Yet again another company sees profits in using foreign labour over Sheffield residents. Although Ive never seen a loaf of Fletchers bread distributed in my area I want to call a boycott on all Fletchers products until they find a different way of finding a solution to their bad management.

I think that people ought to stand up to such abuse of the local work force where the little money that is earnt is sent out of the country. This depletes the areas where the workers are of disposable income and soon the shops and industries around the workers shrivel up.

Lets stop this profiteering rot now, it will affect you if you dont. What other ways could this company revive itself?

Link from Star article in September
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/200-jobs-axed-at-Fletchers.3180845.jp

What exactly are they doing wrong, then?

If it's cheaper for a business to employ foreigners then I can fully understand why they will employ them over a local workforce. Sadly, there is no loyalty in business these days and large companies will go to any lengths to ensure they make their profits and please their share-holders.

The problem as I see it is not with the business bosses but with this government. They have forced the national minimum wage upon us and yet immigrants enter the country who are prepared to work for cheaper rates. Quite what the legal situation is with employing immigrants I do not know, but I know of an electrician who told me his phone hasn't rung in the past three months.

Why? Any job he goes out to estimate he gets undercut by Mr Immigrant who will do the job for a rate the electrician would not bother getting out of bed for.

As a (small) business owner myself, employment is a costly element to running any business and if one can pay cheaper rates that at least brings one of the business's overheads down on the balance sheet.

Maybe Fletcher's, like the rest of us, were having such a hard time they decided to seize this opportunity to lay off some staff. A bit like 'a good day for burying bad news', another New Labour euphenism.

Having said all this, I cannot find reference to immigrants taking over jobs at Fletcher's or elsewhere in the article linked.

I was chatting to my grandad who's in his 90's and says that Fletchers used to be renowned for their pro-union sympathies. He was saying that in the 30's one of the owners was known for getting up on his soapbox in the city centre to make his views known. Then it was locally owned with an understanding of local needs. So few locally owned companies with local control these days ...

And they're called Vision Capital of all things, no vision there.

We already boycotted the Fletchers stuff a good while ago, the trouble is you need to know which other shops use their bread and other products re badged as their own as quite a few used to, i`m not so sure which ones do now though.

[quote]Lets stop this profiteering rot now, it will affect you if you dont. What other ways could this company revive itself?[quote]

The company Vision Capital should have invested the 30 million that it recieved from the insurers back into the bakery to rebuild it as was promised, Northern foods started the ball rolling and planning permission was granted but as soon as Vision bought it the preparitory work was stopped and only a small essential part was completed.
If it went back to being run the way that Paul Fletcher used to run it then it would be a very well run profitable business, which would be a good place to work unfortunately that will never happen and it will continue to be a terrible place to work with bad management and mostly temp/agency staff being chosen over the locals that have been loyal to the place for years.
I`ve got relatives who have worked there and some still do and it`s awful, the new terms and conditions are being imposed soon and they are being stripped of holidays that were agreed instead of pay rises years ago, they are almost back down to minimum wage again now.
It does seem that they are trying to force permanent workers out possibly by forcing a strike or some other form of action and then they will have an excuse to close it and blame the workers, some people have worked there for almost 30 years and only got the minimum statutory redundancy!!!
I think they still want the land to build new homes on which would be very profitable and they`re just biding their time.

i can appreciate why employers employ foreign workers as they will work for peanuts but they then send that money back to their families who need it but that has a knock on effect to our economy - the money sent abroad could have been spent locally, many shops close due to lack of business, i'm sure most of you will have seen how many shops have opened and closed in hillsbro, dont know if there is a lot we can do tho???

Do you tend to buy local produce or just buy the cheapest? Businesses have to be profitable unfortunately and if somewhere else can produce similar goods cheaper then they are more likely to stay afloat. Yes it does stink for the local community but people cant afford (or dont want to pay) how much it costs to have locally produced goods which is why everything these days seems to come from China (Im sure bread isnt from China - well I hope it isnt anyway;) but its a similar principle).

In the US there are strict rules controlling who is able to work, i`m not sure of all the ins and outs but if someone who has a job to go to over there then the spouse isn`t allowed to work and take jobs which would normally be available to the homelanders, (not sure if this is permanent or time restricted) if you are going to set up a business then a certain percentage of workers must be people who originate from that country.
Maybe if we adopted similar rules then our economy would be better managed?
If someone came here to work and had to use their wages to support a family then the money would be spent here.
On the other hand so many come here alone and send every bit back :mad:

1) I cant find any ref to 'foreign workers' in that article

2) If they decide to pay peanuts then thats up to them. If nobody local can be bothered to get out of bed for minimum wage then why the fuss if someone from the (Im guessing) EU wants it?

Deepak

Try this link instead

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/Christmas-job-cuts-devastate-workers.3565625.jp

Full and permanent workers are losing their jobs in favour of temp agency workers.

In the US there are strict rules controlling who is able to work, i`m not sure of all the ins and outs but if someone who has a job to go to over there then the spouse isn`t allowed to work and take jobs which would normally be available to the homelanders, (not sure if this is permanent or time restricted) if you are going to set up a business then a certain percentage of workers must be people who originate from that country.
Maybe if we adopted similar rules then our economy would be better managed?
If someone came here to work and had to use their wages to support a family then the money would be spent here.
On the other hand so many come here alone and send every bit back :mad:


Looking at the way the American economy is going and the appalling inequalities in their social structures I wouldn't vote for anything that emulates them in any shape or form to be honest.

Try this link instead

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/Christmas-job-cuts-devastate-workers.3565625.jp

Full and permanent workers are losing their jobs in favour of temp agency workers.



Thats totally different

Im in on the boycot :)

If they are trashing the current workforce for this then they can rot

Deepak

Looking at the way the American economy is going and the appalling inequalities in their social structures I wouldn't vote for anything that emulates them in any shape or form to be honest.

What would you suggest instead?

Mr Ayub said agency staff from Eastern Europe, being paid at lower rates, had this week been trained up in front of operatives who were being made redundant.
Oh the irony;)

What would you suggest instead?

Not being the fount of all knowledge I haven't the foggiest but I do consider the American way to be generally worse overall than ours. That's why I posted as I did.

2) If they decide to pay peanuts then thats up to them. If nobody local can be bothered to get out of bed for minimum wage then why the fuss if someone from the (Im guessing) EU wants it?

Because it's just the start. I don't think the minimum wage is a far price for an hours work - whatever the work.

If more companies stop paying what workers deserve to reflect the skill or labour of the work, then they get away with minimum wage. And how many on here have a mortgage or can afford to live on minimum wage?

Another thing about the Eastern Europeans is that they are very close knit when it comes to friends and family - and part of that is living together. They will happily sqeeze as many as they can into one house, so they can afford such meagre wages if the rent is split eight or nine ways. My last employer had Polish cleaners who lived like this.

Yet again another company sees profits in using foreign labour over Sheffield residents. Although Ive never seen a loaf of Fletchers bread distributed in my area I want to call a boycott on all Fletchers products until they find a different way of finding a solution to their bad management.

I think that people ought to stand up to such abuse of the local work force where the little money that is earnt is sent out of the country. This depletes the areas where the workers are of disposable income and soon the shops and industries around the workers shrivel up.

Lets stop this profiteering rot now, it will affect you if you dont. What other ways could this company revive itself?

Link from Star article in September
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/200-jobs-axed-at-Fletchers.3180845.jp

Naw not me. Behave like a consumer and let the unions worry about the workers.

Naw not me. Behave like a consumer and let the unions worry about the workers.

It's fair to say that most people will go for price and quality when choosing what to buy for their families. Union power has declined (think back to the 1970s) and big business is in the ascendant, with the government trying (or maybe not trying) to achieve some sort of fairness. But for good or ill, it's called the market, and we are stuck with it - at least until we have a workers' revolution.

I was chatting to my grandad who's in his 90's and says that Fletchers used to be renowned for their pro-union sympathies. He was saying that in the 30's one of the owners was known for getting up on his soapbox in the city centre to make his views known. Then it was locally owned with an understanding of local needs. So few locally owned companies with local control these days ...

And they're called Vision Capital of all things, no vision there.

George H Fletcher was certainly understanding of workers' needs, he was a prominent trade unionist, guardian and at the centre of the Trades Council for many years. He was also a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Great Britain and travelled to several congresses in Moscow, one of which can be seen here (George is on the right):

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s09370

His biography was written by Nellie Connole in the late 1950s, full of his revolutionary and union activities - including being arrested amidst the social turmoil of the early 1920s and the 1926 strike (I think) and there are other accounts centred on the bakery.

Fletcher was part of a generation of trade unionists and labour activists who were well known across the city, spoke to thousands in meetings in squares and streets, weren't scared of criticising either the government or, on occasion, the national Labour Party and had a huge impact on the lives of people in the city through their municipal activities.

Incidentally, and I hope they don't mind me saying this, HennyPenny and AlbertTSmith's ancestors were both part of this same generation and were similarly well-known for their efforts on behalf of Sheffield's working men and women.

So - someone who works/worked there must know who they make products for. Lets have the list then.

:confused:....I'm a bit confused about this situation. According to the govt. and the apologists for govt. policy on immigration here on the forum most of the east Europeans who come to UK are here to fill jobs that native Brits don't want to do.

Fletchers however seem to be making existing workers redundant so they can employ foreign workers at a cheaper rate than their existing work force ?

I thought that was illegal ?

:confused:....I'm a bit confused about this situation. According to the govt. and the apologists for govt. policy on immigration here on the forum most of the east Europeans who come to UK are here to fill jobs that native Brits don't want to do.


The silence will be deafening ;)

So lets start , Burger buns, M&S ,Sains, and Tesco muffins,Tesco and Sains scones if they get the orders back,Tesco and Sains hotdog rolls,and various other bread products if them orders come back.

So lets start , Burger buns, M&S ,Sains, and Tesco muffins,Tesco and Sains scones if they get the orders back,Tesco and Sains hotdog rolls,and various other bread products if them orders come back.

The foreign parent company who bought it and are screwing it into the ground should be boycotted too, vision crapital also own Threshers so perhaps it`s time we stopped buying our booze from there and used some of the smaller independant shops.

Shock horror they also own the rip off Brighthouse, lets all buy a new telly from there for Christmas and pay for it thirty times over with their rip off interest rates..... NOT!!!!
Go here to see just which companies they own and then decide for yourselves what to do.
http://www.visioncapital.com/

if there is 2 company giving you a qoute to do some work, one does it at £5/hour the othe £20/hour which company would you hire, Companies is all about making profit and not oh he is english we just pay him £15/hour more

Where do you get your figures from??
They are grossly inaccurate.

I just made a quick call and the difference is only a couple of quid an hour, the shifts have been shortened by 4 hours per day and the weekends have been knocked off and thats when most made it into a decent liveable wage even though it was a 60 hour + week they were willing to work for it.

I doubt whether the amount involved makes much difference to the owners but it will make a massive difference to the people who work there.
At least now they will be low earners most will be able to claim benefits to enable them to keep their homes and feed their kids etc

"if there is 2 company giving you a qoute to do some work" Does this translate to
" if there are two companies giving you quotes for work?"
If so do you always use the cheapest?
Usually you get what you pay for.:loopy:

Thats right about the hrs, my wages will be down on average £6,000 per yr and holidays down from 35 days to 25, these are extra days accumulated through length of service, any weekend work that is availible will be paying time and half sat. time and three quarts, sun ,

Yet again another company sees profits in using foreign labour over Sheffield residents. Although Ive never seen a loaf of Fletchers bread distributed in my area I want to call a boycott on all Fletchers products until they find a different way of finding a solution to their bad management.

I think that people ought to stand up to such abuse of the local work force where the little money that is earnt is sent out of the country. This depletes the areas where the workers are of disposable income and soon the shops and industries around the workers shrivel up.

Lets stop this profiteering rot now, it will affect you if you dont. What other ways could this company revive itself?

Link from Star article in September


So what do you think has caused this problem (if it is a problem)?

1) Fletchers bakery

Do you really think they are choosing foreign workers over Sheffield residents or choosing the cheapest workers who happen to be foreign?

2) Foreign workers

Should they look at the foreign / Sheffield residents ratio and hand in their notice on their first day if it doest look good for the local economy?

3) Or you

The Sheffield resident choosing not to work there. I know I come under this too but I'm not the one complaining.

This is the problem all over, we just aren’t prepared to work and live in the same conditions and for the low pay that a lot of foreign workers are. I saw someone say that they share the houses to split overheads so they can live on less money. Well I don’t believe anyone is stopping Sheffield residents from doing the same are they.

As for sending their money home, who are you to tell them where they can spend their earnings. How much money do you think a foreign factory operative sends home in a year. Now compare that amount to an average family holiday abroad.

I see you have never seen a Fletchers loaf, so your wanting us to go with our second choice whilst you do nothing. Have you ever been taken out for a romantic Italian meal, or just eaten in / taken away from an Indian or Chinese? How do you think their foreign / Sheffield resident workforce ratio compares to Fletchers? But boycotting them might have an effect on you.

As for the solution and what’s best for our, so called, depleting local economy. I would think boycotting them and potentially causing a local bakery to close down would be the worst thing to do. Then we would need to pay more for produce not as fresh as it has further to travel. Also not all workers at Fletchers are foreign and so local people would loose their jobs too. The best solution is to support them so they can make the jobs more rewarding and then maybe Sheffield residents would see working there as being a more attractive occupation.

The Sheffield resident choosing not to work there. I know I come under this too but I'm not the one complaining.

This is the problem all over, we just aren’t prepared to work and live in the same conditions and for the low pay that a lot of foreign workers are. I saw someone say that they share the houses to split overheads so they can live on less money. Well I don’t believe anyone is stopping Sheffield residents from doing the same are they.

The Sheffield residents ARE willing to work there, it`s not a case of there`s no one to take the jobs, the Sheffield residents are being told their jobs arn`t there any more and are being laid off, then temporary workers are being brought in to do the work, they don`t need holiday pay etc so the permanent workers are being shafted and forced onto benefits.

This is the problem all over, we just aren’t prepared to work and live in the same conditions and for the low pay that a lot of foreign workers are. I saw someone say that they share the houses to split overheads so they can live on less money. Well I don’t believe anyone is stopping Sheffield residents from doing the same are they.
The workers from overseas are living like this temporarily until they go back home with their money, they are single people who don`t come over with families and don`t mind temporary cramped accommodation, try telling people with families to support that to keep a roof over their heads they must pack up their wives and kids and move into a house with several other families sleeping god knows how many to a room permanently.

It`s not quite too late to salvage the bakery and turn it around but it seems that no one really wants to, if the owners did they would be trying very hard and following the way things were done when it really was Fletchers Bakery not another company trading under the name.

The Sheffield residents ARE willing to work there, it`s not a case of there`s no one to take the jobs, the Sheffield residents are being told their jobs arn`t there any more and are being laid off, then temporary workers are being brought in to do the work, they don`t need holiday pay etc so the permanent workers are being shafted and forced onto benefits.

You have missed the point, the temporary jobs not needing holiday pay are just as available to permanent staff as they are to the foreign workers. Foreign workers have no advantage over Sheffield residents for any job other than their attitude towards it. The Sheffield residents you mention opt to claim benefits because that’s available to them. Foreign workers don’t have that option and so are happy for the work. But let me state that I understand having to do this is no good for the permanent worker and that changes like this and worse happen as companies start to fail and its very unfortunate.

The workers from overseas are living like this temporarily until they go back home with their money, they are single people who don`t come over with families and don`t mind temporary cramped accommodation,

Don’t you think that’s very presumptuous? What percentage of foreign workers at Fletchers do you think fit this bill? Do you honestly think they don’t mind temporary cramped accommodation? Or their circumstances make it acceptable to them.

All I am trying to do is make people stop and look at this from a different angle and a little more open mindedly. All Fletchers are doing is the same as you buying a TV made in China. If you want to save money and can make advantage on workers willing to work for low pay then you will do, whether you’re a business employing direct or the end consumer taking advantage of lower prices at the other end.