There was a report on Look North just now that the new rolling stock for the London-Leeds service is not now to be introduced. It's apparently sitting in sidings all shiny and new but the SRA has decided to withdraw the subsidy (or something)...wasn't giving it my full attention until too late to hear all the details :)

Yes I saw this news item on Look North tonight. I think Andy C raised the issue a while back. I would like to know who bought the trains is it Midland Mainline parent company National Express Group? if so surely these new trains could be used on our service instead of the turbostars and these could then either go to other parts of NEG train empire or leased/sold to other companies like Northern Trains where NEW rolling stock is required. No doubt NEG are trying to get some compension from the SRA who redrew the Midland Mainline franchise at the last minute.

OK, let's fill you in on this story.

We are talking about Midland Mainline's new Meridian trains.

I'll take you back to the beginning. Midland Mainline took over the Sheffield-London route in 1996, and as well as refurbishing the existing High Speed Trains, they ordered a brand new fleet of 'Turbostar' trains. The Turbostars were delivered into service in 1999, when Midland Mainline used them to launch a radically new timetable. The Turbostars, which were nippy little 2 carriage trains, were used to run an hourly stopping train from Nottingham to London and an hourly stopping train from Derby to London, giving the smaller stations on the route like Market Harborough, Kettering and Wellingborough a half hourly commuter service to London for the first time ever, with quality rolling stock. This also enabled the big High Speed Trains from Sheffield and Nottingham to run non stop south of Leicester, offering faster journey times. The Turbostars were also used to give other towns a direct link to London for the first time - towns such as Barnsley, Burton on Trent and Belper.

However an issue developed - the new half hourly service from Market Harborough, Kettering and Wellingborough was very popular and passenger numbers exploded, with the biggest growth being from commuters going to London. This meant the 2 carriage Turbostars were struggling for capacity. Plus the longer distance travellers thought Turbostars were inferior to High Speed Trains as the catering was an at seat trolley service rather than a buffet bar.

As well as this Midland Mainline saw opportunity in Leeds. Business leaders in the East Midlands and Sheffield were pressing for a better link to Leeds, plus the rival GNER service from Leeds-Kings Cross was enjoying growth in passenger numbers but track capacity on the East Coast route is at a premium.

Therefore Midland Mainline ordered the new high quality Meridian trains - the majority were 4 carriage trains, to replace the Turbostars, which are all now in service (The Turbostars are now with Central Trains), and the remaining few Meridians were 9 cars, designed to boost the High Speed Train fleet enough to allow either the Sheffield or Nottingham services to be extended through to Leeds each hour.

However in the meantime the government's strategic rail authority did a route utilisation study of the Midland Mainline, reviewing how best the existing capacity could be used, and as part of this the proposed service to Leeds was looked at.

On the subject of London St Pancras to Leeds they decided it wasn't a good idea - it would require investment in the infrastructure on the Dearne Valley line, there were issued with capacity on the route into Leeds, it would probably lead to a less reliable service for Sheffield-London passengers, there was a reduced need for a new East Midlands-Leeds service since Virgin had allready dramatically improved their Birmingham-Derby-Sheffield-Leeds service, and finally it wouldn't pay its way so would require a subsidy.

Therefore the extra Leeds trains aren't going to happen so technically the extra Meridian trains are no longer needed - however Midland Mainline are looking into alternative uses for these trains, I'm sure we will hear an announcement soon enough.

Ps if you fancy a ride on one of the new 4 carriage Meridian trains they are allready operating via Sheffield station on the Barnsley-London route.

Weekdays
0643 Derby-Barnsley
1219 Nottingham-Barnsley
1630 London-Barnsley
1800 London-Sheffield
0806 Barnsley-London
1409 Barnsley-London
1956 Barnsley-London

Saturdays
0630 Derby-Barnsley
0620 London-York
1000 London-Barnsley
1730 London-Barnsley
1800 London-Sheffield
0806 Barnsley-London
1409 Barnsley-London
1750 York-London

Sundays
0930 London-Sheffield
1530 London-Barnsley
1800 London-Sheffield
1111 Sheffield-London
1900 Barnsley-London

Thanks for all that info Andy. :)

I'm retiring soon and intend to use my concession pass to get out and about a bit in S. Yorks.

Thanks Andy for the background information however I am sure all users of Midland Mainline wonder why keep patching up the HST stock now having its second makeover when you have new ones in a siding? Could the 9 car Meriadian trains not fill in or replace some of the non peak HST service. Is the seating capacity of a 9 car Meriadian a lot less then a HST set.

That is one possible option being considered, along with others. All the options are being investigated and costed.

Originally posted by Greybeard
Thanks for all that info Andy. :)

I'm retiring soon and intend to use my concession pass to get out and about a bit in S. Yorks.

Ah well enjoy, plenty of possibilities. There's the obvious Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley, maybe the pubs of Chapeltown, Penistone Market.....

Also the pass is valid to travel to West Yorkshire on direct Northern Rail operated services - so that adds Wakefield, Leeds and Huddersfield to your list.

Originally posted by Andy C
Ah well enjoy, plenty of possibilities. There's the obvious Rotherham, Doncaster and Barnsley, maybe the pubs of Chapeltown, Penistone Market.....

Also the pass is valid to travel to West Yorkshire on direct Northern Rail operated services - so that adds Wakefield, Leeds and Huddersfield to your list.

Might even return to a bit of train-spotting....used to do a lot of that, - well before anoraks were invented :D

Wonder where I put those Edgar Allen guides....

The only problem with the new trains is that they are always packed. The new Virgin trains are always crowded and you can never get a seat even when you book. Do these 4 car new trains have a much lower seating capacity than the old ones?

Well, a 4 car Meridian has more seats than the 2 car Turbostar they replaced so they do have a few more seats!

However it is true that new trains do have less seats in each carriage compared to the older trains, this is primarily due to the disability discrimination act - it contains a section knows as RAVAR - Rail Vehicle accessibiltiy regulations, which has very specific directives regarding wheelchair spaces, doors, toilets, colour schemes, announcements and more. Facilities such as bigger disabled toilets do take up space!

Added to that there are safety rules even more stringent than before, including one that specifies that on trains over 100mph passengers are not allowed in the front portion (so therefore about 1/4 of the end carriages have no seats, instead they have a bike space and Train Managers office at one end, and a 1st class galley at the other end).

In the Virgin example their new Voyager trains, which are a mixture of 4 and 5 carriage trains, replaced 7 carriage trains, however run twice as frequent. However the combination of new trains and more frequent service has attracted a lot of new passengers, which has filled the extra seats, plus commuters tend to have a herd mentality so you may have one train really crowded then another one 1/2 an hour later half empty!

I would always reccommend reserving a seat in advance for longer journeys where possible!