When I was young I was visable, noticed and acceepted it as my due.
When I married I had 3 children close together and was busy pushing prams, carrying shopping and keeping a job down I became invisable.
The children grew up and the same neighbours/ aquaintences (male) that had passed by began to offer lifts, listen to what I said, jumped to attention when I joined their company.
I was still the same person but better wrapped.
Now I am older I have become invisable again, still the same inside.
Is it as Shakespeare said All the men and women are merely players on a stage.

Hi Hazel,

Yes, I think it was from 'As You Like It'.

Some roles in society do seem to be more visible than others. I hate identifying myself by my job for that reason - I'm an individual who happens to do that job at teh moment, rather than me BEING that role.

Joe

For the last few years I've felt invisible and it's mainly because nobody listens when I talk. I feel uncomfortable in a group of 3 or more and people talk over me constantly.

Maybe I've lost my place and need to find it again. For me I think it's down to assertiveness and having a certain physical presence (not really talking about physical size) about you that allows you to be noticed or heard by other people.

This is something I personally need to work on. Being extremely soft spoken doesn't help at all though. :?

I lost myself for years after losing my mother, my business and my health in the mid-1990s.

It's arguable whether I've found myself yet, but I'm a lot more together than I was. So much depends upon self-belief. It can be difficult to hold one's own in groups of people - partially because people can be rude, so don't think it's all to do with your personality!

I have the advantage of being loud - think a clean shaven Brian Blessed, when I'm in good form - to the degree that I have to restrain my voice sometimes. Also, if you 'umm' and 'err' a lot (which is another problem I sometimes have) you can give space for people to jump in whilst you're talking.

Joe

Originally posted by Pauly
For the last few years I've felt invisible and it's mainly because nobody listens when I talk. I feel uncomfortable in a group of 3 or more and people talk over me constantly.

Maybe I've lost my place and need to find it again. For me I think it's down to assertiveness and having a certain physical presence (not really talking about physical size) about you that allows you to be noticed or heard by other people.

This is something I personally need to work on. Being extremely soft spoken doesn't help at all though. :?

I know what you mean Pauly, but you shouldn't have to fight to be heard. I think it sometimes better to stay quiet and listen, and then take what you find to be of use from what other people say (a lot of the time people are spouting crap anyway).

Are you basing your value on the amount of attention that other people give you? Craving their attention? If so, perhaps you're giving your power away.

A time to talk and a time to be quiet ...

Originally posted by Jamie
Are you basing your value on the amount of attention that other people give you? Craving their attention?

I've been thinking and I reckon a main part of it is the desire to be accepted and the fear of being pushed aside and dismissed. This probably comes from 7 years of psychological bullying as a child, never being included with the in-crowd and it's just a confidence/assertiveness issue.

Sounds like I'm making excuses and maybe I am but that's where I feel it originally comes from.

I sometimes get the idea (as the Romans thought) that the Gods are up above using us as puppets pulling strings and destroying at a whim all our carefully thought out plans. ie the tidal waves. perhaps we are like ants franticly building our lives to be destroyed at a flick.
And I don't believe in God--------- seems like I only believe in the mythical ones.

Hazel

Originally posted by Pauly
For the last few years I've felt invisible and it's mainly because nobody listens when I talk. I feel uncomfortable in a group of 3 or more and people talk over me constantly.

Maybe I've lost my place and need to find it again. For me I think it's down to assertiveness and having a certain physical presence (not really talking about physical size) about you that allows you to be noticed or heard by other people.

This is something I personally need to work on. Being extremely soft spoken doesn't help at all though. :?


I know what you mean, Pauly.

I've always found talking to/in big groups of people difficult - one-to-one I'm fine, talking to a couple of other people ok, but more than that and I find my voice gets lost. I tend to speak quietly anyway, and I think in groups, people literally don't HEAR me.

I've made a big effort more recently to talk louder, and to look people directly in the eye when talking in a group. I'm also less willing to shut up if someone else tries to talk at the same time. This seems to be working quite well. I used to be reluctant to say anything much in a group, but I've been working on my confidence, and find this easier now. I try to have the attitude that what I'm saying is interesting, worth hearing, etc, certainly just as valid as what anyone else is saying.

I think a lot of it is confidence, so maybe that's the way to go?

I've lost over a stone in weight since last Christmas, and I know that has boosted my confidence tremendously. I'm very aware that other people are taking me more seriously now, but more importantly I'm valuing myself more and this seems to be naturally leading to me being more assertive.

Good luck with it, Pauly

Cheers,

StarSparkle :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Pauly
I've been thinking and I reckon a main part of it is the desire to be accepted and the fear of being pushed aside and dismissed. This probably comes from 7 years of psychological bullying as a child, never being included with the in-crowd and it's just a confidence/assertiveness issue.

Sounds like I'm making excuses and maybe I am but that's where I feel it originally comes from.

You're probably not alone in this Pauly, it's something a lot of people struggle with I'm sure, me included at times.

I think it's good if you can look at yourself and try to identify what the crux of the problem is. Also, talking about this stuff to selected close friends / confidants may help ...

Oh and what is the 'in-crowd' ... me thinks a pile of sheep all trying to be like each other without an ounce of individuality amongst them ... do you aspire to be like that !!!!?

There was an 'in-crowd' at salsa in Leeds last night ... it's like a closed shop up there and some of them are quite snobbish ... I feel quite sorry from people like that.

{edit}

I should add that not everyone in Leeds is a salsa snob, just a few, and then that's just my perception. I hope I don't upset any online salsa peeps (unless you're a salsa snob, in which case, I am indifferent, and please don't dance with me).

With regard to 'in crowds' I have to say I liked Groucho Marx's comment about not wanting to belong to a club that would have me as a member....;)

Insular groups can be quite painful if you really want to 'belong' - the only thing I'd say is that those people probably look at other 'in crowds' and want to belong as well. It was C S Lewis who referred to social groups as being like 'onions' - you belong to a group and then discover another group that you want to belong to - a bit like the layers of an onion.

Be yourself and deal with people who make you happy to be you - not people who're worrying all the time about fitting in. It's nothing new - even the Rolling Stones sang about it 40 years ago in the song 'Satisfaction' ('you can't be a man 'cos you don't smoke the same cigarettes as me')

Joe

Originally posted by Pauly
For the last few years I've felt invisible and it's mainly because nobody listens when I talk. I feel uncomfortable in a group of 3 or more and people talk over me constantly.

Maybe I've lost my place and need to find it again.

Pauly, the Sheffield Forum is one crowd that will always listen to what you have to say mate! :thumbsup:

I have completely lost myself for the past three Christmases.

My Dad died seven years ago and I think I tried too hard to keep myself under control, until I eventually snapped.

Then I sought help. I am on medication which keeps me OK for most of the time, but it always comes back at Christmastime.

I am ashamed to say that I hit the bottle for three or four days this time, and made things bad for my family.

I so owe them a good Christmas, but will start to dread it as usual when I start seeing the Christmas stuff in the shops in September.

Originally posted by Lestat
Pauly, the Sheffield Forum is one crowd that will always listen to what you have to say mate! :thumbsup:
errrrr what?:suspect:

Seems quite understandable to me.

hi pauly,maybe you need a change of scene,if your freinds arnt listening to you then they are either ignorant or they have heard it all before and they may be stuck in a rut,
do you go to the same venues with the same crowd? if so why not suggest a change, if your predictable ,change and do some thing out of character,become interesting again,but personally if i had to work on it to be involved i would change my venue and go out and meet different people,bieng out with the same crowd some times can turn stale
it becomes mundane after a while ,you know who drinks what,who will be the first to get tippsy,who tries to get out of buying a round etc etc.
if they dont except you for who you are and appreciate your company have a day off, go some where different, absence makes the heart grow fonder as they say,explore your horizons and im sure you will find genuine people in sheffield who will make you welcome and are prepared to listen to what you have to contribute,good luck......

Originally posted by miniminch
errrrr what?:suspect:

What is so difficult to understand? :loopy:

I'm sure this has already been pointed out but the famous passage is from As You Like it. It is Jaques' famous Seven ages of man speech.

It starts:

All the world's a stage,
and all the men and women on it mearly players.
They have their enterences and their exits,
and in his time each man plays many parts.

(This is broadly as I remember but it may not be word perfect. Apologies to W. Shakespeare for any inacuracies:D

Then it goes
first the baby mewling and pewlling in his mothers arms,
second the the schoolboy with his satchel, and his shiney morning face plodding his weary way to school.

Not sure about the rest think it's
"Then the lovers with their dreams------

Anybody supply the rest? or correct mine ?

Originally posted by hazel
When I was young I was visable, noticed and acceepted it as my due.
When I married I had 3 children close together and was busy pushing prams, carrying shopping and keeping a job down I became invisable.
The children grew up and the same neighbours/ aquaintences (male) that had passed by began to offer lifts, listen to what I said, jumped to attention when I joined their company.
I was still the same person but better wrapped.
Now I am older I have become invisable again, still the same inside.
Is it as Shakespeare said All the men and women are merely players on a stage.

Sadly it is all in the fickle way people judge you for your 'look'.

Both myself & a collegue have discussed this at length recently.
We both worked for years in the NHS.
Both lost a couple of stone together & dropped a few inches on the beer-belly. Both similar age & height.
Both noticed how many co-workers would walk past you on the corridor & seemingly ignore you (when u was a lardy)
BUT ... Lose a few stone & tone up & suddenly you 'appeared acceptable' enough for their attention / conversation.

It's a sad world full of people obsessed with image.

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
Sadly it is all in the fickle way people judge you for your 'look'.

Both myself & a collegue have discussed this at length recently.
We both worked for years in the NHS.
Both lost a couple of stone together & dropped a few inches on the beer-belly. Both similar age & height.
Both noticed how many co-workers would walk past you on the corridor & seemingly ignore you (when u was a lardy)
BUT ... Lose a few stone & tone up & suddenly you 'appeared acceptable' enough for their attention / conversation.

It's a sad world full of people obsessed with image.

I've never been a sylph but have lost weight in recent months due to walking more and eating less.

I've yet to notice any differences in the way that friends and colleagues treat me, but have noticed that I get more smiles, pleases, thank yous, yes Sirs and No Sirs from strangers I meet on the street.

Perhaps I work with people aho are less image sensitive - after all, we're all in IT...:)

Joe

Originally posted by Pauly
I've been thinking and I reckon a main part of it is the desire to be accepted and the fear of being pushed aside and dismissed. This probably comes from 7 years of psychological bullying as a child, never being included with the in-crowd and it's just a confidence/assertiveness issue.

Sounds like I'm making excuses and maybe I am but that's where I feel it originally comes from.

Pauly, you sound a lot like me.

I don't mind being in a group of people, but in a big group I'll usually hover in the background and not really take part in directing where the conversation goes.

I think I've eventually figured out that I wouldn't really like being in the "in crowd" anyway, and prefer having a certain detachment and just observing the way peope behave.

Originally posted by hazel
Anybody supply the rest? or correct mine ?

Mmmmmm a bit of Shakespear for a Friday morning...


William Shakespeare - All the world's a stage (from As You Like It 2/7)

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon's mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slipper'd pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side,
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

Thanks nomme,

Took me back a long time that quote.
I only remembered the first bit anyway, but always thought it very apt, especially as I can identify with the latter stages now in a feminine way.

Hazel

I studied this play for A Level English and saw it performed live at the Crucible a few years back. Una Stubbs was in it. Did anyone else see the production? It was supposed (by people who know about these things) to be one of the best Shakespearean productions for years.