Guys, maybe you can help me sort out a disagreement?

I went to the off-licence last night to get a couple of bottles of wine, and didn't notice until I got home that they had screw tops instead of corks.

I was quite disappointed as I always assume wine with screw tops is cr4p, and I had paid £6 per bottle, so wasn't expecting rubbish.

Anyhoo, I was informed by my partner that it is becoming 'in vogue' for good wine to have screw tops! I don't believe it, but can anyone shed any light?

K x

If you've ever had a bottle of wine that's corked you'll know that not all good wine comes with corks...:gag:

I'm sure that there are subtle differences between screw tops and corks - I guess that there is the possibility of some sort of material cojntamination from the screw top just as there is from a cork, but I'm not sure what the screw tops are made of...

I've had one bottle where the 'cork' was made of a rubbery plastic, and another one where it was long like a cork but kind of like a screw thread on it, and that was also plastic.

Joe

Now this is the subject of camp dinner parties.

Screw tops are de rigeuer and à la mode. They harm the wine in no way. And they are ecological. There is in fact a chronic cork shortage in the world. If not a screw top, then a synthetic cork is also acceptable.

In France wines comes in 3 litre plastic bottles with screw tops, if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.

Originally posted by fhain29
Now this is the subject of camp dinner parties.

In fairness, that's exactly where last night's discussion started!

K x

Originally posted by Kristian
Guys, maybe you can help me sort out a disagreement?

I went to the off-licence last night to get a couple of bottles of wine, and didn't notice until I got home that they had screw tops instead of corks.

I was quite disappointed as I always assume wine with screw tops is cr4p, and I had paid £6 per bottle, so wasn't expecting rubbish.

Anyhoo, I was informed by my partner that it is becoming 'in vogue' for good wine to have screw tops! I don't believe it, but can anyone shed any light?

K x

Kristian,

As an avid wine investor I've discussed this issue many times with various people. The biggest drawback of screwtop wines are that they do not allow for a wine to be kept for any length of time and aged. The reason for this is that metal oxidises and can damage the taste of the wine. Good quality cork is becoming harder to source, especially in Australia where the price has rocketed in recent years; this is why increasing numbers of wine producers are switching to synthetic corks or screwtops. Wine producers who sell their wines for more (and indeed expect the buyer to lay it down for sometime) can afford to pay for decent cork - which is essential if a bottle is to age well.
Synthetic corks are equally troublesome- as they are made of rubber or plastic, which are non-porous materials, they do not allow air to circulate in the bottle which is essential if a wine is to age and not oxidise. My other gripe with synthetic corks is that they damage my Screwpull!

So to try and answer your question: are more "good" wines coming with a screwtop? The answer is probably "no". I taste, buy and sell thousands of bottles of wine a year and the best always come with a good, old-fashioned cork. In my opinion, screwtops represent an easy and cheap way to ship wine that will be sold sub £7 and drunk within 2-3 months of bottling. I never drink wine that I've just bought - bottles usually sit in my cellar for approximately 12-16 months giving them time to settle and for the mysteries of time to be wrought! I simply couldn't do this if the bottles I bought had screwtops and for that reason I never buy them. But that's the opinion of someone who's a bit of wine snob.

I mentioned "sub £7" before - let me just explain that. £7 is the magic number for wine in this country. It's the point at which wines cease to be "ok - drinkable" and become "excellent - gluggable". The reason for this is tax. If you buy a bottle of wine that is below £7 you can expect for most of the money to have gone on tax - and not the wine itself. I always tell people to spend that extra bit more - it really does make the difference.

I saw something on the news a couple of months ago where they got a load of top wine tasters and they "proved" that wine with screw tops is actualy better than with corks (for the same wine).

Obviously there are some excellent bottles out there layed down before screw tops were widely used so it's still sort-of true to say that all the best wine comes with a cork.

Thanks JonJParr!

I am certainly no wine buff, but the £7 statement makes sense!

Cheers (someone had to do that one!) :thumbsup:

K x

Originally posted by kilauea
I saw something on the news a couple of months ago where they got a load of top wine tasters and they "proved" that wine with screw tops is actualy better than with corks (for the same wine).

Obviously there are some excellent bottles out there layed down before screw tops were widely used so it's still sort-of true to say that all the best wine comes with a cork.

I'd doubt the validity of that test for this reason. They were probably testing to see if a difference in taste could be detected in the same wine. It's not detectable if drunk within 2-3 months but would be if layed down for any length of time. But as for the best wines coming with screwtops - I'm afraid that just isn't true. A bottle of Chateau Mouton-Rothschild, Chateau Patache d'Aux or Romanée-Conti would never be bottled with screwtops (because they're intended for aging) and these truly are the best bottles of wine in the world.

If Jon sells wine then he's obviously interested in increasing his turnover by selling more expensive wines.

Lay it down for 12-16 months?!?!

Buy it, drink it, get ****ed!!!

Originally posted by coopster1974
Lay it down for 12-16 months?!?!

Buy it, drink it, get ****ed!!!

I'm sorry to say that this is more my style too! :thumbsup:

I had a friend who used to try to tell me about good wines, but I never understood properly. I really can't tell the difference between a cheap (ish) dry white, and an expensive one! Moral of the story? Kristian is a cheap date! :clap:

K x

Pretty much that... The screw caps suited younger wines as they stayed fresher and were more consistent. If the wine was intended for laying down for a long period - it has to breath a little so a cork would be better suited. Although I suspect a lot of it has to do with tradtion and wine snobbery. I'm sure a sythentic "cork" could give more consistent results on older wine.


Originally posted by JonJParr
I'd doubt the validity of that test for this reason. They were probably testing to see if a difference in taste could be detected in the same wine. It's not detectable if drunk within 2-3 months but would be if layed down for any length of time. But as for the best wines coming with screwtops - I'm afraid that just isn't true. A bottle of Chateau Mouton-Rothschild, Chateau Patache d'Aux or Romanée-Conti would never be bottled with screwtops (because they're intended for aging) and these truly are the best bottles of wine in the world.

But isn't the cork there to keep the air out and stop it oxidising ?
If air can get past the cork how come you don't get more wine that has gone off ?

I've only been drinking wine for a short time and I'm clearly no wine buff or anything. Cheap stuff is ok as long as it tastes nice to me. My better half and I like a couple of bottles of Lambrini in the evening sometimes because it's cheap, refreshing and it gets us a little merry. Medium dry Piat D'or is quite nice but I tend to stick to the sweet or medium dry whites at the moment. I've not graduated to red yet. It may happen in time as there was a time when I couldn't stand wine of any kind. :)

Screw top or cork, doesn't bother me as long as it tastes good. :)

I don't really know the ins and outs of this, but I am always disappointed to find my wine has a screw top. Particularly the delicious Californian zinfandel in the Tesco Finest range, cos I love that stuff.

For me, you lose all the ceremony involved in pulling the cork. And that's part of the magic of drinking the stuff - the fact that you have to have a special implement, and put a bit of effort in.

Strangely though, opening a tin of soup has none of this magic, even though it too requires a special implement and a bit of elbow grease. :confused:

Originally posted by nick2
In France wines comes in 3 litre plastic bottles with screw tops, if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me.


Three liter bottles? And the French say we have no class?! I'm no wine expert, but I know what I like. And this stuff is pretty good with pasta, fish or chicken. Yum.

http://www.sallys-place.com/beverages/wine/vintnerschoice/viognier.htm

:) Sierra

Originally posted by Damon

For me, you lose all the ceremony involved in pulling the cork. And that's part of the magic of drinking the stuff - the fact that you have to have a special implement, and put a bit of effort in.

Strangely though, opening a tin of soup has none of this magic, even though it too requires a special implement and a bit of elbow grease. :confused:

Funny Damon. :hihi: But soooo true!

:) Sierra

Screw top wine is perfect in the field, no tools required and it's resealable.

Not a big wine buff either - generally looking for "quaffing wine".

I must say that £7 is my absolute upper limit. This is alcohol we are talking about here after all - not the elixir of life or the blood of christ or anything.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Screw top wine is perfect in the field, no tools required and it's resealable.

Not a big wine buff either - generally looking for "quaffing wine".

I must say that £7 is my absolute upper limit. This is alcohol we are talking about here after all - not the elixir of life or the blood of christ or anything.

Amen! :thumbsup:

Originally posted by nick2
But isn't the cork there to keep the air out and stop it oxidising ?
If air can get past the cork how come you don't get more wine that has gone off ?

Winemakers have different opinions about whether the wine should be able to breathe slightly. Corks allow a small amount of air to pass, screwtops seal out the air completely.

Originally posted by JonJParr
Winemakers have different opinions about whether the wine should be able to breathe slightly. Corks allow a small amount of air to pass, screwtops seal out the air completely.

I suppose they must use special cork for champagne that doesn't breath otherwise the gas would slowly escape from the bottle and it would go flat ?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Screw top wine is perfect in the field, no tools required and it's resealable.

Not a big wine buff either - generally looking for "quaffing wine".

I must say that £7 is my absolute upper limit. This is alcohol we are talking about here after all - not the elixir of life or the blood of christ or anything.

It depends if it's your hobby or not. I have no quarms about drinking bottles of wine that cost £5. I don't have quarms about paying a lot more than that either. In fact on Christmas Day this year I opened a bottle which was worth £850 (it was yummy by the way!)

Originally posted by nick2
I suppose they must use special cork for champagne that doesn't breath otherwise the gas would slowly escape from the bottle and it would go flat ?

No it's the same cork. Just to clarify, I'm not talking proper breathing here - it's extremely slow. Champagne does go flat over time, that's why a vintage Champagne has much smaller bubbles and is almost flat.

I respect Jonjparr's opinions, but personally speaking, aside from [Australian] Yalumba's Oxford Landing Sauvignon blanc, few examples of "screw-top" wine on the market cause pleasure. Most is filthy. Why serve filthy wine? Nobody serves scrag-end of lamb!

Originally posted by JonJParr
It depends if it's your hobby or not. I have no quarms about drinking bottles of wine that cost £5. I don't have quarms about paying a lot more than that either. In fact on Christmas Day this year I opened a bottle which was worth £850 (it was yummy by the way!)

I hope you didn't actually pay that amount for it? I like the nice things in life, but I find that's extortionate!

K x

I don't drink much at all now but when I did I had good wines from both corked and screwed bottles.:thumbsup:

Originally posted by JonJParr
Winemakers have different opinions about whether the wine should be able to breathe slightly. Corks allow a small amount of air to pass, screwtops seal out the air completely.

I think you might have boxed yourself into a corner here.
The purpose of a cork whether natural or synthetic is to provide an airtight seal.
You lay a bottle on it's side to keep the natural cork moist, thus swollen and thus airtight.
The majority of winemakers also place a foil, plastic or wax cap over the cork to ensure that it is airtight.

I accept that opinions may differ but can you show a webpage from a winemaker that suggests otherwise?

You enjoyed a bottle that you say was worth £850. If you had paid this for it, I expect you would have been extremely annoyed had you found it to have been "corked".
Synthetic corks can help reduce this type of catastrophe.

Although some would say that those who can afford £850 bottles of wine are not likely to miss the odd grand or two!

Originally posted by timo
I respect Jonjparr's opinions, but personally speaking, aside from [Australian] Yalumba's Oxford Landing Sauvignon blanc, few examples of "screw-top" wine on the market cause pleasure. Most is filthy. Why serve filthy wine? Nobody serves scrag-end of lamb!

Again, a lot of it's to do with price. I'm going through a phase of enjoying an NZ Montana Cab Sav at just under the magic £7 mark. Try it and you may change your mind about screw tops.

Whatever price you pay for wine a certain percentage of naturally corked wines are 'corked' and at the upper end of the market it's a risk I'd like taken away.

Nuff said:

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_564693.html

Originally posted by kilauea
Nuff said:

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_564693.html

Thats's so funny! I wonder if they told the experts of their findings before they published their story?

K x

I know one thing, screw tops are a lot less hassle!

Most evidence at the moment seems to suggest that screw tops (for drinking in the short term) actually improve the quality on average.

I can't really comment on the 'laying down' idea, except to say that allowing the bottle to breath would surely increase oxidation as it allows oxygen to keep coming into the bottle.
If the bottle is sealed as soon as the available oxygen is used up no more oxidation can take place.

Originally posted by JonJParr
I'd doubt the validity of that test for this reason. They were probably testing to see if a difference in taste could be detected in the same wine. It's not detectable if drunk within 2-3 months but would be if layed down for any length of time. But as for the best wines coming with screwtops - I'm afraid that just isn't true. A bottle of Chateau Mouton-Rothschild, Chateau Patache d'Aux or Romanée-Conti would never be bottled with screwtops (because they're intended for aging) and these truly are the best bottles of wine in the world.