So many women complain about womens rights and equal opportunities, women have their own gyms, Insurance Companies, Clubs and various other establishments. What about men, do you think theres things where we get a rough deal and if we complained about it wed get told to be quiet? whats your views!?

I'm getting narked off with ANY positive discrimination. It devalues the people who are capable of competing on equal terms.

Well, to be fair, men do, on the whole, run governemnt and business and organise the world according to our own needs and desires and the form that takes is one where women are sometimes disadvanateg by virtue only of thier agenda, so I don't have any truck with most "PC gone mad arguments" I'm afraid.

As you started the post I would be interested to hear what examples you have where you have been told to shut up becasue of your 'man's needs'?

Originally posted by theflyingfish
Well, to be fair, men do, on the whole, run governemnt and business and organise the world according to our own needs and .....
do they really? i personally think there is a big influence at home from their partners - look at the clintons

I think that as far as governance goes, there are still a lot of old boys clubs around, for which we must be very wary :(

Originally posted by youngmcgill
So many women complain about womens rights and equal opportunities, women have their own gyms, Insurance Companies, Clubs and various other establishments. What about men, do you think theres things where we get a rough deal and if we complained about it wed get told to be quiet? whats your views!?

maybe women complain about their rights more because men don't need to as they have them already? i dunno just a thought - i'm all for things like Fathers for Justice etc in that case we (blokes) really do get a poor deal

Originally posted by theflyingfish
Well, to be fair, men do, on the whole, run governemnt and business and organise the world according to our own needs and desires and the form that takes is one where women are sometimes disadvanateg by virtue only of thier agenda, so I don't have any truck with most "PC gone mad arguments" I'm afraid.

As you started the post I would be interested to hear what examples you have where you have been told to shut up becasue of your 'man's needs'?

I think in general terms yes Women at times get a rough deal but on many occasions that can be down to their failure to actually do something about it, avoiding the more serious times such as discrimination in the work place as i agree that this does happen, my point is looking to address that of more dometcis issues and general everyday circumstances other than those of a more serious nature.

Originally posted by youngmcgill
So many women complain about womens rights and equal opportunities, women have their own gyms, Insurance Companies, Clubs and various other establishments. What about men, do you think theres things where we get a rough deal and if we complained about it wed get told to be quiet? whats your views!?

A couple of things I find slightly unfair are the way that some places (swimming baths, Gyms) have women only nights, but throughout the 70's and 80's many clubs and organisations were told that they couldn't be exclusively for men only. I would just like to see true equality.

Also, I think there isn't equality in relationships... (I'm not just being tight here) It seems as though there are still many women who believe that a man SHOULD pay for meals, pay for drinks etc, even when both people have jobs, and there should be no reason for the man to always pay.

I know some people would argue that it is the 'nice' or 'romantic' thing to do, but doesn't it just devalue women, and keep men in the role of provider. I don't think this tradition came about through romance, but rather because women didn't work in the past, so the man had to pay.... seems very outdated.

I have nothing against paying for things, I do it for my friends and family, but rather people thinking that men should be the ones to pay.

Originally posted by Snook
A couple of things I find slightly unfair are the way that some places (swimming baths, Gyms) have women only nights, but throughout the 70's and 80's many clubs and organisations were told that they couldn't be exclusively for men only. I would just like to see true equality.

I'd hope equality could exist without having to strip anything out that had a gender reference - in this case - perhaps it is unfair for men who could only get to the baths on that certain night - but for other things, such as some of the womens co-ops in Sheffield, I think any non-destructive celebration of gender / diversity is an excellent idea.

Originally posted by Snook
A couple of things I find slightly unfair are the way that some places (swimming baths, Gyms) have women only nights, but throughout the 70's and 80's many clubs and organisations were told that they couldn't be exclusively for men only. I would just like to see true equality.

Also, I think there isn't equality in relationships... (I'm not just being tight here) It seems as though there are still many women who believe that a man SHOULD pay for meals, pay for drinks etc, even when both people have jobs, and there should be no reason for the man to always pay.

I know some people would argue that it is the 'nice' or 'romantic' thing to do, but doesn't it just devalue women, and keep men in the role of provider. I don't think this tradition came about through romance, but rather because women didn't work in the past, so the man had to pay.... seems very outdated.

I have nothing against paying for things, I do it for my friends and family, but rather people thinking that men should be the ones to pay.

Absolutely thats my point exactly, theres a certain expectation of men and I think men feel an obligation to do these things and be "the provider" and I think at time it can put undue pressure on the male. I know it does in my relationship at times! and id like to reinforce the point of it not being tight but merely a wish for true equality!

Originally posted by iffypop
I'd hope equality could exist without having to strip anything out that had a gender reference - in this case - perhaps it is unfair for men who could only get to the baths on that certain night - but for other things, such as some of the womens co-ops in Sheffield, I think any non-destructive celebration of gender / diversity is an excellent idea.

I agree, excellent idea, but I seem to remember alot of clubs and groups that were just for men having to close, or let women in... seems a bit unfair somehow.

Originally posted by Snook
I agree, excellent idea, but I seem to remember alot of clubs and groups that were just for men having to close, or let women in... seems a bit unfair somehow.

Absolutely, but just another example of how men get a rough deal! Ive just answered another question on abortion and many peoples opinions seems to be that the father should have as much input into whether or not to terminate as the mother is prepared to give. I think thats completely wrong as its a life changing decision for a father thats taken completely out of his hands! Equality? No.

Originally posted by Snook
I agree, excellent idea, but I seem to remember alot of clubs and groups that were just for men having to close, or let women in... seems a bit unfair somehow.

For me it all depends on the situation : if the swimming baths you mentioned shut its doors entirely to men, forever - i would have a problem with that. For one thing, it would be a waste of resource for the community - just like stuffy golf clubs who refused to let women in.

Maybe it would be a good idea, if there were still enough old schoolers at a particular golf club who were uncomfortable with letting women play, they could have one day a week when it was just them. That might make everyone happier!

iffy.

it's annoying that they have a 'women only' area at my gym (Virgin Active)

and i really hate the fact that, if queing at a club they sometimes let all the women in first!!! what's that all about :(

Originally posted by Bedhead
it's annoying that they have a 'women only' area at my gym (Virgin Active)

and i really hate the fact that, if queing at a club they sometimes let all the women in first!!! what's that all about :(

These are all just small examples where men get a rough deal and I think its very true that we men do get bumped on many things, the only thing is when women complain about things they go all the way to the European Court of whatever to get their own way! Men, anything for an easy life! We just deal with it, women start a petition!

Originally posted by Bedhead
it's annoying that they have a 'women only' area at my gym (Virgin Active)

and i really hate the fact that, if queing at a club they sometimes let all the women in first!!! what's that all about :(

I have the feeling that they wouldn't be allowed to have a 'men only' area. Just doesn't quite seem like equality somehow.

Originally posted by Snook
I have the feeling that they wouldn't be allowed to have a 'men only' area. Just doesn't quite seem like equality somehow.

I dont think theyd be allowed a mens area either, just cos its men and men dont get things to themselves!

Having said all that, I don't think that us men have that much to complain about. At least we are taken seriously at work, and get paid more on average than women doing the same job, as well as holding most of the important positions.

Also, there still seems to be the thing of people looking down on women in their 30's who are still single and don't have a family as if there must be something wrong with them... men don't seem to get that, so I guess it all balances out.

Looking at this link equal opportunities doesn't seem such a negative thing for men to me - just a positive thing for all

EOC (http://www.eoc.org.uk/cseng/abouteoc/abouteoc.asp)

Originally posted by Siân
Looking at this link equal opportunities doesn't seem such a negative thing for men to me - just a positive thing for all

EOC (http://www.eoc.org.uk/cseng/abouteoc/abouteoc.asp)

Of course its a positive thing for all, but its only women who get the equal thing, men just get told to deal with it, women get lawyers and go to the courts and get compensation!

Originally posted by Siân
Looking at this link equal opportunities doesn't seem such a negative thing for men to me - just a positive thing for all

EOC (http://www.eoc.org.uk/cseng/abouteoc/abouteoc.asp)

I don't think anyone here has knocked equal rights though have they? It isn't equal to have a gym with a 'women only' section and no 'men only' section. It also isn't equal if men are expected to pay for things simply because they are men.

I know this is nothing compared with what women have had to go through, especially where work is concerned, and I don't think it is still balanced, as men still seem to get the best deal.

I realise that some men would like to go back in time to when women didn't work and where they don't feel threatened by women, but I didn't get that impression from this thread, so I don't see how equal opportunities has been portraid as 'negative'? It seems that's what people were asking for.

Originally posted by Snook
Having said all that, I don't think that us men have that much to complain about. At least we are taken seriously at work, and get paid more on average than women doing the same job, as well as holding most of the important positions.
Excuse me?! Where on earth did you get that classic neo-feminist view point...

There are plenty of places that peoples skills are given priority over anything as pathetically stupid as their gender... There are BIG high paid jobs out there that women still haven't managed to fight their way into but give it time...


Also, there still seems to be the thing of people looking down on women in their 30's who are still single and don't have a family as if there must be something wrong with them... men don't seem to get that, so I guess it all balances out.
I'm stunned Snook... where on earth did you get this rubbish... It really belongs in the ark... C'mon... this is the 21st century...

Originally posted by Martin_s
Excuse me?! Where on earth did you get that classic neo-feminist view point...

There are plenty of places that peoples skills are given priority over anything as pathetically stupid as their gender... There are BIG high paid jobs out there that women still haven't managed to fight their way into but give it time...



I'm stunned Snook... where on earth did you get this rubbish... It really belongs in the ark... C'mon... this is the 21st century...

Erm, I think you are misreading me here. I'm not giving this as my opinion. I don't think anything of the sort, but I'm rather relating what I've been told by female friends. Rightly or wrongly they still feel under alot of pressure to settle down, get married and have kids. Particularly those from more traditional families.

I was saying that women feel this pressure EVEN THOUGH those views belong on the ark, as you say. Please don't misread me and make me out to be both a sexist and a feminist in the same post. I'm neither and just want to see equality. I don't think gender or race or anything else should matter, everyone should be treated on their own merits.

As for the job thing, what exactly do you take exception to? Men still get paid more on average than women for the same jobs... I'm not trying to make a point here, just relating fact.

I think there are "women only" evenings at swimming pools and "women only" areas at gyms because women have asked for them and there is enough demand there to justify it. They may just feel more comfortable exercising without drawing unwelcome attention (real or as a result of paranoia).

If enough men were to register a request for men only areas/times and gave a valid reason that gyms and pools could market and exploit then I'm sure you'd get those too.

women get lawyers and go to the courts and get compensation!

Only if there was discrimination in the first place

Of course its a positive thing for all, but its only women who get the equal thing, men just get told to deal with it,

Deal with any raw deal they may face as a direct result of their gender & nothing else ?

Originally posted by Snook
Erm, I think you are misreading me here. I'm not giving this as my opinion. I don't think anything of the sort, but I'm rather relating what I've been told by female friends.
Well fair enough but perhaps you should make that clear... because the way it read was as your views...


As for the job thing, what exactly do you take exception to? Men still get paid more on average than women for the same jobs... I'm not trying to make a point here, just relating fact.
Perhaps it's just that I come from a pretty different viewpoint, having worked in education, care-work and computing... Even computing has shown that women are taking an interest and have just the same sorts of drive as their male counterparts...

I think the important thing to remember is that "average" is such a poorly applied term... there are still plenty of women who are/were unable to take higher or further education because of circumstances (such as children) and it will take quite a while until that sort of inequality further up the generations, actually evens out...

Overall the message shouldn't be one of "mens rights" or "womens rights" but equality of opportunity and recognition of skills and experience.. irrespective of age, gender or colour... Preaching to the choir I'm sure but it's slowly getting there...

Originally posted by Martin_s
Overall the message shouldn't be one of "mens rights" or "womens rights" but equality of opportunity and recognition of skills and experience.. irrespective of age, gender or colour... Preaching to the choir I'm sure but it's slowly getting there...

Sorry for not making things clear and any confusion.

I agree with that message 100% percent Martin, and that was the one I was trying (obviously poorly :)) to make.

Originally posted by LottieWat
I think there are "women only" evenings at swimming pools and "women only" areas at gyms because women have asked for them and there is enough demand there to justify it. They may just feel more comfortable exercising without drawing unwelcome attention (real or as a result of paranoia).

If enough men were to register a request for men only areas/times and gave a valid reason that gyms and pools could market and exploit then I'm sure you'd get those too.

But why do women want them to begin with? I think men would like them but to be honest, were not that bothered and dont make as much fuss as women do women just like to have a go and have something to do!

why women want them is not really the point is it.

If the same facility would be extended to men if they wanted it, then it's perfectly fair. The fact that men choose not to bother is in no way a reason to stop women having the facility if they do bother.

Dont know how true it is, but i hear some pubs have started letting women in on a Sunday dinnertime.
How disgraceful is that:mad: .

Who is supposed to cook dinner if all the women are in the pub?
make no wonder society has collapsed.

Originally posted by Bedhead
it's annoying that they have a 'women only' area at my gym (Virgin Active)

and i really hate the fact that, if queing at a club they sometimes let all the women in first!!! what's that all about :(
girls tend to be more paranoid about their bodies, whereas blokes like to show their muscles off. at fitness first there is upstairs and little downstairs sep rooms, that anyone uses, but tends to be new starters and the shy ones.
anyway the big gym tends to get a bit smelly:gag:

However the womens section in Virgin Active isn't walled off or separate or anything - its just a section of a large open plan gym with a sign over the top!

Originally posted by youngmcgill
So many women complain about womens rights and equal opportunities, women have their own gyms, Insurance Companies, Clubs and various other establishments. What about men, do you think theres things where we get a rough deal and if we complained about it wed get told to be quiet? whats your views!?

Men had it all for far too long!!!! We are only just slightly tipping the scales back in our direction in terms of time and evolution and you are all quick to moan about it. Look how long we were quiet for. Just goes to prove what a lot of whingers you are (tongue firmly in cheek now and assuming the crash position)

Go and join the Masons if it upsets you, we are not allowed in there.

:help:

I don't think arguing for an imbalance towards women's right in order to 'make up for' the previous historical imbalance in the other direction is a particularly strong argument.
Do you?

Originally posted by Cyclone
I don't think arguing for an imbalance towards women's right in order to 'make up for' the previous historical imbalance in the other direction is a particularly strong argument.
Do you?

Did you not notice the "tongue in cheek"?

Originally posted by evildrneil
However the womens section in Virgin Active isn't walled off or separate or anything - its just a section of a large open plan gym with a sign over the top!
cant see the point then.
i cant see women ever coming out on top or whatever. esp in the work place. i find men are for men and women are for men. check out bars as a completely diff example. you may say girls get served first but i think youll find this isnt true. men tend to spend more so maybe thats why?

Originally posted by Cyclone
I don't think arguing for an imbalance towards women's right in order to 'make up for' the previous historical imbalance in the other direction is a particularly strong argument.
Do you?

I think for once Cyclone and I actually agree here! As the quote on your email says, an eye for an eye would make the world blind. Its happened, we should concentrate on being equal and not women "getting their own back"

Originally posted by bonny
Did you not notice the "tongue in cheek"?

repeated twice for you now, you men really must learn to read better. (ducks for cover this time)

Originally posted by youngmcgill
I think for once Cyclone and I actually agree here! As the quote on your email says, an eye for an eye would make the world blind. Its happened, we should concentrate on being equal and not women "getting their own back" agree, i think women are stronger than we think inthe past. i know in my family, even way back its always been the woman who was head and ruler of family. still is now, my mum def the boss

Originally posted by NatalieSheff
agree, i think women are stronger than we think inthe past.

Oh my goodness, this is getting silly now, please all go back and read again my post that you are all so offended by. Has everyone lost the ability to notice irony.

Originally posted by bonny
Oh my goodness, this is getting silly now, please all go back and read again my post that you are all so offended by. Has everyone lost the ability to notice irony.
:D chill out little fish we all on same side. if im honest i only read youngmc post didnt read urs til now. :hihi:

Originally posted by bonny
Oh my goodness, this is getting silly now, please all go back and read again my post that you are all so offended by. Has everyone lost the ability to notice irony.

This website is fantastic, i dont know what ive been doing for the last 4 years at work without it! anyway, I think women are much stronger than before. The company I work for the top 3 directors are female, my manager is female and all of my colleagues are female. I work for a company with a £30m turnover so its quite an achievement for them.

it should do well - girls are better in the work place anyway as they dont think about bonking all the time!

interesting study on male/female members of board and how it affects companies.

Men tend to either make the company fly or crash. Women are better at keeping it close to the middle, either a little bit of growth/profit or a small loss.

Women are better at recovering a failing company, men are better at building a new business.

Should plan things to utilise both strengths.

Originally posted by NatalieSheff
it should do well - girls are better in the work place anyway as they dont think about bonking all the time!

girls are better in the workplace!?!

In my experience i've known some really difficult women! having to tread on egg shells all the time, there mood (often) dependent on the state of their relationship or whatever

i've known some idiot blokes too of course but not to the same extent - they were just kinda weird but easy enough to converse with when necessary

just my personal experience anyhow

Originally posted by NatalieSheff
it should do well - girls are better in the work place anyway as they dont think about bonking all the time!

Either i'm strange or it's a myth that men think about sex once every two minutes or whatever.
If I'm busy at work I'm fairly sure that I can go the entire day at work without it crossing my mind.

Originally posted by Cyclone
Either i'm strange or it's a myth that men think about sex once every two minutes or whatever.
If I'm busy at work I'm fairly sure that I can go the entire day at work without it crossing my mind.

yup me too

and anyhow, in the workplace i'm the one who's had unwanted hassle and inuendo from women - i guess that's an equailty of sorts then!