So, we have another case of a young boy being savaged by a pit bull terrier! it goes on and on, one after another. Isn't it time to muzzle these dangerous animals, before somone else is seriously injured or killed?

The owners obviously cannot, or will not control them, the authorities do not seem to care that these vicious dogs will attack without provocation even when on a lead held by their owners, shouldn't they be put down and banned from this country altogether?

The people who own them are not concerned and regard owning one as a status symbol, it is similar to a person carrying a lethal weapon, knife or gun, something to inflict pain and suffering and in some cases death on an unsuspecting public.

Get rid of them I say, before any more vulnerable, innocent, people fall victim to these powerfull beasts from hell and yet again we are faced with the images of shocking injuries to all and sundry who cannot go about their business without being pounced upon.

xxxxxxxxxxx

It depends on the circumstances I'd say first off.

I'll give you a scenario:
A child has been taunting a neighbours dog(s) for months. Hitting the fence, throwing stones, sticks, rocks at it/them. Basically doing nything to rile it! Maybe even used a catapult or BB gun to hurt the animal(s). The dog gets loose one day when the same child that has been taunting the animal is walking by. The dog(s) set upon the child (a natural instinct when harm like this has occured). Who's at fault?

There are always 2 sides to a story. I don't believe a dog is naturally bad, no matter of the breed. Any dog can bite, just the bigger/more powerful once do more damage. Sometimes the owners should be punished (if they've raised the dog to be the violent) sometimes they shouldn't.

It's all a matter of seeing all sides of the picture, not justthe black and white section.

xxxxxxxxxxx

I don't disagree with you HuwJ.

xxxxxxxxxxx

Well punishing parents for kids mis behaviour is another subject, but remember dogs don't have grudges so attacking some kid that was previously tormenting it is no excuse.
I love dogs' i used to breed German shepherds and now i have a 4 month old Boxer.
Dogs should be secured at all times and there is no excuse.
If you have a dog that is likely to bite then letting this dog loose is moraly wrong both for the dog and the unfortunate person that comes across it.
As a cyclist i sometimes have problems with the odd dog roaming loose and on a few occations i have been attacked but managed to out run them on every occation up to now.
There is a rouge Jack Russell at Storrs, and an Alsation at Bradfild and recently a dog at Edgemount called Wragg, who always chases me down when it see,s me.
I complained to the owner and her answer was he does it to all cyclists and he will only bite if you kick him.
The point is that its natural to kick out at a dog if your on a bike to stop it from biting yet she expects every cyclist to stop so the dog can suss you out then quietly go on your way.
This dog should not be out, pure and simple and if my dog bit anyone then i would have to visit my insurers because i am responsible for its actions and that means never let out without a lead, muzzled if needed and a dog scoop to clear its mess.
I practice what i preach and remember its not the dogs fault, its the owner and it does not matter if the dog is vicious as a dog behaves how its brought up and the solution to a vicious dog is make sure its not a threat to anyone else.

Originally posted by The Cycleracer
Well punishing parents for kids mis behaviour is another subject, but remember dogs don't have grudges so attacking some kid that was previously tormenting it is no excuse.
Sorry Paul, have to disagree with you there mate.
Dogs that are constantly tormented by a child DO hold grudges against that child and many others.

My mothers little Yorkshire Terrier used to get tormented and picked up by it's hair, from a young autistic child that used to live next door to my mum. one day she snapped at the child (not actually touching him, but making it clear she wanted him away). Now EVERYTIME she see the same child (who is now 4 yrs older and hasn't lived next door to her for over 2 years) she cowers, growls and snaps at him. She also cowers and growls at other children now too. She never goes to bite, but she does remember.

I could give other examples of other dogs doing the same, so I'm afraid dogs DO bear grudges and DO remember mate.

Dogs mauling kids is just one of those kinds of stories that gets into the papers for sensationalism, just like when a kid drowns playing in a flooded quarry or lake.

When you look at the problem nationally, how many kids play with dogs or in water DON'T get killed or mauled? I am sure the figures are minimal.

However, I personally think vicious dogs should not be allowed out without a lead or muzzle, even in their owners own gardens. But the kind of people who own these kind of animals tend not to care about such things.

There was a woman in our local paper a couple of weeks ago bleating on about how her dog got run over and killed and how it was the road to blame - not the fact she was exercising it on a school field without a lead and it ran off.

Aren't dogs related to wolves? Surely there is something in their instinct that leads them to kill. I suppose in reality dogs have an incredible level of restraint.

Whilst I agree with Hal on most of his points I cannot agree that ALL owners don't give a toss or are not concerned over their pets behaviour.

Also I don't think it is completely down to the owners either - these are so at heart wild animals. The likes of Pit Bulls, staffies and rotweilers were not bred to keep the kids happy.

I witness a small attack of a child in skegness - I say small because the owner was sensible enough to have a muzzle on the dog - but it didn't stop the dog barking and lunging in the face of a five year old boy waiting to cross the road next to it. Understandably the child was upset but the owner didn't just walk away he stayed with the child and his mother to make sure he wasn't hurt and dicsiplined the animal.

Now that may be to save his own skin from being sued - but I personally don't take that as an uncaring owner.

Saying that I have had something similar happen from a labrador because it was abused as a pup and for some reason has a problem with the reflection from peoples glasses - wish they had warned me.

I don't like these types of animals, I know there are responsible owners out there - but sometimes the dog has other ideas.

Moon

Originally posted by DaBouncer
Sorry Paul, have to disagree with you there mate.
Dogs that are constantly tormented by a child DO hold grudges against that child and many others.

Thinking about it Kirk your probably right but the onus is still on the owner to secure a dangerous dog, which i think you might agree.
I,m not against dangerous dogs as long as they are kept well away from other people, but dogs i encounter on my rides are not exactly dangerous but they become a nuisence when you have to avoid being bit by them when they quite clearly should not be out without a lead.

Oh no youre bringing back awful memories! My little dog had to be put down for biting my dad. He was the lovliest little dog and you all know im more of a cat fan but i loved my little dog. He didnt actually bite anyone outside the family as we did a good job of keeping him under control just by warning people off. All in all he bit my boyfriend, dad, mum, brother and 2 of my friends but with dad it resulted in him having to go to hospital so the very next day we took him to the vets and asked if there was anything they could do. The vet told us there was nothing he could do and we would have to have him put to sleep in the interests of public safety.

I think its terribly selfish to put ourselves above dogs on the chain of importance. What on earth gives us the right to decide when or if they should die? I agree it was dangerous keeping him (although i used to hug him all the time and he was fine with me) im sure in this day and age there are things that can be done other than killing these animals.

My dog had a proper problem psychologically so maybe more of a case can be made for putting him down (although i miss him like hell and still think he should be here today) but in other cases dogs will only bite if theyre taught to protect owners/property or if theyre provoked.

Humans go round killing and harming each other all the time but as soon as a dog does it theres an outcry like we feel so threatened by these creatures we have to kill them all.

It isnt nice what he did to the kid but we never hear the full story when it comes to these incidents. The dogs just get killed off without a second thought.

Its not fair and its very self righteous of us as humans to see ourselves as so much more important - especially when we do more harm to the world than any other (non-microscopic) species.

I can understand your view there Kittykat but surely you don't seriously think that dogs should be on the same chain of importance as humans.
Its us humans that keep the world going round with new technology, inventions and so on, and yes some would also say that humans are destroying our planet and in some cases that would be true, but if it was'nt for humans we would still be living in caves.

Originally posted by The Cycleracer
Thinking about it Kirk your probably right but the onus is still on the owner to secure a dangerous dog, which i think you might agree.
Agreed, there is no excuse for an owner not securing ANY dog!

Originally posted by The Cycleracer
I can understand your view there Kittykat but surely you don't seriously think that dogs should be on the same chain of importance as humans.
Its us humans that keep the world going round with new technology, inventions and so on, and yes some would also say that humans are destroying our planet and in some cases that would be true, but if it was'nt for humans we would still be living in caves.

Theres nothing wrong with caves if you dont know any better. I bet theyre quite cosy and im sure other animals dont care whether weve invented all these things since them all they want to do is run round, hunt, play and eat. Its only us who really benefits from all all this new technology.

ive just been reading every ones posts and in a way i think both sides are right. but all i can say is any anmimal weather it is a dog a cat horse a donkey can be dangerous. alot of people have refered to fighting dogs and say they can be the worse.

my cousin at the moment owns 1 staffie and 3 miniture english bull terriers and 3 standard english bull terriers and she has 2 little boys and i can assure you that not 1 of her dogs has EVER in 6 years snarled growled bit or barked at her children and the staffie they own is nearly 10. from my cousins dog i have received my dog stella.

now stella will bounce of the walls in the house and jump all over my she is a very exitable dog and she knows what she can and cant do. now behind my house there is a filed where i noiw take her and the kids from my road play on there and i know i could let her off the lead and she would maybe go up and have a sniff at the kids and see what they are up to but at all times her feet remain on the floor and she is always looking at me if i call her back she will come.

but then for example there is an lady on my road who owns a bordert collie that dog is pure evil! and has now been put down due to old age. i remember that dog when i was little i had a run in with this dog, i was just walking down the road and the lady was coming out of her garden and the dog flew out and pulled towards me and he bit me in my stomach, now i had not prevoked that dog. so to me that proves that its not just fighting dogs that can be nasty

Going back onto pitbulls,
I was walking to college the other day and this pitbull terrier came out of a garden, he had a studded harness on and I have to confess it terrified me! He started walking towards me and there was no owner in sight, as it turned out, he was absolutely lovely, he followed me all the way to college at my heel (not that I wanted him too).

I do believe there are some dogs that are bred to fight/kill and pit bulls were traditionally those sort of dogs, however, they obivously can be trained not to be so aggressive.

I think the solution rather than culling them and banning them, is to bring back the dog license!
There should be regulations for people who want to have a dog, to apply for a licence and for that licence to be taken off them should the dog not be receiving proper training.
At the end of the day, without training, dogs can be dangerous animals, like a smaller scale example of people driving cars without training.

Bring back the Dog Owner's Licence!

there are not that many pitbul terriers left in the uk, its more staffordshire bull terriers but people get them mixed up. staffis's have a shorter snout than pit bulls. i have 2 dogs who are the most loving. my youngest has never bitten me but i have had an injury from his teeth when i actually caught him and he was petrified as he knew what he had done.
my dogs love my baby and are very protective of her but i would NEVER ever trust them fully with her as dogs are very temperamental.
this time of year is when you hear more about dog attacks as its very hot and the dogs get a bit funny in the heat. i would never let any kids play with my dogs on a hot summer day as they could just snap.
owners need to take more interest in the safety of others and other dogs. how many dogs aattck other dogs in the park but the owners do not put a muzzle on? if they aattck other dogs they could easily turn on a human

there are not that many pitbul terriers left in the uk, its more staffordshire bull terriers but people get them mixed up.

Sorry Savbaby, my mistake! It was probably that then - although I'm sure my point was still valid, if yours are a little temperamental!

By the way, they sound lovely, and you sound like a very responsible dog owner!

Take care,
Lottie

The Dangerous Dogs Act requires all American Pitbull Terriers to be muzzled in public. There are few genuine specimens from the bona fide fighting lines, such as 'Red Nose' [nothing to do with Comic Relief, believe me] in this country. People are sold American Staffordshire Terriers [show version of APBT], crossbreeds, and in some instances 'Irish' Staffordshire Bull Terriers [leggier, and more athletic-looking than the 'show' Stafford, and bred to resemble the old 'Pompey' type fighting Staffords] under the guise of American Pitbull Terriers.

As to whether English Bull Terriers and Staffordshire Bull Terriers may still be considered 'fighting dogs'; they are bred for show points by most breeders, not for fighting ability. Most dogs used in dog fighting today are 'Irish' Staffords and APBTs, neither of which, in this country, come even close to the ferocity of the dogs on the American circuit. It is true that, in the 80s, in this country, some English Bull Terriers and Staffordshire Bull Terriers were fought illegally. Some notable crosses, such as 'Stormer' [half English Bull Terrier, half APBT], and 'Dillinger' [a Stafford/ Irish Stafford] emerged to gain notoriety. However, in the main the 'show' version of the Stafford and the English Bull Terrier are not used as fighting dogs, and should not be considered as such. Neither breed is consistently bred for anything other than show points, so they cannot compete with APBTs in the main, even the 'inferior' imports used by criminals in this country.

Having said that, English Bull Terriers [we own one], and Staffordshire Bull Terriers [we used to own one] are still capable of giving an awesome account of themselves in a fight with other dogs. Their aggression, however, is confined largely to other dogs. Check with the RSPCA, if you do not believe this, but both EBTs and Staffies are extremely low on the list re attacks on humans. Such attacks are so rare as to be practically unheard of. Not so with Doberman Pinchers, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, even the Golden Retriever.

Please do not confuse English Bull Terriers and Staffordshire Bull Terriers with 'fighting dogs'. They require supervision near other animals, I am the first to admit, but they do not constitute a threat to people.

I have read every post here and was about to 'go off on one', then i read timo's last post. I think what timo said is spot on.
I own a Stafford and i have to say she is the softest, loyalist dog i have ever known. She does what she is told, when she is told.
She will only get angry when being attacked, when she will do what any dog does and retaliate.
Whenever i take her down to the shops the local kids are all over her and the only danger they are in is drowning in all the slobber she unleashes on them! :hihi:

In the past 10 days my Stafford has been attacked three times by the same dog while out jogging with me. It was the same dog all three times and all the stupid 'twit' who was walking the dog (one of two dogs) did, was shout it. She then turns away and leaves it snarling away at me and my dog.
I should point out that her dog has a muzzle of some sort on but this isn't the point. Her dog is attacking with real intent and my Stafford does what it can to get out of the way.

Now i'm left with a dilemma! Do i follow her and report her to the police or do i let my dog off her leash and let her have her own way?

Then we would all be reading about how another 'Bull Terrier' has ripped apart another dog and they should all be put to sleep! :loopy:

We had an American Pit Bull terrier for many years. She was a sweet, friendly, gentle dog who never showed any aggression. The kids loved her. I always secretly feared that delivery men and such would discover what a softie she really was, because she looked ferocious. We finally were forced to have her put down at the age of fourteen when she developed a painful kidney ailment

By comparison, my sister's Jack Russell terrier had a prickly disposition and hated kids.

vidster,

I'm also a responsible dog owner, and I know how frustrating this sort of careless behavior on the part of other dog owners can be. We have a 30 lb. female cardigan corgi. She's NEVER allowed out unless she's on a leash.

Last year, my husband and I were out walking with the dog. Our neighbors have a 90 lb. siberian husky. They let him run loose whenever they're doing yardwork, washing the car etc. Long story short, their dog sees our dog, comes charging down the driveway and attacks.

The wife is SCREAMING her head off at her dog, but as he's not on a leash, how is THAT going to stop him? Unbelievably, our dog manages to bite the neighbor's dog severely on the throat, then latches onto the bigger dog's ear and won't let go.

It took 15 minutes and two buckets of cold water before we were finally able to pry her jaws open. And their dog cried and yipped like a big baby the entire time! My husband said later, don't let the short legs fool 'ya!

Two weeks later, they come over with a bill for $700, AND DEMAND THAT WE PAY IT! Huh?! $700 bucks? FOR WHAT?!

Their dog had to be sedated, and have his wounds cleaned and stitched shut. His ear and throat became infected, and required drains and antibiotics.

Another neighbor said the embarrassment of having a 30 lb. dog beat the crap out of their 90 lb. dog should have kept them from ever mentioning the incident again.

I thought about giving them half, but my husband said the hell with that. This entire thing could've been avoided if their dog had been on a leash.

Did I mention that these two are also teachers at my son's school? They actually had the gall to approach me in my son's classroom, and again brought up the unpaid vet bill. They threatened to sue. They said they had a witness that would testify that we came onto their property.

I told them go ahead and sue. Your dog wasn't on a leash. I also talked to the principal about their unprofessional behavior, and I think he was rather amused by the whole little dog beats up big dog story. We didn't hear a peep out of them after that.

Did I also mention that we now never see this dog out running around without a leash? Guess his owners learned an expensive lesson.

Turn this moron into the proper authorities. If something were to happen, you can bet they'd scream bloody murder.

:) Sierra

More evidence to keep these dogs on a lead and under control.

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1050623

These people need locking up, let a pit bull terrier loose in a kids playground
:mad:

If anyone knows about this attack, please contact the police now.

My dad always used to say that a dog never forgets and can hold a grudge against particular people.

I reckon that any dog breed classed as a 'dangerous' or 'fighting' breed needs to be with responsible owners and I know a few people who are real dog lovers and have a love for particular breeds. These owners and others like them give their pets the necessary love, attention and exercise needed in order to provide and maintain a well-balanced lifestyle. However, I am becoming increasingly concerned with the type of dog owner who likes to be seen out and about with a 'tough dog' that isn't always kept on a lead after having a lucky escape from a rotty myself some time back.

How some people are allowed to buy such dogs escapes me.

Originally posted by mikey
More evidence to keep these dogs on a lead and under control.

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1050623

These people need locking up, let a pit bull terrier loose in a kids playground
:mad:

If anyone knows about this attack, please contact the police now.

I've just read this in the Sheffield Star. The owners of this dog are a disgrace and when they are caught, they should be locked up for not being in control of a dog and for leaving the scene! :rant:
After my last post i stopped walking my Staffie in the park because there are too many people about who can't control theirs. It's a shame but i think it's about time dogs were banned from public places unless they are on a leash.

I'll second what mikey said about calling the police. Anyone with any info, please don't wast time. Call the police now and help get this dangerous dog and it's dangerous owners off our streets!
Police contact number: 0114 2964305

Originally posted by halevan
Get rid of them I say, before any more vulnerable, innocent, people fall victim to these powerfull beasts from hell.

I assume the beasts from hell comment was aimed at the owners? Because that's where the real problem lies.

Originally posted by mikey
More evidence to keep these dogs on a lead and under control.

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1050623

These people need locking up, let a pit bull terrier loose in a kids playground
:mad:

If anyone knows about this attack, please contact the police now.
The reporter of that story needs his dramatic license removing from his arse. I am sure it was a horrible attack but the way in which the story is over hyped to oscar winning standards just goes to show how journos are rekindling the UK's APBT legacy.
I bet nobody involved has the faintest idea what an American Pitbull Terrier looks like.
The big staffie idea does not really fit with purebred APBT either, some of the best fighting dogs I have seen have looked almost whippet like but with big powerful jawed heads, nothing like the show dogs you will see.
The dogs outlined in that story sound like the product of your stereotypical "I'm a hardman/bare knuckle fighter/drug dealer" sort of owner who bought the dog merely as a status symbol.
Its the owners, not the dogs that need banning.

We just had a case this past week where a PET bull terrier killed the little boy in his own back yard, not unusual, BUT when interviewed the mother said, "Oh! we shouldn't blame the dog, if it was going to happen it would"

Sounded like a born again mother to me .

Well said, AJ. You and I have experience of the bull breeds and , without being pompous, know what we are talking about here.

The kind of curs imported as APBTs, since the 80s, are so far removed from proper fighting dogs as to be ludicrous. Many are American Staffordshire Terrier crosses etc. I saw one in Liverpool around three weeks previously, that was quite obviously part-Boxer. There are very few bona fide specimens in the uk, and those that are here are usually not from 'fighting' lines, such as 'Red Nose'.

Thousands of American families will testify too, that those from the 'fighting lines' can make wonderful pets, if properly supervised. So can all the bull breeds. As I said previously, the RSPCA have figures on dog attacks on humans. I believe the bull breeds [EBT, Staffie etc] are very low on the list. One is in greater, potential danger of attack and subsequent injury from a Golden Retriever.

Now i think back my sister had a bull terrier for years, every night before they went to bed they would take off his coller so if someone broke in in the middle on the night they wouldn't be able to grab the dog with anything.

If the dog in question was a Golden Retriever it would never have made the press. It seems anything they can call a pitbull will be sure of headline coverage.
I have yet to meet the owners of an APBT that have been involved in a biting incident.
I also think the parents of some of these victims, once the initial shock has died down start to see the £££££ signs with respect to a claim for compensation and aggressively push this emotive subject to the media for that extra special bit of coverage.

Timo :thumbsup:

A boy was killed a few days ago in San Francisco by his family's pit bulls. They are now talking about banning the dogs.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/04/dog.maul.ap/

We had an american pit bull terrier for many years, and she was a sweet, loving, gentle pet, who never showed any aggression towards people. We were finally forced to have her put down at the age of fourteen because she was so sick.

We now have a female corgi, and while she's fine with us, I have to watch her around small children. She's ok until they try to grab her ears or tail, or get right in her face. Something we never had to do with our other dog.

:) Sierra

my dogs are american bulldogs........i get asked at least once a week "arnt they banned" :rant: no they arnt:rant: different breed altogether.......i know of a woman in canada who had her dog confiscated and destroyed because of a local witch hunt saying she had a pit bull......bull dogs as in staffs,AB's ,EBT,boxers masiffs are loving and loyal dogs,unfortunatley pit bulls have a scew loose but so many people tar bulldogs with the same brush.

The debate goes on....

and on...

Most people wouldn't recognise an ' American Pitbull Terrier' f they saw one in the street, there is no such breed as a 'Pitbull Terrier' most usually use this term to identify staffordshire bull terriers etc...

anyhow I'm not going to get into this debate, i've worked voluntarily for the RSPCA and had many breeds of dog through my life, and in my opinion any dog is capable of being destructive/dangerous..as already stated.

Owners of any animal should have to have some sort of license...but then anyone can 'drag' a child up can't they...:shakes:

Heres a good test, to see if you actually know what your jumping on the band-wagon about... ;)

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

No Cheating!

got it with my 2nd guess

4th guess!
Just goes to show that we don't know half as much as we think we do.
I'm wondering if the dog in question is one of the many Staffie cross's that seem to be popping up everywhere?

Originally posted by vidster
4th guess!
Just goes to show that we don't know half as much as we think we do.
I'm wondering if the dog in question is one of the many Staffie cross's that seem to be popping up everywhere?


Staffie crosses have been around for years, indeed my dawg (asleep on my feets now) was a rescue, staffy - x.
He's as daft as a brush with us, and so well behaved, but he has those terrier instincts....see a cat = chase the cat. See a male dog = Protect me.

If you don't know what your dog is going to behave like, and just assume ' oh he'll be fine..he's 'ard, he'll look after his 'sen' then unfortunatley thats when these awful incidents happen. If you take the time to find out, and treat your animal accordingly, then you minimise any risk...

it's like riding a bike...you don't just get on and hope for the best...shooting off as fast as you go, you learn how to do it safely.

I've had 'Rupert' about 3 months now, he's been vaccinated, castrated etc. When we go out he's on a very strong (and blummin' expensive!) lead, if I take him into the woods, he's muzzled before being let off...there might not be anyone else for miles in those woods, or there just might be, why take that risk?

These dogs (staffy crosses) are out there in the hundreds, mainly due to people breeding them and selling them for £40 in the Ad-Mag and such places....quick beer money :nono:

Originally posted by vidster
4th guess!
Just goes to show that we don't know half as much as we think we do.
I'm wondering if the dog in question is one of the many Staffie cross's that seem to be popping up everywhere?

i live quite near nofolk park i walk my dogs near there regular and i also work in that area once a fortnight i don't recall ever seeing a PBT... not for at least 5 years anyway..the lass who had that one always had it muzzled and it'll probably be dead by now as it was oldish then.

Kirky,
Are your American Bulldogs from the big, strong 'Johnson' line? What fine beasts they are! I hope you enjoy owning them, and I look forward to the day when the Kennel Club recognises the American Bulldog as a proper, true-to- type breed. That is exactly what it is.

Beansforyou,
'Pitbull' Terrier is not a recognised term, but American Pitbull Terrier is. I take your point though, the 'Pitbull' umbrella term seems to cover everything from Bulldogs to Staffies in the eyes of some. I get regularly asked if my brindle/white English Bull Terrier bitch is a 'Pitbull'. 'Yes', I occasionally reply, in sarcastic disgust.

Originally posted by timo

Beansforyou,
'Pitbull' Terrier is not a recognised term, but American Pitbull Terrier is. I take your point though, the 'Pitbull' umbrella term seems to cover everything from Bulldogs to Staffies in the eyes of some. I get regularly asked if my brindle/white English Bull Terrier bitch is a 'Pitbull'. 'Yes', I occasionally reply, in sarcastic disgust.

I used to 'live' with an American Pitbull Terrier (she belonged to my landlady, but I ended up more or less adopting her :) ) again, it was very much a case of her being fabulous with us, but strangers were a different matter.

She was always muzzled when out, but we would still get people crossing the road when they saw us coming (maybe it was my tattoo's lol)

She once had to have an abcess syringed on her ear, at the vets, and he sewed the ear back up using buttons (like on your shirt/dress) either side of her ear, to stop any more swelling....Well, talk about dirty looks from people as we walked down the street....one or two people actually had the front to tell us how disgusted they were to see how we had 'adorned' our dog, for fashions sake!!
:loopy:

As for Kirky's dogs, I know i'd probably turn into a pile of drool if I saw them, I think I saw some pictures some time ago :)

neither of my dogs are pure johnson but they have plenty of johson dogs in their pedigree's. both fine specimens..but i would say that lol:D

Originally posted by kirky
got it with my 2nd guess

Me too - though I think it had more to do with the harness than the dog!

Personally I think banning any dogs is a stupid idea - banning things is usually the resort of a government that doesn't actually know what to do and rarely has the desired effect - prohibition in the US and the banning of handguns in the UK being 2 examples that spring to mind.

Well said, evildrneil. Make a thing illegal, and it acquires a mystique too. If ever there was a banning, breeders would get around it using clandestine means, different breed names etc.

At the turn of the century, there were many different varieties of 'bull and terrier' dogs. One, particularly 'game' variety was the small Cheshire Terrier, which resembled the Miniature variety of the show Bull Terrier. It was
successfully entered to badger, and almost certainly has been incorporated into the bloodlines of Bull Terriers and Staffords. It is quite possible to create, or maybe even recreate, 'new' varieties of bull and terrier breeds. No ban, except one that covered all 'bull' and all 'terrier' breeds could ever successfully cope with it. In fact, in the world of field sports, hunters experiment all the time, adding Stafford to Jack Russell [the small, hunt terrier type, not the show Parson Russell], Bull Terrier to Russell etc. If you ask me, and you may feel free to do so, it might be a damned good idea to add a dash of Patterdale Terrier [not recognised by Kennel Club, and a black, smooth- coated variety of the Fell Terrier] to the modern day, show Staffie in order to liven the beggar up a bit!

Read this link.
Pit Bull attacks child in playpark (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1050623)

Should there be dog free areas in parks? eg around playgrounds, etc.

i think it is a good idea to have fences around play areas for many reasons not just to keep dogs out.

Have a look at some comments here:-
http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2495

... and I think that you will find that most play areas are signed as 'no dogs'.

Mod: Threads merged

the problem isn't the dogs but the owners.

I know the softest Alsatians you'll ever meet. I also know horrible dogs who because they are treated like **** by their owners are really nasty.

Originally posted by robbie
the problem isn't the dogs but the owners.

I know the softest Alsatians you'll ever meet. I also know horrible dogs who because they are treated like **** by their owners are really nasty.


yep i agree with this one,i know my family had pit bulls and both are soft as a brush,,same with two mates that got them,i got a rottweiler and they dangerous too,but she is the most softest playing dog too know..

yet i have seen both these breed of dogs in a nasty state.i seen a pit bull other year go for kids on street,and what did the owner do,beat it with a broom stick and kicked it.
anouth mate of mine got 2 pit bulls.one is so loveing,the other been trained to attack if anyone enters the house.

so yes i think it got to do with the owners how they bring them up too,

Originally posted by spinny

anouth mate of mine got 2 pit bulls.one is so loveing,the other been trained to attack if anyone enters the house.


Crikey, you must really look forward to visiting your mate's house!

Seriously, the fact that certain breeds of dogs can be trained to do serious (and sometimes lethal) damage when the mood takes them is more than enough reason to outlaw them.

No matter how well the responsible owners look after their dogs, there will always be those owners who view their animals as an extension of their manhood and encourage them to be aggressive accordingly. This reflects on all owners of 'hard' dogs unfortunately.

I can't find it online, but I've just read in yesterday's newspaper about the 2 year old girl who was mauled by a pit bull terrier in a 'no dogs' children's play area.

The little girl was rushed to Sheffield Children's Hospital and is having stitches today.

The dog had got into the children's play area which had signs saying no dogs and had attacked the little girl who lay face down on the ground. The dog attached itself to the back of her head while she lay screaming. Her mum came running over and kicked and screamed at the dog who bit hard into the girl's head causing blood to pour down her face.

Eventually the owners of the dog came and prised the jaw of the dog open and released the girl, however the owners, who had brought the dog into the play area off lead left refusing to apologise or wait for the police.

This happened in Norfolk Heritage Park and the family are appealing to anyone with information about the dog.

This happens far too often in my opinion :( when I was searching it online I had hundreds of search results about children being mauled by pit bulls. I know there has been a thread on this already.

Quite rightly, within the law, people have the right to train and treat their dogs as they see fit. And whether all dogs are intrinsically dangerous should the right conditions apply is one for dog experts.

My question was, in the light of the savaging of this two-year-old girl, should public parks, seaside beaches, picnic areas, school playing fields and especially children's playgrounds be fenced and dogs be prohibited by law or byelaw.

In my opinion, it is only fair that parents should be able to take their children to designated areas where they can be relatively safe from the anxiety of dog attacks. I'm a dog owner myself and I've read the anxious expressions of parents of small children as my two dogs bound about in the local park. After all, the parents aren't aware that my dogs are "soft as brushes" and "only want to play".

This is why I have a fear of dogs

Some of them are nasty pieces of work :rant:

this comment may have been made already but i'm idle & don't read all the posts.

can anyone confirm this was a "pit bull" that attacked because according to the kennel club "pit bulls" are not allowed in this country unless licensed, under the dangerous dog act.

i find it amazing that we only hear reports when a staffy, rottweiller or alsation type dog attacks someone, obviously the occasions when spaniels "bo for " someone are not important enough or don't attract the crowds.

obviously the dog owners were in the wrong for allowing the dog into a child area off the lead but as usual we don't have ll the details.

i had a placid cocker spaniel who often took a dislike to children, but kids insisted on trying to stroke her without asking even when on a lead.it would only need a "nip" when the child was up close to cause serious problems & it would have been the dog in bother not the child.

Originally posted by IanMitchell
This is why I have a fear of dogs

Some of them are nasty pieces of work :rant:

do you have a fear of people, i've heard that some of them can be nasty as well.

Well, dog's can't read 'No Dogs' signs but responsible owners can.

Perhaps it's time to prosecute the owners for greivous bodily harm or something similar. They're not fit to keep teh dog, who will no doubt now be killed and the idiots who owned it will be free to get another one.

Joe

they should killthe dog and ban the owners from keeping dogs- if you can't control them then you shouldn't have them!!

[MOD NOTE]Threads merged

Originally posted by scottf
they should killthe dog and ban the owners from keeping dogs- if you can't control them then you shouldn't have them!!

But that's just the problem.

How do you enforce the ban?

Bring in a change to the law similar to that that allows prosecution for Corporate Manslaughter - (where the directors of a company can be tried for the crimes of 'the company')

People would soon start keeping the dog on a leash.

Maybe also apply it to parents who let their little feral brats run riot as well.

Little Kyle or Shaznay woudl soon find they got a clip around teh ear more often if mum / dad could go to jail.

Joe

It was in the newspaper that it was a pit bull. I too thought that they were banned in this country, but who knows! If the owners aren't responsible enough to keep a dog away from a children designated area perhaps it was here illegally.

The thing is the lack of responsibility these people have shown has resulted in the near death of a dog I expect as well as the anxiety for the family and the future deep seated fear of dogs for this little girl. I mean, it's bound to affect her psychologically, she's only young but you don't forget something like that.

The newspaper said, she was lucky to have been face down, her hair will grown over it, but if the dog had got her face she'd have been scarred for life.

The owners have run off without apology, waiting for the police, or leaving a contact number so this dog is free to do it again.
It makes me sick. :rant:

Two-year-old Jade Coates was pinned to the ground screaming by the vicious dog which attacked her as she played on a slide in Norfolk Heritage Park last night. Jade was rushed to Sheffield Children's Hospital after the attack and will have stitches in her wounds tomorrow.



Full Story Here:
http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1050623

How about reintroducing the dog licence set at say £250 with compulsory microchipping? I know there was some complaint about the dog licence stopping people from owning dogs because of the price, but in all honesty if you can't afford a dog licence can you afford to keep a dog?

I don't think it would be possible to police it, it would just become yet another cash-cow for easy targets.

When there was the old dog liscensing, no one I knew who had a dog bothered with a licence.

What about working & guide dogs, breeders?



(Would it be cheaper for black/white dogs? So farmers would get yet another subsidy :hihi: )

I have two well behaved terriers................ a large licence would cripple me financially but I would be prepared to pay it, if it deturred people from having killer dogs, but I am afraid that some of these owners are scummy people who would be bothered if their dogs had a lcence or not.

I AM NOT ANGRY AT THESE DOGS BEING AROUND! but I am angry at scum like jelly fish-type people having them!!!!!

i own 5 dogs & if the licence was for a purpose, not a knee jerk reaction by anti dog people, i would be prepared to cough up.
however why don't we just tax or licence all types of spare time activity just in case someone gets hurt or doesn't like the pasttime.
a dart might bounce out of the dart board or a runaway skate board might trip up an old lady. i mean we could even sue driving instructers for manslaughter at this rate if one of their pupils kills someone in a road accident.

Originally posted by evildrneil
How about reintroducing the dog licence set at say £250 with compulsory microchipping? I know there was some complaint about the dog licence stopping people from owning dogs because of the price, but in all honesty if you can't afford a dog licence can you afford to keep a dog?

i don't think the type of people that let their dogs behave in the manor in question would bother to buy a dog licence so its the responsible dog owners that would be paying the price,just in the same way as responible motorists pay through the teeth for uninsured drivers etc

I can't believe this :suspect:
Just reading through this thread again and a program is going off. The commentator's saying who's on next week and his last sentence is "And a Pit Bull", it then shows a Staffie sniffing the camera :loopy:

Also.....Riding home from work today (keeping an eye out for said owners of vicious dog) in and around Norfolk Park. I come out of the top entrance to see three young lads about 12 years old, happily walking down with a dog. The dog obviously had some sort of PitBull/Staffie mixed in it.
I noticed that none of the lads had a leash :rant:
This is just asking for trouble IMO :(

Pity really. The dog looked brilliant. Something you don't normally see in a Terrier Xbreed

I was chatting to a lad who had a Shar pei cross Staffie and it looked stunning. Big brindle thing, full of muscle, it looked fearless.
It was one of 4 apparently, all looked just as menacing and awesome as any APBT. Unfortunatly all of them had some strange bowel deformity that I had witnessed in other Shar pei/Staffie crosses. Shame because it could have been an interesting animal had it been pursued correctly.
The only problem I ever had with my Staffordshire Terrier was with other dogs. Sometimes he would want to play with other dogs until he was exhausted and other times he would simply tear into them for no reason. He had to be kept permenantly leashed until it was as safe as possible for him to be let off.
As for the APBT, he never ever bothered other dogs or people, not ever.

Bit of an essay sorry.

The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 meant that owners had to have their PBTs tattooed and details maintained in a register. These dogs will now be very old dogs, incapable I would have thought of causing much damage. The problem is that the pitbull was breed from somewhere and that breed mix can always be recreated. (mix a staffy and a neopolitain masstif and you wouldn't be far off the mark for a dog looking like one)

The vast majority of cases in the UK where dogs attack humans involve GSD (Alsatians) but this is because it is the most common dog in the county and the most commonly used dog for security, so they are often simply doing there job, not misbehaving.

The problem with bringing in breed specific legislation, such as the UK did with the DDA 1991 relating to the Pit Bull Terrier, is that it takes no account of the dogs behaviour. It is simply a knee jerk reaction to sensationalised press witch hunting. It resulted in lots of money being wasted in court discussing if a dog was more like a Staffie than a pitbull because the length of the front legs are only 12inchs long………Not important things like if the dogs temperament was such that it might attack a human.
There is already legislation the Dogs Act 1871 which has been around for sometime (indeed I think there is only really laws about prostitution on the statues which are older and still in force!), which allows us, (the police, individuals and Local Authorities) to take appropriate action in relation to dogs which cause a threat to the public, no matter what breed. This could include such measures as the magistrate sees fit, i.e. the dog being on a lead and muzzled in a public place, or even destroyed.
What breed specific legislation does is allow the government to be seen to do something, rather than dealing with a problem, or pointing out that the press have made a mountain out of a mole hill.

To my mind more useful legislation which could perhaps help at least a little in circumstances where 'dangerous dogs' roam in parks would be to introduce collar and tag requirements under the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
I have a terrier dog, which conforms to most of the stereotypes for dogs of this type, loveable in the house with anyone and everything, but out in the open, little animals especially rodents, and aggressive dogs (not bitches) and cats he thinks are fair game. Because I'm a responsible owner I never take him off the lead in the park, as you never know who’s around the corner, unfortunately this is not the case with some other owners.

If Sheffield Council were to introduce a collar and tag order then they would have to patrol the areas they designate as where a dog need to be under control, i.e. parks where people should be free to enjoy themselves, and not have to worry about irresponsible dog owners letting their dogs run riot. Additionally extra patrols on council parks would also mean that dog fouling (and the serving of fixed penalty notices for failure to remove faeces) could be patrolled. If owners are made aware that they need to be more responsible then perhaps they might take more control of their dogs. This would benefit the public at large, dog owner/ lover/ hater alike.

Personal Opinion-

Yep all dangerous dogs should not be allowed in the UK!

Does that include Joan Rivers?

Originally posted by halevan
So, we have another case of a young boy being savaged by a pit bull terrier! it goes on and on, one after another. Isn't it time to muzzle these dangerous animals, before somone else is seriously injured or killed?

The owners obviously cannot, or will not control them, the authorities do not seem to care that these vicious dogs will attack without provocation even when on a lead held by their owners, shouldn't they be put down and banned from this country altogether?

The people who own them are not concerned and regard owning one as a status symbol, it is similar to a person carrying a lethal weapon, knife or gun, something to inflict pain and suffering and in some cases death on an unsuspecting public.

Get rid of them I say, before any more vulnerable, innocent, people fall victim to these powerfull beasts from hell and yet again we are faced with the images of shocking injuries to all and sundry who cannot go about their business without being pounced upon.


Its not the dogs that need banning its the owners any dog can be made vicious, but children neeed educationg NOT to torment any animal. I sorry if this offends but i am entitled to my opinion, but i always give the dog the benefit of the doubt, i know its not nice to get bitten but i have been on the receiving end of German Shepherds teeth at a very young age and was scared for life, but i adore that breed. Excellent dog

My sister(who isn't currently living in the UK) has three pitbulls, the first time I met them i was afraid that they were going to be vicous killers and try to rip every limb form my body but it turned out that they were three great dogs! Always willing to play and I have never seena dog that cares so much for infants, when the dogs sensed that there was something not right, thy would standover the children(who were sleeping) to make sure that they came to no harm. They are very loyal and obedient and can be stopped from chasing even a cat, as dog owners should know this is very diffiult,by simple verbal commands.Therefor I also dont think that pitbulls should be banned, but owners who have no idea as how to train them should be banned from owning them.

Viper,
Stopping any dog from chasing a cat, let alone a bull breed type dog is exceptionally difficult. No verbal command could stop the prey drive of my English Bull Terrier bitch. The very second she sees a cat, she lunges for it with [as Mike Tyson used to say] 'bad intentions'. For this reason, I keep her on a harness when walking, and I look out for cats. If your sister can stop a Pitbull from cat chasing with the use of 'simple verbal commands', she is an extremely good dog-handler to say the least.

Yes - Pit Bull Terriers should be banned

timo,
I disagree 100% with what you said. I have a Staffie and she, like almost all dogs, likes nothing more than to chase cats (or Fox's :loopy: ). Once she has set off running i can stop her in her tracks by simply lowering the tone of my voice and shouting her name.

when the dogs sensed that there was something not right, thy would standover the children(who were sleeping) to make sure that they came to no harm.
I went up to my friends flat to buy some weights. He told me to watch as he started shouting. As soon as he started shouting a Staffie jumped over the baby gate, into the living room and stood astride his baby growling at my friend.
He told me he wanted to get rid of the Staffie because of living in a flat. I bought the Staffie instead of the weights :wink:

Originally posted by Sierra
A boy was killed a few days ago in San Francisco by his family's pit bulls. They are now talking about banning the dogs.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/04/dog.maul.ap/

We had an american pit bull terrier for many years, and she was a sweet, loving, gentle pet, who never showed any aggression towards people. We were finally forced to have her put down at the age of fourteen because she was so sick.

We now have a female corgi, and while she's fine with us, I have to watch her around small children. She's ok until they try to grab her ears or tail, or get right in her face. Something we never had to do with our other dog.

:) Sierra

Lets face it what would we do do or how would we react if
(a) we couldn't talk
(b) someone pulled your ears or tail constantly

I'd do more than bite

Originally posted by Wattsy
Lets face it what would we do do or how would we react if
(a) we couldn't talk
(b) someone pulled your ears or tail constantly

I'd do more than bite

Maybe it's her small size? I don't know. But I'm usually surprised at how many parents will allow their toddler children to walk right up to strange dogs, regardless of size, and hug them, or otherwise manhandle them.

When my kids were small, I always made sure they never approached strange dogs. We always asked the owner first if it was ok for the kids to pet the dog. I still do this myself.

:) Sierra

Here we go again............sadly.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/01/illegal-dog-pitbull-killed-boy

Pit Bull's are banned. Effectively. They were in 1991. There's an existing thread about this sad case in 'Pets'

Maybe it's her small size? I don't know. But I'm usually surprised at how many parents will allow their toddler children to walk right up to strange dogs, regardless of size, and hug them, or otherwise manhandle them.

When my kids were small, I always made sure they never approached strange dogs. We always asked the owner first if it was ok for the kids to pet the dog. I still do this myself.

:) Sierra
My bold... well said Sierra... Do you still post ?? there's some golden oldies on this thread ;) Where is Don kiddick
nowadays ??

Stop breeding them with other jaw droppingly muscular,agressive and powerful dogs ie;each other.

The act of breeding these dogs is deliberately and cynically agressive,let the dog sow its wild oats as it wishes,just as you or I would expect to do.

For a caveman a vicious dog could be a plus over an extra child but in this day and age it isn't.

Sorry if I've offended any hard nuts.

Stop breeding them with other jaw droppingly muscular,agressive and powerful dogs ie;each other.

The act of breeding these dogs is deliberately and cynically agressive,let the dog sow its wild oats as it wishes,just as you or I would expect to do.

For a caveman a vicious dog could be a plus over an extra child but in this day and age it isn't.

Sorry if I've offended any hard nuts.

Yeah and while we're there, stop people hurting each other. Stop wars. All lovely ideas, all not likely to ever happen :|

As I wrote in an earlier thread 'dogs and children together is a recipe for disaster'.You can imagine the furore this comment caused.
Now we have another little person dead.

As I wrote in an earlier thread 'dogs and children together is a recipe for disaster'.You can imagine the furore this comment caused.
Now we have another little person dead.

Hmm. How about the 99.9999999% of dog/child interactions that are positive?

Do you children and all other things that have occasionally killed them throughout history are also a recipe for disaster?

Hmm. How about the 99.9999999% of dog/child interactions that are positive?


hmmmm...make that 90% pem :)

a lot of children get bitten by poorly trained, badly managed dogs with dominance or nervous aggression

a lot of people tolerate it because they see the dog as part of the family

people need to be aware how dangerous dogs can be - particularly those that are bred to be guard dogs

border collies also - never trust those watchful eyes!! :hihi:

hmmmm...make that 90% pem :)

a lot of children get bitten by poorly trained, badly managed dogs with dominance or nervous aggression

a lot of people tolerate it because they see the dog as part of the family

people need to be aware how dangerous dogs can be - particularly those that are bred to be guard dogs

border collies also - never trust those watchful eyes!! :hihi:

10% of interactions between children and dogs result in an injury? :huh: I don't think so.

Think how rarely you hear of it happening!

Yeah and while we're there, stop people hurting each other. Stop wars. All lovely ideas, all not likely to ever happen :|

With respect PEM 123.

Legislating against dangerous dog breeding is much easier than stopping wars.

The animal would not be in any way concerned or distressed that it is not making any more muscly dogs with 10 billion pounds of pressure per square inch of biting force.As long as it can get its sore looking little crochet hook of a bell end away with anything from a border collie to a toy poodle,it'll most probably be perfectly happy.:D

With respect PEM 123.

Legislating against dangerous dog breeding is much easier than stopping wars.

The animal would not be in any way concerned or distressed that it is not making any more muscly dogs with 10 billion pounds of pressure per square inch of biting force.As long as it can get its sore looking little crochet hook of a bell end away with anything from a border collie to a toy poodle,it'll most probably be perfectly happy.:D

With respect muchtoofair...

Can you explain why legislation introduced in 1991 to do just that has only made the problem worse?

Why it's only had an affect on decent people whose dogs were never a threat?

Why it's eradicated good breeding stock and created bad quality backstreet breeding?

Yes Pitbulls should be banned. What should happen is this:

Existing dogs shouldnt be put down, but the deliberate breeding of them should be made illegal as of say, Jan 1st 2010, after which any pit bull dog deemed to have been born AFTER that date by a vet should be put down.

Yes Pitbulls should be banned. What should happen is this:

Existing dogs shouldnt be put down, but the deliberate breeding of them should be made illegal as of say, Jan 1st 2010, after which any pit bull dog deemed to have been born AFTER that date by a vet should be put down.

Already banned...........since 1991 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/ukpga_19970053_en_1

Already banned...........since 1991 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/ukpga_19970053_en_1

But i keep hearing that people are 'unclear' weather or not certern 'types' of Pitbull dogs are the illegal type or not. A pitbull is a Pitbull to me :huh:

With respect muchtoofair...

Can you explain why legislation introduced in 1991 to do just that has only made the problem worse?

Why it's only had an affect on decent people whose dogs were never a threat?

Why it's eradicated good breeding stock and created bad quality backstreet breeding?

Good points but I'm not convinced that it's strictly the legislation that's made the situation worse,(if indeed that's so,I can't dispute that,having no figures to hand) more likely the lack of implementation and/or the methods employed by people to circumvent the legislation.We also have no realistic projection as to what the situation would be like without the legislation having being imposed,it could be worse still as both situations may now be running concurrently,ie: "back street breeding" and rogue "good stock",which are not my own definitions,both are a proliferation of the type generally understood to present potential problems,which is what prompted the legislation.

I think that it's clear that the spirit of the law isn't being upheld here,either by the authorities or the punters.

yes definitely

But i keep hearing that people are 'unclear' weather or not certern 'types' of Pitbull dogs are the illegal type or not. A pitbull is a Pitbull to me :huh:
That's hardly going to stand up in court though is it? Coming up with objective criteria to differentiate Pitbulls form other types of dog is much harder than you might think.

Good points but I'm not convinced that it's strictly the legislation that's made the situation worse,(if indeed that's so,I can't dispute that,having no figures to hand) more likely the lack of implementation and/or the methods employed by people to circumvent the legislation.We also have no realistic projection as to what the situation would be like without the legislation having being imposed,it could be worse still as both situations may now be running concurrently,ie: "back street breeding" and rogue "good stock",which are not my own definitions,both are a proliferation of the type generally understood to present potential problems,which is what prompted the legislation.

I think that it's clear that the spirit of the law isn't being upheld here,either by the authorities or the punters.

It's like this....

Pit Bulls were only ever a threat in the wrong hands, ie a scummy person who wants a dog that's menacing and accordingly will encourage it to be so.

That sort of person won't give a rats ass that the breed is outlawed.

Once outlawed, all the law abiding owners stop breeeding and owning them. But what have we done?

We haven't removed the desire of certain people to own an aggressive pit bull? All we've done is eradicated the responsible side of pit bull ownership and replaced it with a lawless one.

It's complicated by the fact that 'pit bull' isn't a breed as such in the UK, rather a set of characteristics which can be had from breeding from many legal breeds.

So it's a doomed concept from the start. It's ridiculously complicated and consequently non-understandable. It effectively asks Police Constables to be vets :loopy:

Sorry PEM old chap but you're re-iterating some of my own points there whilst not really adressing the point I'm making about whether the legislation has made it worse or better and how we could possibly blame it for sending the practice "underground" if it was properly implemented in the spirit of the law,(I think in our heart of hearts we all know what is meant by that phrase)there wouldn't be such a problem.Moreover, what would have resulted in higher numbers of these types of animals,legislation or no legislation?

Think how rarely you hear of it happening!

it happens all the time pem

people just don't talk about it

Sorry PEM old chap but you're re-iterating some of my own points there whilst not really adressing the point I'm making about whether the legislation has made it worse or better and how we could possibly blame it for sending the practice "underground" if it was properly implemented in the spirit of the law?

That's always the problem with banning things - you just send the practice underground. I believe that's why efforts to ban potholing have failed.

As I wrote in an earlier thread 'dogs and children together is a recipe for disaster'.You can imagine the furore this comment caused.
Now we have another little person dead.

I can't believe how unsupportable this comment is:loopy:

Dogs can be very loving toward children, they can help children with mental disabilities and what about guide dogs???

How about if we ban a breed then you only see and hear of examples of the breed reared by people willing to keep them illegally.

If you make it legal you will start to hear more of the examples of the breed bred by law abiding people.

Statistically if you ban a breed its reputation will get worse.

I think we should stop the chavs who own these dogs from breeding.

it happens all the time pem

people just don't talk about it

In relation to the number of dogs owned though? In relation to total number of human/dog interactions? I don't think so.

If that were the case, we'd discuss it a lot more than every few months surely?

Sorry PEM old chap but you're re-iterating some of my own points there whilst not really adressing the point I'm making about whether the legislation has made it worse or better and how we could possibly blame it for sending the practice "underground" if it was properly implemented in the spirit of the law,(I think in our heart of hearts we all know what is meant by that phrase)there wouldn't be such a problem.Moreover, what would have resulted in higher numbers of these types of animals,legislation or no legislation?

Well I thought I was responding to your points? :huh: What do you want me to talk about?

I think we should stop the chavs who own these dogs from breeding.

Yeah. Not really implementable though is it? Y'know in the real world...

I think we should stop the chavs who own these dogs from breeding.

Spot on! There seems to be a new craze amongst the half-witted young male to have these dogs as some kind of status symbol.

It's not just the fact that they like their dogs to be threatening, but have you noticed the increase in the amount of dog crap on pavements?

You never see the chavs clear up after their dogs.

I think there should be a licence (£50 a year), with a requirement that all dogs are chipped - if any are found that aren't chipped, it's the dog pound in the sky. Bit like cars that aren't taxed.

I think there should be a licence (£50 a year), with a requirement that all dogs are chipped - if any are found that aren't chipped, it's the dog pound in the sky. Bit like cars that aren't taxed.

You'll always find those who won't pay the license fee, even when it was just 7/6 (37 1/2 pence)

kill the dog off? Why punish the poor dog, for having a feckless halfwit owner, though? It's not the dog's fault the owner's a tosser.

You'll always find those who won't pay the license fee, even when it was just 7/6 (37 1/2 pence)

kill the dog off? Why punish the poor dog, for having a feckless halfwit owner, though? It's not the dog's fault the owner's a tosser.

I agree, but the animal charities are already over-run with unwanted dogs (and cats), so what are they to do with them?

It's too easy to get a dog in the first place (that's why there are so many tossers with them), so there should be a formal system of registration. Each dog chipped, so the authorities know who it belongs to - and can take action against the owner when there are problems.

Also, there shouldn't be unlicensed breeding (I read that that was what was going on with the poor boy in Liverpool). This would cut down drastically on the number of unwanted dogs.

Saus,

As you can see from my signature, I am a strong proponent of curbing the random and unbridled breeding of animals, and a strong supporter of having animals neutered and chipped.

Both of my pets are neutered and chipped. I would not have it any other way.

Saus,

As you can see from my signature, I am a strong proponent of curbing the random and unbridled breeding of animals, and a strong supporter of having animals neutered and chipped.

Both of my pets are neutered and chipped. I would not have it any other way.

Three cheers for you. As you can see from my avatar, I'm a bit of a dog.

Three cheers for you. As you can see from my avatar, I'm a bit of a dog.

Woof! Woof! hope you've been snipped, then!! lol

I have a one year old grandson and an American bulldog I wouldnt dream of having them in the house together

Grandson comes Dog goes outside and into his pen, he's 60kg and as soft as a brush but why take the chance.

It's a shame but all aggresive dogs no matter what breed shoud be put in the ground including ankle biters and lapdogs

I think we should stop the chavs who own these dogs from breeding.

Right on both counts

Woof! Woof! hope you've been snipped, then!! lol

Just the thought of it:o