I was told today that John lewis (Cole Brothers in old money) was built on an old cemetary and church ground. Now as far as i'm aware Coles did not open on a Monday because it was their training day and they changed all the displays in the store, plus it was a family run operation and the staff didn't want to work monday. Now i'm not sure on the reliability of this but I was told that it was a condition not to open monday when it was built because of this.

Can anybody tell me if there is any truth in this, did anyone work for Coles years back?

It used to be that only Oxford St opened on a monday. It was to give the employees a proper weekend off. (display staff worked a mon-fri 5 day week).

Most of the staff were full time, unlike other retailers, so six day working was unreasonable. It is easier to ensure you have expert staff, and a customer can deal with just one staff member if most of the staff are at work during all of the opening hours.

Dunno about the cemetary. Was this actually with reference to Cole's original site - where HSBC now is - opposite the cathedral?

Originally posted by Strix
It used to be that only Oxford St opened on a monday. It was to give the employees a proper weekend off. (display staff worked a mon-fri 5 day week).

Most of the staff were full time, unlike other retailers, so six day working was unreasonable. It is easier to ensure you have expert staff, and a customer can deal with just one staff member if most of the staff are at work during all of the opening hours.

Dunno about the cemetary. Was this actually with reference to Cole's original site - where HSBC now is - opposite the cathedral?

Cheers strix, that's a good question about which Coles site it was. I assumed they were on about the Barkers pool building but I can probably see that the now HSBC bank site being quite close to the Cathedral could have been built on one.

This was what I was looking for earlier (http://www.johnlewis.com/Shops/DSHistory.aspx?StoreID=7)

It doesn't answer the question, but it makes interesting reading

another pic (http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/images.php?class=nostalgic&cat=spc&pictureRef=spc021)

This may be of interest too (http://www.rocknroll.force9.co.uk/cinemas/cintable.html)

It is true that the cathedreal yard extended a lot further out towards the old Coles Corner.

I remember when I was a kid there some hooh hah that some workmen who were digging in Church Street near Coles Corner came across quite a few human remains. I am sure that there were large screens erected to keep out the public while the bodies wee exhumed properley and reburied.

This would probably answer the question about the graveyard and would have been after Coles move to Barkers Pool. I cannot remember the exact year but think it would have been the late 60's - I am sure there will be some one reading this who had a far better memory then I do.

I found this too (http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ENG-SHEFFIELD/2004-11/1099834719)

With a history dating back pre Roman

http://www.thenortheast.fsnet.co.uk/SouthYorkshire.htm

There's probably bodies buried allover Sheffield from historic period or another :(

I've found a 1903 map (http://jfatherton.0catch.com/sheffield/maps/shef1903s.jpg)
Does that help?

I've a copy of a 1775 map, which shows the Cathedral grounds, Church Street and Fargate just as they are now, so unless the grounds were extended later, which is doubtful given the street plan is still the same, then Coles Corner has been outside the burial ground for over 200 years. However, since there has been a church on the site of the Cathedral since Saxon times, if not earlier, it's possible some very early burials could have taken place there.

Algy, I have a 1736 map :) and on that Church Street is shown as Church Lane...certainly a lot narrower than it is today. But the present building line was probably dictated by the present Cutlers Hall which was built around 1832/33. This replaced an earlier Cutlers Hall built in 1725, so it seems likely that Church Lane was widened into Church Street at the same time.

On this map many of the streets have different names to what we know them as today, - eg High Street was then known as Prior Gate, and West Street is Red Lane.

If you'd like a copy pm me your email address.

Thanks for all the info, it has answerd my question. Some nice links there also, especially the lost cinema site.

I worked on the new Coles when it was built,it would be around 64

books i have state that the cole brothers was built on the original site of the city hall, the old organ was removed and then placed in the now city hall and then it was demolished because of a fire that made it impossible to restore

To the best of my knowledge The Barkers Pool store is where the reservoir (Barkers Pool) was located many moons ago.

If so, I doubt that it was a cemetery, and if it was I assume that any bodies would have been removed when the Pool was created.

i listened to Sheffielder Richard Hawley on Drivetime tonight. His new album is called Coles Corner and in the course of the conversation, I thought he said that the ld Col;es transferred to Barkers Pool in 1969. Can that be right? I seem to remember Coles as always being there, unless it was called Wash's before that? And where was Coles Corner?

Originally posted by Tony
To the best of my knowledge The Barkers Pool store is where the reservoir (Barkers Pool) was located many moons ago.

If so, I doubt that it was a cemetery, and if it was I assume that any bodies would have been removed when the Pool was created.
Cole Brothers was on Coles Corner of blessed memory which was the corner of Fargate and Church Street, facing down High Street, now occupied by the HSBC bank, hence the question of a cemetery arising from the proximity of the Parish Church/Cathedral. 1969 sounds about right for their relocation to Barker's Pool.

I can't confirm this, but I heard that before the cinema, which occupied the site prior to Coles, there was a chapel with a small burial ground on the site. The lower ground floor over by the Barkers Pool end of the building is about level with where the graves would have been. When I worked there - many moons ago - it was reputedly haunted in that area.:suspect:

Originally posted by algy
Cole Brothers was on Coles Corner of blessed memory which was the corner of Fargate and Church Street, facing down High Street, now occupied by the HSBC bank, hence the question of a cemetery arising from the proximity of the Parish Church/Cathedral. 1969 sounds about right for their relocation to Barker's Pool.

I feel sure it was a little before 1969 that Coles moved to Barkers Pool. I remember going in there as a young child and getting stuck in the car park lift. Anyone else clarify the moving date?

it may not have been built on a cemetry, but it's full of coffin dodgers now :heyhey:

I feel sure it was a little before 1969 that Coles moved to Barkers Pool. I remember going in there as a young child and getting stuck in the car park lift. Anyone else clarify the moving date?

I think it was about 1964/5 as I went for a job there. I changed my mind and never went as I just couldn't face working in another shop. Burtons cured me of such desire.

I have heard that way back to (maybe) before castle times, the site of the cathedral was taken up by a burial ground / holy site of the Saxons (Ancient Britons anyway). The burial ground streched passed the confines of todays cathedral grounds and almost all the way up Fargate and down Chapel Walk area. When the European Christians came to convert the local people from their own Pagan beliefs, a group of knights butchered a large group of captured locals (men, women, children and babes in arms) for not converting to Christianity (they did not understand the high Latin of the knights). This took place on a grassy mound covered with small trees and bushes, or a "campo". The blood soaked the area red and ran down to the nearby river. Wanting to break the power of the local religion, the christians built a church on the site, and now it is our Cathedral.

Ithink the present coles shop occupies the site of the old Albert Hall which was destroyed by fire in the early 30ties

books i have state that the cole brothers was built on the original site of the city hall, the old organ was removed and then placed in the now city hall and then it was demolished because of a fire that made it impossible to restore

It was the Albert Hall Theatre that was destroyed by fire in 1937 & was derelict until 1963 ......thats where Coles is now.

i worked at coles in barkers pool during the 70's.
it opened in 1963 and was built on the site of a church.the land is owned by the salvation army and until recently coles always closed on religious days ...i.e good friday due to that connection.it was a fantastic place to work and holds many memories for me

the City Hall was not in existence in any form, before the current one was built, in the 1930s. (partially as a memorial to the war dead of the 1914-18 war)

there was a cinema/theatre called the Albert Hall in the vicinity of the Gaumont in Barkers Pool., this may have been confused with the City hall...

re the bodies excavated near the HSBC when the supertram works were under way:-

there were rules about who could, and who could not be buried in a churchyard (hallowed ground...).

Suicides, the hanged (that's judicial hangings btw), and unbaptised infants are three categories that I can think of. (I think non-members of the chuch would find it difficult to obtain burial there, too)

Way back when, if someone could not actually obtain burial in the Churchyard itself, then their families would bury them outside the churchyard, as near as possible to the boundary. I believe that this may have been the background to the bodies found on Church Street.

From books i have read, i know that coles stands on the site of the old city hall, apparently there was a fire, the only thing remaining was the large organ that was relocated to the city hall as it is now, don't have dates off hand, just know it was around the turn of the century, when the site of the alexander pub near the market was a theatre,, bit of useless info towards the end but hope it helps....

I recall the present John Lewis site being a car park when I was a teenager but that was probably a result of it having been bombed during the war. I actually have a photograph of myself which shows the car park in the background.

From books i have read, i know that coles stands on the site of the old city hall, apparently there was a fire, the only thing remaining was the large organ that was relocated to the city hall as it is now, don't have dates off hand, just know it was around the turn of the century, when the site of the alexander pub near the market was a theatre,, bit of useless info towards the end but hope it helps....
I don't know who told you all that but it is all completely wrong.

The city hall was built and officially opened in September 22nd 1932, complete with organ.

The Albert hall Where (John Lewis now stands) burned down later in the decade On the 14th of July 1937

I recall the present John Lewis site being a car park when I was a teenager but that was probably a result of it having been bombed during the war. I actually have a photograph of myself which shows the car park in the background.

See my last post above, the Albert hall burned down in 1937, and nothing was built to replace it until Cole Brothers in the 1960s. That must have been the carpark.

Could well be, there wouldn't have been time to rebuild between 1937 and the start of WW2 in 1939.

Regards, Mike

Are you sure you are not thinking about the Peace Gardens which are built on the cemetry of the Georgian St Paul's Church which was demolished in 1938.

The bodies were not cleared until the recent renovation of the Peace gardens.

From books i have read, i know that coles stands on the site of the old city hall, apparently there was a fire, the only thing remaining was the large organ that was relocated to the city hall as it is now, don't have dates off hand, just know it was around the turn of the century, when the site of the alexander pub near the market was a theatre,, bit of useless info towards the end but hope it helps....

The information I have is that the City Hall organ was brand new when the city hall opened in 1932. It was built by Henry Willis and sons Ltd. Liverpool.
They had a sheffield branch at Townhead Steet. I think the company is still going strong after 160+ years.

Going back to Coles corner I read a book sometime ago about ghosts in Sheffield. I'm sure it said bones were found when the Fargate / High street subway was built (late 60's early 70's ?).
Workmen saw ghost in the area of Boots basement. I think Boots went on to have a display window in the completed subway.

Going back to the early 60's I was a YMCA member when it occupied the upper floors of the building that goes from the Yorkshire Bank, Fargate and wraps around the corner of Norfolk Row. If one went to the top of the building and looked over where Next is situated the view was very interesting.

Running down the rear of what now is Next, past Thomas Cook and Wallaces there was a cobbled alley with Georgian style house fronts going all the way towards Chapel Walk. Perhaps this was the original Fargate with the cemetery running all the way up what we now know as Fargate.

i worked at coles in barkers pool during the 70's.
it opened in 1963 and was built on the site of a church.the land is owned by the salvation army and until recently coles always closed on religious days ...i.e good friday due to that connection.it was a fantastic place to work and holds many memories for me

I've resurrected this old thread and heeley boy's opinion that coles moved to barkers pool in 1963. There are a few items like this that I am trying to nail down for a writing project that I've undertaken regarding my growing up years in Sheffield in the 50s and 60s, so help of Forum Readers is appreciated. On this one, heeley boy's 1963 date sounds right. It had to have been moved to Barker's Pool prior to July 1964 because I distinctly remember going to the BP location to have my graduation photo taken. Anyone any further thoughts on this?

The information I have is that the City Hall organ was brand new when the city hall opened in 1932. It was built by Henry Willis and sons Ltd. Liverpool.
They had a sheffield branch at Townhead Steet. I think the company is still going strong after 160+ years.

Going back to Coles corner I read a book sometime ago about ghosts in Sheffield. I'm sure it said bones were found when the Fargate / High street subway was built (late 60's early 70's ?).
Workmen saw ghost in the area of Boots basement. I think Boots went on to have a display window in the completed subway.

Returning late to this thread (sorry!)

I do know that there were quite a few "remains" removed from the vicinity of the cathedral area across Church Street, to what is now HSBC (Coles Corner)

I remember the reports in the Star that there was a rumpus that the workman didn't give the remains proper reverence.

I recall it was something about the canvas screens, erected for the exhumation being fine at ground level for privacy, but that office staff at upper levels could see over the tops, into the excavations, and the report said it offended them.

nice Albert Hall photo
http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s01459

Coles corner
http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s01459

hiya
i remember at the end of the ww2 on the land in barkers pool, it was from the regent cinema up towards cambridge street, there was a searchlight, an ack ack gun, also a big static water tank, i was seven at the time,we had gone to see the town lit up after all the blackouts. i could be wrong but was the work that was going on at the frontage of the cathederal when the footpath which was about 2x3 ft higher than the road in church st.

nice Albert Hall photo
http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s01459

Coles corner
http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s01459

HI manxbiker,

there's a problem with the linky on the second pic, of coles corner, as it links back to the same photo of the Albert Hall as in the first post.

I've resurrected this old thread and heeley boy's opinion that coles moved to barkers pool in 1963. There are a few items like this that I am trying to nail down for a writing project that I've undertaken regarding my growing up years in Sheffield in the 50s and 60s, so help of Forum Readers is appreciated. On this one, heeley boy's 1963 date sounds right. It had to have been moved to Barker's Pool prior to July 1964 because I distinctly remember going to the BP location to have my graduation photo taken. Anyone any further thoughts on this?

Problem solved. It was Sep 1963. There's a photo of hordes of people lining up outside the new store in Barker's Pool in the book Sheffield in the Sixties by Peter Goodman. I remember the fuss when the new store opened. Just forgot the date.

nice Albert Hall photo
http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s01459

Thanks for posting that. I have an interest in the Albert Hall and haven't seen a proper photo of it before. It was the venue that Sir William Crookes chose to deliver his lecture revealing the Cathode Ray tube to the world in his lecture "On Radiant Matter" in 1879.

It led to the development of X-rays, television and the computer monitor and personal computing and also the plasma TV screen.

There should be a blue plaque!

There's a decent article on the event here -

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/arch09/090817radiant.htm

HI manxbiker,

there's a problem with the linky on the second pic, of coles corner, as it links back to the same photo of the Albert Hall as in the first post.

Thanks for that

Are you sure you are not thinking about the Peace Gardens which are built on the cemetry of the Georgian St Paul's Church which was demolished in 1938.

The bodies were not cleared until the recent renovation of the Peace gardens.

The bodies were supposed to have been removed, my grandfather told me about it, perhaps they skipped a few.