Ok then, you want to get in early to the next area to feel the warm hand of regeneration, investment, improvement and of course, cheap housing soon to be more expensive housing.

Where will you go and why?

Thye city centre. If I could afford to buy one of those flats I would. The city centre will make a comeback.

Mark my words

Originally posted by Sam Miguel
Thye city centre. If I could afford to buy one of those flats I would. The city centre will make a comeback.

Mark my words


a comeback? Last time I looked it was overpriced and over-hyped. Has that changed?

Originally posted by sham71
a comeback? Last time I looked it was overpriced and over-hyped. Has that changed?

No not really but I dying to see peoples faces when city centre living fizzles out :)

HILLSBOROUGH!! House prices have sky rocketed there in the last 12 months, it is now classed as a "desirable residental surburb" instead of a " popular area". Might to be too late to cash in round there now, but there may be some bargains left. Apparently the "image" of HILLS has all changed...no longer the litter strewn yobbo ridden ****hole of the 80's, this is now being marketed by estate agents (whol ive in a world of their own) as "desirable....up and coming.....trendy" etc..must be something I missed there then.....

The area between West Street and Shalesmoor i reckon. It has already got a load of investment planned for it.

Netherthorpe - there are lots of plans for the area. It is close to the trams, city centre and university, I don't think it will be long before it is redeveloped and desirable as its more popular neighbouring areas.

(Not that I am saying it is not desirable at the moment - I lived there for a few months)

Kelham Island, West bar & Scotland Street

Actually, I don't know why I made that statement. I would opt to buy property in the west of the city.


Originally posted by sham71
a comeback? Last time I looked it was overpriced and over-hyped. Has that changed?

Aye, Hillsborough does appear to heading that way, give it a few years and it'll be a thriving posh area, just as soon as the get rid of all the pork shops. I never did understand why hillsborough has so many.
Also I reckon buy a place in pitsmoor, with the expansion of posh housing near the riverside, Pitsmoor can only go uphill :P

Have to say my area at netherthorpe is going to be the place top be in a few yrs, the plans they have for the area will give it a real des res feel to it.
We are already close to the city so if you want to get on the housing market better do it now.

Originally posted by royjames
Have to say my area at netherthorpe is going to be the place top be in a few yrs, the plans they have for the area will give it a real des res feel to it.
We are already close to the city so if you want to get on the housing market better do it now.

whats happening in netherthorpe?...thought all the area had been rebuilt already

No they have plans to redevolop the area near the dual carriage way,and apparently they want to build some private appartments also.
Some other proposals are also on the table so if this all comes off then it shoul'd be a really nice area to live in,mind you it already is as far as im concerned.:thumbsup:

I think Heeley and Meersbrook as they are near to town and there is a good range of different types of houses available, not everyone wants a luxury bedsit.

As far as I can see, only areas with (currently) a lot of council-owned land/property or open space can possibly be seen as the next up and coming areas.

The problem with Heeley and Meersbrook is that there is a lot of privately-owned (and rented) property and there is no way that landlords are going to spend money that they don't have to.

Netherthorpe I can see as it falls into the category mentioned in the first paragraph.

Hillsborough I can also understand.

The Wicker is supposedly the next hot thing. I suppose it will have a knock-on effect from Shalesmoor. Both are potentially good locations, near to town, near trams and buses and near the A57, Sheffield Interchange, train station and even Victoria Quays.

Once the inner ring road is complete then I seriously believe the Wicker will be a desirable location for 'the young professional'. I've heard this from a property developer of some repute.

Originally posted by Clumber
As far as I can see, only areas with (currently) a lot of council-owned land/property or open space can possibly be seen as the next up and coming areas.

The problem with Heeley and Meersbrook is that there is a lot of privately-owned (and rented) property and there is no way that landlords are going to spend money that they don't have to.

Netherthorpe I can see as it falls into the category mentioned in the first paragraph.

Hillsborough I can also understand.

I don't understand that especially the landlord bit.

Originally posted by nick2
I don't understand that especially the landlord bit.

In order for an area to improve, there has to be substantial investment and what landlord is going to spend unnecessary money on a property when they already have a portfolio of occupied properties? They're going to spend the minimum necessary to keep their properties in an inhabitable state but no more.

Originally posted by Clumber
In order for an area to improve, there has to be substantial investment and what landlord is going to spend unnecessary money on a property when they already have a portfolio of occupied properties? They're going to spend the minimum necessary to keep their properties in an inhabitable state but no more.

I don't think areas need to "improve" before they become the next up and coming area, Notting Hill and Brixton have improved (or not, depending on your point of view) because they became popular, not the other way round.

Pitsmoor, I think, because it's central and has old large Victorian houses which can be converted into flats. The Wicker dito, spillover from the riverside developments.

look at my location to see, what is in my opinion an up and coming area. I moved here in march, i am 5 minutes from the M1 ,there is a new school just built, new housing, Industry is investing with a new re-generation plan, new roads etc.
It still has preserved its village life, but has had to move on.

Before i moved here it was a mining community that like all others in Yorkshire felt the full force of Maggie.

obviously theres lots of new developments yet to start all over the place, but the areas which are likely to be the next for regeneration will be both to the north and south of west street, ie the traingle between fitzwilliam street, west street and charter row, and the area between west street and the kelham island area.

Tho theres still plenty of confirmed regen yet to start ie. the New Retail Quarter.

Originally posted by aNTAcid
Aye, Hillsborough does appear to heading that way, give it a few years and it'll be a thriving posh area, just as soon as the get rid of all the pork shops. I never did understand why hillsborough has so many.
Also I reckon buy a place in pitsmoor, with the expansion of posh housing near the riverside, Pitsmoor can only go uphill :P

two words Kevin Pressman....

Isn't "up and coming area" just an estate agent's euphemism for "run down and cheap"?

Depends what you want from the property you are buying aswell. Everybody wants to see an increase in the price (when they own one!).

For example, Burngreave has seen a steady increase in the amount of people wanting to rent, or share a house. This means that there are a number of properties that I am personally aware of that have been converted into double bedroom flats which are letting for around £300-£330 per flat (usually 2 within each house).

Again, it comes down to what you want from the place you buy.

I think people have overlooked the need for living for people who are working, and single, but dont need to be in the city centre. There is a good demand for that, and thats the fire thats being fueled in these areas by the landlords.

Originally posted by t020
Isn't "up and coming area" just an estate agent's euphemism for "run down and cheap"?

Not really. I give you Devonshire Green as an example.

Yes, it was run down and cheap. It's not now.

Originally posted by Tony
Not really. I give you Devonshire Green as an example.

Yes, it was run down and cheap. It's not now.

Good example, especially the Headford Mews Area, who would have thought a 1 bed flat there would be breaking the £90k barrier?

You never know it could be the parts of the cross they just knocked down to redevelop. It could go the same way as Norfolk Park went??? You never know!!

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW
Everybody wants to see an increase in the price (when they own one!).


I don't, I couldn't care less.

I remain equivocal about Hillsborough. It may be nothing like as scruffy as it was 12 years ago when I first moved to Sheffield, but it's got a long way to go before it is the "Covent Garden" or "Greenwich Village"-type area which a ridiculous article in the Telegraph recently claimed it was becoming.

Just because an estate agent claims somewhere is "up and coming" doesn't mean it's desirable. Lots of your so-called "professionals" started buying houses in Hillsborough and Lower Walkley 5-6 years ago, as we did - not because we wanted to, especially, but because we were fed up with bidding inflated prices over the asking price for bog-standard terraces in Crookes and Crosspool.

Hillsborough actually trounces Crookes in the much-vaunted areas of transport to the University and hospitals (the tram's quicker than the 52 any day) and it has a good park and library. There's actually very little difference in quality between Hillsborough and Crookes; the only main one is that Crookes is in the catchment for "desirable" schools and Lower Walkley/ Hillsborough is in the catchment for (mainly) Myers Grove and Chaucer, which are presumably "undesirable". And also that more middle-class people live in Crookes, which is just a result of self-fulfilling prophecy really.

It's just a shame other aspects let Hillsborough down. It's dirty and just looks uncared-for. The Corner has been boarded up for about two years now. The site of Greenwoods (The Man's Shop!) is still unoccupied and there are lots of really cheap'n'nasty shops alongside the good ones. That place opposite Huttons which was going to be some sort of phone shop appeared to get its glass kicked in and just vanished. On Friday and Saturday nights the atmosphere is grim and can be quite threatening, especially post-football.

I'd go along with those who say Meersbrook and even Pitsmoor/Fir Vale as possible up-and-coming areas.

I know Sheffields changed a lot, but isn't Stannington a lovely area still ? it's away from everything yet close enough not to feel too far away from town, it has lovely little shops therea and a couple a nice post offices, all you realy need if you don't have a car.

Originally posted by Tony
Not really. I give you Devonshire Green as an example.

Yes, it was run down and cheap. It's not now.

Yes but there can only ever be so many "up and coming areas". If every area actually became "up" it would be unsustainable.

Originally posted by nick2
I don't, I couldn't care less.


Strange attitude for someone with such a hefty mortgage (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=193716#post193716). :D

I wonder if anyone could assist us with something that has been puzzling us for a while ?
Why would anyone buy property on or near the Wards brewery site
Why would anyone wish to buy any property in what is one of the most depressed area of the city centre ie near the Wicker and the markets, near an area thats renown for drugs and prostitution with no shops or pubs nearby.
Are we missing something

Originally posted by Mickyboy
I wonder if anyone could assist us with something that has been puzzling us for a while ?
Why would anyone buy property on or near the Wards brewery site
Why would anyone wish to buy any property in what is one of the most depressed area of the city centre ie near the Wicker and the markets, near an area thats renown for drugs and prostitution with no shops or pubs nearby.
Are we missing something


Some Estate Agents, like Blundells, try to pass off the location of these flats as being Ecclesall. :shocked:

It's not near the Wicker particularly either though.....

Originally posted by Mickyboy
I wonder if anyone could assist us with something that has been puzzling us for a while ?
Why would anyone buy property on or near the Wards brewery site
Why would anyone wish to buy any property in what is one of the most depressed area of the city centre ie near the Wicker and the markets, near an area thats renown for drugs and prostitution with no shops or pubs nearby.
Are we missing something

I think he's thinking of Whitbreads Brewery and the developments down on West Bar, etc...

Originally posted by BoroughGal
I think he's thinking of Whitbreads Brewery and the developments down on West Bar, etc...

Yes, the ones near Waitrose with the big empty restaurant unit under them are in Ecclesall.

Originally posted by nick2
Yes, the ones near Waitrose with the big empty restaurant unit under them are in Ecclesall.

Well, they're not, but we won't get into that AGAIN.

Originally posted by t020
Well, they're not, but we won't get into that AGAIN.

I know they're not, but i knew you wouldn't let that pass by :)

Originally posted by nick2
I know they're not, but i knew you wouldn't let that pass by :)

Cheeky. :hihi:

Apologies all round.
We can understand why people would buy near Wards Brewery Ecclesall Road etc.

What I did mean was Whitbreads Ladys Bridge.

Getting my breweries muxed ip !!!!!!!

Maybe because its close to the city centre, law courts etc

I suppose then if nobody wanted to live there, the new development on West Bar (next to Sytners) is going to be a sales disaster :rolleyes:

Following up on the original post, you really have to establish the buoyancy of the market. A property will only be worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. IMHO, and it is purely my opinion, the reason that Sheffield is one of the remaining UK locations still currently experiencing a healthy housing market, is largely due to the growing student necessity coupled with the urban regeneration project.

In a few years time - Sheffield will be considered a 'buzz word' amongst students. The regeneration projects will inevitably improve the overall living quality within the city as well as the aesthetics. In turn, Sheffield will attract new business to the area.
Businesses require skilled employees, and a large proportion of these will be churned out through the 2 universities. This will improve the desirability of the city for future students.

Next, take the student accommodation issue. If you establish a niche within a market - you target the core consumers! In Sheffield's case - there seems to be a distinct lack of quality accommodation in Sheffield for students. The major developed have jumped on the idea - with solutions such as Victoria Halls etc. For others, parents buy into a second accommodation for their kids to essentially live rent free throughout uni, while the other student tenants cover the cost of the mortgage through rental. This is where I believe the growth market will continue to be, for the short term. However, once new developments such as The Forge have absorbed the excess SHU student accommodation demand-the market will dry up!

Therefore, to answer the post LOL, I would advise you to look to buy into a property predominantly in the S10 and S11 areas (W and SW of City Centre) as if you are looking to make a mid-term income, you won't go wrong with renting out a quality property to students in this area.
If you are looking to buy for yourself-the same areas are advantageous (as long as you don't mind a concentration of students). With effective bus routes, ample local shopping facilities, traditional housing, and close proximaty to city centre-its ideal.
As we dont know where the housing market is heading, S10 and S11 are safe areas as semi-rural semi-urban, and could bring a good return on sale-best of both worlds!!
BEST OF LUCK IN SEARCHING, HOPE IT HELPS!!

**PS buy property at top of a hill-less damp!!**

i dont know owt abart all that but i just made 30k in two years on a terrace in hillsborough.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chalicefc3
[B]
Therefore, to answer the post LOL, I would advise you to look to buy into a property predominantly in the S10 and S11 areas (W and SW of City Centre) as if you are looking to make a mid-term income, you won't go wrong with renting out a quality property to students in this area.



This is hardly an 'up and coming...' Prices in these areas are very expensive and unless there is a hefty cash deposit to put down there is no way outgoings would be covered, or even near. Nevermind the loan to value question. Yes, capital growth may be possible over the long term but that wasn't the question.

I agree with Misterseven, although profits such as his are not possible in the present market there are still some bargains to be had in Hillsborough. Some 3/4 bed houses for around 90 to 110k are still available. Decorate and furnish from Ikea, advertise on the Forum plus other free internet sites, be a diligent landlord and it should do nicely.

I own a flat in Wadsley Park Village and I have lots of requests for it. There is a healthy demand for Hillsborough area due in no small way to the supertram links.

I think the tram has been responsible for improving a lot of the areas it goes through by making them more accessable from the city centre and so more desirable, Norfolk Park, Hillsborough, Manor etc. It's getting to be a bit like tube stations in London where people will chose one house over another because it is near a station.

If the tram was extended to other far-flung parts of the city I think they would be the next area buyers would go for. So once we know where the tram extensions will be going thats where you should buy ?

Clearly Crookes is too dear for most sane people and the housing is no better than what you get for half the price nearby (eg in Hillsbro/Lwr Walkley). Up and coming means 'cheap but going up in price' not 'dear and getting even dearer'. Lower S6 is still good value for most first time buyers - the area is still improving and has the infrastructure in place, plus some bigger houses. You can moan about Hillsbro centre but it's the only proper mini-town centre in Sheff. Woodseats could be another one but can't really expand beause of its traffic nightmare.

Upperthorpe/Netherthorpe should do well soon as still has some good housing, close to Crookes/Walkley, plus new 24hr Tesco, tram, Kelham etc. But still a bit scary round there sometimes.

The tram goes beyond Meadowhall to Rotherham next (if it goes anywhere). So maybe in terms of amount of money to be made from investment in cheap housing, then a terrace there could be the area. Easy access to M1 too. It's not Sheff though of course.

Similarly, the tram already goes through Attercliffe which some are touting as the next 'in' place. But it's got a long way to go - do you want to live next to strip clubs and share your tram home from work every day with all the Meadowhall-bound kids shouting and mucking about?

Originally posted by DannyBoy
I remain equivocal about Hillsborough. It may be nothing like as scruffy as it was 12 years ago when I first moved to Sheffield, but it's got a long way to go before it is the "Covent Garden" or "Greenwich Village"-type area which a ridiculous article in the Telegraph recently claimed it was becoming.


Agree completely. The new tendy coffeee shop which has recently opened by the tram stop is always empty...the clientele for expensive americanos and capacinnos really doesn't live in Hillsborough.

As regards to the proliferation of pork pie shops (and places selling tripe for that matter), this just about portrays the majority of the local population, who, (and no disrepect to any HILLS residents) are still very much tripe eating fag smoking clothe cap brigade pound shop Wilkinsons type "traditional" old school Sheffielders from the local area and who travel down to shop from the North Sheffield Council Estates. They dont want sophisticated shops and fancy prices, cocktail bars and luxury coffee houses.....

And why not? Its such a change from Broomhill....

Are there realy pork pie shops in Hillsborough ?

Originally posted by goldenfleece
Agree completely. The new tendy coffeee shop which has recently opened by the tram stop is always empty...the clientele for expensive americanos and capacinnos really doesn't live in Hillsborough.


So is there no point in opening coffee bars outside of Ecc Rd and Broomhill then? Besides, they do a nice tripe 'n' pork ciabatta in there now, so watch it go.

Originally posted by nick2
Are there realy pork pie shops in Hillsborough ?

Why, are you tempted Nick? :gag:

Originally posted by t020
Why, are you tempted Nick? :gag:

Yes, I love pork pie. They do realy good ones at Chatsworth farm shop, but it's a long way to go for a pie.

Originally posted by goldenfleece
Agree completely. The new tendy coffeee shop which has recently opened by the tram stop is always empty...the clientele for expensive americanos and capacinnos really doesn't live in Hillsborough.



I have seen Jalucy pretty busy, especially at weekends, and its target clientele is obviously not the people you mention coming down from the estates, but rather professionals getting on and off the tram, who might like the odd cappuccino...

Originally posted by Bilge
Clearly Crookes is too dear for most sane people and the housing is no better than what you get for half the price nearby (eg in Hillsbro/Lwr Walkley).

Crookes has just gone ridiculously high in price. In 1994 a bog-standard terrace in Crookes was about £50,000; they can go for four times that price now.

As you say, the housing stock and the facilities in Lower Walkley and Hillsborough are no better - it's all perception, shored up by the reputation of slightly better schools.

But many first time buyers don't give a monkey's about schools, so that attraction of Crookes (if it is one) is irrelevant. Either they're not intending to have kids just yet, or not intending to have them at all. Second house purchase is more likely to be a school-catchment related one. Narrow terraces with steep stairs probably not ideal for many families these days anyway.

The comparison for first-time buyer houses are the city centre flats - usually less space and dearer. School-catchment usually not an issue in flats either, because you move out if/when you get/want kids.

Originally posted by Bilge
But many first time buyers don't give a monkey's about schools, so that attraction of Crookes (if it is one) is irrelevant.

True, some buyers are unconcerned about school catchments. But I would disagree with you that this makes it irrelevant.

Even if one element of the house or area is irrelevant to an individual buyer, it's still an element which will always be factored into the price and will feature in the agent's blurb. "Reputable local schools" - you see it in the Property Guide all the time. if you buy a house in Crookes, Crosspool, Ranmoor or anywhere else in a good catchment area, you're paying for the kudos of the school - whether you are aware of it or not and whether you plan to use it or not.

In any case, there *are* a lot of families with young children in Crookes, contrary to what you say.

And I've had it from the horse's mouth (a senior valuer at Saxton Mee in Crookes) that schools are the one factor most responsible for pushing up house prices in certain areas in this city, Crookes included.

People don't just move out if and when they want kids - it isn't always convenient or financially viable. We moved to Lower Walkley in 1999 not knowing it was in the catchment for Myers Grove, and we had children in 2000 and 2003. It took us 2 years of buying the Property Guide every week before we finally got out of that house!

Obviously the school-catchment nonsense is the main factor driving the housing market for everyone, whether you've got kids or not.

I was just making the point that you needn't let it drive your own house-hunting if you're not going to use those schools in the short-term. If you still want to live in those areas you have to bear in mind that you're competing with people who are desperate to live there because of the schools, and pay the market price for that.

a little mentioned fact is now that the child boom has passed, there is less demand on school places. In years to come, schools will be fighting to get children in rather than the other way round.

This will reduce the importance of catchment areas as parents will have more choice.

But don't expect an estate agent to tell you this........

Having just bought a house in Crookes, I agree that there is an undisputed fact that the reason that hose prices are so high in Crookes is due to King Edward V11 school being an excellent diverse school and whether you agree or not, that is the single most important factor to most people who have kids of that age.

We are moving as my son has been travelling for 2 years on 4 buses a day from meersbrook to get there and I cannot wait to move in.
It has got to be better than all that travelling and I will secure aplace also for my daughter.
That is the only reason that we are moving

Originally posted by sham71
a little mentioned fact is now that the child boom has passed, there is less demand on school places. In years to come, schools will be fighting to get children in rather than the other way round.

This will reduce the importance of catchment areas as parents will have more choice.

But don't expect an estate agent to tell you this........

Yes, estate agents will tell you whatever they like; they will say anything that will sell houses. They lie every day - it's a part of the job.

There is no "child boom" which has "passed"; birth rates fluctuate across the years. "Choice", though, is a myth. Schools choose pupils, not the other way round.

In 2000, births were expected to be given a boost with lots of Millennium Babies being born, but actually I believe the rate was slightly down on previous years. (This hasn't benefited my daughter, a Year 2000 baby; we can't get her into our local school and she has to do a ridiculous bus jorney with me every morning. This is thanks to the Government's patently ridiculous capping of school places at Key Stage One, and the LEA's failure to apply discretion in our exceptional case - in contravention of DfES guidelines).

Ever since league tables, a school's reputation has been a major factor in the pricing of houses. It's not going to go away.

anywhere near northern general hospital

Originally posted by DannyBoy


There is no "child boom" which has "passed"; birth rates fluctuate across the years.





Not true. At the present time there are far fewer children coming into education due to the lowering birthrate. Looking at general trends, people are choosing to settle down with a partner later and have fewer children. This is evident in all nursery/infant schools in the city.

Catchment areas will not be so important because there will be more places. Having said that, if an area is popular it will probably stay so but prices will not be driven so much by schools.

Schools do not choose pupils unless you are talking private schools DannyBoy. There is a very strict code of practise that schools have to adhere to that take into account catchment, catchment school, siblings already attending and special needs/cicumstances.

hi.
what are the netherthorpe high rise flats like?

Worst area - what about Shalesmoor? I friend from out of town told me that she thought it was an awful place.

best area? Milhouses has a lot going for it. Its leafy, near Eccleshall woods, near a nice park, near a really good school, near two large supermarkets, and its handy for town also (being only about 3 miles out - i.e. nearer than Totley or Dore). Its also handy for the Peak district.

Originally posted by vision
Schools do not choose pupils unless you are talking private schools DannyBoy. There is a very strict code of practise that schools have to adhere to that take into account catchment, catchment school, siblings already attending and special needs/cicumstances.

Don't lecture me, please. We have been through School Appeal Hell these past few months, and I'm *not* in the mood.

In theory you ought to be right, but in practice you are wrong.

Yes, there is a hierarchy of circumstances including the ones you cite - special needs, siblings, feeder school, catchment address - but in this city you need to be pretty devious to get the school you want.

My point was that "parental choice" is entirely a myth - created by the previous Conservative government and adopted wholesale by New Labour. It doesn't exist. The LEA distributes places, and all it has to prove is that there are places "available", regardless of whether these are in a catchment the parents would be happy with. This Government has put a cap on class sizes for 5/6/7-year-olds at 30 pupils, with no regard for what might happen if there are actually 31 or 32 pupils of that age in the catchment who all want a place. This cannot exist alongside the notion of "choice".