come on you blues!!!!!!!!!

Does any one really care what with there being much more important sporting events this weekend?

Though I'd like to see the Toffees stuff the Reds so Rafa gets sacked and then Liverpool can down hill quickly :)

I like Everton and hope they win 3-1 Liverpool havent had the best start so could be possible with Cahill and Arteta running the midfield and Gerrard might not be so confident after his miss in Russia

this is the most important sporting event this weekend!!

stuff the rugby and grand prix..

I can see a demolision job tommorow. 5-0 Everton.

I like Everton and hope they win 3-1
Oh well, atleast you gave us a goal :hihi:

Liverpool havent had the best start
Only their second best start since the Premiership began!! Everton have started worse ..... Four losses already?

Gerrard might not be so confident after his miss in Russia
Gerrard wasn't confident before the miss! His form and confidence is rock bottom at the moment!

Just looking through some facts/stats from previous Merseyside Derbies.
Some interesting ones here:

EVERTON v LIVERPOOL

Overall league record: Liverpool 65 wins, Everton 56 wins, Draws 55.

At Everton: Liverpool 28 wins, Everton 33 wins, Draws 27.

In the first of last season's meetings, following a break for Internationals, Everton defeated Liverpool 3-0 at Goodison. Tim Cahill opened the scoring with Andy Johnson scoring twice.

Liverpool have a total of 16 points from their opening eight games this season. Only once in the last 11 seasons have they started better - in 2002-03 they had 18 points.

Liverpool have lost just two of the last nine Derbies at Goodison winning five of the last seven.

The Reds have lost just two of the last 15 meetings home and away.

This is the 22nd time Liverpool have been asked to kick off at this time on a Saturday for the benefit of television in the last 25 months.

The Reds are one of only three teams unbeaten away from home in the Premiership. The others are Arsenal and Blackburn Rovers.

They have conceded just one goal away from home in the league. No team in England has a better record.

The Reds have kept only one clean sheet in the last seven league visits to Goodison.

David Moyes has managed a winning side against Liverpool only twice in 11 tussles.

Tim Howard has kept clean sheets in both his appearances for Everton against Liverpool.

The Blues have not managed back to back top half finishes since the start of the Premier League.

Current League Positions:

Liverpool: Pld 8 Won 4 Drawn 4 Lost 0 Goals For 14 Against 4 Pts 16 Position: 4th.

Everton: Pld 9 Won 4 Drawn 1 Lost 4 Goals For 12 Against 11 Pts 13 Position: 10th.

Leading scorers this season: (League in brackets)

Liverpool: Torres 7 (4), Voronin 4 (3), Kuyt 3 (0), Alonso 2 (2), Benayoun 2 (1), Babel 1 (1), Crouch 1 (0), Gerrard 1
(1), Hyypia 1 (0), Sissoko 1 (1), own goals 1 (1).

Everton: Lescott 5 (3), McFadden 4 (1), Anichebe 2 (1), Osman 2 (2), Yakubu 2 (1), Johnson 1 (1), Pienaar 1 (1), Stubbs 1 (1), own goals 1 (1).


Now looking at the above stats, I would say a draw looks the most likely. Hope Liverpool win but it will take a mega performance to achieve it. 1 - 1 for me!

Oh well, atleast you gave us a goal :hihi:


Only their second best start since the Premiership began!! Everton have started worse ..... Four losses already?


Gerrard wasn't confident before the miss! His form and confidence is rock bottom at the moment!

Just looking through some facts/stats from previous Merseyside Derbies.
Some interesting ones here:

EVERTON v LIVERPOOL

Overall league record: Liverpool 65 wins, Everton 56 wins, Draws 55.

At Everton: Liverpool 28 wins, Everton 33 wins, Draws 27.

In the first of last season's meetings, following a break for Internationals, Everton defeated Liverpool 3-0 at Goodison. Tim Cahill opened the scoring with Andy Johnson scoring twice.

Liverpool have a total of 16 points from their opening eight games this season. Only once in the last 11 seasons have they started better - in 2002-03 they had 18 points.

Liverpool have lost just two of the last nine Derbies at Goodison winning five of the last seven.

The Reds have lost just two of the last 15 meetings home and away.

This is the 22nd time Liverpool have been asked to kick off at this time on a Saturday for the benefit of television in the last 25 months.

The Reds are one of only three teams unbeaten away from home in the Premiership. The others are Arsenal and Blackburn Rovers.

They have conceded just one goal away from home in the league. No team in England has a better record.

The Reds have kept only one clean sheet in the last seven league visits to Goodison.

David Moyes has managed a winning side against Liverpool only twice in 11 tussles.

Tim Howard has kept clean sheets in both his appearances for Everton against Liverpool.

The Blues have not managed back to back top half finishes since the start of the Premier League.

Current League Positions:

Liverpool: Pld 8 Won 4 Drawn 4 Lost 0 Goals For 14 Against 4 Pts 16 Position: 4th.

Everton: Pld 9 Won 4 Drawn 1 Lost 4 Goals For 12 Against 11 Pts 13 Position: 10th.

Leading scorers this season: (League in brackets)

Liverpool: Torres 7 (4), Voronin 4 (3), Kuyt 3 (0), Alonso 2 (2), Benayoun 2 (1), Babel 1 (1), Crouch 1 (0), Gerrard 1
(1), Hyypia 1 (0), Sissoko 1 (1), own goals 1 (1).

Everton: Lescott 5 (3), McFadden 4 (1), Anichebe 2 (1), Osman 2 (2), Yakubu 2 (1), Johnson 1 (1), Pienaar 1 (1), Stubbs 1 (1), own goals 1 (1).


Now looking at the above stats, I would say a draw looks the most likely. Hope Liverpool win but it will take a mega performance to achieve it. 1 - 1 for me!

Liverpool have won but Everton were robbed of a nailed on pen.Liverpool look average and have been very lucky today.:roll::roll:

Keith Hackett - were you watching?

Gerrard: 'But ref, surely, that's a red card, not a yellow one. He's the last man in defence. He's got to walk!'

Clattenburg: 'You're right Stevie. Silly me was about to wave the yellow. Imagine how silly that would have looked on Sky! Now, off you go. Psst: I'll also add on a few minutes at the end if you're not winning.'

Gerrard: 'Cheers ref; I knew I could depend on you.'

Gerrard: 'But ref, surely, that's a red card, not a yellow one. He's the last man in defence. He's got to walk!'

Clattenburg: 'You're right Stevie. Silly me was about to wave the yellow. Imagine how silly that would have looked on Sky! Now, off you go. Psst: I'll also add on a few minutes at the end if you're not winning.'

Gerrard: 'Cheers ref; I knew I could depend on you.'

Gerrard: 'that tackle by Kuyt looked far worse than it was, Kuyt is a sound guy he wouldn't do that on purpose'

Clattenburg: ' You're right again, I thought it was a vile tackle initially and was going to seng him off but if you say he didn't mean it I'll let him off and give him a yellow'

well i dont really know what to say??

all i will add is that every liverpool fan in the pub admitted we should have had 2 pens, kuyt might have been sent off, we were robbed and neville shoulf replace robinson for england.

thry all apolagised to me as they left, says more than i could.

Gerrard: 'But ref, surely, that's a red card, not a yellow one. He's the last man in defence. He's got to walk!'

Clattenburg: 'You're right Stevie. Silly me was about to wave the yellow. Imagine how silly that would have looked on Sky! Now, off you go.
The above is bang on!!!!

What is you're arguement? Are you saying that Hibbert shouldn't have been sent off? Or are you saying Gerrard should not complain when a clear red card offence was about to be punished with a yellow card, in a very important derby match??

well i dont really know what to say??

all i will add is that every liverpool fan in the pub admitted we should have had 2 pens, kuyt might have been sent off, we were robbed and neville shoulf replace robinson for england.

thry all apolagised to me as they left, says more than i could.
Preach, the match was a typical derby! A draw would have been a fair result. Everton didn't deserve to lose, I have to admit. Liverpool started better than Everton but Everton played themselves back into it. Lescott was a total menace and was the best player on the pitch. He should have won a penalty at the end!
The sending off of Hibbert changed the game in Liverpools favour however, it was a sending off offence! Liverpool missed many chances towards the end but Everton were allways going to be tired playing with 10 men for most of the second half and 9 men towards the end.

Liverpool look so low on confidence at present so a win at Goodison could be a massive pick-me-up. Everton however, are playing well and confidence is high, they are just not getting the results.

I have to say Preach .......... Everton were unlucky today, but it wasn't as scandulous as alot of people are making out!

The above is bang on!!!!

What is you're arguement? Are you saying that Hibbert shouldn't have been sent off? Or are you saying Gerrard should not complain when a clear red card offence was about to be punished with a yellow card, in a very important derby match??



No what he is trying to say is that Gerrard is trying to ref the game again like he normally does with referees

No what he is trying to say is that Gerrard is trying to ref the game again like he normally does with referees
He was stating a fact! The referee should have known the rules anyway! You are thinking of J Terry anyway fella! He is the one who tries to bully referee's, not Gerrard!

1-2 Liverpool how can you vote for that :huh: did i win? :P

come on you blues!!!!!!!!!
Hey Preach, sorry but i just noticed on you're poll........

You forgot to add the option .... Or none of the above :D

Sorry! I had to have atleast on dig mate.

You would have ;)

You all missed the best derby match yesterday. I watched Rangers v Celtic on Setanta. Great game and the ref outshone the ref at Everton. 9 yellows for Celtic and 2 yellows for Rangers, with both keepers being booked 'cos they thought they were missing out and ran all the way from their goals to get one. And the ref didn't need any assistance from either capt, he managed ok by himself. :P

Imagine if you could turn back time and swap yesterdays refs. At the Liverpool game the Scottish ref wouldn't have understood Gerrard's Scouse accent and vice versa so the yellow would have stood, Neville would have only got a yellow as he would have felt sorry for him, (well somebody has to) and Kuyt would have definately got a red 'cos Holland once knocked us out of the Euro's.;)

He was stating a fact! The referee should have known the rules anyway! You are thinking of J Terry anyway fella! He is the one who tries to bully referee's, not Gerrard!


hibberts was not a red card . He would not have got that if that cheating scum gerrard said something. What about that one that should have been given to Kuyt for that two footed challenge in the air on Neville. Now that was a red card offence. The ref also bottled the assault on Lescott by Carragher at the end of the match. But its not unusual for Liverpool to get really generous decisions from refs is it

hibberts was not a red card . He would not have got that if that cheating scum gerrard said something.
Educating pork springs to mind!

Daftlad, i'll say again... Hibberts dismissal was the correct decision! Gerrard was through on goal with no other defender anywhere near him apart from Hibbert who brought Gerrard down and denied him a goalscoring chance. That is a red card, as stated in the rules of the game! Even Moyes admitted Hibbert had to go!
You say Gerrard cheated! How? He saw the referee had pulled out a yellow card so he simply enquired why, explaining that Hibbert was the last defender and that Hibbert had denied him a goalscoring chance. The referee then realised he was right, and showed Hibbert a red! Gerrard in no way cheated. Any player/captain would have done the same in the same circumstances. What did you expect him to do, just accept that the referee had made a huge mistake and just keep stum, knowing that Everton should be playing with 10 men instead of 11??? Of course Gerrard should say something, only a fool would say Gerrard should have said nothing!

What about that one that should have been given to Kuyt for that two footed challenge in the air on Neville. Now that was a red card offence.
What about it? Nobody has denied what you are saying! You were debating the decision to send off Hibbert! You were wrong so you now bring up other incidents to cover up you're lack of knowledge. You are very bitter so I understand you need to release this bitterness by slagging off Gerrard, even though he did absolutely nothing wrong!
Kuyt made a stupid lunge and although he didn't make contact with the player and didn't show his studs aggresively, he could quite easily have been sent off! Some referee's would have gave him his marching orders, some wouldn't!

The ref also bottled the assault on Lescott by Carragher at the end of the match. But its not unusual for Liverpool to get really generous decisions from refs is it
Carragher was a very lucky boy! Had the referee pointed to the spot, nobody could have had any complaints. Why the referee didn't give it I don't know. Maybe it was because Lescott threw himself a little? Like I said, Carragher got away with that one!
Liverpool did get some decisions go their way yesterday, you're right, but it's not like we have had the rub of the green all the time this season is it? Every team has decisions go for them and against them sometimes, it's the nature of the game. It is also because the referee is human and not a machine which means they are prone to human error, which unfortunately seems to be happening more and more recently. I really don't think it's a 'referee's love Liverpool' thing to be honest Daftlad.... that's just you're bitterness talking!!

Kuyt made a stupid lunge and although he didn't make contact with the player and didn't show his studs aggresively, he could quite easily have been sent off! Some referee's would have gave him his marching orders, some wouldn't

I think most refs would have sent him off, a two footed challenge whether contact is made or not is a sending off offence, he was also airbourne too making the challenge and if neville had not have jumped over the challenge he would have suffered a serious injury. Before you question my bitterness I will remind you I am a class 2 ref so know what I am talking about

paul gerrard brought himself down. and to say lescott threw himself a bit is just blinkered!

all my liverpool supporting mates and family have refrained from rubbing it in because they know how lucky they were! your just so blinkered its untrue.

paul gerrard brought himself down. and to say lescott threw himself a bit is just blinkered!

all my liverpool supporting mates and family have refrained from rubbing it in because they know how lucky they were! your just so blinkered its untrue.
Nah Preach, I realise we got out of jail but to say Gerrard brought himself down is wrong. Even Moyes admitted it was a penalty and that Hibbert had to go. Once that happened Liverpool had many chances to win the game although I will concede that Kuyt maybe could have walked and that Carragher is a very lucky boy for not having a penalty given against him.
I'm not blinkered Preach, I just think that we had a couple of decisions go our way! It wasn't as if Everton were totally overwhelming Liverpool throughout the game and had hords of chances that they failed to convert! When all said and done, the only goal Everton scored was from the boot of a Liverpool player! I can't remember Reine having to make another save in the whole match really, although Everton did have patches where they put us under pressure.
Liverpool took the points but I reckon a draw would have been a fairer result!

I think most refs would have sent him off, a two footed challenge whether contact is made or not is a sending off offence, he was also airbourne too making the challenge and if neville had not have jumped over the challenge he would have suffered a serious injury. Before you question my bitterness I will remind you I am a class 2 ref so know what I am talking about
I did say Kuyt could and maybe should have been sent off Daftlad!!
And if you really are a class 2 referee (which i doubt very much) then you should know (seeing as it's the rules) that once Hibbert had brought down Gerrard, he had to go! You stated that Hibbert should not have been sent off which shows that you don't really know what you're talking about and if you are a class 2 referee, you're a very poor one!

I did say Kuyt could and maybe should have been sent off Daftlad!!
And if you really are a class 2 referee (which i doubt very much) then you should know (seeing as it's the rules) that once Hibbert had brought down Gerrard, he had to go! You stated that Hibbert should not have been sent off which shows that you don't really know what you're talking about and if you are a class 2 referee, you're a very poor one!



I am a class 2 ref Paul, the diffence between you and I is I am not looking all the time through rose tinted spectacles where everything my team does is correct and you cannot seem to take any criticism on board. The point is the ref had a poor game yesterday. Players should not influence refs as to what cards to give. If football players were as sporting as the rugby players we have been watching recently, then top flight football would be well worth watching again

What is you're arguement? Are you saying that Hibbert shouldn't have been sent off? ?

Hibbert should have been sent off, correct. Clear sending off offence (even Gerrard did go down easy)..... But the fact is, Gerra is forever trying to get referees in his back pocket and this is just one instance.


but it wasn't as scandulous as alot of people are making out!

There were 4 defining points in the game.

The ref was going to give yellow, but after words of persuasion from Gerra gave Red. Not against the rules, but it just shows how much sway someone like Gerra has. If say a lesser known player had said it he would have been waved away by the ref.

Kuyt should have gone for a ridiculous lunge, two footed and off the ground.

Lescotts first penalty shout, he may have been backing in a bit, but Finnan (I think it was) had both his arms around his shoulders. If Lescott had been backing in, the ref should have given a free kick to Liverpool, if no free kick is given then a penalty should have been given. SIMPLE

The 2nd penalty shout, clear cut penalty, and there is no dispute of this.

All 4 decisions have gone in Liverpools favour.

hibberts was not a red card . Sorry but it was.


Kuyt made a stupid lunge and although he didn't make contact with the player

LAWS OF THE GAME STATE HE SHOULD. You want to go with the "laws" when it suits your arguement, but when it doesn't you don't. Strange

Nah Preach, I realise we got out of jail but to say Gerrard brought himself down is wrong. Even Moyes admitted it was a penalty and that Hibbert had to go. !

Gerrard went down very easily. But yes, even though he went down easy it should still have been a pen and a sending off.

Preacher does have a point though that you see nothing but Pro-Liverpool. It's not a bad thing, but its ridiculous sometimes that you can't see what is directly in front of you.

Kuyt should have gone for that tackle he led with both feet and could have broke his leg was a shocking decision and Lescott deserved 2 pens Finnan had his arms all over him and Carragher pulled him over Liverpool got lucky could have been different outcome on another day

I enjoyed watching Liverpool yesterday, very much.

:P

Nah Preach, I realise we got out of jail but to say Gerrard brought himself down is wrong. Even Moyes admitted it was a penalty and that Hibbert had to go. Once that happened Liverpool had many chances to win the game although I will concede that Kuyt maybe could have walked and that Carragher is a very lucky boy for not having a penalty given against him.
I'm not blinkered Preach, I just think that we had a couple of decisions go our way! It wasn't as if Everton were totally overwhelming Liverpool throughout the game and had hords of chances that they failed to convert! When all said and done, the only goal Everton scored was from the boot of a Liverpool player! I can't remember Reine having to make another save in the whole match really, although Everton did have patches where they put us under pressure.
Liverpool took the points but I reckon a draw would have been a fairer result!

You seem very blinkered to me.
This is a direct quote of what Moyes said after such a poorly refereed match.
"I am not convinced about the first penalty. It was the coming together of two players. Steven Gerrard's arm goes across Tony Hibbert's before they come together and I think Gerrard slipped. Tony Hibbert did not make a tackle".
"The referee pulls out a yellow card and then the Liverpool captain has a word with him and then it becomes red.
"The decisions he has made happen in football games; you sometimes get them or sometimes you don't. But what we get in the last second of the game was a chance for it to be corrected and it was a result we deserved".

Here are a few quotes from Sunday papers
The People.
David Moyes launched a blistering attack on Mark Clattenburg yesterday after the official sent off Everton stars Phil Neville and Tony Hibbert.
Moyes claimed Clattenburg was not fit to referee for missing the last-minute incident which seemed a clear penalty as Jamie Carragher hauled down Joleon Lescott.
Earlier, Clattenburg had sent off full back Hibbert after claims he was influenced by Kop skipper Steve Gerrard in a derby clash full of drama.
The Sunday Times.
Rafa Benitez had Clattenburg to thank for a pivotal victory and for respite from a fresh inquisition into his decision-making regarding team selection.

The Independent on Sunday
The blood-and-thunder reputation of the English derby is forged on firecrackers such as this, and deep into the night Merseyside was rocking to the sound of controversy. Everton were the understandable drumbeaters, with so many grievances to bang on about that they did not really know where to start.

Check out a few reports yourself from the media, get a balanced view.
Then try to tell us you are not blinkered.

But the fact is, Gerra is forever trying to get referees in his back pocket and this is just one instance..
I'm sorry but Gerrard had every right to qeuiry the referee when it looked like he was going to show a yellow card for a blatently obvious red card offence. This was a match Liverpool needed to win. Lets say Hibbert had got a yellow card and then Kuyt had missed the penalty? Everton would then have an unfair advantage!
Imagine you are watching you're team on TV and you're player is through on goal and he is brought down when about to score? You jump up with joy when you see a penalty given! You then see the referee pull out a yellow card. What would you do? I'll tell ya shall I? You would throw you're arms in the air, shout and scream at the TV "HE'S GOT TO ******** GO REF"!!!!!!
Gerrard wasn't aggresive! He didn't shout or scream in the face of the referee! He appealed what he thought was going to be a wrong decision! He did what every player, manager, pundit or fan would have done. I say this as I would say it had it happen to any other team, because it's true, not because it's Liverpool. However, because it's Gerrard who appealed, maybe it's people making an issue out of it that are the ones being bias???

The ref was going to give yellow, but after words of persuasion from Gerra gave Red. Not against the rules, but it just shows how much sway someone like Gerra has. If say a lesser known player had said it he would have been waved away by the ref..
Whoever said it is irelevent mate. If the referee had produced a yellow card and waved away any protests, he would have been utterly wrong and he would not have enforced the rules of the game as he should have done! It's only because it's Gerrard that people are making an issue out of it! Do you think if the same thing happened to Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry, Lampard, they would'nt have done exactly the same thing?

Kuyt should have gone for a ridiculous lunge, two footed and off the ground..
Agreed. I mentioned earlier that maybe the referee did'nt send off Kuyt because no contact was made! I didn't mean that this was right! Kuyt should have walked, I'm not debating that!

Lescotts first penalty shout, he may have been backing in a bit, but Finnan (I think it was) had both his arms around his shoulders. If Lescott had been backing in, the ref should have given a free kick to Liverpool, if no free kick is given then a penalty should have been given. SIMPLE.
Agreed, but instead nothing was given, so it's 50/50 really. Nobody got a decision even though both players were making offences. Nothing to debate really!

The 2nd penalty shout, clear cut penalty, and there is no dispute of this..
Agreed again. I have said that Carra is a very lucky boy! It was a foul, Carra was holding him. The fact that Lescott went down easily maybe influenced the referee's decision? Still, it was the wrong decision and I have never debated this! How is that blinckered Robbie?

All 4 decisions have gone in Liverpools favour..
2 of the decisions have without doubt assissted Liverpool! However, the other 2 did not. One was a correct call (when Hibbert was sent off) the other was two players making offences for which no player was punished!

LAWS OF THE GAME STATE HE SHOULD. You want to go with the "laws" when it suits your arguement, but when it doesn't you don't. Strange.
Sorry Robbie, I fail to see where I have voiced an opinion just to suit my arguement! Hibbert went and rightly so. Kuyt should have walked but the referee failed to apply the rules. How is that strange?

Gerrard went down very easily. But yes, even though he went down easy it should still have been a pen and a sending off..
Which is what I have said all along!

Preacher does have a point though that you see nothing but Pro-Liverpool. It's not a bad thing, but its ridiculous sometimes that you can't see what is directly in front of you.
Again, although every person always leans towards defending their club and it's players, I fail to see where exactly I have been Pro-Liverpool! All I have done is say it how it is! Nothing more!

You seem very blinkered to me.
This is a direct quote of what Moyes said after such a poorly refereed match.
"I am not convinced about the first penalty. It was the coming together of two players. Steven Gerrard's arm goes across Tony Hibbert's before they come together and I think Gerrard slipped. Tony Hibbert did not make a tackle".
"The referee pulls out a yellow card and then the Liverpool captain has a word with him and then it becomes red.
"The decisions he has made happen in football games; you sometimes get them or sometimes you don't. But what we get in the last second of the game was a chance for it to be corrected and it was a result we deserved".

Here are a few quotes from Sunday papers
The People.
David Moyes launched a blistering attack on Mark Clattenburg yesterday after the official sent off Everton stars Phil Neville and Tony Hibbert.
Moyes claimed Clattenburg was not fit to referee for missing the last-minute incident which seemed a clear penalty as Jamie Carragher hauled down Joleon Lescott.
Earlier, Clattenburg had sent off full back Hibbert after claims he was influenced by Kop skipper Steve Gerrard in a derby clash full of drama.
The Sunday Times.
Rafa Benitez had Clattenburg to thank for a pivotal victory and for respite from a fresh inquisition into his decision-making regarding team selection.

The Independent on Sunday
The blood-and-thunder reputation of the English derby is forged on firecrackers such as this, and deep into the night Merseyside was rocking to the sound of controversy. Everton were the understandable drumbeaters, with so many grievances to bang on about that they did not really know where to start.

Check out a few reports yourself from the media, get a balanced view.
Then try to tell us you are not blinkered.

FFS, I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES THAT LIVERPOOL GOT LUCKY.

I don't know what else I can say!!!!!

D Moyes's comments don't come as a suprise really mate. Managers tend to be angry when decisions go against their teams. Funny though how hardly anyone else has really debated the fact that it was a penalty when Hibbert fouled Gerrard!

What about the chances Liverpool missed? The game could have been well beyond Everton before the penalty decisions in question ever occured! I can't remember Everton ever really threatening Pepe Riene! It was Hyppia who woefully put Everton in front! Having said that I will say again; Liverpool were lucky to get the big decisions and Everton and it's fans have every right to be bemused and upset at the outcome of the game!!!!!!!

I enjoyed watching Liverpool yesterday, very much.
Did you Guddy? How nice for you :D

I enjoyed watching Liverpool yesterday, very much.

:P

I enjoyed watching Chelsea more on match of the Day. Alex's goal was Mint. Who needs Frank!?

I enjoyed watching Chelsea more on match of the Day. Alex's goal was Mint. Who needs Frank!?
The new management at Chelsea do seem to have weathered the storm, more's the pity :D

It was a stunning strike though by Alex, unstoppable!!!!

The new management at Chelsea do seem to have weathered the storm, more's the pity :D

It was a stunning strike though by Alex, unstoppable!!!!

Maybe, but they are not in the harbour yet.;)

Maybe, but they are not in the harbour yet.;)
Next summer is critical for Chelsea! It is then that they will know just exactly who wants to stay and who wants to go! It's then a case of seeing if (assuming any big players leave) they can replace these big players with players of the same quality or better! I suppose it depends on how Chelsea actually do this season really!

I have high hopes for our new assistant manager, the first 30 mins or so we played really well. Lots of movement and short passing, as was illustrated by the first goal.

FFS, I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES THAT LIVERPOOL GOT LUCKY.

I don't know what else I can say!!!!!

D Moyes's comments don't come as a suprise really mate. Managers tend to be angry when decisions go against their teams. Funny though how hardly anyone else has really debated the fact that it was a penalty when Hibbert fouled Gerrard!

What about the chances Liverpool missed? The game could have been well beyond Everton before the penalty decisions in question ever occured! I can't remember Everton ever really threatening Pepe Riene! It was Hyppia who woefully put Everton in front! Having said that I will say again; Liverpool were lucky to get the big decisions and Everton and it's fans have every right to be bemused and upset at the outcome of the game!!!!!!!

If you're not blinkered what is your excuse for how you saw this poorly refereed match?
As I pointed out the general consensus of opinion from the papers and media is in direct opposition to that of your self.
I watched the match in the pub and there were several Liverpool supporters who could not believe how lucky they were with the decisions made by the ref and Gerrard.
Last season Gerrard cheated to get two pens off Sheffield United, this is just the sort of behaviour real football supporters do not want to see in football.
You say this is a really important match for Liverpool to win; every match is important for every team why should it just be important to Liverpool? Could this be why people see you as blinkered?
You may well be LFC mad but others like to see fairness and a good sporting attitude, Gerrard and Carragher showed none of this (Carragher could easily have been sent off by a ref following the rules:- he had already been booked, had had a lecture from the ref then assaulted Lescott in the penalty area in the 90th minute) You seem to like the rule of sending off opposition players but not those in Liverpool shirts.

Clattenburg's personal advisor is Anders Frisk! I thought the Newcastle-offical's performance worse than Styles in the Chelsea game, so I await what Hackett decides? It wasn't just the missed penalties, it was Kuyt's (Cantona-like) lunge.
Just watched it all again on Sky with Gray and almost everyone is as mystified about the refereeing as Gerrard was to be substituted.

Clattenburg's personal advisor is Anders Frisk! I thought the Newcastle-offical's performance worse than Styles in the Chelsea game, so I await what Hackett decides? It wasn't just the missed penalties, it was Kuyt's (Cantona-like) lunge.
Just watched it all again on Sky with Gray and almost everyone is as mystified about the refereeing as Gerrard was to be substituted.

My take on Rafas substitution of Gerrard is that he believed Gerrard could possibly be to drawn into the 'passion' of a derby game, and eventually do something daft i.e. get sent off , injure someone or himself.

If you're not blinkered what is your excuse for how you saw this poorly refereed match?.
My excuse for how I saw this poorly refereed match is ........
That it was a very poorly refereed match!!! I've constantly stated this! Are you determined to ignore the fact that I agree with everyones views that Everton can feel really hardly done by, and the fact that I have repeatably admitted that Kuyt was lucky not to be sent off and that Carragher was lucky not to have given away a penalty? Both those events, I have said, were bad refereeing decisions. What is it you are wanting me to say?

The only point I disagree with on here is that IMO, Gerrard had every right to ask the referee why he was about to show a yellow card when the player had commited a blatant red card offence!

Last season Gerrard cheated to get two pens off Sheffield United, this is just the sort of behaviour real football supporters do not want to see in football..
Gerrard didn't cheat at all! In the first instance Gerrard made a run into the box and a challenge came in. There was no contact but the momentum took Gerrard off balance. Gerrard however, didn't just go down (as people seem to think) he actually tried to carry on and even got a shot on target which was saved. The referee then pointed to the spot!! That is not Gerrards fault man, it is a very poor refereeing decision! Gerrard didn't even appeal for a penalty, he tried to score!
The second instance, I don't know what your on about! As far as I was aware, there was only contriversy over one penalty against Sheff Utd!
Gerrard didn't cheat by asking the referee why he was about to show a yellow card to a player that had commited a red card offence. Why shouldn't he ask? The Everton players asked the referee why he didn't send Kuyt off for a two footed lunge (which was the wrong decision) so what is the difference? I'll tell you what the difference is; It was Steven Gerrard!

You say this is a really important match for Liverpool to win; every match is important for every team why should it just be important to Liverpool? Could this be why people see you as blinkered?.
What I meant was, it was a derby, a rivalry match full of passion where all the players were pumped up. Ontop of that Liverpool were desperate to get back to winning ways after having a poor run of results and bad form. I think you know what I meant anyway!

You may well be LFC mad but others like to see fairness and a good sporting attitude, Gerrard and Carragher showed none of this (Carragher could easily have been sent off by a ref following the rules:- he had already been booked, had had a lecture from the ref then assaulted Lescott in the penalty area in the 90th minute).
FFS that doesn't make Carragher unfair and a bad sportsman fella! It means the referee failed to punish Carragher for the incidents you have stated! You are making it seem like Liverpool are a team full of murderers, when infact it was just a very, very poor refereeing performance!

You seem to like the rule of sending off opposition players but not those in Liverpool shirts.
I'll say it one more time because this is getting a little boring; IMO
1. When Hibbert fouled Gerrard and prevented him a goalscoring opportunity, Hibbert should have been sent off, and he was. Correct decision!

2. When Kuyt left the ground, with both feet off the floor, in an attempt to tackle an Everton player, Kuyt should have been sent off, but he wasn't.
Wrong decision!

Correct me if i'm wrong but; doesn't Kuyt play for Liverpool?

You are making a real big deal out of this, when i'm actually agreeing with most things you say! The only thing I don't agree with you on is that I believe Gerrard had every right to ask the referee why he was about to show Hibbert a yellow when he had commited a straight red card offence!

Jesus fella, you're as bad as having a wife! They also want us to agree with absolutely everything they say too!!!!!

One further thing...... Gerrard was just outside the area when contact was first made..... Penalty? Well....

got Daily Star today and it has a pic of Kuyt's tackle (above knee) and that was a yellow card?? the same as you get for kicking ball away or taking off shirt to celebrate people have been sent off for much less and Kuyt is lucky to stay on and now he cant be punished further as he was booked disgraceful decision imo.

It's been brought to attention that the penalty appeal right at the end of the merseyside derby involving Lescott and Carragher, came about directly from an Everton throw. Whilst experts were analysing the footage to determine whether or not it was a penalty, it was another incident that actually caught their eye. If you look closely at the Everton player taking the initial throwing (paying most attention to his feet) you can clearly see that an illegal throwing was made!! His back foot was clearly off the floor, which as we all know, is not allowed! This makes the penalty debate totally irelivent as in the rules of the game states, if a player commits a foul throw, the game should be stopped and the initial throwing is given to the opposing team!!!

Hmmmmmmmm Interesting. Seems the linesman didn't have his eye on the game, aswell as the referee!!!!!

It seems like LFCMadPaul has to defend Gerrard every week now.

It seems like LFCMadPaul has to defend Gerrard every week now.
Why does this seem to be the case Mr JFKvsNixon?
Regarding Saturdays game in which Gerrard appraoched the referee regarding the yellow card; well, I shouldn't have to defend him, he did nothing wrong!
I fail to see what is wrong with Steven Gerrard questioning Mark Clattenburg's original decision that he was to book Tony Hibbert. If you feel a decision is incorrect on the football field then it is only natural to question it. Just about every time a referee gives a free kick it is questioned by someone on the opposition who doesn't feel it was the correct decision. Gerrard was well within his rights to mention to Clattenburg that he felt Hibbert was the last man, i just see this as a case of people using this as another chance to get on Gerrard's back. Wayne Rooney questions a referee's decision every time he has a foul given against him, John Terry is perhaps one of the worse people in the game at the moment for questioning decisions, the list goes on and on, everyone does it. Away from the arguement of whether Gerrard should have questioned Clattenburg, because i feel their is little arguement, the important thing is that Clattenburg got the decision right in the end. He was right to send Hibbert off because he was the last man and denied a goal scoring opportunity. Surely getting the correct decision is the most important thing, irrelivant of how that decision is reached.

Paul, he had told all players to move away and was calling Hibbert over, Gerra took it upon himself to encroach the referee again after being told to move.

Paul, he had told all players to move away and was calling Hibbert over, Gerra took it upon himself to encroach the referee again after being told to move.
And the Everton players that encroached the referee when he issued Kuyt a yellow? Or does that not count?

This is absolute crap!

If we all started a thread everytime a player approached a referee to quiery a decision, the boards would go into meltdown!

Lets make no mistake about it, this is a Steven Gerrard thing!!!!

It's been brought to attention that the penalty appeal right at the end of the merseyside derby involving Lescott and Carragher, came about directly from an Everton throw. Whilst experts were analysing the footage to determine whether or not it was a penalty, it was another incident that actually caught their eye. If you look closely at the Everton player taking the initial throwing (paying most attention to his feet) you can clearly see that an illegal throwing was made!! His back foot was clearly off the floor, which as we all know, is not allowed! This makes the penalty debate totally irelivent as in the rules of the game states, if a player commits a foul throw, the game should be stopped and the initial throwing is given to the opposing team!!!

Hmmmmmmmm Interesting. Seems the linesman didn't have his eye on the game, aswell as the referee!!!!!

That just about takes the cake!

In your previous riposte you claimed that you were only disagreeing on one point, which I will come to shortly, now your scanning player's feet at throw-ins to have another get-out unbelievable!
I did not see the foul throw, but I go along with it to appease your sensibilities.
We will have to agree to disagree over Gerrard as I differ in my opinion to you, I saw him twice cheat against SUFC last season, and I believe that he and Hibbert were in a hell for leather chase Gerrard initially tried to get advantage by swinging his arm out in front of Hibbert there was no trip from Hibbert they simply collapsed in an all out tangle. Now when given the pen, by in my opinion a daft ref, Gerrard has three choices:

1. Tell the ref they simply fell over together... he's not gonna do that, I can't blame him there, who in this age would play in such a sporting manner?
2. Take the penalty decision as given by the ref, but no Gerard goes for broke!
3. He slid over to the ref and seemingly influenced a red card being shown.
He has now had a fellow professional footballer withdrawn from the game. He did not have to speak to the ref; if I was a ref and someone tried to influence me I would give them short shrift.
I have seen Gerrard sent off for reckless challenges I have also seen him get away with a few. Hibbert's challenge may have been naive but it was neither reckless nor dirty nor did it require a sending off, unless the ref believed it to be a deliberate foul challenge. I will tell you now that Neville's hand ball was deliberate and he had to go...there is a difference.
Why, ask yourself; do try and take off the blinkers and stop making out that I am nagging you to agree on something you don't wish to, I only want you to ask yourself why Gerrard needed to get any advantage, however unfair in a game of football. Playing against 10 men spoils 'The Beautiful game.
Rafa could see that Gerrard was playing ‘with his heart ...too much passion and brought him off to save further embarrassment or injury to the player and other players.

Now as for your proposal of marriage, I am flattered but I am already married with 3 kids and a back garden, which incidentally I could do with a hand moving some paving slabs.

That just about takes the cake!

In your previous riposte you claimed that you were only disagreeing on one point, which I will come to shortly, now your scanning player's feet at throw-ins to have another get-out unbelievable!.
Ha ha. Mate I haven't even seen the throwing incident! I read it in an article and to be honest I posted it more with tongue in cheek! I wouldn't be so petty as to disregard a very poor refereeing decision by way of a 'foul throw'!!

Now as for your proposal of marriage, I am flattered but I am already married with 3 kids and a back garden, which incidentally I could do with a hand moving some paving slabs.
I'll be right over with a wheelbarrow and my wellies :D

And the Everton players that encroached the referee when he issued Kuyt a yellow? Or does that not count?


When the players were told to go back they did....

When the players were told to go back they did....
Oh I see!! So this is not about Gerrard swaying the referees decision, as everyone was making out, it's the fact that Gerrard asked the question after being told to go away?

But you said........
Hibbert should have been sent off, correct. Clear sending off offence (even Gerrard did go down easy)..... But the fact is, Gerra is forever trying to get referees in his back pocket and this is just one instance.

The ref was going to give yellow, but after words of persuasion from Gerra gave Red. Not against the rules, but it just shows how much sway someone like Gerra has

Ok, well that clears that up then!

Case dismised!!!

Paul, he had told all players to move away and was calling Hibbert over, Gerra took it upon himself to encroach the referee again after being told to move.
I took you're word for it but you were wrong Robbie!

I have just watched the match again on LFC.TV. When Gerrard was brought down and then approached the referee, at no time whatsoever did the referee wave anyone away for protesting his decision. Infact, Gerrard was the first and only Liverpool player to approach him!!!

So then, do you now accept (considering you're post regarding Everton being able to challenge the referee because they retreated when asked to) that Gerrard did absolutely nothing wrong? And that this has all been (once again) a debate that has esculated for the sole reason that it was'nt just a run of the mill player that was involved, it was Steven Gerrard?

No, the players WERE waved away and referee was awaiting for Hibbert to approach him.

All this is about gamemanship. It isn't just about Gerrard I'm afraid, he is just one of many "pros" who do such thing. It's not something I advocate, but this is a prime example that has been brought to attention.

i have refrained from adding anything else because paul is incapable of bending at all.
i had to add this. cunttenberg has been dropped
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_2817839,00.html

No, the players WERE waved away and referee was awaiting for Hibbert to approach him.

All this is about gamemanship. It isn't just about Gerrard I'm afraid, he is just one of many "pros" who do such thing. It's not something I advocate, but this is a prime example that has been brought to attention.
Well if all this is about Gerrard approaching the referee after being waved away then it's not even worth debating! It happens in every match in every division in every country!
We may as well leave it there fella!

i have refrained from adding anything else because paul is incapable of bending at all.
i had to add this. cunttenberg has been dropped
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_2817839,00.html

Preach, what is it you want me to bend on? I have agreed with everything you have said apart from the Gerrard/Red card incident!

I read the article about Cuttenburg a little earlier and I agree with the suspension. He had a nightmare game, missing crucial incidents and making wrong decisions.

I have tried to be as sympathetic as possible in this situation (considering the result and how glad I was to win it) and I have never once gloated or bragged to try and make you feel worse than you already do (even though the whole game is more about bragging rights etc), but you and others still refuse to accept that apart from one incident, I totally understand why you feel so ripped off!

I give up, I really do :confused:

Well if all this is about Gerrard approaching the referee after being waved away then it's not even worth debating! It happens in every match in every division in every country!
We may as well leave it there fella!

It's about referees being influenced by Gerrard. Players like him have too much power.

this is a Steven Gerrard thing!!!!

Maybe ......... this .......... is ........... the ........... point ........... :thumbsup:

Seriously, and I know you do watch other sides, and other decisions, and you're a decent fan of several years standing and all the rest of it, but aren't you just a little bit embarrassed by this cheat's antics?

It seems that whatever Grumpy Stevie Scally Cheeky Chappy Gerry wants, he gets, and on the rare occasion he doesn't, his perfect coiffure almost moves by itself in fright.

I admired Liverpool 15-25 years ago for being professional, skilful, brilliant, individually talented, well led, well managed and fair.

The people who masquerade as a Liverpool side now aren't fit to lace Jim Beglin's boots.

As for it happening in every division, well, yes, players do moan. But name me the one who sits on his arse, arms open shouting "Penalty?" at the ref on a regular basis having NOT been fouled?

Bang on.

Ronaldo.

(caught you out!)

Oh, and Gerrard :hihi:.

Gerrard has a reputation as bad as a few other players, but he still seems to get away with an awful lot. That is just a tiny bit indisputable.

It's about referees being influenced by Gerrard. Players like him have too much power.
You know what Robbie, I could understand if Gerrard had of shouted and screamed in the referee's face. I could understand if he changed the right decision into a wrong one. The fact is, the referee pulled out the wrong colour card. He held a yellow in his hand when it should have been red. Gerrard without any aggresion asked the referee why this was the case. Having realised his mistake (or that he had the wrong colour card in his hand) he produced a red card (the correct one) which was the right decision, as everyone agree's.

Any player, after being brought down whilst through on goal, with a great chance of scoring would do exactly the same thing if they saw a referee pull out a yellow card instead of a red ......... any player!

You say this thread is about referees being influenced by Gerrard and that players like him have too much power? Surely then this debate should be about referee's being harder and sticking to there guns?. Surely we should be debating the fact that you think referee's are influenced by big players and that referee's should treat them the same as the average Joe player?

Gerrard only did what any other footballer would have done. Whether or not Gerrards words had a bearing on the referee's final decision is the referee's fault! He is the referee, he should make up his own mind about what the correct decision should be!
Gerrard asked the referee why he was going to show a yellow!
Everton players asked the referee why Kuyt wasn't being sent off!

Both players asked. It's natural in cases like that. The referee changed his mind on one occasion, he didn't in the other! It says it all in the previous sentance; The referee changed his mind on one occasion, not Gerrard! In this instance the referee ended up making the right decision as it was a sending off offence. Gerrard shouldn't be lambasted for doing what every other footballer has and would have done because he is Steven Gerrard! The referee should get the blame for not making the right decision in the first place which would have meant that this whole incident would have been avoided!

Gerrard dived
Lescott dived
They all dive all the time

Technically they were all fouls, but when players prefer to go to ground it's difficult to figure out whether a penalty should be given.

Gerrard dived
Lescott dived
They all dive all the time

Technically they were all fouls, but when players prefer to go to ground it's difficult to figure out whether a penalty should be given.

How could Lescott dive he was pulled over backwards?
Sometimes players back-in, but the hold on Lescott would have made Mick McManus proud!