im at my wits end as to what to do, and am hoping someone can shed a little bit of light on this subject. firstly im divorced with 3 kids aged 13 11 and 9 all boys. i divorced their dad 5 years ago, and he would pick the children up every weekend and also pay child support. i started up a new relationship and so did the kids dad. i got married 14 months ago and the childrens dads new partner had a baby who is now 1 year old.
the contact the children had with there dad slowed down and he started not paying his child support, until the csa got involved and he has now been made to pay. the contact the children have with their dad is now friday -sunday once a fortnight.

its my sons birthday on the 1st of december and i told their dad he would not be able to have the children on that friday night as i wanted to see my son on the morning of his birthday but said he could pick them up on the saturday at 6pm, he refused to do this so i told him "fine then dont bother. however not seeing his dad on his birthday upset my son so i text his dad telling him he could have the children and that i would do what i had planned with them the week after. my ex said he had made plans now for the weekend and was going to liverpool with his friends on a lads weekend.

ive asked his what is more important "seeing his son on his birthday"which he only sees 4 days a month or drinking with his mates? also his partner is pregnant with baby number two. they live in a two bedroomed house and will have my kids at the weekends every other weekend,which means there will be 5 boys in one room (the new baby is a boy) they also tell me they cant have my kids the week before the baby is due the week while the baby is due and the week after the baby is due just in case his partner starts in labour.

my new husband and i have a car so could pick the kids up morning noon or night if she started, since all this has happened i have told him not to pick the kids up anymore as it seems obvious to me he is just playing games and trying to wind me up as i feel he dosnt even want the kids. he does nothing with them at the weekend not even taking them to the park or the shops. and the final straw happened last night when he text me and told me he was taking me to court for access, all i want is for him to see his kids more than he already does and share the school holidays which he doesnt do and never has done. if anyone can help with a bit of advice id be so so so grateful. thankyou for reading this.

Hi,
Ive been here myself although i wasnt married to my daughters dad. Its not nice i know an causes you a lot of stress and upset.
If i can give you one piece of advice its dont use your kids as a pawn in your arguments i dont mean to sound harsh when i say that its just that court will not look favourably on you for doing so. it is easily done and ive done it myself its easy to use your kids as weapons but its no good. If the kids want to go and see there dad and you stop them it will be you they turn against in time to come. If he doesnt want them to go let him be the one to ring and tell them. thasts what i make my ex do now,
Let him take you to court, he wont get residency if thats what you are worried about. I was told by my solicitor that married fathers will get the opportunity to see there children every other weekend so each parent gets quality time with there children. However, if a court order is made and he breaks it there is nothing you can do, you cant force him to see the kids, if you break it you can get in trouble for breaking the court order (so i was led to belive). Unfair? Yes ...
If i was you i would also keep a diary on what goes of then if he is playing silly beggers you then have documneted dates, times etc to go into court armed with.
Think you have every right to want your little boy at home with you on his birthday. Your the one he lives with after all. Try and come to a compromise as in you have him during the day and dad has him at night,thats if your son wants to my daughter has always wanted to be at home, maybe throw a party and invite him! if he says no then at least you've asked. Xmas is always a tough one too. We were told by court that birthday and xmas was to be arranged by ourselves and we managed to sort something out.
The fact that the new girlfriend is pregnant is no excuse for him not seeing his kids what does he thinks going to happen shes going to give birth within 5 mins of gettin a twinge. Thats just silly and sounds like an excuse not ot have them.
hope it all works out for you.x

im at my wits end as to what to do, and am hoping someone can shed a little bit of light on this subject. firstly im divorced with 3 kids aged 13 11 and 9 all boys. i divorced their dad 5 years ago, and he would pick the children up every weekend and also pay child support. i started up a new relationship and so did the kids dad. i got married 14 months ago and the childrens dads new partner had a baby who is now 1 year old. the contact the children had with there dad slowed down and he started not paying his child support, until the csa got involved and he has now been made to pay. the contact the children have with their dad is now friday -sunday once a fortnight. its my sons birthday on the 1st of december and i told their dad he would not be able to have the children on that friday night as i wanted to see my son on the morning of his birthday but said he could pick them up on the saturday at 6pm, he refused to do this so i told him "fine then dont bother. however not seeing his dad on his birthday upset my son so i text his dad telling him he could have the children and that i would do what i had planned with them the week after. my ex said he had made plans now for the weekend and was going to liverpool with his friends on a lads weekend. ive asked his what is more important "seeing his son on his birthday"which he only sees 4 days a month or drinking with his mates? also his partner is pregnant with baby number two. they live in a two bedroomed house and will have my kids at the weekends every other weekend,which means there will be 5 boys in one room (the new baby is a boy) they also tell me they cant have my kids the week before the baby is due the week while the baby is due and the week after the baby is due just in case his partner starts in labour.my new husband and i have a car so could pick the kids up morning noon or night if she started, since all this has happened i have told him not to pick the kids up anymore as it seems obvious to me he is just playing games and trying to wind me up as i feel he dosnt even want the kids. he does nothing with them at the weekend not even taking them to the park or the shops. and the final straw happened last night when he text me and told me he was taking me to court for access, all i want is for him to see his kids more than he already does and share the school holidays which he doesnt do and never has done. if anyone can help with a bit of advice id be so so so grateful. thankyou for reading this.

Personally... Tracey 1233 i think you are being a bit selfish here, just because it's your boy's birthday on the 1st of December which is a saturday and you want to spend the morning of his birthday with him, it does not give you the right to change his dad's visiting time with your son.. and it looks like reading between the lines that you did not even ask your son if it was o.k for him not to go with dad on the friday night, then you found out your ex was going away for the weekend so you now want him to change his plans just because it suits you..It makes me really mad when people use there kids as pawns in a marrage split up.. there are fathers out there that are desparate to see there kids and it's always the ex wife/ex partner that stops them when it's suit them.. Let the children see there dad when he has visitation rights to them.. and let it be them that makes up there own mind if they don't want to see him. Your ex still wants to see his kids or he wouldn't be wanting to take you to court.

Youve done nothing wrong, so if i were you id jot down all the dates that hes messed you around and not had the kids when promised, and show them in court.
Also mention in court, the non maintainance payments and how he was made to pay them by law and didnt offer to himself.
He obviously isn't putting the kids first in all of this by playing his immature games.
Ive seen this happen countless times, a man not bothering to see the children for ages and messing the woman about and as soon as the woman says something like you did, and told him not to bother taking them, suddenly he's the injured party.
Hes not reliable by the sounds of it and is only choosing to have them when it suits.
Theres nothing to fear from him taking you to court for access as it will probably set specific times when he will have the children and he must stick to that.
If he doesnt then you take it back to court and tell them hes not playing his part as promised .
I believe its hard if youre married to him, to stop access unless theres violence or something but maybe someone who works with the law can come on and give you some more advice.

Personally... Tracey 1233 i think you are being a bit selfish here, just because it's your boy's birthday on the 1st of December which is a saturday and you want to spend the morning of his birthday with him, it does not give you the right to change his dad's visiting time with your son.. and it looks like reading between the lines that you did not even ask your son if it was o.k for him not to go with dad on the friday night, then you found out your ex was going away for the weekend so you now want him to change his plans just because it suits you..It makes me really mad when people use there kids as pawns in a marrage split up.. there are fathers out there that are desparate to see there kids and it's always the ex wife/ex partner that stops them when it's suit them.. Let the children see there dad when he has visitation rights to them.. and let it be them that makes up there own mind if they don't want to see him. Your ex still wants to see his kids or he wouldn't be wanting to take you to court.

Yes but if he is not playing ball why should he have 'the nice day' with his son on his birthday what about his mum. Shes the one who is there for him 24/7 dont you think she should have the right to see her son open his birthday presetns as shes the main carer.

Is the arrangement of "Fri-Sun every other week" an informal agreement or one sanctioned by the court or other services?

If it is only an informal agreement between the two of you, then is it not possible that "going to court for access" is simply a way of regularising this?

The OP implies that an arrangement was broken, perhaps the father wants to ensure that it doesn't happen again?

Isn't it perfectly reasonable to try and accomodate a request for a break while the other woman gives birth?

tough one that is i was in a similar situation i asked if my ex could return my kids 2 hrs early(the birthday was on a sunday)instead of 7pm at 5 pm,wow what a fuss he caused 6 solicitors letters and a threat of him not seeing the kids later he agreed to returning them at 5pm.
he does have rights though and as hard as it is for me to say,its his weekend,so let him have his usual access.
and do something for your sons birthday the following weekend or in the week,
next year it wont fall on his weekend so let it go is my advice.

try this site for more help.

http://www.parentscentre.gov.uk/forum/index.cfm

i understand how it must feel, but as an outsider looking in - the father should get his visitation. how many years will he not see his children on their birthdays - just because it falls on day's for which he is denied access.

my future son in law has similar access rights and won't get to see one of his children on their birthday this year 'cos of visitation.

Personally... Tracey 1233 i think you are being a bit selfish here, just because it's your boy's birthday on the 1st of December which is a saturday and you want to spend the morning of his birthday with him, it does not give you the right to change his dad's visiting time with your son.. and it looks like reading between the lines that you did not even ask your son if it was o.k for him not to go with dad on the friday night, then you found out your ex was going away for the weekend so you now want him to change his plans just because it suits you..It makes me really mad when people use there kids as pawns in a marrage split up.. there are fathers out there that are desparate to see there kids and it's always the ex wife/ex partner that stops them when it's suit them.. Let the children see there dad when he has visitation rights to them.. and let it be them that makes up there own mind if they don't want to see him. Your ex still wants to see his kids or he wouldn't be wanting to take you to court.

What terrible advice.
The op states that she asked the father to have the kids on the saturday because the son was upset, and later learned after telling him this, that the father was going to Liverpool.
Seems to me like youre twisting things, typical male.
Also why the hell should a mother not see her own son on his birthday, she gave birth to him after all.
Also youre missing the point here its not the kids that can say if they want to see their dad, as its their dad thats not bothering half the time to see THEM.
I would do exactly as Shanhancoen says i would make the father tell the kids when he doesn't want to have them, then that way they wont see it as Mums fault , and realise just who is letting them down.Too many so called fathers play silly games like this with access. And they dont realise the harm they do to the children.
In my oppinion if they dont want to bother with the kids then they shouldnt have more and should quite frankly tie a knot in it.
I speak from personal experience, as my sons father did this and when my son was nearly at deaths door as a baby in hospital, i found out the father was at a engagement party
of his ex wifes sister.
Yes some men really get their priorities right dont they.

[QUOTE=willman;2875330]i understand how it must feel, but as an outsider looking in - the father should get his visitation. how many years will he not see his children on their birthdays - just because it falls on day's for which he is denied access.

What was to stop him coming to see them at the Mothers house,on the childs birthday.

[QUOTE=willman;2875330]i understand how it must feel, but as an outsider looking in - the father should get his visitation. how many years will he not see his children on their birthdays - just because it falls on day's for which he is denied access.

What was to stop him coming to see them at the Mothers house,on the childs birthday.

depends whether it's allowed or not. you can't just go breaking visitation rights if you're the father.

[QUOTE=bunnykins;2875292]tough one that is i was in a similar situation i asked if my ex could return my kids 2 hrs early(the birthday was on a sunday)instead of 7pm at 5 pm,wow what a fuss he caused 6 solicitors letters and a threat of him not seeing the kids later he agreed to returning them at 5pm.

Have i got this right, do you mean he actually threatened to not see the kids because of this.

What terrible advice.
The op states that she asked the father to have the kids on the friday because the son was upset, and later learned after telling him this, that the father was going to Liverpool.
Seems to me like youre twisting things, typical male.
Also why the hell should a mother not see her own son on his birthday, she gave birth to him after all...

Hang a sec, my reading of the OP seemed to suggest that Mum had told Dad he wouldn't be able to see the kids on his usual weekend time. I would guess he was slightly annoyed so arranged a trip away?

As for typical male twisting things.... :rant:

She gave birth to the boy, yes. Does that mean the dad has no rights? ****** does it.

What was to stop him coming to see them at the Mothers house,on the childs birthday.
After a dissagreement about access? That'll be a fun filled atmosphere then.

I sympathise with all in this unfortunate situation as my own father walked out on my mother 2 years before I was born.

Hang a sec, my reading of the OP seemed to suggest that Mum had told Dad he wouldn't be able to see the kids on his usual weekend time. I would guess he was slightly annoyed so arranged a trip away?

As for typical male twisting things.... :rant:

She gave birth to the boy, yes. Does that mean the dad has no rights? ****** does it.

If you read my post i was referring to the statement by X5X5 which implied that the mother
decided to ask the husband AFTER she knew about the Liverpool trip, which is not true
as the mother only found out he was going to Liverpool AFTER she asked him to see the child.

After a dissagreement about access? That'll be a fun filled atmosphere then.

Yes but if these visitations are just between the couple and have not yet gone through court, what would it matter.
I really dont see the couple arguing on the sons birthday, give them some credit.

Tracey1233 what do you think you might do at this point, will you let it be decided in court.

There are no rights or wrongs to this situation, but at the end of the day you are both the parents to your children. When it comes to birthdays you both want to see you child open their presents. Why could'nt your ex come to your home and see the child open the presents together, possibly have a birthday breakfast.
What was with the sudden boys weekend away? He aint even considering a compromise as he has re arranged his weekend. Your son loses out anyway.
I think you both need to talk when it comes to birthdays etc, what happens when it comes to weddings etc when they are older.

It just appears like your both just winding each other up here. As for court, there is no way you will go to court over this unless your both loaded and stupid and it doesnt appear that your either. If your ex approached a solicitor they mustrefer you to mediation the court wont even look at your case without mediation. It seems a very hectic time and its a shame the children suffer. You should both chill out and be adult about it, as for the going drinking with the mates thing ....well I would never miss time with my lad for a booze up, seems like he needs to do a bit o growing up himself (your ex that is.) It will all settle down in time. good luck

i asked my son to phone his dad if he really wanted to spent time with him on his birthday saying he could go to his dads on the friday and return on the saturday at lunch time then his dad could go out as i had spoken to his girlfriend before hand, however when my son spoke to his dad the night out suddenly turned in to a lads weekend away!! i have no problem with him seeing his kids at all and only said he couldnt in the heat of the moment, if anything i would welcome more contact with the children and there dad, but he only wants to have them when hes not busy. you see you can give access but cant force it yet he can take me to court over this and get access that he wants

Hang a sec, my reading of the OP seemed to suggest that Mum had told Dad he wouldn't be able to see the kids on his usual weekend time. I would guess he was slightly annoyed so arranged a trip away?

As for typical male twisting things.... :rant:

She gave birth to the boy, yes. Does that mean the dad has no rights? ****** does it.

Well said dafoot :thumbsup:.. I was not twisting things like tara said!! I was just saying that a father has a right to see his children on the day that
is his visitation day!!! no matter what day it falls on, and if he's refused why not make other arrangements for himself.

also the arrangment for the children is just a verbal aggreement, however i can not change it, yet there dad can call me at 4,30 on the friday night and change it, he has no problem with doing that because he knows i cant do anything about it, i cant force him to have his kids. so whatever he saids goes.

You would have to attend mediation first, think court is when all else fails. Think your ex needs to grow up. I think if you suggested sitting and talking about the issue of birthdays etc and reach an agreement that you stick to for all the boys birthdays/chrimbo then he cannot say you are not allowing him his rights. He possibly threatend you with courts in the heat of the moment, well I hope he did. I would also point out that he had the kids every weekend, that dropped down, it may be he has the children during the week one week and weekend another so that way you both get a weekend off and so on.
I think it is cruel that he told your son that he was now going away on his birthday, he must be feeling really upset to. If he is he should tell his dad this.

also the arrangment for the children is just a verbal aggreement, however i can not change it, yet there dad can call me at 4,30 on the friday night and change it, he has no problem with doing that because he knows i cant do anything about it, i cant force him to have his kids. so whatever he saids goes.

You can, they are his kids to, changing plans you cannot do that to kids. You carnt just leave the kids and do your own thing so why should he

hes told his dad that he dosnt want to see him ever again but i dont know if he was just saying that. ive spoken to someone this morning and ive decided to let the kids sort out contact themselves. if they phone their dad and he is busy then so be it. also to let them sort xmas out themselves too, as heart breaking as it maybe, im tired of all the arguing. so if they spend xmas with there dad then they will spend boxing day with me.

hes told his dad that he dosnt want to see him ever again but i dont know if he was just saying that. ive spoken to someone this morning and ive decided to let the kids sort out contact themselves. if they phone their dad and he is busy then so be it. also to let them sort xmas out themselves too, as heart breaking as it maybe, im tired of all the arguing. so if they spend xmas with there dad then they will spend boxing day with me.

Just temper tracey1233.. I think you are doing the best thing by letting the kids have a say in this problem.. then there is no come back on you or your ex. good luck tracy :thumbsup:

also the arrangment for the children is just a verbal aggreement, however i can not change it, yet there dad can call me at 4,30 on the friday night and change it, he has no problem with doing that because he knows i cant do anything about it, i cant force him to have his kids. so whatever he saids goes.

Ahh I see what you mean about forcing him to have them now! Sorry I missed some point somewhere before.

No, cancelling an agreement on the day isn't really on.

I can understand why you're getting upset now. I had thought it was just getting upset that kids would be with Dad on birthday when you wanted them.

hes told his dad that he dosnt want to see him ever again but i dont know if he was just saying that. ...

Hopefully just angry words.

My step-brother said something similar to his Dad once. Not sure if they have spoken since (that was a couple of years back). :(

hes told his dad that he dosnt want to see him ever again but i dont know if he was just saying that. ive spoken to someone this morning and ive decided to let the kids sort out contact themselves. if they phone their dad and he is busy then so be it. also to let them sort xmas out themselves too, as heart breaking as it maybe, im tired of all the arguing. so if they spend xmas with there dad then they will spend boxing day with me.

i don't want to sound patronising , but that is the adult way to deal with it.
my future son in law has a similar arrangement- this is his first year for not having them, and he's extremely upset but understands.

you see you can give access but cant force it yet he can take me to court over this and get access that he wants

He cannot take you to court to get the access he wants! Its a fact. If you speak to a solicitor they will put your mind at ease. Firstly all the children have been with you quite some time. Secondly they are all of an age now where they can say where they want to be. If This went to court which it wont. Your ex would not have a leg to stand on. When I was getting divorced I had a fantastic solicitor who told me exactly what can happen....It wasnt good because the system is biased towards women, for starters. Because you have had an arrangement that has worked for some time you should stick with it. If you cant you will go to mediation. If you still cant resolve the matter it will go to court. You cant lose, put your mind at ease and read, there is lots of information on the web to begin with. One word of warning for both of you. You may have ideas on how the children should be brought up, you may also think they are the best ideas. Put them in front of a judge you might not get anything like what you both thought and will have a court order made. That you must stick to that is no good for either of you or the children. That is the danger of going to court and of course about £15000.

I think you should tell him, that you were the one who went through the pregnancy, the birth for the 3 of your kids. He didn't. You're the one who provides for them what 12 out of every 14 days, he doesn't. You're the one who has to cope with all the stress of bringing up 3 kids. He doesn't. So, all you want, is to see your child on the morning of his birthday. I'd tell my ex to stick it elsewhere if he did what your ex is doing. I can tell you now, if I split up with my OH and my son's birthday was on a visiting weekend i'd tell him the exact same as you.

As for his pregnant OH, well when i'm due a week before and a week after. Our household is child-free. No step-kids coming. No niece coming either. So I can understand his point on that.

:)

[QUOTE=bunnykins;2875292]tough one that is i was in a similar situation i asked if my ex could return my kids 2 hrs early(the birthday was on a sunday)instead of 7pm at 5 pm,wow what a fuss he caused 6 solicitors letters and a threat of him not seeing the kids later he agreed to returning them at 5pm.

Have i got this right, do you mean he actually threatened to not see the kids because of this.



no i had to threaten him,in order to get to see my kids on there birthdays

so i took note of the conversation yesterday and asked the children to decide where they wanted to spend xmas eve, not shouting just talking, explaining that i wouldnt be cross or angry whatever they decided. all of them replied the same "we want to spend christmas eve at home with myself" going to dads house after didnner,so i called dad and told him he was ok with that. then the kids said they wanted to spend new years eve with their dad. the eldest of my kids phoned to tell him this, his reply was "if your not coming xmas eve then your not coming new years eve either. so now i feel im back at square one. giving the kids a choice and having it flung back at me. where from here???? anyone?????

so i took note of the conversation yesterday and asked the children to decide where they wanted to spend xmas eve, not shouting just talking, explaining that i wouldnt be cross or angry whatever they decided. all of them replied the same "we want to spend christmas eve at home with myself" going to dads house after didnner,so i called dad and told him he was ok with that. then the kids said they wanted to spend new years eve with their dad. the eldest of my kids phoned to tell him this, his reply was "if your not coming xmas eve then your not coming new years eve either. so now i feel im back at square one. giving the kids a choice and having it flung back at me. where from here???? anyone?????

It sounds like their Dad is operating at playground level there I'm afraid - so you're the one who needs to be adult about it. I'd suggest that you speak to him again. Stress that this was the solution the children wanted, and that it seems to you (as it does to me) a fair way of doing things; maybe you could also suggest that if you do it this way round this year, you could swap over next year - kids with him Christmas eve and with you New Years?
Explain that it's the children who'll be hurt and distressed if he's treating them this way - and allow him time to think about it.
Good luck.

It sounds like their Dad is operating at playground level there I'm afraid - so you're the one who needs to be adult about it. I'd suggest that you speak to him again. Stress that this was the solution the children wanted, and that it seems to you (as it does to me) a fair way of doing things; maybe you could also suggest that if you do it this way round this year, you could swap over next year - kids with him Christmas eve and with you New Years?
Explain that it's the children who'll be hurt and distressed if he's treating them this way - and allow him time to think about it.
Good luck.
i explained all this yesterday to him, telling him that if we did it like this then next year he could have the kids for xmas eve, his reply was plain and simple, hes having a party this new year. ive just left in now, the abusive text messages carried on till about 11 last night (i ignored them all) apart from one which said he was picking the kids up for tea tonight so i said ok as i feel he can explain, why the weekend away is so very important that he has to go and miss his sons birthday. also why the kids are not invited to his new year party. ive missed going out on new years eve for 5 years. id have thought he would want to spend some quite time with his heavily pregnant girlfriend myself, but who am i to pass comment.

Sounds like he's behaving like a spoilt child, Tracey. Such a shame, as his relationship with the kids will suffer in the long run. My best advice is to keep on trying to be reasonable and not be drawn into any slanging matches with him. Children are pretty damned sharp at figuring out who really cares for them and loves them - and they can spot a fake a mile off. If their Dad keeps changing the rules to suit himself and can't put himself out for his kids he'll end up losing their respect and they'll not want to spend time with him anyway.

I think you have done all you can, for both him the kids and more importantly the kids. He cannot help bring kids into this world and then let you take sole responsability for them, I hate the fact that he threatens you causing you more stress, but basically he really only wants to see his children when it suits him. He should not be allowed more children, he has not got time for the ones he already has. It angers me. Parents should have equal responsiblity when it concerns children.

I dont have children, though wen my parents divorced many many many years ago, my mother would not let us see my father he use to beg and pled to see us, then it ended up in court we had were interviewed by social workers and so on. I know its different now but I will never forget the hurt it caused me. Also I have never forgotten it either and i am 36. so he needs to grow up and take some responsability. I think his OH needs all the luck in the world.

I hope you can sort this out for your childrens sake. Why dont you arrange a new years party possibly with friends with kids, that way the kids get a party for New Years eve and you get to have some fun to. Also it will stop the kids thinking that their dad does not want them on NYE.

I wish you all the best of luck