( I thought that I would start a new thread on it seeing as there is some interest in it and some confusement, plus Castle beck thread will eventually fall away and stop advertising for them too!!!)
The UKCC will eventually hit all MA. A very good friend of mine (Master A Davies 'MA Hall of Fame' endorsed) recently had a meeting with the sports minister and the directors of UKCC in Leeds.
UKCC will hit all sports. Time will be the factor. In Buckinghamshire a 'JUDO' class was stopped from training in its local sports centre as it was told that only UKCC registered Instructors and associates are allowed. The 'instructor' ( sorry for my ignorance on correct title) was a former British Champion and highly regarded in his sport.
Near Bristol, a TAI CHI class had to be cancelled because of the same regulation! I never though Tai Chi was a sport as such but apparently it is.
The list will go on and on eventually.
For example, all TKD clubs not under BTC will not get UKCC as that is the only 'officially' recognised association for that sport. Where does that leave thousands of other students around the country? Even if you do not train in a sports hall and have your own training hall, the government will get to you through your insurance. If you do not have UKCC you will not be able to gain your insurance.
This is in the future but it will creep up on us very soon, the government are on it now.
This is not scare mongering, this is happening, regardless of your grade or NVQC's or council recognition.
Master Andy Davies is putting up a fantastic fight for all martial arts club by getting up the gov. noses and pushing for a result. If you want furter information on this, please email me and I will let you know further contact details regarding Master A Davies.
We all need to fight this together and not in opposing corners.
Regards.

I'm not sure the insurance thing could be stopped. If an insurer wants to insure you they will. Having the UKCC might make insurance cheaper I guess.

Hi,

The UKCC site doesn't look to be saying anything as strident as the message you're putting across here. Have you personally been in touch with the UKCC to see if they will send 'enforcers' round to stop your class if you don't get a qualification from them? (and looking at their site, I only see Judo and Karate covered by their plans....).

For the Bucks Judo class, is there any link to a report of this incident? It would be ominous if this sort of thing was happening.

What about sports that haven't got an officially recognised body representing them on the Sports Council? (like Muay Thai, I think).

Lets hope there has been some element of misunderstanding, and that the future isn't going to be as Draconian as you make it sound....ensuring that instruction in MAs is of a safe and reasonable level is quite an admirable and understandable goal, if done right.

Ade

... The 'instructor' ( sorry for my ignorance on correct title) was a former British Champion and highly regarded in his sport. ...

I am assuming this refers to a British Judo champion?

While I accept there are a number of organisations for Judo within the UK besides the BJA, the BJA is (correct me if I'm wrong) much bigger than the other GBs. I assume this national champion was not a member of the BJA - if he was he would be qualified under their scheme and so hold a UKCC.

If he was/is not with the BJA and part of a (much?) smaller organisation, then how much does the national champion title mean?

I don't mean to be rude, I'm sure he is very capable, but if the organisation he is national champion of consists of 20 clubs the title doesn't hold as much prestige (IMHO) as an organisation that has hundreds (I freely admit I don't know exact numbers, if you can find membership/club numbers for differant GBs that would be great :thumbsup:).

Hi,

The UKCC site doesn't look to be saying anything as strident as the message you're putting across here. Have you personally been in touch with the UKCC to see if they will send 'enforcers' round to stop your class if you don't get a qualification from them? (and looking at their site, I only see Judo and Karate covered by their plans....).
It wouldn't require enforcers. If the local council are told (by central government) that all teachers in their buildings should be UKCC qualified then the local council run leisure centres etc wont allow non UKCC coaches to run clubs there.

Hi,

Have you personally been in touch with the UKCC to see if they will send 'enforcers' round to stop your class if you don't get a qualification from them? (and looking at their site, I only see Judo and Karate covered by their plans....).


Ade

A lot of fellow instructors and school owners have aske dthe same question...'How will they enforce it?'
At the moment it looks something like this:

If you train in a sports hall etc, they will have a register on all sports registered and covered by UKCC. If your names not on the list, you cant come in!
Insurance companies are all nationally governed, they wont and cant insure any one they like. They will have to adhere to the insurance ombudsman(?)
For sports that do not have nationally recognised associations, well then they will have to be recognised or face being closed. It's going to be a scarey as that.

Judo and Karate are in their plans as such as they are seen as the 'original' martial art sport. ie the first to be recognised. They have started on judo and karate......whose next????? We all need to fight as Ive said before, but from the same corner.

Do we need to fight?
Isn't it a good thing that coaching standards are ratified somehow?

If some people are actively blocked from learning and improving in order to make that standard, then that is bad.

Hopefully it will put the rogues that damage the reputation of some martial arts out of business.

Sports don't need yet more restrictions, and I agree with MasterJ, this should be opposed.

Judo (or any other martial art) as its struggling as it is and doen't need anymore restrictions.

20 years ago, there were clubs everywhere in the Sheffield area

Do you not think it is a good idea that coaches should be 'quality controlled' universally rather than by the GBs?

I could (in theory anyway!) setup my own body, call myself 8th dan super grand master poobah or something and off we go...who would check if I am behaving properly? Who would check if I am any good as a coach?

http://www.ukcoachingcertificate.org/

The above website is there for you to look at, and looks to me like another spanner in the works for sports clubs.

How many mores restrictions are needed?

as for the question "Who would check if I am any good as a coach? "..... surely the paying public will decide that, rather than some busybody with a clipboard whos trying to justify his own job.

When I began Judo, I don't know how qualified the coaches were (some probably weren't), but I learned to do my techniques. Again, there were less restrictions and lots of clubs.

In Doncaster, Barnsley and Chesterfield, there is not one Judo club, speaks volumes for the modern rules and regulations.

Anyway, this thing needs to be opposed. Check out the website and make up your own opinions. This will effect all sports if it takes hold

From what i understand and i have just spoken to a development officer at the UKCC it is down to each individual governing body of a particular sport to have plans in place to fit into a national framework of coach/work force development plan. Their are 5 levels of which most schools/leisure centres are looking for a minimum level 2.

No one will be checking/enforcing as you will be automatically be recognised as long as your NGB has done their job. If they haven't then maybe you should be asking them why and if you are paying affilliation/membership fees what are they using them for.

I think any problems that will occur for MA clubs will most probably arise from the governing bodies not doing their job properly or not being recognised. I have often asked the question in the past, are MA teacher/instructors etc actually qualified to teach/coach by their governing body or is it automatic once you reach a certain personal level, this is where MA clubs will suffer.

...No one will be checking/enforcing as you will be automatically be recognised as long as your NGB has done their job...
How is the individual to know if his coaching is up to scratch unless he is watched/examined by someone who has been trained (in the governing body by the UKCC organisation I would assume) in the standards?

... I have often asked the question in the past, are MA teacher/instructors etc actually qualified to teach/coach by their governing body or is it automatic once you reach a certain personal level, this is where MA clubs will suffer.
Depends on the organisation, some will say at a certain grade you are considered an instructor/coach, other governing bodies have a separate learning structure for coaching.

This would be my preference as not everyone wants to or is able to teach. I am fortunate that my governing body treat coaching as a separate thing that requires training rather than assuming ability inferred by grade/experience.

Hi,

I'm still not sure I get it entirely :(

Are people saying that, for example, as there is no NGB for Muay Thai (as far as I know - sorry if that's wrong; there is no governing body acknowledged on the Sport England pages), then no-one can be UKCC recognised and so will not be able to train people? Or just not able to train in Govt/Council facilities?

Of course, it could be a good wake-up call for some sports to get organised properly, so they can access funding streams that are otherwise closed to them.

There are lots of sports not acknowledged on the Sports England pages - so any all-encompassing scheme is going to take years to implement, and I'd think no-one has drastic need to worry - or am I misreading the situation?

Ade

[QUOTE=dafoot;2786699]How is the individual to know if his coaching is up to scratch unless he is watched/examined by someone who has been trained (in the governing body by the UKCC organisation I would assume) in the standards?

UKCC as far as i understand are not delivering and training or coaching to any individual or NGB they are putting all coaching certs into a framework of levels depending on what is involved, from level 1 to 5.

Once an NGB has submitted and had their coaching structure recognised no individual has to worry as it is part of a national framework. It is the NGB responsibilty to ensure consistecy across their coaching structure. However the difficult part for the NGB is to have their own structure recognised. I do not think it is a short process and can take a few years.

Ade i think your right it is something that will happen but not nexr week!

The government have a long term agenda to have compulsory licensing of sports coaches with 2016 being talked about as a target date.

Go to the sportscoachuk site, and select the UK coaching framework drop down menu and then the "licensing and registration" option.

The problem is that to create a licence scheme, there needs to be a nationally recognised qualification - hence the UKCC.

The problem with the UKCC is that it has been handed to the NGB's to develop, to the exclusion of anyone or anything else.

As others have pointed out - what about activities for which there is no NGB, or situations, as with martial arts, where there are numerous variations and styles, with loads of different organisations - especially where there may be a variation from an existing sport which does have an NGB.

Had the sort of regime they are now talking about have existed long ago, rugby would never have developed at all, because it would have been regarded as an unauthorised, rule-infringing version of football.

For two years, various independent sports groups have been trying to get answers, but have not been provided with them.

Also, it is made worse because the authorities are now saying that things like yoga are sports (and the BWY recognised as the NGB), and also that teaching even non-competitive activities is sports coaching.

The BWY has self recognised as the NGB but this is not the viewpoint of the majority of other yoga schools:-)

LL