I wonder if those who support the conservative party trully beleive that the tory party under the leadership of Micheal Howard are capable of winning the general election?
I find some comments from him on immigration and law and order to be going in the right direction and at least he seems to listen to what concerns the voters unlike Blair.
It is good that he has taken the party in the right wing direction and has given the voters something to think about.

I think Michael Howard ---or rather the Tory Party in general---now have a problem that they ought never to have had. The problem is , people are asking ,
"Has it only just occured to the Tories what a state our country is in ? " They ask this because Britain has been , morally . going down the Swanee for the past 30 years and the Tories have done as little as Labour to stem the tide.
{Incidentally , people are asking the same question about Blair and Band wagons. As soon as "Old" Labour looked unelectable , up pops ex--pop singer Tony and his Pseudo- Tory policies. Both parties look increasingly opportunistic and I think they are }. Howard is as good as anybody , I suppose to lead the Tories , but the Tories will not get in because their policies are better than Labour 's but simply by how the electorate happen to be feeling that particular week.
This should give your party a big boost because people can't see that much differnce in the mainsteam Parties---certainly not in principles.
[ Before anybody points it out , I know that Britain has got richer in the last 30 years but so have most other Developed countries . We've been getting richer for about 200 years in general. Well , big deal ! --but we'd like a richer AND a more decent society ].

In my opinion the only kind of tory party which would succeed now over the labour lot would be a kind of "Ken clark less obnoxious" type of party. They have damaged themselves by changing their leader too often, and it has become a bad joke. Everyone expects that Howard will resign in 4 months, after loosing the election. What he ought to do is stay on, into his older age and remain as their leader until Blair goes. I think that is the key for the opposition. Hopefully by then Hague will be a polished and worthy performer.

Roy, you really love setting up these polls, don't you? However, it's a little difficult to take you seriously as a political pundit when you can't even spell Michael Howard's name correctly. Surely it can't be that hard to check?

Originally posted by mojoworking
Roy, you really love setting up these polls, don't you? However, it's a little difficult to take you seriously as a political pundit when you can't even spell Michael Howard's name correctly. Surely it can't be that hard to check?

Oh Lordy I have just reread Roy's first post. Crikey, should he be allowed to use a keyboard? I think not!

trully
beleive
Micheal

As a half Tory I voted "No".

Howard is exactly what the Torys want to stray from IMO.

Liam Fox is the way forward for the Tory's, Its only a matter of time before he becomes leader.

oh stop being so stuffy, you knew what he meant even though it was spelt wrongly.

Call him Mick, its easier!!!!!!

I think the poll options should be:

1.certainly not
2.definitely not
3.possibly - by retiring to spend time with his bats.

Nothing worse that people being snobish is there about punctuation,get to the debate and stop being a snob.
I dont think the tory party can win but they can reduce the labour majority quite a bit and I hope they do.

Accordintg to D.Express and another (usually totally unreliable) opinion poll the gap is now only 1%.Apparently this is after his immigration curb speech.Maybe he is trying to get the BNP vote?

I dont think he will get the BNP vote,what he is doing is reflecting the worries and views of many people on the immigration and asylum issue.
I feel the tory party and certainly more in touch with the voters on immigation and law and order.

Originally posted by royjames
Nothing worse that people being snobish is there about punctuation,get to the debate and stop being a snob.
I dont think the tory party can win but they can reduce the labour majority quite a bit and I hope they do.

It's not punctuation Roy, it's spelling. They are two different things. How can we take you seriously if you can't spell the object of your derision?

Oh pleeeeease,you know what I meant so thats all that matters.
Ingage in debate about the issue not the spelling plz.

See my post in the thread about Lib Dems being an alternative to labour.
Can anyone tell me which political party can confirm that they will tackle all the issues that I mentioned.

Whichever one can confirm that, they will get my vote.
It is so hanging in the balance for me.

Michael Howard is not charimatic enough.
They need a leader with flair and determination.
someone who can demonstrate that they are truly in the fight to help people and not just in it for their own self worth.
Tony Blair has the charisma and is a great front man for the labour party.
Why do you think he is the leader.
Gordon brown is a much more able politician but he does not have the charisma.
Have you heard the saying in marketing that people will buy from you if they like you.

That says it all!
It is not about what he is selling, it is reallly how the public perceive him .I know that this is shallow, but it is all part of the human psyche.

Originally posted by royjames
I dont think he will get the BNP vote,what he is doing is reflecting the worries and views of many people on the immigration and asylum issue.
I feel the tory party and certainly more in touch with the voters on immigation and law and order.
I have got to agree with you on this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/thy598uk/nimm128big.gif

The figures in that poll are very interesting. It seems that Howard's electoral ploy on immigration/asylum has increased backing for the CONS by just 2% which must be a severe disappointment to them. They would have been looking for at least 4-5% increased poll ratings.

And the important thing is where are these increased votes going to be cast when the general election comes? Are they going to help the CONS win back close Labour/CON marginal seats like Hornchurch (Lab Majority 1,500 or so) or are the CONS going to increase their majorities in already safe Tory seats like William Hague's Richmond, North Yorkshire (Tory majority 16,000)?

It looks as though trickster Howard's blatant con isn't going to work as well he hoped because that opinion poll says that 58% of people thought Howard's motive was "because he desperately wants to win votes for his party" as opposed to just 36% who think that Howard "genuinely believes that immigration should be limited".

In private eye, they call the telegraph the Torygraph. It would be interesting to see a similar poll in the guardian, I bet it would be much less close between the Labs and the Cons.

Having said that I heard on Radio4 that the Labs are about to launch some controversal advertising, which depicts Howard as Fagan, "picking a pocket or two". It's possible that this might backfire on the Labs a a racist campaign, because Fagan is code for something in Yiddish which isn't very nice, and this is playing very heavily on Howards Jewishness, as well as getting one back on Satchi the Jewish Advertising guru, who put the devil's eyes on Blair.

It will be interesting to see what difference this makes in the next few weeks. Will the floating voter decent-type sometimes labour supporter, be put off by this personal and undignified campaign?

I accept the criticism of the Telegraph not being unbiased. I too would love to see the Guardian's poll, if they do one.
PS I'm not a Tory supporter.

Originally posted by muddycoffee
Having said that I heard on Radio4 that the Labs are about to launch some controversal advertising, which depicts Howard as Fagan, "picking a pocket or two".

That was Heseltine's trick - he even sang the song , pretending to be Fagin/John Smith - at Tory party conference.

The labour poster depicts howard and letwin as flying pigs (a clever and witty reference to their economic policies.)

There was some debate as whether this consituted anti-semitic imagery, but plenty of people would be offended to be depicted as a flying pig, and only a handful of objectors made themselves known. Regular representatives of British Jewry have been far less condemnatory..

I got an email from the Labour Party asking me to vote on a number of possible posters, and I voted for the flying pigs one. It never even crossed my mind some people would decide to cry racism over it. To me it is simply a poster saying that if the tories' tax ideas add up, pigs would fly. Very good poster in my opinion. :thumbsup:

74.42% think not.

Well that's us buggered for another 4 years then!

Can Michael Howard win the general election for the Tory party?

Probably not. His best hope is that Tony Blair wins it for the Tory party. The protest vote is the one he should be after.

Yes, it is probably typical though of any poll done in South Yorkshire.It is not a surprise at all to me.
Whether that is representative of the feelings of the whole country is another matter.
74% is a big no no.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
There was some debate as whether this consituted anti-semitic imagery, but plenty of people would be offended to be depicted as a flying pig, and only a handful of objectors made themselves known. Regular representatives of British Jewry have been far less condemnatory..

That was on the radio this morning, it's all gone a bit far, I didn't think he looked like Fagin and the flying pigs complaint is just silly.
I hope Zurich Insurance are going to get rid of the flying pigs in their advert, if they are so offensive.
One sure way is to get the posters removed is to suggest they are anti-semitic, which I think is what the Tories have done to a few well-know Jewish people.

Originally posted by Patchy
I got an email from the Labour Party asking me to vote on a number of possible posters, and I voted for the flying pigs one. It never even crossed my mind some people would decide to cry racism over it. To me it is simply a poster saying that if the tories' tax ideas add up, pigs would fly. Very good poster in my opinion. :thumbsup:

Well since the margin of error in the national accounts is in the region of 8-10 billion quid, any pronouncements on budgetary matters should be taken with a pinch of salt, whoever makes them.

As far as electioneering goes, the poster is lame. Not racist or anti-semitic - just a total dead duck in terms of humour. Retorting "and pigs might fly!" to a proposition is the discourse of drunken old fools....

I would prefer a poster along the lines of:

"We know you think we screwed up on Iraq. Well we did, big style, and we are ending the careers of Straw & Hoon today. Expelled from the labour party for gross misconduct, duplicity, and conspiring to illegally invade another country in contravention of international law and consensus. We're also dumping Tony for Gordon in an effort to get your votes back (and our sorry arses back into parliament).

~signed - The Parliamentary Labour Party

p.s we're really sorry for electing these sheep in wolves clothing and we won't do it again."

Then they'd get my vote, maybe.

I think that bringing up the asylum issue is designed to get core Tory supporters out, not aimed at winning the election, but aimed at not being humiliated again - which will give them more power in parliament, more respect from the press, and hopefully (for them, not me!) give them a good shot at winning the election after that.

And obviously from Howard's point of view, keeping him in a job.

Obviously no Tory is going to come out and admit this is their strategy, they aren't that daft, but it is a recognised strategy that has been done before.

Originally posted by Yodameister
I think that bringing up the asylum issue is designed to get core Tory supporters out, not aimed at winning the election, but aimed at not being humiliated again

But this is an important issue people feel strongly about. Its not about votes.

Two words - poll tax

Originally posted by Skatiechik
But this is an important issue people feel strongly about. Its not about votes.

So an issue that the Tories are campaigning on has nothing to do with trying to win votes?

You could say exactly the same about any issue I suppose. Is it not possible it could be about both, that is kind of the idea of democracy - important issues equate with votes.