Article in the Guardian (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/10/21/longterm_view_looks_cloudy_for.html)

Very, very interesting article about why coaches are hardly likely to be clamouring over each other to land the England job when McClaren is given the boot.

Seems an odd discussion to be having now he finally appears to have an idea of what he's doing. Who's to say the next guy won't take two years to work it out and then we'll have missed a World Cup.

Seems an odd discussion to be having now he finally appears to have an idea of what he's doing. Who's to say the next guy won't take two years to work it out and then we'll have missed a World Cup.

Nonsense. The international setup is not a stage for a manager to learn his trade as he goes along. McClaren gets two wins against poor opposition, and people forget just how inept we were against Croatia and Macedonia. Or how a very average German team not only beat us, but dominated us for large spells.

Boil it down to the facts: before Russia scored, we were leading through a solitary goal, which also happened to be offside. McClaren is hiding behind the notion that "we didn't deserve to lose to Russia". That too is nonsense. We failed to put a very average set of players to the sword. The coach demonstrated why he is unsuited to the job when, with 20 minutes to go and 2-1 down, he makes a series of bizarre substitutions that throw the team into disarray. No tactical shift to pressure the Russians, just 'throw on every forward possible, hit and hope'. Joleon Lescott at left-back? Ridiculous.

Would Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool or Man Utd allow an inexperienced manager 2 years to learn on the job? Or keep him in a job once it became apparent he is not up to the task? No, of course not. Why should it be any different with England?

We should have won our qualification group with relative ease: none of the opposition we have faced are anything approaching world class. I'm amazed McClaren has been allowed so much time to prove his ineptitude.

The England job is a poison chalice apart from the salary I can't think of a reason why anyone would want it.

Seems an odd discussion to be having now he finally appears to have an idea of what he's doing. Who's to say the next guy won't take two years to work it out and then we'll have missed a World Cup.

He still has no idea what he's doing. He got wins against sides that could have been beaten by a Chamionship side, and lost when he came up against a half decent side - and Russia are no more than that.

He's abysmal - his side don't play well together - and I've gone right off watching England.

The England job is a poison chalice apart from the salary I can't think of a reason why anyone would want it.

Quite right - I'd rather be a toilet cleaner in Mumbai than have a massively well paid job where people hang onto my every word, I can boss millionaires about and every woman on the planet wants to sleep with me.....

Quite right - I'd rather be a toilet cleaner in Mumbai than have a massively well paid job where people hang onto my every word, I can boss millionaires about and every woman on the planet wants to sleep with me.....

Would you use Damascus - sends you clean around the bend

Would you use Damascus - sends you clean around the bend

Damascus???

I read the other day that only 30% of starting line ups in the Premiership were English players.

Compare this to around 60% in the Italian league. At least when the top Italian teams sign foreign players they're some of the best in the world.

The same thing is happening to England as the Scots, whereby most of their top teams were made up of foreign players and the Scottish players weren't given a chance to come through. I can only see it getting worse. It's hypocritical to cheer on Arsenal and Liverpool, made up of mostly foreign players, then complain that England are sh*te.

Look at Sweden and Greece, I think they're top of their groups despite having uncelebrated domestic leagues. Their top players get good experience abroad and they have a solid pool of home based players to pick from.

That, and McClaren is still learning his job.

I disagree with the majority on here clearly. I think England have started to play well irrespective of their results, they look better balanced and more effective going forward than they ever did during Eriksson's reign. When I look at the line-up in Russia, I really can't think of anyone else he should have played - not Phil Neville surely? Maybe Robinson should have been dropped but who would you replace him with , David James? a man who's been booed off more times than SWP's played for Chelsea.

When the subs came on they seemed fairly sensible, essentially a forward on for a defender. It didn't pay off but it's not like Benitez introducing a right back when trying to chase the game in the Champions League Final.

I wanted O'Neill to get the job but that's in the past now. If you were going to sack McLaren it should have been last year.

Finally; Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd have all gone through periods of underperformance with their current managers, Man Utd fans are pretty glad the board didn't sack Ferguson which was what their fans were clamouring for.

Finally; Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd have all gone through periods of underperformance with their current managers, Man Utd fans are pretty glad the board didn't sack Ferguson which was what their fans were clamouring for.

Those teams underperformance doesn't usually end with them failing to qualify for the Champions League.... McClaren was never really any good at Middlesborough either. I'd rather Kevin Keegan were in charge.

I happened upon another stat this morning which was pretty alarming:

English players registered for Champions League: 26

Brazillian players registered for Champions League: 98

The article I read claims that out of England, France, Italy, Spain, Brazil and Argentina, England have the lowest number of players registered for European club competitions.

Now, look at how the national sides are fairing and keep that in mind...

Scotland now have to have 4 homegrown players in there team and look at there qualification group no one gave them hope but they are in with a better shout than England at making Euro 2008. We should have at least 3 English players in match day squad look in Spain, Italy, France, Holland & even Portugal there teams are made up of mainly home grown talent with a few foreigners we invented football but English players are overpriced Curtis Davis will probably never be worth £10m but thats what West Brom wanted Theo Walcott £12m at 17 so teams look abroad

Playing in the Champions League doesn't neccesarily make players better and can hinder them on the international stage.

Most of the games are against teams that would struggle in the Premiership and England players are usually knackered by the summer with the amount of games played.

The hunger and better performances has come with players outside the top-4 being drafted in who don't shave their chests and aren't perpetually tired. Well, they might shave their chests but not in a Lampard sort of way.

All's needed is pride and passion, for the qualifiers anyway. An Israeli player made a good point - that if they had only two players of a standard of England's and with the rest of their journeymen, they'd have qualified from the group. They may well have done as well.

Think that the red strip should be the first kit as well. White just doesn't cut the mustard of subconscious motivation for England and instill an unspoken nagging fear in opponents. It would hardly be a sacrosant move given the red kits glorious history.

Playing in the Champions League doesn't neccesarily make players better and can hinder them on the international stage.

Most of the games are against teams that would struggle in the Premiership and England players are usually knackered by the summer with the amount of games played.
So then, what you're saying, is that a struggling Premiership side could hold it's own in the Champions League?
I agree with you that we play too many games throughout our season with no real break, which is followed by a major International tournament in which alot of our top players are crying out for a rest.
Can't agree with you regarding the standard of the Champions League though. I would say you could pick any one of the teams involved in the Champions League and they would be more than capable of holding their own in the Premiership! Four or five of the top teams would possibly even win it!