http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4125481.stm


I really can't believe this :(

On christmas weekend, how lucky are we that we don't have these kind of things here...

I sincerly hope that international aid will be sent there immediately

I agree Ian. I have just been reading about the devastation, let's hope they get aid to them quickly.

I have had my little dig about Christmas. Yet whilst we are enjoying ourselves please spare a thought for those that are victims of the quake in Asia. I have friends that live there, also friends that have gone there this Christmas for a holiday. Thousands have died. Thousands more injured. Fir this to happen at this particular time of the year is very sad. For this to happen at all shows that nature is the strongest force. It also saddens me that these deaths, Or maybe most of them were preventable. 2 years ago, A T.V documentary warned that this was a possibility, Did any of you watch this? It warned that a warning station was needed for this area. This was talked about but no action taken. Who was to pay the cost of this? I think that we are all paying the cost now. If 2 hours warning had been given, Then people could have been moved from or protected from the dangers. This is another reason why the world should work together. The World is neglected by all of us. Nature will surely punish us for this. Let us hope that in the coming new year. We shall find it in us all to work together as a " Human Race ". To make the world a nicer, Cleaner, place to live. Rid the World of Hunger and the plagues that ravage it.

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men, This is one thing I believe in. This is one thing that Christmas used to stand for.

God Bless you all that are effected by this tragedy

The death toll is roughly 7000, truly horrific. I've been watching the news channels for part of the day and it's a very sobering thought.

My love and thoughts go out to everyone affected.

Another thread (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?threadid=24577) about it too...

Makes you think don't it :(

thinking of donating to Oxfam rather than going out tonight.

I would like also, to express my deepest regret and sympathy to all those who have lost their families in this tragedy! and loads of hope to those whose status is unknown

Monies donated via OXFAM will not reach these people. Banks and Mosques are the places to take donations to. Red Cross have also got arrangements, Clothing and other items are badly needed. We should think ourselves so lucky. Maybe this is a lesson to all.

mod: threads merged.

Thanx for the update .

http://www.redcross.org.uk/news_subsection.asp?id=40238.

I did my bit .
Jesus not happy on his birthday.

Death toll has reached over 17,000 and rising now in S.E. Asia.. :(

The forum member that wanted to know how to donate / offer assistance. the main number for the red cross in this respect is

08705125125

There has been a warning, That as usual the scum bags that prey on this type of disaster are already setting up false appeals.

I appeal to forum members to keep an eye open for this and to report anything out of the ordinary. It is sad that even disasters such as this are a target for the criminals

Many Mosques. and local organizations are appealing. But the quickest way to offer help is direct with Red Cross.

As a follow up

There is now a number for the OXFAM org that are dealing with this disaster..

0870 333 2500

Repoeted toll up to 23,500, I can't believe a disaster of this magnitutde. Another worrying thing about this is that the flooding in Sri Lanka has caused many land mines to dislodge and float around, there are many that could have gone into villages, etc.

There is a programme to educate the children on landmines incase they come across one, but it obviously needs a programme to search and clear as soon as the water levels have gone down.

I don't buy Christmas presents and I know what the money I saved will go to.

Originally posted by Rodgers
Monies donated via OXFAM will not reach these people. Banks and Mosques are the places to take donations to. Red Cross have also got arrangements, Clothing and other items are badly needed. We should think ourselves so lucky. Maybe this is a lesson to all.

Why is this a lesson TO US ALL ? it's very sad but not OUR fault,
this is nature, these things happen.

Poppins

Maybe a little compassion would not go amiss at this time of the year. I would have thought it obvious. That an arguement over money, position, staffing etc. 2 years ago prevented this area being equipped with a warning station. Had there been a warning of 2 hrs, Many lives would have been saved. We are lucky in the respect that we do not have weather such as this, We go to these countries on holiday, Not realizing just how lucky we are here. This country never has nor never will see a disaster of this magnitude. We are lucky because whilst you are eating your turkey, people are dying, People are suffering. Yes it is Nature, These things do happen, But the effects of these disasters would be much less if the World as a whole cared for itself and the people that live on Earth. I hear people every day complain about our weather, OK so we are a Nation that loves to complain and this can be a good thing. But we never stop to think just how bad others have it do we ? ? I do not celebrate Christmas, I do not believe in God. But if there is a God, Then I pray that he will give these people strength and the courage to face up to a very uncertain future... OK have a bash at me if you wish to, But, A scrooge I may be. But I have a big heart

AMEN

Originally posted by poppins
Why is this a lesson TO US ALL ? it's very sad but not OUR fault,
this is nature, these things happen.

These things happen eh? so over 23,000 people are missing or presumed dead and all you can say is 'it's only nature, these things happen'.

I cant really remember anything on this scale happening before, even on the news channel they said it is the first time in history that a disaster on this scale has ever happened.

But, like your fictional characters name, keep living in your own world, ignore ours because obviously these things only happen in ours.:gag: :gag:

I have just made a donation to Oxfam (http://www.oxfam.org.uk/what_you_can_do/give_to_oxfam/donate/asiaquake1204.htm). I hope others will do the same.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Lestat
I cant really remember anything on this scale happening before, even on the news channel they said it is the first time in history that a disaster on this scale has ever happened.



I am in no position to comment on your memory, but regardless of what you think you heard on "the news channel" (which one?), let me reassure you that it is certainly NOT the first time in history for a tidal wave disaster on this scale. Neither will it be the last.

Originally posted by cgksheff
I am in no position to comment on your memory, but regardless of what you think you heard on "the news channel" (which one?), let me reassure you that it is certainly NOT the first time in history for a tidal wave disaster on this scale. Neither will it be the last.

BBC1 News 5.30pm today I think. Would you like to tell me when the last Tsunami or Tidal wave disaster was that hit 2 continents and killed over 23,000 people?

The toll, thus far, is 23.5 thousand dead, and still rising, 15 of which are believed to be Britons.

As I understand it, it is reported as being the worst for forty years....

dear God! you mean that forty years ago, there was a worse one!?!?

It's horrifying enough, seeing the pictures on tv, and in the papers. How much worse must it be, to be over there, living through it!

PT

An international warning system in the Pacific was started in 1965, the year after tsunamis associated with a magnitude 9.2 quake struck Alaska on Good friday. It is administered by the U.S-based National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

Tsunamis occur only occasionally, but they are much rarer in the Indian Ocean than the Pacific, where one occurs every few years


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/27/asia.warning.ap/index.html


http://www.prh.noaa.gov/itic/more_about/warning_systems.html.
India and srilanka are not members of the international Tsunami warning system. I cannot find UK in the state list.

Can it affect UK

Originally posted by kall_sheff
India and srilanka are not members of the international Tsunami warning system. I cannot find UK in the state list.

Can it affect UK

I have thought of this too . . . can you imagine if it happened in waters near us - we are only a small island?:o

mr PT and I were having a (coff!) discussion about this. he said "why didn't that area subscribe to an 'Early Warning System (EWS)'? Japan, and other countries which have Pacific Ocean coasts have one in place!"

I tried to explain to him, that the incidences of Tsunamis was so very,very rare in the Indian Ocean area, especially compared to the incidences of tsunamis occurring in the Pacific, that it was considered not worthwhile, for the Indian Ocean countries to subscribeto an EWS/ have an EWS set up in place.

PT

I am not sure if it could affect UK but not sheffield .we are 100 miles away.

Originally posted by Lestat
Would you like to tell me when the last Tsunami or Tidal wave disaster was that hit 2 continents and killed over 23,000 people?

Krakatoa

1883

Minimum estimate 40,000 souls.

The tsunami hit "TWO" continents?

I thought the only continent it hit was Asia (India/ Sri Lanka/ Bangladesh definitely being the Asian continent)

Does Sumatra come under Australia or something? (Sorry, I am over-tired, and having a total 'Blonde' moment, here)

or did the Tsunami hit africa? i cant work this one out. (as i say, blonde moment)

PT

PT,

Indonesia is regarded as part of Asia, but, yes, the waves did reach Africa and deaths have been reported in Somalia.

Originally posted by cgksheff
PT,

Indonesia is regarded as part of Asia, but, yes, the waves did reach Africa and deaths have been reported in Somalia.

Ah, right.....

According to the BBC website report that I had read (linked to in the very first post on this thread) it was said (and i quote)

"Waves forced out from the earthquake are even reported to have reached Somalia, on the east coast of Africa."

That was all it said in regard to Africa.. The site had not made any statement about any deaths, in Somalia or anywhere else in Africa with regard to this awful disaster. I would have thought, that had actual deaths in africa had been determined, it would have been headline material.... (it'd be like an earth quake off the coast of newfoundland, causing deaths in, say, luton!)

I am sure that waves that had originated off sumatra *might* well have broken, on the coast of Africa...
but that is the equivalent of saying:- "I dropped a stone, in the fishing pond in Graves Park, and the ripples that the stone made, reached the opposite bank ..."

If you get my gist, that quote I lifted directly from the report on the BBC site 'said a lot, without actually saying very much', in truth, am I right? (this is where my confusion comes from, really...)

PT

Originally posted by Plain Talker
Ah, right.....

According to the BBC website report that I had read (linked to in the very first post on this thread) it was said (and i quote)

That was all it said in regard to Africa.. The site had not made any statement about any deaths, in Somalia or anywhere else in Africa with regard to this awful disaster.
PT

A tsunami will travel unimpeded for thousands of miles accross deep water at hundreds of miles an hour. The energy dissipates as the circular wave widens, but can be concentrated by geographical features.

It hit somalia alright- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4126513.stm

Originally posted by Rodgers
Poppins

Maybe a little compassion would not go amiss at this time of the year. I would have thought it obvious. That an arguement over money, position, staffing etc. 2 years ago prevented this area being equipped with a warning station. Had there been a warning of 2 hrs, Many lives would have been saved.
Yep, some compassion may have been missing from Poppins' post, and personally I am horrified and saddened by the ongoing impact of the event.

However IMO Poppins' point is valid, and Rodgers' statement... Maybe this is a lesson to all...is a little too sweeping.
I was aware that submarine earthquakes can cause Tsunamis.
I was aware that the Indian Ocean suffers from Tectonic fault lines that can cause such submarine earthquakes.
Unfortunately I have little or no influence in the decision to install/not install an EWS system for that area..... so what lesson did I learn?
The only people who have learnt a harsh lesson are those 'officials' who decided not to install an EWS system.

Unfortunately such costly measures are usually only put in place in hindsight... ask the Hawaiins and Alaskans.... or the residents of Boscombe.

Again.. Rodgers....

We go to these countries on holiday, Not realizing just how lucky we are here.

I've been lucky enough to visit Thailand, Sri Lanka and the Maldives (all affected) and, whilst enjoying experiencing the local culture, environment and people, I was acutely aware of "just how lucky" I am with many aspects of living my lifestyle in Britain.

You've got to stop generalising mate.

And finally....
Originally posted by Rodgers
This country never has nor never will see a disaster of this magnitude.
You hope (see below)...

Originally posted by kall_sheff
Can it affect UK
Possible (see below)...

http://armageddononline.tripod.com/tsunamis.htm

People seem to have incredibly short memories.
In 1999 about 30-40,000 were killed in Turkey by an earthquake and there have been various disasters in the past.
Poppins is correct.If India,for example,didn't spend billions on nuclear weapons, then tney would perhaps be able to spend it on rapid response earthquake equipment.What can we do about that ?
About 20,000,000 peple died in1919-1921 in the Influenza epidemic. Is one way of dying any better or worse than another ? It'sl tragic and terrible but unless we were all in a state of alert ALL the time against floods,earthquakes,epidemics......etc..we'll never completely prevent disasters.
I can't see how we are responsible.Also it's only natural that people want to go on holidays or live in remote,unspoilt regions----you can't combat earthquakes in places like that.
One of the deadliest killers is the volcano eruption but people still insist on living quite near them or even on the sides of them [!].Are you going to move them all by force ?

The lesson we should learn (if we have not done so already) is that we live in the grace of the planet - and we are not masters of it as we (collectively as a species) sometimes like to think .

We live a precarious existence, some more precarious than others.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
A tsunami will travel unimpeded for thousands of miles accross deep water at hundreds of miles an hour. The energy dissipates as the circular wave widens, but can be concentrated by geographical features.

It hit somalia alright- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4126513.stm

okay, thank you, phan, for that information...

I hold my hands up, and stand corrected. The reports I had heard, up to the point of my posting that post last night, was that, basically, had only focussed on the immediate area around the Sumatra and India/Bangladesh/ Sri Lanka sections.

Even today, I have heard 2 news bulletins so far (the 0800 and the 0900 ones) and the focus is still on that area with very very little mention of Africa, if any mention at all. all they mention is that the estimate is 26thoudnad dead, and that ithe real number could be twice that

PT

What bugs me about this is that the newspapers and news bulletins seem to place more emphasis on the 11 (or however many it is now) British that were killed.

Yes. It's not unlike an episode of "Not the 9 o'clock news" -

Pamela Stephenson (paraphrased)-
"23 thousand people are feared dead somwhere in SE asia, and in Seville today, an English gentleman was slightly hurt by a cutting remark made about his suit."

I agree... it's like the series "drop the dead donkey"... the title of which was based on a sad joke about the premise of what constitutes "Newsworthiness"...

The skewed logic that calculates:-

ten thousand Africans= 100 Americans= two Brits:- but they are all superceded by a story about a dead donkey...

I suppose that we are going to be inundated with the usual spate of sick jokes that will be going round about this disaster ....


PT

Regardless of nationality that the BBC and newspapers such as The Daily Express go on about, the death toll is now 37,000 apparently.

http://www.itv.com/news/index_982655.html

lol, this article also goes on about 'Britons'

cheers phan

It seems that there are too may that take life for granted. If others do not, Then I for one think that I am a lucky person. I rarely complain, But, I would say to those that criticize my opinions to take a long look in the mirror. I myself have heard too many jokes already about this disaster. Those that have a mind, so evil as to think up these jokes have no place within the human race. I heard several in the Bookies today, mainly about placing bets on the disaster. I have walked out of there and will certainly complain to William Hill's

Originally posted by Rodgers
....But, I would say to those that criticize my opinions to take a long look in the mirror...

Not sure if that's aimed at me, but given that I criticised your previous post, then I'll assume that it is, partly.

I think you need to step down off the high moral ground you appear to have taken root on.

Do you think you are the only person to care about/be aware of global tragedies/suffering/repression/injustice/pollution etc etc etc. Cos IMO your posts are coming across that way.

I'd like to hear you criticise those nearer to the tragedy (ie the respective governments/ruling powers in the affected countries) that took the decision not to invest in an EWS, instead of implying that it is 'all of us' that should have learnt a lesson from this. Take a good look at sheffexpat's point regarding arms expenditure, and extend that to include Sri Lanka (albeit not nuclear).

Originally posted by Rodgers
cheers phan

For what? For clarifying that the lesson we should learn is that mother nature has a habit of giving humanity a kick in the arse every now and then?

I already knew that, but I don't think that was the point you were originally making.

Originally posted by sheffexpat
People seem to have incredibly short memories.


Don't they just :(

It was just this time last year that the UN were confirming 25,000 dead in the Iranian earthquake and expecting the figure to rise to around 50,000. I think the media lost interest before a final figure was arrived at.

The tsunameters each cost $250,000 and take about a month to build, Bernard said. "It has been vetted through a (United Nations commission) and they support it but there's always a delay between proposal writing and deployment of the funds

I guess they aren't expensive for any country .

Originally posted by Greybeard
Don't they just :(

It was just this time last year that the UN were confirming 25,000 dead in the Iranian earthquake and expecting the figure to rise to around 50,000. I think the media lost interest before a final figure was arrived at.

Shows what we hear is from the media, they control pretty much everything.

Originally posted by IanMitchell
Shows what we hear is from the media, they control pretty much everything.

But if you're that interested in something, the internet will tell you pretty much all you want to know from one source or another.

Why rely on the 'here and now' popular media to keep you up to date?

I think it's not just the media that loses interest.

It's just terrible news that we are witnessing on the TV at the moment. The volume of casualties is escalting by day. What a sad way to end the year.

Kady

What I find strange is the lack of any public expression of concern or sympathy for the victims of this enormous tragedy from Bush or Blair etc. Perhaps they're too busy enjoying their holidays ?

Jack Straw did appear on TV to reassure British citizens who had lost their passports in the chaos of all this, that they would be allowed back into the country [but I don't think he liked the idea very much - and some of the poor sods will probably be followed around by MI5 for months].

Rogers
You think you're the only one thats compassionate, claim you have a big heart ? strange ,as compassionate people with big hearts don't usualy brag, boasting about it dosen't impress me one bit, i work with Alzheimers people every day, what do you do for a living ?

poppins

numbers are reaching over 50,000. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4129371.stm

Donate online via the Red Cross today...
http://www.redcross.org.uk/news_subsection.asp?id=40238

Former German Chancellor Helmut Kohl was on holiday in Sri Lanka's pristine south -- one of the areas most devastated by tsunamis.

Kohl and his entourage were evacuated Tuesday from a hotel by the Sri Lankan air force.

"The helicopter went and we managed to bring him back with six others," Commander Air Marshal Donald Perera told The Associated Press.

Few celebrities have been affected

Originally posted by kall_sheff
Former German Chancellor Helmut Kohl was on holiday in Sri Lanka's pristine south -- one of the areas most devastated by tsunamis.

Kohl and his entourage were evacuated Tuesday from a hotel by the Sri Lankan air force.

"The helicopter went and we managed to bring him back with six others," Commander Air Marshal Donald Perera told The Associated Press.

Few celebrities have been affected

I know that Sir Richard Attenborough has lost about three members of his family, his daughter in law, and her mother, and one of his grandchildren. three other members , including another grandchild of the family (at the last report) are reported as having been injured but that they are now safe

PT

"BRITAIN: London sent an aircraft with plastic sheets and tents worth 250,000 pounds ($481,500) to Sri Lanka. It said it was contributing 370,000 pounds to the EU aid effort and a further $100,000 to the World Health Organisation for relief efforts."

This seems pitiful. I guess we'll do better in days and weeks to come. Contribution from USA seems no better. Aussies seem to be leading the way.

"AUSTRALIA: Australia sent four air force transport planes with supplies and medical specialists to the western Indonesian island of Sumatra and committed $7.6 million to the international relief effort."

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L27633773.htm

I'm not up to speed on how to donate myself. Who are the Disasters Emergency Committee? Would it be better to give to the Red Cross?

Originally posted by Rodgers
Monies donated via OXFAM will not reach these people. Banks and Mosques are the places to take donations to. Red Cross have also got arrangements, Clothing and other items are badly needed. We should think ourselves so lucky. Maybe this is a lesson to all.

I beg to differ.....

According to an e-mail I received yesterday from Oxfam they are involved in relief operations, so a contribution to them will allow them to halp make a difference.

Joe

Originally posted by May_Dupnam
"BRITAIN: London sent an aircraft with plastic sheets and tents worth 250,000 pounds ($481,500) to Sri Lanka. It said it was contributing 370,000 pounds to the EU aid effort and a further $100,000 to the World Health Organisation for relief efforts."

This seems pitiful. I guess we'll do better in days and weeks to come. Contribution from USA seems no better. Aussies seem to be leading the way.

"AUSTRALIA: Australia sent four air force transport planes with supplies and medical specialists to the western Indonesian island of Sumatra and committed $7.6 million to the international relief effort."

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L27633773.htm

I'm not up to speed on how to donate myself. Who are the Disasters Emergency Committee? Would it be better to give to the Red Cross?

The sheeting was what was actually requested - better get stuff on the ground that can be immediately put to use than have all sorts of stuff that's useful but not urgently required.

Also, it's in Australia's backyard - we might expect them to be generous. The regional governments themselves need to think about their own actions in the past - I believe that they pooh-poohed the idea of a Tsunami warning network because of expense.

This isn't the time for UK / USA bashing.

The Disasters Emergency Committee is a clearing organisation for aid agencies. If you want to contribute go there, although the Red Cross, OXFAM and similar organisations won't turn you away!

Joe

Originally posted by Rodgers
cheers phan

It seems that there are too may that take life for granted. If others do not, Then I for one think that I am a lucky person. I rarely complain, But, I would say to those that criticize my opinions to take a long look in the mirror. I myself have heard too many jokes already about this disaster. Those that have a mind, so evil as to think up these jokes have no place within the human race. I heard several in the Bookies today, mainly about placing bets on the disaster. I have walked out of there and will certainly complain to William Hill's

Sometimes humour is a defence to what we can't immediately deal with. Perhaps I mix with more tactful people - I've yet to hear a joke about this incident but I'm sure I will eventually.

Mind you, I view gambling as basically a means of making money for the wealthy, so never go in a bookies! :)

And lots of us are concerned about life, and don't take it for granted. It's just that we celebrate the sanctity of life by the our way we live it, attempting to be charitable by money or deeds day in, day out, rather than spending our time hand wringing when a large disaster comes along. The best way to deal with these disasters is to ensure that aid agencies are equipped all year around with funds and resources to go in to action without needing to wait for an extra appeal to be made. It's also to ensure that governments in such natural disaster prone areas spend their funds appropriately - A fraction of the money spent by India in sabre-rattling by designing and constructing nuclear weapons could have helped fund that Tsunami warning network that I mentioned above.

Joe

I have donated some money via the British Red Cross disaster appeal (tel 08705 125125), as I feel it is the least I can do. I would urge anyone who can afford it to donate (however little), as this disaster is so huge it is beyond comprehension. Even watching it on the news reduces me to tears so I have to turn off the television.

Please help if you can.

mouse

Originally posted by Rodgers
cheers phan

It seems that there are too may that take life for granted. If others do not, Then I for one think that I am a lucky person. I rarely complain, But, I would say to those that criticize my opinions to take a long look in the mirror. I myself have heard too many jokes already about this disaster. Those that have a mind, so evil as to think up these jokes have no place within the human race. I heard several in the Bookies today, mainly about placing bets on the disaster. I have walked out of there and will certainly complain to William Hill's

there's always going to be jokes flying around, thats the english sense of humour, i was on a trip to uk, staying in london the day lady Di died, jokes were flying around before she was even cold, bookies were taking bets on the funeral arrangements. I myself didn't see too many people upset over it, just the ones on tv who took a day off work.

We'll be making donations to the disaster emergency committee but feel that we should be doing more. Does anyone have any ideas on how we can help more, and fast? Would love to hear from anyone wanting to do something so that these poor people might live to see 2005.

Comment on this thread (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24595) mate and see what fellow forumers have suggested and discussed.

Dee :)

I'd feel alot more comfortable hearing reports from journalists in the area on what they were doing to help the rescue operation. How often do these parasites prey on other people's misery. We seem to be reaching the end of the real news and have arrived at the distasteful stage where they prowl about poking their noses into peoples' despair.

Thanks for the phone numbers. I'll be making use of them.

Thanks for that deejay. Many kind hearted people have made their individual donations but I still feel we should be doing much more.

One of the contributors to Counterpunch - the best radical on-line journal (IMHO) at http://www.counterpunch.org/ is suggesting:

"If you're trying to figure out a way to help but do not want your dollars sucked into a huge bureaucracy, you can help the Indonesian area of Aceh via the East Timor Action Network. http://www.etan.org/action/action2/23alert.htm#Donate to Aceh relief

Threads merged.

Originally posted by Rodgers
Monies donated via OXFAM will not reach these people. Banks and Mosques are the places to take donations to. Red Cross have also got arrangements, Clothing and other items are badly needed. We should think ourselves so lucky. Maybe this is a lesson to all.

Thats a fairly substantial claim - would you care to back it up...

Originally posted by poppins
there's always going to be jokes flying around, thats the english sense of humour, i was on a trip to uk, staying in london the day lady Di died, jokes were flying around before she was even cold, bookies were taking bets on the funeral arrangements. I myself didn't see too many people upset over it, just the ones on tv who took a day off work.

I think that having a sense of humour is one of the most useful tools for getting through life, and can be a way off letting off some pressure when life it at it’s darkest (so long as the butt of the joke is either out of ear shot, or being laughed WITH as opposed to AT). Remember that peoples’ feelings can be unintentionally hurt by appearances of flippancy (as I know to my chagrin from personal experience…).

I just made a donation through this page here

http://www.bluepeter.redcross.org.uk/tsappeal/appeal.htm

was quick and easy to do. :)

Any idea how many Brits are missing so far ?

This has reminded me of a program I watched that said that if a volcanoe in the Canary Islands (can't remember which one) collapses it will create a tidal wave that would destroy New York.
At the time I though "yeah, right, like a tidal wave can travel that far", looks like it wasn't just a gang of scientists guessing what might happen, it realy is that scary.

Originally posted by nick2
This has reminded me of a program I watched that said that if a volcanoe in the Canary Islands (can't remember which one) collapses it will create a tidal wave that would destroy New York.
At the time I though "yeah, right, like a tidal wave can travel that far", looks like it wasn't just a gang of scientists guessing what might happen, it realy is that scary.

It is still slight conjecture. Whether an avalanche could release the same amount of energy as one of the biggest earthquakes ever recorded is not really known.

But, yes, having said that, don't underestimate how powerful nature can be, and remember that however clever we think we are there are some things that we can't control.

If it did happen to New York do you think that we would now be involved in a "war on earthquakes"?

Originally posted by Yodameister
If it did happen to New York do you think that we would now be involved in a "war on earthquakes"?

LOL - but seriously, if the mountain is that unstable then a well aimed nuke might trigger the landslide and resulting tidal wave, something a terrorist group might consider (if they could buy a nuke).

Originally posted by nick2
LOL - but seriously, if the mountain is that unstable then a well aimed nuke might trigger the landslide and resulting tidal wave, something a terrorist group might consider (if they could buy a nuke).

I'm not quite sure how easy it would be to calculate how to do it. (well, to be more accurate I'm fairly sure it would be horrendously complicated if not impossible with our current knowledge)

Originally posted by Yodameister
I'm not quite sure how easy it would be to calculate how to do it. (well, to be more accurate I'm fairly sure it would be horrendously complicated if not impossible with our current knowledge)

I was just thinking of dropping a bomb into the crack in the mountine then detonating it ?

Here are some satellite images put together by the National Remote Sensing Agency, Dept. of Space, Govt. of India. An 8Mb powerpoint slideshow: http://www.kuntes.net/images/ts2004.pps

and a more compact PDF version: http://www.sheelblog.com/tsunami/tsunami2004.pdf

More satellite images: http://www.weatherstation.org.uk/earthquake.html

Hi-Res Images:
http://www.digitalglobe.com/tsunami_gallery.html
http://www.digitalglobe.com/images/tsunami/Sri_Lanka_Tsunami_Damage.pdf

Holiday Snaps: http://www.pbase.com/issels/phuket_tsunami

Video's of the wave: http://video.contemporaryinsanity.org/ (this site may be a bit slow)

Donate at the Disasters Emergency Committee: http://www.dec.org.uk/

K.

Originally posted by JoePritchard

This isn't the time for UK / USA bashing.

Joe

I think I was right to describe the amount of relief offered so far as pitiful. It's not a mission of mine to "bash" any country, I was just trying to put the figures into perspective.

For example one Eurofighter costs between £30 and £35 million. On 17th Dec 2004 the government announced plans to buy a total of 232 planes. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4103597.stm

Western governments can afford much more on our behalf. We can of course still make personal contributions.

U.N. official slams U.S. as 'stingy' over aid http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20041228-122330-7268r.htm ... politicians in the United States and Europe "believe that they are really burdening the taxpayers too much, and the taxpayers want to give less. It's not true. They want to give more."

Ocean disaster toll hits 114,000

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4135099.stm

Will it ever stop climbing :o

Originally posted by Yodameister

If it did happen to New York do you think that we would now be involved in a "war on earthquakes"?

We'd certainly be involved....any tsunami originating in the Azores would I'm sure affect the British Isles. I too saw that programme and STR it was suggested the initial wave would be around 30+ metres high.

Originally posted by IanMitchell
Ocean disaster toll hits 114,000

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4135099.stm

Will it ever stop climbing :o

Not for weeks. There was a clip on the news showing a young child with gangrene infecting facial abrasions - little hope for him I fear and there will be hundreds like him and thousands more dying from typhus and cholera etc. due to a lack of clean water supplies and sewage disposal systems knocked out by the floods.

The final death toll hardly bears thinking about.

128,000 according to radio an hour or two ago...........

They also reported that in the past two days people in the UK have donated a total of £20 million.

I dont know what to say on both counts............

The fact that ordinary people have contributed £20 million to the relief funds seems to have shamed the government into increasing its own contribution to £50 million.

Originally posted by nick2
This has reminded me of a program I watched that said that if a volcanoe in the Canary Islands (can't remember which one) collapses it will create a tidal wave that would destroy New York.
At the time I though "yeah, right, like a tidal wave can travel that far", looks like it wasn't just a gang of scientists guessing what might happen, it realy is that scary.

I saw that same documentary. The island in question is Gran Canaria. More frightningly, the question was not 'if', but 'when' the event would happen.

They said the resulting tidal wave, caused by the collapse of much of Gran Canria into the sea, will destroy the whole of the eastern seaboard in the States.

Originally posted by eviljock
The fact that ordinary people have contributed £20 million to the relief funds seems to have shamed the government into increasing its own contribution to £50 million. And all without a telethon. Just goes to show we really do have our hearts in the right places. At least some of us do. There's Brits on the Thai beaches still. Anybody capable of leaving, should, unless they're helping.

Couple of points of information for anyone interested.

The DEC (Disasters Emergency Committee) was setup quite a while ago in direct response to massive events that involved a large number of charity groups such as Red Cross, Oxfam, Help the Aged, etc...

Amongst other things they responded to the Kosovo Refuge Crisis, 9/11, Sudan and a whole load more... so it's an established British co-operative response group.

Originally posted by Strix
There's Brits on the Thai beaches still. Anybody capable of leaving, should, unless they're helping.

Sorry Strix, that's just not so.
Some of these areas are solely dependant on tourism for their livelyhoods. As sad as the catastrophe is, the last thing the locals want is for the tourists to run away and future visitors to be frightened off. It's not just me. I have heard Thais saying this themselves.
Those remaining are doing their own little bit by showing the world that life does go on. They have been through it and are entitled to their own choices.
Their money is improving the recovery as of now. The UK donations are still mobilising their efforts.

There has been some questions raised about the relative slowness of the relief agencies' response. I telephoned several times to make a donation and was unable to get through.

Have the relief agencies been caught on the hop, because this happened in the middle of the Christmas period when everybody is off work, in some cases, perhaps, in no fit state to report to work?

Or perhaps it is because the disaster is spread over so many different countries? Normally such events are restricted to one or two countries.

Should Tony Blair have cut short his holiday, in response to the disaster? Would this have made any difference, or would it simply be a gesture? In my opinion he should have.

Normally Britain would have been able to deploy field medical support but when Geoff Hoon peered into his box to see how many soldiers were left, it was empty. :mad:

Relief agencies can't get through because there are very few roads left once the arrive, people have to get to them, they can't get to the people just yet, also i heard the a lot of the land mines there have thrown around, many have landed on the beaches, don't know how true that is though, if they had as many land mines there as they say it was certainly a well kept secret fro the tourists don't you think ?

Originally posted by Lickszz
There has been some questions raised about the relative slowness of the relief agencies' response. I telephoned several times to make a donation and was unable to get through.
Erm... to be fair and rather blunt... The response to this has been unprecedented with a VERY large percentage of people trying to:
a) contribute to the relief effort
b) get information about loved ones
c) find out more general information (media, etc..)

Add to that, that this happened on Boxing Day and people have been on bank holiday so the offices aren't staffed as normal and confusion must reign supreme as people are tracked down at relatives, etc... to get things moving.

Then add to that the sheer area covered and the need to work out where, when, who, what, etc... is required...

Anyone sitting there and complaining that not enough is being done quickly enough when they haven't even organised so much as a childrens party in the past should shuttup and get the heck out of the way... Anything else is just unnecessary wool gathering and yet another example of people whining about something instead of providing constructive input, money or other resources...


In short, the armchair quarterbacks should put up or shuttup... because no matter how simple it "looks" it's beyond their comprehension to even tackle 1% of 1% of just how impossible the whole situation is...

Looks like the insurance companies are getting off without paying out anything - natural disasters are excluded.

There is a fundraising lunch & sale in Heeley on New Year's Day from 2-8pm organised by Steve. There is a £2 min contribution for lunch of aloo gobi, channa massalla, veg dhal etc (all vegan). Feel free to bring vegan salad, condiments, drink.

You can also just come along for the sale of items from affected areas or the "bring & buy" of unwanted xmas gifts or other bric-a-brac. You might pick up a bargain from Annie's slimmed down vase collection ...

Proceeds to relief funds and sanai orphanage in tamil nadu (I think I have these details correct). If interested please call Steve on 0114 281 1985.

Originally posted by Lickszz
I telephoned several times to make a donation and was unable to get through.


If you can't get through on the phones, you can donate online at www.dec.org.uk or at your local post office and most banks. Oxfam shops can also accept donations. You can donate by posting a cheque or postal order to:
DEC Tsunami Earthquake Appeal
PO Box 999
LONDON
EC3A 3AA

A list of other organisations who are helping in the region and accepting donations is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4131881.stm

Originally posted by cgksheff
Sorry Strix, that's just not so.
Those remaining are doing their own little bit by showing the world that life does go on. They have been through it and are entitled to their own choices.
Their money is improving the recovery as of now. The UK donations are still mobilising their efforts. I've no objection to people spending money in whatever extablishments are capable of trading, however I'm appalled that anybody can lounge about watching somebody else scrambling through the wreckage that was once their livelihood and home, possibly still looking for missing members of their family.

We all have choices, but it's always the people who think it's somebody else's problem or somebody else's responsiblity that expect everybody else to come running to their aid if something goes wrong.

Originally posted by Lickszz
Normally Britain would have been able to deploy field medical support but when Geoff Hoon peered into his box to see how many soldiers were left, it was empty. :mad: We were just discussing the role that the British Forces usually play in these incidents. Isn't it usually the tanks that go in first to the cut off villages?

Originally posted by Andy
If you can't get through on the phones, you can donate online at www.dec.org.uk or at your local post office and most banks. Oxfam shops can also accept donations. You can donate by posting a cheque or postal order to:
DEC Tsunami Earthquake Appeal
PO Box 999
LONDON
EC3A 3AA

A list of other organisations who are helping in the region and accepting donations is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4131881.stm
Thanks for that but I've already got through now. It was a massive advert in the national press thatn ran for a couple of days and obviously there wasn't enough lines/people in place to deal with the demand for one reason or another.

Originally posted by Lickszz
obviously there wasn't enough lines/people in place to deal with the demand for one reason or another.

I think the scale of people's generosity has taken the charities by suprise. My bank opened an account for donations yesterday afternoon, and in 24 hours my small branch has taken over £500. This is despite the fact that we've been much less busy than usual due to the holiday period.

Neither I nor my colleagues can remember an appeal in the past where such an amount of money has been raised so quickly.

Originally posted by spinac
There is a fundraising lunch & sale in Heeley on New Year's Day from 2-8pm organised by Steve. There is a £2 min contribution for lunch of aloo gobi, channa massalla, veg dhal etc (all vegan). Feel free to bring vegan salad, condiments, drink.

You can also just come along for the sale of items from affected areas or the "bring & buy" of unwanted xmas gifts or other bric-a-brac. You might pick up a bargain from Annie's slimmed down vase collection ...

Proceeds to relief funds and sanai orphanage in tamil nadu (I think I have these details correct). If interested please call Steve on 0114 281 1985.

this sounds great! If I can get there (transport permitting) i will! it'd be nice to do something positive.

what's the venue? (you didn't say)

PT

Seems you can also donate yoyr Frequent Flyer Miles or
through E Bay you sales or purchases.

Had an awful thought last night watching all this on tv last night, i wonder how many of those so called dead people were still alive when they were bulldozed in the graves and set a fire ? i never saw any one checking out the bodies to see if they were completly dead.

Hey up, the yanks have realised they should donate more dosh and have now stumped up 350 million bucks [was just 35]. UK donations now 45 million. Just hope it gets to them in time...

Originally posted by poppins
Had an awful thought last night watching all this on tv last night, i wonder how many of those so called dead people were still alive when they were bulldozed in the graves and set a fire ? i never saw any one checking out the bodies to see if they were completly dead.

not everything appears on television, especially in the competition for arresting images.

The choices that people are making out there will result in deaths, irrespective of their decsions.. I don't envy them in the least.

Originally posted by Strix
We were just discussing the role that the British Forces usually play in these incidents. Isn't it usually the tanks that go in first to the cut off villages?

The U.N. Refugee organisation does not have the infrastructure available to operate over 5 or 6 countries - it needs help, primarily people who are experienced in co-ordinating logistical assets over long lines of communication.

As of now, there is a problem, the problem is one of scale and insufficient people who can make decisions on moving the aid where it is required. The scale of the problem is gigantic, so big, that to quote Kofi Annan who conceded yesterday - one organisation simply cannot cope.

Money has been quickly collected in - what is needed right now is people who are experienced in moving aid through long distances with very little local infrastructure to help (no trucks, no fuel, no decent roads, no communications, no emergency medical support). These are things that for example the British Armed Forces could have managed at some locations - but we don't have any men available

From what I heard yesterday the Australians have moved a field hospital plus Logistics support into one area and the Dutch armed forces are planning the same but were I believe looking for a partner (perhaps the Germans).

IMO, It is quite embarrassing that the British can't help without closing an NHS hospital.

This is a disaster the likes as anyone as never ever seen before. There is no way that we can deal with this other than step by step. Many may suffer whilst waiting for help. No-one could ever have forcast the number of deaths and injuries. This is new to all of us. There is no such thing as experience. Because we have never experienced this. The only time that aid has ever been needed on such a scale was during and at the end of the war. Then we had thousands of troops already mobilized. The idea of a central disaster unit, made up of all wealthy countries is good. The world has so much wealth to share. There would be no-one going hungry or wanting. Maybe this is eutopia. who knows. But, I think those that are at the front of all these operations are very courageous and dedicated people. We cannot stop nature from doing this to us, But we could learn from this. I say that we must learn from this. At the moment all we can come up with is suppositions, and what if's. We all become experts in one way or another, We all feel the effects, We all want to do something. The biggest frustration is that we sit back and know that we cannot do anything. But, Life must go on. We cannot change what has happened. All we can do is to learn by this. We need to learn that we must help each other, understand each other, whether it be our next door neighbour or in this small world someone that lives in Borneo just down the road from us. It only comes home to us when we see these disasters live. for example when we have a neighbour that loses thier home to a fire. Do we sit back and say " to hell with it " we are lucky ". Any one that can do that has no heart.

Sorry for the sermon folks. But I have friends that have suffered in Indonesia and they would be saying what I have just said.

My brother is on his way to the region aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72). The ship just cleared the Strait of Malacca and entered the Indian Ocean. They will soon get on station and begin relief operations in the region.

For more information: USS Abraham Lincoln (http://www.cvn72.navy.mil/)

:)

What is happening to the world?? Even the weather in the UK has deteriorated in the past decade. Events such as the one in the film " the day after tommorow" may happen one day, who knows??
I am deeply shocked by what has happened. I feel for the people who have lost their families,homes, just everything.
And here we are moaning about the weather here. We should be grateful.

I just hope that people like Bin Laden and Al Quida see what a caring and compassionate lot we are in the West.

I think it would be difficult for them to stump up even 1% of what we have managed to raise so far.

Originally posted by Sony
What is happening to the world?? Even the weather in the UK has deteriorated in the past decade. Events such as the one in the film " the day after tommorow" may happen one day, who knows??

I agree with you on the subject of climate change (witness how mild winters in Sheffield are now compared to the deep snow a decade ago) but the disaster in Asia had nothing to do with climate change, but instead was a natural disaster / act of God.

India has refused our help because they say they can cope and they have sent aid to Sri Lanka, and a hospital ship with 50 beds.

I think that tops the western contribution. I'm gobsmacked.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2188rank.html

A bit curious about India
current account of various governments from a US website .looks like India is well off.

Originally posted by Strix
India has refused our help because they say they can cope and they have sent aid to Sri Lanka, and a hospital ship with 50 beds.


It's mainly because they're saying and proving a point that they don't need to rely on the west anymore.

It's nice to see that the USA has been quick to realise the commercial opportunities that 'rebuilding' brings. And this time they get to use other peoples money too!

Cliff Richard and some other pop stars are to release a record to raise money from DEC - they hope to raise 2 million quid - think they will get a lot more than that ....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4140133.stm

It's nice to see that the USA has been quick to realise the commercial opportunities that 'rebuilding' brings. And this time they get to use other peoples money too!

What an inflamitory comment for a moderator! My brother will soon be in the area with the USS Abraham Lincoln. From what I understand, they will NOT be looking for monitary gain but rather helping in what ever capacity is needed. (ie, collecting dead bodies, clearing roads, providing basic needs to survivors, building shelters, providing medical treatment and relocating survivors, etc...)

Monitary gain from the reconstruction will be through private sector companies from around the world including several EU nations not just the US. People who live in glass houses should not throw bricks!

Originally posted by Chicago
What an inflamitory comment for a moderator!

Sorry to tell you this, but it's almost obligatory to have an irrational hatred of the USA and all it stands for before you can become a moderator on this forum. Sad but true.

I have the opportunity to go out there to asist in the identification of the western victims but I have to go immunisations quickly as they want us there asap. I think I have to wait until Tuesday and then try to get in with the GP along with everyone else. Anyone know where else might stock vaccines and be ready to go?
I need Diphtheria, typhoid, hepatitis A, Polio and Cholera. Not sure about cholera though and may need some others. Are these ready stocked or do they have to be sent for? I've never been anywhere hot that requires them?:help:

Diphtheria, typhoid, hepatitis A and Polio will be readily available at most GP's surgeries and are usually administered by the practice nurse. I'm sure that at least 3 of them are covered in a combination vaccine.

Depending on your GP, you might encounter some problem with Cholera vaccine. Vaccines were withdrawn in the UK for a few years as being inneffective (or suggesting that the risks with the vaccine outweighed the risk of catching cholera).
Dukoral was licensed earlier this year and should be available. Your "Aid Organisation" should be able to give specific guidance if you encounter problems.

You should be aware that cholera immunisation requires two injections separated by at least 7 days and the 2nd injection should be at least 7 days before exposure to infection.

If you have some form of documentation from your "Aid Organisation" supporting your urgent need to travel to endemic areas, I would suggest that you try your GP's out-of-hours service to see if you can get something today or tomorrow.

Good luck.

Where do you expect to go?

pipupig
The Police force and also the Military are prepared for these inocculations. Even a Force ME would have access to these. I have had this problem before. The Hospital arranged ours.

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned (it's quite a long thread now)but....

Does anyone know of any collection points for clothes, utensils, etc. etc. in Sheffield? I know they are doing this in other places in the UK then sending parcels over direct.

Anyone help?

Originally posted by rtapper
Cliff Richard and some other pop stars are to release a record to raise money from DEC - they hope to raise 2 million quid - think they will get a lot more than that ....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4140133.stm

At the risk of getting flamed,Why should these people (usually has beens or 2nd rate celebs) inflict a record that probably no one would normally buy on us.It is emotional blackmail,why don't they just donate some of their own money? It would appear that the general public are way ahead in this matter and doing a damn fine job of it too.

Originally posted by bonny

Does anyone know of any collection points for clothes, utensils, etc. etc. in Sheffield?

Anyone help?
Bonny,
Oxfam are saying they just cannot cope with the amount of clothing etc that people are bringing to them.It does not go out to these places but is sold here and the cash used.So the best thing seems to donate cash if you can,every bit helps.

I thought that I had seen that one of the Asian Community organisations had started something, but I cannot find anything now.
Maybe someone else will know.

I would have thought (and have read elsewhere) that the cost of airlifting goods from Europe can often be higher than the cost of local purchase. There is no shortage of clothes and spoons etc. in these countries. More a case of that they need to be purchased and moved into the disaster zones.

Cash would appear to be the most beneficial way of helping from here at the moment.

Oxfam (amongst others) will always be happy to your accept goods that they can sell in their shops to turn into cash for aid purposes.

If you feel that the large organisations become a bit anonymous and want to help something a bit more direct, read this: http://expatforum.digitaldevelopment.com/read.cfm?channel=18&msgid=36211&thread=36209&offset=0

After seeing literally hundreds of orphans and families split up on an ITV program me and my family donated last night.

Did anyone see that program about it, it was a special program asking for donations.

Nearly had me crying over my sunday dinner!

Our neighbours organised a New Year's Party as usual at the local hall.
This time when people asked to contribute to the catering/hall hire etc. they said "No. Let's collect for the DEC Appeal."
£162.
Great Idea.

Just a bit of a query. on new years eve i phoned the DEC line and made a donation, however i just checked my bank account and nothing has come out of it. It was a recorded line thing and i'm a bit worried that it hasn't worked. has anyne else donated this way and had a similar thing?

Any donations made by direct debit will be a little slower than usual, It is because of the holidays and backlog. Also some Banks have had problems with the extra work load they have had. I made enquiries at Lloyds over another type of direct debit.

I am not a lover of the USA but, Here we have a case of damned if you do, Damned if you do not. I do not think that commerce is on the minds of the US at the moment. After all they are agreeing to suspend all debts at this time. What sickens me is the crime that this has created. Kidnapping etc Looting. These people should face the death penalty if caught. We should also be looking at the positive side of all the help and the countries that are contributing. Not trying to find a motive for the reason they are helping. I sometimes question those that advertise the amount they have donated, Such as a woman stating she had given £2000 of her savings, Does she want a medal. Most of us donate what we can we do not state how much or how hard it is for us to do so. I am seeing a lot of hypocracy coming to the fore now. Maybe we should keep to what is happening out there and even our own ideas etc. I know a guy that gave £5. today, Just about all he had. I admire him for that, But, I was also shocked to find out that the people he gave the money to were con men. No-One has mentioned the fact that there are a lot of conmen cashing in on this, Going round with make shift tins Buckets etc. These idiots need catching and jailing

Originally posted by Sal22
Just a bit of a query. on new years eve i phoned the DEC line and made a donation, however i just checked my bank account and nothing has come out of it.

Debit card transactions don't normally show on your account for a couple of days.

post your stories here about this terrible tragedy, stories that some of us havent heard about!!!!

Hi Janice, there is already a 9 page thread about it here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24595)

Mod: Merged Thread

Anyone else have 3 minutes silence at work today ? :(

How come it was 3 minutes ?

i observed it but it didnt feel like 3 minutes.

The whole thing makes me sick to the stomach i know it
was bad but it was a natural disaster and its not as if
England has not got enough problems of its own to
deal with our Hospitals and railways are going up
the spout and look at the army no money for any them
but money for people who have nothing to do with England
what gives why cant we just look after ourselves for once
England first and then them.:rant:

We have may have problems, but nothing on this scale....

All in the same week that they closed the footpath guided tours in The Lake District due to lack of money... :suspect:

Originally posted by Sniper
The whole thing makes me sick to the stomach i know it
was bad but it was a natural disaster and its not as if
England has not got enough problems of its own to
deal with our Hospitals and railways are going up
the spout and look at the army no money for any them
but money for people who have nothing to do with England
what gives why cant we just look after ourselves for once
England first and then them.:rant:

Do you seriously think you deserve an answer???????????

Originally posted by twinky1
Do you seriously think you deserve an answer??????????? I have a right to freedom of speech and so do you so i dont care if you answer or not thats your right:thumbsup:

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Sniper
I have a right to freedom of speech and so do you so i dont care if you answer or not thats your right:thumbsup:


And I for one uphold you right to talk s**t

IMHO they need all the help they can get.......

I think they deserve some of my money purely because it is the generous thing to do.

It does seem a bit hypocritical on the part of the world - recall seeing that sri lanka and indonesias debt INTEREST would be in the region of $3 billion for one year, yet one major tradedy happens and everybody suddenly forgets how much we take off them.

And right now, throwing yet more money at the railways and the hospitals is not the answer - better use of existing funding is much more important.

If you choose not to give your money, its your decision completely - I certainly won't criticise you for it, but I don't feel happy in the knowledge i'm sat here with my broadband connection, central heating, warm clothes, when so many people have been made homeless through no fault of their own.

Originally posted by Sniper
England first and then them.:rant:

So, care to tell us at what point would your greed be satiated enough to begin show compassion for your fellow human beings?

Hmm. 'England first' eh? Well that's the Scots, Welsh, Cornish, and Irish alienated too.

Nomme

Last time I checked, the government were there as much as a representative of our culture, values and our collective will as anything else. So take that along with the fact that there has NEVER been such a tremendous willingness by the people of this country to put their money where there mouth is... and you have your answer...

I've been involved in a number of the older DEC emergency appeals including the Indian Cyclone, Kosovo Appeal and we didn't make even close to the amount that has been contributed to date...


As for talking about walking paths in the lake district... good grief... where on earth is your sense of proportion... :loopy:

(Tongue in cheek my friend).

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
(Tongue in cheek my friend).
Oh lord... ok... duly noted... *dumb moment cancelled* :gag:

No probs mate!
I took the original posting to be one of those Trojan Horse thingies where it's pushed in to just cause a load of trouble...
I was kind of 'joining in'.
In the light of there being no :sarcastic: smiley I used the only one I thought looked sarcastic!

Have a good 2005!:clap:

Originally posted by Sniper
The whole thing makes me sick to the stomach i know it
was bad but it was a natural disaster and its not as if
England has not got enough problems of its own to
deal with our Hospitals and railways are going up
the spout and look at the army no money for any them
but money for people who have nothing to do with England
what gives why cant we just look after ourselves for once
England first and then them.:rant:

Why don't you swap places with some of the people affected by the tsunami?

Wouldn't you want foreign aid then?

Nationalists like yourself sicken me.

Sending aid, it's the right thing to do and I'm impressed that many of our people have shown morals by donating so much money.

As someone has already said, we do have problems- but can we seriously compare them to the Tsunami disaster.

I would only like to make one observation on this subject....
If England were to have a natural disaster of biblical proportions........Who would aid the UK? as it seems that we always have to help other countries that cannot help themselves.
If they cannot help themselves even in calm times.....who would be there to help the UK citizens?

By the way!!! I did contribute!

Originally posted by Sniper
The whole thing makes me sick to the stomach i know it
was bad but it was a natural disaster and its not as if
England has not got enough problems of its own to
deal with our Hospitals and railways are going up
the spout and look at the army no money for any them
but money for people who have nothing to do with England
what gives why cant we just look after ourselves for once
England first and then them.:rant:

Sniper,

They're in a worse situation than we are and even in a very self-centered, geopolitical approach there would be advantages to offering visible aid to an area of the world that is getting an extremely biased view of the West from local media and extremists.

And, you talk about England - what about Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland? Or are you so bigoted that only England within the UK matters?

Joe

The good thing about giving to this disaster is that it WILL actually make a significant difference unlike all the money we've given to africa over the years which on the face of it seems no better off - people in africa suffer on a daily basis -

30,000 people EVERY DAY die of starvation in africa which is a daily Tsunami, now that puts things into perspective

The problem is that giving money to africa does not necessarily goto the people that need it but to governments who are often corrupt and use it to line their pockets or buy big fat guns

Originally posted by Delboy3
I would only like to make one observation on this subject....
If England were to have a natural disaster of biblical proportions........Who would aid the UK? as it seems that we always have to help other countries that cannot help themselves.
If they cannot help themselves even in calm times.....who would be there to help the UK citizens?

By the way!!! I did contribute!

Whilst not being a Europhile I'd probably expect that the European Union, the USA, the Commonwealth nations would chip in a little.

Joe

Sniper, how on earth can you compare our needs to those affected by this immense disaster. Where is your compassion and heart for heavens sake. These people were living in poverty before this happened and now thousands of them don't even have the love and support of their families to get them through.

Originally posted by Bedhead

The problem is that giving money to africa does not necessarily goto the people that need it but to governments who are often corrupt and use it to line their pockets or buy big fat guns

I hate to disappoint you, but, believe me, Indonesians are already lining their pockets from the relief operations and I have no reason to think that it is any different in the other countries.
This problem exist all over the world and our own little corner is not immune either.

While disliking it intensely, I regard it as an inevitable cost of my money being used for some benefit. If only 10% gets to the end user, I am very sad, but it is better than nothing.

how about we make sure everyone has the basics - food, shelter, medical assistance when needed, education and clean water?

I'm sure you all agree that the general public have raised a large (by individuals standards) sum of money.
BUT
How much interest are they paying on the development loans given to them by "first world" countries?

The answer to that is quite simple, they are paying out more in interest on their loans than the money we have raised. Shocking but true. If the governments froze the interest on the loan for 2 years they would have more than enough money of their own to rebuild.

If you want more information it is worth a look here:
http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/home.html

Originally posted by Sniper
The whole thing makes me sick to the stomach i know it
was bad but it was a natural disaster and its not as if
England has not got enough problems of its own to
deal with our Hospitals and railways are going up
the spout and look at the army no money for any them
but money for people who have nothing to do with England
what gives why cant we just look after ourselves for once
England first and then them.:rant:

Listen to yourself! Railway problems and hospital waiting lists pale into comparison when measured up to the Indian Ocean Tsunami. Entire generations of families have been wiped out, homes destroyed, businesses destroyed, no food - nothing. And yet you have the gall to complain about having to wait an extra 3 minutes for your train. A little bit of perspective wouldn't go amiss.

Originally posted by moongarden
how about we make sure everyone has the basics - food, shelter, medical assistance when needed, education and clean water?

I'm sure you all agree that the general public have raised a large (by individuals standards) sum of money.
BUT
How much interest are they paying on the development loans given to them by "first world" countries?

The answer to that is quite simple, they are paying out more in interest on their loans than the money we have raised. Shocking but true. If the governments froze the interest on the loan for 2 years they would have more than enough money of their own to rebuild.

If you want more information it is worth a look here:
http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/home.html

To his credit, isn't Brown trying to encourage developed countries to write off this debt? I'm sure I saw that on the news. With regards to the money getting to those that need it, if you donate to a responsible organisation like MSF or to the DEC, the money will be used to provide direct aid, rather than to potentially corrupt governments that will pocket the money.

Hiya Chris,

Indeed, Wee Gordon is trying to use his influence to get Debt reduced or written off.

However, and playing Devil's Advocate, it's quite interesting how countries affected by these disasters often manage to have quite a substantial military infrastructure, bought from the West, Russia or China.

Perhaps some governments need to determine whether the money they spend on defending themselves and internal policing might be best spent on ensuring that their citizens are safe form the more usual depradations of nature than possible attacks from foreign nations.

Joe

Originally posted by SlimboyFat
We have may have problems, but nothing on this scale.... Hmm. Someone was arguing a similar argument to this Sniper guy the other day. He figured that the talk of a massive disaster across 3 continents is just an attempt by the media to magnitise the event in order to have something to talk about. Something like 1 person has died on the East coast of Africa and 2 people in some Northern Australasian islands, and all of a sudden its "DISASTER ACROSS 3 CONTINENTS."
In addition he argued that its hardly a case of 'rebuilding Asia' as the media has pitched it. Asia has the largest population compared to any other continent with over a billion in India and over a billion and a half in China. When a couple of hundred thousand people die in Asia, its relative to a villages in Britain being wiped out, in terms of percentage of people to the territory. In this sense, its hardly on the scale for Asia that it is understood to be. For Asia, its not much skin off their nose. Thats if you are comfortable comparing and judging the measure of human life. I wasnt, life is life as far as Im concerned, but he raised a few interesting ideas.

Originally posted by moongarden
how about we make sure everyone has the basics - food, shelter, medical assistance when needed, education and clean water?

I'm sure you all agree that the general public have raised a large (by individuals standards) sum of money.
BUT
How much interest are they paying on the development loans given to them by "first world" countries?

The answer to that is quite simple, they are paying out more in interest on their loans than the money we have raised. Shocking but true. If the governments froze the interest on the loan for 2 years they would have more than enough money of their own to rebuild.

If you want more information it is worth a look here:
http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/home.html

The problem with writing off the debt of 'poor' countries means that we then lose our hold on how they spend their money to some extent - writing off debt would i'd assume mean that these countries would then not 'qualify' for any further aid but the people who need the money the most would still not gain - they'd still be living in poverty under a corrupt government with no potential of receiving anything

they'd probably be less likely to get anything at all given these countries track records - i mean look at all the billions of pounds that's gone into africa over the years but it's not really any better off - some improvements have been made however

what's needed is a way of ensuring that the money goes to the right people and like i said the only possibility of ensuring this is by having some sort of hold over these countries and a say in how they spend the money their given

it's a very complex issue though full of contradictions

I can not believe you would think like that let it no write it for others to read.
There was kids left with nothing a lot lost there families and all you give a s**t about is a stupid rail way and stuff.
I can’t even think about the poor people the kiddies that lives have been cut so short without my tummy turning.
Does it matter where the money comes from it our own choose if you don’t want to give then don’t.
But don’t judge them that do they only have a heart...
:( :mad:

Originally posted by Bedhead
The problem with writing off the debt of 'poor' countries means that we then lose our hold on how they spend their money to some extent - writing off debt would i'd assume mean that these countries would then not 'qualify' for any further aid but the people who need the money the most would still not gain - they'd still be living in poverty under a corrupt government with no potential of receiving anything

they'd probably be less likely to get anything at all given these countries track records - i mean look at all the billions of pounds that's gone into africa over the years but it's not really any better off - some improvements have been made however

what's needed is a way of ensuring that the money goes to the right people and like i said the only possibility of ensuring this is by having some sort of hold over these countries and a say in how they spend the money their given

it's a very complex issue though full of contradictions

There's a lot of good points you've raised there, but I think those are things that need to be done in addition to writing off a lot of the debts.

Not all the debts are the same, some were caused by unscrupulous dictators buying arms while their people starved, but some are as a result of Western Corporations basically defrauding them of their money in all but name.

As you say it is a complicated issue, and anyone who tells you it isn't doesn't understand what they are talking about.

Originally posted by Sniper
The whole thing makes me sick to the stomach

why cant we just look after ourselves for once
England first and then them.:rant:

Sniper is just trying to get a reaction here, he's realised nobody's mentioned this fact yet and thought it might get some folks debating angrily.

The fact is, Sniper just sounds like a tight-fisted, bigotted, cheapskate who has never been abroad and wonders why people dont like him.

My advice mate - get a life. Look at what is happening in the world and try to do a little more than sit ranting through your pc all day.

sniper did raise one viable point that people are skirting round, the british government does not equip its armed forces with enough decent equipment yet they will immediately find vast amounts of cash for other criteria,it is right to help others in need but we must alocate money for the safety of our defence forces as well.

We have a human and morale obligation to help our fellow human beings in the event of a crisis, we have to put ourselves in their position, if something of this scale happened to us we would expect the worlds attention and support to draw to us.

Its understandable that yes we do have our own problems at home, however we have to be recognised as a wealthy and supportive state which aids those less fortunate than ourselves.

Think about what we have, then think about what they have? Do you think its right that we have every technological and modern way of living available, yet these people dont even have fresh water or food!

Shame on you for even suggesting it.

Originally posted by youngmcgill
Shame on you for even suggesting it.

WELL SAID!:clap: :clap:

The guy's an absolute prat!.

Originally posted by youngmcgill
Think about what we have, then think about what they have? Do you think its right that we have every technological and modern way of living available, yet these people dont even have fresh water or food!


Millions of people don't have fresh water or reliable food supplies, do we help them too, or wait until they get hit by a natural disaster, then help them ?

Oh yer thats made me remember something else the guy I was talking to said (yeah, like any of you care :P ).
He said that thousands die every week in Asia from poverty and lack of food. In a typical year of neglect, more people in Asia die than in this one instance. Yet as soon as something for the media talk about happens, an 'event' as such, we are expected to rally around and hold 3 minute silences etc. Where was the concern week in week out for these poor people that you talk of? Again, quite a cynical argument but an interesting one.

Originally posted by Yodameister
...but I think those are things that need to be done in addition to writing off a lot of the debts.

Not all the debts are the same, some were caused by unscrupulous dictators buying arms while their people starved, but some are as a result of Western Corporations basically defrauding them of their money in all but name.

As you say it is a complicated issue, and anyone who tells you it isn't doesn't understand what they are talking about.

I totally agree that it is a very complicated issue. its not one that I claim to fully understand either, but i do know that its worth reminding those with the decision making power that they have moral obligations and need to act with some common decency

As a reluctant collectivist, traditional Tory I would usually say that Britain should hesitate before interfering in the business of others. However, this is clearly a tragic case of vast human suffering brought about by natural causes. Why should we , as a relatively rich country, not offer our help?

Maybe Delboy is correct regarding what would happen were the proverbial boot on the other foot. I have often suspected the same. Nevertheless, I can still see no reason why people should not offer help if they are so disposed. Money would be more useful than the ludicrous three minutes of silence as recommended by the bullying international regime that is the EU.

Joe P makes a cogent point too, re the benefits to national interests that such image-boosting "altruism" may bring in an age where Britain is increasingly seen as America's Bulldog and the enemy of Islam etc. Compare our contributions with those of the Saudis, for example.

However, our Lord Protector, Cromwell Blair [and his cabinet of wretched Roundheads] is using this natural disaster as an excuse to indulge in the typical international idealism and utopian panaceas he is famous for. Predictably, he is now announcing that he wishes to "end poverty" in Africa. The two tragedies should not be spoken about in the same breath. The former is one in which human agency plays no part. The latter is a complex case in which many variables play a part. There is no unitary CAUSE of African poverty, and no unitary CURE. Some may lay blame at the feet of Western banks, some may blame the Western -dominated, global network of production and exchange. Others might point to the impact of corrupt and incompetant African governments, the over-reliance upon the West, the effects of savage ethnic wars etc . Blair is the Prince of Fools if he genuinely thinks that he has the answer to African poverty, especially if that strategy involves throwing huge amounts of money at the problem. It is quite different to sending money to rebuild what nature has torn to shreds.

Originally posted by timo
However, our Lord Protector, Cromwell Blair [and his cabinet of wretched Roundheads] is using this natural disaster as an excuse to indulge in the typical international idealism and utopian panaceas he is famous for. Predictably, he is now announcing that he wishes to "end poverty" in Africa. The two tragedies should not be spoken about in the same breath. The former is one in which human agency plays no part. The latter is a complex case in which many variables play a part. There is no unitary CAUSE of African poverty, and no unitary CURE. Some may lay blame at the feet of Western banks, some may blame the Western -dominated, global network of production and exchange. Others might point to the impact of corrupt and incompetant African governments, the over-reliance upon the West, the effects of savage ethnic wars etc . Blair is the Prince of Fools if he genuinely thinks that he has the answer to African poverty, especially if that strategy involves throwing huge amounts of money at the problem. It is quite different to sending money to rebuild what nature has torn to shreds.

It seems Blair was taken aback both by the scale of the tragedy and the British people's generous attitude towards it. Canny politician that he is, he saw it as a good excuse to ride on the crest of the public's philanthropic wave (thus mentioning Africa, et al).

Funny that, originally, the tsunami just didn't carry enough political weight for him to cut his holiday short - yet now, it's the catalyst for his plans to bring about world peace and harmony.

Originally posted by Greenback
It seems Blair was taken aback both by the scale of the tragedy and the British people's generous attitude towards it. Canny politician that he is, he saw it as a good excuse to ride on the crest of the public's philanthropic wave (thus mentioning Africa, et al).

Funny that, originally, the tsunami just didn't carry enough political weight for him to cut his holiday short - yet now, it's the catalyst for his plans to bring about world peace and harmony.

Why exactly would Tony Blair cutting his holiday short have made a difference? did anyone die or get hurt that wouldnt have done so if he came back from his holiday? No!

Give him a break hes entitled to a holiday and theres only so much he can do, whether he ws in London or on the Moon, nothing would have been any different, get over it!

Originally posted by youngmcgill
Why exactly would Tony Blair cutting his holiday short have made a difference? did anyone die or get hurt that wouldnt have done so if he came back from his holiday? No!

Give him a break hes entitled to a holiday and theres only so much he can do, whether he ws in London or on the Moon, nothing would have been any different, get over it!

It would have shown that the government were tackling the issue with the utmost urgency, rather than in the slipshod manner they exhibited in the immediate aftermath of the disaster. As far as the holiday goes, that's politics - if Blair were an office worker using up some of his 20 days I'd agree with you. But the Prime Minister of the country has very different responsibilites, and coming back straight away would have shown he was using his power to do all that he could, rather than just the bare minimum.

Youngmcgill,
I think the point Greenback is trying to make is similar to mine. We both appear to find Blair's goody-goody earnestness quite exceptionally tedious. Rather like some horribly over eager Blue Peter kiddie on an Outward Bound course, his burning desire to rid the globe of poverty and all known diseases tends to grate somewhat. Neither Greenback nor I are suggesting that Blair is not entitled to a holiday, rather we don't see the point of his now predictable, grand, sweeping public gestures.

Originally posted by Greenback
It would have shown that the government were tackling the issue with the utmost urgency, rather than in the slipshod manner they exhibited in the immediate aftermath of the disaster. As far as the holiday goes, that's politics - if Blair were an office worker using up some of his 20 days I'd agree with you. But the Prime Minister of the country has very different responsibilites, and coming back straight away would have shown he was using his power to do all that he could, rather than just the bare minimum.

I think he wanted to wait and see the public reaction first, I do wonder if he would have sent any money at all if the public hadn't done so.

Originally posted by timo
Youngmcgill,
I think the point Greenback is trying to make is similar to mine. We both appear to find Blair's goody-goody earnestness quite exceptionally tedious. Rather like some horribly over eager Blue Peter kiddie on an Outward Bound course, his burning desire to rid the globe of poverty and all known diseases tends to grate somewhat. Neither Greenback nor I are suggesting that Blair is not entitled to a holiday, rather we don't see the point of his now predictable, grand, sweeping public gestures.

I take your opinions but dont accept them, I think in a realisitc world it wasnt necessary, the reality of the situation was that there is nothing that hasnt been done that would have been done should he have been in this country.

Personally I think its just another excuse for the Tories to have a jibe at the Labour government but in reality everything that could have been done has been. How many executives or managers of companies work from home or dont work in the office? Thats the wonder of modern technology.

I bet your are both not Labour voters...

Originally posted by timo
Youngmcgill,
I think the point Greenback is trying to make is similar to mine. We both appear to find Blair's goody-goody earnestness quite exceptionally tedious. Rather like some horribly over eager Blue Peter kiddie on an Outward Bound course, his burning desire to rid the globe of poverty and all known diseases tends to grate somewhat. Neither Greenback nor I are suggesting that Blair is not entitled to a holiday, rather we don't see the point of his now predictable, grand, sweeping public gestures.

What exactly would you expect? would you rather he ignored the fact that these problems existed? Its the job of the Prime Minister to care about these things and deal with them and continually highlight them as issues otherwise they get swept under the carpet. Its not an excuse to make him look better, its an excuse for the world to do something about these problems and thats what hes doing, trying to tacle them! If you find it tedious, put the televison off or look at the other issues as I think your blinkered to hear the things you want to hear!

Originally posted by youngmcgill
I take your opinions but dont accept them, I think in a realisitc world it wasnt necessary, the reality of the situation was that there is nothing that hasnt been done that would have been done should he have been in this country.

Personally I think its just another excuse for the Tories to have a jibe at the Labour government but in reality everything that could have been done has been. How many executives or managers of companies work from home or dont work in the office? Thats the wonder of modern technology.

I bet your are both not Labour voters...

Executives or managers of companies aren't the main figureheads of the country, though. As to whether they actually run the country...

I'd love to vote Labour, but as far as I'm concerned they don't exist any more.

Originally posted by Greenback
Executives or managers of companies aren't the main figureheads of the country, though. As to whether they actually run the country...

I'd love to vote Labour, but as far as I'm concerned they don't exist any more.

Tony Blair runs the country, so what hasnt he done that he could have if he was in London? Your moving to a whole new point and demonstrating more so that its your dislike for Tony Blair rather than something he has not done.

If you can demonstrate to me something Michael Howard could have done that Tony hasnt and something which Tony could have donehad he been in the country that he hasnt done by being in Egypt, ill vote conservative! You also omit to recognise that whilst in Egypt Tony was visiting other heads of state which is relevant to the development of our own country, he wasnt just sitting on the beach all day!

I think the point im trying to make is that this is just another excuse for Labour haters to have a jibe at Mr Blair, just like youve demonstrated its more your dislike for Mr Blair rather than something that he has not done. He cant be in his office 24/7 365. Everything that could be done has been.

Originally posted by youngmcgill
Tony Blair runs the country, so what hasnt he done that he could have if he was in London? Your moving to a whole new point and demonstrating more so that its your dislike for Tony Blair rather than something he has not done.

It's not just jibes about Blair, but recognition that our head of state can't have it both ways. If he was so concerned with the situation in Asia he'd have been back in a shot - that's what Prime Ministers do in response to major events. But it was only when he gauged the force of public reaction that he got his government into gear.

Originally posted by Greenback
It's not just jibes about Blair, but recognition that our head of state can't have it both ways. If he was so concerned with the situation in Asia he'd have been back in a shot - that's what Prime Ministers do in response to major events. But it was only when he gauged the force of public reaction that he got his government into gear.

Sorry but I still disagree, you still havent answered my question, what could he have done from London that hasnt been done? There is physically nothing he could have done which he hasnt already done whether he was in London, Egypt or anywhere else. was he to cancel appointments with the Egyptian President in order to come back to London to control something which he has no control over?

The only thing he could have done other than what he has would have been to jump in the ocean and start swimming to rescue people!

When theres a major event do all Prime Ministers and Presidents run home to their office? No, they deal with the situation and thats what Prime Ministers do, deal with problems and situations! Did Bush go to his office from his Texas ranch? No. Did the australian prime minister return to his office from Queensland? No. So what makes our Prime Minister any different? You have yet to come up with a viable argument, its just your dislike for Mr Blair and the abour government.

Youngmcgill, I wouldn't vote Labour in a million years. I respect Greenback's views, but in my case I think I DO know who Labour are now! They are a European -style, touchy-feely, Social Democratic party that believes in high public spending, constant borrowing, hammering the middle classes with "stealth" taxes, and they subscribe to a busybody, interfering, nannying philosophy.

Re Howard, I reluctantly admit that you are probably quite correct here. I too cannot see Howard as performing at a higher level than Blair. Despite my dislike of New Labour , I admit that my party are nothing like the force in opposition that they should be.

Oh dear...how did this debate end up being a political slanging match?

The initial post was about looking after ourselves rather than the tsunami victims.

To get back on the right track, I dont agree that we shouldnt give to help those in need, but I also dont agree with our govt giving our money away to illegal wars and the needy of other countries when we have so many REALLY poor people in our own country. What about clenning up our hospitals for a start?

The tsunami is a very worthy cause, but after years of giving aid to various other countries, whose populations are devastated by war induced starvation, why are they still in the same mess? Basically the govts of these countires dont give a toss about their own and expect to be bailed out by western countries, they take it for granted and by doing this they are taking the pi@@.

Only when there is a real and unavoidable need for aid, such as now, should we give. Its about time some other countries did something for themselves....and please, dont anybody go on about "its our fault cos of colonialism"..a weak and racist argument against british people.

Oh come one, get a grip people, weve all totaly strayed from the point of this discussion and turned it into a love hate debate about Labour, we all have our own opinions and political views, however these views shouldnt be reflected in our opinion of this disaster.

Originally posted by youngmcgill
Sorry but I still disagree, you still havent answered my question, what could he have done from London that hasnt been done? There is physically nothing he could have done which he hasnt already done whether he was in London, Egypt or anywhere else. was he to cancel appointments with the Egyptian President in order to come back to London to control something which he has no control over?

The only thing he could have done other than what he has would have been to jump in the ocean and start swimming to rescue people!

When theres a major event do all Prime Ministers and Presidents run home to their office? No, they deal with the situation and thats what Prime Ministers do, deal with problems and situations! Did Bush go to his office from his Texas ranch? No. Did the australian prime minister return to his office from Queensland? No. So what makes our Prime Minister any different? You have yet to come up with a viable argument, its just your dislike for Mr Blair and the abour government.

It's not about what he could have *actually* done if he was here, in Cairo, or in Timbuktoo. It's about hypocrisy: on the one hand, not being particularly interested in the crisis initially (an accusation which, by the way, is not just aimed at Blair but the cabinet as a whole) and on the other, preaching to the public about his desire to rid the world of famine, etc. If you're in politics, and you haphazardly pick and choose when you're going to play the humanitarian card, you lay yourself open to accusations of populism, and people start questioning your motives.

Originally posted by Greenback
It's not about what he could have *actually* done if he was here, in Cairo, or in Timbuktoo. It's about hypocrisy: on the one hand, not being particularly interested in the crisis initially (an accusation which, by the way, is not just aimed at Blair but the cabinet as a whole) and on the other, preaching to the public about his desire to rid the world of famine, etc. If you're in politics, and you haphazardly pick and choose when you're going to play the humanitarian card, you lay yourself open to accusations of populism, and people start questioning your motives.

Honestly, wake up and smell the coffee! Would you have been happier to see the cabinet sitting in the cabinet office talking about nothing? There is nothing they could have done! It doesnt make any difference! Would you rather have wasted tax payers money flying people in from all over the place to sit in the cabinet office and talk about things they could have done over the phone? Typical Torie, a money waster! your main concern would probably have been what doughnuts were on offer at that particular cabinet meeting!?

Originally posted by Greenback
It's not about what he could have *actually* done if he was here, in Cairo, or in Timbuktoo. It's about hypocrisy: on the one hand, not being particularly interested in the crisis initially (an accusation which, by the way, is not just aimed at Blair but the cabinet as a whole) and on the other, preaching to the public about his desire to rid the world of famine, etc. If you're in politics, and you haphazardly pick and choose when you're going to play the humanitarian card, you lay yourself open to accusations of populism, and people start questioning your motives.

and incidently, Tony Balir didnt make the Tsunami happen so how can be picking and choosing, he would have been choosy if he waited a week or 2 to respond!? Stop being silly and come up with a semi devent argument! Would you rather the cabinet stopped using the telephone and had all of their meetings in person?

Originally posted by youngmcgill
and incidently, Tony Balir didnt make the Tsunami happen so how can be picking and choosing, he would have been choosy if he waited a week or 2 to respond!? Stop being silly and come up with a semi devent argument! Would you rather the cabinet stopped using the telephone and had all of their meetings in person?

You're obviously not reading my posts properly, so there's no point responding further. And if you think I'm a Tory, you're *way* off the mark.

Just a little bit of perspective here,,,
In africa every year over 1 million people die from AIDS.......
More than 1 million die from starvation each year.

Every year money gets poured into their coffers to help with food and medical supplies however, most of the money goes in fact to the purchacing of arms and into the banks of the politicians of those countries.


The above deaths are attributed to natural disasters such as famine and disease.

Only 150 000 people died in the tsunami which put into perspective is a low number considering the other deaths mentioned.

Originally posted by Greenback
You're obviously not reading my posts properly, so there's no point responding further. And if you think I'm a Tory, you're *way* off the mark.

I think its more so a case of you know im right and cant come up with a reasonable defence! anyway, have a good night im finished work now!

Originally posted by Delboy3
Just a little bit of perspective here,,,
In africa every year over 1 million people die from AIDS.......
More than 1 million die from starvation each year.

Every year money gets poured into their coffers to help with food and medical supplies however, most of the money goes in fact to the purchacing of arms and into the banks of the politicians of those countries.


The above deaths are attributed to natural disasters such as famine and disease.

Only 150 000 people died in the tsunami which put into perspective is a low number considering the other deaths mentioned.

and that was Koffi Annan's exact point at the sumit that the money has to be spent correctly in a co-ordinated effort and not just throw money at it as in other areas. and I certainly wouldnt say "only" 150000, its the population of a small city!

Originally posted by youngmcgill
I think its more so a case of you know im right and cant come up with a reasonable defence! anyway, have a good night im finished work now!

No, I think it's more a case of you can't understand a nuanced answer as opposed to one made up of a single point, repeated ad nauseum. I made a case that Blair is being somewhat hypocritical on this issue and you refused to respond to it - instead, you continued to bluster. :(

Originally posted by Greenback
No, I think it's more a case of you can't understand a nuanced answer as opposed to one made up of a single point, repeated ad nauseum. I made a case that Blair is being somewhat hypocritical on this issue and you refused to respond to it - instead, you continued to bluster. :(

Yes whatever Greenback. Your still wrong though. Get over it.

Originally posted by youngmcgill
Yes whatever Greenback. Your still wrong though. Get over it.

I thought you'd gone home ;)

Tony didn't take the crisis seriously at first, that's my point - and when the public money rained in, he did a pretty quick about-turn. That's politics, I suppose, but it still makes me mad :suspect:

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by youngmcgill
Honestly, wake up and smell the coffee! Would you have been happier to see the cabinet sitting in the cabinet office talking about nothing? There is nothing they could have done! It doesnt make any difference! Would you rather have wasted tax payers money flying people in from all over the place to sit in the cabinet office and talk about things they could have done over the phone? Typical Torie, a money waster! your main concern would probably have been what doughnuts were on offer at that particular cabinet meeting!?

My own line management is all based 200 miles away and so I can say from experience that you get a lot more done in face to face meetings than you can over the phone. But to be honest I think that is not really the point, I think what a lot of people were expecting was some kind of visible leadership during the immediate aftermath. This was the world's worst natural disaster in most people's living memory, in fact with over 400 hundred Britons dead, it is probably the worst natural disaster to affect the UK alone. It is normal to expect your Prime Minister to be visibly leading things in times like this rather than sunning himself abroad. If Blair doesn't like that, then I'm afraid that's tough, it's his job.

Anyway, back on topic, if sniper really is morally bankrupt enough to require a selfish reason for this country to donate to the Tsunami victims and victims of poverty in general, he would do well to remember that poverty breeds contempt and hatred which in turn leads to violence and "terrorism". In addition, an increase in wealth around the world ultimatley benefits this country too, in more countries to trade with. Trade is a good thing, it's why we have enough money to help out these countries in the first place.

Yes, I agree that this thread has rather lost its thread! It has turned in to a political debate

What has annoyed me mostly is that the focus on tv has been mainly on Phuket, a highly commercialised tourist resort, where a lot of europeans and many others visit each year and this area where the disaster struck has the ability to get back on its feet hopefully pretty quickly..

The worst devasted part of Indonesia and Sri Lanka, where they will struggle to rebuild their homes and have lost their livelihoods through the devastation of the fishing industry, there has been a lot less coverage and far fewer journalists and reporters out there

These are people who live in poverty anyway and will be hoping for some Western help to aid the recovery..It is not about throwing money at a country, it is about educating the people to look after themsleves and stand on their own 2 feet.In one respect, it has brought the attention of the world to SE Asia and now we may all take a lot more notice of the conditions that these people live in

Originally posted by espadrille
Yes, I agree that this thread has rather lost its thread! It has turned in to a political debate

What has annoyed me mostly is that the focus on tv has been mainly on Phuket, a highly commercialised tourist resort, where a lot of europeans and many others visit each year and this area where the disaster struck has the ability to get back on its feet hopefully pretty quickly..

The worst devasted part of Indonesia and Sri Lanka, where they will struggle to rebuild their homes and have lost their livelihoods through the devastation of the fishing industry, there has been a lot less coverage and far fewer journalists and reporters out there

These are people who live in poverty anyway and will be hoping for some Western help to aid the recovery..It is not about throwing money at a country, it is about educating the people to look after themsleves and stand on their own 2 feet.In one respect, it has brought the attention of the world to SE Asia and now we may all take a lot more notice of the conditions that these people live in
Wise words........ I agree with you entirely......
everything is based on media sensationalism.........
those that get the most media exposure...get the rewards..

The important thing is that we've all donated so much, either directly or via government funds, and at the end of the day it hasn't affected our standard of living at all.

Billions of pounds are being given to this worthy cause, however, my concern is :

Can we trust the people who are collecting the money?

How much of it is being syphoned off to provide luxury for the wrong people?

Of the Billions of pounds promised to the Governments to rebuild their countries, how much will find its way to buying armaments?

Are there any checks made to verify that the money is being used for those in need, or are certain individuals riding the gravy train?

There should be strict guidlines and tight control, to prevent any stealing or misapropriation of this aid.

Your concerns are valid.
Before you get your self worked up, however, please change your header to any of the following and then if you feel satisfied come back to your own subject;

UK Income Tax
Sheffield Council tax
Contributions to the European Community from UK
Investments by your own bank accounts
contributions to Sheffield street collectors

We seem to live in a fairly well balanced place geographically and climate wise here in the uk. However we should never be complacent that we are safe from any form of crisis, even on the scale of the Tsunami earthquake because anything is possible. Therefore, if anything did happen in the UK wouldn't you wish for someone to help the uk out as we have helped others? I think so.

all i can say is people all over the world are trying to help in anyway they can,because this tradgedy has affected people from every walk of life,there will always be advantage takers.
but all i can say halevan is,IF THE CAP FITS WEAR IT, like the last post said everyday some goverment .org, council tax, income tax etc, rips us off .if only 90% of my money reaches the people who needs it i will be happy.

perhaps we should be keeping a bit back to help our own people - ie Carlisle - they do say charity should begin at home.

would it help you if I said, "yes there are", maybe you can find the details for yourself, they aren't hidden.

Originally posted by halevan
Billions of pounds are being given to this worthy cause, however, my concern is :

Can we trust the people who are collecting the money?

How much of it is being syphoned off to provide luxury for the wrong people?

Of the Billions of pounds promised to the Governments to rebuild their countries, how much will find its way to buying armaments?

Are there any checks made to verify that the money is being used for those in need, or are certain individuals riding the gravy train?

There should be strict guidlines and tight control, to prevent any stealing or misapropriation of this aid.

Originally posted by cgksheff
Your concerns are valid.
Before you get your self worked up, however, please change your header to any of the following and then if you feel satisfied come back to your own subject;

UK Income Tax
Sheffield Council tax
Contributions to the European Community from UK
Investments by your own bank accounts
contributions to Sheffield street collectors

Thanks for your reply and I assure you that I am not getting myself worked up, merely stating a fact, however, I must point out that you are not the only one who pays for all that you mention.

I also, have paid my taxes etc. all my life and on a low wage, also keeping a sick wife and two children and working full time, so don' t assume that you are alone in paying your way, I have done that for more years than I care to remember and suffered as well, sick wife, children and work, work, work.

You don't know your are born mate, "GET A LIFE" !!!

Yes, and you onlyhave to look at the poor people in Cumbria..
What is happening to our planet..?
the programme last night on TV that talked about the melting of the ice caps and pollution of our cities etc was a revelation to me..
I didnt realise that it had got so bad so quickly and , as people have explained since, it is not always in the interests of Govt to do anything about it ,but if you have kids and they have kids, it makes me wonder whether there will be a planet left at all for them?

Originally posted by espadrille
Yes, and you onlyhave to look at the poor people in Cumbria..
What is happening to our planet..?

Cumbria only got minute or so on the news, yet Asia still keeps getting the majority. How much more is there left to report out there?

I turned on the news today to get details of exactly where is flooded but just got a few generic aerial shots and people being rescued by boats going up and down streets.

Originally posted by alchresearch
Cumbria only got minute or so on the news, yet Asia still keeps getting the majority. How much more is there left to report out there?

I turned on the news today to get details of exactly where is flooded but just got a few generic aerial shots and people being rescued by boats going up and down streets. I wonder if they will get any help or millions of
pounds to help rebuild there homes. :rant:

Originally posted by Sniper
I wonder if they will get any help or millions of
pounds to help rebuild there homes. :rant:

The government and utility companies will repair any damaged infrastructure, people will claim on their buildings insurance. No one will be left starving or homeless. What's your point?

Originally posted by Sniper
I wonder if they will get any help ...

In fact, they are getting help. The emergancy services in this country are capable of dealing with the situation, and volunteer agencies are helping. I saw the Salvation Army on the news, helping to look after people who were evacuated to a local college.

We don't need help from overseas - but if, God forbid, we did, I'm sure other countries would come to our aid. We're lucky that we live in a rich country, with an advanced health care system, dedicated emergancy workers and the facilities to deal with most kinds of disaster.

Originally posted by Cyclone
What's your point?

I think that the answer is trolling

Threads merged again.

Originally posted by moongarden
how about we make sure everyone has the basics - food, shelter, medical assistance when needed, education and clean water?

I'm sure you all agree that the general public have raised a large (by individuals standards) sum of money.
BUT
How much interest are they paying on the development loans given to them by "first world" countries?

The answer to that is quite simple, they are paying out more in interest on their loans than the money we have raised. Shocking but true. If the governments froze the interest on the loan for 2 years they would have more than enough money of their own to rebuild.

If you want more information it is worth a look here:
http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/home.html

That is exactly what the Australian Government are doing.
Giving half a billion for rebuilding the stricken areas in the short term and half a billion in interest free loans for long term rebulding etc. That is apart from the $15 million raised in a telethon at the weekend. Approximately $30 million which has been donated to the various charities by the general public. Another $150,000 was raised last night at a concert on the Gold Coast. This money to be used to purchase medical supplies and equipment for a medical team which leaves Queensland next week for the tsunami stricken area. There are numerous other fund raisers happening all over the country where ordinary Mums, Dads and their kids are digging deep into their pockets to give. All this from a country of 25 million people, only a percentage of which are wage earners and tax payers. I am proud to be an Australian right now !
There is no feeling as good as that of knowing you have made a difference in someone elses life.

Originally posted by Cyclone
The government and utility companies will repair any damaged infrastructure, people will claim on their buildings insurance. No one will be left starving or homeless. What's your point?
You are assuming that all the people affected by the flood are insured with contents insurance.
The fact of the matter is that not everyone is.

Originally posted by alchresearch
Cumbria only got minute or so on the news, yet Asia still keeps getting the majority. How much more is there left to report out there?

I turned on the news today to get details of exactly where is flooded but just got a few generic aerial shots and people being rescued by boats going up and down streets.
I agree with you totally, I am fed up with all the news revolving around the Tsunami.
I don't bother to watch or listen to it anymore as there is nothing local or it seems that crime and bad news in the UK has stopped.

It is about time that the media stopped milking the story and let people get on with their lives without pushing the disaster down our throats.

It happened......It is being sorted...End of Story!

Originally posted by Delboy3
You are assuming that all the people affected by the flood are insured with contents insurance.
The fact of the matter is that not everyone is.

so you'd like the government to bail them out because they took a gamble on insurance?

Originally posted by Delboy3
You are assuming that all the people affected by the flood are insured with contents insurance.
The fact of the matter is that not everyone is.

Then who's fault is that??

Originally posted by Cyclone
so you'd like the government to bail them out because they took a gamble on insurance?

I think this whoel issue highlights a generic problem. Things happen all round the world everyday with potentially devastating consequences for individuals. Whether its crashing a car with no insurance, flooding your home, being burgled or life insurance, a whole list of situations which could result in bankruptcy and personal ruin. I think insurance shouldnt be optional as the consequences would be devastating and this is demonstrated time and time again when things happen and people have no insurance.

I think its wrong for the government to bail these people out but you have to understand that many people cannot afford the premiums of insurance. Theres many arguments for and against however I think there should be some sort of generic insurance premium that everyone has to pay similar to tax that means everyone is insured against various things. I know thats never going to happen but I think given the gravity of the consequences some sort of action should be taken to ensure everyone has insurance, but everyone has to pay not just those that can afford it, it shouldnt be a luxury!

if people own a house they can afford the insurance.

Even the idea of generic insurance doesn't work. Mainly because we all have different risk profiles. I have no wish to subsidise someone elses flood insurance when I live half way up a very large hill. If my house floods then Hillsborough is under 30 feet of water.

Originally posted by Cyclone
if people own a house they can afford the insurance.

Even the idea of generic insurance doesn't work. Mainly because we all have different risk profiles. I have no wish to subsidise someone elses flood insurance when I live half way up a very large hill. If my house floods then Hillsborough is under 30 feet of water.

Thats a nice attitude to take, im exceptionally healthy, why should I subsidise your health care when ive never once had to attend hospital? Its the same thing as paying National Insurance! Im not saying it would work but there should be some initiative to stop it happening gven the gravity of the consequences.

Being healthy and fairly well off I'm in the same boat of subsidising peoples health care. However i prefer that to the us system where people truly cannot afford health insurance and the state help is atrocious.

The same is not true of private property. When buying something you should factor in all the costs, including insuring it (unless you wish to gamble that it won't be damaged somehow).

Health care and property insurance are on entirely different levels in my opinion.

So, if people live in an area that might flood, and choose not to have building and contents insurance then they should either accept the consequences of their gamble, or if they couldn't afford insurance (which strikes me as very unlikely for a private home owner) then they should move to somewhere cheaper (and maybe less likely to flood).

My car insurance is quite high, should there be a blanket car insurance tax imposed on everyone (whether they have a car or not) in order to make it equitable. Afterall, maybe some people buy a car and then decide they can't afford car insurance. Fortunately we punish those people at the moment as insurance for a car is compulsory.

I am sure that we could have the same attitude regarding our money being used to rebuild area's damaged by the tsunami...

If they didnt have insurance.....tough luck...same as what i have read into what people think about those that have no insurance in Cumbria.

Originally posted by Cyclone
Being healthy and fairly well off I'm in the same boat of subsidising peoples health care. However i prefer that to the us system where people truly cannot afford health insurance and the state help is atrocious.

The same is not true of private property. When buying something you should factor in all the costs, including insuring it (unless you wish to gamble that it won't be damaged somehow).

Health care and property insurance are on entirely different levels in my opinion.

So, if people live in an area that might flood, and choose not to have building and contents insurance then they should either accept the consequences of their gamble, or if they couldn't afford insurance (which strikes me as very unlikely for a private home owner) then they should move to somewhere cheaper (and maybe less likely to flood).

My car insurance is quite high, should there be a blanket car insurance tax imposed on everyone (whether they have a car or not) in order to make it equitable. Afterall, maybe some people buy a car and then decide they can't afford car insurance. Fortunately we punish those people at the moment as insurance for a car is compulsory.

I agree they are on entirely different levels however both have serious consequences as im sure youd agree. To some extent having a car is a luxury as we can get public transport. Having a home is an essential part of life, we all need somewhere to live, everyone has to live somewhere and if we all looked at the geographic "risk" of our properties and moved to the top of hills, there would be nowhere to live. I think there should be some sort of imposed duty or way of enforcing insurance as at the end of the day, someone must pay if the worst happens and individuals cannot afford to do so and therefore should legally be obliged to have insurance.

I suppose you could argue that we should all pay one insurance premium and be insured for anything and everything but thats just stupid and impossible, however I think that for things like property insurance its a serious matter and the consequences are huge and therefore should not be overlooked. Why is it a legal obligation to have your car insured yet not your home?

the legal obligation to insure your car is for the benefit of those you might hit, not yourself. It's 3rd party liability which is the legal requirement, not fully comprehesive.

Houses aren't know for running people over or crashing into other houses, thus it's your own choice to insure it or not.

If someone is truly unable to afford to insure a house they have clearly purchased a house that is too expensive as they should have taken the cost of insurance into account.
If that means that they can't afford any house, then so be it, they should wait for a council house or make alternative arrangements.

The difference with the tsunami is that the areas hit are already (by our standards) well below the poverty line and would all qualify for benefits. Obviously as they aren't British citizens they don't, but we've seen fit to help them out anyway since they are relatively poor and the disaster is beyond the capabilities of their own government to deal with.

Originally posted by Cyclone
the legal obligation to insure your car is for the benefit of those you might hit, not yourself. It's 3rd party liability which is the legal requirement, not fully comprehesive.

Houses aren't know for running people over or crashing into other houses, thus it's your own choice to insure it or not.

If someone is truly unable to afford to insure a house they have clearly purchased a house that is too expensive as they should have taken the cost of insurance into account.
If that means that they can't afford any house, then so be it, they should wait for a council house or make alternative arrangements.

The difference with the tsunami is that the areas hit are already (by our standards) well below the poverty line and would all qualify for benefits. Obviously as they aren't British citizens they don't, but we've seen fit to help them out anyway since they are relatively poor and the disaster is beyond the capabilities of their own government to deal with.

What if theres a strong wind, as there has been, and a roof tile gets blown from your roof and smacks someone on the head, 3rd party liability? Shouldnt that be an obligation? What about a 3rd party being the bank, as technically speaking most of us do not "own" our homes, the bank does until our mortgages are paid so technically we have to cover that third party in the instance that the house gets damaged and we cannot pay for it, we still have to pay our mortgage in the event the house gets ripped apart but couldnt afford to as we would still have to find somewhere to live? So there are many other parties involved as you cant just walk away from the bank of the poor man on the street when a tile goes through him or his car!?

Originally posted by youngmcgill
What if theres a strong wind, as there has been, and a roof tile gets blown from your roof and smacks someone on the head, 3rd party liability? Shouldnt that be an obligation? What about a 3rd party being the bank, as technically speaking most of us do not "own" our homes, the bank does until our mortgages are paid so technically we have to cover that third party in the instance that the house gets damaged and we cannot pay for it, we still have to pay our mortgage in the event the house gets ripped apart but couldnt afford to as we would still have to find somewhere to live? So there are many other parties involved as you cant just walk away from the bank of the poor man on the street when a tile goes through him or his car!?

you own the house, you owe the bank money, the bank does not own the house.
The loan is secured on the house, part of the loan contract may be that the house is always covered by buildings insurance. if not the bank accepts the risk that the house may be destroyed and the loan will effectively be secured on a patch of land with building permission.
If a tile gets wripped of the roof and hits someone on the head it's not your fault, unless they can prove negligance in your maintenance of the roof. If that's the case they may take you to court and turn you into a even poorer person. But that's once again your decision.
The reason the law makes car insurance compulsory is because accidents are common and it's a better solution than having to either hunt down people who've fled the scene or spend lots of time tying up the courts.

Originally posted by Cyclone
you own the house, you owe the bank money, the bank does not own the house.
The loan is secured on the house, part of the loan contract may be that the house is always covered by buildings insurance. if not the bank accepts the risk that the house may be destroyed and the loan will effectively be secured on a patch of land with building permission.
If a tile gets wripped of the roof and hits someone on the head it's not your fault, unless they can prove negligance in your maintenance of the roof. If that's the case they may take you to court and turn you into a even poorer person. But that's once again your decision.
The reason the law makes car insurance compulsory is because accidents are common and it's a better solution than having to either hunt down people who've fled the scene or spend lots of time tying up the courts.

Likewise if someone walks out in front of your car its not your fault but they still insist you have insurance. Accidents are common place with homes, although not as common as that with vehicles. You dont own your home until the mortgage is paid as your bank hold the title deeds until you have paid the mortgage. Anyhow, I think thats being pedantic and realisitcally everyone should have insurance and there should be some kind of initiative to ensure that we do as ultimately someone has to pay for the consequences, and houses arent cheap.

it's not being pedantic, it's being wrong. The bank does not hold my title deeds, I do. I owe the bank the value of the mortgage which is secured on the asset that I own.
If someone walks out in front of my car and it's not my fault then my insurance will not be involved because i've done nothing wrong.
If on the other hand I drive into another car, or mount the pavement and hit people it is my fault, and since those occurences are all too common insurance was made compulsory.
Accidents with home are common place? Do they often run into things, fail to stop in time, hit people using pedestrian crossings? When was the last time you saw a roof blown off through negligence in maintenance that injured someone.
Accidents caused by homes are clearly not common and compared to accidents caused by cars may as well be non existant. The level is low enough that it can be dealt with through the courts.
Not having insurance on your home is stupid, but we can't legislate to fix every problem a stupid person might encounter, nor should we. They're stupid, let them deal with it.

Originally posted by youngmcgill
Likewise if someone walks out in front of your car its not your fault but they still insist you have insurance. Accidents are common place with homes, although not as common as that with vehicles. You dont own your home until the mortgage is paid as your bank hold the title deeds until you have paid the mortgage. Anyhow, I think thats being pedantic and realisitcally everyone should have insurance and there should be some kind of initiative to ensure that we do as ultimately someone has to pay for the consequences, and houses arent cheap.

Originally posted by Sniper
The whole thing makes me sick to the stomach i know it
was bad but it was a natural disaster and its not as if
England has not got enough problems of its own to
deal with our Hospitals and railways are going up
the spout and look at the army no money for any them
but money for people who have nothing to do with England
what gives why cant we just look after ourselves for once
England first and then them.:rant:

sorry mate but after seeing all the little kids with no parents and no homes i donated what i could afford..ive never done this before but this time i felt it was the right thing to do....take the sudan for instance i think donating condoms would be more effective that money coz i don't see how these people can even think of bringing kids into that situation..plain idiotic if you ask me..but the people of thailand sri lanka etc are in this situation through no fault of their own.lets just hope the people of carisle get some help from the goverment.

Looks like another massive earth quake has recently happened in Indonesia (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4388579.stm).

Wonder if it will be as distructive as the last one... lets hope not :(

Fingers crossed (praying never has worked) this won't be a repeat of Boxing Day.

Sky News are now reporting the quake is an 8.5; this is terrilble news.

K x

Trying not to worry.

There have been aftershocks regularly since the Big One on Boxing Day although this is the largest warranting alerts.
Based on the epicentre location, a wave would have hit the Indonesian coast by now (the quake was around 3 or 4 pm our time) and no news has come out yet suggesting a wave has occured.
With the number of aid agencies on the ground, it is reasonable to expect that word would have reached us if a wave had hit. I think!

Fingers crossed till we hear an "all clear".

I really hope this isn't happening again.

Haven't the people of Indonesia and surrounding areas that were involved had enough of these natural disasters! :(

Deaths reported on Nias Island (off Sumatra) as the result of buildings collapsing in the quake.
No tsunamis reported there.

Reuters: http://www.reuters.co.in/locales/c_newsArticle.jsp?type=worldNews&localeKey=en_IN&storyID=8014849

Reuters saying that likely that any wave from this quake was forced South and that would be in the direction of Mauritius.

Small wave observed at Cocos Islands. no damage.

'Small' tsunami reported here (http://www.reuters.co.in/locales/c_newsArticle.jsp?type=worldNews&localeKey=en_IN&storyID=8015009)

K x

50 dead, 300 homes flattened, 15 thousand on the run and a 6.0 aftershock after the initial 8.7 quake

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/03/28/indonesia.quake/index.html

US sources are claiming this is the biggest earthquake for over a hundred years. Here (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L2832534.htm)

This is so very sad, my thoughts and prayers are with everyone affected! :(

K x

From the reports I heard they said the quake will depend on whether or not it was the tectonic plates moving (as in the last quake) or just settlling. If they are settling, then a Tsunami is less likely, but if they have moved again, then that could cause another Tsunami. It's all very worrying though. Those poor people already have nothing - and this time there is little in the way to slow down any wave.

Sorry to hear bout that.

I've just been listening to Mauritius radio and while they do not seem to be in panic, the coastguard there and on Reunion are moving people away from the coast and beach areas.
They are expecting that if anything comes it will be in the next 1 to 4 hours.

Barring any further shocks its seems that Sumatra and the North (Thailand etc.) have been spared any wave.
Thailand has stepped down from alert at 9pm as has Sri Lanka at 9:30

Not to split hairs, Kristian, but its 6th on the list (just smaller than Boxing Day).

Originally posted by cgksheff
Not to split hairs, Kristian, but its 6th on the list (just smaller than Boxing Day).

Must have been having a blonde moment :rolleyes: ;)

Latest reports indicate 1000 dead, although thankfully tsunami warnings have been retracted.

Story here. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/naturaldisasters/story/0,7369,1447361,00.html)

K x

Originally posted by Kristian
Latest reports indicate 1000 dead, although thankfully tsunami warnings have been retracted.

I think that the Tsunami warnings were put up just to appease the world media. If there were no tsunami warnings and anything did happen, it'd be "HAVE WE LEARNED NOTHING!?!?!" whereas if they pu t them out and didn't retract, it'd be "FALSE WARNING CAUSES CHAOS!!!" The world media doesn't know when to shut up.

Looking at the map, the reason the boxing day quake caused the wave was because it was directly on the fault line and so cause a large displacement of the two plates. This one was NOT on the fault line, and so did not cause the actual contact between the plates to shift anything like as drastically.

da bouncer ru really a bouncer or is that just ur nick name?

Originally posted by jessticles
da bouncer ru really a bouncer or is that just ur nick name?

That depends what night you ask him, and how he's feeling! That said, I know DaB personally, and I wouldn't mess with him! :D

K x

Brits Raise £400m For Tsunami Victims

The unprecedented response to the Asian Tsunami disaster has seen the British public raise a record-breaking £400m.The Boxing Day tragedy claimed the lives of some 300,000 people with half-a-million more displaced in Indonesia alone after an earthquake sent massive waves crashing into coastlines around the Indian Ocean.The Disasters Emergency Committee Appeal, an umbrella organisation representing 13 leading UK aid agencies, oversaw the fundraising.

DEC chairman David Glencross told the committee's annual meeting the amount received from the British public was eight times the previous record, raised for Kosovo in 1999.

Their members, and those of their partners, were working within hours of the disaster and now, nearly six months later, they have thousands of projects running in the region.

DEC chief executive Brendan Gormley who last week visited Indonesia, said: "This is a genuine people to people effort.

"The sheer scale of the public response in the UK has been amazing but the ordinary people of the region have also done so much to help themselves.

"I have also been greatly moved by the tenacity and stoicism of the survivors.

"They are the ones leading the effort, we are playing a supporting role."

from yahoo.co.uk



When spurred we do get off our bums and do something:thumbsup:

anything been raised for the people of north yorkshire who got flooded out this week

its called building and contents insurance.

I didnt donate anthing to this fund, cos i couldnt be bothered
________
LovelyWendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

Originally posted by Mainframe
I didnt donate anthing to this fund, cos i couldnt be bothered

thanks for being bothered to post that :rolleyes:

I think the person who recently posted "Why doesn't anyone care any more" or whatever it was, would do well to read this report.

This, and things like Comic Relief, show we do care about people outside our immediate lives.

I was working in a bank that was collecting donations. I felt very humbled by the lengths some of our customers went to to help - in particular a shop where the staff donated all their Christmas tips.

I never donate to anything that is gong out of the country, so Comic Relief is a big nono.

But I do charity work for Arthritis Care and used to do photo shoots for hospital posters to get the word accross
________
Watch free xxx videos (http://www.****tube.com/)

estimates have shown that out of all the money people raised and gave to the tsunami appeal only around 42 million???


bill gates alone gave 400 million..


were's it all going because the people who were hit by the tsunami are still in the same state they was months ago!!!!

I think some of it is tied up by red tape:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4103054.stm

I recieved this E-mail:

27th June 2005

Dear Mr Rob *********

On behalf of the member charities of the Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC), I would like to thank you for your kind donation of £15 paid to the Tsunami Earthquake Appeal on the 30/12/2004

The Tsunami Earthquake on the 26th December 2004 left over five million people without their homes, food or water and at risk of disease. With your support the DEC members responded immediately and met basic needs including the provision of emergency shelter, sanitation, fresh water, cooking utensils, blankets and medical supplies to the people in SE Asia. The appeal fund will build on the emergency relief work and will support the three-year rehabilitation and reconstruction programmes carried out by our member aid agencies.

People across the UK have given generously raising an amazing £400 million. Over £150 million has been allocated for the first one-year phase of disaster relief and rehabilitation. For further information about the projects your donation is helping to make possible, please visit www.dec.org.uk

Once again thank you for your donation and please accept this letter as your official receipt.

Yours sincerely
Brendan Gormley
Chief Executive

PS GIFT AID Thank you for agreeing to gift aid your donation so that the DEC will be able to claim back the UK tax you have paid on your gift.