Hello there, im doing an A level geography project on traffic calming measures, mainly in the S11 area, but if any of you have any views on these im after your comments on them, how effective you feel they are, your own point of view from either a resident or a pedestrian or a motorist. :)

Also if u can see any problems or if you yourselves have better ideas to slow down traffic that would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Rob

Ban Cars:D

Cheers

Kerry:o

Fit cars with urban speed limiters.

Chicanes (a la Dutch and Swedish Residential areas)

More Speed Traps

More Speed Cameras

Drop speed limit in residential suburbs to 15 mph and ENFORCE it.

Death Penalty (without trial) for Speeding Motorists.

Trains that turn up on time, more buses that also turn up on time and have air conditioning and comfortable seats. Only 2 buses a day come to the bus stop near my house even though there are loads of houses. Even though we all have cars, if buses were cheaper that petrol costs and actually came to us then i wouldnt mind catching one. Id actually RATHER get the train to uni as getting there by car sounds like a nightmare but i dont trust them to turn up on time and its £2.50 for single fare so thats £12.50 a week to sit in a decrepid, smelly tin can. Has anyone else noticed that sickly disgusting smell on Arriva Trains Northern that comes from the toilets and gives you a headache. Dont, like me, make the mistake of venturing in these toilets, its not worth it - really.

This is all great stuff, keep posting!

No silly calming measures, such as the modern speed blocks. They don't work if you are travelling over 40mph. They also break up and deteriorate after about 3 years.

The overhead cameras which track you as you are approaching are very good, it has really cut down speeding on roads like the Stocksbridge Bypass.

Road narrowing schemes are also ridiculous. Yes, they make you slow down. But they increase congestion and cause needless queueing.

Those mastive flashing signs that turns on telling you are over the speed limt and by what amount are good. They seems only to appear around villages than built up areas though.

And I don't understand why the police aren't allowed to conceal speed cameras to catch them out because people only slow down when they see one.

You might as well put hundred of dummy ones up.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Fit cars with urban speed limiters.

Chicanes (a la Dutch and Swedish Residential areas)

More Speed Traps

More Speed Cameras

Drop speed limit in residential suburbs to 15 mph and ENFORCE it.

Death Penalty (without trial) for Speeding Motorists.

urrr. please tell me you are having a laugh there phan :|

i can agree with, 2 & 5, but not the rest.

And I don't understand why the police aren't allowed to conceal speed cameras to catch them out because people only slow down when they see one.

isnt the point of speed cameras to slow people down?.

my thoughts are thus: name and shame is the best way around it.

using a speed trap to display your speed in massive letters as you go past, the embarassment of it makes people slow down (its been trialled and worked see)

the police should spend more time taking care of dangerous drivers and not speeders as such.

John quoted
And I don't understand why the police aren't allowed to conceal speed cameras to catch them out because people only slow down when they see one.

RGP quoted
isnt the point of speed cameras to slow people down?.

True, for around 5 seconds.

Now, if you got caught out by a concealed camera which is highly likely if you are speeding, 3pts or more on your licence and a fine based on how fast.

Have you by now
a) Learnt a lesson because you've paid a fine and notice you could easily be banned from the road for continuing such bad behaviour.

or

b) continue to speed? With a high risk of being fined again and a possibility of being banned altogether?

Changing your behaviour means you keep to the speed limit on ALL roads not just a patch where there is a camera sticking out.

Originally posted by RPG
urrr. please tell me you are having a laugh there phan :|

i can agree with, 2 & 5, but not the rest.

Ah Ok, No.6 (execution without trial) was a little extreme :)

I think urban speed limiters aren't such a bad idea. Lorries and coaches have them fitted by law, why not cars? It's untested and there are bound to be problems in enforcement and implications, but i can't see any inherent problems in the principle.

The chicanes are used in residential suburbs where, in Sweden and Holland at least, the top speed is 15 kph and pedestrians have right of way over motorists. It works to reduce the number of children killed or seriously injured by moving cars by putting the onus on the driver to go dead slow and keep their eyes peeled, instead of blaming the kids for being kids.

using a speed trap to display your speed in massive letters as you go past, the embarassment of it makes people slow down (its been trialled and worked see)

That is a good idea.

the police should spend more time taking care of dangerous drivers and not speeders as such.
It would be fair to say that anyone speeding in residential areas *is* a dangerous driver, by definition.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Ah Ok, No.6 (execution without trial) was a little extreme :)

I think urban speed limiters aren't such a bad idea. Lorries and coaches have them fitted by law, why not cars? It's untested and there are bound to be problems in enforcement and implications, but i can't see any inherent problems in the principle.


the trouble with speed limiters are they need manual intervention if you need to stop it, ie. if you were say overtaking on a 3lane carrageway (2 and a 1) and needed to speed up to avoid a crash situation you wouldnt have the time to disengage the system, or for any other situation where acceleration and quick thinking needs to be applied


It would be fair to say that anyone speeding in residential areas *is* a dangerous driver, by definition.


in residential areas definatly yes, but i was talking about the police should deal more with that, than motorway/duel carrageway speeders

RPG ive thought about that being a problem to, it looks to be likely to cause more accidents than it would prevent.

What do people think of the 3 road lumps and raised Zebra crossings in residential areas that are now about?

Rob

:D

Originally posted by RobW

What do people think of the 3 road lumps and raised Zebra crossings in residential areas that are now about?

Rob

:D

they are good, the normal ones lots of people just ignore :x but not so good if you've got an injured PC in the boot on the way for repair :lol:

How about, if you are speeding, speed Humps raises from the ground in the road in front of you, if you below the speed limit, the lumps remains underground.

Possibly into the unrealistic area now :p keep comments simple, for example what if it broke and stayed up, or perhaps went up to high.. hehe

Rob

Living in the S11 area, I have to experience these stupid traffic 'calming' measures quite frequently. So in your project take a few things into account, such as:
- the fact that speed bumps damage vehicles, even if the person is at or under the speed limit when mounting them. Cars were designed for flat roads afterall.
- so called 'chicanes' narrow the road too much and force drivers to play 'chicken' with each other. If neither gives way and both cars are wide enough, they inevitable scrape each other.
- speed bumps and many other traffic 'calming' measures are a danger in that they hold up vehicles belonging to the emergency services, and as a result, probably cost more lives than they save.
- traffic 'calming' measures frustrate motorists and add to the road rage problem.
- the only effective way to make people slow down is to install several speed cameras that are highly visible.

Originally posted by t020
- the only effective way to make people slow down is to install several speed cameras that are highly visible.

Yes, especially the ones that track you as you approach it. That way you can't speed and then slow down at the last minute. They certainly keep the speeds down on motorway roadworks.

Originally posted by t020
- the only effective way to make people slow down is to install several speed cameras that are highly visible.

I'm not so sure on this one. I suppose it all depends where the cameras are placed. Speed cameras would work at motorway roadworks but not in heavily urban areas, such as a school road.

First, a standard Gatso costs £35,000 And I don't know how much the autotracking ones cost. It's much cheaper for the council to throw tarmac humps on the road.

Secondly, all the speed cameras in the world would not stop the driver of a stolen car blasting down a 20mph road at 70mph...

Then maybe speed limiters are the answer.

The only way to do this is to firstly get a sensible transport policy and secondly to educate motorists and stop blatantly ripping them off with things like cameras that are sited badly, do little to actually reduce speed other than at that point and cause nothing but resentment and raise anger, (not to mention revenue which does not all go back into road safety - if it did I'd be less bothered).

I regularly drive along the Penistone Road and there is always a stream of traffic suddenly braking by the two sets of cameras, which then rapidly accelerate once they are past them. I cannot see why that road has a limit of either 30 or 40 along it, (other than at the top of the hill where there is a lot of housing).

The speed humps along Rustlings road have damaged the exhaust pipe of my car, (they are too big there is a legal limit for these things and my car is low) and I have to crawl over them at a walking pace to not damage the car. Thats fine, I don't mind that except that I get horns of following motorists blaring, lights full beam in my face and all sorts of verbal abuse at times when driving along there. Several times I've had people pull out and overtake me then proceed along the road at 40+, these things just don't work to slow this type of driver. I now don't use that road but head further up, go along Greystones Road and back down, so now I'm using more fuel aswell to get from A to B. Hardly economical.

Try asking someone from the emergency services what they think about traffic calming measures. They are a nightmare for them. I fully expect to hear of an accident caused by one of them these days..

I'm all in favour of sensible limits in towns and cities, around residential areas, schools and so on. Good idea to reduce the speed there and give pedestrains the right of way. I am dead against automatic limiters etc. As RPG said, they limit your ability to control the vehicle; ever had to speed up to get into a position to let an ambulance through?

Back to the transport policy thing. I spent a lot of time In Zurich and never once needed a car there. I'd be able to get a bus, tram or a train from within a few minutes walk of my house, to within a few minutes of where I needed to be. They were cheap, clean, safe for single women at night, on time and efficient. If I did use a car to get around, it would take me far longer, so I rapidly gave up. Why can't we orgainise this in this country? I can neither get around town to do what I need to do, or get to and from work without a car here. Solve that problem and there would be far fewer cars on the road and a lot of the problem would be solved.

Sorry for the rant folks, but I feel very stongly about this sort of thing. I worked in road safety for 6 years and have a PhD in the subject, (so am not just a militant car owner..). We are just not approaching this in a sensible way in this country.

Edited to add. Take a look at http://www.abd.org.uk/ or http://www.safespeed.org.uk/ You will find a few of us with cars that are all in favour of increasing safety by doing something that actually works to do that..

How about reverting to cobbled streets? I have to drive down one every day on my way home and anything over 15 mph and my teeth start chattering.

Id like to thank Mawgan to take so long to write so much useful information for my project.

Some interesting views and comments are coming out of this debate, please keep your views coming :)

Regards

Rob

The traffic calming medods presently employed are worse than useless, they are going about it all wrong. The only way is to re - educate all drivers on how to improve their driving skills, instead of driving like maniacs, to vary their speed according to the circumstances and the conditions prevailing at the time.

Only then, shall we be able to use our roads as they were intended to be used as a means of getting from A.to B. in a safe and sensible way, then, if these young idiots don't conform, take their licences off them until they do and stop pussyfooting around.

Originally posted by halevan
if these young idiots don't conform, take their licences off them until they do and stop pussyfooting around.

Good point Hal, but will taking a young idiots licence stop him getting behind the wheel of another car?

Also, what about the many OLD idiots? As a 21 year old, I don't regard my driving as idiotic at all. I have held a full licence for 4 years (passed 1st time), and have not even SCRATCHED my car since. I still have to pay ridiculously high insurance premiums as a result of young idiots you refer to, but please don't tar us all with the same brush.

Have a lot of sympathy for you t020. I remember having the same problem when I was younger.

On a slightly different note. As I've spent most of my time driving around Europe I do have to admit that Sheffield drivers in general tend to be 'docile'. I'm sometimes flabbergasted at how people drive and can only conclude that some sleep drive or are extremely unaware of others around them.

But back to the point. Sheffield has a pretty good bus system. A lousy tram system. Others modeled their trams on our mistakes. But the roads are third world and the new traffic calming systems are suicidal. Also the traffic light timings need to be played with to make it more effeicient and a one way system is not always the most efficient way to control traffic. Also bus lane timings ought to be better designed.

I used to be a traffic surveyor and think sheffield council has a lot to answer for.

These are all great views. MY street has recently been narrowed at the top to try and stop the cars speeding off the main road and straight down it. Just wondered if anyone else has any views on this topic.

Rob

Originally posted by Mawgan
The only way to do this is to firstly get a sensible transport policy and secondly to educate motorists and stop blatantly ripping them off with things like cameras that are sited badly, do little to actually reduce speed other than at that point and cause nothing but resentment and raise anger, (not to mention revenue which does not all go back into road safety - if it did I'd be less bothered).

I regularly drive along the Penistone Road and there is always a stream of traffic suddenly braking by the two sets of cameras, which then rapidly accelerate once they are past them. I cannot see why that road has a limit of either 30 or 40 along it, (other than at the top of the hill where there is a lot of housing).

The speed humps along Rustlings road have damaged the exhaust pipe of my car, (they are too big there is a legal limit for these things and my car is low) and I have to crawl over them at a walking pace to not damage the car. Thats fine, I don't mind that except that I get horns of following motorists blaring, lights full beam in my face and all sorts of verbal abuse at times when driving along there. Several times I've had people pull out and overtake me then proceed along the road at 40+, these things just don't work to slow this type of driver. I now don't use that road but head further up, go along Greystones Road and back down, so now I'm using more fuel aswell to get from A to B. Hardly economical.

Try asking someone from the emergency services what they think about traffic calming measures. They are a nightmare for them. I fully expect to hear of an accident caused by one of them these days..

I'm all in favour of sensible limits in towns and cities, around residential areas, schools and so on. Good idea to reduce the speed there and give pedestrains the right of way. I am dead against automatic limiters etc. As RPG said, they limit your ability to control the vehicle; ever had to speed up to get into a position to let an ambulance through?

Back to the transport policy thing. I spent a lot of time In Zurich and never once needed a car there. I'd be able to get a bus, tram or a train from within a few minutes walk of my house, to within a few minutes of where I needed to be. They were cheap, clean, safe for single women at night, on time and efficient. If I did use a car to get around, it would take me far longer, so I rapidly gave up. Why can't we orgainise this in this country? I can neither get around town to do what I need to do, or get to and from work without a car here. Solve that problem and there would be far fewer cars on the road and a lot of the problem would be solved.

Sorry for the rant folks, but I feel very stongly about this sort of thing. I worked in road safety for 6 years and have a PhD in the subject, (so am not just a militant car owner..). We are just not approaching this in a sensible way in this country.

Edited to add. Take a look at http://www.abd.org.uk/ or http://www.safespeed.org.uk/ You will find a few of us with cars that are all in favour of increasing safety by doing something that actually works to do that..

Hooray! Somebody speaking sense!

And for a bit of controversy... when are pedestrians going to start taking a bit of responsibility for their own safety?