I am intrigued as to why the word Paki is classed as racist.

Paki is surely abbreviated for Pakistani as Brit is for British, as Scot is for Scottish so who decided that Paki, being abbreviated as Pakistani is a racist remark?

That in itslef is surely racist implying that there is something bad about being Pakistani.

Can anyone explain?

PLEASE DO NOT DETRACT AND USE THIS THREAD TO PASS RACIAL COMMENTS - I AM NOT RACIST, BUT AM INTRIGUED AS TO THE REASONINGS BEHIND THIS, particularly as Pakistanis whom we have known refer to Paki shops etc.

I believe that it is known as 'wrong' because it was used in an offensive and abusive way for many years. It will probably lose its offensiveness over time as people stop using it in that way.

The word ‘Paki’ is offensive because it has been adopted as a term of abuse for all people regarded as ‘asian’ ‘Brit‘, ‘Ausiel etc i have only ever heard used affectionate, I have only ever heard lPakil used as a term of abuse.
As was revealed by an enlightening private eye comic strip regarding Leeds united.

What suprises me is the predjudice between Pakistani's, Muslims and Indians. Until a few months ago i never knew of this discrimination (my ignorance) and i was shocked to hear it coming from one of the mentioned parties.

Well done for starting this topic teeb :thumbsup:

As Disco_Cat pointed out, it is used as a term for anyone 'asian'. People from the UK can get upset if people call them English when they may be Welsh, for example.
As far as I can tell, it is offensive because it is generally used inaccurately, and this annacuracy can come across as derogatory because it trivialises the matter and makes it seem like people don't care.
It would be interesting to actually hear from someone who has experienced being called a Paki, and whether they found it offensive or not.

AFAIK it's not so much the word itself that is wrong (as you say, the correct meaning is simply an abreviation of Pakistani - in the same as Brit or Scot), but the problem is more the context in which people use it.

Unfortunately it is a word that is commonly used in a racist context, and so has taken on that meaning rather than the correct one.

The opposite is (I think) starting to happen to a similar word, n*gger.

This used to be a word very much seen as a racist comment, but nowadays that meaning is dying thanks in no small part I think to the rap culture using it as a positive statement of identify rather than a negative one.

The bit I don't understand in that example is why if a white person were to say it, people assume they are using it as a racist term (apart from Eminem).

Not a word I would ever use, but something I find curious.

Can someone explain to me why it is ok for them to call themselves Paki's but everybody else cannot?

http://www.paki.com

Originally posted by Lickszz
Can someone explain to me why it is ok for them to call themselves Paki's but everybody else cannot?

http://www.paki.com

That is exactly what I cannot understand. If Paki is not a nice word to use then is this not insinuating that Pakistanis are not nice people? It is, after all, an abreviation of their country of origin so why is it such a bad word to use when it is used by themselves?

Is it a bad word though if used correctly?

I worked in bed shop a number of years ago and our suppliers were indians, pakistani's and a welsh company.
We always refered to them as the paki's, indians and taffs. I deffered to the wisdom of the manager of the shop who knew these guys better than I did and lived in an mult-cultured area outside manchester. I honestly do not believe we could have caused offense to any of them as we had such good relations with them all - including getting invited to social events etc. They also refered to each other by the same monikers.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
The word ‘Paki’ is offensive because it has been adopted as a term of abuse for all people regarded as ‘asian’ ‘Brit‘, ‘Ausiel etc i have only ever heard used affectionate, I have only ever heard lPakil used as a term of abuse.



Makes you wonder why everyone sees something offensive about the Pakistanis ???

What's offensive about the f-word? I can't even type it in this website without it being censored. It only describes lovemaking. If "Paki" is ok surely **** is?

I write the above to prove a point. It's not the word that is offensive but people's reaction to it. I wouldn't say **** to my granny coz she's get offended by it. But I'd say it to my mates in the pub coz they'd laugh.

One Pakistani can call another "Paki" because the recipient wont be offended (a person can't be racist about himself) whereas if a (non-trusted) non-pakistani said it, the recipient may feel there is something derogotary about the exchange.. therefore offence.

Taffs, jocks, aussies etc are all terms bandied about between equals, more or less therefore less offence. (Did you know in the caribbean there is similar banter between natives of the different islands?).

Why is the c-word offensive to many women? It only refers to their sexual organ.....?

I could go on...

I agree, it's the same as in America where Blacks can call each other '******' but it's seen as offensive if used by Whites. It's actually a kind of double standard really.

Stood alone the word Paki isn't an insult. What you have to remember is when it's followed by another word for someone who is illegitimate that it becomes racist.

Originally posted by swan
I agree, it's the same as in America where Blacks can call each other '******' but it's seen as offensive if used by Whites. It's actually a kind of double standard really.

Swan read my post above. It explains it, but I'll reiterate. If your best friend affectionatelly called you 'phallus' the whole time and you both laughed about it that would be cool. But if a stranger (and an agressive one at that) came up to you and called you 'phallus' you'd probably take it in a completely different way.

Think about it. It makes sense.

Originally posted by E-Man Groovin
Swan read my post above. It explains it, but I'll reiterate. If your best friend affectionatelly called you 'phallus' the whole time and you both laughed about it that would be cool. But if a stranger (and an agressive one at that) came up to you and called you 'phallus' you'd probably take it in a completely different way.

Think about it. It makes sense.
Yeh, but equally I wouldn't want an aggressive stranger calling me Colin, there's nothing offensive about the name Colin, it's the aggression that's the issue.

In Australia, they call us Poms and they call Pakistanis, Pakis. I've watched cricket matches between the Aussies and Pakistan and heard the Aussie commentator declare: That's it, the Pakis are out. I heard a Radio 4 programme on this very subject and the Aussies say whilst they use the term with no problems, they are quite bewildered that here in Pommieland, it's classed as a racist, derogatary mark!

But I agree with those of you who say it's offensive not in itself but in the way it is used. I've been with friends who've muttered paki-this, paki-that when I know that the person they are referring to is not even Pakistani. That's not so much an insult as a blinding lack of intelligence. It's sheer ignorance. And, as we know to a large degree Muslims and Hindus aren't exactly best of friends, so to group one section of society with another can be quite offensive.

As for the N word, which still sounds nasty to these ears, I'm afraid there are double standards here. Whilst it is quite rightly censored when referring to blacks, it's strange how Elvis Costello gets away with 'one less white n*gger' in Oliver's Army! And why, because it's referring to whites, not blacks.

As you've probably gathered, I'm not too sure about any of this. Once more, it's probably the press that makes more out of this than anything else. The sad thing is, part of our society uses terms like Paki as a missile when really it should be a term of endearment. Paki, Brit, Scot, Taffy, Aussie, 'Frog', they're words!!

I agree with the comments that have been raised on this thread. My own personal take on the matter is that words such as Paki and ****** should only be taken as an insult if they are meant in this way.

As a gay man, I have been called all kinds of things through the years such as Poof, Queer, Gayboy, Ass Bandit etc. and it really does matter WHO is saying it, and the CONTEXT in which it is meant!

As an aside, the one thing I personally hate is when people try to go all politically correct, and start bandying around terms such as Homosexual. I just think that makes it sound like a disease!

K x

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Yeh, but equally I wouldn't want an aggressive stranger calling me Colin, there's nothing offensive about the name Colin, it's the aggression that's the issue.

o.k. even minus the aggression... if your boss called you 'phallus' the argument would still apply.

Originally posted by swan
I agree, it's the same as in America where Blacks can call each other '******' but it's seen as offensive if used by Whites. It's actually a kind of double standard really.

It's not about double standards, it's about people reclaiming words that are supposed to hurt them. It isn't just racist names, it could also be said about the word queer.

I think it is a touch of genius when a group adopts a word that was supposed to be hurtful against them to discribe themselves, because it just leaves the racists hopping mad that they cannot use the word, but the people they want to hurt can.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
But I agree with those of you who say it's offensive not in itself but in the way it is used. I've been with friends who've muttered paki-this, paki-that when I know that the person they are referring to is not even Pakistani. That's not so much an insult as a blinding lack of intelligence. It's sheer ignorance. And, as we know to a large degree Muslims and Hindus aren't exactly best of friends, so to group one section of society with another can be quite offensive.

I agree Ousetunes, it's the way it is used. As I said earlier it is the incorrect use of the term that is offensive, but I don't think it is to do with religion particularly. For example, you are Irish whether you are Catholic or Protestant (or whatever else), just as you are Pakistani whether you are Muslim, Christian or Hindu.

Perhaps the other thing to take into account is that many "Paki's" who live in this country are third or fourth generation and have never been to Pakistan and are British. Calling them a Paki then becomes racist because it is based purely on the colour of their skin?

I reckon its ok to call someone a paki if you're sure they are from pakistan. I know when I lived abroad I quickly got sick of being mistaken for an american!!

i remember reading about this lad who's number plate was something with `paik' in it. Well he got no end of trouble for it, police questioning him and gangs of pakistani lads chasing his car. and yes....he himself was pakistani and was proud of it so he had paid out for the number plate.....think this was in leeds but cant really remember too well.

Originally posted by Snook
It's not about double standards, it's about people reclaiming words that are supposed to hurt them. It isn't just racist names, it could also be said about the word queer.


What I also find a bit annoying is that a perfectly normal word for merry, i.e. "gay" has now been hijacked to mean homosexual or whatever word one uses. I don't use the word 'gay' for homos but it is not possible to use it in its correct sense.
Just think of the response you would get if you said to a straight colleague "You were really gay last night".

I agree that it's the connotations with the word, more than the word itself.

any word, if used in an aggressive way can become hostile.

P*ki is almost always used in a negative/perjorative sense, as is the "n" word.

I dislike.... no, *detest* the word "c**t" for the same reasons. It makes me very uncomfortable, despite being simply an anglo-saxon word.

It is almost always used by men, particularly against women, in an aggressive, threatening, and hostile manner. it is very rare that you find that word used in an affectionate way.

just my two penn'orth

PT

It's definitely within the contextual use of the word.

My husband was once called an English b*****d by a Scottish lad - so the problem is widespread.

At the end of the day, it would be nice to just get along with everyone, but I don't think that will happen in my lifetime. The amount of trust and awareness required is too much for some to contemplate.

The c**t word and the motherf****r word are words that I will not use under any circumstance. They make me very uncomfortable.

I won't use 'paki' because of connotation.

I tend to go by what people call themselves on many occasions, but wherever possible I ditch the labels and just use things like people's names.....they were given them for a reason...:)

I also use the word 'Sir' when speaking with a considerably older man than me, but tend to not have a similar word for an older woman...

Joe

So what do the gays think about the popular tv show in the US "Queer eyes for the straight guys" ?

Originally posted by JoePritchard
I also use the word 'Sir' when speaking with a considerably older man than me, but tend to not have a similar word for an older woman...

Joe [/B]

try 'ma'am'.specially when you address me heheheh
SW

Originally posted by JoePritchard
I also use the word 'Sir' when speaking with a considerably older man than me, but tend to not have a similar word for an older woman...

I tend to go with 'Fella' for a man, and 'Lady' for a woman... works fine. :D

Hmm, if you knew your best mate was a '*******' would you insist on saying, oh theres Mike, the *******. Probs not.

Another point about this.... it's not really down to us to make the decision as to whether or not a word is racist.

If someone is called "Paki", isn't up to the person on the receiving end of it to make the decision as to whether he finds it offensive or not?

Personally I think it's a horrible word as is generally used as an insult.

Originally posted by screamingwitch
try 'ma'am'.specially when you address me heheheh
SW

Hmmm....but I only use 'Sir' when the recipient looks over 65....

So.....would that criterion apply to you? ;)

Joe

Interestingly, sections of British Asian youth in Bradford have taken to calling themselves "Pakis", often loudly and vociferously too. Some of them, if anecdotal evidence counts for much, are not only claiming the word from racists, in what might be seen as a battle over the ' ownership of the word', but using the term as a defiant badge of non-British ethnic identity.

Aside from anecdotal evidence, I recently saw British Asian youths on a documentary by Darcus Howe behaving in this fashion. "We are Pakis!", they cried, against a backdrop of Pakistani national flags, in what appeared to be an attempt at defiance rather than celebration. Certainly, they were not celebrating the "diverse" and "multicultural" society that left-leaning politicians, "progressive" Bishops etc assure us we are so fortunate to live in. Some will say, ah bless them; they are only doing so in response to the "institutional" and overt racism in British society. I am not so sure. One youth, with a rather cruel smile playing about his lips, excitedly boasted of how in ten years time, "It will be just like Pakistan around here". If he is correct, and cities like Bradford do become majority-Asian cities, let us hope that the word, "Paki" retains its infamy, rather than emerging as a threatening badge of non-British allegiance and identity.

A lot of people who get called a 'paki' are not actually from Pakistan.
Mixed raced people may get called 'pakis' even though their mother is african/jamaican etc. and their father is white or vice versa. But because of their light brown skin colour, they are sometimes assumed to be from pakistan. ???

i'm white and when I first started college, I'd been to Greece the week before and a girl in my class asked if I was 'fully white' cos I had a good suntan! (I'm all pale again now though but it was quite a compliment, I think)
So even white people can be questioned about their race lol.

Some people will always say, I'm Jewish, but never say I'm a Jew ! don't get that either.

Originally posted by timo
Aside from anecdotal evidence, I recently saw British Asian youths on a documentary by Darcus Howe behaving in this fashion. "We are Pakis!", they cried, against a backdrop of Pakistani national flags, in what appeared to be an attempt at defiance rather than celebration. Certainly, they were not celebrating the "diverse" and "multicultural" society that left-leaning politicians, "progressive" Bishops etc assure us we are so fortunate to live in. Some will say, ah bless them; they are only doing so in response to the "institutional" and overt racism in British society. I am not so sure. One youth, with a rather cruel smile playing about his lips, excitedly boasted of how in ten years time, "It will be just like Pakistan around here". If he is correct, and cities like Bradford do become majority-Asian cities, let us hope that the word, "Paki" retains its infamy, rather than emerging as a threatening badge of non-British allegiance and identity.

This is a good point, one day the country may be like Bradford and as the people whos great grandarents kept voting in PC governments are being chased down and hung from lamp posts and set alite, they can thank there week grandparents for letting it get out of hand because they were to week to say NO.

Originally posted by jonsastar
one day the country may be like Bradford and as the people whos great grandarents kept voting in PC governments are being chased down and hung from lamp posts and set alite, they can thank there week grandparents for letting it get out of hand because they were to week to say NO.

Don't be giving them any ideas :D

Originally posted by JohnRebel
What I also find a bit annoying is that a perfectly normal word for merry, i.e. "gay" has now been hijacked to mean homosexual or whatever word one uses. I don't use the word 'gay' for homos but it is not possible to use it in its correct sense.
Just think of the response you would get if you said to a straight colleague "You were really gay last night".

Well unless you are about 70, I'd bet you can't remember a time when gay still meant happy, so get over it!

The English language itself is a complete hybrid of other languages with bits borrowed and changed from almost every ancient language.

I'm sure that if just one section of the population (gays for example) had decided to 'hijack' this word it would not have caught on; it's simply an evolvement within the language we speak.

Anyhoo, it's very unlikely it will revert to it's former meaning, so try using an alternative!

K x

Originally posted by Kristian
Well unless you are about 70, I'd bet you can't remember a time when gay still meant happy, so get over it!

The English language itself is a complete hybrid of other languages with bits borrowed and changed from almost every ancient language.

I'm sure that if just one section of the population (gays for example) had decided to 'hijack' this word it would not have caught on; it's simply an evolvement within the language we speak.

Anyhoo, it's very unlikely it will revert to it's former meaning, so try using an alternative!

K x

Actually, I think it still retains it former meaning, and I have heard people use it. I myself have been know to say 'I had a gay old time'! :D

Originally posted by Snook
Actually, I think it still retains it former meaning, and I have heard people use it. I myself have been know to say 'I had a gay old time'! :D
I seem to remember Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble had "a gay old time"...

...but I can't actually remember seeing that episode. ;)

Originally posted by foo_fighter
I seem to remember Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble had "a gay old time"...

...but I can't actually remember seeing that episode. ;)

I think it was in the Theme tune! I still think if you asked people what t meant, they wouldn't say happy. I know this contradicts the dictionary definition(s)

K x

Originally posted by Snook
Actually, I think it still retains it former meaning, and I have heard people use it. I myself have been know to say 'I had a gay old time'! :D

I've said that too! Were you kising boys at the time too? :D

K x

Originally posted by Kristian
I've said that too! Were you kising boys at the time too? :D

K x

Not in EVERY case, no.

Originally posted by swan
I agree, it's the same as in America where Blacks can call each other '******' but it's seen as offensive if used by Whites. It's actually a kind of double standard really.

You are absolutely right. It's usually young black men calling each other "n*gga", but I've heard girls using this term as well.

Personally, I find the word crude, vulgar and offensive in and of itself. I cringe every time I hear young people using this word to address each other. And some of them are LOUD about it.

And this is not limited just to non blacks. I had the mother of my neighbor, an older black lady tell me how distressed she was to hear young black people calling each other by this name.

I think the reasoning is, if they take what was once a derogatory term used by whites and use it themselves, it takes the "sting' out of it?

I could care less if two black guys want to stand on the corner and call each other n*gga all day, they can say whatever they want.

But they should think about this.

If a young black man walks into a job interview and says, "good morning, sir/ma'am", and another walks in and says, "wassup my n*gga?" Which one do you suppose they'll hire?

People respect you and take you more seriously when you talk like a respectable person. People can say whatever they please, but they do so at their own jeopardy.

:) Sierra

Originally posted by vidster
What suprises me is the predjudice between Pakistani's, Muslims and Indians.

Something that interests me is that the concept of Muslim is now taken on meaning as nationality. A Pakistani is from Pakistan. An Indian is from India. Both of these countries have Muslims in the populace, Pakistan as a majority, India as a minority.

This type of confusion concerns me when it comes to the hideous fallacy that is the "war on terror". I am just waiting for the day a world leader stands up and announces:

"We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia"

Originally posted by Abdul
Don't be giving them any ideas :D

What amuses you with the idea of this land being rent with a struggle between the indigenous population and insurgents from outside? Are you - I use the longer word not to offend - a Pakistani Abdul? Do you look forward to the prospect of bloody anarchy?

Originally posted by jonsastar
This is a good point, one day the country may be like Bradford and as the people whos great grandarents kept voting in PC governments are being chased down and hung from lamp posts and set alite, they can thank there week grandparents for letting it get out of hand because they were to week to say NO.

Indeed, very true. And yet our government (and not only this one but also the Tories in the past) have sold out to experimental ideals of multiculturalism that have no basis in reality. It is our responsible today to do something about this creeping destruction of Britain. The question is how to say NO?

Originally posted by JohnRebel
Do you look forward to the prospect of bloody anarchy?

Doesn't everyone? :rolleyes:

I can feel a script idea coming on...

'Doctor Strangelove 2 or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Pakis' ....

General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No, I don't think I do, sir, no.
General Jack D. Ripper: He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 100 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Muslim infiltration, Muslim indoctrination, Muslim subversion and the international Muslim conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. Your Muslim has no regard for human life. Not even his own.

Originally posted by Snook
Doesn't everyone? :rolleyes:

I can feel a script idea coming on...

'Doctor Strangelove 2 or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Pakis' ....

General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No, I don't think I do, sir, no.
General Jack D. Ripper: He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 100 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Muslim infiltration, Muslim indoctrination, Muslim subversion and the international Muslim conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. Your Muslim has no regard for human life. Not even his own.

You may make light of it Snook but that doesnt mean your not right.

Originally posted by Abdul
Don't be giving them any ideas :D

I just hope Im wrong.

Although I have seen media footage of europeans and americans hanging from bridges on fire.

I have also seen the footage shown on al jazeera of the people killed in the name of allah, three having there heads cut off and one being shot in the head, I found it very disturbing and find it hard to find any reason to cut another mans head off while he is crying for his life.

FYI

One was a yank, one was japanese, one was an iraqi officer, and I think it was the turkish man who was shot in the head.

And every one of them sickened me to my stomach.

I think if the footage I saw was shown on the nine oclock news there would be an uproar, and many peoples views would change.

Originally posted by jonsastar
You may make light of it Snook but that doesnt mean your not right.

Like they were right about communism the first time around? All I have done is replace the word 'commie' for the word 'Muslim'... worth a thought?

This debate is getting somewhat side lined here,the term paki is NOT offensive as it is an abreviation for the term pakisatani and NO amount of posturing can alter the fact
The way things are going you wont be able to say anything soon for fear of upsetting some group or other.

Originally posted by royjames
This debate is getting somewhat side lined here,the term paki is NOT offensive as it is an abreviation for the term pakisatani and NO amount of posturing can alter the fact
The way things are going you wont be able to say anything soon for fear of upsetting some group or other.

Yeah, but the term ******* isn't offensive as it describes a person whose parents were not married. Given that the term is not offensive, would you like it shouted at you in the streets?

Originally posted by royjames
This debate is getting somewhat side lined here,the term paki is NOT offensive as it is an abreviation for the term pakisatani and NO amount of posturing can alter the fact
The way things are going you wont be able to say anything soon for fear of upsetting some group or other.

I was wondering when you were going to turn up.

As for it not being offensive in your opinion - well, let me correct you, it is offensive, it's very offensive and it's wrong to say it to anyone. All it's ever been used for in the past is to show hatred and give out a feeling of loathing towards the person it is aimed at.

Go out and do an experiment and see how far you get - go out onto the streets and call 100 asian people a P***. See how many of them wish you a nice day too.

As for the website someone found earlier to show why Asians tend to call each other P***, well because in most relative asian languages the word is said in abbreviation and is not taken as offensive, if they were to write it in urdu or arabic you wouldn't understand it - like most of the young british asians here today. Thats why it's in English, written by people from those backgrounds getting the message across in the best way they know - writing it how they would speak it.

Roy, I hope you misspelled Paki-SATAN-i due to poor English too.

Originally posted by royjames
The way things are going you wont be able to say anything soon for fear of upsetting some group or other.

Well, when whatever one says seems to be a projection of ones loathing for every thing that is different to ones own parochial little dystopia, then it's not altogether surprising.

It's not the word, any more than the bullet which hurts someone, it is the intent behind it that defines its ability to hurt.

You can turn anything into a term of abuse, you silly little englander.

Paki is surely merely an abbreviation of Pakistani and ought to be less offensive that calling a Taffy ...a Taffy? It can only be offensive if it's used in the context of a comment which is in some other way abusive?
The word "******" is rooted in the history of slavery, lynchings and The Ku Klux Klan and I find it offensive if it spills from the lips of blacks or whites

I disagree totally. As said before, if it is used acurately to describe somebody who is from Pakistan then there is nothing abusive about it. Obviously if it were shouted at a random asian person, as you seem to suggest in your "experiment", then it would be as you are being completely ignorant of the individuals ethnic background.
I have used and have seen the term used in a totally non-offensive way many times with no offense caused.


Originally posted by Lestat
I was wondering when you were going to turn up.

As for it not being offensive in your opinion - well, let me correct you, it is offensive, it's very offensive and it's wrong to say it to anyone. All it's ever been used for in the past is to show hatred and give out a feeling of loathing towards the person it is aimed at.

Go out and do an experiment and see how far you get - go out onto the streets and call 100 asian people a P***. See how many of them wish you a nice day too.

As for the website someone found earlier to show why Asians tend to call each other P***, well because in most relative asian languages the word is said in abbreviation and is not taken as offensive, if they were to write it in urdu or arabic you wouldn't understand it - like most of the young british asians here today. Thats why it's in English, written by people from those backgrounds getting the message across in the best way they know - writing it how they would speak it.

Roy, I hope you misspelled Paki-SATAN-i due to poor English too.

Originally posted by royjames
This debate is getting somewhat side lined here,the term paki is NOT offensive as it is an abreviation for the term pakisatani and NO amount of posturing can alter the fact
The way things are going you wont be able to say anything soon for fear of upsetting some group or other.

How dare you tell me, in your superior way, that the word Paki isn't offensive? It may NOT be offensive to you (although I would imagine that it's a word you've used a lot more than me, and generally with racist overtones EVERY time?), but it IS offensive to me.

State your opinions, but don't state them as fact.

Originally posted by royjames
This debate is getting somewhat side lined here,the term paki is NOT offensive as it is an abreviation for the term pakisatani and NO amount of posturing can alter the fact
The way things are going you wont be able to say anything soon for fear of upsetting some group or other.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, it's a sad day when the PC brigade's interference means you can't shout 'paki' at a random stranger in the street. THE COUNTRY'S GONE TO THE DOGS!!! VOTE BNP!!! etc etc ad nauseum.

But on a serious note... the word itself has been used as a term of offence for so long that it's hard to see how it can come back into acceptable usage. Not really that much of a mystery, is it?

As for young Asian lads using it themselves, it's all about context. Ironic humour and all that.

Originally posted by BoroughGal
How dare you tell me, in your superior way, that the word Paki isn't offensive? It may NOT be offensive to you (although I would imagine that it's a word you've used a lot more than me, and generally with racist overtones EVERY time?), but it IS offensive to me.

State your opinions, but don't state them as fact.

I am not a member of the BNP (and abore their policies), I have indian and chinese friends and am absolutely not rascist in anyway whatsover. And I know for a fact that this word can be used in a non-offensive way.
If it offends you then that is your problem - not being asian I have no idea why it would though?

I see you and others are just using it as an excuse to jump on the BNP member again - but I'm sorry your wrong.

Originally posted by JohnRebel
What amuses you with the idea of this land being rent with a struggle between the indigenous population and insurgents from outside?

I won't shed too many tears over Leeds. It might even do the local South Yorkshire economy some good :thumbsup:

Originally posted by JohnRebel
Are you - I use the longer word not to offend - a Pakistani Abdul?

Maybe, maybe not. Whether I get labelled as one usually depends on who the current global enemy is :loopy:

Originally posted by JohnRebel
What amuses you with the idea of this land being rent with a struggle between the indigenous population and insurgents from outside?

Are you Alfred the Great in disguise? :confused:

The word Paki is disgusting to my ears and I cringe when I hear people say that they are going to the paki shop.

No amount of trying to say that it is simply an abbreviation can alter the fact that when it is used, it is done so in a derogatory manner.

It wouldn't seem as bad if it was accurate but most of the time they are not even from Pakistan.

Originally posted by Mo
The word Paki is disgusting to my ears and I cringe when I hear people say that they are going to the paki shop.

No amount of trying to say that it is simply an abbreviation can alter the fact that when it is used, it is done so in a derogatory manner.

It wouldn't seem as bad if it was accurate but most of the time they are not even from Pakistan.


Yes but it evidently isn't always used in a derogatory manner.
I wish people would read the thread before making nonesense statements like that.

Originally posted by Kristian
I agree with the comments that have been raised on this thread. My own personal take on the matter is that words such as Paki and ****** should only be taken as an insult if they are meant in this way.

As a gay man, I have been called all kinds of things through the years such as Poof, Queer, Gayboy, Ass Bandit etc. and it really does matter WHO is saying it, and the CONTEXT in which it is meant!

As an aside, the one thing I personally hate is when people try to go all politically correct, and start bandying around terms such as Homosexual. I just think that makes it sound like a disease!

K x

Ah Kristian, do you mind 'queen'? It is one of my favourite words because I see it as quite an affectionate term while being very descriptive (to me anyway).

I have an old school friend who I still keep in touch with and on meeting I always address him as 'me old queen'. He's never offended but would you be as a stranger to me?

Originally posted by Mo
Ah Kristian, do you mind 'queen'? It is one of my favourite words because I see it as quite an affectionate term while being very descriptive (to me anyway).

I have an old school friend who I still keep in touch with and on meeting I always address him as 'me old queen'. He's never offended but would you be as a stranger to me?

I would be much more offended by the use of 'old' before 'queen'!
Seriously, if this was the first thing you had ever said to me, I'd probably think you were a bit odd, but not offended.

As I said before, it's much more about the spirit in which it is said, than the words that are used (for me anyway)

In some gay circles now, the word 'gay' is considered to be an insult, and 'queer' is preferred. :loopy:

K x

Originally posted by Abdul
Maybe, maybe not. Whether I get labelled as one usually depends on who the current global enemy is :loopy:
Have you thought of changing your name to Wayne, Abdul?
Could save you a load of grief I suspect!;)

Originally posted by Kristian
I would be much more offended by the use of 'old' before 'queen'!
Seriously, if this was the first thing you had ever said to me, I'd probably think you were a bit odd, but not offended.

As I said before, it's much more about the spirit in which it is said, than the words that are used (for me anyway)

In some gay circles now, the word 'gay' is considered to be an insult, and 'queer' is preferred. :loopy:

K x

I hate "queer" and "gay", me and my mates call each other "puff", as in "Oi, you big puff".

Greenback makes a reasonable point re the context in which the word is used, i.e, amongst young, British Asians. Perhaps it is used ironically sometimes, as are "puff" and "******". However, the youths I referred to in my previous posting did not appear to be engaging in ironic behaviour at all. They used the term in a defiant and threatening way, giving Darcus Howe and his film crew good reason to make haste. Sometimes these days, the term can be used by a minority of British Asian youths as a badge of separateness, or even to express racial enmity.

Greenback, I do genuinely respect your views. They are always elegantly expressed, and pertinent. However, you do seem to see the "good" side of multiculturalism etc. You and I seem to live in the same country, but yet a different country. You feel that ethnic conflict is being stirred by the media and politicians, and have said so on a few occasions. I agree, but I can also see and hear the massive resentment towards multiculturalism, further large-scale immigration on behalf of the majority population. The sharp increase in violence from [not towards] British Asian youths, particularly in the Greater Manchester area, is a cause of great concern. The adoption of the term "Paki" by a minority is not always a case of ironic humour. It is sometimes a sad reflection of people [who feel that] they have no stake in British culture, or , in some cases, a sinister development of anti-white sentiments.

Originally posted by timo
Greenback makes a reasonable point re the context in which the word is used, i.e, amongst young, British Asians. Perhaps it is used ironically sometimes, as are "puff" and "******". However, the youths I referred to in my previous posting did not appear to be engaging in ironic behaviour at all. They used the term in a defiant and threatening way, giving Darcus Howe and his film crew good reason to make haste. Sometimes these days, the term can be used by a minority of British Asian youths as a badge of separateness, or even to express racial enmity.

I know what you mean - once the frivolity of using what were once terms of abuse has worn off, they can conceivably once again become weapons. The American comedian Chris Rock performed a memorable routine describing the difference between "black people" and "niggers" - well worth Googling.

Greenback, I do genuinely respect your views. They are always elegantly expressed, and pertinent. However, you do seem to see the "good" side of multiculturalism etc. You and I seem to live in the same country, but yet a different country. You feel that ethnic conflict is being stirred by the media and politicians, and have said so on a few occasions. I agree, but I can also see and hear the massive resentment towards multiculturalism, further large-scale immigration on behalf of the majority population. The sharp increase in violence from [not towards] British Asian youths, particularly in the Greater Manchester area, is a cause of great concern. The adoption of the term "Paki" by a minority is not always a case of ironic humour. It is sometimes a sad reflection of people [who feel that] they have no stake in British culture, or , in some cases, a sinister development of anti-white sentiments.

I'm blushing now :)

Basically, having always lived in areas with a large population of ethnic minorities, I've never come across anything that even closely resembles the apocalyptic vision propogated by some commentators. Some groups keep themselves to themselves, sure. But it tends to be the older members, those who aren't quite as "at home" here. Assimilation and integration takes time - the 1940s weren't that long ago. But it's an organic process, and one that's happening right now.

Hopefully it won't mean the loss of what makes other cultures special. I've always loved living in a multicultural society; the beautiful saris, that fabulous West Indian lilt, the music, the curries, etc etc. All on our doorsteps. That's a fantastic thing.

As for Oldham, Burnely, Bradford: for me, the connection is not about the numbers of ethnic minorities who populate these parts of the country, but the economic conditions the entire communities are faced with. Poor people often get frustrated with the system that they feel has wronged them, whatever colour or religion they happen to be (that's not a justification of the riots, by the way). Give everyone an equal access to improve their lot, and many of the problems described will start to disappear.

Greenback,
Thanks for your, as always, thoughtful reply. You are endearingly optimistic! I'll check out the Chris Rock stuff.

Someone introduced me as being a Yorkie once because i was in a different county, is there such a thing a countyist? i would annoy me if thats all anyone every referred to us lot from yorkshire as.

Someone introduced me as being a Yorkie once because i was in a different county, is there such a thing a countyist? i would annoy me if thats all anyone every referred to us lot from yorkshire as.

I think there is such a thing as county-ism. I was at a wedding reception in Bristol a couple of months ago and got talking to a couple from London. The guy from the couple said to me "You must be from the better part of Yorkshire - after all, you are managing to speak in full sentences." He wasn't joking.

Also, Kristian is right when he says it depends on WHO is using certain words as to whether or not they are perceived as racist/homophobic/whatever. For example, I don't mind my mates or fellow gay people calling me 'gay', 'arse bandit', 'queer' etc, as I know it's meant in good humour. However, if I happened to be walking down the street and someone I don't know called me something along those lines I wouldn't be impressed, and they'd be likely to get a few choice words in return.

Leddi,
I am fairly sure that "countyism" is not officially recognised, but give the humourless, self-righteous prigs of the "Race Relations" industry time, and they will doubtless recognise it as an "issue"...

I am a [very proud] Yorkshireman living in exile on the wrong side of the Pennines. My friends in Southport, have on occasion, drawn attention to my county origins and the rivalry between Yorkshire/Lancashire. This is always in good humour, as is my response that they are really "jumped-up Scousers". I think most county rivalry is in jest especially the Yorkshire/Lancashire rivalry. However, certain counties do have strong, stereotypical images, for example, the 'positive' Yorkshire image of "grit" [in other words, courage and fortitude], candour [plain speaking without fear or favour], and trustworthiness; and the 'negative' image of boorishness, meanness with money etc.

I think , on the whole, Yorkshire has a 'positive' image on the whole. Judging from surveys re accents, yorkshire accents are amongst the most popular nation-wide, and generally associated with trustworthiness [hence the Yorkshire- accented voice-overs for so many tv ads], and solid dependability. Liverpudlians, in contrast, appear to be deeply unpopular.

Sorry for going off the thread a little here, but Leddi raised a good point.

Originally posted by timo
I think , on the whole, Yorkshire has a 'positive' image on the whole. Judging from surveys re accents, yorkshire accents are amongst the most popular nation-wide, and generally associated with trustworthiness [hence the Yorkshire- accented voice-overs for so many tv ads], and solid dependability. Liverpudlians, in contrast, appear to be deeply unpopular.


It's the way Yorkshire is seen on TV as James Herriot, Last Of The Summer Wine and Emmerdale, all outdoorsey and healthy country air, sheep and drystone walls etc. that gives us a good image whereas Manchester and Liverpool are seen as dirty innercity places that have no countryside and everyone is a misserable crook.

Originally posted by nick2
It's the way Yorkshire is seen on TV as James Herriot, Last Of The Summer Wine and Emmerdale, all outdoorsey and healthy country air, sheep and drystone walls etc. that gives us a good image whereas Manchester and Liverpool are seen as dirty innercity places that have no countryside and everyone is a misserable crook.

That might be the stereotypical view of somebody from yorkshire, but it isn't accurate of my perception of the places in question. Nor is it accurate of a londoners perception if my friends and family down there are anything to go by.
They were aghast when I said I was moving to yorkshire, and then yes the James Herriot view came to the fore when one person asked if I had given up on IT to become a "thick pig farmer".

Originally posted by kilauea
when I said I was moving to yorkshire, and then yes the James Herriot view came to the fore when one person asked if I had given up on IT to become a "thick pig farmer".
I hope you put 'em straight, Leicestershire is where the "thick pig farmers" are from, round here we're mostly "thick sheep farmers".

;)

Originally posted by foo_fighter
I hope you put 'em straight, Leicestershire is where the "thick pig farmers" are from, round here we're mostly "thick sheep farmers".

;)

I'm not sure whether they would know the difference.....

can anyone answer this for me please?

Go to australia and call a guy "aussie" its fine
go to england call a guy a "brit" its fine
go to scotland call a guy a "scot" its fine
mention the word "paki" and it suddenly becomes a race issue.

Aussie is short for "australian" someone from australia
Brit is short for "british" someone from england
Scot is short fo "scottish" someone from scotland
paki is short for "pakistani" someone from pakistan

These are all names used commonly to identify a persons place of origin not some racist comment,am i right?

If someone came up to me and called me a "brit" i would take it as a compliment.
I wouldn't be offended in the slightest.

i tried arguing that ages ago, unfortunately some people prefer to hide such "offensive" words under the carpet rather than take them back from the racists.
again i shall say........its how you say it thats racist not the word

If you serach you will find it has been covered many times. The general gist of the argument is that 'paki' is frequently used with the intention being derogatory and racist term.

It’s the historic context in which it has been used that is the issue here. There is as much weight and meaning behind how you say something as to what you are saying.

Even if they call themselves Pakis (as in East is East?)

technically yeah but unlike the other words, the word paki has been used for a long time as a derogatory racist term/insult, therefore has racist connotations

words can be reclaimed, i know some pakistani folks who call themselves pakis, bit like the word ****** is sometimes used in hip hop culture, or like the word queer was reclaimed by gays

Its all in the delivery though isn't?
the term paki is often delivered in an agressive manner,wheras brit,aussie ect isn't..........term paki is not offensive its an abbreviation,it the way its delivered thats deemed offensive.

I'm not racist,if i call some one a scott or an aussie does this mean i dont like scottish or australian?

I suppose the key would be to ask a representative sample of folk of Pakistani origin and ask if they mind being referred to as 'Pakis'.

Historically, the word has been used in a negative context, though I suppose some might argue that that's changing and they certainly wouldn't wish to offend anyone by using the term...

Another issue is that 'Paki' does tend to get applied to people who don't hail from Pakistan.

So if i called you a british **** WOULD YOU REALLY BE OFFENDED/

Am I right in thinking that about a year ago a Muslim chap started a fashion company called Pak1. He had planned to do it with a comical twist in the same way Stephen Marks has made French Connection **** and traded off that.

I know loads of pakistani's and they love to be refferd to as a "paki" and they take it in very good humour.

Am I right in thinking that about a year ago a Muslim chap started a fashion company called Pak1. He had planned to do it with a comical twist in the same way Stephen Marks has made French Connection **** and traded off that.
Yes you are right, from what I remember he was trying to 'reclaim' the word as mentioned in previous posts. From what I remember though it caused him a lot of problems in the Pakistani community as it was seen to be an offensive word. News article here (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=14009194&method=full&siteid=50143) though it's the Daily Mirror so I use news very loosely.

So if i called you a british **** WOULD YOU REALLY BE OFFENDED/

It depends if I knew you or not, and what '****' actually was. :)

'Brit' should only be used for people from Britain - there's no real short form for English, and if someone called me 'Taff' (I'm half Welsh) I wouldn't care most of the time.

As has been pointed out, it's context.

For me it's rarely an issue - I know people from all over the place and rarely feel teh need to describe them by race or country of origin. If it's people I know, I tend to use their names, and if it's people I don't know, it's 'the bloke over there'. :)

Apart from context, don't people think about who they are talking to ? i.e. do you know this person inside out ? Are you a friend of theirs ? If you do, then you may also know what they find offensive.

I remember talking to a friend of mine who is also chinese, but she's from Australia. She hates being labelled as weird, or the fact that British people here cannot accept her as an Australian because of her ethnicity. I told her why, plus her accent does not come across as strong Australian as portrayed by the British media. i.e. Neighbours, or Crocodile Dundee. Her English sounds more Malaysian, than it does Australia, if truth be told. Then she told me about her roots, and also the fact that in Sydney, it's more multicultural than other cities. I was like..."okay"... I didn't know that.

It depends if I knew you or not, and what '****' actually was. :)

'Brit' should only be used for people from Britain - there's no real short form for English, and if someone called me 'Taff' (I'm half Welsh) I wouldn't care most of the time.

As has been pointed out, it's context.

For me it's rarely an issue - I know people from all over the place and rarely feel teh need to describe them by race or country of origin. If it's people I know, I tend to use their names, and if it's people I don't know, it's 'the bloke over there'. :)

I know what your saying but my point is mention the word "paki" and we all suddenly run for cover.
Someone had their thread removed earlier because they mentioned the word "Paki"

I've been called a "redneck" which is a term used in a racist way by asians and to be honest it doesn't bother me in the slightest,because at the end of the day i'm proud of who i am and where i'm from.

...at the end of the day i'm proud of who i am and where i'm from.
That's not really the issue though, is it? I'm sure Pakistanis are proud of where they come from too. It's just that the word 'Paki' has been used as a term of abuse for so long, that it's acquired a negative connotation in a way in which 'Brit', 'Scot' or 'Aussie' hasn't, and one which will be difficult to shake.

A scottish aquaintance couldn't contain his anger when an Indian friend of mine told him that he couldn't understand his Irish accent :hihi:
Asians in some cases third may feel agrieved when refered to as a paki by someone who may simply wish to decribe his skin colour. Even worse when he may be of Indian origin and want to protray the difference. As a joke, most people can take a joke whatever their skin colour without any teachings from us on here.

I don't know how this topic suddenly reappeared (seemed a bit random).

But its seems most are all in agreement, that's how it's put in context.

I've been called 'honky white trash' when out with Pakistani friends of mine, am I insulted? no.
But if I were walking the streets alone and some Pakinstanis came up to me and shouted 'oi, honky white trash!', I would guess, that they're not up for poppin' out for a beer. (reverse that paragraph, to save me typing it, and it works both ways)

*******, puff, gay, queen, paki, taff, yank, honky, and possibly 'chink' (maybe not actually) could all be used in the same context, and not seem insulting between friends.

Some words that wouldn't fall in that catagory in todays terms IMO, would be 'wog' and '******', which however much I knew someone, would never ever use.

ash:)

A scottish aquaintance couldn't contain his anger when an Indian friend of mine told him that he couldn't understand his Irish accent :hihi:
Asians in some cases third may feel agrieved when refered to as a paki by someone who may simply wish to decribe his skin colour. Even worse when he may be of Indian origin and want to protray the difference. As a joke, most people can take a joke whatever their skin colour without any teachings from us on here.

I can imagine being amused if someone confused my Scottish accent for Irish, but not angry, especially if English wasn't the first language of the person I was talking to. I've been asked if I'm a Geordie, and if I'm South African? I don't see that as a cause for anger, just an explanation.

I'm with the majority on here - the word Paki has been used in a pejorative and racist manner too often for many of us to be comfortable with its use.

All the graffiti round our way says 'Pakiz innit' and 'Pakiz rool' so it seems to have been reappropriated.

I would just like to add my two penn'orth to this one ; my view is in line with those who have said, correctly in my view, that it's a great deal to do with context and intent.
Example - if someone I didn't know, (or did know ad knew that they disliked me) were to approach me and call me 'f***pig' I would be shocked and offended. However if my older brother were to phone me and say ''Hiya f***pig, how's it going?' I wouldn't turn a hair.

its not a racist word at all..

like other posts they call themselves this name, if they take it the wrong way then so be it.. but its not taken the wrong way whent hey call it about themselves or even creat websites with packie.com etc..

i find it funny when they use to call me white honky, white meat etc when i was at school.. for god sake its only a word..

sticks and stones my break your bones BUT NAMES WILL NEVER HURT ME..

HOW TRUE

If you remember, When the Aussies Promoted the Cricket world cup the advertisement on tv was, "they are coming, The Poms, The Windies, The Pakis"........etc...etc......and not one complaint......from anyone


I know this because there was a simular debate on Radio 5 live.

I have to agree with the orig post here. SCotish-scots, British-Brits, Australians-Ozzys pakistani-Paki, chinease-Chinks,

It's just a way of shortening things, I personally have and never would use these words to be offensive, but say if someone did, I don't undertsand how they would find it offensive, If someone called me a brit, i would be proud and say yes i am. How come this isn't the case with some of the above?

:cool:

A mate of mine called Stan whos pakistani is well known now as 'Paki Stan'

I think it all in the context you use it I have pakistani mates i call em pakis. They dont mind. Even one of the guys girlfriends calls her bloke a paki and she is english he dont mind. Lads at work call each other c**** and Tw** and its acceptable. Let an unknown person say any of the above and they would probably get a slap! its as easy as that!! init?:hihi:

I don't know how this topic suddenly reappeared (seemed a bit random).



it reappeared cos somebody posted a thread on the same subject so the mods have stuck both together

The film East is East was a classic for the use of the word.

I am intrigued as to why the word Paki is classed as racist.

Paki is surely abbreviated for Pakistani as Brit is for British, as Scot is for Scottish so who decided that Paki, being abbreviated as Pakistani is a racist remark?

That in itslef is surely racist implying that there is something bad about being Pakistani.

Can anyone explain?

PLEASE DO NOT DETRACT AND USE THIS THREAD TO PASS RACIAL COMMENTS - I AM NOT RACIST, BUT AM INTRIGUED AS TO THE REASONINGS BEHIND THIS, particularly as Pakistanis whom we have known refer to Paki shops etc.

The PC Brigade don't like it, apparently it's not Politically Correct :loopy:

ROFLMAO! The PC Brigade needs to get knotted, shut up, and get a friggin' life IMO! No one cares!

Star24: I don't think so. Not long ago, some chinese comedians created a programme on Channel 4, called "The Missing Chink". It went live, but a lot of people made complaints. Obviously, not everyone feels that they get the jokes portrayed, and not everyone feels that such terms can be 'claimed'.

About the ethnic group using the same derogatory terms, or slang terms to reclaim their own identity. I think, this is an individual preference. I have young cousins who uses the word chink between themselves a lot, but finds it SO offensive, when it is from people that they don't even know. I watch them behave like that, and they do find it offensive. Yet, for me, I don't appreciate someone using such terms. (I've asked myself this Q a lot on other forums to find out really why I find such terms horrifying.) My conclusion is that, I cannot shake away associations that I had from childhood of such terms and usage.

Yes, as an adult, I may think, "oh, who gives a darn", and walk on by. Or tolerate it, but you would not find me embracing it, and claiming it to be some kind of identity, or using it.

I think, at the end of the day, its being respectful to individuals. If you are respectful to them, and be a little bit formal. Others will do the same to you.

<snip> I have young cousins who uses the word chink between themselves a lot, but finds it SO offensive, when it is from people that they don't even know.
<snip>

You're right, as my post #97 pointed out, I put 'chink' in the catagory of in between acceptable in some cases and not at all, but it's probably in the present day unacceptable. The only time time I ever use this term, is when I might say 'fancy a chinky' but it's only used as shortened term for fancy a chinese meal, but not used in any derogatory meaning.

The PC Brigade don't like it, apparently it's not Politically Correct :loopy:

ROFLMAO! The PC Brigade needs to get knotted, shut up, and get a friggin' life IMO! No one cares!
I think you'll find that more than the 'PC brigade' care. And you need to stop being so offensive in every post you make in response to something you don't agree with :roll: .

The PC Brigade don't like it, apparently it's not Politically Correct :loopy:

ROFLMAO! The PC Brigade needs to get knotted, shut up, and get a friggin' life IMO! No one cares!
And the PI Brigade love it, they use it to describe anyone with slightly darker skin than their own.

its not a racist word at all..



I think the fact that this thread has gone on for so long suggests that many people think it is, Therefore it makes no sense to say its not racist "at all"

"Spastic" is a word with a particular meaning and as a word in itself is not offensive. Now try saying it to a wheelchair user.

Context is everything and no one could convince me that "Paki" is not a racist insult most times it is used.

Context is everything and no one could convince me that "Paki" is not a racist insult most times it is used.

I have to agree, it's a term used by ignorant people.

I believe that to change words like paki and chink from simply a description of a persons ethnic origin/nationality into a racist insult requires the addition of an additional adjective/s... normally a swear word/s.

Question - Is it less insulting to call someone a ****ing Pakistani than it is to called them a ****ing paki?

IMO it is only when other words are used (and sometimes tone) to imply that there is something wrong with being a paki, chink, whitey or brit that it becomes racist/offensive. I think most of us can tell when an insult is intended and that ou can't simply label use of such words as automatically racist... it's not a black or white issue!

its not a racist word at all..

like other posts they call themselves this name, if they take it the wrong way then so be it.. but its not taken the wrong way whent hey call it about themselves or even creat websites with packie.com etc..

i find it funny when they use to call me white honky, white meat etc when i was at school.. for god sake its only a word..

sticks and stones my break your bones BUT NAMES WILL NEVER HURT ME..HOW TRUE


....and it was sticks and stones since!! :hihi:

I am intrigued as to why the word Paki is classed as racist.


I am amazed any word can be classed as racist, all words are are "noise"

I believe that to change words like paki and chink from simply a description of a persons ethnic origin/nationality into a racist insult requires the addition of an additional adjective/s... normally a swear word/s.

Question - Is it less insulting to call someone a ****ing Pakistani than it is to called them a ****ing paki?

IMO it is only when other words are used (and sometimes tone) to imply that there is something wrong with being a paki, chink, whitey or brit that it becomes racist/offensive. I think most of us can tell when an insult is intended and that ou can't simply label use of such words as automatically racist... it's not a black or white issue!
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how you see it. Because it is down to the person on the receiving end, how they interpret it. (I think BoroughGirl already mentioned this earlier on in this whole merged thread.) I mean, what if the person from Pakistan have *never* heard of the word 'Paki' before in his life ? Are you going to debate the meaning to him, and to his face, and thinks that he is in the wrong for taking offence ?? :confused:

Also, what if it so happens that your voice was a little bit loud, or comes across as aggressive because you encountered some problems previously during the day, and hence you can't control your voice to sound as pleasant as you'd normally be ?

That is the thing, I don't think many can indeed pinpoint when it is an insult. Especially if you don't know the literal usage of the word, OR the reason to the person saying it.

There are actually many reasons to why words are derogatory. I think you will find that the word 'gwai lo' is offensive in the UK, but not in HK. Or the word 'Oriental' being more offensive in the US, than the word 'Asian'. :rolleyes:
Anyway, here's a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

Sometimes it is not about the literal definition of the word itself, but the social interaction and interpretation. It's more body language, reasons, and all the rest. I've called friends 'git' before. Some finds it an endearing term, others are rightly offended and have written me off as a friend ! So go figure. :confused: I used to watch that Alf Garnett programme as a kid, and my sister and I have adopted this nickname for ourselves. So, when I do use it, I don't mean it in its literal sense, but more endearing, but I take it that, some have different association to the word, and I'm not going to complain about it. They do have a right.

I've been called a paki twice in my whole life.

The first at the young age of 7 at school during lunch. I was sat at a table with my so-called friends when when of the boys suddenly came out with "who on this table is a paki?". Seeing as I was the only brown person sat there, he was refering to me. I mentioned it to my parents and in less than a week I was transfered to a private school near by.

Second time was last year when I was coming out of Tescos. I had been to the temple that day and had the red mark on the centre of my forehead (which I had forgotten about). Some rough looking young chaps muttered "stupid pakis" walking past me. I actually found this amusing because it just showed their ignorance. Seeing as most pakistanis are muslim (especially in this country), why would one show the "mark" of a hindu.

The term is mostly used in ignorance. I think a lot of people who use the term in an offensive way probably don't even know where it comes from and don't realise that it doesn't mean "brown person".

Why are we boverd anyway.....ime not boverd

Near to where I live is a store called HP foodstores (after the names of the brothers who founded it, after being ousted from Uganda or somewhere).
It is run by the friendliest, nicest family of Hindus you could hope to meet.
It is known universally, not as HP, but as 'Happy Paki' :hihi:
There is no nastyness in this, it is just the silly english sense of humour

I must admit, I chuckled at that phrase too. :hihi: I suppose it's the cheekiness of using it and the play on words.

However, I wouldn't dream of using the term myself. :P
HC take-away ?
HB Pub ?
Hm.... :hihi:

Not "Paki" but my mate is Chinese and he hates it when we are talking with him and we say somthing like, "I'm going to have a Chinese tonight." He says "Why don't you just say the word you'd use if I wasn't here, a Chinki." He says he only feels offended when we try to cover up our natural talk.

The PC Brigade don't like it, apparently it's not Politically Correct :loopy:

ROFLMAO! The PC Brigade needs to get knotted, shut up, and get a friggin' life IMO! No one cares!

Neither is using a word like 'retarded' for people with mental health issues or learning difficulties, or 'spastic' for those who have physical disabilities 'politically correct'! Do you honestly think that is the only reason why intelligent people don't use these terms or do you think its because people who are different, by way of disability, ethnicity or anything else 'don't care' how they are described? :rant:

If I can wander back to the original question for a sec, I'd like to expand on the answer that one or two people have given.

Pakistan was formed in 1947 as a Muslim state, and was formally part of India. This followed a period of extremely bloody civil unrest, and most Indian muslims went to live there. It follows therefor that calling an Indian person 'Paki' is not so much a racist act, but a religious one!

Now you can see why it could be far more insulting than you previously thought?

Further info can be found here http://www.english.emory.edu/Bahri/Part.html
or watch the film 'Ghandi', which covers the subject quite well.

The work "Paki" means purity, holy in urdu/persian. So Pakistan means Land of the Pure as "Stan" means Land of ... as in Afghanistan - Land of the Afghans, Hindustan - Land of the Hindus, Tajakistan - Land of the Tajiks and so on.

But as most people dont know the true meaning of Paki they use it as an insult. And depending on the situation can be laughed off or made into an issue.

Stood alone the word Paki isn't an insult. What you have to remember is when it's followed by another word for someone who is illegitimate that it becomes racist.

Well said.

Its usually prefixed with something like 'Oi, you F***ing Paki B*****d'.

If I know the parents of my boss are not married, doesnt mean its okay for me to go in Monday morning and say, 'Morning you little *******'. :D

I have to agree with the orig post here. SCotish-scots, British-Brits, Australians-Ozzys pakistani-Paki, chinease-Chinks,

It's just a way of shortening things, I personally have and never would use these words to be offensive, but say if someone did, I don't undertsand how they would find it offensive, If someone called me a brit, i would be proud and say yes i am. How come this isn't the case with some of the above?

:cool:

I guess if the work Paki is just used as a shorthand for Pakistani then is it really a problem. I tend to agree with Star24 here. The problem though is if it is applied in a deliberately derogatory manner which it can be. Often it is used to describe people other than Pakistanis and in that case there would appear to be racist connotation to it.

Not "Paki" but my mate is Chinese and he hates it when we are talking with him and we say somthing like, "I'm going to have a Chinese tonight." He says "Why don't you just say the word you'd use if I wasn't here, a Chinki." He says he only feels offended when we try to cover up our natural talk.

I say I am going for a "Ming Lung" , named after the less than salubrious eating establishment on Sharrowvale Road.

R-lass will phone our local takaway & the first question she asks is "can I order a Chinese to be delivered?"

They know what she's rabbiting on about without a) taking offence or b) dropping off a Triad gang member on the doorstep :D

Not "Paki" but my mate is Chinese and he hates it when we are talking with him and we say somthing like, "I'm going to have a Chinese tonight." He says "Why don't you just say the word you'd use if I wasn't here, a Chinki." He says he only feels offended when we try to cover up our natural talk.

I've never said a "chinki", I've always said "A chinese", like I say "an Italian" or "an Indian"

I've never said a "chinki", I've always said "A chinese", like I say "an Italian" or "an Indian"

Are you into cannibalism or something? :hihi:

Would anybody take offence at the full english breakfast I'm cooking for dinner?

Would anybody take offence at the full english breakfast I'm cooking for dinner?

They might question you timeing.:hihi:

The work "Paki" means purity, holy in urdu/persian. So Pakistan means Land of the Pure as "Stan" means Land of ... as in Afghanistan - Land of the Afghans, Hindustan - Land of the Hindus, Tajakistan - Land of the Tajiks and so on.

But as most people dont know the true meaning of Paki they use it as an insult. And depending on the situation can be laughed off or made into an issue.

i use the work Packi, but not to be offensive. it's howwe speak in the UK, its asians who have th problem wih it, but its ok for asians to call each other packies?? i dont understand are we not good enough to use that word? cos were christian

Seriously, it is not necessarily a word i would use myself but neither would I judge someone else (especially an older person) for using it when I knew perfectly well there was no offence meant.

i use the work Packi, but not to be offensive. it's howwe speak in the UK, its asians who have th problem wih it, but its ok for asians to call each other packies?? i dont understand are we not good enough to use that word? cos were christian

I'm english and yorkshire born and bead and never had a reason to use the word. Think often its down to copying yr mates word choices and not using your own common sense. Think most people realise it offensive and choose not to use it, although i really don't mind being called a 'dee daa' as I'm proud of my heritage :)

They might question you timeing.:hihi:

An yes my timing my be off but honestly, when isn't a good time for a full english?

with brown sauce or red sauce? :heyhey:

with brown sauce or red sauce? :heyhey:

Relish!!! an a bit of brown :)

Relish!!! an a bit of brown :)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

It wo that good i could eat it agen :) *licks lips*

:o I bet you say that to all the boys?



:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

:o I bet you say that to all the boys?



:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Crikey!!!!! yes. yes i do :-P

i use the work Packi, but not to be offensive. it's howwe speak in the UK, its asians who have th problem wih it, but its ok for asians to call each other packies?? i dont understand are we not good enough to use that word? cos were christian

no, blade, I've got to disagree with you completely on that one.

it's "NOT" how we speak in the UK, it's how a minority speak, and the "asians" who are offended by it, are the ones who it tensds to be directed at, and usually not in a friendly manner.

It's also not a matter of "not being good enough" to use the word, or because we are "christian" it's a matter of the word being offensive, and used in an offensive manner.

It boils down to the same thing as someone with a learning disability being called a "Retard" or "mongol" .... or me, as somoene who has mobility problems being referred to as a "crip" or a "spazz":- I take exception to those phrases being used at me/ around me, I find them demeaning, insulting, derogatory and offensive.

I'd also like to point out that they don't speak to me or about me with the respect I deserve as another human being.

...It boils down to the same thing as someone with a learning disability being called a "Retard" or "mongol" .... or me, as somoene who has mobility problems being referred to as a "crip" or a "spazz":- I take exception to those phrases being used at me/ around me, I find them demeaning, insulting, derogatory and offensive.

I'd also like to point out that they don't speak to me or about me with the respect I deserve as another human being.

I had a friend who would refer to himself as a 'spaz' or 'cripple' in order to reclaim the meaning, if he uses it for himself it tends to hold less meaning in an offensive context. I think this is similar to some Asains and blacks 're-claiming' the offensive word and therefore desensitizing its impact,

I had a friend who would refer to himself as a 'spaz' or 'cripple' in order to reclaim the meaning, if he uses it for himself it tends to hold less meaning in an offensive context. I think this is similar to some Asains and blacks 're-claiming' the offensive word and therefore desensitizing its impact,

but whether or not folk try to claim it back, if someone is using the phrase in an insulting, agressive or derogatory manner, it still has a negative impact.

The word maybe be reclaimed at some point in the future. But currently it has a lot of negative connotations. And of course, one obvious reason as to how it differs from the terms 'Brit' or 'Aussie' is that it refers to anyone of middle-eastern or subcontinent origin, not just Pakistanis.

Look, it's not something you'll go to prison for if you use it in casual conversation. But it's an unnecessary term which is understandably seen as offensive by some people, so it's no-one's fault but your own if you get called on it.

btw, my post was referring to the term 'paki', not what schizodoor just posted. Sorry.

I had a friend who would refer to himself as a 'spaz' or 'cripple' in order to reclaim the meaning, if he uses it for himself it tends to hold less meaning in an offensive context. I think this is similar to some Asains and blacks 're-claiming' the offensive word and therefore desensitizing its impact,It's been done before with '******', and particularly 'queer'. It's a positive thing, I think, but you'll still not get away with using '******' in common speech.

but whether or not folk try to claim it back, if someone is using the phrase in an insulting, agressive or derogatory manner, it still has a negative impact.

Its a good way to teach younger people who are in the firing line from such awful slurs to learn to deal with them and claim strength from the desensitisation of it. If these words cease to have impact they will eventually die out. Its not right but to ban these words would only give voice to those who wish to offend by their defending of there right to free speech. It takes time but eventually common sense will out breed bigotry, after all how many people find 'isms' an attractive or redeeming character in a person?

Its a good way to teach younger people who are in the firing line from such awful slurs to learn to deal with them and claim strength from the desensitisation of it. If these words cease to have impact they will eventually die out. Its not right but to ban these words would only give voice to those who wish to offend by their defending of there right to free speech. It takes time but eventually common sense will out breed bigotry, after all how many people find 'isms' an attractive or redeeming character in a person?

you mean character building in the same way as shoving a non-swimmer into the deep end of a swimming pool teaches them to swim...?

you mean character building in the same way as shoving a non-swimmer into the deep end of a swimming pool teaches them to swim...?To be fair to schizo, I think she has a point (although not so much for disabled kids, where identity isn't as well established as in race or sexuality issues). The origins of racial identity amongst blacks came about through solidarity against oppression. Those with skin that was just a little off-white also started assuming the black identity, not because they necessarily had much in common with those from an all Afro-Caribbean background, but because they were treated just the same as all black people were.

it's been appropriated as a derogatory term - this is how langugae works - it is appropriated and a single word can have several very different meanings due to how its been appropriated, one meaning usually being in the ascendency.

you mean character building in the same way as shoving a non-swimmer into the deep end of a swimming pool teaches them to swim...?

God no!! i didn't mean character building at all! i meant an ability to hear any abuse and be able to rise above it knowing that word or phrase isn't personnel to you. My son has a terrible stammer and because every possible word for stammer has been used here at home in a context of fun, love and understanding, when he has come across people laughing at him or pointing out the fact he has trouble speaking (as if he didn't know!) he is un phased and quite capable of dealing with the emotions that causes.

We can't coddle people to protect them from words, we can only give them words and coping strategies in order to deal with the effect those words can cause.

it's been appropriated as a derogatory term - this is how langugae works - it is appropriated and a single word can have several very different meanings due to how its been appropriated, one meaning usually being in the ascendency.That's about as good an explanation as I've seen.

kinda like the n word. Black people can call themselves ni****. Pakistanis can call themselves p***.

I had a friend who would refer to himself as a 'spaz' or 'cripple' in order to reclaim the meaning, if he uses it for himself it tends to hold less meaning in an offensive context. I think this is similar to some Asains and blacks 're-claiming' the offensive word and therefore desensitizing its impact,

Fully agree with your comments and Plain Talkers. However, the people who make these sort of remarks don't count as far as I'm concerned, they are in themselves an underclass of their own making there's none so blind as those who will not see - ergo what they say is not worthy of any intelligent consideration

Fully agree with your comments and Plain Talkers. However, the people who make these sort of remarks don't count as far as I'm concerned, they are in themselves an underclass of their own making there's none so blind as those who will not see - ergo what they say is not worthy of any intelligent consideration

The bigoted will eventually be out bred by the more accepting and ignoring attention seeking and reaction provoking phraseology will eventually eradicate it.

Can someone explain to me why it is ok for them to call themselves Paki's but everybody else cannot?

http://www.paki.com
Hello I am pakistani, and I don't call it to myself or other people of pakistani origins. As many people have already stated when it was first used it was used as a insulting rascist way unlike the use of the word, 'brit or scotts'. Also many people use the term 'paki' for all people of souht asian origin regardless of whether they might be indians/bangledeshis etc. Anyway I don't like the term at all

Approximately 100% of people who coin the phrase "Paki" use it as a term of abuse. To then compare it with the term "Scot" puts them in the category of "I'm not a racist but..."

Of course it's a racist term, everyone who uses it knows.

Because people I've heard using it precede it with the word "f*cking" and follow it with "b*st*rd".

It is used as an insult. End of.

paki-stani, Istanis would be better.
Nothing wrong with the word

paki-stani, Istanis would be better.
Nothing wrong with the word
Racist and obviously proud of it.

It Is A Used As A Rasist Term!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Er Like As If You Did Not Know!

Racist and obviously proud of it.

WELL YOU A SHALLOW, SAD , IGNORANT, AND HAVE PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE THAT SAP THE LIFE OUT OF YOU!! HAPPY DAYS FOR YOU!

paki is used when pakistani should be.
when used in a racist term "istani" would be a better term as it encompasses more groups.

when used in a racist term "istani" would be a better term as it encompasses more groups.'Inclusive' racism. What a fascinating concept.

paki is used when pakistani should be.
when used in a racist term "istani" would be a better term as it encompasses more groups.
So in your world what groups are encompassed in the term 'istani' and why?

in this world any country ending in "istan", its our language

Racist and obviously proud of it.

i fail to see how the word "pakistani" is racist

If there was a white pop group, a very popular one called PACKY or PACKY PACK, the bad connotation would disappear

in this world any country ending in "istan", its our language
That's just moronic and you're wrong it's not our language that you're dealling with 'stan' is a suffix which means the equivalent of 'land of' so Afghanistan for example means "Land of the Afghani's" as such calling people 'istanis' is as dumb as calling the Scot's and Irish 'Landis'.

That's just moronic and you're wrong it's not our language that you're dealling with 'stan' is a suffix which means the equivalent of 'land of' so Afghanistan for example means "Land of the Afghani's" as such calling people 'istanis' is as dumb as calling the Scot's and Irish 'Landis'.

not our language were dealing with:loopy:

not our language were dealing with:loopy:
What are you talking about? :huh:

not our language were dealing with:loopy:
Really so 'stan' is an English suffix is it?

Really so 'stan' is an English suffix is it?

i dont know and i couldnt really care, its used by us in our everday language and therefore a part of it

Why I'm attempting to reason with somebody who thinks coming up new terms for racial abuse is a good idea is beyond me, but anyway...

How about you actually address the substance of my argument, your term of choice for racially abusing people people 'istani' is just the same and as just dumb as referring to people from Finland, Scotland, Ireland, Iceland, England, Greenland, New Zealand, The Netherlands, Poland, Swaziland & Thailand as 'Landis'.

What are you talking about? :huh:

Doubt he really knows himself Hecate - coherent thought and tom3t0 seem to be fairly rare acquaintances.......

If there was a white pop group, a very popular one called PACKY or PACKY PACK, the bad connotation would disappearThere's a little bushbaby-like creature in a fantasy novel I'm tinkering with at the moment called a pakpak. It was inspired by a typo on a writers board, someone trying to type 'backpack'. Just saying.

It's quite sad when people are actually pretending that the word paki is similar to brit or scot. I find it even more sad when people lump people from india, pakistan, sri lanka, bangladesh into one group by calling them pakis.

paki is used when pakistani should be.
when used in a racist term "istani" would be a better term as it encompasses more groups.

why would you try and coin new 'racist' words to describe other people?

It's quite sad when people are actually pretending that the word paki is similar to brit or scot. I find it even more sad when people lump people from india, pakistan, sri lanka, bangladesh into one group by calling them pakis.
Such ignorance is at the core of racism.

why would you try and coin new 'racist' words to describe other people?

im not trying to coin new "racist" words
paki should be pakistani, but paki is an acceptable word,
asian/istani/stani would be better words to use in the context "paki" is commonly used

im not trying to coin new "racist" words
paki should be pakistani, but paki is an acceptable word,
In what way is it 'acceptable'? It's used as a term of abuse and people find it offensive therefore it's an unacceptable word to use in polite conversation.

asian/istani/stani would be better words to use in the context "paki" is commonly used
Why? How can there be such a thing as a 'better' word to racially abuse people with?

In what way is it 'acceptable'? It's used as a term of abuse and people find it offensive therefore it's an unacceptable word to use in polite conversation.


Why? How can there be such a thing as a 'better' word to racially abuse people with?

eg. I know a few pakis, a somali, many enlgish, a few scots, an iranian, some welsh people a german and an iraqi.

two asians cross the road
Racist POV
"a couple of pakis", would be better phrased "couple of asians"

eg. I know a few pakis, a somali, many enlgish, a few scots, an iranian, some welsh people a german and an iraqi.

two asians cross the road
Racist POV
"a couple of pakis", would be better phrased "couple of asians"
Will you please have another go at that post as it's completely unintelligible.

Will you please have another go at that post as it's completely unintelligible.

i'll just leave it, cos i couldn't understand what you were on about in the first place and i believe you are trying to provoke me to be rude.

im not trying to coin new "racist" words
paki should be pakistani, but paki is an acceptable word,
asian/istani/stani would be better words to use in the context "paki" is commonly used

I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say, in your opinion "paki" may be abusive but you should still be able use the term if you want to. Or is it in your opinion "paki" is not abusive, the problem here is that the vast majority of the country disagree with you; a fact that you are not oblivious to.

So why do you want to use a term that you know is accepted by the vast majority as abusive, it can only be assumed that you use the word "paki" as a term of abuse.

........ a term that you know is accepted by the vast majority as abusive, ....

Would you qualify "the vast majority"?

I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say, in your opinion "paki" may be abusive but you should still be able use the term if you want to. Or is it in your opinion "paki" is not abusive, the problem here is that the vast majority of the country disagree with you; a fact that you are not oblivious to.

So why do you want to use a term that you know is accepted by the vast majority as abusive, it can only be assumed that you use the word "paki" as a term of abuse.

Thank you, ive used the term paki in both contexts, an english pakistani i know uses the term "paki" correctly, most people i know, don't.
I tend not to use the word paki as a term of abuse and opt for the word "stanis" myself.
I wouldn't call a pakistani a "stani" solely because of their race nor abuse other races because of their race, it's a term for their "less desirable" members of their race.
Like them "stanis" who jumped me on abbeydale rd whilst shouting "lets do him he's white". (couple of years since now)

I agree, it's the same as in America where Blacks can call each other '******' but it's seen as offensive if used by Whites. It's actually a kind of double standard really.

just because some blacks call it each other IT DOES'T MAKE IT RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!:loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy: :loopy:

I am intrigued as to why the word Paki is classed as racist.

Paki is surely abbreviated for Pakistani as Brit is for British, as Scot is for Scottish so who decided that Paki, being abbreviated as Pakistani is a racist remark?

That in itslef is surely racist implying that there is something bad about being Pakistani.

Can anyone explain?

PLEASE DO NOT DETRACT AND USE THIS THREAD TO PASS RACIAL COMMENTS - I AM NOT RACIST, BUT AM INTRIGUED AS TO THE REASONINGS BEHIND THIS, particularly as Pakistanis whom we have known refer to Paki shops etc.
Still, would it be racist to call an Irishman a 'paddy', a Frenchman a 'frog', A German a 'kraut', a Chinese person a 'chink', a Spaniard a 'dago', a Welshman a 'taffy' etc.

Probably, but then again maybe not.

Still, would it be racist to call an Irishman a 'paddy', a Frenchman a 'frog', A German a 'kraut', a Chinese person a 'chink', a Spaniard a 'dago', a Welshman a 'taffy' etc.

Probably, but then again maybe not.

IMO, I would say at the very least, it's demeaning and insulting, if not directly racist.

IMO, I would say at the very least, it's demeaning and insulting, if not directly racist.

Indeed. And those who are bringing up the old chestnut about black peple using the 'n' word are missing the point -

let's look at this example, which happens to be true.
My older brother and I , when answering the 'phone to each other not infrequently start the conversation with 'Hiya, f***pig'. This is Ok, because we love each other dearly and have the utmost respect for one another. If a person who didn't know my brother - or did and a major disliking of him referred to him in this way, then he would rightly be grossly offended.

i dont think paki should bother any1 because at the end ov the day its just a word thats shorty than pakistan and there even call thyem selfs pakis so i cnt see wat the prob is with every1 out there!

AND I AM NOT BE RACIST I NEVER HAVE BEEN BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS BEHIND IT ALL

i dont think paki should bother any1 because at the end ov the day its just a word thats shorty than pakistan and there even call thyem selfs pakis so i cnt see wat the prob is with every1 out there!

AND I AM NOT BE RACIST I NEVER HAVE BEEN BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS BEHIND IT ALL

Read the thread, brad, read the thread....

I haven't read all the threads but IMO the word Paki is offensive because most people who use the term Paki do so in a derogatory manner. E.G. If my innocent 8 y o daughter came home & said "We have 2 new children in our class 1 is scot & 1 is paki" I know she wouldn't mean any ill will but due to this day & age I would put her right on facts. However if someone said "he is a paki b*****d" it is racist same as it would be if someone said "he is a scot b*****d".
I have also noticed people of Asian origin are called Paki's whether they are from India, Pakistan or many other Asian countries. It's like calling someone from Germany a Brit, it wouldn't happen.
Racism is a strange thing.
My mum in law when describing a black person will say they were coloured thinking she is being politically correct but opinion says this is rascism & we should say black. Again it comes down to what we mean not what we say!

i dont think paki should bother any1 because at the end ov the day its just a word thats shorty than pakistan and there even call thyem selfs pakis so i cnt see wat the prob is with every1 out there!

AND I AM NOT BE RACIST I NEVER HAVE BEEN BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS BEHIND IT ALL


Please don't shout!

And try not to use text speech on here. Thanks.

Indeed. And those who are bringing up the old chestnut about black peple using the 'n' word are missing the point -

let's look at this example, which happens to be true.
My older brother and I , when answering the 'phone to each other not infrequently start the conversation with 'Hiya, f***pig'. This is Ok, because we love each other dearly and have the utmost respect for one another. If a person who didn't know my brother - or did and a major disliking of him referred to him in this way, then he would rightly be grossly offended.

Although I'm not going to read the whole thread again (I think was agreed by most of us at the beginning of it), this is pretty much the [correct] conclusion of this thread (IMO).

EDIT, just reread a bit, posts 97 and 100, were my meaning.

I find the word offensive just because of how its been used in the past. I don't really care of the ins and outs of it, surely this argument shows that it can be seen as offensive? So i just don't use it, I'm sure if in our language the word Paki had never been used as an insult (or equivalent) it wouldn't be a problem to use it, but it has! Just look it up in the dictionary for a definition...

I remember being told off as a child for using the word Paki, because of the underlying meaning attached to it, I think i heard it at school somewhere... Anyway, theres a risk of insulting someone by using this word, then whats the point of using it? Be nice... lol!

Just to add... I live with a guy i consider to be racist, he really really winds me up, heres an example:
While driving down the road a taxi turns off left in front of us without indicating. He says "Ruddy Paki's, they should learn to indicate". I say: "Was that driver Pakistani? Did you even see him? How do you know he wasn't from a different asian country? Your just using that work in a racist derogatory manner". When a word is used in this context just naturally to some people, it shouldnt feel right to use it in any circumstances when it can be used with this meaning attached.

Thank you, ive used the term paki in both contexts, an english pakistani i know uses the term "paki" correctly, most people i know, don't.
I tend not to use the word paki as a term of abuse and opt for the word "stanis" myself.
I wouldn't call a pakistani a "stani" solely because of their race nor abuse other races because of their race, it's a term for their "less desirable" members of their race.
Like them "stanis" who jumped me on abbeydale rd whilst shouting "lets do him he's white". (couple of years since now)

so what you are saying is

let's call good pakistanis as 'pakistanis'

let's call bad pakistanis or as you put their less desirable members as 'stanis'

And you said you did'nt want to coin a new word just few posts ago

As for our fellow forummers pretending the word paki is just an abbreviation and therefore no harm in spouting the word should try this.

Go up to an asian and call him a 'hey excuse me paki' :D

As for our fellow forummers pretending the word paki is just an abbreviation and therefore no harm in spouting the word should try this.

Go up to an asian and call him a 'hey excuse me paki' :D

i have seen this happen with varying results.

who are you calling a paki?
can i help you?
hey up mate how you doing?

i don't think all asians, pakistani or not find the term paki offensive some do and some don't.

I may be wrong but a pakistani friend of mine once told me that 'paki' actually meant 'pure', so how exactly can that be offensive?
Hayley.

I may be wrong but a pakistani friend of mine once told me that 'paki' actually meant 'pure', so how exactly can that be offensive?
Hayley.
Words have no inherent meaning but are simple social constructions as such a word is offensive if people use it offensively, which people frequently do in this case and/or if people to whom the word is applied find the word offensive which they frequently do in this case. Consequently 'paki' is offensive

Anyway, theres a risk of insulting someone by using this word, then whats the point of using it?The single most important point in the whole debate.

I may be wrong but a pakistani friend of mine once told me that 'paki' actually meant 'pure', so how exactly can that be offensive?
Hayley.
The word that your friend told you about was "PAAK" and not the one you used.:suspect:

Words have no inherent meaning but are simple social constructions as such a word is offensive if people use it offensively, which people frequently do in this case and/or if people to whom the word is applied find the word offensive which they frequently do in this case. Consequently 'paki' is offensive
I agree with you but the problem is that people who use the word, and seem to take pleasure from using it offensively, will have a hard job understanding your above statement.:)

Words have no inherent meaning but are simple social constructions as such a word is offensive if people use it offensively, which people frequently do in this case and/or if people to whom the word is applied find the word offensive which they frequently do in this case. Consequently 'paki' is offensive

I've barely ever seen such nonsense. While we agree that the word in question is almost exclusively used as an insult (the only exception of which I can think is in the film 'East Is East', and even then, that's debatable), words most certainly do have 'inherent' meanings.

Had they not, they would have no meaning whatsoever.

'Words have no inherent meaning' - what utter rot.

'Words have no inherent meaning' - what utter rot.Though we often agree, I think you are being unduly harsh here.

I believe plekhanov was saying that words do not have inherent meanings that must forever remain fixed. If this is the case, then I think his point is self-evident.

I've barely ever seen such nonsense. While we agree that the word in question is almost exclusively used as an insult (the only exception of which I can think is in the film 'East Is East', and even then, that's debatable), words most certainly do have 'inherent' meanings.

Had they not, they would have no meaning whatsoever.
Really so words existed and had meaning before humans developed language did they?

'Words have no inherent meaning' - what utter rot.
Why is it 'utter rot'?

Why is it 'utter rot'?See my post above. I think the problem is one of misinterpretation. No big deal.

Though we often agree, I think you are being unduly harsh here.

I believe plekhanov was saying that words do not have inherent meanings that must forever remain fixed. If this is the case, then I think his point is self-evident.

And my inference from that is simply that while ever language is fluid, and meanings can change, words have meanings. Inherently. And as you, I, and plekhanov agree (I'm sure) this term is inherently racist.

Really so words existed and had meaning before humans developed language did they?

Precisely the point plekhanov; they developed from the very primitive communication sytems that our ancestors used.

Why is it 'utter rot'?

Because a word without meaning, is like a fire without heat. The word may subtly change its meaning, but the original derivation always remains.

And my inference from that is simply that while ever language is fluid, and meanings can change, words have meanings. Inherently. And as you, I, and plekhanov agree (I'm sure) this term is inherently racist.
I think perhaps you need to check the standard definition of inherent:

inherent

1 Fixed, situated, or contained in or in something (lit. & fig.). L16–E19.

2 Existing in something as an essential, permanent, or characteristic attribute or quality; forming an element of something; intrinsic, essential. (Foll. by in.) L16.

There is absolutely nothing 'essentially, permanently' or 'instrinsically' offensive about the word 'Paki', the offensiveness is entirely a result of of the meanings those who use and hear the word give it.

Precisely the point plekhanov; they developed from the very primitive communication sytems that our ancestors used.
How is this 'precisely the point'? Language developed as groups of people began to give communally accepted meanings to sounds, the meaning came from the people and was in no way an 'essential, permanent, or characteristic attribute or quality' of those sounds.

Because a word without meaning, is like a fire without heat. The word may subtly change its meaning, but the original derivation always remains.
No it doesn't, there are plenty of words for which etymologists don't know the origins and there are abundant examples of the meanings of words radically changing overtime, the word 'gay' for example as homophobes regularly complain used to mean something very different to what it does now.

I think perhaps you need to check the standard definition of inherent:

inherent

1 Fixed, situated, or contained in or in something (lit. & fig.). L16–E19.

2 Existing in something as an essential, permanent, or characteristic attribute or quality; forming an element of something; intrinsic, essential. (Foll. by in.) L16.

There is absolutely nothing 'essentially, permanently' or 'instrinsically' offensive about the word 'Paki', the offensiveness is entirely a result of of the meanings those who use and hear the word give it.

And to be honest, from one linguist to another, you ought to get out of your own backside. The 'inherent' qualities are precisely delivered in the term's usage. Therefore, the word (via its usage) is intrinsically offensive, as we both agree.

As such, as the word derives from the Latin inhaereo, 'I stick to', and specifically from the present participle, meaning 'sticking to, being part of'; using the term 'Paki', in the context with which it is ALWAYS used, is clearly offensive.

How is this 'precisely the point'? Language developed as groups of people began to give communally accepted meanings to sounds, the meaning came from the people and was in no way an 'essential, permanent, or characteristic attribute or quality' of those sounds.

So words have no meanings? 'Characteristic' is a very interesting word you use, or rather quote. That's a nice way of saying 'It's like that but we can't say', which doesn't fit with your other two adjectives, which are definitive.

No it doesn't, there are plenty of words for which etymologists don't know the origins and there are abundant examples of the meanings of words radically changing overtime, the word 'gay' for example as homophobes regularly complain used to mean something very different to what it does now.

Agreed. Meanings do, and can change, but the derivation can never do so. Very few meanings change, but 'gay' is a very good example of how it can.

If you want to tell me that the word 'paki', won't be seen as offensive, in general however, I'll stand hanging.

And to be honest, from one linguist to another, you ought to get out of your own backside. The 'inherent' qualities are precisely delivered in the term's usage. Therefore, the word (via its usage) is intrinsically offensive, as we both agree.
I do not agree that 'paki' is inherently offensive, in fact I have repeatedly stated that I do not think it is. At the moment it's generally considered to be offensive but there's no reason that can't or won't change in the future.

'******' for example didn't used to be an offensive term yet it's currently about as offensive as words get this marked change, this change just wouldn't have been possible if as you claim words are 'inherently' offensive.

As such, as the word derives from the Latin inhaereo, 'I stick to', and specifically from the present participle, meaning 'sticking to, being part of'; using the term 'Paki', in the context with which it is ALWAYS used, is clearly offensive.
It's far from clear that 'Paki' is always offensive, numerous people in this thread for example have claimed that Pakistanis use the term themselves in an attempt to 'take back' the word in a similar way that some homosexuals use the word 'queer' and blacks '******'.

So what have we got out of this? I think the two of you are arguing in circles, somewhat.

Is the word 'paki' inherently racist? Yes, if you take a particular definition of the word 'inherently', ie essentially, and concentrate on how the word is currently used.

No, if you take the definition of inherently as permanently. No word has a definitive fixed permanent meaning. Language always has the potential to develop.

So, semantics, as far as I can see it. But the key point which we'd probably all agree on is if you want to call someone a paki, then you're either an idiot or a racist. No excuses for either, once you educate yourself.

I do not agree that 'paki' is inherently offensive, in fact I have repeatedly stated that I do not think it is. At the moment it's generally considered to be offensive but there's no reason that can't or won't change in the future.

'******' for example didn't used to be an offensive term yet it's currently about as offensive as words get this marked change, this change just wouldn't have been possible if as you claim words are 'inherently' offensive.

Yes it did, to the community at which it was directed.

It's far from clear that 'Paki' is always offensive, numerous people in this thread for example have claimed that Pakistanis use the term themselves in an attempt to 'take back' the word in a similar way that some homosexuals use the word 'queer' and blacks '******'.

I have to say I did mention this earlier on with regard to "East Is East". To return to your previous statement, '******' (another Latin corruption) wasn't seen as offensive until the black community had the confidence to say it was. The word itself always had negative connotations, as well you know. 'Reclamation' is nothing more than a knee jerk.

So, semantics, as far as I can see it. But the key point which we'd probably all agree on is if you want to call someone a paki, then you're either an idiot or a racist. No excuses for either, once you educate yourself.

I agree, but this is a semantic argument, and idiot and/or racist? Can't disagree with either if someone wants to use that term. See you at the top of Gangway F v Newcastle too!

I agree, but this is a semantic argumentYeah, they can be the worst kind though. You and plekhanov appeared to be arguing past each other, is all. See you at the top of Gangway F v Newcastle too!I may PM you nearer the time. Would be good to meet another of the Gangway F massive. ;)

Yeah, they can be the worst kind though. You and plekhanov appeared to be arguing past each other, is all. I may PM you nearer the time. Would be good to meet another of the Gangway F massive. ;)

Fair do's, see you at Newcastle :)

Fair do's, see you at Newcastle :)We'll dick 'em!

:hihi: with brown sauce or red sauce? :heyhey:

As long as there is no black pudding. That would be sooooo racist.

I seem to remember Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble had "a gay old time"...

...but I can't actually remember seeing that episode. ;)

You do of course know that the word gay didn't mean THAT in the mid 60s when the Flintstones was originally screened?

After all, if Fred and Barney batted for the other side they wouldn't have married babes like Wilma and Betty :love:

Actually most of the main actors in East is East weren't Pakistani at all, most of them are of indian origin. The guy who played the dad is a well known bollywood actor so it was extra funny when he got angry with the indians.

Just because you have a thick skin doesn't mean that everyone else has.

PC I disagree with - I hate the fact that a blackboard is now a 'chalkboard' and that kids can't sing 'Bah Bah Black Sheep' - but not referring to Asian people as 'Pakis' is not PC, it's just acceptable behaviour.

The Australians call us Pommes that doesnt offend me

The Australians call us Pommes that doesnt offend me

It does me - but then I am a pomegranet.

It does me - but then I am a pomegranet.

Christ(TM) Sidney, you're getting on a bit ........ what was the War Of The Roses really like then? :hihi: