Having read in tonights Sheffield star that our councillors are to get an inflation busting pay rise do people think thet desrve it?
The leader of the council Jan Wilson will get an allowance of£25,429 if she gets the increase.
Seems to me that the pay shoul'd be performance related and as far as i'm converned she dont deserve it.

Originally posted by royjames
Having read in tonights Sheffield star that our councillors are to get an inflation busting pay rise do people think thet desrve it?
The leader of the council Jan Wilson will get an allowance of£25,429 if she gets the increase.
Seems to me that the pay shoul'd be performance related and as far as i'm converned she dont deserve it.
we agree on something!!:D maybe they could filter money down to where its needed, instead of cutting the childrens fund etc....

Hey Natt theres hope for us yet then?
I find that the difference between the leader of the council and the rest to be too large,I know it carries more responsibility but still ?

Is this a pay rise for the sake of it, or a pay rise related to performance? If it's for the sake of it then I'm outraged. I try to keep a track of my pay rises versus the price of a pint of Carlsberg and I'm struggling to keep up - 7% for nowt would do ME just fine.
And yes, I know that a Carlsberg index is probably not the best way of measuring pay rises, but it's what matters to me in the real world!

Just shows the utter contempt that they hold us in. Same as the MP's upping their pension rights but downgrading civil service and health service pensions. I bet there is cross party support for the increases, the only time that councillors will ever vote together as one.
I must stop, my blood pressure is rising to critical levels.....
Any councillors use this forum ?

Just to add a little cavitat to this debate ,my party are commited to performance related pay and NO increase above inflation unless earned.
Just to show the difference between this lot and us,they only care about their wallets.

Originally posted by Cols
Just shows the utter contempt that they hold us in. Same as the MP's upping their pension rights but downgrading civil service and health service pensions. I bet there is cross party support for the increases, the only time that councillors will ever vote together as one.
I must stop, my blood pressure is rising to critical levels.....
Any councillors use this forum ?

Thus far with 2 yes votes, it would appear that 2 councillors are watching :hihi: :hihi:

Originally posted by royjames
Just to add a little cavitat to this debate ,my party are commited to performance related pay and NO increase above inflation unless earned.
Just to show the difference between this lot and us,they only care about their wallets.

That sounds encouraging Roy. So how would you measure performance and any improvements, and would you also take pay cuts if performance fell?

Well Roy, their get out will be that they are following the recommendations of the Independent Panel Review.

Funny how they get a recommendation of 7% while the rest of us get 3% if we are lucky. My husband works for a firm that hasn't given a pay rise for 5 years!

Some of the figures for last year were as follows;

Basic allowance £9838.71

Allowance
for chairmanships £4434.94

child allowance per
half day £20.70

Mileage allowance 40p per mile

Subsistance
Allowance various

All this is before the allowance for leader, deputy leader,cabinet member.


Being a councillor carries renumeration equivalent to a full time job for most people but for councillors it is only the start as many of them are also in full-time employment. Get your head around that one.

Being a Councillor should offer out of pocket expenses only then we would see who were really community minded and who saw it as a meal ticket.

Well if I was not up to the job then yes I ought to take a pay cut,as for measuring your performance this woul'd be acheived by monitoring each department and each brief you have.
LOl Tony you always seem to find me dont you? I suspect that might have something to do with my politics dont you.
Also have to say I thought you was pretty harsh on delboy if it had been anyone else you might have closed the post or suspended it,just an observation.

Interesting is that Mo,just goes to show that you can indeed make a nice living in the job.
The mileage allowance is not bad either is is?
We in my party are considering setting up something called council watch which one of our members in Rotherhan called Marleen guest has some experience of.
Will be speaking to her soon on this very subject,she used to be a candidate for the lib dems but she saw the light and came over to us.
Anyway I feel that this council might have some more going on that we know about.

For people like the Leader of the Council and Committee Chairs, being a Councillor is a full time job. If we expect people to sit on the Council and run the City for us, then we ought to compensate them for the fact that they are giving their time up - and, in some cases, any possibility of getting a decent full time job.

If we follow the principle of "lets make being a Councillor an entirely voluntary activity" then nobody with any skill or capability would ever volunteer to be a Councillor - and the City would go down hill very quickly indeed!

There's a link here showing how much they get now and how much an independent review panel recommended in 2003. However, the allowances are only going up by 5% on current allowances. When you think that is 2 years later than planned it is only 2 1/2 % p.a. in reality.

Members' allowances (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/index.asp?pgid=12774)

Originally posted by royjames
Interesting is that Mo,just goes to show that you can indeed make a nice living in the job.
The mileage allowance is not bad either is is?
We in my party are considering setting up something called council watch which one of our members in Rotherhan called Marleen guest has some experience of.
Will be speaking to her soon on this very subject,she used to be a candidate for the lib dems but she saw the light and came over to us.
Anyway I feel that this council might have some more going on that we know about.


Get her to join the Forum Roy, so we can all share her words of wisdom first hand.

Originally posted by MrHelicopter
For people like the Leader of the Council and Committee Chairs, being a Councillor is a full time job. If we expect people to sit on the Council and run the City for us, then we ought to compensate them for the fact that they are giving their time up - and, in some cases, any possibility of getting a decent full time job.

If we follow the principle of "lets make being a Councillor an entirely voluntary activity" then nobody with any skill or capability would ever volunteer to be a Councillor - and the City would go down hill very quickly indeed!

Most people would probably give up their full time jobs to earn the leaders salary as most of us don't earn anything like that in 'real life'.

If you are going to make job of Councillor full time then all councillors should be prepared to give up their outside jobs so that they can devote all their time and energy into their civic duties.

I don't know if too much is being read into the figure "7%". Maybe they were being paid below average before, in which case they may be entitled to a 7% increase. Will they now be getting more than councillors in other cities are getting?

I think it's interesting that none of the councillors have added to this thread to justify their 7% increase.

Just why is that?

Have they been sworn to a vow of silence?

Do they ignore the Forum?

Are they a bit embarrassed by the 7% when the vast majority of the working population get rises of less than half that amount?

Come on councillors - we elected you - explain youselves.

You have a duty to do so over this, or most people will reach their own conclusions.

Why do the words NOSE and TROUGH spring immediately to mind here?

Everyone knows people become politicians not to serve or represent others. They do it for themselves. Quite easy to have your socialist policies when you have the authority to vote gargantuan wage increases whilst the rest of your subjects have to put up and shut up.

Jan Wilson and company is no different to any other councillor in the country.

For the sake of comparison, what is the standard pay-rise for council workers this year?

What other job attracts a salary increase while at the same time requires less responsibility and work?

The following Council responsibilities have been passed or about to be to either trusts or outside bodies;

1. Housing stock

2. Museums and theatres

3. Public works

4. Housing benefits

5. Refuse collection

6. Incinerator

7. Sports facilities

8. City Hall

9. Old peoples homes

10. Education advisory service


What the b***** hell do they do in that town hall?

Have meetings. Then they have meetings about those meetings. Then they ...............
Some people make a career out of meetings. The rest of us work for a living.

They get a map of Sheffield's road network and think: 'Right, where can we really get up the motorist's nose today?'

They then take a dart each and throw it at the map which is now pinned to the door. Yellow darts for No Right Turn sign, Red dart for new pedestrian corssing, green dart for a totally unnecessary buslane and a white dart for a Road Closed.

If two darts of the same colour land in the same street, then that street will benefit from 'Traffic Calming Measures' and if three darts of any colour land in the same street then that street's bus lay-bys are to be built out into the street.

Then, they go to their cars parked in their private and free car park and go home to some large house in Derbyshire.

Probably.

Originally posted by Tony
For the sake of comparison, what is the standard pay-rise for council workers this year?

The answers to my question was in todays Sheffield Telegraph.

The average pay rise is 2.95%

congratulations coucillors. we could all do with pay rises. i'll expect my cheque through the post shortly lol

40p/mile is the standard inland revenue rate for <10k miles per annum and is paid by most companies (in my experience, it's what i get at present).

25k for the leader of the council. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. i don't know which 'most people' you are comparing it too Roy, but it's not far from the annual national salary.

Originally posted by Cyclone
40p/mile is the standard inland revenue rate for <10k miles per annum and is paid by most companies (in my experience, it's what i get at present).

.

My husband works for a large (ex) public utility and he gets 7p per mile. I assume he is not the only one.

Originally posted by Cyclone
40p/mile is the standard inland revenue rate for <10k miles per annum and is paid by most companies (in my experience, it's what i get at present).

25k for the leader of the council. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. i don't know which 'most people' you are comparing it too Roy, but it's not far from the annual national salary.

U doughnut!..25K is just her blinkin bonus! so its fair that she gets the equivalent to the national average salary on top of her basic wages? dunno what she earns basic but i bet its in excess of 150k pa

I bet that if some of you guys were councillors and got offered a 7% increase you wouldn't say "oh no it's far too much, what about the other council workers ?".

Loads of people get paid (what we think is) too much, thats the way it goes, it's the way of the world.

Its great to see the council making the first steps in this years wage increases. Im sure they've had lots of time to consider the different rates and that the general public will be informed.

Maybe they are trying to set an early pay increase rate for the city so that all employers in Sheffield will generously give all their employees a 7% increase this year.

Im sure Mr Helicopter would think his pilots are definitely worth a good 7% pay increase this year with all the hard work they have put in.

The drivers of First Buses wouldn't say no I'm sure too and all the social workers. Good trend setting, go for it Jan !

Does anybody know how much our Council tax will rise by this year, in order to pay for these wage increases?

Originally posted by Tony_BLiar
U doughnut!..25K is just her blinkin bonus! so its fair that she gets the equivalent to the national average salary on top of her basic wages? dunno what she earns basic but i bet its in excess of 150k pa

unless i read it wrong you're the doughnut :P
That's all she gets. I'm pretty sure she doesn't get a basic wage in excess of the prime ministers.

Originally posted by Mo
My husband works for a large (ex) public utility and he gets 7p per mile. I assume he is not the only one.

I take it he gets a company car? Or he fills in a form at the end of the year to reclaim the difference from the inland revenue?

That's what most people would do.

Originally posted by dishwasher
[B]I think it's interesting that none of the councillors have added to this thread to justify their 7% increase.

Just why is that?

In my case because I've been too busy to check the Forum since about Tuesday, and I haven't even seen anything about pay increases until a few minutes ago. You'd think the council would tell councillors before the newspapers.

Anyway, I'll try and get back over the weekend when I've found out what's going on.

--
JGH

Originally posted by jgharston
In my case because I've been too busy to check the Forum since about Tuesday, and I haven't even seen anything about pay increases until a few minutes ago. You'd think the council would tell councillors before the newspapers.

Anyway, I'll try and get back over the weekend when I've found out what's going on.

--
JGH
Hey, your leader, the Holy Scrivenness knows about it, he was in the Star commenting, ask him...

Originally posted by Cyclone
I take it he gets a company car? Or he fills in a form at the end of the year to reclaim the difference from the inland revenue?

That's what most people would do.

Will pm you

I know many councillors and the majority of them are back benchers who take the basic allowance which was shown in the link I posted earlier. Yes, they have to attend council meetings but there is no mention made of the community meetings, visits to people's homes, roaming surgeries with housing officers or the hours spent on the 'phone with constituents. Not to mention the hours spent on correspondance both email and snail mail.

As to councillors doing it for reasons other than to help their fellow Sheffielders does anybody know of one? I certainly don't. I know of bus drivers, miners and teachers who give up part of their day job in order to support their constituents. This also means that their pensions are affected when they retire.

Being paid £8,500 for a full working week, which is what most backbenchers do, is not exactly a walk in the park. £25k for running a multi million pound budget? Oh yes, Jan does it for fun.

Get real and if you think that councillors don't do a worthwhile job spend a day with one.

That doesn't alter the fact they should receive inflation busting pay rises when every year council workers receive an inflation rise if they are lucky and the council tax rises way above inflation whilst services are stripped to the bone.

Originally posted by Cols
That doesn't alter the fact they should receive inflation busting pay rises when every year council workers receive an inflation rise if they are lucky and the council tax rises way above inflation whilst services are stripped to the bone.

Maybe the reason councillors are getting an "inflation busting" pay rise is that they were already being paid below the national average for their work.

Well tell you what when we in the BNP get some councillors I will come on here and tell everyone exactly what the job entails.
There will be no more above inflation increase if we get our way,and no more secrecy either.
And one final point we will make this city car friendly again ,not like this lot who seem to get a kick out of making drivers wait in traffic.
You heard it here first.

It would appear that most BNP councillors do bugger all once elected from their attendance record at council meetings where they've been elected.

"Car friendly city" - go on then, be transparent and tell us precisely which communities you'll demolish to make way for roads.

Hi longcol can you tell me which councillors who do bugger all as you put it?
As for the city we can begin with removing those road narrowing schemes which are in place and we can alter the traffic lights sequence which at certain places does not give the driver enough time to move.
We can also increase the available parking in the city centre which in turn will help those small buisnesses which have been hit by meadowhall and the council policy of being anti car.
There is much more but we will be here all night,but we have to start somewhere dont we?

"In Burnley, their attendance at council meetings is abysmal — not one BNP councillor attended the 2003 budget-setting meeting, for example. And when the Guardian quizzed the BNP lead councillor Len Starr last April on any recent BNP initiatives in Burnley, Starr couldn’t come up with a single one."

And with all the extre cars coming into the city centre once you've got rid of road narrowing etc - where are you going to put all the extra car parks?

Originally posted by Cols
That doesn't alter the fact they should receive inflation busting pay rises when every year council workers receive an inflation rise if they are lucky and the council tax rises way above inflation whilst services are stripped to the bone.
When I was elected in 1999 my basic pay was ukp7996. It's now ukp8996. That's 1.98% per year.

--
JGH

So then John, let's get away from the headline figures in the thread title.

Can you estimate the number of hours a week that you spend on Council business and for how many weeks of the year you do that?

I have a sneaky feeeling that the allowance won't look that great as an hourly rate. :suspect:

Originally posted by Tony
So then John, let's get away from the headline figures in the thread title.

Can you estimate the number of hours a week that you spend on Council business and for how many weeks of the year you do that?

I have a sneaky feeeling that the allowance won't look that great as an hourly rate.
I don't know about John, but I've just last week filled in a workload survey. I worked out that I do 55 hours a week, up from 32 hours that I calculated in 1999 when I was previously asked.

One difference personally is that now I am chair of an Area Panel so I get an extra 2k or so. There's a summary of my hours buried somewhere on my website, but 1999/2005 is:

1999 £7996/y 32hr/w £4.79/hr
2005 £11442/y 55hr/w £3.99/hr

So, by taking on more responsibilty, I get paid less. Hmmm.

I'm also on more committees than average[1], but the pay system takes no account of that, even though the pay review document says "we recognise the increased workload of members of Planning and Licensing boards". If that is so, why are only the chairs paid for that workliad?

[1] Corporate Planning Scrutiny, South Planning, Licensing Board, Area Panel Chairs, and some smaller boards.

--
JGH

Originally posted by Tony
I have a sneaky feeeling that the allowance won't look that great as an hourly rate. :suspect:

Nobody would want public representatives to be out of pocket and their expences should of course be covered but IMO offering what is actually a salary is making the job of councillor more of a career rather than a civic calling.

Originally posted by Mo
Nobody would want public representatives to be out of pocket and their expences should of course be covered but IMO offering what is actually a salary is making the job of councillor more of a career rather than a civic calling.
You could say that about any public sector job.
How dare teachers/nurses/firefighters/doctors/etc demand a living wage? They should do it for the civic pride of serving the public and b*****s to paying the mortgage. ...?

This council are all about self interest and nothing more,I have attended council meetings and what you will see is councillors reading the Times or Guardian while impotant debates are taking place.
They are so smug and complacent and who can blame them when they dont get any real opposition in the chambers
But like the saying says you get the goverment youdeserve and until people vote for something different then it will stay the same.
Smug,out of touch =SHEFFIELD COUNCIL.

Originally posted by royjames
This council are all about self interest and nothing more, I have attended council meetings and what you will see is councillors reading the Times or Guardian while impotant debates are taking place.

Oh, I agree. Under the Cabinet & Scrutiny system pushed onto councils by the Labour Government, Full Council is a useless waste of time, and when the Government gets around to forcing councils to have executive mayors, an even more useless and greater waste of time, but Full Council is only 2% of the job.