So following on from the series victory in South Africa, what do people now think are England's chances in the Ashes?

My opinion is that we need a continuing big improvement to have any chance. I don't think the South Africa are a lot better than West Indies or New Zealand, and we should have won this series at least 3-0 or 4-1. We still scrap for test victories against inferior opposition where the Aussies go for the jugular and carry on until they win.

But, if we were to have Thopre, Vaughan, Harmison, Flintoff, Jones (wk) all back to their very best, and Trescothick,Strauss, Giles, Hoggard carry on as they are then we have the best chance to win the ashes back since we lost them.

First, I think it's worth taking stock of the fact that we've just beaten South Africa in their own back yard for the first time in 40 years. That in itself is an achievement. I disagree that South Africa aren't much better than the West Indies and New Zealand. They're much tougher and have - on their day - some good players. Kallis would walk into the Aussie side and the likes of Boje and De Villiers have proved themselves also.

But England are a good side too. And this when not everyone was firing on all cylinders. Harmison had a poor tour (I think he's still carrying an injury) and Flintoff (who's flying home today for treatment) was poor with the bat (with one exception). However, what seems to be happening now is that when one player fails, another steps in. Hoggard was superb; when Trescothick didn't stick around Thorpe or Strauss (World Class in every sense) did. Tactically, Vaughan was better than Smith. We've a wicket keeper who can knock the ball about and I like the fiery style of the other Jones, Simon, the bowler.

However....the Aussies are way above everyone else at the moment. It's been a case in the last (gosh) 17 years that we've not even been able to give them a GAME! Now we should be able to, but it will require every batsman and every bowler turning up and playing the game of their lives.

I don't recall our having a better chance to win the Ashes in those 17 years - but, boy, it's gonna be a tough'un!

Before we think about beating the Aussies, first of all we've got to get rid of Key at number three. His flawed technique will be ruthlessly exposed by the likes of McGrath, Gillespie and Warne. Get Ian Bell in. We need Michael Vaughan to get heavily in amongst the runs (there are signs he was coming into form towards the end, mind). Our number three and four batsmen haven't scored heavily enough for a while.

Steve Harmison needs to get his chin up again. Having said that, he really hates touring and I think the toughness of the schedule played on his mind a lot. Playing at home he should be back to his best. The rest of the bowlers will have to be right at the top of their games for us to have a chance of taking 20 wickets in a match.

But put those things right, add in the factor of an expectant and enthusiastic home crowd, remember the last time we played them (even if it was a one-dayer), hope against hope that Freddie is fit, and who knows?

I can't see it myself.

Still too many collapses in the battling and the Aussies will exploit that. They have more firepower in their bowling and their batting is more consistent.

Don't forget that the Australians are getting on a bit and could have one or two injuries.This is the best chance England have had for ages,

Shoot me down but I have a feeling this is going to be Englands 2nd best year :D

Must be something in the air :suspect:

Originally posted by greennigel
Don't forget that the Australians are getting on a bit and could have one or two injuries.This is the best chance England have had for ages,
From what I've seen 1 or 2 injuries won't affect them. They seem to have strength in depth, however, 1 or 2 injuries to England and their stuffed.

Originally posted by Lickszz
however, 1 or 2 injuries to England and their stuffed.

Yes, because of sods law it's usually our 2 best attacking Bowlers :(

Weve got the best team weve had for a long time maybe even since the 80s? Now its true that Australia are a great team and will take some beating but were almost in danger of making them out as invincible - they're not.

What I would like to see is the English Groundsman doing what every other country's do - preparing the pitch to suit US in consultation with Fletcher and Vaughn.

Thing Im abit worried about is that Fletcher's contract is up for renewal soon and the ECB dont seem to be doing enough to make him stay. If he goes then I think it will be downhill.

Is anybody going to any of the matches? we're all booked up as a group to watch them at Trent Bridge - tickets were hard to come by though!

The comment about replacing Key with Bell - what about Butcher?!
The aussies have got a frightening team with batsmen and bowlers consistently in the worlds top ten performers (3 of each in top ten at moment i think?)

but with England firing and home advantage with pitches prepared to suit us it's gonna make absolutely compelling viewing

i can't wait!!!!!

Originally posted by mat1978

What I would like to see is the English Groundsman doing what every other country's do - preparing the pitch to suit US in consultation with Fletcher and Vaughn.

I'm a bit sceptical about that.

what pitch that is helpful to Harmison and Hoggard would not be helpful to McGrath and Gillespie?

What sort of good batting track will favour our batsman wont favour the Aussie batsman.

They are a brilliant all round team and I don't think the pitches will have much impact on the results.

England are a more consistent team now than they have been at any time since the sixties, we are at a stage where we can concentrate on our own game and not worry so much about what the opposition do.

Can anybody see a weakness in the austrailan team at all?!?!? or anywhere where we can at least match them on paper???

all the way down i can't for the life of me see where we're superior to them in any department apart from us having a genuine all rounder in Freddie i.e somebody that would get into the team based on the strength alone of either there batting or there bowling - that's something that don't have

Gillespe is the nearset they have - world class bowler and not bad with the bat but he wouldn't make it into their team as a batsmen - same with Shane Warne...

Originally posted by Yodameister
I'm a bit sceptical about that.

what pitch that is helpful to Harmison and Hoggard would not be helpful to McGrath and Gillespie?

What sort of good batting track will favour our batsman wont favour the Aussie batsman.

They are a brilliant all round team and I don't think the pitches will have much impact on the results.

England are a more consistent team now than they have been at any time since the sixties, we are at a stage where we can concentrate on our own game and not worry so much about what the opposition do.

But I think that pitch preparation can have an impact. I agree that it wouldnt be possible to entirely suit all out platers and none of thiers, but it would be possible to make it harder for Warne for example - although I suppose his wrist spin would turn on concrete! But you know what I'm saying.

I was watching a sports program yesterday and the feeling was that the Aussie cricket teams were going to give England
their regulation spanking. As im well aware after living in Australia for many years that that the Aussie cricket are very arrogant have right to be since they seem unbeatable in test matches. So what’s the feeling in the UK.

Well, we've just spent the last two weeks playing THE poorest Bangladesh side in history....to win two tests by an innings and runs, there's something seriously wrong! Other than a morale booster for us i think we've played the wrong country - i think it's just given some England cricket supporters a false sense of security!!

Will be a great Ashes tho, I think we've got the best bowling attack we've had in 5 years - hopefully Peiterson will get in the Ashes side too, a great batsman! I'm going for an England win...!!!

The aussie belive that if Matthew Hoggard isnt playing well neither is England. The trouble is that the Aussie are a cocky bunch especially with the calibur of players they've got.
When i was in the UK last in 1989 the English papers reckoned the the visiting Australian team of that era were the worst team ever to leave home. Well 16 years have passed and they haven't lost a Ashes series yet. So with a little luck the Pom's
can kick the Aussie back to where they come from.

I think this is a good side to have a go at Australia.

The team need to believe in themselves, as I always get the feeling they go out and seem to assume they are going to loose.

I hope they win.

Threads merged.

here's the latest from the Aussie newspaper the Herald-sun

Defeat not on Ricky's radar
Jon Pierik
Lille, France
07jun05

RICKY Ponting says he has banished any thoughts of being the first Australian captain in 20 years to lose the Ashes.

Allan Border was the last man to feel that hurt when his 1985 squad, undermanned by defections to rebel South African tours, was humbled 3-1 by David Gower's men.
Border's Aussies were also beaten at home in 1986-87 before the breakthrough '89 tour.

England's resurgence in the past 18 months has lifted the side to No. 2 on the world's Test rankings and raised hopes that it can finally end two decades of Aussie dominance.

But Ponting, preparing for his first Ashes series as captain, said he has not given losing any thought.

"I must admit I am not looking at it that way as me being the first to lose it," he said. "I think more as being just another one of the Australian captains who have won the Ashes.

"I don't think there is any more pressure on this team for this series than any other series we have played, either.

"We have gone into every series that we have played pretty much over the last 10 years as favourites and have been expected to win."

The expectation among several members of the English press is that this is England's best chance for a long time of recapturing the tiny Ashes urn.

But whether key players such as Andrew Strauss, Andy Flintoff and Steve Harmison peak, remains a moot point.

Australia has been a master of ensuring past combatants such as Mike Atherton, Alec Stewart and Andy Caddick didn't, at the very least, match their overall career averages when the two countries met.

"Every England team that I've certainly played against has been packed full of very, very good players," Ponting said.

"They probably admit they probably haven't played as well as they can or would have liked against Australian teams.

"Whether that's going to change in this series, I am not sure. I hope it does."

Batsman Graham Thorpe has averaged a superb 45.74 in 16 Tests against Australia, despite missing 13 of the past 15 clashes. He is set to quit after this winter's series and coach at grade level in Sydney.

Ponting questioned whether Thorpe had heaped greater pressure on himself.

"I don't know if you put extra pressure on yourself to perform because you know it's your last series, or not," the Australian captain said.

Ponting is happy with the schedule in which Australia will acclimatise in England for more than six weeks before the first Test begins on July 21.

But England's 2-0 rout of Bangladesh in a warm-up series may have come at a small cost for the home side, with all-rounder Flintoff and batsman-wicketkeeper Geraint Jones not having a hit. The pair must now find form in the one-day series before the Ashes begins.

"It's slightly disappointing Freddy (Flintoff) and Geraint didn't get a knock, but over the next four weeks we'll make sure they get plenty of practice heading into the Ashes series," England captain Michael Vaughan said.


Link to the newspaper www.heraldsun.com.au

I am going for an England win, and watch out for Flintoff, expect the unexpected with him.

Looks like the Ausies are just starting to find their form at the right time. Perhaps it woud have been better to play the Ashes first and then maybe Englang might have won a couple.

With the exception of the NatWest Championship, we have matched and occasionally outplayed the Aussies which shows how far we have come. We lost the last two ODI's by large margins, but won the first one by a large margin also, nine wickets at Headingley.

So to be disappointed at losing the NatWest shows how high our expectations are these days, which is good news for England.

True, the Aussies are finally coming good, but they were bound to at some point. We can't expect the likes of Macgrath and Gillespie to NOT take wickets. But let's not lose heart; ODI cricket isn't cricket in the truest sense and everybody is looking forward to the Ashes. England would be delighted to forsake the NatWest ODI and re-claim the Ashes.

And it IS possible. Imagine if all our players perform together. Flintoff's not had too much success as yet (with bat and ball) and Harmison still hasn't regained the form that made him the world's number one fast bowler. Strauss is a quality opener who, if he can get in, will stay there all day and Trescothick, whilst not being the prettiest player to watch, is a good old-fashioned opener.

It is time for Michael Vaughan to weigh-in with a good knock. His leadership qualities and positional sense cannot be faulted but at the moment there are other batsmen that could contribute more runs - Bell, for instance. Calderwood, whether included or not, can look back on a summer with satisfaction.

So can Pieterson of whom there is so much to come. This is a rosy time for England and this is a good squad that is improving all the time - it has got used to winning - but which also has new players coming through.

Whatever happens, I reckon we've surprised the Aussies and if we DO win the Ashes, I for one, won't be too surprised.

I have to agree with Ousetunes.

Flintoff might yet surprise us? Who knows?

I think it will be close but i really hope we win! I feel we have the best chance in a long time.

I for one will be behind our lads 110%:clap:

Originally posted by foxycoxy
II for one will be behind our lads 110%:

As will I :clap:

I've been somewhat suprised by Australias lack lustre form but then again, its only the one dayers I guess..

The Ashes is what counts :D

I would love eng to win but i honestly cant see it... the aussie test side is too good!

The aussies are 35-1 great start by us. :clap: come on England

73-4 :clap:

Not that Im getting to excited or owt :D

well it's been a good start for our lads
Aussies 81 - 4 at lunch

good stuff

87-5... not even lunch yet :suspect:

Check Out Your TV Dude,It's For 87 For 5 Now!!

Can't Believe England Have Made Such A Fantastic Start.Just Hope The Series Starts Bad For The Aussies & Gets Worse!!

C'MON ENGLAND!:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Australia alll out for 190
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

hazel

11 for 2
Still Bell is in now. his test average is 297.

Originally posted by greennigel
Don't forget that the Australians are getting on a bit and could have one or two injuries.
I think that is one of Mr Vaughns main tactics to be honest :D

Is it a very bad wicket England are England 18-2
:(

Traditional English start

21-5..

Woah dear :shakes:

McGrath's bowling spell
Well what can i say

England 7 down with less than 100 on the board
Shame Giles fell on the last ball of the day.

Not doing too good (England)

Fantastic day wasted watching 250 runs and 17 wickets.

Originally posted by THE_ONE
McGrath's bowling spell
Well what can i say.....

If Englands pace bowlers found the wicket helpful, then McGrath was always gonna have a field day.

Very dissapointing.

Could be all over by middle of day 3. Do people with tickets for day4 (sold out) get their money back? :confused:

Great Mini Fightback By The Tail.155 All Out.

Keeps Us In With A Chance.

Don't You Think The Adverts For The Cricket On Channel 4 Are Great.I Liked The One With The Aussie At Stonehenge,But I've Just Seen The One Where The Aussie Asks The English Cricketer To Watch His Drink.Fantastic!

COME ON ENGLAND!:clap: :clap: :clap:

420 to win which would be the most ever scored in a 4th innings.
5 dropped catches in the aussie 2nd innings.
Lets pray for rain

anyone know any rain dances?:(

Why is it the moment we get anywhere near a cricket field with Australians on it we forget how to bat and field?

It used to be our bowlers as well, but they seem to be pretty good at the moment.

If we took all the straightforward catches could have been looking at 250 to win, and if we'd batted anything like in first innings could bring that down another 80.

On the other hand I think the Aussies are a far better all round team than us, even if the individual players are not all that much better than England's, they always play as a unit and work together as a team, England always seem to rely more on individual performances.

I'm not too discouraged at the moment as it is the first test but Shane Warnes bowling today was the best I've seen him do. He has lost a lot over the years but what he has lost he has made up for with guile and experience. Turning the ball that much, at will and on the 3rd day of a test match was stunning.
England could have had this.

The rain could save us! send it down, let's pray for two days of rain :D

This lot will be well peeed off.
http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/NATIONAL/AUS/

Originally posted by owdlad
The rain could save us! send it down, let's pray for two days of rain :D

This lot will be well peeed off.
http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/NATIONAL/AUS/ Looks like you got what you wanted ;) have you been doing a rain dance Owdlad ;) rain delaying the start of play on day four at Lord's. Keep dancing :D

Originally posted by Jon
Looks like you got what you wanted ;) have you been doing a rain dance Owdlad ;) rain delaying the start of play on day four at Lord's. Keep dancing :D

I have emailed a friend in the States who is a Native American, asking for her help, so let's see if the rain dance can work for two days :thumbsup:

Well took about 6 overs to lose the last 5 wickets.

Its hard to be too critical of England when they have been consistently the second best team in world cricket for at least 3 years now.

Sometimes you just have to think, maybe Australia are just too good for us.

If England play to the best of their abilities for 5 days (or however long it takes) it can still just take one or two bad sessions to lose, because the opposition make so few mistakes.

I think the most worrying thing is the way that only Pietersen of the England batsmen seems to have the faintest idea what Shane Warne is bowling.

Overall our batting was abysmal, the fielding was shocking, the bowling was generally good, but too much drifting down legside. Trouble is we could have played a whole lot better and still lost.

Know what Yoda, I'm not too concerned that we lost this one.

If we keep bowling as well as we are doing, we'll surely win a test or two - our batting has to get better with the quality of player we've got, and the fielding can't get any worse. If we'd have got to 350 in our first innings, as we should have, we'd have won the game, and all would be rosey in the England garden!

I'm bitterly disappointed with England's performance in the first test. Not the bowlers, but the batsmen, with the notable exception of Kevin Pieterson who performed superbly.

My biggest worry is the psychological damage that has been done, firstly with the ease at which McGrath removed our top order then secondly, the sheer doddle it was to wrap the game up last night (9 wickets lost for 100 runs?). Some of our batting was pathetic.

The problem lies, in my opinion in the amount of garbage push-and-run limited overs cricket that our players play in this country. On the ODIs there's little to choose between us and the Aussies. Play "proper cricket" and the quality in class is astonishing, at least on the evidence of the first test.

The first thing I would do is to drop Vaughan to number 6 batsman. That would relieve him of some of the pressure he is obviously under. There is no way he is a no 3 batsman at the moment. (Some argue he should be dropped altogether - I disagree, for now.)

Put Kevin Pieterson in at number 3. At least then he'll have someone to bat with at the other end. Flintoff should be fourth. I'm not convinced in Bell's selection and I'm beginning to have huge doubts about Geraint Jones. The guy's dropping some right clangers with the bat and gloves.

A quick repair job is required but I fear the damage may have already been done. We're a better side than this yet I feel the only team responsible for getting itself out is us!!

Come on England.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
I'm bitterly disappointed with England's performance in the first test. Not the bowlers, but the batsmen, with the notable exception of Kevin Pieterson who performed superbly.

My biggest worry is the psychological damage that has been done, firstly with the ease at which McGrath removed our top order then secondly, the sheer doddle it was to wrap the game up last night (9 wickets lost for 100 runs?). Some of our batting was pathetic.

The problem lies, in my opinion in the amount of garbage push-and-run limited overs cricket that our players play in this country. On the ODIs there's little to choose between us and the Aussies. Play "proper cricket" and the quality in class is astonishing, at least on the evidence of the first test.

The first thing I would do is to drop Vaughan to number 6 batsman. That would relieve him of some of the pressure he is obviously under. There is no way he is a no 3 batsman at the moment. (Some argue he should be dropped altogether - I disagree, for now.)

Put Kevin Pieterson in at number 3. At least then he'll have someone to bat with at the other end. Flintoff should be fourth. I'm not convinced in Bell's selection and I'm beginning to have huge doubts about Geraint Jones. The guy's dropping some right clangers with the bat and gloves.

A quick repair job is required but I fear the damage may have already been done. We're a better side than this yet I feel the only team responsible for getting itself out is us!!

Come on England.

yes, i like that - good post. Vaughan like most captains is just not performing with the bat so i agree that's a good idea, get him down the order - that way he just may prove to be a bit of an inspiration to the lower order too - the way he lost his wickets were very poor, playing across on the first and just plain missing the second. I think i'd have Bell at 3 with pieterson at 4 though

Jones, now that was really dissapointing but no-one should be dropped at this stage, they steam-rolled us and i don't think any team we'd have put out would have made a difference.

We were unlucky really, SEVEN dropped catches would have surely put us a bit closes so all is not lost....