Try as I might, I just can't get into it - it bores me to death.
What do you think of hiphop?

Modern day poetry? Rubbish! Just how many words actually rhyme with "bitch"?

John Entwistle
I can't stand rap....people who can't sing do rap....you can sing rebellion as well as talk it....Hitler would have been in a rap band

Hehe he says it best.....

Rap/hiphop/garage whatever is worse than pop music in my mind.

Please don't get me started on how bad it is, people who rap are not musicians....

Now getting close to the era when I become a middle aged spreadie. I would like to give an open minded view about these modern forms of music. I am fundamentally musiscian and a rock fan. And as I suffer to improve my art and enjoyment of my prefered music genres, I often find myself stretched in to other places, where I am impressed with a crossover or pure form of some kind of music that I have previously dismiised as complete arse.
I have been made to eat my words on a few occasions. Hip hop was invented and coined by the "Sugar hill gang" and that stuff is well worth a listen, and "beastie boys" are a rap group who straddle the gap between rap and very impressive talent.

If you are complaining about rap which you have heard on the radio it is because the stuff on the radio is heavily sensored and the best stuff cannot be aired.

Though watered down, "Rapture" by blondie is a rap song, and if you are driving your car while listening to it I defy you to keep to the speed limit.... ... .. . . . . . .

Originally posted by IanMitchell
Please don't get me started on how bad it is, people who rap are not musicians....
D'yer Mak'er ?
Apart from it's surprising resemblence to the "Police every breath you take" it is the same structure and rhythm as a rap tune and if released today exactly the same by an artist with a dark face would go straight into the rap charts.

"beastie boys" are a rap group who straddle the gap between rap and very impressive talent.

Musically, I'd say the Beasties were rock, except they spoke (shouted?) rather than sang.

Originally posted by muddycoffee
D'yer Mak'er ?
Apart from it's surprising resemblence to the "Police every breath you take" it is the same structure and rhythm as a rap tune and if released today exactly the same by an artist with a dark face would go straight into the rap charts.

I would class that as a Reggae sound rather than what I'd associate with rap......

Don't try and associate my guys with rap :P

Oh come on Muddy! . . Rap is a fantastic form of expression, I'd go so far as to say it is more expressive than that stuff you call rock music which is all just a load of electric guitar twanging er . . . noise!:hihi:

With some of the greater rappers Tupac, Biggie etc ( those who are now mostly dead ) . . the lyrics and the style and the emphasis on life etc . . were so skillfully mixed to produce amazing songs that you cant touch it!

Originally posted by Lestat
Oh come on Muddy! . . Rap is a fantastic form of expression, I'd go so far as to say it is more expressive than that stuff you call rock music which is all just a load of electric guitar twanging er . . . noise!:hihi:


You had better be joking there lestat..... you're on thin ice with hot skates!

Sorry to be pedantic chillicat, but you missed the capital 'C' off of 'rap' in the thread title.:thumbsup:

ive promised myself not to get mad. *breath in....breath out*. If you dont like it dont listen, simple as that.

PS. i hope when referring to rap you are not referring to the like of 50 cent etc. as they are NOT rap.

sorry A_partridge but I hear it all the time on ALL radio stations and on full volume at 7:30 in the morning from my sisters room.

It irritates me....

i totally agree that every rap song played on radio is absolute rubbish. It makes me sick that the music i love is represented to the public by idiots only interesed in swearings and talking about cars.

What kind of rap do you like then??

........ and from every bloody rust bucket with a spotty young drive that passes our house!:loopy:

*What kind of rap do you like then??*

Ok so you probabily wont like any rap if you dont like the comercial stuff, im just trying to say that its not all guns, and gangsters over a beat which sounds like it was made by a two year old.

Originally posted by Lestat
With some of the greater rappers Tupac, Biggie etc ( those who are now mostly dead ) . . the lyrics and the style and the emphasis on life etc . . were so skillfully mixed to produce amazing songs that you cant touch it!
A lad who I know, who likes rap & h/h as his principle, agrees with me, about the worthless stuff which is pedalled by these two dead guys people, saying if it were any good then it would have been released when they were alive. But there must be a reason why it is not.
I don't claim to be any expert here..

I have learned to my great advantage, a decade and a half ago, from much greater musiscians than myself, that you should be as broad minded as possible. And would like to refuse to slag off a vibrant style of music, which I don't fully understand.

Originally posted by A_Partridge
Ok so you probabily wont like any rap if you dont like the comercial stuff, im just trying to say that its not all guns, and gangsters over a beat which sounds like it was made by a two year old.

Well true, but give me some examples of what you like

People class many artists under rap....

Originally posted by IanMitchell
Well true, but give me some examples of what you like
People class many artists under rap....
Good question Ian, Me too. I would love to hear some recommendations. I want to hear something which is a nice introduction to the genre which isn't too hard but not too soft either.

And Ledstat, I agree lots of rock music is twangy crap, but I am so disolved in the style, that I like it ! but I wouldn't introduce it to someone who wasn't familiar with that style.

Originally posted by IanMitchell
You had better be joking there lestat..... you're on thin ice with hot skates!

:hihi: :hihi: sorry Ian! I didn't mean to quite put it so bluntly . . .
The thing is Rap is great! it's only the old fuddy duddies who listen to Neil Diamond and Daniel O'Donnell etc . . who dont understand what rap is all about.

It's pure expression - on the spot lyrics that mean something. Not some silver spooned, tweed suit wearing t****r standing on stage crying in to a microphone.

The best stuff comes from the independant record lables (which im guessing is same in most types of music).
people like madlib, MF doom, DJ dangermouse(who is producing the next gorillaz album with damon alban) you just have to dig deep.

hmm Gorillaz, I remember them and thought they were pretty decent.

Are they classed under rap- in your opinion?

What about bands like Rage Against The Machine?

They've got some rap-style lyrics in their music

i really wouldn't know what to class gorillaz as, they have rock, pop and rap on the same tracks.

Stuff like rage against the machine i would have said rock, but i know what you mean about the way they put it across.

Originally posted by muddycoffee
Good question Ian, Me too. I would love to hear some recommendations. I want to hear something which is a nice introduction to the genre which isn't too hard but not too soft either.

If you ever get a chance to listen to Tupac's 'Best of' album

http://launch.yahoo.com/release/143346

make sure you do, it'll introduce you to a whole new world mate.

Originally posted by Lestat
If you ever get a chance to listen to Tupac's 'Best of' album

http://launch.yahoo.com/release/143346

make sure you do, it'll introduce you to a whole new world mate.

Sweet. That's what we need nice polite discourse not slagging and complaints, I will listen to it ( a few times if necc. ) and report my findings here..

Originally posted by muddycoffee
D'yer Mak'er ?
Apart from it's surprising resemblence to the "Police every breath you take" it is the same structure and rhythm as a rap tune and if released today exactly the same by an artist with a dark face would go straight into the rap charts.

Led Zep's D'Yer Mak'er pre-dates the Police song by several years, so surely any resemblence (however slight) is the other way around?

Originally posted by mojoworking
Led Zep's D'Yer Mak'er pre-dates the Police song by several years, so surely any resemblence (however slight) is the other way around?
Of course, we have always known that, but we're not allowed to mention it.
d'yer mak'er 1973..

I have always suspected that the original lyric comes from an ancient tone poem or famous historical prose, but I am not particularly proud of my lack of reading. Maybe someone who has a degree in english lit. can fill us in.. come on forum do your stuff . . .

Originally posted by Lestat:
If you ever get a chance to listen to Tupac's 'Best of' album

http://launch.yahoo.com/release/143346

make sure you do, it'll introduce you to a whole new world mate.


I'll hunt this down and try to listen with as open mind as possible. Then I'll come back to this thread and feed back.

Originally posted by muddycoffee
Of course, we have always known that, but we're not allowed to mention it.
d'yer mak'er 1973..


You are correct :) ;)

D'yer Mak'er is on the Houses of the Holy album released in 1973. :thumbsup:

The only Rap/Hip Hop that has impressed me is that by Public Enemy. They, in my view, said it all in their furious, pounding albums. After work like "It takes a nation of millions", everthing else in the genre sounded tame and cliched to me. Then again, I am a white man in his early forties- hardly the target audience for those who sing of "booty hoes", and proclaim loudly that their "Uzis" are "out of control".

The problem with Rap/Hip Hop is that [in the spirit of the modern age] it is not "inclusive" enough. It is all well and good rapping about "cole lampin''', "flavour''' and "bum rushing the show". Older people, particularly white pensioners, find the lyrics very hard to understand. Rap artists could so easily address this important and pressing "issue", by modifying their lyrics, just a little. For example, " Yo bitch, my Shackleton's Original High Chair is out of control", or perhaps "Bum rush the Wool Shop!" .

i like most types of music although i cant get my head round white people (eminem) trying to do rap dunno why. its like bruce spring. trying to do barry white...it just wouldnt work, or cilla black doing aretha franklin:hihi:

I dislike most rap and hiphop, but i do take a liking to ones with extreme heavy bass lines.

I used to have a very low opinion of rap and hip hop generally. And then someone got me into De La Soul.

Whilst 90% of the refererences completely escaped me, there was no denying that I was enjoying listening to this upbeat, positive vibration...


3....is the magic number.....yes it is......

#Just me myself and I tum ti tum#

Trust me, just buy this (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000000HHE/002-9637841-9917634?v=glance) and love it for what it is. Some music that makes you feel good.

It's sixteen years old now, and still sounds sparkling

Yes there's a lot of bad rap artists out there, as there apalling guitar bands etc.

But get Three Feet High and Rising, its ace.


also. When man first used records as musical instruments in themselves, one of the first beats to be used in this fashion was from "Apache" from what is possibly my favourite non-Zappa album of all time "Michael Viners Incredible Bongo Band - Bongo Rock."

"It’s always seemed the strangest thing to me that people who like a lot of good music get so blinded by attitude that they miss out on all kinds of other music. Every musician I know says the same things about their diehard fans. We’ll be talking about doing tours together and then realize that our fans hate each other’s bands. It’s a shame too. Musicians always like lots of different kinds of music but fans get caught up in the attitudes. As cool and talented as the Neptunes are, they didn’t deem it uncool to work with Justin. But you guys think it is. That’s just weird to me."

I think that successful musicians will always appreciate all different kinds of music and take influences from them. I think if a musician cuts themselves off to 'I'm a rock fan, I only listen to Rock' then they will be unable to grow and change with what an audience want.

A good album to listen to is the soundtrack for Judgment Night for those who are interested in making the transition from rock to rap. My favourite is a song by Teenage Fan Club and De La Soul, great mix of bands!

Buy this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000025JJO/qid=1106832959/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-4668798-3934037)

Quote is from (http://adam.countingcrows.com/index.asp?id=69)

Originally posted by Snook
"It’s always seemed the strangest thing to me that people who like a lot of good music get so blinded by attitude that they miss out on all kinds of other music. Every musician I know says the same things about their diehard fans. We’ll be talking about doing tours together and then realize that our fans hate each other’s bands. It’s a shame too. Musicians always like lots of different kinds of music but fans get caught up in the attitudes. As cool and talented as the Neptunes are, they didn’t deem it uncool to work with Justin. But you guys think it is. That’s just weird to me."

I think that successful musicians will always appreciate all different kinds of music and take influences from them. I think if a musician cuts themselves off to 'I'm a rock fan, I only listen to Rock' then they will be unable to grow and change with what an audience want.



Well said!

Ok Rap and Hip Hop have taken over as my most sought after type of music. Those that find it boring - or repeatitive have probably only heard the comercial stuff - But then its the same with all comercial music (rap/punk/rock) if your main goal is to make money (or G's) then you are a whore to capital and everything you produce will sound corrupted and ugly (except to unsophisticated listeners - ever wonder why comecial music is aimed at children? - coincidence?)
Throw away all your 50c preconceptions - it sounds like we need something with some soul.

You all have mentioned some artist of genius previous. Newyorkers De La Soul and the Beasties show you just how wide this genre can get. De la soul the stakes is High just about encapulated the side of rap that became disaffected with the mainstream, 'I'm sick of bitches shakin asses and of brand name clothes' goes the flow. But add to this 'the mighty NAS - Illmatic is one of my favourite CDs from this time. And of course lets not forget 'The Jungle Brother and The Wu Tan Klan......

For the comitted fan try Antipop consortium or The People Under the Stairs - Talib Kweli new LP The beautiful Struggle shows much promise if you like your hip hop soulful and intelligent.. Also Jurassic 5, Mos Def, Madkap..........etc

even some of the comercial stuff is fantastic Biggie Tuppac Eminem is not everyones taste but certainly comic book genius and not a sellout in the way 50c, Jay Z and P Diddy seem to be...
I have to say Tupac was my way in to this type of music - I just loved his voice and his philosophy and that theatrical myth - making element to it.

There do seem to be many good artist on the scene at the moment Mark Ronsons LP caught By the Fuzz springs to mind (ooh Wee) and of course the colourful and flamboyant Outkast with Speakerboxxx/ The love Below.

British rap/hip hop is a little less accessable to you first timers to the genre. The streets seem strangely lacking next to the more experimental stuff of PWEI and Disney on Acid - but try finding their work -

I prefer my music to ignore Genre and most of the above does, in some respects - there are loads of nuggets of gold out their if you dig deep - a good place to start would be Mr Scruff (stockport Lad) Keep it solid steel - there is some quality on that xx enjoy xx

Haven't managed to get hold of Tupac yet (BitTorrent client playing up :D ), but will keep trying. Anyone with any Mp3s, PM me!

Take the point about De La Soul etc - I was a big fan of Acid Jazz in the 90s, some of which featured rapping. I've realised though, that it's musicality that moves me: spoken (or shouted!) word doesn't do anything for me. Words sung are more likely to have an impact on me.

I love hip hop it's one of my fav genres. I hate 2Pac and most of the commercial hip hop you hear in the charts. Most people I know that despise hip hop just haven't heard any good hip hop. You all think Hip Hop is about swearing and gangsters. Shame for you.

Originally posted by J-Blaze
I love hip hop it's one of my fav genres. I hate 2Pac

hip-hop is for drunken girls with their bacardi breezers.

Originally posted by Lestat
hip-hop is for drunken girls with their bacardi breezers.

As a 'wise' man once said... "Thats an incredibly informative, well thought out and interesting post. . . :loopy:"

:D

Originally posted by Snook
As a 'wise' man once said... "Thats an incredibly informative, well thought out and interesting post. . . :loopy:"

:D

I knew it!!! I was just waiting for someone to post that! . . this is a completely different thread mate and the subject on here is not quite as important as the subject on the other thread!!:thumbsup:

Originally posted by Lestat
I knew it!!! I was just waiting for someone to post that! . . this is a completely different thread mate and the subject on here is not quite as important as the subject on the other thread!!:thumbsup:

Well, I suppose that's true, although alot of people take music very seriously (enough to kill over). It is maybe not quite as important as a child abuser that has been getting away with it for years though, I'll give you that. :)

It'll be soooooooooooo funny when the so called
' child abuser who has been gettin away with it for years'
is found not guilty at the end of the trial - I think you'll find yourself eating those very nice words in embarrassment.

Originally posted by timo
Older people, particularly white pensioners, find the lyrics very hard to understand. Rap artists could so easily address this important and pressing "issue", by modifying their lyrics, just a little. For example, " Yo bitch, my Shackleton's Original High Chair is out of control", or perhaps "Bum rush the Wool Shop!" .

"I'm gonna ride that ho like a stena chair lift"

or not.

You just gotta laff at the videos. Each and every single one of them the same. (Maybe Boots are doing a range of identikit Gangsta Rap videos?)

Men in a baggy trousers, sports vest and cap, big boobed women cavorting and writhing over men they wouldn't be seen dead with, (but for the money), big American cars, fake ghettos (they wouldn't have the nerve to visit the real thing) and no doubt really expensive 'jewellery'.

But whoa, what's funny are those fists shaking away at me, that additood, man, it's so real.

You're right, I don't listen to it. But occasionally I pass through the channels on Sky when I'm searching for Roger Whittaker.

Cliched? They're catering for the same market as SClub7 and Busted. What was that? They've split up? Well, there's some food for thought then.....,

Originally posted by Ousetunes
You just gotta laff at the videos. Each and every single one of them the same. (Maybe Boots are doing a range of identikit Gangsta Rap videos?)

Men in a baggy trousers, sports vest and cap, big boobed women cavorting and writhing over men they wouldn't be seen dead with, (but for the money), big American cars, fake ghettos (they wouldn't have the nerve to visit the real thing) and no doubt really expensive 'jewellery'.

But whoa, what's funny are those fists shaking away at me, that additood, man, it's so real.

You're right, I don't listen to it. But occasionally I pass through the channels on Sky when I'm searching for Roger Whittaker.

Cliched? They're catering for the same market as SClub7 and Busted. What was that? They've split up? Well, there's some food for thought then.....,

Well said my friend, that's almost spot on. I would take issue with you on just one small point and that's where you say the videos feature "big American cars".

Au contraire. Unless it's an oversized, specced-up US 4x4 with chrome spinners, or a top of the range Cadillac, your self-respecting rapper normally wouldn't be seen dead (or murdered) in an American car.

No, it's got to be expensive, (preferably) European and flashy as hell for these boys. After all, if you want to look like a blinged-up, drug-dealing pimp with a harem of scantily-clad, big assed women at your disposal, Mercedes is naturally your car of choice: preferably an SLR, or perhaps an SL600, CL600, or long wheelbase S600 if the budget is tight.

Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Range Rover, Jaguar, Bentley and Rolls Royce are your next choices, with a big ol' 7 series BMW bringing up the rear. Sometimes a Lexus will stand in for a Mercedes S Class.

This is all true, by the way. One of the major motoring mags recently published a list of the cars most often mentioned/seen in rap songs/videos and Mercedes won by a mile (although it must be said that Cadillac did surprisingly well last year compared to previous listings). The entire top 10 is listed here.

I do apologise Mojoworking. Maybe I just didn't have the interest to look closely enough to see what cars were in the vid. There were too many fists being shaken at me at the time and my mind was more on creosoting the shed ready for spring. Or was it all that aditood making me feel uncomfortable?

Oh well, 'bling, bling' (that's right, innit?).

Originally posted by Ousetunes
I do apologise Mojoworking. Maybe I just didn't have the interest to look closely enough to see what cars were in the vid. There were too many fists being shaken at me at the time and my mind was more on creosoting the shed ready for spring. Or was it all that aditood making me feel uncomfortable?

Oh well, 'bling, bling' (that's right, innit?).

No need to apologise, it's all a laugh innit?

And let's face it, the cars are a damn sight more interesting than what laughably passes for the music.

sorry being reading this thread and cant get "kris kros will make you jump jump" out of my head heheh:hihi:

Using the term hip hop/rap is misleading - its like putting dance/pop or rock/metal - they're not the same thing...

If you're interested in hip hop you could to worse than buy Talib Kwellis album Reflection Eternal its pretty good.