Following on from this item (http://www.thisissheffield.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=920174) in The Star, how do you view the situation?

Personally I believe that staff should be able to show patients who are agressive and abusive the door.

I can't think of another profession who would put up with being spat at, swore at, punched and worse.

Why don't they just refuse to see these people? Surely even the Hipocratic Oath draws a line here?

teachers, maybe?

I agree that people should not have to treat violent people. They should be made to pay for medical treatment if they can't respect the staff. It's sad that people seem to think they can treat other people like that, makes me wonder how they were brought up?

Unfortunately I am sure it would be made 'aquwark' for the staff to refuse.

Some family members can get very angry and abusive, my friend a nurse in a nursing home and the staff are trained to avoid blocking their exit out of a room when talking to family members, in other words the nurse themselves should be closest to the exit room door, shame when it comes to this, isn't it ?

Of course a lot of this problem is linked to drinking and this is also something that needs to be looked at.
I find those who abuse the doctors and nurses to be the lowest of the low and they dont deserve any sympathy.
One way to get the message across woul'd be to those who inflict violence on the staff to be refused treatment,might make them think .

I would have thought they wouldn't hesistate to call the Police if there was any threat.

Originally posted by royjames
Of course a lot of this problem is linked to drinking and this is also something that needs to be looked at.

Problem is - it isn't :mad:

Originally posted by Lickszz
I would have thought they wouldn't hesistate to call the Police if there was any threat.

I take it that you don't believe the medical profession then?

IMO it is not the medical staffs job to calm violent and abusive patients down. They shouldn't have to put up with it in the first place. As soon as someone is exercising this behaviour then it should be a Police matter.

The Hospital staff have got enough on.

I've been in the hospital at the weekend on several occasions and witnessed drunken and disorderly behaviour. I can recall 2 occasions where the Police were there promptly and escorted the persons out of the hospital and to the Police station.

Legalise chloroform! (Again)

Or pump cannabis through the air conditioning vents :hihi:

(Perhaps I'm tired?)

Originally posted by Lickszz
I've been in the hospital at the weekend on several occasions and witnessed drunken and disorderly behaviour. I can recall 2 occasions where the Police were there promptly and escorted the persons out of the hospital and to the Police station.

Is that what really happens though. Person(s) have presented at A&E cause a rumpus. Police called,escort drunkard away. Drunkard dies in cell after banging head/swallowing vomit/any number of possibilities.

No in these days of litigation and I have my rights but sod my responsibilities they'l be seen to and a damn sight quicker than any law abiding citizen sat there waiting their turn.

I notice most staff in an ER just have their first names only on their name badges, some nurses even refuse to wear one.

Originally posted by Mo
No in these days of litigation and I have my rights but sod my responsibilities they'l be seen to and a damn sight quicker than any law abiding citizen sat there waiting their turn.

Remember when the teacher used to say 'Sit still and fold your arms'? The stillest, quietest, best behaved got to be first!

Them were t' days :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Mo
Is that what really happens though. Person(s) have presented at A&E cause a rumpus. Police called,escort drunkard away. Drunkard dies in cell after banging head/swallowing vomit/any number of possibilities.

No in these days of litigation and I have my rights but sod my responsibilities they'l be seen to and a damn sight quicker than any law abiding citizen sat there waiting their turn.
Well, you would have thought so but on one occasion a person who was been abusive to nurses and threatening and I think caused some criminal damage within the hospital. The person had a badly gashed hand which was leaking lots of blood. The Police arrived arrested him and took him away, he had several friends with him who were arguing with the Police that he required treatment and had not received any yet. It didn't make a difference (which surprised me). He was carted off and his friends were told to button it or they would be joining him.

As I'm married to someone who works within the NHS I can assure that they meet all types and the scary thing is they have to deal with it as best they can! .They are trained to care for people, not for unarmed combat. Problems can arise not just from drink on the casualty side of things but also from people suffering from illness or drugs. Various ilnesses can make people dillusional and aggressive and not everybody who is like this is admitted into specialist units. Hospital staff do an important and sometimes tough job and no one can deny that.
The rewards are great but not in the monetary kind and their dedications, good humour and determination never ceases to amaze me. :wave:

My personal views on violence toward staff in the A&E, is that anyone displaying that sort of behaviour should be automatically bumped DOWN to the back of the queue...

As a former nurse, I don't think any kind of violence towards the A&E staff is acceptable.

I also think that the drunkards and druggies who have inflicted the damage/ illness/ injuries on themselves ought to be bumped down to the bottom of the list, too.

and these "joy" riders, who smash themselves up in car crashed and police chases..?

They should not recieve treatment, unless they pay for every last penny of it! (god! I have really got my reactionary head on tonight! dons tinfoil hat, and waits for the barrage of flak she is sure she'll recieve) i think it ought to be a case of "Ah, right! So.. you've broken your leg, crashing this stolen vehicle? Hmm, and why , precisely ought we to treat you?"

" No, no, let your broken leg set badly, and hopefully it will prevent you from ever getting behind the wheel again,:- a permanent reminder of why you should not help yourself to a car that doesn't belong to you. Why should we waste precious NHS resources, on wastrels., and saddoes like yourself?

PT

I worked for just over 5 years in A/E in nursing.
I could write a book - maybe I will one day?

The first post grad course they sent me on...?
Was it Basic Life Support?
Tauma?
Recognising ECG?

nah!

'Violence & Aggression'! - learning how to de-escalate & defend!
Learned lots of good 'moves' which, thankfully I never needed to use.
Luckily for me, at 17stone & 5'9" I was not the type that the chavs would have a go at. I did get 'verbal' abuse daily.:loopy:
A couple of the smaller, older women copped for a battering from time to time.

The Police were very good when we called them.
:thumbsup:

I too work for the nhs- 7 years on special care baby unit and now in the community. People come into contact with us front line workers for variety of reasons and mostly involving highly emotive issues. Whilst this is no excuse for being violent it contributes to understanding why some people may act out of character when coming into contact with nhs staff. Alot of my work currently involves dealing with child protection and often in the perpetrators own home, I spend most of my working day in fear because if i say something objectionable in someone's own home, I am alone and cannot call for security. We only have mobiles 1 to a base and there may be four of us at a base therfore I have to use my own mobile and don't get reimbursed for the call. I might start wearing combat gear to work!

Originally posted by Plain Talker
My personal views on violence toward staff in the A&E, is that anyone displaying that sort of behaviour should be automatically bumped DOWN to the back of the queue...

As a former nurse, I don't think any kind of violence towards the A&E staff is acceptable.

I also think that the drunkards and druggies who have inflicted the damage/ illness/ injuries on themselves ought to be bumped down to the bottom of the list, too.

and these "joy" riders, who smash themselves up in car crashed and police chases..?

They should not recieve treatment, unless they pay for every last penny of it! (god! I have really got my reactionary head on tonight! dons tinfoil hat, and waits for the barrage of flak she is sure she'll recieve) i think it ought to be a case of "Ah, right! So.. you've broken your leg, crashing this stolen vehicle? Hmm, and why , precisely ought we to treat you?"

" No, no, let your broken leg set badly, and hopefully it will prevent you from ever getting behind the wheel again,:- a permanent reminder of why you should not help yourself to a car that doesn't belong to you. Why should we waste precious NHS resources, on wastrels., and saddoes like yourself?

PT WOW !!! and i agree with every word of it,they should be struck off the nhs patients list

Its unfornately a common occurence in every area of nursing now.
As a student nurse i remember waking up in A & E having been belted round the back of my head with a lucozade bottle, by a psychiatric patients' relative.
Since then, have had tea thrown in my face, grabbed by the throat in a lift, arm wrestled to the floor by a tiny wee old man who then attempted to throttle me, and a young woman punch me in the face just for removing an intravenous drip dressing from her arm (it was well stuck down!).
aah, the joys of nursing.

;)

A friend of mine, a nurse was fired last year for saving someones life !

The nursing home resident got very ill in the middle of the night, my friend the nurse on a new shift called emergency for the para medics and took her to hospital, not knowing the woman was wearing a DNR bracelet (Do Not Resesetate) and was fired the next day for not following instructions by not reading the womans chart before changing shifts.

AH the perils of non communication. No excuse for not having an adequate handover at the change of shift i'm afraid. Not saying she should have been sacked, sounds a bit harsh to me, a warning would have sufficed, however if as nurses we don't communicate between shifts and someone recieves the wrong treatment/drugs/non treatment and dies as a result we are indeed responsible and accountable for our actions.:|

In light of the recent announcement of hospitals in Leeds having a permanent police presence on the wards - I was just wondering what everyone thought about this issue.

Excellent idea. Pity we cant have one as a permanent fixture on every street. I would far rather have Big Brother than Little Scum!:hihi:

In light of the recent announcement of hospitals in Leeds having a permanent police presence on the wards - I was just wondering what everyone thought about this issue.

Isn't that proof of what a nasty, viscious and barbaric country we have become, that this is now 'normal'? When are we going to start breeding civilized human beings? :(

Isn't that proof of what a nasty, viscious and barbaric country we have become, that this is now 'normal'? When are we going to start breeding civilized human beings? :(
I believe I have bred 3 - just need a few more !

I believe I have bred 3 - just need a few more !

Sorry - I didn't mean it as an across the board generalisation. I just think we have a high proportion and tolerance for atrocious and abusive parenting that creates out of control monsters with no self-discipline or emotional intelligence. I know there are lots of splendid specimens really. :)

I've not read all the posts.
But this week I over heard a dr telling a couple of nurses off for being desrespectful of an aggressive in patient. All I know is the patient (a young man) had a serious head injury after being involved in a car accident that made him violent & aggressive to the point where they had to have security permanantly on the ward. The dr told them it wasn't his fault.
I am not agreeing with violent or aggressive patients but there are 2 sides to most stories.

Hospital security at point of entry. A team of big well built no-nonsense guards would be good.

I think that most should be invested in Security for NHS staff, CCTV and Security Guards. I know the Goverment has implemented tougher penalties for people assualting/abusing staff - rightly so.
Im a Police Officer and Im used to this behaviour, but Im equipped to deal with it and wouldnt take it. Why should hospital staff when there trying to help the individual!!

I was a nurse manager for a long time and have been threatened many times, although never ( thank god) physically abused.

The problem I see is that some scum just dont respect nurses, they expect great care, tv, phone, access, information 24 hours a day, posh food,

Should people in more "dangerous" positions have an increase in salary?

I've not read all the posts.
But this week I over heard a dr telling a couple of nurses off for being desrespectful of an aggressive in patient. All I know is the patient (a young man) had a serious head injury after being involved in a car accident that made him violent & aggressive to the point where they had to have security permanantly on the ward. The dr told them it wasn't his fault.
I am not agreeing with violent or aggressive patients but there are 2 sides to most stories.
With respect , I think this is a totally different issue. Vilence towards nursing staff from patients who are confused and inappropriate due to head injury, stoke, dememtia and a whole host of other medical problems has always been a part of the working lives of nursing and medical staff and any true professional will understand this and treat the patient with the respect they deserve. I think the issue here is violence towards NHS staff by patients and relatives for no other reason than that they can - a 'soft' target if you like. I have been attacked by said people on more than a few occasions and it IS getting worse.

Hey I am not disagreeing with anyone, don't forget I work in hospital.
I am just saying that nursing staff were very rude to this patiernt in question when he had no idea what he was doing.
I see a lot & keep my mouth shut.
Regarding the patients who are down right aggressive due to alcohol or drugs or just for the hell of it should be refused treatment. I am often spoke to rudely & aggressive, so I walk away & refuse to have any more to do with the patient, it is their loss but I'm not giving them any kind of treatment.

I once saw an A & E nurse,knocked out by a drunk.She was "out for the count", I know what I would have done with him. :rant:

there are security guards permanently on call at the Hallamshire, Jessop wing and Charles Clifford .......unfortunately only two on shift at once! It would take both to physically tackle anyone who is violent which leaves very little chance of help for anyone unfortunate enough to be involved in a second incident.

there are security guards permanently on call at the Hallamshire, Jessop wing and Charles Clifford .......unfortunately only two on shift at once! It would take both to physically tackle anyone who is violent which leaves very little chance of help for anyone unfortunate enough to be involved in a second incident.
There are at the Northern General, but unlike the Hallamshire which is just one large building - the NGH is like a small town with many buildings and corners where people can hide - and yet the security it provdes is totally inadequate ! No fault of the security staff but of the 'management' who are not willing to finance more security staff and resources .

People sometimes act extremely out of character and difficultly when they are not well.

Should people in more "dangerous" positions have an increase in salary?


Yes please!!! :thumbsup:

People sometimes act extremely out of character and difficultly when they are not well.
I am well aware of this - have been in the job for over 20 years and have got the t shirt ! What I am concerned with is the mindless violence dished out by a minority of the public to nurses for no other reason than they consider us to be 'soft targets ' . People can be understood { but not excused ) for behaving in an aggressive way if they are unwell or worried about a loved one . Violence is never excusable !