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Hmm... She can hand you some papers but without the KC registration, there's no real proof that she's not just written them out with no truth.

You can always research the lines in the pedigree BUT that's only after you've got the pedigree.

Can I ask why you've chosen not to go KC reg'd when you clearly want a full pedigree dog? And why must the pedigree be 100% if you don't intend to breed/show? (Just out of curiosity - not being funny)

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Be very careful about saving money on the initial price. Non KC Registered pups often come from stock that's not been health tested and as labradors are prone to mobility problems, as they get older, you should buy a pup from health tested stock to reduce the risk of getting a pup that will cost you a fortune in vets bills when he gets older.

Saving money on the initial outlay really could end up costing you a lot in future.

If you're intent to get this pup whose pedigree may or may not be 100% as he's not KC registered, insist on seeing the relevant health test results (ask a lab person on here, I'm not entirely sure which tests should be done - I think it's hip, elbow and eye) before you buy - however, I'm not sure if unregistered stock can be tested so it's unlikely they have been.

As for not waiting, it's well worth the wait if you get the right pup out of it :)

It's just as Lotti says- I hope you are geting a good pup, I really do, but what sounds like a saving in the short run could easily end up costing you a helluva lot if the pup you have chosen ends up having health problems in the future - the breed is renowned for hip, eye and elbow problems, partially due to inherited defects (so dodgy stock ought not to be bred from) and partly because thye are prone to overweight and then suffer the health problems associated with obesity, including joint problems.

Because the breeder has chosen not to KC register, he or she could easily have simply mated their bitch (who may or may not be registered by the sounds of it) with someone else's dog down the street that happens to be a lab and may or may not have KC registration either. For all you know, the two dogs might already be related in some way- you'll only find out if you are given a copy of the pedigree when you buy the pup -and because there's no KC verification, you can't be certain the pup has been sired or born to the dogs recorded on that pedigree anyway.

I dont know for sure why so many people seem to want ot go into breeding but dont choose to register their own dogs or any pups produced, but my cynical streak tells me it is a cost cutting exercise carried out by people who want to make a bit (or a lot actually) of money, rather than any desire to become a serious breeder who cares about the health and welfare of their dogs and aims to produce good quality pups which will further improve the breed.

Another thing to consider: ask the breeder whether he or she shows their dogs or works them in any competitive field - if not, and they also dont KC register- what exactly are they breeding for because it sounds even more like it's just for the money (and let's face it, labs are the most highly bred breed in this country as it is).

I have 2 labradors, 1 is KC registered & 1 isnt. (We are breeding our KC registered bitch-With relevant health checks so I may be able to give you some advice)

We bought our golden labrador, Pippa, for £250. She isn't KC registered. When we saw the advert in the paper for 'pedigree labradors for £250' I knew something wasnt right as a pedigree lab wouldnt be so cheap! When we got their all the pups were kept outside and were covered in fleas and ticks. (As apposed to when we got our pedigree lab who had the perfect start in life and was a budle of energy and health when we first saw her.)

Pippa did come with a family history template (which you can download of internet) with all her history on it (and many names were kc registered). However she isnt KC registered. When I asked the oldish couple if she was KC they didnt seem to know what I meant.

I can tell the difference between my KC registered lab and my other one but not in a way that matters (well not to me anyway). The only difference between them is their body shape and the way they hold themselves (Molly is in propertion and the way she sits and everything you can tell she comes from a well breed line, where as Pippa is gangly and sits funny-very cute but not show material :)).

However, neither have had more health complaints than the other. If you arent bothered about showing then I wouldnt worry about it.

However Pippa wasn't healthy when we got her, her breeders had purely breed for the money and the mother had been breed that many times that her belly hung to the floor! Pippa was really poorly when we got her that we didnt know if she would make it, but she did and is now a healthy lab.

As for health checks, the main ones are eye & hip, the main one is hip to which you would be looking at anything below a 6-6. However I very much doubt an un-registered dog would have these health checks done. That would be a chance you would have to take if you wanted the dog.

Becareful of owners that breed without registering, however dont let it stop you.

If your golden lab breeder is in S5 then contact me as I may have some info.

hi i am a breeder of newfoundlands and st bernads i will second what as already been said have you tried www.epupz.co.uk there you will find breeders of labs it may help if you talk to a breeder of the breed you require all the breeders i know in my field will give you free good advice and for the little bit more you will pay for kc reg is well worth it all my dogs leave me vet checked and with a money back guarentee that you have been sold a good pup and any repitable breeder will do the same good luck in finding your new companion

and let's face it, labs are the most highly bred breed in this country as it is).

They were the most popular as named by the Kennel club in 2006. (based on the amount KC registered that year.)
Not everyone who breeds labs does it for the money. Im not breeding Molly to been shown or worked but I do have a waiting list :)

Is molly havin babies tattybear?

Bluesntwos wrote some useful advice you should read:
http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2438532&postcount=10
(yes I know, don't ask - it WAS bluesandtwos who wrote it)

if you're looking for a cheaper option for purchasing a pup - please consider contacting a breeder or the breed rescue society - they often have pups who didn't make the grade for showing (may just be skittish in that setting) or that people have had and decided they maybe weren't suitable as dog owners and have returned their pup. Always check that the 'breeder' you're purchasing from has a lifetime returns policy - it's the only way to ensure you're getting a pup from somebody who CARES about the dogs ;)

Is molly havin babies tattybear?

Hi, Not at the moment. We tried her during her last season but she didnt fall pregnant. We will try again in December. :)

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I have never had a pure breed but, if you are not 100% happy with the pup you are supposed to be getting then i'd say don't get it. Also £300 sounds rather a lot for a dog who's pedigree is only on the say so of the breeder!

Don't be put off getting a dog. A dog will be with you for many many many years, so making the right choice for you and your family from day one is important. Explain to the children, if they are old enough, the importance of choosing the right pup.

However, if you don't mind if the dog isn't full pedigree and it appears active, healthy and well cared for, then take the pup you have seen. Only you can decide whether this pup is right for you. Good luck :)

hiya iv p'md u x

Agree entirely with kittenta's post - but you're right, it's not as easy as it first looks.

I've had personal experience of breeders, being let down, and so on and I'd have to say if you're not sure you're happy with the situation, walk away.

Have you met both parents and assessed their temperaments? In your case, I think temperament is the most important thing (but I'd be wary of the hips too because of the future vet bills you could incur) and you should be able to see mother with the pups and she should be happy for you to pick her pups up and be friendly.

If the breeder won't let you see the mum with the pups - walk away.
If the mum isn't the type of dog you want to bring children up with - walk away.

If you're happy with the parents' temperaments and you are happy with the situation in which the pups have been brought up (ideally in the home so they are used to the usual household goings on) then does it really matter if the dog's not 100% pedigree?

I personally wouldn't risk having a pup who's parents have bad temperaments around kids so temperament is the most important thing and it may be worth asking how many litters the mum's had - as they shouldn't really be bred more than three times :)

They were the most popular as named by the Kennel club in 2006. (based on the amount KC registered that year.)
Not everyone who breeds labs does it for the money. Im not breeding Molly to been shown or worked but I do have a waiting list :)

I never suggested every breeder did it for the money - but I doubt that many UNREGISTERED dogs are bred for the right reasons (if the parents are both KC, why on earth NOT register any pups, would be the obvious question I would ask a breeder who chose not to register) -and there is no question that Labs are still very popular dogs to be bred, I am well aware they feature at hte top of the breed register and as you explained in your post above, an unregistered dog or bitch is unlikely to have undergone all the usual health checks before breeding and your own experience with Pippa shows what you can end up getting from a 'breeder' who hasnt got a clue (they didnt understand when you asked about KC registration and the pups were crawling with fleas, for example).

If it were me buying another doberman, or any other full breed, I would want to be absolutely sure the pup I got came from good lines and healthy stock and good temperament- and I would not touch an unregistered purebred dog with a barge pole, unless I was considering a rescue or crossbreed.

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your own experience with Pippa shows what you can end up getting from a 'breeder' who hasnt got a clue (they didnt understand when you asked about KC registration and the pups were crawling with fleas, for example).




Pippa might not be KC registered but she is the most gentle and relaxed dog I have ever met. I do feel I rescued her in a way as her breeders were very bad however I went to see the litter out of curiosity and im so glad I did. In an ideal world all breeders should KC register their dogs but it just doesnt happen, I just meant that if id fallen in love with a dog then found out it wasnt registered but everything else looked it then it wouldnt stop me getting one.

pedigree aside, I think you should get a rescue pup. give some poor little mite the best start in life and as many home comforts as he can get :)

keely has a point - if I didn't want a KC Registered dog I'd have a rescue I have a rescue dog who is apparently full pedigree (his pedigree has names I can't track on it so he could be from anywhere) from dalmatian welfare.

Perhaps if you definitely want a lab and not sure about this breeder, you can ask labrador welfare/labrador rescue - I don't know who it is - if they have any pups in.

Personally, I wouldn't pay money for an unhealth tested litter and certainly not if the litter is in a bad way - it only encourages the morons who think it's ok to breed for money :mad:
I would think about getting a pup from a rescue though if I wasn't worried about the registration.

After writing down some of your point iv asked the seller some of the questions that u have all risen to me.. The seller says when I go tommorrow I can see the pup with his mum and dad. So after reading and thanking u for your info im going to see the pup again in the morning and hopefully bring him home..

Oops sorry - didn't see your little post slipped into the middle there! :lol:

Good luck tomorrow - I hope everything looks ok for you.

Good luck with your dog tomorrow. If you decide he isnt right for you and want to get a rescue labrador I have some numbers which I could give you. If you bring him home tomorrow please post some pics, I bet he is beautiful x

KC reg imo means diddly squat. find out about the health problems (Canine hip dysplasia) in your chosen breed and ask the breader if the dogs have been screened for them, check the living conditions,check the parents are sociable. If youre not bothered about breeding or showing a KC registered dog is pointless. A piece of paper is just that a piece of paper

keely has a point - if I didn't want a KC Registered dog I'd have a rescue I have a rescue dog who is apparently full pedigree (his pedigree has names I can't track on it so he could be from anywhere) from dalmatian welfare.

Perhaps if you definitely want a lab and not sure about this breeder, you can ask labrador welfare/labrador rescue - I don't know who it is - if they have any pups in.

Personally, I wouldn't pay money for an unhealth tested litter and certainly not if the litter is in a bad way - it only encourages the morons who think it's ok to breed for money :mad:
I would think about getting a pup from a rescue though if I wasn't worried about the registration.

Me neither Lotti. This is my main objection to unregistered pups and breeders of unregistered stock- if they were serious about improving the breed and breeding good healthy purebred dogs, they would go to the trouble of getting the benchmark of quality -KC registration - AND health screening certification (we got it with Ailsa when we bought her as again, hip dysplacia is prominent in the breed, as is Von Willebrand;s (blood clotting disorder), so it was reassuring to have evidence that both the bitch and dog had been tested for thes conditions. For goodness sake- they recoup any costs when they sell their pups, so really no excuse - I'd like to know why else they choose not to register..

As far as I'm concerned, if they aren't registered then they're not pedigree- but that doesn't make them any less lovable, gorgeous or personally valuable (not necessarily in monetary terms though).

I deliberately took the decision to get a rescue dog based entirely on temperament. I was prepared to get whatever dog that had the fabulous temperament with children, cats and other dogs and would have been OK with a mutt or a pedigree.

I'm pretty sure that Molly is genetically all GSD, but as far as I'm concerned all that does is tell me the sort of things that are likely to be behavioural and health issues for her. There are already far too many unwanted non-KC german shepherd dogs in rescue centres so I'm not going to consider breeding from her. I wouldn't like to try to guarantee finding safe homes for anything up to a dozen puppies- and if I couldn't do that and have a lifetime guarantee and mean it then it's not something I would consider anyway.

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After going to see puppy the house was very clean and puppies were very clean and active.. I so bothe parents has the seller owend them both and she answered all my questions with ease.. The dog is not registered has her mum was unable to be kc reg has her mum got pregnant b4 she was 1. The puppy is so perfect my daughter was so happy we brought him home.. If i find he not 100% pedigree I dont think I will mind has he is now part of our family.. If i can work it out I will put pics on here but not sure how to yet...THANK U ALL FOR YOUR SOUND ADVICE..:)

Im so glad it he is healthy and he has a new loving forever home :love: I bet he is beautiful. Send us some pics when you get chance! I love labs! :)

After going to see puppy the house was very clean and puppies were very clean and active.. I so bothe parents has the seller owend them both and she answered all my questions with ease.. The dog is not registered has her mum was unable to be kc reg has her mum got pregnant b4 she was 1. The puppy is so perfect my daughter was so happy we brought him home.. If i find he not 100% pedigree I dont think I will mind has he is now part of our family.. If i can work it out I will put pics on here but not sure how to yet...THANK U ALL FOR YOUR SOUND ADVICE..:)

Under the circumstances then, the mum's not being registered is fully understandable ,as the kennel club is strict about breeding age and numbers of litters produced. Glad to hear you are pleased with your new pup and hope to see photos soon.