I have and always be a huge rugby fan, having playied and stoped playing through injury. I now follow it greatly.

I also also always had a big big hate of football. I had the whole culture and world of football.

Yesterday afternoon made me one of the happiest men in England. I didn't bother watching the match, but heard the score. And i had a huge grin on my face. Eventhou i would like to see England succeed in everything. I think it is time for England not to qualify for the EURO championships, to give the FA and the clubs some realisation that football and the players "aren't all that"

I saw a picture (i forget which news paper) this week of Ashley cole being carried off like a baby by Robinson and a medic. Crying like a little baby, a fully grown man. Being carried off like a little baby infront of 80,000 fans and an audience of 5 million

Don't you find that embarassing?
For what?
Damage to his ankle or liagament strain (no rip) in other words a spained ankle!

Is it just me, or has English football hit an all time low?
It also made me happy to hear in the office this morning, all the football fans saying that the England players are all over paid and didn;t even try last night........
Sounds about true....

But yet with the England Rugby team in the Semi-Finals of the World Cup were still 5 pages into the paper and not on the front/back.

Now that they are in the Final are they on the front/back.......
Am i missing something here?

Am i missing something here?

The something you're missing is that people only give a monkeys about rugby once every four years, whereas football is always in the news.

I don't begrudge rugby fans their day in the sun, but it's really only a minority sport which over 90% of countries in the world don't even play. Whereas football is universal......

Agree adbout football players being overpaid, perhaps if footballers showed a fraction of the passion for the game that rugby players show, they might do better than they do.

i can understand you not wanting to watch it

but it's a bit sad that you actually want england to lose

I am a big Football fan but i am getting more and more Disillusioned with teh English National Team they are such a gutless passionless set of idiots.

And to be honest with you now i couldn't care less whether we Qualify or not for the Euro championship maybe if we don't qualify that would give the overpaid useless prima donnas a very much needed kick up the backside.

If Greece can win them what does that say about our team eh??:rant:

The sad fact is that international football is not the priority for players these days. Not qualifying for EURO 08 won't make any difference to them, except give them a nice long holiday next summer.

yep im an England fan and I have to say they are total crap! such top players and so mediocre performances. One o t lads at work said it. Just watch em sing the national anthem .......they dont. they probably dont even know the words.they have no passion and no pride. Come saturday the England boys will blast it out proud to be representing England ....Come on you lads! Give em hell!

Watched England over the years all over Europe including trips to Poland,Holland,Italy,Germany,Spain,Belgium,Greece, Israel,Tunisia,Denmark.....to name a few.
Used to travel with some mates and can quite honestly say that i now could'nt care less weather the National team wins,draws or loses.
Sat and watched the game yesterday and although we had enough chances to win the game,i could'nt help but notice just how some players are just not good enough to play at the top level.The media build some players up so much it's ridiculous.

The wages are obscene (although you can't blame the players for taking them).......ticket prices are a joke......and you run the risk of getting your head kicked in (30 English fans attacked outside an underground station in Moscow last night ...2 mates of mine in the group attacked............had a text message eary today).

My club side has had its problems over the past few years.....but give me the 'honesty' of league 1 any day of the week...........

Football in general (i believe) is on the decline........

When people like me and the lads i used to travel with stop watching the national team something is seriously wrong somewhere.

what does that say about our team eh??

that mclown wants firing

The something you're missing is that people only give a monkeys about rugby once every four years, whereas football is always in the news.

I don't begrudge rugby fans their day in the sun, but it's really only a minority sport which over 90% of countries in the world don't even play. Whereas football is universal......

What about the Zurich premiership?
The 6 Nations?
The autumn tests?

These happen every year, its just becuase the media hyps up football thats all. You'd be surprised how much of a following rugby has..

And yes the World cup is once every for years.
But for an Enlish team to be in the semi-finals ans be 6 pages into the sports paper is ridiculous......

When the English football team reaching a quarter final is a novelty..

A few weeks ago even the likes of John Inverdale was turning against the England RU team, calling them tedious as well as ineffectual. Shops were taking the shirts into the warehouse. They have turned it round and fair play to them, but people can be very fickle.

RU has nothing to complain about in terms of the coverage it gets in comparison to Rugby League, which has higher club crowds and higher club TV viewing figures (I admit RU has higher international crowds) yet even club RU gets much more publicity (and TV money for fewer viewers) than club RL. The Grand Final at Old Trafford had a crowd of 71,000 last week and was confined to the odd column in the papers.

I watch both Rugbys and am sick of football, but Union fans should count themselves lucky.

I have and always be a huge rugby fan, having playied and stoped playing through injury. I now follow it greatly.

I also also always had a big big hate of football. I had the whole culture and world of football.

Yesterday afternoon made me one of the happiest men in England. I didn't bother watching the match, but heard the score. And i had a huge grin on my face. Eventhou i would like to see England succeed in everything. I think it is time for England not to qualify for the EURO championships, to give the FA and the clubs some realisation that football and the players "aren't all that"

I saw a picture (i forget which news paper) this week of Ashley cole being carried off like a baby by Robinson and a medic. Crying like a little baby, a fully grown man. Being carried off like a little baby infront of 80,000 fans and an audience of 5 million

Don't you find that embarassing?
For what?
Damage to his ankle or liagament strain (no rip) in other words a spained ankle!

Is it just me, or has English football hit an all time low?
It also made me happy to hear in the office this morning, all the football fans saying that the England players are all over paid and didn;t even try last night........
Sounds about true....

But yet with the England Rugby team in the Semi-Finals of the World Cup were still 5 pages into the paper and not on the front/back.

Now that they are in the Final are they on the front/back.......
Am i missing something here?

Yes you are missing something.

The England Rugby team could win every tournament they enter for the next centruy and it still wont be as quarter as popular as football.

I'll tell you what I loved. The fact that more people turned up to watch England play Estonia in the qualifiers than England V France in the Rugby semi finals.

Football is the only global idiom apart from science my friend. Rugby is a sad also ran.

When the English football team reaching a quarter final is a novelty..

Even though England reached the quarter finals in the last 3 international major competitions.

I am a big Football fan but i am getting more and more Disillusioned with teh English National Team they are such a gutless passionless set of idiots.


I gotta agree with this :D

I gotta agree with this :D

Ah look, a little lady trying to talk about football. Isn't that sweet? ;)

Ah look, a little lady trying to talk about football. Isn't that sweet? ;)

Don't you start - I get that line at home - Only far more abusive ......However, I like to involve myself in threads I know Naff all about .....more interesting reading :hihi:

I used to be into football years ago, but as the game became more money obsessed and the players started becoming overpaid premadonas I decided to turn my back on it and follow a sport that is played with far more passion, where the players have honour and aren't spoilt so and so's. That's why I follow Rugby Union now... much better in my opinion.

Don't you start - I get that line at home - Only far more abusive ......However, I like to involve myself in threads I know Naff all about .....more interesting reading :hihi:
oi havent you got any housework to do? let the men deal with our football team:hihi::hihi:

I used to be into football years ago, but as the game became more money obsessed and the players started becoming overpaid premadonas I decided to turn my back on it and follow a sport that is played with far more passion, where the players have honour and aren't spoilt so and so's. That's why I follow Rugby Union now... much better in my opinion.

Turncoat.....

oi havent you got any housework to do? let the men deal with our football team:hihi::hihi:

:( Yup ....*grabs hoover and walks to the tunnel to get changed* :(

Even though England reached the quarter finals in the last 3 international major competitions.


I'm sorry, did you get any further than that?
Thought not! :)

Maybe i should have said semi's my apologies

I'm sorry, did you get any further than that?
Thought not! :)

Maybe i should have said semi's my apologies

What a ridiculous comparison. How can the quality of the Football world cup / Euro Championships be compared to the Rugby World Cup?

Considering there are only about ten nations in the World who actually take Rugby seriously, it would be a disgrace if England DIDN'T progress in each torunament.

I'm with you Kieran_grund. Been a Wasps fan since the 80s when a lady membership cost £10 for the season. Come from a family of egg catchers and my son plays the game. The only real shame is that only one secondary in Sheffield played Rugby Union in 2003 (Meadowhead) and only one or two more since. Its a pity Sheffield does not really have a great Rugby Union club. Tigers is on the up granted but Abbeydale is a very strange set up.

Yeah, been watching Rugby now for ages and love it.... as a fan, I'm trusted to drink alcohol whilst watching a game and also allowed to be seated or stand next to opposition supporters without anything kicking off.

Should get down and see my local team, Rotherham Titans more often.

What a ridiculous comparison. How can the quality of the Football world cup / Euro Championships be compared to the Rugby World Cup?

Considering there are only about ten nations in the World who actually take Rugby seriously, it would be a disgrace if England DIDN'T progress in each torunament.

Oh im sorry so the England team do take football seriously??!!

They must be sh*tter that i thought, i just thought they were joking around.....

I wonder if this thread would have come about it

a) England had been knocked out in the quater finals of the RWC

b) England had beaten Russia last night.

Fickle nonsense if you ask me.

Oh im sorry so the England team do take football seriously??!!

They must be sh*tter that i thought, i just thought they were joking around.....

England are in the RWCF but for the Grace of God. They were diabolical in the qualifiers, rubbish in the pre-tournament friendlies, and a disgrace in the six nations.

How soon one forgets when glories are but 80 minutes away.

What about the Zurich premiership?
The 6 Nations?
The autumn tests?

These happen every year, its just becuase the media hyps up football thats all. You'd be surprised how much of a following rugby has..

Actaully, we wouldn't be surprised at all by the fact that the Zurich Premiership attracts crowds of mostly under ten thosuand, and is watched on television by a vanishingly small percentage of the viewing public.

You might be, but we won't.

I've been watching England and singing the praises of Rugby Union long before we had any success... I think it was about 12 years ago now when I made the switch between football and rugby.

I'm sorry, did you get any further than that?
Thought not! :)

Maybe i should have said semi's my apologies


Number of serious rugby-playing countries: ten, if that.

Number of serious football-playing countries: about seventy.


Percentage chance of your arguments having any worth whatsoever: rather less than nothing.

But yet the RFU have completely changed there structure to make a change, and its paid off. We won the world cup, the RFU changed, it didn't work.
March this year (Straight after the 6 Nations) It changed again, and now its worked

Where as football is still living in 1966........ and all that ****e.....

Anway, this has turned into a rugby/football debate:
The OP refered to the state of english football..... Peronaly i think its in a state

If you dont'.... fair enough, you waste you money at games....
I'll stay happy with success, cheaper tickets, happier atmospheres and the fact that people don't think i'm a chav.

But yet the RFU have completely changed there structure to make a change, and its paid off. We won the world cup, the RFU changed, it didn't work.
March this year (Straight after the 6 Nations) It changed again, and now its worked

Where as football is still living in 1966........ and all that ****e.....

Now this I do agree with. The sooner we lose the ghost of 66, and put those free lunch merchants out to pasture, the better.

That aside, are you not prepared to accept that whilst you may prefer the game of Rugby, it is only as fractionally as popular as football? One might add it’s also a bit disingenuous to talk about how great and widely supported the game is two days before a World Cup final.

Anway, this has turned into a rugby/football debate:
The OP refered to the state of english football

No it didn't.

The OP basically said 'Rugby is great, football is crap - agree in no less than two hundred words'

Is it just me, or has English football hit an all time low?

And there seem to be no mention i me saying the rugby is great, just stating that wen they were in the semi's, they still no hardly any media coverage...

Come back when u've got a GCSE

And there seem to be no mention i me saying the rugby is great, just stating that wen they were in the semi's, they still no hardly any media coverage...

Come back when u've got a GCSE

This seems to be slightly at odds with what you wrote here, in your first post:

I have and always wil be a huge rugby fan. I also always had a big big hate of football. I hate the whole culture and world of football.

Hardly a balanced opening appraisal. I fear you are talking somewhat out of your rear passage.

Oh, and I do have a GSCE my friend. Several in fact. Plus a degree, and an MSc in, wait for the Ironic twist, the Sociology of sport - Origins, meanings and interpretations.

Then you will understand that Rugby was formed on an ethos of a charater building through public schools in the early 1800's, it was also used to promote leadership and and allowed man to "vent off there steam" in a controlled manner.

A much better way a child should be brought up.
I do blame this Chave, thug culture on football.... Hence me hate for it.....
Don't worry its nothing personal :)

I'm sure you will be used to this quote as well, which is still used to show the difference between the 2 sports:

Rugby is a thugs game played by gentlemen. Football is a gentleman's game played by thugs.

And thats the way it will alwaus be.
I too have a degree within sport, and have had to study the history of it.
But come on....
Don't you think its time the FA completely re-structured itself and the way it assures good players afre coming through the ranks?

Can't believe the OP is complaining about the amount of coverage Rugby Union gets...its always had far far too much media coverage when compared to the amount of people who are interested.

Obviously a result of it being such a middle class (middle and upper middle-class that is its not even liked by the lower middle class in general...thats significant in why its so poorly attended) thing played at public schools and therfore also an interest of the people who run the media.
The average working class/lower middle class person in England couldnt give a toss about Rugby Union as was so evident when when the actual final was on last time around you could go in an estate pub and if it was even being shown there was hardly anyone even watching it...I know because I was in one...


And as for England being "so successful" at it well that's hardly much of an achievement is it. Lets have a look at the opposition

Wales, Scotland, Ireland ...add them all together and theyd total not much more than the population of London (and in all except Wales the preserve of the "elite".

New Zealand population a couple of million
Australia...once again not very populous and about their 4th most popular team sport

South Africa...just played by a few of their whites

France....finally a genuine opposition...well there had to be one

the rest of the entrants...with the exception of Argentina (maybe) I doubt those country's average citizen even knows theyve got a team

England winning the Rugby World Cup is probably equivalent in achievement to the England Football team qualifying for the World Cup Finals (in a not particularly hard group)

Bless your little cotton sock.......
Educate yourself in sport and not football and you would understand so much more.

Yes, i went to Public school
I come from a huge footballing family, none of them bother to watch the football.

I watched the 2003 final in walkabout in Birmingham, i qued with supporters from about 6am in the morning. a good 70% wearing english football shirts, and they were welcomed with open arms. Maybe the "Estate Pubs" refused to show it, so they headed somewhere else to see it!

I can't help being middle to upper class, so don't get bitter about it! :)

Can't believe the OP is complaining about the amount of coverage Rugby Union gets...its always had far far too much media coverage when compared to the amount of people who are interested.

Obviously a result of it being such a middle class (middle and upper middle-class that is its not even liked by the lower middle class in general...thats significant in why its so poorly attended) thing played at public schools and therfore also an interest of the people who run the media.
The average working class/lower middle class person in England couldnt give a toss about Rugby Union as was so evident when when the actual final was on last time around you could go in an estate pub and if it was even being shown there was hardly anyone even watching it...I know because I was in one...


And as for England being "so successful" at it well that's hardly much of an achievement is it. Lets have a look at the opposition

Wales, Scotland, Ireland ...add them all together and theyd total not much more than the population of London (and in all except Wales the preserve of the "elite".

New Zealand population a couple of million
Australia...once again not very populous and about their 4th most popular team sport

South Africa...just played by a few of their whites

France....finally a genuine opposition...well there had to be one

the rest of the entrants...with the exception of Argentina (maybe) I doubt those country's average citizen even knows theyve got a team

England winning the Rugby World Cup is probably equivalent in achievement to the England Football team qualifying for the World Cup Finals (in a not particularly hard group)

I can't help but notice some of the comments you have made are somewhat naive to say the least. Some of those teams you have dismissed as being lesser opposition are in fact some of the top teams in the world :loopy:

Furthermore, I am from a strong working class area yet RU is played at amateur level around these parts and the pubs during the world cup games have been particularly busy.

Guess you need to learn a thing or two about the game before you start having a go. Oh, and rugby is a huge sport in Oz... try telling my rellies it's the 4th popular sport and they would laugh at you.

Simple FACT ......Football is THE game of the working class masses
NOT rugby.......so if we dont quailify for Euro Finals, the Country will be in the doldrums from November right through to next September. If Wilkinson & Co win their next little Game......the vast majority won't give a flying fig!!!!!

Just like to point out that Rugby League is traditionally a working class game and should not be lumped in with Rugby Union on the class issue. I would also like to point out that Rugby League has had a World Cup since 1954, and Union since 1987, yet Union insists on calling theirs "the Rugby World Cup".

Can't believe the OP is complaining about the amount of coverage Rugby Union gets...its always had far far too much media coverage when compared to the amount of people who are interested.

Obviously a result of it being such a middle class (middle and upper middle-class that is its not even liked by the lower middle class in general...thats significant in why its so poorly attended) thing played at public schools and therfore also an interest of the people who run the media.
The average working class/lower middle class person in England couldnt give a toss about Rugby Union as was so evident when when the actual final was on last time around you could go in an estate pub and if it was even being shown there was hardly anyone even watching it...I know because I was in one...


And as for England being "so successful" at it well that's hardly much of an achievement is it. Lets have a look at the opposition

Wales, Scotland, Ireland ...add them all together and theyd total not much more than the population of London (and in all except Wales the preserve of the "elite".

New Zealand population a couple of million
Australia...once again not very populous and about their 4th most popular team sport

South Africa...just played by a few of their whites

France....finally a genuine opposition...well there had to be one

the rest of the entrants...with the exception of Argentina (maybe) I doubt those country's average citizen even knows theyve got a team

England winning the Rugby World Cup is probably equivalent in achievement to the England Football team qualifying for the World Cup Finals (in a not particularly hard group)


So because india isn't very good at football does that make them crap at cricket?
What a stupid comment........

Yes League is as working class as football.
Even though im a Union man, i watch league (i don't really understand it) but it is good fun to watch. Im with you on that one.....

Simple FACT ......Football is THE game of the working class masses
NOT rugby.......so if we dont quailify for Euro Finals, the Country will be in the doldrums from November right through to next September. If Wilkinson & Co win their next little Game......the vast majority won't give a flying fig!!!!!


FACT = Footbalers are overpaid, and couldn't careless about club or country
FACT = The supports portray a bad name, and can't be tursted
FACT = English Football is at an all time low

all three of those 'facts' are untrue

Overpaid....Where demand far out strips supply in any working enviroment, wages are at a premium.
Supporters....There will always be a mindless few who give the rest a bad name
All time low............Never, remember Graham Taylor....if so why will there be crowd's of
around 750,000 watching football this w/e
One Question how many 'World Class R.U teams' are there?

One Question how many 'World Class R.U teams' are there?

A few... not seen them playing during the world cup? :huh:

Football is dying on it's arse. Anyone with half a brain can see that. I have been going to watch Manchester United week in week out since I was 5 years old. Home and away matches. My dad has been going since the early 1960's.

Neither of us bother anymore. Even the most talentless players are getting paid ridiculous amounts. Stewards and police are over the top arseholes. Ticket prices are astronomical and the clubs couldn't give a **** about the fans.

I was absolutely thrilled that England got beat yesterday. Hopefully heads will roll amongs them corrups old f*ckwits at the FA. They're like councillors. On ridiculous wages for doing precisely nothing.

So, come on England rugby (Yes, I'm about as working class as you can get) and come on Russia. Lets give these overpaid knobs something to think about whilst sunning themselves for 2 months in Barbados next summer :loopy:

I can't help but notice some of the comments you have made are somewhat naive to say the least. Some of those teams you have dismissed as being lesser opposition are in fact some of the top teams in the world :loopy:

Furthermore, I am from a strong working class area yet RU is played at amateur level around these parts and the pubs during the world cup games have been particularly busy.

Guess you need to learn a thing or two about the game before you start having a go. Oh, and rugby is a huge sport in Oz... try telling my rellies it's the 4th popular sport and they would laugh at you.

And you want to learn to argue logically before you start typing...

tell me which teams i dismissed as lesser opposition are the top teams in the world (and of course that Rugby Union world is very small)...its the fact that so few countries play it that almost certainly means that a few white non-Boer South Africans and a tiny country like New Zealand can continually stay at the top

yes and theres working class fans of Last Night At the Proms but dont try to tell me that that features as a big interest of the average lower class person. Where I was a pub in Armley Leeds no-one was giving a toss but obviously where you were a few watched it. Probably a result of the ex-public school types who run the media continually ramming it down there throats ie "you will like it"

finally ill think youre find Rugby League, Cricket and Aussie Rules football are all bigger than Rugby Union in Australia...just google it

why bother trying to be clever when you miss the point in every way?

Just like to point out that Rugby League is traditionally a working class game and should not be lumped in with Rugby Union on the class issue. I would also like to point out that Rugby League has had a World Cup since 1954, and Union since 1987, yet Union insists on calling theirs "the Rugby World Cup".

couldnt agree with you more...Rugby League is at least genuinely popular in the North of England...and as someone who's spent time in the south east unless you're some hooray Henry type noone gives a toss for Rugby Union down there too...

yes and theres working class fans of Last Night At the Proms but dont try to tell me that that features as a big interest of the average lower class person. Where I was a pub in Armley Leeds no-one was giving a toss but obviously where you were a few watched it. Probably a result of the ex-public school types who run the media continually ramming it down there throats ie "you will like it"



Why don't you remove that chip from your shoulder, you might actually relax and like RU :)

ankle ligiments can be as worse as a broken bone sumtimes, so i can understand why A cole was crying! its nothing like a sprain ankle, i myself did all my ankle ligiments in my right ankle, i had a pot on for over 6 weeks, i now need a op! ive since turned the op down coz it may stop me playing football !! i know that sounds abit daft!!

my point is a ankle sprain would take a few weeks! Now ligiments could take months to heal and even then it would be very weak!!

I have and always be a huge rugby fan, having playied and stoped playing through injury. I now follow it greatly.

I also also always had a big big hate of football. I had the whole culture and world of football.

Yesterday afternoon made me one of the happiest men in England. I didn't bother watching the match, but heard the score. And i had a huge grin on my face. Eventhou i would like to see England succeed in everything. I think it is time for England not to qualify for the EURO championships, to give the FA and the clubs some realisation that football and the players "aren't all that"

I saw a picture (i forget which news paper) this week of Ashley cole being carried off like a baby by Robinson and a medic. Crying like a little baby, a fully grown man. Being carried off like a little baby infront of 80,000 fans and an audience of 5 million

Don't you find that embarassing?
For what?
Damage to his ankle or liagament strain (no rip) in other words a spained ankle!

Is it just me, or has English football hit an all time low?
It also made me happy to hear in the office this morning, all the football fans saying that the England players are all over paid and didn;t even try last night........
Sounds about true....

But yet with the England Rugby team in the Semi-Finals of the World Cup were still 5 pages into the paper and not on the front/back.

Now that they are in the Final are they on the front/back.......
Am i missing something here?

hmmm, where shall i start here.

Firstly how can you tell what a mans pain thresh hold is.
Has Ashley Cole ever gone off like a big hard man. Doubt it. Have you heard of ligament damage, that could be the cause and if you knew sport very well, you will know that Footballers get more injuries than rugby players because of mainly the more acute injuries that can occur.
I've played rugby and i have played football and football has more injuries than rugby period.
Personally I hate watching rugby but I have found facination with the world cup, not because we are in the finals but because of the quality of play.
As for English football. It deteriotated years ago. More emphasis needs to be thrown in at the grass roots of English football. The whole scouting system is pathetic. I could assemble a team from Endcliffe park to damage SWFC. (im serious)
It says it all when Wenger states that his main scouts are in Africa because the people there live and breathe football and the hunger for success is far greater, than the kids here.
From school there needs to be more connection with the local clubs and the community to enable better soccer schools and opportunities for youngsters. The local clubs do not scout sunday league sides or even saturday non league sides thorough enough.
So I for one was not surprised we lost because we simply are not good enough and our star players on big salaries are over hyped.

Cant Believe that ANY true blooded English man would actually SMILE!!! because an English team lost,whatever the sport
I dont have a clue about Rugby but watched the last World cup final in the pub and was decked out in the Union Jack and will be this Saturday too
Just cos you dont enjoy a particular sport doesnt mean you shouldnt support them as a national team.
I Guarantee i wont be smiling if we.....WE!!! lose on Saturday
Your a disgrace Grund

Cant Believe that ANY true blooded English man would actually SMILE!!! because an English team lost,whatever the sport
I dont have a clue about Rugby but watched the last World cup final in the pub and was decked out in the Union Jack and will be this Saturday too
Just cos you dont enjoy a particular sport doesnt mean you shouldnt support them as a national team.
I Guarantee i wont be smiling if we.....WE!!! lose on Saturday
Your a disgrace Grund

I bet you if England played Brazil, there would be lot of English people supporting Brazil simply because they play brilliant football. What do you class as true blooded. My dad was proper Jamaican but had the strongest yorkshire accent out there and went to the matches.
I am all for supporting the national team, as I was at the pub on wednesday but its not that we lost, we lost playing badly. The media have there favourites and I am sick of the over hype. Gerrard and Owen for starters. In fairness Owen is not the same anymore due to injuries and as for hero turned villain Rooney. Yet again he got caught trying to foul. When will he learn. Only players who played wednesday on our side were Campbell and Richards. Ones retired and ones a junior, how ironic.

How the Hell can one be retired if he played???
Campbell never retired from International football,he was just dropped from the squad.
Agree though that they were the only 2 who could be proud of themselves Wednesday Night.
Lampard turns into a pub player when he wears white
Gerrard is struggling at International and Club level
Robinson is just a big joke,no way is he better than James or Carson
Lescott is a bloody good centre back NOT a full back
Rooney IS trying to curb his temperament,but if you take it all away from him he will just be an average player
Owen is a fantastic Centre Forward,just obviously not 100% fit and due to injuries has lost some of his pace

And whatever people say about bean-pole Crouchy he offers something totally different to a team,is nearly impossible to handle due to his size and is very VERY skillfull with the ball at his feet.He shouldve been given a lot more time on the pitch Wednesday night

Even though bean pole Crouch is player, he crap regardless. 18 matches for Lfc before he could get a goal. Granted he did get form but had he been anyone else he would have been dropped. My question to you is would Crouch get in the French national side or Holland. I doubt he would even make the 22 squad. Which speaks volumes for the standard of the English national side.
The famous quotation is "he has such a great touch for a big man"
He should have a good touch because he is an international professional footballer and Maraddonna, Claude Makelele and Roberto Carlos prove that size means naff all in football. Its what you can do with it that counts.
Before you start going on about Crouch being good in the air, he is probably the worst player in the premiership in the air. He can not jump and when he does he has no balance and fouls to get up. thats coming from a die hard Lfc fan that watch matches.

DJ do u close your eyes when u watch football???
Firstly i never said nothing about Crouch being good in the air,you just assumed i would because of his height,i actually stated that he is very skillful with the ball at his feet!!!,never mentioned nothing about his heading ability.
And you spelt Maradonna wrong!

I've been watching England and singing the praises of Rugby Union long before we had any success... I think it was about 12 years ago now when I made the switch between football and rugby.

Didn't England make the final of the rugby world cup in 1991?