Have you noticed the number of buildings that were unaccessible because their owners said it was impossible as it was listed building are now miraculously accessible since the act came in. So many places I went with my family but had to sit outside while they went in are now ramped, with lifts etc.. I wish I'd kept all those letters and leaflets to show them now what hypocrites they were.

I know what you mean! I worked at the City Council for years and we tried to get The Old Town Hall to made accesible.... we kept hitting against the old chestnut, of listed buildings, etc... Now look! It's beautiful (from the outside, not been inside) and they've done a great job. It's such a shame it's taken this long.

The inside of the town hall has had some improvements although obviously having a Lord mayor who was in a wheelchair probably helped a bit.
Listed buildings though can be a real pain to adapt as you can't just start interfering with the actual structure such as widening doorways or putting in large lift shafts. If any improvements though are done well like the town hall exterior ramping then I don't see a problem

A lot of the buildings I've been refused access to have been large Buildings such as the York Museum. They have wide doorways already and often a lift which is a freight life but could have been adapted also there are wheelchair lifts that go up steps without altering the structure drastically. But there was always excuses. Now the ramps and lifts are in, wheelchair lifts etc.. City Hall has improved its access with the refit but it didn't alter the building drastically. I've been to a National trust place on Sunday that five years ago had virtually no access but now with a few wooden ramps and some wheelchair llifts I got round. It just took a little imagination.

Shame this miraculous change hasnt extended to other types of disabilities.

People do seem to focus on wheelchair users. I think one of the most neglected groups are people with partial sight. I had a friend with partial sight and I was on the Universities building committee and it was extremely hard to get them to realise that partial sighted people have different needs from those who are blind.

People do seem to focus on wheelchair users. I think one of the most neglected groups are people with partial sight. I had a friend with partial sight and I was on the Universities building committee and it was extremely hard to get them to realise that partial sighted people have different needs from those who are blind.

And the same could also be said for people with learning difficulties and/or communications disorders be this chronic stammering & stuttering or whatever.

Yes but that doesn't require a physical change in buildings. It requires more patience and understanding from people and is harder to legislate for.

Yes but that doesn't require a physical change in buildings. It requires more patience and understanding from people and is harder to legislate for.

Think this could be a serious error of judgment. Have you given any thought to all the security entry phones which require people to speak and announce who they are before being allowed entry in to the building just as one example.

Well yes this is a problem at my sons former primary school. To gain entrance you have to buzz for entry. The box is brown so cannot be seen by partially sighted, a difficult height for wheelchair users, and obviously a severe problem if you have hearing or speech difficulties and the gate is too heavy to open on your own if in wheelchair and coming out the button to open the gate is too high for anyone under 5ft or in a wheelchair. This was pointed out to them and they said they would do something (this was when my son joined Nursery). Now 7 years later absolutely nothing has been done, not even a repaint of the box. I was thinking more of large historic public buildings which are listed. I wasn't aware of any having entry phones. I'm sorry if you think I am ignoring your problems, I didn't mean to.

There is a group that works to inform and help the city council on disabled issues and access it is called the Access Liason group and as several of the members are disabled they can speak on a variety of issues with first hand experience. Although this group does sterling work it has been commented on that although there are plenty of disabled people in the city there are not many who are prepared to be more active and involve themselves with such groups.
The City Hall refurbishment had to alter several things after a guided tour was organised for the ALG and the new hotel St Paul's also was examine for example The group is involved in the on-going refurbishment and development of many public buildings and council run places and things do happen if some-times slowly.

What group is this? Where were they when I was looking for someone to allow me access to my childrens school and parents evenings? I've had 8 years of discussion with LEA school governors, local councillors, disabillity minister, and disabled rights organisations. Only when the act came in did I not have to remind the schools that I needed access even though we had established my rights several years before.

The access group have been in existance for quite some time, years in fact and although I' am unsure of their ability to advise when it comes to schools it may be worth your while to contact Brian Messider who is one of the access officers working for the council.
I've often thought that if buildings and services were designed with the disabled in mind then EVERYONE would be able to use them, unfortunately though the things that would help a disabled person seem to be added on in a bit of a hit and miss after thought or worse still there is no thought process at all, if anyone knows the disabled toilets in Crystal Peaks market you'll know what I mean. [The problems there were rectified by the way]

I've been saying for years that if places were made accessible it would help everyone. But it's only since the act came into force that there's been any action - even now it is, as you say, often an add-on or afterthought.

I could go on and on ..... but i'm tired! LOL

It's a problem isn't it? It's easy to become a bore on the subject. I got more militant when my children were born because I hated having to explain to them I couldn't go with them. A case in point was the Bradford Media Museum where they had a childrens workshop up a flight of stairs, or the Chester Roman museum where the childrens special room for dressing up was up a narrow flight of stairs. I didn't see them dressed in the roman gear. I've seen very few of their classrooms and parents meetings are always a nightmare. Why should my children be second class citizens? Its so nice to go out places these days and not have to worry if I'm going to be able to go with the children even if I have to have 4 different kinds of wheelchair.

It's a problem isn't it? It's easy to become a bore on the subject. I got more militant when my children were born because I hated having to explain to them I couldn't go with them. A case in point was the Bradford Media Museum where they had a childrens workshop up a flight of stairs, or the Chester Roman museum where the childrens special room for dressing up was up a narrow flight of stairs. I didn't see them dressed in the roman gear. I've seen very few of their classrooms and parents meetings are always a nightmare. Why should my children be second class citizens? Its so nice to go out places these days and not have to worry if I'm going to be able to go with the children even if I have to have 4 different kinds of wheelchair.

And of course, it's soooo (!) convenient to take all four chairs with you when you go out,(just in case you aren't sure which one you'll need, for the particular barriers, when you finally get to your destination!! :roll: ) as well as all the trantlements you need for the kids, partner, picnic basket, etc, *

It's crazy, cos you have to plan everything like a swining military campaign... (well I'm sure I don't need to tell you what fun and games it can be, to take a trip out as a wheelchair user! )

You think... "dare I have this drink, to stave off this terrible heat? cos If I do, I'll need the loo when i get there.. but... will there BE an accessible loo, when I get there? will I have to spend the visit in sheer discomfort, needing the loo, but can't go. :roll: " ( A bit like my nightmare train journey back from london last year... No wheelchair facilities on the train, and I can't walk/ balance well enough to get all the way to the loo, especially in a shaking carriage... sitting there, desperate for the loo for four-and-a half-hours all the way back to Sheffield! :grr: )

**do i need narrow and nippy chair, cos i'll be using tight spaces.

do I use heavyweight chair, cos it's rough terrain?

do I use chair with extra power, cos it's shocking steep hills...

do I need manual chair, because there's no way a powerchair will do the incline of that ramp without toppling over?

Yes finding what wheelchair will fit is a problem but there is a lot more info on websites as to what the terrain is like. When in doubt I take the big one and a push one. When you're a parent every trip out is like a military campaign anyway, whether you're disabled or not. I'm waiting for them to invent a scooter that is like a Thunderbird i.e you can undo certain parts and a smaller one emerges when needed. I too have had the train experience from London, emerging at Sheffield in an extremely agitated state. There should be something we can do legally about this surely?

Yes finding what wheelchair will fit is a problem but there is a lot more info on websites as to what the terrain is like. When in doubt I take the big one and a push one. When you're a parent every trip out is like a military campaign anyway, whether you're disabled or not. I'm waiting for them to invent a scooter that is like a Thunderbird i.e you can undo certain parts and a smaller one emerges when needed. I too have had the train experience from London, emerging at Sheffield in an extremely agitated state. There should be something we can do legally about this surely?

unfortunately, things like the station are covered currently in the DDA, but as I understand it, the actual train and facilities on it aren't yet covered. (Douglas J might be the best person to consult on the ins and outs of this)

Transport providers are now covered. Since 4th December 2006, Part 3 of the DDA has applied to buses and coaches (scheduled and leisure), private hire vehicles, taxis, trains, trams, light rail, vehicles used on modes of guided transport, rental vehicles and breakdown recovery services - which is just about everything except aeroplanes and boats.

I have had a few hairy moments with planes too, usually because although I tell them several times over they never seem to talk to the people on the ground and getting on or off the plane always results in frantic phoning around.

Transport providers are now covered. Since 4th December 2006, Part 3 of the DDA has applied to buses and coaches (scheduled and leisure), private hire vehicles, taxis, trains, trams, light rail, vehicles used on modes of guided transport, rental vehicles and breakdown recovery services - which is just about everything except aeroplanes and boats.

Thank you for that info, Douglas. That's very useful to know.

Does this mean I can now insist that the football club supply coach(es) with access for away matches? I have considered the Club's policy to be discriminatory for some time:-

At the moment, the club lays on "away coaches" for able-bodied/ ambulant fans, as a matter of course, but does not lay on, to my knowledge, accessible ones.

If the disabled supporters want a wheelchair accessible coach, to go to an away match, we have to hire our own. this means that the disabled supporters a) cannot travel to every away match they wish to attend. (it also means that, because of the expense of hiring the coach, we can only hire it out two or three times a season, and it has to be a democratic vote from all the members, as to which matches it is hired for, meaning many potentially miss out on matches which they want to go to, because of the restriction)

It also means they are at a disadvantage in accumulating loyalty points to obtain tickets for away matches (or specialist matches like cup finals), and obtaining discounts/ special offers in the shop etc, because each attendance at an away match = an award of X amount of loyalty points. The more loyalty points you get, the higher up the list you go for tickets, the more discount or special offers you can get.

I don't think this is a fair situation, at all.

Thank you for that info, Douglas. That's very useful to know.

Does this mean I can now insist that the football club supply coach(es) with access for away matches? I have considered the Club's policy to be discriminatory for some time:-

At the moment, the club lays on "away coaches" for able-bodied/ ambulant fans, as a matter of course, but does not lay on, to my knowledge, accessible ones.

If the disabled supporters want a wheelchair accessible coach, to go to an away match, we have to hire our own. this means that the disabled supporters a) cannot travel to every away match they wish to attend. (it also means that, because of the expense of hiring the coach, we can only hire it out two or three times a season, and it has to be a democratic vote from all the members, as to which matches it is hired for, meaning many potentially miss out on matches which they want to go to, because of the restriction)

It also means they are at a disadvantage in accumulating loyalty points to obtain tickets for away matches (or specialist matches like cup finals), and obtaining discounts/ special offers in the shop etc, because each attendance at an away match = an award of X amount of loyalty points. The more loyalty points you get, the higher up the list you go for tickets, the more discount or special offers you can get.

I don't think this is a fair situation, at all.

Hi PT,

Regarding your last paragraph, I'd have thought that this would be discrimination under the "service provision" part of the DDA, as well as the discrimination regarding transport. Perhaps you need to give Douglas a ring at work.

Hi PT,

Regarding your last paragraph, I'd have thought that this would be discrimination under the "service provision" part of the DDA, as well as the discrimination regarding transport. Perhaps you need to give Douglas a ring at work.

OOh, dear! I don't know about that.. I'd like to, but I've got 2 cases of discrimination on with him, already! lol

If I did that, I might need my own dedicated worker, and I don't think the Law Centre's funding would stretch to that!! :lol: :lol:

OOh, dear! I don't know about that.. I'd like to, but I've got 2 cases of discrimination on with him, already! lol

If I did that, I might need my own dedicated worker, and I don't think the Law Centre's funding would stretch to that!! :lol: :lol:

:hihi::hihi: best take them one at a time then, eh?