What chance have the Tories got at the next election when NuLabour suck up to the rich like this ?

http://money.guardian.co.uk/news_/story/0,1456,1396196,00.html

I hope they have no chance of getting into power, actually.

Haven't voted for phoney tony's lot in years now.

http://money.guardian.co.uk/news_/s...1396196,00.html

This leaves a funny taste in my mouth.
Bitterness I think.

Ho Hum. We need a revolution. Anybody up for it?

I knock off at 2 today.

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
Haven't voted for phoney tony's lot in years now.

http://money.guardian.co.uk/news_/s...1396196,00.html

This leaves a funny taste in my mouth.
Bitterness I think.

Ho Hum. We need a revolution. Anybody up for it?

I knock off at 2 today.

Well, I was going to have a nice quiet day in but I suppose I could make the effort :P

We have pretty much the same crappy system as America now, with two parties that stand a chance of getting in, but who are so similar it doesn't really matter who the hell you vote for. Maybe in a few years the Lib Dems will get a chance because people will be so annoyed at the other two.

I thought the tories had always been the party of the rich and powerful?

the Tories are the party of the rich and middle class, but Labour seem to be moving to be Conservative Mark 2.

I'm not going to vote for either of them..

Disgraceful double standards. People who have been left penniless because of business fraud get no help from the government, but fat cats get hand outs. Diabolical.

I think that you have go the wrong end of the stick here.

The article is VERY misleading

All that is happening is that the self administered pension rules have been revised to allow domestic property in addition to the already allowed commecial property. this is simply in recognition that many ordinary people have property in thier private pension, and buy-to-let has only recently become a widespread investment.

Nobody has taken any money out of anybodys pockets, and it has absolutely bugger all to do with pension fund collapses.

In fact the government has done the reverse and put money back into peoples pockets who are investing in thier retirement instead of relying on being a burden to the welfare state.

Just had a message from Tony and he asked me to tell you all:
" Because Cherie and I have spent some of our well-deserved little breaks in the West Indies , Italy , Egypt ,Tuscany and 1 or 2 other spots as guests of some very nice people , it doesn't mean that we've forgotton the toiling masses who stay at home and help to make this country into the vision I had of it in the dark days of 1997. Oh no.
When I do nip off for a quick weekend or so, I do leave you all in the capable hands of our own Good Old Socialist Fighter , John "Regions " Prescott.John has been criticised in the past for having 2 Jags and God knows how many houses and so on ...but even now , he hasn't forgotton his roots.Every Feb 17th. he will nip into the Hull and Hell W.M.C. and swig a campari back with the lads.
Remember, ours is a "broad Church Party " .We have a large number of diverse groups in our" Party of the People."There is nothing I like better than a good old "Knees-Up " at No. 10 with a wide range of Film stars , businessmen , entrepeneurs , estate agents , media folk , pop stars and Europols-----in fact the full breadth and width of our Great Society. So , please--spare a thought for your Prime Minister. After all, he is thinking of YOU"

Originally posted by Tony
I think that you have go the wrong end of the stick here.

The article is VERY misleading

All that is happening is that the self administered pension rules have been revised to allow domestic property in addition to the already allowed commecial property. this is simply in recognition that many ordinary people have property in thier private pension, and buy-to-let has only recently become a widespread investment.

Nobody has taken any money out of anybodys pockets, and it has absolutely bugger all to do with pension fund collapses.

In fact the government has done the reverse and put money back into peoples pockets who are investing in thier retirement instead of relying on being a burden to the welfare state.

Then you don't think that a massive tax subsidy for the wealthy to buy holiday homes and 'buy-to-let' housing will have any bearing on the current situation of the significant downturn in the ability of first time buyers to get on the property ladder ?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1451223,00.html

And you have no qualms about...."The national audit office estimates that a quarter of the £10bn [pensions tax relief] goes to the top 2.5% of earners.

"Unto those that have shall more be given, but from those that have not, shall be taken away even that which they have."

Amen to that - vote NuLabour :rolleyes:

Meh, I realise I probably sound overly cynical for my age but IMO all Politicians are the same, just out for what they can get for themselves... :rolleyes:

Especially the likes of "2 Jags" Prescott, the man's as chav as they come! Sorry :lol:

It is high time Blair and a number of other corrupt politicians in this country were properly investigated in the way that the police investigate the money laundering activities of drug dealers and other criminals.

[i]

In fact the government has done the reverse and put money back into peoples pockets who are investing in thier retirement instead of relying on being a burden to the welfare state. [/B]
Are you saying that allthe people that have been paying into a state pension by the way of NI contributions are going to be a burden on the welfare state?

If this is so, would it not be a correct assumption that we are all paying into a fund that has no redemption value or very little to offer?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all opt out of the NI contributions and just put it away for our old age..........It would be better than subsidising fat cats and govenment pensions.

I pay into a private pension as well as the state pension........

Wow Tony!!! you are normally a bit faster at replying than at this rate..........
Is it something I said????

lol he is probably speech less mate,as for the tories I want to see that party finished for good then we might get some of their votes.
Micheal Howard is simply an oppotunist who jumps on any band wagon he thinks will get him votes,a bit like blair really.

Originally posted by royjames
lol he is probably speech less mate,as for the tories I want to see that party finished for good then we might get some of their votes.
Micheal Howard is simply an oppotunist who jumps on any band wagon he thinks will get him votes,a bit like blair really.
Like the rest of the beurochrats that lie and decieve to get what they want..........I am personally fed up with paying around 200 pounds a month in NI contributions to be told that we will be lucky if we get a pension.............I would rather take that money and invest it the way i want to....not what the rip off artists and thieves in the government want to do with it!!!!

Talk about legalised crime........Dont Steal!!!! THe government hates competition

Originally posted by Delboy3
Are you saying that allthe people that have been paying into a state pension by the way of NI contributions are going to be a burden on the welfare state?

If this is so, would it not be a correct assumption that we are all paying into a fund that has no redemption value or very little to offer?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all opt out of the NI contributions and just put it away for our old age..........It would be better than subsidising fat cats and govenment pensions.

I pay into a private pension as well as the state pension........

They are most certainly going to be a burden to the welfare state, and the token amounts paid in now are effectively worthless about 7 weeks after you have paid them.

That is why many people have taken matters into their own hands and do not wish to rely on state pensions or other handouts. Why do you feel the need to castigate them for doing so? Remember, you will benefit from this amendment when you rent out those lovely houses to 'idiots' as you boasted the other day.

Originally posted by Delboy3
Wow Tony!!! you are normally a bit faster at replying than at this rate..........
Is it something I said????
No, seeing as it was such a lovely day I took the opportunity for a nice drive out to an art gallery to see if there was anything worth investing into my pension... tax free ;)

I see Micheal Howard has decided to put immigration as one of the priorities of a future tory goverment,but dont forget that when he was the home secretary he gave amnesties to thousands of asylum seekers.
There i s only one party who will tackle this head on and thats my party.:thumbsup:

Originally posted by royjames
I see Micheal Howard has decided to put immigration as one of the priorities of a future tory goverment,but dont forget that when he was the home secretary he gave amnesties to thousands of asylum seekers.
There i s only one party who will tackle this head on and thats my party.:thumbsup:

And what has that to do with this thread ? If you want to discuss immigration start a thread on that topic.

Your constant interjections of "look at me I'm BNP" are getting a bit tiresome :rolleyes:

This is about the tory party and so it is very relevant.

The Government have already announced (though very quietly) about 3 years ago that anyone born after 1955 (I think, and I could be wrong) will not get a state pension.

The bare fact are that the falling birth rate will mean there is not enough money in the pot to pay everyone a state pension. And come on, we don't have to be mathmaticians to work that one out. The NI we pay goes towards the GNP (gross national product) and isn't put on one side for your pension. Galling I know, I am among those who are going to miss out. But, at the end of the day what would you do if you were in power? There is nothing you can do except increase taxes. The Government don't want to increase taxes this side of an election - easy to see why. You think any other party has any better ideas??? Each party, if elected, will have to face the same problems. And I will guarantee you this - if the Conservatives get power you will be even more worse off than you are now. I wish people would stop winging and start thinking about how we can solve this problem. We have an ageing population and a falling birth rate - it doesn't take einstein to work out the imbalance here.

Originally posted by Hels
The Government have already announced (though very quietly) about 3 years ago that anyone born after 1955 (I think, and I could be wrong) will not get a state pension.

The bare fact are that the falling birth rate will mean there is not enough money in the pot to pay everyone a state pension. And come on, we don't have to be mathmaticians to work that one out. The NI we pay goes towards the GNP (gross national product) and isn't put on one side for your pension. Galling I know, I am among those who are going to miss out. But, at the end of the day what would you do if you were in power? There is nothing you can do except increase taxes. The Government don't want to increase taxes this side of an election - easy to see why. You think any other party has any better ideas??? Each party, if elected, will have to face the same problems. And I will guarantee you this - if the Conservatives get power you will be even more worse off than you are now. I wish people would stop winging and start thinking about how we can solve this problem. We have an ageing population and a falling birth rate - it doesn't take einstein to work out the imbalance here.
winging is one thing......Being taken for a ride is another.
The initial reasons for the NIC were for the working man to have a safety net and a pension.
The governments have over the years raided the pot and did exactly what people like Robert Maxwell did with his employees pension fund.

If we are not to get a return on the monies paid into a fund over a lifetime.......please tell me why any sane person would bother in the first place...except that in this system we are forced to make the payments as a tax.


It is unfair that people pay in to this fund and them have to pay again into a private pension.
Even then! after paying into a private pension we are not guaranteed the return that is required to live out our old age in the comfort that we have worked and paid for.

One way to sort it out would be to stop the Benefits system and drop the NIC all together.
Make the working population open fixed deposit accounts where they have to put in lets say 11% of their pay in for a period of 30 to 40 years.

This would also help the economy as the lazy scroungers would have to get off their backsides and work to live.

With a working population of 23 mill and an overall population of just under 60 million......it doesnt take too much of the imagination as to where the money has gone!

What would happen to the ones who cannot work due to severe disability I await the cries!!!
There are different ways that you can define severe disability.
and from what I have seen at shopping centres with people that drive in and park at the disabled spots......Most of them shouldnt be classed as severly disabled and are quite capable of an 8 hour day at an office or work from home computer job.

We work to live......Those that dont.....will have to rely on their families to help them out!!!

If you say that this cannot work......I lived in a country where there are no benefits and it does work!!