What does anyone think about kids that don't ever attend school, are constantly abusive and disruptive, getting more privillages than our children that have worked hard as they can, and attends school regulary. My son as recently been turned down at castle college, but yet his friend who never attended school and when he did was constantly disruptive, was taken out of school to attend other activities ( fun activities i must ad) and because of this he automatically gets a place at castle college due to his hard work within these other activities, which are not always school work based.
This really gets my goat, ( could have said something worse) then when my son as a few days off he gets letters saying they are taking me to court. How do these kids get away with it and why do they benefit when mine only suffers.....
I would appreciate some feed back on this as it totally confuses me....

It's due to the liberal belief system that has taken over most of Britains establishments - education/social care being prime areas.

In their eyes these summy g*ts are the victims!

I could go on and on but somebody will just say I'm a "right wing recationary" which basically mean they can't actually have a debate as they know they are wrong...

Originally posted by barny_100
It's due to the liberal belief system that has taken over most of Britains establishments - education/social care being prime areas.

In their eyes these summy g*ts are the victims!

I could go on and on but somebody will just say I'm a "right wing recationary" which basically mean they can't actually have a debate as they know they are wrong...

Not at all... I've just been out for lunch and a group of teenage boys were throwing sweets at people as they went past. I walked up to them and simply asked them, "Why are you not in school?". A few mumbled obscenities later I realised the scummy little brats have probably never spent more than five minutes in the classroom - ever and that goes for their parents too!

Originally posted by barny_100
It's due to the liberal belief system that has taken over most of Britains establishments - education/social care being prime areas.

In their eyes these summy g*ts are the victims!

I could go on and on but somebody will just say I'm a "right wing recationary" which basically mean they can't actually have a debate as they know they are wrong...

Anyone who disagrees with you knows they are wrong?

well thats a very constructive attitude,isn't it?

As you are so obviously right about everything its really not worth anyones while contributing to this debate is it?

But for what its worth, I think the issue is a little more complicated than you are assuming.

What is your solution for dealing with these problem kids? I hope you don't think that the police should be wasting their time sorting these kids out and making them go to school?

The advised theory, governed by Ofsted and so on is:
Praise good behaviour and try not to focus on the bad behaviour.
Take the earliest opportunity to praise an improvement in behaviour.
Give children an incentive, like housepoints for example, though most schools have other systems these days.

And there's a 5 strikes and out rule in one company I know about although I prefer 3 strikes and out. Kids don't count how many times they've been warned normally and 5 is excessive, at least with three warnings you dont have to put up with another 4 occasions of bad behaviour before you can do something about it.

I'm led to understand that caning was made illegal in 1987 and it has to be said that there has been an incredible drop in the standards of behaviour ever since. Too much American 'sue you' culture and restraints on what adults can do to control kids. Ther problem is - they know it and as children invariably do, they are abusing the system.
Someone who works in the education authority tells me that we are now on 3rd generation hooligans and miscreants. I'm half inclined to agree.
As I work with children, some in some nightmare areas, I've seen some of the more recent results of child protection and behaviour policies and in the last 10 years things have changed, pretty soon we're going to need adult protection policy.
The priveliges issue is based on rewarding good behaviour and trying to over look bad behaviour. I reckon a damn good caning would sort that out a bit faster. I often find that people in their 40s and 50s have an entirely different attitude to life and behaviour, because they were ruled strictly in their youth, unfortuntely there are also a lot of pillocks who escaped a decent upbringing.
Enough said, this one is too close to my heart.

If your son is desperate to go to Castle, ring and speak to someone and tell them what you told us, you have a valid argument based onw what you've written though I don't know the full story.

I used to know a lad who stopped attending school aged about thirteen, I went to the LEA asking for help and didn't get much if any at all, their opinion seemed to be
'Yes, we know all about him, he's a really disruptive influence in the classroom and he needs to be in a specialised teaching group'.
Then nothing for weeks and weeks then he got in to a specialised class that had him for a month before trying to introduce him to mainstream schooling. Surprise, surprise he played up, wouldn't go and the LEA did absolutely nothing.
When kids start to be taught again that there are nasty repercussions to their bad behaviour then we might see a change, until then just expect to see and hear more and more stories of kids who don't seem to understand about boundaries and the do-gooders who say the kid is the victim.

The LEA now run a vocational skills programme for Entry level learners (those who have been expelled or left school because they have been bullied) for learners age 14-16. They are placed with a company for certain days in the week where they are re-engaged in a form of learning. This can include playing computer games, fixing go Karts and then riding around in them, going on outdoor pursuits, etc.

Where this may seen to be fun tasks which are unfair for those in full time education, you are dealing with learners who may have ADHD (or however it is spelt), special learning needs, disruptive behaviour or may have been out of school for so long they have trouble interacting with other kids.

They don't just have the fun tasks to do, they have to build a written portfolio to prove to OFSTED that what they do is proactive, teaches skills such as team work, analysis, basic skills and so on. Getting them into a routine is important. Some may return to school eventually, others may progress on to different courses after the age of 16.

Originally posted by Zebra
I'm led to understand that caning was made illegal in 1987 and it has to be said that there has been an incredible drop in the standards of behaviour ever since.
Interestingly this increasingly bad behaviour has coincided with increasingly excellent educational attainment.
Question: can we have it both ways?

Originally posted by Voise
Interestingly this increasingly bad behaviour has coincided with increasingly excellent educational attainment.
Question: can we have it both ways?

A while back on this forum there was a discussion about whether children were getting better when it came to educational attainments. I wasn't sure as I'd not at that time seen a current exam paper, I have now though and have to say kids may be getting better exam qualifications but the geography paper i looked at was so easy in comparison to theO level paper I did many years ago.
There is a school out near Renishaw that has excellent academic records and has a much firmer set of rules of condust so yes you can have both.

Well from my experiance from friend's and even starting to see it in my own little brother. it all begins with the children who's partents dont give a damn, and these kids bring down as many as they can with them.. I'v personally seen parents near enough in tears when they recived a letters home so i cant agree with the people who say its all the parents faults. The truth is the kids who misbehave have the easy life and i cant really blame the others for catching on. Why should they do all this work when they can get the teachers to near enough do it for them?? and then reward them for it!? :loopy: The reward system doesnt work and if anything it makes things worse. I dont want the teachers to start beating kids silly like some of you will suggest but instead start taking away the fun activities (e.g. PE, Art etc) from those who misbehave and start making life just a bit harder for them by sending as many letters home as possible and maybe a few phone calls, I know this wont always work or maybe not at all but i dont think things could get any worse than they are now. god this is bringing back memories when i was at school and how unfair i thought things were, thank god im at college now. :)

Originally posted by Voise
Interestingly this increasingly bad behaviour has coincided with increasingly excellent educational attainment.


Sorry if it sounds a bit patronising, but I have to wonder how the current crop of 16 year-olds would fare if they had to take the "O" level papers we had in 1956 - I doubt if some of them could even pass the Eleven Plus exams in English and Maths we had in 1951.

At secondary school we got slippered in front of the class for not handing in homework without a very good excuse, and caned for truancy. Certainly we resented the punishments but we were careful to avoid them by toeing the line and I don't remember such punishments being very common.

What amazes me is that exclusion now serves as a supposed punishment or deterrent for disruptive pupils, but my suspicion is that exclusion is precisely what many of them are aiming for. Released from what they see as the imprisonment and drudgery of school they are free to pursue a life of doing whatever they please, from just lounging around to engaging in petty and even serious crime.

My 'old fogey' opinion is that society in the long term will regret these past years of allowing our children to rule the roost, excusing bad behaviour with PC mumbo-jumbo, and rewarding intransigence with a total lack of supervision. Binge-drinking and increasing drug abuse are just two symptoms of the general malaise of youth today, but perhaps the most worring aspect is the inreasing resort to violence, both towards each other and, more alarmingly, towards defenceless old people in their own homes.

Changed my mind! - don't want to get into an old argument off topic.

It looks as though bad kids might be a good investment...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1400386,00.html

...but I find it a bit hard to swallow that LAs would be prepared to spend from £3000 to £6000 per week on housing and re-educating hard to deal with kids. OTOH with Sheffield CC's record of hiving off it's responsibilities to the private sector anything is possible :loopy:

The first school I worked in was the classic "lets take the naughty and disruptive kids go-carting or to american adventure" literally. The school i now work in has no such policies. Guess which has the best behaviour? I know its not as simple as that with catchments etc but in my experience kids have a sixth sense when it comes to things like this.

I think that it is disgusting that children who are constantly getting more privilages than children who always behave and attend school regularly!! Those children who never do anything wrong and who are always working hard rarely get rewards. Yet those that never work hard and dont attend school often are always going on day trips and gettin all the attention!!! i think it's about time children started to react to this and complain!!! If the good children never get any incentives they are going to start wondering why and soon enough they will probably think well they only way they are going to get incentives is if they start misbehaving and not attending school regularly. this will result in the children's grades dropping and eventually there future going down the drain!!! Why do the teachers want to waste their time on the misbehaved children when they should be concentrating on the behaved children who have pertential!!!