Around 1978, my friend who lived at Grenoside, told me about some sort of religious sect that were involved in a kind of black magic type stuff. Severed goats heads were found in Greno woods, has anyone else heard of this/ or involved, or was he pulling my chain?

Also does this sort of thing still go on?

Spent most of my childhood playing in the Grenowoods and never heard of anything like that. Even when I grew up I still loved the woods and go there when ever I can.:)

I've heard stories quite like this too and I remember someone telling me evidence(things carved in trees, fires) of this had been found in the bottom part of the woods near Halifax Road. On the other hand though I have spent many, many hours playing in the woods as a kid and I have never seen anything suspicious whatsoever.

Wassail

no such thing as black magik...first off ;)

Most woods at some point or another in their lifetime will have had some similar tale told of them. Most wooded or natural areas in Sheffield will be used by magikal groups but have little to do with goats or other stereotypical items.

I am not so stupid to assume that groups do not get together and sacrifice animals I just prefer to put a great distance between prats like that and people who do actually practise magik.

There is no need to sacrifice anything in magik other than your time and energy

Moon

Wassail to you as well. Indeed, to everyone on the forum, wassail one and all.

I don't agree with you over black magic (I prefer the sensible "c" as opposed to Crowley's pretentious "k"). It's not referring to a specific sect, but to the method, intent and application. You could just as well say dark magic (or Dark Magik, though that smacks of dungeons and dragons). There's also dark Christianity (as a witch, that needs no further elaboration) and dark Islam. If you used the term black magic to a non-witch, they'd know what you were referring to, and their notions of it wouldn't be too far off-mark. Demon summonation is about as black as you can get. If the name fits, we should use it.

There used to be a clearing in the wood at Grenoside which was frequently visited (so I hear) by teenagers for the sorts of things teenagers do...not devil worship however..it was nicknamed Jonny town. Didn't need explaining

Drinkhail! (As I believe is the costumary response... why are we speaking in Old Norse by the way?)

I've heard stories like this about the General Cemetery while growing up, but was disappointed to discover that no such things go on, rather just teens getting drunk and smoking substances of dubious merit.

Originally posted by Ant
Wassail to you as well. Indeed, to everyone on the forum, wassail one and all.

I don't agree with you over black magic (I prefer the sensible "c" as opposed to Crowley's pretentious "k"). It's not referring to a specific sect, but to the method, intent and application. You could just as well say dark magic (or Dark Magik, though that smacks of dungeons and dragons). There's also dark Christianity (as a witch, that needs no further elaboration) and dark Islam. If you used the term black magic to a non-witch, they'd know what you were referring to, and their notions of it wouldn't be too far off-mark. Demon summonation is about as black as you can get. If the name fits, we should use it.

Actually although I cannot stand Crowley he has actually brought the spelling back to it's origins as many of the ancient world never used the letter 'c' ( i believe it didn't come into common use until 500 years ago) and magik's origins go further than many languages. So really it isn't just down to Crowley is it...infact it was probably Mathers who gave him that little gem of information.

The colouration of magik is for those who have no comprehension of it. So I am happy to concede for ease of use 'you' can have black magik if you like, the fact remains it doesn't exist magik is neither good nor evil it just is.
Leading on from intent...it may be accurate to say that a person is a black witch or a black magik user, however good and evil are perceptions and as such specific to the individual and what you may percieve to be an evil act on my part may actually be beneficial as viewed by another.

Again I can get pendantic with your use of demon summoning also as it really depends on your definition and perception of the entities. We are really wading into the moral grounds of magik not to mention the cultural and religious boundaries surrounding it.

Why old norse...the original posters username is viking ;)

Moon

I used to go bike riding a fair bit in Grenoside woods, once me and my brother got lost! :P

Never saw anything strange, I have friends who still go bike riding there and I'm sure I'd have heard something!

Actually although I cannot stand Crowley he has actually brought the spelling back to it's origins as many of the ancient world never used the letter 'c' ( i believe it didn't come into common use until 500 years ago).

And that's the very reason I'm mystified by it's use. Why do witches use an archaic spelling? It's the "blessed be" syndrome. Why? I just don't get it? What's the point of bringing a spelling back to it's origins? A pub is a pub, not ye publik house. We don't all revert to wall painting woolly mammoths instead of just writing "woolly mammoths".


it may be accurate to say that a person is a black witch or a black magik user, however good and evil are perceptions and as such specific to the individual and what you may percieve to be an evil act on my part may actually be beneficial as viewed by another.

Maybe, though that's a bit of a cop-out. Just as the Islamic fundamentalists who destroyed the twin towers can be justifiably labelled as representing the dark elements of Islamics, in their warped minds, they'd refuse to see it as an evil act, and would probably call it a holy act in the name of Allah. A black act is a black act.

The point I was making is that you were in the wrong saying there is no such thing as black magic. A demon summoner (and I'm using the term in a very specific way), is using what most sensible people would call black magic. It's common terminology that's perfectly legitimate to use.

And why use "magik" when "magic" is perfectly good? Why do many wiccans insist on the "blessed be's" when a "good luck, mate" is far less pompous? It's just adopting oldy worldy speak to look mysterious. Profoundly ridiculous.

And yes, I know we're way off topic. Perhaps a seperate pagan/witchcraft thread?

If we're changing our 'c's to 'k's why not do our 'u's to 'v's also?

I just thought of a new way to write the f word in a 'pc' way without using non alphabetical charectors

i often go out over greno woods and wharncliffe forrest on the mountain bike,never seen or heared of anything like this,
even in the early 70's we used to play up there and never ran into anything like that,
but as said ,woods will always have "tales" about them justified or not :-)
JJ..

Walked with my dogs in Greno woods for years and have never seen any area's that look remotely like sacrificial grounds, seen lots of odd or iffy looking people but I suppose to others I may look strange..........who knows.

My cousin once found a sheeps skull on a rock with a pentecost drawn on it. Not sure which woods it was though.

Thank you all for replies.
There seems to be little evidence one way or the other yet.

Well being that I don't use blessed be nor am I, nor ever will be a wiccan. The day you catchin me using blessed f***** be on line is the day I will cut me own wrists.

It is specifics isn't it and differentiating between what I practise and what paul daniels and david copperfield do.
Pagans use old spellings because their practises pre date most records and they are more comfortable with it. If you don't like it don't spell it that way I ain't loosing no sleep about i, but please don't come preaching to me about my use of the word when i live eat breath and sleep the subject.

I don't think it is a cop out at all...it is addressing a wider and more complex issue. Circumstances are rarely black and white and magik does not follow christian dogma which is probably where you are having most problems with this being that our society is based primarily on christian values.

Black magik does not exist, saying otherwise is completely mis-leading and taking the entire subject out of context. If you wish to perpetuate the chav outlook on it then please feel free (apologies for using such a term but I really cannot think of any other way to describe people who are ignorant and unable to learn other perpsectives) and I will continue to offer a more educated and experienced outlook.

I can as much as any person call a spade a spade and prefer it...unfortunately when certain terms are used it creates a completely warped and misleading view of what actually is, being that I am part of the groups mentioned I like to do my bit to enlighten people on what they are actually talking about and what their chosen words do.

I take it you are using the christian perspective of demons as opposed to the greek, siberian, Tibetian or native american perspective...all of which use demons as beneficial entities in their myths and workings?

You are right...it is slightly off topic...there is a very heated witchcraft topic somewhere in the depths of the general chat section from the summer

Moon

Just wanted to apologise if my post is coming across as a bit aggressive there Ant, it is something I am very passionate about *erk*

Moon

I was out "walking" the other day with my friend, when we came accross what we assumed to be a "den" in the woods in Deepcar. As the weather was getting nasty we decided to sit in it for a while and wait the weather out. As our eyes adjusted to the dark we noticed a small yellow candle, and some kind of small table, with an opening in the "den" roof immediatley above it.

We came to the very sudden conclusion that it was not a great place to be as it looked VERY dodgy (we had visions of ritual sacrifices etc), so we scarpered quick. As we are both practacing Christians, we said a little prayer and hoped that we hadn't upset any dark forces or whatever and made haste.

No goats heads or odd symbols just a collection of items that looked very odd....:suspect:

You probably came across a pagans altar. They don't all keep them inside you see.

A yellow candle isn't particularly anything to worry about it is a guiding light to bring people home, or a way to bring a person wealth. Perhaps the person burning it was asking their gods for help with money or for a lost loved one to come home.

Moon

Thats good then! I was worried for a bit!

:clap:

its more likely to be a homeless guy,
there are a few about ,
JJ..

I was walking past the general cementry one night and a man invited me to go and watch a sacrifice. Strangely enough I didnt go with him.

Originally posted by Moon Maiden
You probably came across a pagans altar. They don't all keep them inside you see.

A yellow candle isn't particularly anything to worry about it is a guiding light to bring people home, or a way to bring a person wealth. Perhaps the person burning it was asking their gods for help with money or for a lost loved one to come home.

Moon

hence the tie a 'yellow' ribbon :)

Moon Maiden, you are a moderator, please act like one.

When I questioned the use of magik as oposed to magic, it was a straight question, and perfectly valid. Your answer of "differentiating between what I practise and what paul daniels and david copperfield do." was a reasonable answer, but for me, not exactly satisfactory. It still seems pretentious.

"Pagans use old spellings because their practises pre date most records and they are more comfortable with it." merely supports my view. What alarmed me was " If you don't like it don't spell it that way I ain't loosing no sleep about i, but please don't come preaching to me about my use of the word when i live eat breath and sleep the subject." As a reply, that stinks. I wasn't preaching. It's a forum, and I'll question whatever I like. I've many passionate interests in my life, but I wouldn't get the narks on if you questioned me mis-spelling a word because it linked me with Paul piggin Daniels. (I also think that us non-witches are intelligent enough to differentiate between said Paul piggin Daniels' conjuring tricks and witch's magic).

Black magic does exist, and there we'll have to agree to differ. It doesn't make my opinions of a "chav outlook" (that comment was petty and childish, Ms. Moon), just as it doesn't make you a misguided idiot in holding an alternative opinion. Just a difference of opinion, that's all. Just because you disagree with me doesn't make my opinion "ignorant", nor does it allow you to claim the intellectual highground by continuing " to offer a more educated and experienced outlook."

"I take it you are using the christian perspective of demons as opposed to the greek, siberian, Tibetian or native american perspective...all of which use demons as beneficial entities in their myths and workings?"

No. I am acquainted with a group of volunteers working in the US all of whom have been mentally scarred by experiences in covens, all of whom describe archetypal demon summonation vastly at odds with your cosy benevolent entities. I am not a Christian, you presume way too much Ms. Moon.

And if you are going to apologise for an overly aggressive post, try re-editting to take the offensive crap out of it.

I can see that this is a subject that you both feel pationatley about, but i would say as a netural 3rd party that you should both just agree to disagree and cool down.

From my point of view, it doesnt matter if its Magik or Majic or whatever the spelling!

:|

Originally posted by jony_p

From my point of view, it doesnt matter if its Magik or Majic or whatever the spelling!
:|

no it doesn't me either :rolleyes:

I may be a moderator Ant however I am also a witch and am entitled to my opinion and also as part of said network am obliged to speak out against blatant ignorance on the subject which you are showing in great abundance. Whether you are a christian or not you are subject to it's dogma and teachings unless you live in some cut off commune or outside the British Isles in a country who religious values differ to the UK.

What your us friends appear to be describing to you - if i am reading that last bit right as it seems in a negative light - is a christian perspective of a demonic entity......perhaps you should investigate or refer them onto those cultures I mentioned for a wider view and then you may understand what it is I am talking about.

Better still i can send you a link to a website and then they can get a real magik users perspective of the occult rather than the fluff they were quite obviously subjected to. Let me know if you want the link.

Moon

Perhaps ill stay out of this one......:suspect:

Originally posted by jony_p
Perhaps ill stay out of this one......:suspect:

LOL - it is a subject that cannot adequately be discussed in SF unfortunately....perhaps one day.*ho hum*

Thank you Moon maiden and Ant for your contributions.
I hope i have not stirred up a hornets nest up.
:thumbsup:

"I may be a moderator Ant however I am also a witch and am entitled to my opinion and also as part of said network am obliged to speak out against blatant ignorance on the subject which you are showing in great abundance."

What sort of arsey statement is that? You're making yourself look increasingly patronising. You are not the source of all wisdom regarding witchcraft. Just because you have been practicing for many years does NOT give you intellectual superiority. I have quite sufficient knowledge of what I'm talking about to know that you are wrong. The fault you are showing as a moderator is labelling my views that of a chav because you disagree with them, implying ignororance on my part as an argument-winning ploy, and accusing me of "preaching" when I questioned the pretentious use amongst witches of the word "magik" as oposed to "magic" (due, apparently, to distancing yourself from crap stage acts).

It's not your differing opinion that's bothered me, can you not see that? It's blatantly obvious if you read my posts. It was your condesending and overly aggressive attitude.

And this...

"Whether you are a christian or not you are subject to it's dogma and teachings unless you live in some cut off commune or outside the British Isles in a country who religious values differ to the UK." ...is obvious, and applies to you as well, effectively cancelling itself out as an argument, unless you are implying that you have educated yourself out of such limited teachings and I have yet to do so? Tripe.

"What your us friends appear to be describing to you - if i am reading that last bit right as it seems in a negative light - is a christian perspective of a demonic entity"

No I'm not, it's NOTHING to do with a christian perspective, how many times do have to force that line on me? These people (whose testimony I trust totally) have described the summonation of foul looking and foul smelling entities and subsequent acts that only a gibbering idiot wouldn't describe as being "dark" or "black".

"Better still i can send you a link to a website and then they can get a real magik users perspective of the occult rather than the fluff they were quite obviously subjected to. Let me know if you want the link."

Stop being so bloody patronising.

Originally posted by Ant
You are not the source of all wisdom regarding witchcraft.

Originally posted by Ant I have quite sufficient knowledge of what I'm talking about to know that you are wrong.

Originally posted by Ant Stop being so bloody patronising.

Guys...this is getting silly.....just agree to disagree and cool it.

*sigh*...Ant when you are better able to address any of the issues raised here and actually understand any point I have made so far, please contact me and I am more than happy to continue.

A proper debate involves actually addressing issues and points made not nit picking over tone and your responses displays adequately my points on how much you actually know on the subject.

I see no point in continuing a conversation with someone who clearly doesn't understand the subject matter and has no comprehension of the complexities at hand even when they are written in pink neon with step by step instructions..

Fount of all witchcraft no...will never claim that however I do have the common sense I was born with.

May The Shades Guide you
Moon

I understand all the points you have made, are you implying I'm stupid? And I'm not nitpicking over the tone - you yourself apologised over the tone over your own post, so it must have been bad.

You've added nothing to what I've said. My points were over adopting archaic spelling and the use of the term "black magic", both of which actually require very little knowledge of the subject in the first place, so your self positioning on the peak of the mountain of knowledge is irrelevant.

I also have the common sense that I was born with, so stop the childish digs. Patronising * SIGH * right back at you.

May the Seven Holy Piglets of Persia poo in your copper kettle.

Ant.

I have to say, Moon Maiden, that I agree with Ant. I personally think that witchcraft is a way of people being "different". But in being different, I could almost bet that you like the colour purple, pictures of dolphins, silver jewellery and wearing black. Is this a stereotype?? Well maybe so, and not one I would have voiced, except you said that people who did not hold the same beliefs as you were "chavs". I find this offensive, and stereotypical.

Originally posted by BoroughGal
I have to say, Moon Maiden, that I agree with Ant. I personally think that witchcraft is a way of people being "different". But in being different, I could almost bet that you like the colour purple, pictures of dolphins, silver jewellery and wearing black. Is this a stereotype?? Well maybe so, and not one I would have voiced, except you said that people who did not hold the same beliefs as you were "chavs". I find this offensive, and stereotypical.

Yeah, have to agree with this too. Lots of people seem to be 'different' now, and if poor spelling like 'magik' is anything to go by then I'm sure most of us qualify to be witches too.

But hey, each to their own, everyone should have a hobby or interest. Just glad to see nobody is proposing a hunt and burning like they would have in the past. :)

Originally posted by BoroughGal
I have to say, Moon Maiden, that I agree with Ant. I personally think that witchcraft is a way of people being "different". But in being different, I could almost bet that you like the colour purple, pictures of dolphins, silver jewellery and wearing black. Is this a stereotype?? Well maybe so, and not one I would have voiced, except you said that people who did not hold the same beliefs as you were "chavs". I find this offensive, and stereotypical. Seeing that your in Hillsborough why not pop into shades and have a chat with Moon maiden then you will see how wrong you are.:)

But hey, each to their own, everyone should have a hobby or interest. Just glad to see nobody is proposing a hunt and burning like they would have in the past. :) [/B]

you'd be suprised,ive been persecuted if thats the word to use in this day and age,just because im a 'witch' (and i didnt save up tokens from crisp packets and the likes to BE one, its a recognised religion, witches dont just wear black clobber and eyeliner and claim to 'be' one..if you walked past me in the street you wouldnt think 'she s a witch' with what i wear, far from it :)
aunty witch xx

Wow.... this is some discussion.

Don't suppose anyone has heard of them being referred to as 'Ponterers' have they ???

As a child I heard many stories of happenings in Greno Woods, especially the entrance behind the 'Top Red Lion' It didn't occur to me that it was ritualistic or witchcraft, I just assumed it was sicko's who enjoyed killing small animals. I even remember the local teenagers daring each other to go into the woods behind the Riding School on Halifax Road and walk (or run) throught the woods alone, coming out behind the 'top red'.

Doesn't anyone else remember ???

when i went to eniskilling in ireland fishing the was this little island in the middle of the lake with an abandoned ruiend house and loads of goats skulls and rope and stuff like that when we got bake to the digs we wer stayin at i asked a bloke hu lives out there and he said it would just be some fisherman messin about but sumthing dint seem right about it.

OMG Greno woods?
I love that place

when i went to eniskilling in ireland fishing the was this little island in the middle of the lake with an abandoned ruiend house and loads of goats skulls and rope and stuff like that when we got bake to the digs we wer stayin at i asked a bloke hu lives out there and he said it would just be some fisherman messin about but sumthing dint seem right about it.

I went fishing some years ago and stayed near to Enniskillen aswell (i'm sure your spelling was a mistake and not a poor political joke!!) We too saw quite a lot of sheep skulls, we were told that the farmers would slaugther the animals and leave the skull hung in a nearby tree close to the guts etc that had been removed from the sheep to attract carrion that would eat the remains. The farmer took the meat on for sale or private consumpion. We were dissapointed with the answer but truth is sometimes more boring than fiction otherwise Stephen King would be a lorry driver and Mrs Marple just a lonly cold pensioner !!!!

There are some dark arts activities in those woods, yes. Came to a head about a year ago when there was a lot of horse ripping going on round there.

There's also a lot of raves!

My house more or less backs directly on to Greno woods, and for some time, I was hearing odd, breathless noises coming from the scrub land there.

After one too many nights trying to figure out what the noises were, I resolved to go looking for them.So I packed my trusty torch and headed off into the inky black woods....

I found a little path thet leads down from the main path there, and I followed it down, through some pretty thick and inhospitable bush, untill I reached a fork in the path.As I stopped and listened, I heard that familiar noise once more, but much closer this time, and I pointed my torch towards the source of the noise...

In the halo of the torch's dim beam, I saw two, half naked men, who looked like they were trying to play leap-frog, but the one on top couldnt quite make it.....

I decided they were obviously part of some weird ritualistic sect, and dropping the torch, I fled back to my house, breathless and scared, but strangely intrigued....

There's also a lot of raves!

:cool: you cant beat greno woods on a summers night.. ;)

:cool: you cant beat greno woods on a summers night.. ;)


Yeah, some of them are very good!

Yeah, some of them are very good!
I was barred from attending by my brother.. on the rare occasions I went along it was a guarantee that the police would arrive within half an hour :hihi:

I was a curse on the party :P

no it doesn't me either :rolleyes:

I may be a moderator Ant however I am also a witch and am entitled to my opinion and also as part of said network am obliged to speak out against blatant ignorance on the subject which you are showing in great abundance. Whether you are a christian or not you are subject to it's dogma and teachings unless you live in some cut off commune or outside the British Isles in a country who religious values differ to the UK.

as a Moderator and as a Witch, can i ask what a Witch actually does? ands which job do you find most fulfilling :), seriously though what does a witch do?

I was barred from attending by my brother.. on the rare occasions I went along it was a guarantee that the police would arrive within half an hour :hihi:

I was a curse on the party :P


so thats why they turned up it was propably because it was so close to the road though needs to be down in the clearing realy did you go to sheff stock

did you go to sheff stock

No Sheffstock were rude enough to hold the event on the same day as my festival (http://www.middlewoodfestival.ik.com/) so i was a little busy.