In my younger days (:help: ), because of the international competitions, I was always informed about the possibility of a drug test at any time being made. Recreational drugs are more 'common' now and surely more students can be exposed to the 'recreational' drugs around. I know of some 'instructors' regularly participating in this 'habit'. Surely all registered instructors should be tested randomly to avoid their students being taught 'wrong from right' being mis-led? I was informed that even taking a paracetamol not on the 'list' could make me give a failed drug test, e.g. night nurse syrup.
What would you do as a student, do if you knew that some one in your academy was 'using'? Answer honestly, and just for another twist, what if it was your instructor?
I fully promote a 'KICK DRUGS OUT OF SPORT'. Do you?

Only if the drugs are unfairly helping the person compete. Nobody should be getting tested for weed for example as this is hardly going to effect their performance for the better.

I know I asked for your opinions but surely all drugs are ....well drugs? Weed is still illegal (for what ever classification) and all instructors should support a 'NO TO ALL DRUGS 'policy?

I know I asked for your opinions but surely all drugs are ....well drugs? Weed is still illegal (for what ever classification) and all instructors should support a 'NO TO ALL DRUGS 'policy?

I'm not an instructor, but i agree with stainboy - i've no problem with something like weed. one of the biggest names in grappling, Eddie Bravo, is in fact well known for is advocacy of weed (just a sidenote - not intended to add any weight to my opinion, because it is just my opinion).

when drugs interfere with performance, then i'd have cause for concern, whether that be through addiction or due to performance enhancement, but otherwise it's not an issue for me.

edit: one of the reasons that it doesn't bother, is because i don't believe illegal drug use being any different to legal drug use. alcohol and tobacco are more dangerous to the individual, and more costly to society than any other drugs - if my instructors took drugs recreationally i'd have no more problem with them than if they drank recreationally.

I never took part in top class fights and so was never tested but even at lower levels teating was allowed and I'm told happened from time to time.
Illegal drugs in general are stupid but in sport they give the user an unfair advantage in the short term that may effect his long term health.
No place for drugs or any other form of cheating in any sport.

I know I asked for your opinions but surely all drugs are ....well drugs? Weed is still illegal (for what ever classification) and all instructors should support a 'NO TO ALL DRUGS 'policy?

I agree completely. No one at AFK partakes in drugs neither Steroids nor smoking weed! Any AFK student caught dealing weed, smoking weed or even injecting "roids" are expelled on the spot!

I agree completely. No one at AFK partakes in drugs neither Steroids nor smoking weed! Any AFK student caught dealing weed, smoking weed or even injecting "roids" are expelled on the spot!

Well chefkicker its for the first time we both agree completely on something here. (well not the first thing, but for a while anyhows) Just goes to prove that drugs are being ignored in all fields and are slowly and wrongly getting more accepted as recreational(!) So martial artists on here and so few replies. Check you students and instructors guys!!!!!!:help:

Well chefkicker its for the first time we both agree completely on something here. (well not the first thing, but for a while anyhows) Just goes to prove that drugs are being ignored in all fields and are slowly and wrongly getting more accepted as recreational(!) So martial artists on here and so few replies. Check you students and instructors guys!!!!!!:help:

perhaps there are so few replies due to the fact that statements like the one above is more closely related to 'morals' (for want of a better word) than it is to martial arts. personally i don't see drug use as 'wrong' if it's recreational and not hurting anyone, and i don't believe that i'm wrong by being accepting. my acceptance is based on both personal and professional experience, and therefore in my opinion, it is well-informed. drug use can be dangerous; it can change people's behaviour and performance, but in both my personal and professioanl life i try to judge each case individually.

If it gives an unfair advantage then it should be banned. However, there is a strong case that even steroids do not help in some disciplines. There was an article on Sherdog in the wake of the Royce Gracie and Sherk/Franca positives that made a good case for steroid use (not 'abuse') not being controlled as excessive strength did not necessarily give undue unfair advantage. The crux of it was that steroids were used to prevent injury and allow a higher training tempo. See here: http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=8382
Now, personally, I don't agree - allowing people to train harder surely gives them an unfair advantage in itself. I don't want to be forced to use roids simply to be competitive.

Well chefkicker its for the first time we both agree completely on something here. (well not the first thing, but for a while anyhows) Just goes to prove that drugs are being ignored in all fields and are slowly and wrongly getting more accepted as recreational(!) So martial artists on here and so few replies. Check you students and instructors guys!!!!!!:help:

Definitely Master J ,
Where is RunDMC by the way ? :hihi:
On a serious note, AFK is probably the only kickboxing club that takes the Anti-Drugs message seriously. I have thrown out heavyweight fighters for being on "roids" in the past(always those blasted heavyweights) and thrown out a couple of talented fighters in the past for their connections with local gangs and drug rackets. One of them was actually an "enforcer" in my local area and had an impressive record of KO's.
ZERO Tolerance for drugs at AFK! No exceptions!
Wish we could say the same of other kickboxing clubs.

allowing people to train harder surely gives them an unfair advantage in itself.

i'm going to play devils advocate here...

don't 'legal' supplements (e.g. creatine) allow people to train harder?

i'm going to play devils advocate here...

don't 'legal' supplements (e.g. creatine) allow people to train harder?

Hi Anvil,
Do you agree with banning people for using illegal drugs or for steroid abuse?
Creatine is ok as it is legal.

[QUOTE=chefkicker;2494611]AFK is probably the only kickboxing club that takes the Anti-Drugs message seriously. I have thrown out heavyweight fighters for being on "roids" in the past(always those blasted heavyweights) and thrown out a couple of talented fighters in the past for their connections with local gangs and drug rackets. ZERO Tolerance for drugs at AFK! No exceptions!
QUOTE]

Very commendable, all clubs should have this approach.

Definitely Master J ,
ZERO Tolerance for drugs at AFK! No exceptions!
Wish we could say the same of other kickboxing clubs.

although i wouldn't advocate drug use of any kind, personally, i would hope other kickboxing clubs would judge each case individually and consider the consequences of removing the positive influences from the lives of what are already potentially troubled individuals.

i can't count the number of times that i've heard pro-boxers claim that boxing kept them out of trouble. if sports clubs work with people to educate them and show them an alternative way, it is, in my opinion a much better idea than throwing them out of a club at the first sign of any wrong-doing.

edit: Chefkicker - i take your point about gang related stuff, but although such behaviour usually encompasses the drug scene, it's much wider reaching and is bad behaviour regardless of the drugs. as an instructor, i'd commend you or anyoen for being responsible about who you teach, but i still contend that recreational drug use is not in itself, bad or wrong.

[QUOTE=chefkicker;2494611]AFK is probably the only kickboxing club that takes the Anti-Drugs message seriously. I have thrown out heavyweight fighters for being on "roids" in the past(always those blasted heavyweights) and thrown out a couple of talented fighters in the past for their connections with local gangs and drug rackets. ZERO Tolerance for drugs at AFK! No exceptions!
QUOTE]

Very commendable, all clubs should have this approach.

Thank you JohnnyB
We do try our best. Ok we have lost a lot of our talentpool because of this BUT we make it clear that disrespectful,illegal and gangsterlike behaviour is totally off limits at AFK!

At AFK we set the standards for others to follow.
This will benefit the sport in the long run.

Hi Anvil,
Do you agree with banning people for using illegal drugs or for steroid abuse?
Creatine is ok as it is legal.

i agree with banning people who break the rules, and if that's steroid use then so be it. my point is that it's not just illegal substances that enhance performance, so where (and indeed why) should we draw the line?

don't 'legal' supplements (e.g. creatine) allow people to train harder?
Indeed, however, Creatine has no proven harmful side-effects and is a naturally occurring product in red meat etc; so it would be impossible to ban it anyway but I would like to see it prohibited if it were proven to be unsafe in the way that anabolic steroids and their derivatives are.
Changing your diet, loading on protein (and I would include creatine supplementation in the dietary section for the above reason) etc is fine. Supplements that modify your endocrine system or otherwise interfere with your body's negative feedback loops are bad.

Indeed, however, Creatine has no proven harmful side-effects and is a naturally occurring product in red meat etc; so it would be impossible to ban it anyway but I would like to see it prohibited if it were proven to be unsafe in the way that anabolic steroids and their derivatives are.
Changing your diet, loading on protein (and I would include creatine supplementation in the dietary section for the above reason) etc is fine. Supplements that modify your endocrine system or otherwise interfere with your body's negative feedback loops are bad.

i agree...but according to some research, too much tuna, or mackerel is bad for you...these foods are performance enhancing in that they provide protein...so something being bad for an individual surely can't be the criteria for banning a substance/food/supplement? in which case, what would the criteria be?

i agree...but according to some research, too much tuna, or mackerel is bad for you...these foods are performance enhancing in that they provide protein...so something being bad for an individual surely can't be the criteria for banning a substance/food/supplement? in which case, what would the criteria be?

Im going to ban Oysters and Mussels next as they contain abnormal amounts of Zinc and Magnesium :hihi:
Ask AJ on here, he eats too much zinc and it results in his abnormal behaviour round town :hihi:

Sorry Anvil back to the topic please sir.

Could you provide some sources please Anvil?

Having too much of anything can be bad for you - in the case of tuna and mackerel I doubt that it is a pure protein overload causing the problem; it might even be heavy metal poisoning. I wasn't suggesting that we should abn everything that can be bad for you - last I checked, contact sports were pretty bad for some people's health too, haha.

I still think that a definitive line between 'dietary' and 'metabolic/endocrine' supplementation would be the best boundary. Things that simply provide a pure form of nutrition for the sake of convenience (e.g. protein shakes) and naturally occurring analogues (creatine) found in such foods should be allowed (especially since their banning would be impossible to enforce). However, drugs that target the endocrine system such as anabolic steroids, which do NOT form part of a normal, healthy diet should be banned if they are shown to give an unfair advantage. The legality and research into the safety of such drugs/supplements should also be taken into consideration.

Im going to ban Oysters and Mussels next as they contain abnormal amounts of Zinc and Magnesium :hihi:
Ask AJ on here, he eats too much zinc and it results in his abnormal behaviour round town :hihi:

Sorry Anvil back to the topic please sir.

But that's my point - if you ban everything that's bad for you, then everything's banned! so what is/what should be the criteria for banning something?

just something that i'm unclear about - i certainly don't have any answers!

But that's my point - if you ban everything that's bad for you, then everything's banned! so what is/what should be the criteria for banning something?

just something that i'm unclear about - i certainly don't have any answers!

Well, I tried to make a distinction in my previous post - what're your thoughts on that? :)

Could you provide some sources please Anvil?

Having too much of anything can be bad for you - in the case of tuna and mackerel I doubt that it is a pure protein overload causing the problem; it might even be heavy metal poisoning. I wasn't suggesting that we should abn everything that can be bad for you - last I checked, contact sports were pretty bad for some people's health too, haha.

I still think that a definitive line between 'dietary' and 'metabolic/endocrine' supplementation would be the best boundary. Things that simply provide a pure form of nutrition for the sake of convenience (e.g. protein shakes) and naturally occurring analogues (creatine) found in such foods should be allowed (especially since their banning would be impossible to enforce). However, drugs that target the endocrine system such as anabolic steroids, which do NOT form part of a normal, healthy diet should be banned if they are shown to give an unfair advantage. The legality and research into the safety of such drugs/supplements should also be taken into consideration.

the soruce that i'm thinking of is Patrick Holford - i'm pretty sure he refers to too much tuna being dangerous in his book 'optimum nutrition', but i'm pretty sure that you're correct in saying it's not the protein content, rather the metal.

i agree pretty much with what you're daying, but i would contend that we really don't know how well the current ban is enforced, as we only know who gets caught and not those who don't...

Well, I tried to make a distinction in my previous post - what're your thoughts on that? :)

you did, but i'd posted before i read your post :)

the distinction you propose seems sensible based on my limited knowledge :thumbsup:

The latest issue of Fighters Only has a good article by Grant Waterman about the lack of testing in MMA.
Also, Dana White has now promised to 'B*tch slap' any of the UFC's fighters who test positive from now on, along with a 1-year ban. http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=8454