The government would like to see legislation put through on every human being in the UK to have there DNA taken, of course the Human rights assoc would intervene and rightly so.
Another alternative is to take DNA from birth.
Any thoughts on this matter.

You are one hundred percent right Spacehopper, it is only common sense to have everyones D.N.A. taken from birth to cut the rate of crime. It is no use comlaining about the amount of lawbreaking if we are not prepared to do something about it.

Decent citizens have nothing to fear from having their samples stored on a computer base, it is only the wrongdooers who are afraid of having their crimes exposed.

Originally posted by halevan
You are one hundred percent right Spacehopper, it is only common sense to have everyones D.N.A. taken from birth to cut the rate of crime. It is no use comlaining about the amount of lawbreaking if we are not prepared to do something about it.


I'm sure it will handy for the powers that be to have the DNA of commoners, but exactly how will this prevent white-collar crimes such as fraud etc?

Originally posted by halevan
Decent citizens have nothing to fear from having their samples stored on a computer base, it is only the wrongdooers who are afraid of having their crimes exposed. [/B]

Tell that to the Birmingham Six, mate! Sixteen years in the slammer!

Originally posted by Spacehopper
8) Nah Den Ace.........

Sounds like a good idea! Invasion of human rights/civil liberties is surely a small price to pay if it cleared our streets of rapists/murderers/etc.

Did any of you read the Mirror at the weekend? There was a shocking story about rapists and paedophiles who were released after very short sentences to commit the same acts again.

How exactly did having their DNA on record help their victims?

Perhaps it's the entire justice and legal system that's in need of 'modernisation and efficiency' - the politically correct term for redundancy

I agree with it, and I'm pretty sure there is already a growing DNA record for most of us already!!

If you have nothing to hide, your not a rapist etc etc ten what have you got to lose??

Al :)

Having a national database of DNA would be welcomed in my book.

Where a crime is committed and DNA of the criminal/suspect is gathered at the scene, it would vital.

This in turn would be a very powerful deterrant for any wouldbe rapist/murderer etc out there.

Welcomed in my book, I have nothing to hide!

Good idea. Once we've got rid of all the rapists and murderers we can concentrate on other crimes. We can track down people who distribute political tracts which attack the government, using dna we can identify litter bugs, people who spit in the street, people who leave chewing gum everywhere, people who turn down corners of library books, children who are called short who's mothers hold them up above drains to pee, people who leave glasses on windowsills outside pubs, people who don't flush the toilet, or leave the seat up/down, women who leave lipstick stains on glasses, etc., etc.

Oh, the list is endless and what a lovely police state we would be living in.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
Having a national database of DNA would be welcomed in my book.

Where a crime is committed and DNA of the criminal/suspect is gathered at the scene, it would vital.

This in turn would be a very powerful deterrant for any wouldbe rapist/murderer etc out there.

Welcomed in my book, I have nothing to hide!

nothing to hide from the police, certainly. But would you like your insurance company to have full access without your permission.

Rest assured, if the UK national DNA database is created, then that information will not be fully secured. HOLMES, the NCIS computer intelligence system, is regularly mined by journos with good contacts, and private investigators with some wads of cash. You can be sure the national DNA database will be the same.

And just imagine how secure that database will be if it is managed by a private company.

Your DNA will soon become very sensitive economic information that will govern the cost and the course of your life. Those are cards I'd like to play a little closer to my chest - why should I give out this information for free, what incentives are there?

Perhaps we should all have tiny GPS transponders in our head too, so the police could track our movements 24/7 - after all we have nothing to hide.

I think the money would be better spent on crime prevention than detection for the small percentage of cases where it is really useful.

I understand what you're saying Phan and if I'm honest I haven't really thought that far ahead.

Does sound scary from that perspective.

However, which is more important... your insurance or the possibility of stopping someone from being raped?

Originally posted by Spacehopper
8) Nah Den Ace.........



.............sounds great.........when does it start?!!!!!!

This does sound like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Of course any dna databank would have to be protected. Also, if you're worried about privacy, think about the data that is already held about you - if you've ever been arrested your fingerprints will be on file (now dna as well), when you give your credit card for a purchase that holds very sensitive information, NI number, driving licence, library cary, store reward card, etc. We've all got information stored about us.

Personally, I am not worried by my DNA being on a database. It is just the latest method of identifying someone. As I said before invasion of human rights/civil liberties is surely a small price to pay if it cleared our streets of rapists/murderers/etc.

Regards,

Spacehopper.
Fine, if it did clear our streets of 'rapists murderers etc'.

But it won't. It's not preventative, is it? It only helps after the crime has been committed, so expect no drop in murder/rape numbers, although I grant you you will see an improvement in the detection rates.

And It cannot be fully secure - no system can. The more secure you think it is, the greater sense of false security you have.

The reason the police are so keen is because it saves them a shedload of money and time - i.e it is very convenient - but it ain't a magic bullet.

And when you consider that most murdered people are murdered by a relative, it makes DNA matching a bit pointless.

It's more than just the latest method of identifying someone (it's been around for 15 years) - it's a complete blueprint for building another you, with all your inherent strengths and weakenesses on record. All that is required isthe mechanism for reading it.

There simply isn't a comparable amnount of information you could disclose about yourself, this is the encyclopaedia of you.

However, you can do something about it. Go to the gadget shop and buy their DNA testing kit (£15). Get your Genome fuly sequenced and then you can patent and copyright it, making it illegal for anyone else to produce copies in tha laboratory.

Now either the govt tighten up their rules on the (criminal) practice of allowing genetic sequences to be patented, or the exempt you from the DNA database under threat of a civil suit.

It's mere conjecture on my part that last bit, but worth speculating about.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
I understand what you're saying Phan and if I'm honest I haven't really thought that far ahead.

Does sound scary from that perspective.

However, which is more important... your insurance or the possibility of stopping someone from being raped?
Just to reiterate, it won't stop people getting raped, it will assist in the detection of rapists.

Now I admit that the Police and the CPS have a poor record prosecuting rape, for a number of reasons, and that DNA testing, where appropriate (not useful in all cases) could help them get more convictions.

But you could double the detection rate by improving the reception women get from the police, and try and get them to report the estimated 50-60% of rapes that are never reported.

This horrifyingly low figure is due in no small part to the perception of how police and courts have treated rape victims in the past (famously: 'She was asking for it by wearing a short skirt' said the judge).

It will prevent them from happening... because the would be rapist will know that his details are on file, thus deterring him.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
It will prevent them from happening... because the would be rapist will know that his details are on file, thus deterring him.
I have to disagree.

Rape and murder, unless they are heavily premeditated (in which case you are dealing with a psychopathic personality who doesn't care about the consequences even if they can see them) are often impulse crimes, often carried out when drunk and in a state of extreme excitement or arousal.

They do the deed without thought for the consequences, and then try to evade detection. And then when they are caught and their lies are exposed, they will usually admit to having sex with the victim but will try and argue it was consensual. This is pretty much standard procedure for alleged rapists.

I freely admit that in some cases the DNA database might dissuade potential rapists, but even then, it might just persuade them to wear a condom and gloves.

It won't prevent rape because DNA can only prove that intercourse took place, it cannot prove whether there was consent or not.

DNA is only circumstantial evidence and does not (on it's own) prove rape, murder or any other crime. Whilst a DNA database may help to solve some additional crimes I think that in our "no smoke without fire" culture it will also lead to more cases of innocent people being convicted.

Whilst the idea is fine and noble the reality is that holding everyone's DNA on a database is sure to lead to abuse, whether it is by governments, police, unscrupulous organisations or companies... it is simply too tempting. In my opinion it is too high a price to pay.

[

Originally posted by spook1210
Hmmm you often talk a lot of sense Phanerothyme but on this one I think you're wrong. You show me an example of when HOLMES has been compromised and I'll agree with you. Also do you actually know what HOLMES is used for?
OK, you caught me red handed with exagerrated hearsay!

HOLMES is a evidence databank AFAIK.

And I see it has been superceded by HOLMES2 an even better system, although there have been some critics of it's'inherent security problems' - of which I know nothing.

Can you assure me that there is no police corruption where Police databases are concerned? I suppose I am making a presumption of guilt, but I would support it with the question, have you known any large organisation to be entirely free of corruption?

My point is if you collect all the DNA data together, what you have is an incredibly valuable and powerful resource, the misuse of which could wreak seismic effects on individuals and population groups.

And no institution or organisation has the sheer ironclad trustworthiness required to hold that information safely and without prejudice, nor can one ever have IMO.

what if you were innocently walking along and you spat out some chewing gum and minutes later a murderer dragged someone along to that same place and killed them.

oh no theres nothing worse

.