For anyone sick of not getting a good service from the Police, or have read "Wasting Police Time" by a serving Police Officer going under the pseudonym PC David Copperfield, watch this programme!!!

This programme will be featuring interviews with frontline Police Officers, telling it how it really is, and why they're as frustrated as us members of the public when it comes to upholding Law and Order. PC David Copperfield (I've been informed) will also be revealing his true identity.

Details from the Panorama website have been pasted below:



Wasting Police Time

Frontline officers are telling Panorama they find it increasingly difficult to do their job effectively and claim they are being undermined by paperwork and pressure to meet government targets.

Some are now so fed up, they are leaving the country to join foreign police forces.


Panorama has spoken to a number of former and serving officers who say the very foundation of police work - that of preventing crime - is being undermined.

Officers speak of their sheer frustration at the volume of paperwork.

They also complain that government targets skew how they do their job.

A heavy focus on detection rates means officers can be tempted to concentrate on offences that are easier to clear up, however trivial.

One officer tells Panorama "Police officers are like anyone, they'll go for the easy option - the past of least resistance."

Some felt that policing now mostly comes down to meeting crime detection targets.

A former officer tells Panorama: "The public think that we solve burglaries, the public think that we're actually on patrol accosting thieves and people who are up to no good.

"But what we actually do is attempt to meet government statistics by solving trivial crime."

And this week many of their concerns were supported by the Chief Inspectorate of Policing's interim review into policing in England and Wales.

Sir Ronnie Flanagan's report said "excess bureaucracy" must be cut to free-up police time.

He said forces would "over-record and under-deliver" for fear of missing something or being criticised.

Panorama: Wasting Police Time can be seen on BBC One at 8.30pm on Monday 17 September.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/programmes/panorama/6995649.stm

Published: 2007/09/14 17:21:23 GMT

© BBC MMVII

Okay............I have my own views on the programme and am biased as such, but I'm very interested to know if anyone watched it and what their opinion is.

Has anyone been surprised by the revelations of frontline Police Officers?

How has this insight into the frustration of Police Officers made you feel?

Any other viewpoints you'd like to share?

Didn't watch it, but iv'e spoken to officers about why I hold contempt for the police and they have done nothing but agree with me.

If I am unfortunate to enough to deal with them again, I would rather be the perpurtraitor(sp) of a crime than the victim.

Didn't watch it, but iv'e spoken to officers about why I hold contempt for the police and they have done nothing but agree with me.

If I am unfortunate to enough to deal with them again, I would rather be the perpurtraitor(sp) of a crime than the victim.

So many Coppers are as frustrated as the public that they're prevented from using common sense when targets have to be fulfilled and mountains of paperwork completed.

I can see where you're coming from regarding favouring being a perpetrator rather than a victim of crime. Having been one myself, the person who committed criminal damage against me got away with not paying me compensation as he was already maxed out on his Benefits paying EXISTING court fines! But that's not the Police's fault, that's the fault of the courts.

It would be nice as victims of crime if we had a constant Police presence, timely responses to 999 calls, and a sense of belief in the justice system.

For anyone who's intrigued, or missed the programme, it can be viewed here Panorama Home Page (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/default.stm?survey=no&url=news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/default.stm&site=sitelabel&js=yes&uid=a4464e0e13c1dd53c619d1ad8192bc736e594ed1407070 cb7cddb853f2532e85) for the next week.

Didn't watch it, but iv'e spoken to officers about why I hold contempt for the police and they have done nothing but agree with me.

If I am unfortunate to enough to deal with them again, I would rather be the perpurtraitor(sp) of a crime than the victim.

Fully agree with this.Criminals get treated better than victims.What deterrent is there, when they are looked after better in prison, than old folks in care homes.:roll:

Fully agree with this.Criminals get treated better than victims.What deterrent is there, when they are looked after better in prison, than old folks in care homes.:roll:

I couldn't agree more. Both my parents are pensioners, and they're incensed that people in jail have only to bitch about their Human Rights and they have three squares a day, heating, lighting, cable TV, entertainment systems, hot and cold running water.......stuff that many law abiding people are unable to afford.

So many Coppers are as frustrated as the public that they're prevented from using common sense when targets have to be fulfilled and mountains of paperwork completed.

I can see where you're coming from regarding favouring being a perpetrator rather than a victim of crime. Having been one myself, the person who committed criminal damage against me got away with not paying me compensation as he was already maxed out on his Benefits paying EXISTING court fines! But that's not the Police's fault, that's the fault of the courts.

It would be nice as victims of crime if we had a constant Police presence, timely responses to 999 calls, and a sense of belief in the justice system.

Ive been on both sides of the law, as a victim on your estate, (i suspect one of the criminals that robbed me at knifepoint is likely to have taken part in the recent knifepoint robbery at a greenhill hairdressers) where the police treated me like dirt and took no action!

I also have been in trouble for a firearms offence, the police treated me well, I was punished with a free pair of trousers!

WTF?
I was deserving of help when i was in need - I didn't get it!

I was deserving of punishment when I did wrong - I didn't get it!

The Police :hihi:

Ive been on both sides of the law, as a victim on your estate, (i suspect one of the criminals that robbed me at knifepoint is likely to have taken part in the recent knifepoint robbery at a greenhill hairdressers) where the police treated me like dirt and took no action!

I also have been in trouble for a firearms offence, the police treated me well, I was punished with a free pair of trousers!

WTF?
I was deserving of help when i was in need - I didn't get it!

I was deserving of punishment when I did wrong - I didn't get it!

The Police :hihi:

WTF exactly!!!!

Definately something pear shaped about THAT one!!!!!

Btw, I did learn from my wrongdoing, but only after an intersting chat with the people I had done wrong to, when I went to apoligise and put right what I'd done wrong.

Btw, I did learn from my wrongdoing, but only after an intersting chat with the people I had done wrong to, when I went to apoligise and put right what I'd done wrong.

It's good that it worked for you. Due to the nature of the crimes I've been a victim of, it'd be extremely hard for me to forgive those responsible, especially as I was awarded a restraining order.

Of those, responsible for robbing me, one is in prison (he went on to beat and knife a person weeks after robbing me - he did seem to get a kick out of holding the knife to my throat while his mate gave me a few jabs), the other is still out and about. I'd quite like to get revenge on him, but I think I'll wait, somebody else will give him his commupance, I'll have a cup of tea and think "It couldn't have happened to a more deserving person".

I've no desire to destroy my job prospects further than what I have, I know that much at least.

Of those, responsible for robbing me, one is in prison (he went on to beat and knife a person weeks after robbing me - he did seem to get a kick out of holding the knife to my throat while his mate gave me a few jabs), the other is still out and about. I'd quite like to get revenge on him, but I think I'll wait, somebody else will give him his commupance, I'll have a cup of tea and think "It couldn't have happened to a more deserving person".

I've no desire to destroy my job prospects further than what I have, I know that much at least.

It's a shame that anyone should have to suffer a crime like you did. I can't help thinking that those kind of robberies and assaults would decrease if there was a more high profile Police presence on our streets, along with a zero tolerance policy applied by the courts (backing up the poor Coppers out there).

You made an error of judgement by committing a crime, but you resolved to change for the better....many don't, and for that, you have my respect.

Fully agree with this.Criminals get treated better than victims.What deterrent is there, when they are looked after better in prison, than old folks in care homes.:roll:

Ah, that old chestnut! The punishment of a prison sentence is separation from loved ones and loss of freedom. No amount of "luxuries" can compensate for that, surely?

... The punishment of a prison sentence is separation from loved ones and loss of freedom. No amount of "luxuries" can compensate for that, surely?

Ah, that old chestnut!

Well. It obviously is no deterrent to a lot of repeat offenders in this day and age.
It may deter many decent people, but I would like to see a trial of a more punitive prison regime to prove us right or wrong.

I agree that the custodial system and courts need restructuring too, but what worries me the most is that the unsavoury elements of society over the years have learnt through personal experience that the Police Force is now a toothless watchdog.

How many of us on here have complained about anti social behaviour, burglaries, being subjected to street assaults, harassment and threatening behaviour?

It scares me, to be honest, that Law and Order is now a joke, even to the victims of crime, and we're sliding into anarchy.

Those Police Officers who spoke out on the Panorama programme are risking their careers by even agreeing to speak to the media.

Johnno Hills used to be a Police Officer in Sussex. He was so angry on behalf of fellow Police Officers and members of the public about the crap service they provide, that he set up an online petition to the Home Secretary, demanding that the weight of paperwork and bureaucracy be lifted from them, so they had time to get out there and respond to calls for help in a timely fashion.

Johnno was told to choose.....being a Police Officer, or having the online petition. He chose the online petition as he felt so strongly about it. Any Police Officer who speaks to the media criticising the establishment is deemed to be "bringing the Police Force into disrepute", and it's a sackable offence.

Johnno gave up his career to make a stand, and he's not the only one.

Stuart Davidson was a Police Officer in Burton-on-Trent in Staffordshire. He started a blog site detailing his daily shifts as a Copper, telling it like it really is from a Copper's perspective. Fearing he'd ALSO be sacked, he used a pseudonym: PC David Copperfield. He published a book last year, called "Wasting Police Time", which comprised of blog entries. It's sold so well, he's been able to donate over £7,000 of his proceeds to COPS; Care of Police Survivors who are a charity that supports surviving family members of Police Officers who've lost their lives on duty.

Stuart left the Police Force in June 2007, but didn't tell anyone on his blog site, maintaining his anonymity. He's applied to and been accepted to join the Canadian Police Force in Edmonton, and is moving there soon.

Yes; he's bailing out, but not because he's a bad Copper......you don't get two Police Commendations during four years service for nothing!

The point of this post is to point out the price Police Officers pay for speaking out. If they do, they lose their careers.

As members of the public, we can speak for them, and the more of us who speak up, the less chance the Government has of dismissing our views. The whole idea of the Panorama programme was to provide a vehicle so that serving Police Officers, as well as Stuart, were given the opportunity to ask for our help, essentially. They took a huge risk in speaking out, even if their faces were obscured and some of their voices were dubbed. The least we can do is take up the baton on their behalf.

Yes; I feel very strongly about this, but I've known many Police Officers in different parts of the country over the past 30 years. They don't know one another, but they all tell the same story, about how frustrated they are that they can't do the job they signed on for. This is why I'm speaking up, and encouraging people to sign Johnno's online petition.

Don't fall into the trap I did for many years, and dismiss it because you've never been a victim of crime........until last year, I felt the same way........

The thing about programmes like panarama is that they get extreme views and present them as the norm to make the programme more interesting. The other side of the story is never shown.
Bit like the gutter press.

Keith

I check out David Copperfield's blog occasionally and his book is on my list in the next month or so. I watched Panorama last night and was quite depressed by what I saw.

It reminded me of the great documentary "The Trap" that Adam Curtis did on the BBC last year. In it he described a society that is obsessed with targets for absolutely everything. We have a government of bureaucratic ideologues who have to try and micromanage everything. It's the same mentality that leads to ID cards.

If you have a system rigidly based on targets, it's inevitable that people will find ingenious ways of fiddling those targets. Any discretion is taken away from the police officers who end up as petty-minded automatons. It's like something out of "Brazil" by Terry Gilliam.

:(

The thing about programmes like panarama is that they get extreme views and present them as the norm to make the programme more interesting. The other side of the story is never shown.
Bit like the gutter press.

Keith

Keith

I'm sorry to have to advise you that every single Police Officer I've spoken to during the past 30 odd years has either feared the effect of the introduction of additional paperwork requirements, or more recently, been extremely upset that the predominance of their shift time is taken up processing paperwork relating to arrests.

The Officers views seen on Panorama weren't just those of the complaining minority. It's the norm, but we, as members of the public rarely hear about it as Police Officers can be and ARE sacked for speaking out against the establishment.

Stuart Davidson was prepared to show his face and reveal his true identity as he'd already made plans to leave Staffordshire Constabulary and relocate to Canada. He had nothing to lose by standing up and speaking out. Too many Police Officers have mortgages to pay and families to provide for to take that kind of risk.

Yes, I would love to have heard from frontline Police Officers who are happy with the amount of paperwork required when processing prisoners which keeps them off our streets and trapped behind desks.......but in 30 odd years of getting to know many, many Police Officers, I've yet to come across one.

If you genuinely are sceptical regarding the complaints of the Officers as detailed in Monday night's Panorama, might I suggest you visit Stuart Davidson's blog site and read the comments posted by Police Officers (both retired and serving) and members of the public from a range of his posts. Like many members of the public who have luckily had little contact with the Police, I think you'll be very surprised.

http://coppersblog.blogspot.com/

I check out David Copperfield's blog occasionally and his book is on my list in the next month or so. I watched Panorama last night and was quite depressed by what I saw.

It reminded me of the great documentary "The Trap" that Adam Curtis did on the BBC last year. In it he described a society that is obsessed with targets for absolutely everything. We have a government of bureaucratic ideologues who have to try and micromanage everything. It's the same mentality that leads to ID cards.

If you have a system rigidly based on targets, it's inevitable that people will find ingenious ways of fiddling those targets. Any discretion is taken away from the police officers who end up as petty-minded automatons. It's like something out of "Brazil" by Terry Gilliam.

:(

Brazil is a very good analogy, as well as Equilibrium (a film of exceptional quality and very thought provoking).

Every Copper I've spoken to has complained that they're no longer permitted to use their discretion. Gone are the days when a stiff talking to was the order of the day. Even when someone rings up to report a crime, if upon investigation, no crime has taken place, Police Officers are STILL required to complete multitudes of documents in order to get it "de-crimed". This further removes Police Officers from our streets.

An organisation such as the Police Force cannot be managed statistically. The only sign that a Police Force is effective is hardly any arrests due to there being a reduced number of crimes and the populous feel safe in their own communities.

How do you measure an absence of something when it's a good thing?

I know of no practical way.

I still feel that Police Officers should be held accountable and a form of monitoring should be in situ, but the repetition of so many documents when outside organisations require a slice of the pie should NOT rest on the shoulders of frontline Police Officers.

Frontline Police Officers are there to arrest criminals, uphold the Law and assist the general public in times of emergency. If the CPS wants the Officer's handwritten statement typed up, then get clerical staff to do it. If photocopies are required, get clerical staff to do it. It's not rocket science.......the public want a higher Police presence in our communities.......the Police want to remove more undesirable elements from our communities........why aren't the Government doing something about it?!

How many Sheffielders were grateful to the efforts of South Yorkshire Police during the terrible flooding we experienced this year? How many complained that the Police didn't act sooner when closing roads and redirecting traffic away from the Don Valley and town centre?

I, personally, want to see more Police Officers either patrolling on foot or in cars, so when an incident occurs, they can be instantly deployed.

On each occasion I've had to dial 999 as a victim of crime, the delay has been a minimum of 2 hours before I even saw a uniform. I don't blame the Police Officers for this as other more serious incidents took priority, but when you're terrified because the perpetrator is still within sight of your home and you desperately want reassurance, it seems a lifetime. In most other cases, I never saw a Response Officer, but a Safer Neighbourhood Officer attended some hours after the incident to deal with it.

As members of the public, we're not getting the service we deserve and pay for in our taxes.

As serving Police Officers, they're not happy that they spend the bulk of their time sat in offices, when the core role of a Police Officer is catching criminals and keeping people safe.