Only Sheffield Council could allow access to the Cenotaph in Barker's Pool to be blocked by a German market [ ! ] What's the betting they'll erect a statue of Stalin outside the Polish
Club ?

Is it really that big a deal? Besides, I'm sure I saw someone selling Paella at this so called 'german' market.

Don't mention the war!

I got excited at the thread title, thinking they might be getting together for a live tour to celebrate something or other!

As all Python enthusiasts know, Graham Chapman was actually born and raised in Sheffield, though he was actually invited to join the troupe by the American Michael Palin.

Dom Kombatante.

As all Python enthusiasts know, Graham Chapman was actually born and raised in Sheffield, though he was actually invited to join the troupe by the American Michael Palin.

Doh. You confused me there Basil. I was sat thinking 'But isn't Palin from Sheffield?'. I even went away and checked it on wikipedia. :rolleyes:

Welcome back Basil you have been quiet?

Only Sheffield Council could allow access to the Cenotaph in Barker's Pool to be blocked by a German market [ ! ] What's the betting they'll erect a statue of Stalin outside the Polish
Club ?

Seeing as germany has been a friendly peaceful democratic (well, most of it) country for 60 years now, what is the problem? They're not holding a Nazi rally. :rolleyes:

Presumably you're not going to have a Christmas tree, it being a symbol of german cultural imperialism introduced by 19th century immigrant overlords?

There is full access to the cenotaph,so feel free to visit and pay your respects if you wish.As did several of the german traders.

There is full access to the cenotaph,so feel free to visit and pay your respects if you wish.As did several of the german traders.

Looks like the market will be moved for forthcoming years after the council received comlaints from veteran's families:
ORGANISERS of Sheffield city centre's German market are considering finding it a new home in future after they were slammed for showing a lack of respect to former soldiers who lost their lives in combat.
Sheffield Council will look at alternative venues after receiving complaints from families of war veterans who were unable to gain access to the cenotaph in Barker's Pool where the popular market has been situated.

Full article here (http://www.thestar.co.uk/headlines/War-memorial-anger.3541092.jp).

There is full access to the cenotaph,so feel free to visit and pay your respects if you wish.As did several of the german traders.

This is true, I had a gander at the market this afternoon and there is plenty of space around the Cenotaph, you can just walk up to it.

And not a Nazi in sight.

why the hell does evryone kick up when something happens good to the city moan moan moan

I went to the German Market today. Theres plenty of access to the cenotaph. I don't think the traders were too happy at the rain the place look deserted.

The little Beer Keller was very nice to shelter from the rain and drink mulled wine and eat sausage!

Does anyone know what time the market finishes on a week night?

I definitely recommend you sit in the chalet with a cup of mulled wine - pure bliss

I saw a stall from Holland selling cheese so it looks like Europe is making friends at Barkers Pool.

best cheese in holland that :) try the nettle ones, very nice.

It doesn't seem the best site and not because of the cenotaph. The market itself has 3 Dutch stalls, 1 Spanish and 1 Turkish so not particularily German. The Dutch suffered far more from the Natzis than we did. I know I have Dutch friends from Arnhem. They've moved on so isn't it time we did? After all the Germans running the stalls have nothing to do with it. Even their parents would be born after the war. Even their grandparents would only be children during the war. I have older German friends whose parents were in the concentration camp because their Great great grandfather had some Jewish Blood. Only fanatics carry on attacking people for what their great grandparents may have done. I'm not meaning any disrespect to those who lost relatives in the War but you have to move on sometime.

Looks like the market will be moved for forthcoming years after the council received comlaints from veteran's families:


Full article here (http://www.thestar.co.uk/headlines/War-memorial-anger.3541092.jp).

No markets should be held there full stop regardless of whether they are German or not. It is incredibly offensive to veterans families and I think really, really inappropriate.

That goes even more for the fairground ride they had there last week.

This is a memorial not a grave. Unless the monument is likely to be damaged I don't see you should ban events. Other such memorials in other cities have events around them. Are we to ban the students who mill around after graduating? Must we close the City Hall in case there is too much merriment near by?

Duckweed. No we shouldn't. The student's are fine, they are not using the site for commercial gain, just as a public space. City Hall was there before the memorial and I think it is just far enough away to be respectful.

I think these stalls are too close though. There are other suitable sites in the city centre. And remember it is a memorial that served instead of a grave for many people who died but never had their remains identified.

If you saw the fields and fields of graves of unknown soldiers in Belgium you might understand this better.

I've seen the graves at Arnhem. They go on for miles. I'm aware of the slaughter that happened. If you stop events round the Memorial, the Memorial becomes isolated and unseen. Surely that is the point of a Memorial to be seen by those who did not know what happened. Otherwise it would have been put inside the Cathedral.

That goes even more for the fairground ride they had there last week.

Why is that exactly?? Do you find fairground rides offensive just because they are near a memorial? why more offensive than a market? How close is too close in your opinion? The memorial is still accessible after all.

In my opinion it isn't offensive to hold events such as these, wether for commercial gain or not, next to a war memorial. It's an open space in the middle of town - why not utilize it now and then?

If people want a memorial in constant solitude and away from the goings on of everyday life then it should be in the middle of nowhere not in a busy area of town. To be honest I think some people take offense far too easily.

I don't see a problem with it being there. Its not on top of graves, just next to a memorial.

I do think its in the wrong place however, the continental markets are better down fargate where they get more passing trade. I don't see why this particular selection of stalls has to be with us all month either... they're all a bit crap (paella without seafood?!?!) and they're not especially german :loopy:

It doesn't seem the best site and not because of the cenotaph. The market itself has 3 Dutch stalls, 1 Spanish and 1 Turkish so not particularily German. The Dutch suffered far more from the Natzis than we did. I know I have Dutch friends from Arnhem. They've moved on so isn't it time we did? After all the Germans running the stalls have nothing to do with it. Even their parents would be born after the war. Even their grandparents would only be children during the war. I have older German friends whose parents were in the concentration camp because their Great great grandfather had some Jewish Blood. Only fanatics carry on attacking people for what their great grandparents may have done. I'm not meaning any disrespect to those who lost relatives in the War but you have to move on sometime.

Thank you for your post...I totally agree with you! I am actually from Germany and moved to Sheffield just 3 months ago.
I get so sick of people thinking that all Germans are Nazis.....
It is offending and just not true.
And by the way: this christmas market is everything but German!

Thank you for your post...I totally agree with you! I am actually from Germany and moved to Sheffield just 3 months ago.
I get so sick of people thinking that all Germans are Nazis.....
It is offending and just not true.
And by the way: this christmas market is everything but German!

Welcome to Sheffield :)
I appreciate that the German=Nazi thing gets a bit tedious, but it might help you to understand it a bit better if you bear in mind that the economic consequences of the war (including, to some extent, rationing) continued to be felt for at least 12 years longer here than in (BRD) Germany, and that the Wirtschaftswunder as kick-started by Marshall Plan money did not happen here. When you consider that WW2 is probably that rare thing, a just war, and that Britain paid dearly for resisting a truly evil force, you might find it easier to understand why some people and tabloid newpspapers here cultivate an attitude of lingering resentment (often fuelled by the remarkably rude comments about plumbing, cooking and so on that some Germans seem unable to keep to themselves). It really is mostly harmless and best shrugged off.

If you can't look at a monument to the war dead surrounded by a multi-european, German-themed Christmas market and feel somewhat uplifted by what has happened in Europe since 1945, then I'm not sure there's much hope for you.

(Buggers off for a Bratwurst and some lager)

Do any of you people ever want to see anything good in Sheffield - no wonder we have very little activities in the centre when all everyone does is slam the council for its efforts - while the regeneration is going on its hard for the council to find descent, attractive place to hold these sorts of events. you all just let me know if you think sheffield having nothing to do with anything would make you all happy......

I am so sick to death of hearing people moan about such trivial things - that market has brought some culture and a little festivity to the centre, which is a good thing as sheffield xmas light display is hardly noticable (lets face it it's crap!) and the city centre itself is hard to shop in anyway!

Just to balance the argument Womerry 2. It is true the Americans instituted the Marshall Plan but this was after millions of German Civilians had died of starvation. So they weren't exactly living the high life after the war. Having said that you are talking about events that happened over 50 years ago. I'm not saying forget, I'm saying move on and don't blame the great granchildren.

If you can't look at a monument to the war dead surrounded by a multi-european, German-themed Christmas market and feel somewhat uplifted by what has happened in Europe since 1945, then I'm not sure there's much hope for you.

(Buggers off for a Bratwurst and some lager)

What an excellent post :) Let's not forget that the German people suffered in the war as much as we did!

Just like to say I agree with Lord Bute too..

Also, I Just happened to have a meeting in Birmingham today and they have the Frankfurt market on for the month. Really busy, plenty of people, plenty of stalls and shows how good this sort of thing can be when done right.

I'd like to think that Sheffield can try to emulate or expand what they have started over the next few years to bring some atmosphere into the city centre around Christmas time.

the fair rides do not hurt barkers pool people jumping on bandwaggons yet again in sheffield it only happens in our fair city

hey everyone, I think the whole topic is really interesting and that is why I want to write a feature or a newsstory about it (I am a journalism student).
I know I outed myself as a German in my last post, but I would really appreciate it if someone could explain me why he/she thinks it is inappropriate to put a GERMAN christmas market there.
I want the story to be balanced and I want to include different point of views - without judging!