogs legs and snails and stink of garlic all the time.If it wasn't for the British/ Australian/Canadian armed forces the french would have been German.

I am white British/english,anglo saxon hetrosexual and a tax payer,yep I know I am becoming a minority.
Oh and what happend to the thread about you know who standing for election?
you do realise roy.that being white british english anglo saxon and maybe a taxpayer are things which we have NO control over whatsoever.you talk as though you have earned your right to this fortunate identity and you have a sense of pride about it.Do you take pride in your shoe size too roy.I'm all of those things you mentioned except being white.people have told me in the past to be proud of that but i won't show pride in what i haven't achieved.Its that simple.I work hard ,pay my taxes,abide by the law and I love my country.So whether i'm english or british doesn't really matter.I'm just lucky to have been born{english or british}

The only trouble with that is we would all have been french and even the french don't like that. Thats why they want a european state. So they don't have to admit they're french. Thats also why Englands in the state it's in because people have no pride in their country. You claim to have but then come out with " England is all beer and football, tasteless sportswear, poor quality ale and people who make no real effort with their appearance, unlike the French". Unlike the french who eat frogs legs and snails and stink of garlic all the time.If it wasn't for the British/ Australian/Canadian armed forces the french would have been German.
And if it were not for the Americans so would we.

I dont think the French eat that stuff all the time nor stink of garlic as opposed to the English who stink of...Lynx.:loopy:

This may explain the history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Great_Britain

For myself I am a Yorkshireman first, an Englishman second, and British only on my passport.

Yes mr prime you are loopy if the yanks hadn't got involved they would have been japs, and half the time it was the english getting the yanks out of trouble they got themselves into. Both wars the yanks waited till they could see who was going to win before joining in, 1914/18 the yanks didn't come into it till 1917. 1939/45 they didn,t come into it till 1941.

Yes mr prime you are loopy if the yanks hadn't got involved they would have been japs, and half the time it was the english getting the yanks out of trouble they got themselves into. Both wars the yanks waited till they could see who was going to win before joining in, 1914/18 the yanks didn't come into it till 1917. 1939/45 they didn,t come into it till 1941.

By which time the battle for Britain was finished, and they joined us in our fight to liberate the rest of Europe, they didn't liberate us.

I am white British/english,anglo saxon hetrosexual and a tax payer,yep I know I am becoming a minority.

Ooh, you're the same as me. Can't be many of us left eh?

Is there anyone else out there who is a part of this soon to be extinct minority? Perhaps we can have fund raising coffee mornings, or apply to the Lottery for a big party to celebrate our heritage? :hihi:

I'm up for that Tone! :clap: you buying the first round matey?

That depends on how many turn up and who supports my new regime! (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1023670&postcount=26)

My slogan will be Beer for Votes

I think I qualify, do I need to pay a certain amount of tax to apply?

No ... just paying tax will suffice.

That depends on how many turn up and who supports my new regime! (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1023670&postcount=26)

My slogan will be Beer for Votes
I think your regime (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1023723&posted=1#post1023723) may need a tweek :hihi:


p.s. If you replace the beer with cider I'll vote for you!

Ah well, part of the economy manifesto is to remove all taxes on apple based beverages.

What's your tipple, Tony? Half a Woodpecker cider in a lady's glass? LOL.