I am want to know how much it would cost to run a forum, similair to this. Not exact figures, but just a rough guide.

I am not thinking of opening one in competition BTW :) I am happy letting others do the hard work on here..lol

Well you could go here:

http://makephpbb.com/

and in less than a minute (http://www.makephpbb.com/phpbb/new_forum.php) set one up for nowt.

Nomme

Originally posted by nomme
Well you could go here:

http://makephpbb.com/

and in less than a minute (http://www.makephpbb.com/phpbb/new_forum.php) set one up for nowt.

Nomme

I don't want to set one up nomme, all I want is to know the costs of setting it up & running one.

If you wanted to use the same software as here....

Well, the vBulletin software is about $160 to buy, of $85 for a year's 'lease'. So let's say £100 for the software.

Then there's the time spent in modifying it away from the 'base build', and actually installing it. You might expect to pay a programmer anywhere between £15 and £30 an hour for that.

Then you have monthly hosting - let's be generous and say £50.00 / month to give you lots of bandwidth and space and backups.

And then there's the time taken to moderate and maintain the system - if people are volunteering then it's not an actual 'cash' cost but it can be if you take time off of work to do teh modding and maintainence when needed.

Of course, there are free options that allow you to put a foot in the water - I use something called phpBB on a couple of sites I run, but it's not as powerful.

Joe

Php is free. Webspace is £3 a month. Sorted.

Originally posted by Mooseyb
Php is free. Webspace is £3 a month. Sorted.

Indeed, but it does depend upon number of users. I've not tried phpBB on a site as busy as this one, although on teh sites I have used it on it's scaled reasonably well.

owdlad did say 'a forum, similar to this'. So I assumed by similar he meant commensurate in terms of size / activity.

Joe

One of the forums I use regularly has over 2000 users on PHP and is fine. Check out Derren Brown's forum (www.derrenbrownforum.com) - that has loads of users and no problems. Webspace that I use is £2.50 a month with lots of free space and bandwidth - www.dataflame.co.uk.

Have a look at MSN Groups - its very similar to this although not quite as polished!!

And its free!!

Originally posted by Mooseyb
One of the forums I use regularly has over 2000 users on PHP and is fine. Check out Derren Brown's forum (www.derrenbrownforum.com) - that has loads of users and no problems. Webspace that I use is £2.50 a month with lots of free space and bandwidth - www.dataflame.co.uk.

'on PHP' - I assume you mean on phpBB?

The monthly figures for space and bandwidth are probably over the top a little, but basically I'm happier paying more to get the support, backup and uptime.

This site here is also a very active one - not sure about the other ones you mention. Numbers of suers isn't necessarily teh issue about scaling - it's numbers of postings and frequency of postings that usually causes problems.

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
'on PHP' - I assume you mean on phpBB?

The monthly figures for space and bandwidth are probably over the top a little, but basically I'm happier paying more to get the support, backup and uptime.

This site here is also a very active one - not sure about the other ones you mention. Numbers of suers isn't necessarily teh issue about scaling - it's numbers of postings and frequency of postings that usually causes problems.

Joe

Yep phpBB - same thing. Well technically php is an extension, but hey lets not get technical :)

The forum I mention is so active its actually quite scary. In all honesty, and nothing against this forum, but the Derren Brown one is much more active than this one. I also prefer the layout of phpBB (I feel a ban coming on!! ;) ) I can think of loads that are on phpBB as well. I use it personally, and its so easy to set up.

As for my web hosting - Dataflame have always been excellent for me. Plenty of space, 24/7 support, good bandwidth, free stuff, and Ive never ever had a problem with reliability.

While Im praising companies - pipex broadband. Simply the best. :)

Originally posted by Mooseyb
Yep phpBB - same thing. Well technically php is an extension, but hey lets not get technical :)



Not quite - PHP is a server-side development scripting language that is used to write software such as phpBB and vBulletin.

I have to be technical...I'm a geek...:)

Joe

Thanks guys. The one I am interested in only has around 30 messages per day tops, there is a chat room attached to it, and only around 2000 members.

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Not quite - PHP is a server-side development scripting language that is used to write software such as phpBB and vBulletin.

I have to be technical...I'm a geek...:)

Joe

Im saying nothing. ;)

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Not quite - PHP is a server-side development scripting language that is used to write software such as phpBB and vBulletin.

I have to be technical...I'm a geek...:)

Joe

I thought you were from Warsop?........OH Geek, not Greek :rolleyes:

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Not quite - PHP is a server-side development scripting language that is used to write software such as phpBB and vBulletin.

I have to be technical...I'm a geek...:)

Joe

I was thinking the same thing, does that make me a geek too :suspect:

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Then you have monthly hosting - let's be generous and say £50.00 / month to give you lots of bandwidth and space and backups.

Surely Shef forum does not pay that much monthly. I don't believe it can consume that much bandwidth, after all there are no pictures/avatars being uploaded. If it is I presume it isn't on a shared hosting package.


Originally posted by MooseyB
Webspace that I use is £2.50 a month with lots of free space and bandwidth - www.dataflame.co.uk.

Sounds far too cheap too me. Do you host a forum using that, as it wasn't clear from your post.

Also remember with the current exchange rate, US hosts can offer a better deal than the UK hosts. It all depends on what you want, and if you will be needed support over the telephone or are happy with a ticket system.

PhPBB is a good forum to start with it is free, it isn't as advanced as VB but their are many hacks out there for it.

Originally posted by owdlad
Thanks guys. The one I am interested in only has around 30 messages per day tops, there is a chat room attached to it, and only around 2000 members.

Have a look at

http://www.kualo.co.uk and
http://www.xilo.net

Avoid hosts like this http://www.streamline.net. There is no such thing as unlimited bandwidth (you always suffer on the instantaneous data transfer/bandwidth as a result), also they are resellers.

They threw the Geeks out of Warsop, owdlad! I was on the last bus out!

Skatiechik, you're only a geek if you want to be. I have chosen to embrace my inner geek! :)

Originally posted by Skatiechik
Sounds far too cheap too me. Do you host a forum using that, as it wasn't clear from your post.


I do indeed. Its 500mb webspace and 20gb traffic per month, with database access, and everything else I needed. They even installed the phpBB for me in one click of a button. It is very cheap I agree. Ive been very happy with them.

costs of a forum really depend on your hosting company and what software you want to use. I use PNphpBB and PHPBB for forums I run and they handle the numbers quite easily.

Postnuke is a good community system to use and fairly easy to install as is the PHPbb boards on both systems.

I have two different hosts - valuehost which charges something like £100 for two years hosting with large amounts of space and bandwidth and numerous database and greenmanhosting which is a pagan friend of mine, they have packages between £1.99 and £5.99 for a few gig of bandwidth and decent amount of space too.

Then you have you domain names if you can get one or want one.

As for how much time you put into it, obviously there are the setting up bits and then you can choose to have a moderated one like SF or like the one I run which has no moderators and allows the users to police themselves or face moi...they usually decide to police themselves BTW ;) :twisted:

Moon

Originally posted by JoePritchard
And then there's the time taken to moderate and maintain the system - if people are volunteering then it's not an actual 'cash' cost but it can be if you take time off of work to do teh modding and maintainence when needed.
This is ultimately going to be your biggest cost... Above all else you have to factor in things like...

Getting the word out will factor heavily initially and your costs will be pretty minimal...

What will cost you is when it gets bigger...

You will spend literally weeks working out what your policy will be regarding users actions on your forum. What's acceptable, what's not... And you will quite literally be villified by around a third of your community who are quite happy to freeload on your efforts and tell you how biased, cr*p and awful your forum is.

In short you'll not get a heck of a lot of thanks for it... so don't expect any...

This extends to your moderating team also... You have to be sure that they will follow your lead and direction on what is and isn't acceptable... that they are impartial and honest... and that you won't lose control of your system.

I could scare the bejezus out of you with some of the stories regardingly rogue volunteers and the sorts of people you will find making your life very difficult indeed. The worst ones being those who play within the rules.... just... play games with you the whole time and make you look like a fool.


Yes... I know, pretty picture isn't it... but that's based on running 3 seperate forums with far smaller numbers of members than you see on this one.

Originally posted by Martin_s
and tell you how biased, cr*p and awful your forum is.

you mean like this? (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=258818#post258818)

Originally posted by cgksheff
you mean like this? (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=258818#post258818)
Heh heh... yes, that's just for starters... Chances are that's someone who is already on this forum registered as someone else and who just wants to troll...

Oh yes... "Trolls"... look that one up... They're everywhere.

Originally posted by cgksheff
you mean like this? (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=258818#post258818)

Thats minor, there is a lot worse.

I find the all out troll attacks are the most amusing to deal with especially on the unmodded site....yes highly entertaining

Moon

Originally posted by Martin_s
You will spend literally weeks working out what your policy will be regarding users actions on your forum. What's acceptable, what's not... And you will quite literally be villified by around a third of your community who are quite happy to freeload on your efforts and tell you how biased, cr*p and awful your forum is.

In short you'll not get a heck of a lot of thanks for it... so don't expect any...

This extends to your moderating team also... You have to be sure that they will follow your lead and direction on what is and isn't acceptable... that they are impartial and honest... and that you won't lose control of your system.

Tell me about it :rant: , we are still having problems with a user we banned for being abusive to members consistently (I believe I mentioned it a while back). He has set up a alternative (supposedly better forum) and club. He keeps coming onto our forum trolling, causing arguments, etc and underhandly making out his forum to look better. Besides the fact he is bad mouthing us over every applicable area of the internet. Not to mention spamming our members through the private messaging system.

This has inturn sparked off an internal debate on how it should be dealt with, not easy as each moderator has their own opinions. It is proving very difficult to agree on a moderation policy followed by everyone.

Any advice would be appreciated via Pm Martin :) Also any news on the website ;)

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Not quite - PHP is a server-side development scripting language that is used to write software such as phpBB and vBulletin.
Joe


Actually, PHP is an interpreter;) (PreHypertextPreprocessor), that happens to be pretty good at outputting HTML.

It doesn't have to be implemented on a server.

Originally posted by sccsux
Actually, PHP is an interpreter;) (PreHypertextPreprocessor), that happens to be pretty good at outputting HTML.

It doesn't have to be implemented on a server.

I know...I run it on my PC at home as well as on a server.

I was trying to be slightly less techie than usual!

I'd still describe it as a server side scripting language, though - that describes what it does, not necessarily how it does it! ;)

Originally posted by Skatiechik
Thats minor, there is a lot worse.
Ok... story time... everyone sitting comfortably? ok... I'll begin.. ;)

Once upon a time there was a forum for a select group of community minded students who were all about doing something positive but who suffered from the usual student society politics as well as a whole slew of issues surrounding the way that all the experience walks out the door at graduation... So I started a forum site off my own back that would provide a moderated, pro-active and constructive forum and resource base for like-minded people.

Now, given that the remit was about people working together it was something of a surprise when one particular individual took upon themselves to declare that because I'd not discussed the idea with anyone and decided that it should be on an "if it work, it works" basis rather than committee it to death... that I was an evil dictatorial despot on a par with Mao Tse Tung or Hitler...

Riiiiight... so, they set about finding fault with every single moderation decision that I or the volunteer team made... He did so within the rules every single time... and played the politics game by providing useful information to the community as a whole. So, despite the fact that we were being harrassed, and abused at every turn, the community as a whole was benefitting so we allowed him to continue and slapped him every time he broke the rules... which he did frequently... Each time he would cry foul and lie about what he'd intended, said, etc...

We also took the line that any moderation decisions were not up for discussion and that any display of the why's, wherefores, or public response was unnecessary and would just drag the community into a quagmire of infighting... So people only every heard, bizarrely enough, his side of the story.

This continued for over 6 months in which time I nearly quit the whole project, had to deal with a number of less enlightened and single story followers trying some kind of coup and try to stave off all sorts of related problems caused by this individuals actions.

Needless to say, development and work that would assist the community pretty much ground to a halt from my end, so it was all just peachy...

Then one day the individual in question decided he would step a little too far over the line and as a result he was put on suspension for 24 hours... At this juncture he decided to leave the forum completely in a fit of matyr like pique.. and at the same time demanded that all his posts and information provided be expunged from the database...

We accepted his departure gracefully... (OK... I lie.. we almost threw a ruddy great party!!)... and declined his second request as the terms and conditions covered this eventuality. I'll be honest, his ideas and input had been very useful (hence the reason we'd allowed him to stay on for so long) so I was damned if I was going to let the community lose that because of a childish idiots stupidity.



Now, people barely remember who he is, what he did or understand what the problem was in the first place... but it's taken 3 very long years to get there... And I should note that this story doesn't even cover the half of it...

Scared?... don't be stupid... you should be terrified!!

Originally posted by Martin_s
We also took the line that any moderation decisions were not up for discussion and that any display of the why's, wherefores, or public response was unnecessary and would just drag the community into a quagmire of infighting... So people only every heard, bizarrely enough, his side of the story.


Similiar to what we are suffering now, we remove most posts which is from the troll in question and his ass-lickers (oops meant to say followers/troublemakers ;) ) or ban him again if he reveals his identity to avoid members of the forum getting caught up in the fighting. Unfortunately similiar to you, this person has very good technical advice so people are inclined to follow him around and believe what he says regardless of if it is technical or not.

So everywhere he goes at the moment he is labelling our forum as a bunch of saddos, who wear flat caps and are dull, our moderation is alos draconian apparently and his forum is so much better (regardless of the fact he edits posts or deletes posts at freewill)

We made a moderation decision to censor the word ********, as this was away of stopping the user PM members and spamming them without having a direct effect on our users. However unfortunatly he cleverly registered as a new user and asked a techinical question for which he had written a FAQ on his forum for. Cleverly someone else posted the link up trying to fool the swear filter. (Coincidently lots of helpful FAQs have now been written for his forum, if only he spent as much effort when he was a member of ours instead of whinging and abusing people)

Then what happened was all hell broke loose, as following our policy decision the post was edited to censor the word and an explanation given why. At which point loads of users from his site registered and blamed the forum for being draconian.

However the problem that resulted was that the moderator who edited the link (was only following policy) was slandered in the moderation section (hidden) by some of the other moderators. Some of the moderators wanted to apologise for editing the link. Whereas I was one of the other moderators who are of the opinion that the only people they want to apologise to are the people who we wished f'ked off and its not a great loss in the long term. A policy was made and it should be kept to and it was not up for discussion in public. Otherwise it would look like we were a walk over. After all there are always people trying to push the boundaries to see how far they can go.

Unfortunately the some of the other moderators do not see it that way and believe they should go for the softly softly approach.

Heh... this is turning into a "suggestions for surviving running a forum" isn't it... :)


The key thing with the moderation team is to have a set goal or rational that everything else can boil down too nice and easy...

From that you can pretty much go anywhere... but in terms of moderation disagreements the key thing when it comes to teamwork there is not that you all agree... but that all the mod team respect the input and opinion of each member.

Disagreements do spring up from time to time admittedly but like you said they do not belong in the public domain and frankly if someone on any of my mod teams decided to take anything like that public, they'd be dropped pretty quickly.

Such is life...



I wonder if anyone reading this thread is still seriously thinking about running a forum :suspect: :suspect: :loopy:

Originally posted by Martin_s
I wonder if anyone reading this thread is still seriously thinking about running a forum :suspect: :suspect: :loopy:
Erm, not now, no.

To pull this back towards the actual topic slightly, I was thinking of setting up a forum recently and after using several diferrent ones I settled on the Invision Power Board. Info is on their site (http://www.invisionboard.com) regarding costs of the software. They do free hosting too, I think.