Well i'm sorry, I have to say this because if what I am about to say had been done by Rafael Benitez, he would be criticesed by every fan, pundit and dog!

Sir Alex Fergerson today employed the much contraversial 'Rotation System' when he decided to rest a number of key players, one of which was Christiano Ronaldo! It backfired badly and Utd lost their second game of the season. Not only that, they were apparently, truly awfull and created very little against a Bolton side that was struggling to keep touch with the rest of the Premiership sides (except for Derby).

Now, is this acceptable? Does the fact that it was Sir Alex Ferguson that decided to rotate his squad make this decision alright?

Had Rafa rested Torres or Gerrard etc and Liverpool had lost (or even drew) against a side struggling badly, he would have come in for some major abuse from fans from all around the country!

I (for some reason) have a feeling that because it was actually Fergie that rotated his star man and lost as a consequence, all will be swept under the carpet and excuses will be flying around left, right and centre!

Rafael Benitez has had to withstand a massive amount of criticism since his arrival at Liverpool, despite the success he has achieved. Never more so however, than now, where he seems to be getting stick almost every other day!
Liverpool are only 3 points behind Utd in the Premiership, which can be cancelled out if Liverpool win the game in hand that they have over Utd! On what basis are people constantly giving their opinions on?

The answer will probably be shown in the replies regarding the reason why Fergie decided to rest his star man (a man who incidently, has already missed 3 - 4 games this season due to suspension and injury) in a match where a win would have kept Utd right on the heels of the league leaders?

Like I said... The reason Rafa gets the stick and Fergie doesn't, when they make exactly the same decision, is that :huh: huh, errrrrrrr, well, errrrrrrr it must be because :huh: :confused: God know's!!!!!!

Like I said... The reason Rafa gets the stick and Fergie doesn't, when they make exactly the same decision, is that :huh: huh, errrrrrrr, well, errrrrrrr it must be because :huh: :confused: God know's!!!!!!

Because Rafa does this kind of thing frequently, and sometimes loses crucial points as a consequence.

Because Rafa does this kind of thing frequently, and sometimes loses crucial points as a consequence.
Yeah, like Fergie has just done! Or were those points not crucial?

Yeah, like Fergie has just done! Or were those points not crucial?

Beat Me To It.:D

Beat Me To It.:D

Doesn't it just make you laugh hey :hihi:

Doesn't it just make you laugh hey :hihi:

Just Nice To Know It Can Happen To The Best Of 'Em.:)

Just Nice To Know It Can Happen To The Best Of 'Em.:)

:D Yep :D Indeed it is! :D

Yeah, like Fergie has just done! Or were those points not crucial?

This is like one of the first times that Fergie did this, and fair enough it cost him.

Rafa has done this many times! Do you not see the difference? :rolleyes:

This is like one of the first times that Fergie did this, and fair enough it cost him.

Rafa has done this many times! Do you not see the difference? :rolleyes:

You just admitted he's done the same thing. What difference?

yeh fergie knows what he doing

You just admitted he's done the same thing. What difference?

What he said! :D

Loads of teams have done it over the years.
It used to be considered unsporting to send out your 'second string' to rest the full team for a 'more important fixture'.
Fines were handed out to such as Everton, Man U and I believe it was Spurs in the 60s and 70s

Well i'm sorry, I have to say this because if what I am about to say had been done by Rafael Benitez, he would be criticesed by every fan, pundit and dog!


Rafael Benitez has had to withstand a massive amount of criticism since his arrival at Liverpool, despite the success he has achieved. Never more so however, than now, where he seems to be getting stick almost every other day!

Liverpool are only 3 points behind Utd in the Premiership, which can be cancelled out if Liverpool win the game in hand that they have over Utd! On what basis are people constantly giving their opinions on?

Like I said... The reason Rafa gets the stick and Fergie doesn't, when they make exactly the same decision, is that :huh: huh, errrrrrrr, well, errrrrrrr it must be because :huh: :confused: God know's!!!!!!

Rafa gets stick my arse!
He only gets stick in your mind, you seem to be looking for it.
Read better quality papers, don't buy the Sun.

Watch Coronation street now and again, switch off LFC TV.
Take a holiday, read a book,
Talking of books there is a new ' If you know your history' out some say it's a cracking read ;)

only just seen this thread.
Paul is right. Fergie got caught out and he had actually done this a lot in the past. If rafa had left out key players he d be getting serious criticism.
I think these dropped 3 points may be crucial. Utd had great momentum until this loss and fergie may rue his mistake today.
Liverpool level now if win their game in hand. And apparently they re having a bad season!!!!!!

Rafa gets stick my arse!
He only gets stick in your mind, you seem to be looking for it.
Read better quality papers, don't buy the Sun.

Watch Coronation street now and again, switch off LFC TV.
Take a holiday, read a book,
Talking of books there is a new ' If you know your history' out some say it's a cracking read ;)

You havin a laugh mate??? 'Rotation' is the first word out of most lazy journo's mouth when talking about Rafa. It's become boring, tedious. "Ooo the fans are sick of rotation", "ooo rafa has rotated such n such". "ooo, nearly a hundred matches". blah blah blah.

And I'm pretty certain that LFC Paul doens't read the s*n.

Rafa gets stick my arse!
He only gets stick in your mind, you seem to be looking for it.
These are quotes from you personally, in addition to other peoples posts on here, all regarding their feelings and opinions on Rafael Benitez:
Rafa Benitez had Clattenburg to thank for a pivotal victory and for respite from a fresh inquisition into his decision-making regarding team selection.
If Raffa is shown the door will it be a rotating one?
The halo has definitely slipped, but he's earned a year to screw up - maybe when he thinks his job is at stake he'll stop ******* about
No, my point was that there is some kind of myth that rafa is a great manager on a tight budget. he's outspent Fergie for chrissake and the list of failures at anfield is pretty long. As long as he keeps tinkering with his side , I m happy as Liverpools best team are a match for anyone and a real threat.
Rafa Benitez will NEVER win the English title.
I would stake my life on that.
It doesnt matter how much you throw at him, he still just doesnt "get" it Premier League wise.
To their fans its the Holy Grail, not sure it is to him.
I would not rule them out especially with 2 games against utd to come. If only Rafa left the team alone! Or on 2nd thoughts, keep tinkering away rafa!!

Ok, there is just a few of examples above, of the kind of verbal he recieves on a regular basis!

Show me some evidence, that shows any other manager in the world, getting the kind of stick Rafa does?

I could have quoted many more, but I couldn't be arsed :D

And I'm pretty certain that LFC Paul doens't read the s*n.
Not since Hillsbrough!

You havin a laugh mate??? 'Rotation' is the first word out of most lazy journo's mouth when talking about Rafa. It's become boring, tedious. "Ooo the fans are sick of rotation", "ooo rafa has rotated such n such". "ooo, nearly a hundred matches". blah blah blah.

And I'm pretty certain that LFC Paul doens't read the s*n.

Yes I am having a laugh. Life is to be enjoyed, not endured.
My post to LFCPaul is pointing out how is obsessed with his team; football is about a world of teams from young boys, and girls to the professionals. It may well be that as you say
'Rotation' is the first word out of most lazy journo's mouth when talking about Rafa”. But rotation is not a crime it is something most teams when going for more than one aim, have used, as I pointed out in my previous post No 12.
People in similar positions to Rafa do not really mind if their profile is raised by 'lazy journo's' it only servers to give them celebrity status, this is very handy for the old pension.
Whether or not people like Rafa are successful with their teams, they can use their 'fame' when finished with footie doing such salary enhancing work as TV punditry.
I am also sure Paul does not read The Sun, not many of us from Liverpool do ( he just looks at the piccies).
The clue to whether I am having a laugh was in my suggestion to Paul especially the last one about reading ' if you know your history' it is an Everton publication.

These are quotes from you personally, in addition to other peoples posts on here, all regarding their feelings and opinions on Rafael Benitez:



quote number 2
Originally Posted by Whatif wewin
Rafa Benitez had Clattenburg to thank for a pivotal victory and for respite from a fresh inquisition into his decision-making regarding team selection.


Ok, there is just a few of examples above, of the kind of verbal he recieves on a regular basis!

Show me some evidence, that shows any other manager in the world, getting the kind of stick Rafa does?

I could have quoted many more, but I couldn't be arsed :D

Your second quote is a bit cheeky, you are using a qoute supposedly from me, when it is really a quote from a newspaper that I used in my post, to show how Gerrard has been cheating, it had nothing to do with Rafa. an extract from the said post is below; if you can be arsed with the facts,

" Here are a few quotes from Sunday papers
The People.
David Moyes launched a blistering attack on Mark Clattenburg yesterday after the official sent off Everton stars Phil Neville and Tony Hibbert.
Moyes claimed Clattenburg was not fit to referee for missing the last-minute incident which seemed a clear penalty as Jamie Carragher hauled down Joleon Lescott.
Earlier, Clattenburg had sent off full back Hibbert after claims he was influenced by Kop skipper Steve Gerrard in a derby clash full of drama.
The Sunday Times.
Rafa Benitez had Clattenburg to thank for a pivotal victory and for respite from a fresh inquisition into his decision-making regarding team selection.

The Independent on Sunday
The blood-and-thunder reputation of the English derby is forged on firecrackers such as this, and deep into the night Merseyside was rocking to the sound of controversy. Everton were the understandable drumbeaters, with so many grievances to bang on about that they did not really know where to start.

Check out a few reports yourself from the media, get a balanced view.
Then try to tell us you are not blinkered".

Check out a few reports yourself from the media, get a balanced view.
Then try to tell us you are not blinkered".
:hihi: Blinkered why? Because I said Rafa gets stick? He does, it's a fact, and whether I am blinkered or not does not alter that fact!

Anyway, the crticism of Rafa has been proven to be wrong (so far anyway) as he has managed to get Liverpool to third place above Utd and with a game in hand over Chelsea with Reading up next. He has also managed to give Liverpool a very good chance of progressing in the Champions League.

Having rotated during the first part of the season, Liverpool's players should be considerably fresher than players for rival teams who have played nearly all the games for their clubs which in theory should ensure a strong push during the second half of the season (something that Liverpool notoriously do). Dannie Agger and Xabi Alonso (two of Liverpool's most classy players) are also due to return from long term injury which will strengthen the team no end, and then there is the return of Kewell who has looked very good in recent games.

It's not looking bad for a team that is being controled by a man who people claim is not up to the job is it?

:hihi: Blinkered why? Because I said Rafa gets stick? He does, it's a fact, and whether I am blinkered or not does not alter that fact!

Anyway, the crticism of Rafa has been proven to be wrong (so far anyway) as he has managed to get Liverpool to third place above Utd and with a game in hand over Chelsea with Reading up next. He has also managed to give Liverpool a very good chance of progressing in the Champions League.

Having rotated during the first part of the season, Liverpool's players should be considerably fresher than players for rival teams who have played nearly all the games for their clubs which in theory should ensure a strong push during the second half of the season (something that Liverpool notoriously do). Dannie Agger and Xabi Alonso (two of Liverpool's most classy players) are also due to return from long term injury which will strengthen the team no end, and then there is the return of Kewell who has looked very good in recent games.

It's not looking bad for a team that is being controled by a man who people claim is not up to the job is it?

That is just my point!
Who has said that Rafa is not up to the job?

:hihi: Blinkered why? Because I said Rafa gets stick? He does, it's a fact, and whether I am blinkered or not does not alter that fact!


'Blinkered'.

Blinkered was part of the quote from a previous posting.
This is the only part of my post that had relevance for you...

'Your second quote is a bit cheeky, you are using a qoute supposedly from me, when it is really a quote from a newspaper that I used in my post, to show how Gerrard has been cheating, it had nothing to do with Rafa. an extract from the said post is below; if you can be arsed with the facts,'

Obviously you can not be arsed with the facts, or are you trying to wind me up:cool:.

'Rotation' is the first word out of most lazy journo's mouth when talking about Rafa”. But rotation is not a crime it is something most teams when going for more than one aim, have used, as I pointed out in my previous post No 12.
People in similar positions to Rafa do not really mind if their profile is raised by 'lazy journo's' it only servers to give them celebrity status, this is very handy for the old pension.
Whether or not people like Rafa are successful with their teams, they can use their 'fame' when finished with footie doing such salary enhancing work as TV punditry.


Fair enough, guess you were having a laugh - forgive me for letting that one go over my head. Just a bit tired of hearing so-called experts in the game roll out the same tired journalistic memes over and over, regardless of having no basis in fact. Unfortunatley most people in the world won't bother doing their own research and will believe and absorb whatever clowns like Richard Keys and Andy Gray tell them, even if said clowns haven't bothered to research the topics they are supposedly experts in. Case in point, on the radio the other day - that Chelsea mug who was on channel 5 with the Beckahm 'soccer-ball' program, forgot his name - he was going on about how surprised he was to see Liverpool where only three points behind the mancs. "I never realised!" he quoffed, whislt chuckling along with his equally clueless cronies. What do you mean you didn't 'realise'?? Isn't it your job to realise?

Sorry, this is turning into a rant!!! :D

I don't have any problem with Rafa's roatation, and he doesn't do anything different from Fergie, Mourinho in that respect.

Now that we've won a few games on the trot, rotation isn't mentioned anymore - apparently this happy streak is because Rafa is listening to the pundits and it's because we start Crouch, and because we start Torres. (Torres was only rested for one game, Birmingham, as far as I'm aware.) Nothing to do with the fact that Rafa now has the players to support his techniques.

Yours,
One who is tired of lazy journos ;)

Now that we've won a few games on the trot, rotation isn't mentioned anymore - apparently this happy streak is because Rafa is listening to the pundits and it's because we start Crouch, and because we start Torres. (Torres was only rested for one game, Birmingham, as far as I'm aware.) Nothing to do with the fact that Rafa now has the players to support his techniques.

Yours,
One who is tired of lazy journos ;)
Below is an article regarding exactly what you are trying to explain about 'lazy journo's'. I found it summed it all up rather well:

Whether it be zonal marking or squad rotation, all too often football pundits are guilty of lazy journalism as they attempt to simplify a complex situation to explain a team's form or results.
When results go in our favour, the doomsday headlines disappear, and people quickly forget that zonal marking is not the way to defend set-pieces and that you can't win with squad rotation' When asked this week whether he thought Liverpool are serious title contenders this season, an Anfield fan - and one of Rafa's biggest critics during the period when rotation headlines were ubiquitous - responded :


"Contenders - most definitely. Will we win it? I'm not so sure, probably not this season. We still need to strengthen at left -back, right midfield and up front. However, since my original comments that we will never win the league under Rafa Benitez, there has been a significant improvement in the team's performances - especially going forward - and also an improvement in tactics and team selection though I still feel we could use the ball better at times and pass it more.

''Also, I feel in a way our injuries have helped us more than hindered us. I'm not saying we don't miss Xabi Alonso, Daniel Agger and company, but due to injuries we have been forced to pick a more settled team with less changes which in turn has led to more familiarity among players which has added to fluidity and attacking play. There's a better sense of cohesion among the players because they are getting used to playing together!''

This sounded distinctly like an attempt to exit from the back door. Yes, our form has improved since this pundit's statement that the Reds wouldn't win under Rafa - but that's because he made a major doomsday prediction when our form wobbled a bit, and he set himself up for this by getting carried away with the pessimism and negativity after a home draw or two.

As far as the claims of a more settled squad are concerned, I can understand why people would think the squad is more settled (given the absence of rotation headlines when Liverpool are winning - as I predicted would happen when rotation bashing was the fashion during our lull in form). But they'd be mistaken, since the media tend to talk about rotation only when we're losing.

In reality, Rafa has 'rotated'" 41 times since our last defeat (against Besiktas) - that's 41 changes in nine matches. In other words, an average of about 4.6 rotations per match, no fewer than he made before (in fact, above his average for the last two seasons). In fact, he made five changes from the team that drew 0-0 with Blackburn, and had we not thumped Besiktas 8-0, we'd have seen headlines about squad rotation.


Rafa then made no changes against Fulham, and there was amazement that the tinkerman extraordinaire had kept the same line-up. Six changes were made to the side to face Newcastle, and had we not won 3-0 (and it could have been 6-0 if Fernando Torres had taken his hat-trick of clear chances) we'd have again seen Alan Hansen and the other pundits going on about Rafa's rotation.


Five changes followed that match as we hosted Porto, and again, you can imagine the headlines had we not won 4-1. Then there were four more changes this past weekend, and our 4-0 win again kept the critics of squad rotation silent.

So I'm afraid the injuries haven't done anything to stop Rafa from rotating. In fact, Agger was almost never rotated before his injury, and Xabi was rotated no more or less than Javier Mascherano, Momo Sissoko and Lucas Leiva have been since he was crocked. In fact, Lucas didn't get many matches at all prior to Xabi's injury and the rotation was between the other three, while now with Alonso injured, Lucas is being rotated in and out in his place.


Our strikers are still being rotated as much as they were when the anti-rotation headlines were a fixture on the back pages. Our improvement has nothing to do with a more settled side. It is simply the big players starting to pull their weight (most notably Steven Gerrard), the team finally converting chances into goals, and a general improvement in attitude and confidence.

If you believe the scaremongers, you would have thought zonal marking was a problem in the past, and then suddenly you would forget about it once the team adapted to it and started defending well (the best defensive record in the Premier League). Similarly, if you believed the nonsense the lazy journos were printing about squad rotation, you could also have made similarly infamous statements about Liverpool never winning under a rotation-obsessed Rafa.


Now that we are putting together good results - squad rotation still withstanding - and the lazy journos have conveniently shut-up about squad rotation, it seems the Rafa-rotation critics are attempting to back-track through the back-door.

The moral of the story? Lazy journalists and knee-jerkers are half-brothers. When results don't go our way, they all start shouting "the sky is falling" and looking for simple, short answers to our problems - be it zonal marking or squad rotation. When results go in our favour, the doomsday headlines disappear, and people quickly forget that "zonal marking is not the way to defend set-pieces" (after all, empty spaces don't score goals - men do! So why are they marking empty space?) and that you can't win with squad rotation. How are players going to learn to play with each other? Never mind the fact that they train together six days a week!

In short, the next time you read a headline succinctly summarising the key to a team's form (good or bad) with a simple theory like squad rotation or zonal marking, ask yourself whether you're reading lazy journalism masquerading as football punditry. All to often, you'll find the answer is a resounding "yes"!

I don't see the point in this thread at all.

I don't see the point in this thread at all.

Then don't read it :D

Good Article, LFC Paul - is it Paul Tompkins? And yes, it does explain in more depth and alot more facts what I was trying to say!

I doubt many people will read it though, as they KNOW that Liverpool's biggest failing is rotation, and now, not starting crouch. Why doesn't Rafa listen to these people??? We would have the league tied up by now if he had!!!

Good Article, LFC Paul - is it Paul Tompkins? And yes, it does explain in more depth and alot more facts what I was trying to say!

I doubt many people will read it though, as they KNOW that Liverpool's biggest failing is rotation, and now, not starting crouch. Why doesn't Rafa listen to these people??? We would have the league tied up by now if he had!!!
I know :hihi: Considering the standard of opposition that Rafa has been up against since he took over, you would have thought we would have won 3 titles on the bounce by now :D Sounds silly, but when people claim that Rafa should have brought the title to Liverpool by now, that is what they are really saying!

The article wasn't written by Tomkins no mate, but this one is, and is just as good in terms of facts etc that show the sort of bile that people persist with coming out with:

Liverpool must be the luckiest team in the country. After all, every comprehensive victory this season has been against opposition subsequently labelled as 'rubbish'.

Why are Liverpool playing only 'rubbish' teams, when Arsenal and Manchester United beat only good teams with their 'sparkling' football?

Toulouse were beaten 4-0; but they were rubbish. Derby were beaten 6-0; but they were rubbish. Besiktas were beaten 8-0; but they were rubbish. You see the pattern. Also rubbish were Porto, Newcastle and Bolton.

To read the majority of press reports, Liverpool have not once been excellent this season –– often it's about how bad the opposition were. It's been "Liverpool played fairly well, but they didn't need to be great to beat ...”.

It's funny, but Liverpool are developing a nice habit of giving teams a bit of a pasting this season. Perhaps it could just be that Benítez's side is consistently making the opposition look bad?

Many seem to miss the point about one of Benítez's greatest strengths: namely that he's very good at planning to nullify the opposition, from which point his team can play their football.

He has often been criticised for paying too much attention to the opposition’s strengths and weaknesses, and not just sticking to his own team's strengths, but this is his way; and over the years, it's worked very impressively on the whole. It doesn't mean it will never backfire here or there, but then even the 'same every week' Reds teams of yore never won every game.

Knowledge is power, and Benítez makes sure he knows the opposition. With rotation, he also makes sure the opposition does not know what Liverpool they will be facing, which has great benefits, particularly if they are planning on stopping the Reds playing. Liverpool are never predictable, and that's a trait that should be celebrated and not, as is mostly the case, criticised.

The counter argument is that, as a result, Benítez's own players don't know each other well enough. But that's where training comes in, and the many hours spent each day working together at Melwood. It's not like the players just meet up on match-day, arriving as virtual strangers.

The criticisms of rotation have been conspicuous by their absence of late, with 21 goals scored in five games to none in reply, despite four and five changes in most of these games; only the Fulham game saw an unchanged team, and it was 0-0 until that line-up was altered with three substitutions, on the way to a 2-0 victory.

And, of course, when it comes to playing only 'rubbish' opposition, there's the fact that any Benítez team, at its best, does not allow the other side to settle for one moment on the ball, as we first saw five years ago.

Let's not forget, Liverpool hadn't suddenly become a really bad side in November 2002, but that's what Benítez's Valencia made them look. In all my years as a regular at Anfield, they were the side that impressed me the most, in that they appeared as this amazing collective –– eleven men in total unison, attacking and defending as a team; hunting in packs, attacking in clusters.

Visiting this weekend was a Bolton team unbeaten under Gary Megson, which had drawn away at Bayern Munich and last week beaten Manchester United at home. But of course, I'm forgetting something: they're rubbish.

All season long, the Reds have not had too many fixtures against teams in disarray –– at least not before the game, anyway. (A few have ended the game that way.) A shell-shocked, Mourinho-less Chelsea stumbed about in a daze at Old Trafford, but they had a 100% record, and their Portuguese boss, when they pitched up at Anfield.

Liverpool went to Blackburn when Rovers were in a long winning-run. Arsenal were unbeaten in all competitions and on a run of 12 wins in a row. Portsmouth had already got a good result at home to Man United, and had started the campaign well, as had Everton. Sunderland had that early-season zest to their play in August, and Wigan, now in the relegation zone, were in the top-half of the table at the time.

Besiktas were an experienced Champions League team who had just beaten the Reds, while Toulouse were from one of the top-five European leagues. Porto had conceded only four league goals all season before the Reds put as many past their 'rubbish' defence last week.

Only Derby were really there for the taking, and taken-apart they were. Newcastle away, even after their previous home defeat, is never an easy fixture, but the Reds started so brightly they forced the home crowd to turn against their own.

Spurs and Birmingham remain the only league results that should definitely have been better, while those games coincided with a min-slump that also included Besitkas away and Marseilles at home in the Champions League. Even then, the Besiktas fans made their home arena a tough place to visit.

All top teams have a slump (or two) at some stage of the season, but the timing is often the crucial factor.

In terms of the league, the autumn shortfall, while frustrating, hasn't been too detrimental to the campaign. The Reds are in a great position, and averaging more than two points per game, with the joint-best goal difference, suggesting that things are right at both ends of the pitch.

But it proved more costly in Europe –– lose form between December and February, or have a poor August (as United did) and you have no such worries; the same cannot be said when you have a difficult September or October.

However, playing like this, the Reds can get a result in Marseilles next week, with the French team faced with that awkward mindset of needing only a draw. I always like games where the Reds have to win, as the intensity is rarely absent in the play.

Collectively Benítez's side is clicking, and individuals are also finding their best form.

Steven Gerrard's form has been improving game-by-game for some weeks now. Sunday's game was the captain at about as good as he gets: winning tackles, bursting forward, and with his pass to Torres he recalled the days when he had Michael Owen as a willing runner for his 50-yard slide-rule through-balls. (Except, or course, Torres is an even better forward, with more skill and a greater physical presence, as well as a great capacity to work hard for the team.)

One area where Gerrard has been a little inconsistent in the past is in his set-piece deliveries, given the quality he possesses in that right boot.

But in the last three games the Reds have scored from three of his corners and a free-kick delivered into the box, as well as an indirect free-kick struck ferociously against Newcastle, followed by two penalties. The shape on his deliveries into the box, and the pace when whipping in the ball is perfect right now, allowing players like Crouch and Hyypia the advantage when attacking them.

Gerrard is also a good penalty taker, but he's never been up there with Matt Le Tissier, who missed only one from 49 attempts, or Jan Molby, who notched 42 from 45. His overall record is a little better than two scored out of every three.

However, he's striking some unstoppable ones right now, to either side of the keeper, and after a start to the season where the Reds couldn't win a penalty for love nor money (purely a saying, I hasten to add) and yet could concede them for merely looking at an opponent, it helps towards getting three points.

Another bonus against Bolton came from the substitutes, which is a growing trend this season. Jack Hobbs is progressing nicely, and he enjoyed an assured league debut when replacing Jamie Carragher.

I hate it when I see people suggesting throwing in the youngsters as there's "nothing to lose". There are games to lose and, if the kid in question is not yet ready, there's his confidence –– and, subsequently, his career at Liverpool –– to lose, too. Managers know when the time is right; they work with these players every day. They monitor their development to the nth degree.

Equally, I hate seeing youngsters instantly written off after a bad display. I couldn't believe some of the stuff that was said about Hobbs not being good enough when he struggled in pre-season a couple of years back ... at the age of 17!

Along with goalkeeper, centre-back is the position where it's hardest for youngsters, because so much of the role is about learning from experience and from not making any errors. A teenage Michael Owen could miss three sitters but if he scored a goal, it was job done; a teenage Jamie Carragher only had to make one or two mistakes in a game to see his credentials doubted.

And while it's harder to get the ball past the goalkeeper and into that small area between the posts than it is to get the ball out of harm's way (in that you can boot the ball pretty much anywhere), if a forward mis-controls the ball there's no harm done; if a centre-back does so, it can quickly lead to disaster.

Sami Hyppia was rejected by a number of English clubs in his early twenties, including Oldham. Hyypia, who has been around so long it feels like he was also born in the early '20s, is currently showing that, even with zero pace, the accumulation of experience, and how it adds to the art of positioning, can keep you at the top-level at an age when most forwards have long-since retired.

In Carragher, Agger and Hyypia, Hobbs has some excellent colleagues to learn from, and from what I've seen he has some of the qualities of each. He has Hyypia's height, Carragher's determination and leadership skills, and some of Agger's quality on the ball. It's early days, but he has the potential to one day be up there with his illustrious elders. And at this stage of his career, that's the best anyone can expect.

Elsewhere, Ryan Babel, at just 20, is looking less like a prospect and more like someone who's nearly ready to take the league by storm, while Lucas, also 20, is settling very nicely into the midfield. And I don't think that Emiliano Insua, who made his league debut last season aged 17, is that far away from pushing for a place in the first-team squad. And that's not even mentioning some of the youngsters doing so well out on loan.

It seems that, at long last, the Reds have some top-quality youngsters capable of gracing the team for years to come.

When you consider that Torres and Mascherano are just 23, Agger and Sissoko are still only 22, and the plethora of top Premiership players in their mid-20s (Reina, Alonso, Arbeloa, Crouch, Gerrard and Benayoun, to name just a few), any current optimism should stretch well beyond the end of this season.