ive been very unnerved about my daughter and her friend coming back from the skates on the tram this afternoon, two men around about 40 ish was taking photographs of them from their camera, i thought she said their camera phone but it was a proper camera with a lens they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness they were staring at them,my daughter,s friend started to run when they got off and one of them said did you get that meaning from their behind, they were quite scared they are both 13 years of age , i dont know what to make of it but cant stop thinking about it should this be allowed to happen ? broad day light in town its really scared them whats going on /

Creepy - and very scary for the lasses, too.

I'm not sure about the legality of taking photos of people without permission, but I should tell your daughter that if anything like this happens again, she should immediately complain to the conductor on the tram.

I'd also be inclined to call 101 and report the matter - in case the beggars are doing this regularly to young girls.

the incident might have been captured on the camers on the trams and at the tramstops.
it might be worth contacting the tram depot, at Nunnery, and see if they can help you with footage?

mgblade, doesn't sound right.

Sounds very dodgy to me.

I don't know what can be done about it though...

Hope the girls are alright.

the incident might have been captured on the camers on the trams and at the tramstops.
it might be worth contacting the tram depot, at Nunnery, and see if they can help you with footage?

Sounds right. It may be nothing and the girls got the wrong idea but if there is cctv footage it may clear it up or if there is a perv out there it may help get hold of him for a little police attention.

First of all, in a public place it's legal to take photographs of anyone or anything in the UK. Whether the inside of a tram counts as a public place I'mnot sure - I'd say that it isn't, and as such would be covered by the Supertram Rules and Regulations.

However, there are obviously times and situations in which photography is inappropriate, and this would appear to be one of them. Dozy had it right - complain to the tram conductor. It could be totally innocent - 20 years ago when I was interested in photography I remember taking photos of anything that moved - but today photograhers should have more awareness than to take photos of young children without permission.

Ring the Supertram offices as well and mention it to them; they may be interested as well.

There was a thread some months ago, about men taking pictures of young girls in a shop in town, was it Suggs?

They apparently thought the girls were on their own as the parents were downstairs or something like that?

Wonder if it was the same two men still up to their antics? Quite unsettling, really.

Frustrates the hell outta me this, as I am one of those who takes my camera on most outings to get snaps of my daughter/family etc and because of people like this I get frowned upon and 90% of public places won't allow me to use my camera @ all...(What has society become:huh:).

I would get straight on to the police as the trams are fitted with cctv and there are laws concerning photography of persons without their consent, quite a strict law as far as I'm aware, especially when it concerns minors. If these people do have pictures of your daughter/friend and the police do catch up with them, maybe you could unravel a whole network and take a few perverts out of society...

we get pervs on the beaches taking photos of the ladies, though there's not much done about them (the pervs that is )

You cant take photographs of under 16's without the parents permission. We had this problem at football, when my daughter was playing, we were not allowed to take pics as all the parents were not around to ask.

Is this actually the law now, LindseyW? I know some schools and organisations ask you not to, on pain of something nasty happening to you, like being banned.

I was under the impression that it was still actually a bit of a grey area? After all, what happens when you take snaps of your family and other people appear in the background who may or may not be under 16? :confused:

You cannot photograph children under 16 without the permission of their parents.

Let us know the outcome of this.

There is no law to stop you taking photographs of anyone in a public place. Posters are mistaken in suggesting that there is.

Private landowners have the right to restrict who comes onto their land and what they do.

Police may choose to suggest that what you are doing "may lead to a breach of the peace", "be contrary to the Prevention of Terrorism Act" or whatever and you would be foolish to ignore their suggestion .....

BUT it is NOT illegal to photo men, women, children, babies, dogs or wombats in a public place.

(doesn't mean that those two characters weren't a bit dodgy, though)

There is no law to stop you taking photographs of anyone in a public place. Posters are mistaken in suggesting that there is.

Private landowners have the right to restrict who comes onto their land and what they do.

Police may choose to suggest that what you are doing "may lead to a breach of the peace", "be contrary to the Prevention of Terrorism Act" or whatever and you would be foolish to ignore their suggestion .....

BUT it is NOT illegal to photo men, women, children, babies, dogs or wombats in a public place.

(doesn't mean that those two characters weren't a bit dodgy, though)

If this is the case that you can take photos of anybody in public why is it that press photographers have to ask permission to take pictures of children in public?

Something about this doesn't ring true to me. For a start, how far away from them were these men sitting? How do the girls know that they were taking a picture of them rather than just the interior of the tram, as some tram enthusiasts probably do? What about all the other people on the tram at the same time? And if they started to run away when they got off, how could they hear what the man said?

It's also weird that the original poster seems to think that taking a picture with a camera phone would be in some way less unnerving than with an actual camera with a lens.

And why didn't they just move to a different seat down the other end of the tram, which would seem to be the obvious thing to do?

If this is the case that you can take photos of anybody in public why is it that press photographers have to ask permission to take pictures of children in public?

I think they only need permission to publish the photos.

If this is the case that you can take photos of anybody in public why is it that press photographers have to ask permission to take pictures of children in public?

Because there IS a law regarding the COMMERCIAL use of pictures of children needing consent.
... and that children under 16 cannot give that consent, but their parents can.

Don't forget there is often tram enthusiasts taking photographs of the trams at different locations.

I took loads of shots of Hillsborough last week, does that mean I have to consult all the backs of heads etc. that were in shot?

schools and football clubs can asked you not to take photos for stupid reasons, as they already do. but there is no legal requirement for you to not be able to do so.

Something else to point out too: surely if you did happen to be a pervert who wanted to take pictures of girls, you'd go somewhere like the Peace Gardens, where you're rather less likely to get pilloried on here for doing so, rather than on a (presumably well occupied) tram.

Sorry if I'm being negative here, but as a man who often has a camera with him, I rather resent the implication of the thread title and the original post that all such people are weirdos who should be locked away forthwith.

BUT it is NOT illegal to photo men, women, children, babies, dogs or wombats in a public place.

OK.....I give in.....WHERE in Sheffield can I photograph a wombat???? :lol:

OK.....I give in.....WHERE in Sheffield can I photograph a wombat???? :lol:

Good question and here's the answer.

http://www.cradleinfo.com.au/pages.asp?code=121
Dubbed the "Serengeti of Tasmania", the park boasts a rich array of easily observed animals that come out in the evening to graze on the grasslands. Some of the animals that you may see include the Forester kangaroo, Bennetts wallaby and common wombat. You may even catch a glimpse of a Tasmanian devil.
Book your Accommodation and Tours online with Sheffield Visitor Information Centre
Mail Enquiries: Sheffield Visitor Information Centre 5 Pioneer Cres SHEFFIELD TAS 7306
Tel: (03) 6491 1036 Email: sheffield@tasvisinfo.com.au

Or maybe you mean the other sheffield. :D

can i add speaking to my daughter today they did actually follow them off the tram its only when my daughter and friend started to run , they heard one of the men to the other you should have snapped it , meaning you should have took the photo, that to me is not acceptable thats wrong , i just wanted to point this out because of the threads coming through, this one needs dealing with

can i add speaking to my daughter today they did actually follow them off the tram its only when my daughter and friend started to run , they heard one of the men to the other you should have snapped it , meaning you should have took the photo, that to me is not acceptable thats wrong , i just wanted to point this out because of the threads coming through, this one needs dealing with

It certainly sounds like it does, 101 it I say.

have you phoned the police or the tram for cctv?

I can't understand why anyone would want to do it when porn is so easily obtainable.

Maybe they wanted pics of kids for commercial use, but owing to their age and obviously no parent around, they went for plan B.

Plan A would have been photo with consent of parent/guardian of the minor, and that person signing a model release. Failing the parent/guardian being there, what some people do is plan B - take shots with no recognisable face in the shot (the photo from behind) since then no model release is required. The minor age demanding model release signed by parent/guardian can be as high as 18 depending on what agency they may be with

So its perfectly possible that they are legit photographers but as you werent there they had to take the pics from behind the kids :P

Then again of course they could be pervs with no idea of how to hide when taking pics ...

I took loads of shots of Hillsborough last week, does that mean I have to consult all the backs of heads etc. that were in shot?

depends hoiw you're using/selling the pics and if there are recognisable faces in the shot...

im going to contact the sheffield trams tomorrow it might be nothing but not to be ignored, they wern,t in town centre they were getting off the stop near ice sheffield, thats where they were going the skates, the men got off and followed them when my daughter ran they stayed at the tram stop to get back on another tram my daugher looked back,

So are you saying now that they didn't actually take a picture of them while they were on the tram, but only when they got off?

it could have been pictures for a FIRST flyer they have photographers takin pictures everywhere

Sounds a bit iffy to me i'd deff check with the tram cctv could be nothing or could be pedo's at work that need to be stopped its allways worth checking you just never know !

Because there IS a law regarding the COMMERCIAL use of pictures of children needing consent.
... and that children under 16 cannot give that consent, but their parents can.

Lots of really incorrect advice here!

UK law does not give anyone rights over the commercial use of their image.

The persons taking these photos would have been free to do so in a public place and to publish them, unless their actions caused on more than one occasion distress or alarm and could be proved to be harassment.

European law on right to reasonable privacy would not apply, as the girls would not have a reasonable expectation of privacy where they were.

This took place on private property therefore Supertram or any authorised person could have demanded that they stop and ordered them to leave. They could not however confiscate any equipment or insist photos were deleted.

I would have called the police and gone for harassment.

B

im going to contact the sheffield trams tomorrow it might be nothing but not to be ignored, they wern,t in town centre they were getting off the stop near ice sheffield, thats where they were going the skates, the men got off and followed them when my daughter ran they stayed at the tram stop to get back on another tram my daugher looked back,


If it happened sunday, why are you waiting till tuesday to ring the depot, i dont have kids but if I did and it had happened to my kids I would have been straight on phone to depot, not left it two days.

The number for the helpline at the depot is 0114 272 8282 and is manned from 08:30 until 17:00, their e mail address is enquiries@supertram.com

All the trams have cctv fitted now, which if any complaints like this are made can be downloaded by the control room to see what actuallly occured.

If your daughter was thst worried why didnt she tell the conductor. Also as mentioned by other posters it may have all been innocent and they may just have been tram buffs.

the incident might have been captured on the camers on the trams and at the tramstops.
it might be worth contacting the tram depot, at Nunnery, and see if they can help you with footage?

thats a very good idea! also contact the local police see wot they say !! let us know wot happens

it could have been pictures for a FIRST flyer they have photographers takin pictures everywhere
But they HAVE to ask permission first.

First of all, in a public place it's legal to take photographs of anyone or anything in the UK. Whether the inside of a tram counts as a public place I'mnot sure - I'd say that it isn't, and as such would be covered by the Supertram Rules and Regulations.

However, there are obviously times and situations in which photography is inappropriate, and this would appear to be one of them. Dozy had it right - complain to the tram conductor. It could be totally innocent - 20 years ago when I was interested in photography I remember taking photos of anything that moved - but today photograhers should have more awareness than to take photos of young children without permission.
they dont kel joe stated it hear and its true anyone can take pics in public

First this sounds dodgy and the police need to be informed they will then get the Supertram footage

Second while various people have said that taking photos in public is ok taking photos on the tram isn’t. You need permission of Supertram as it is inside the tram, it is not a public place as such (No doubt that someone will argue but that is the situation from someone who as been photographing trams, buses, trains etc for 35 years)

With regard the press they ask permission so as to avoid any problems especially if they are published, one of the problems in this day and age is that "Little John " lives with his mummy, daddy doesn’t know where they live even which town because he is violent.

A picture of little John appears in the paper, Daddy now knows where to look.



This as been the situation for years I remember a photographer taking a photo of two girls through the railings at Woodseats infant school in the mid 1960s and the paper was sanctioned for publishing it together with the girls names .
The Headmistress Miss Winterbottom – (I think that was her name ) wasn’t very happy - we were all dragged into assembly to be told if it happened again we were to tell a teacher or dinner lady


But back to the incident this sounds iffy especially if as it appears there as been other incidents.

Yet another 'bloke with camera, must be a perv' thread.

There are plenty of photographers that carry cameras around with them, it does NOT make them perverts automatically as seems to be suggested here.

It has been explained that these guys were behaving perfectly legally. *if* they were taking pics of the girls and the girls didn't like it they could ask them to stop, or simply move down the tram.

If the chaps continued taking pics, then get the attention of conductor/police.

Maybe the kids assumed the guys were taking pics of them because the camera was pointed in their direction, not necesarily the case.

As has been pointed out by someone else, what would a perv get from pics of people on tram? There are plenty of more 'interesting' pics available should they want to go find them.

Sorry for a bit of a :rant: but annoys me when everyone assumes the worst all the time. No wonder society is so paranoid!

Don't get me wrong, *if* pics are being taken with less than honourable motives, I'd be first in line with the bat...

can i add speaking to my daughter today they did actually follow them off the tram its only when my daughter and friend started to run , they heard one of the men to the other you should have snapped it

Hmmmm, sounds more and more to me like tram enthusiasts to me; the 'it' he should have snapped perhaps being the tram leaving? Wouldn't he say 'her' or 'them' if he was photographing the girls? And then they get straight back on the next tram just like a couple of tramheads would.

The fact they were using an identifiable camera (not a phone) makes them much more conspicuous and less likely to be pervos IMHO. I'm not saying there is nothing in it and you shouldn't get it checked, but I wouldn't get too freaked out just yet.

Chris

....You need permission of Supertram as it is inside the tram...

I guess it is private property, however unless there are signs to inform you photography is prohibited how are you to know.

Supertram (staff) would have the right to ask you to desist. At which point taking more pics would be a problem.

It is perhaps inadvisable to take pics in such a situation in case of reactions you can see on this thread, putting yourself at risk from the paranoid masses.

I remain unconvinced it is actually illegal in a anyway.

I should bring back Lynching’s. They never made any mistakes (that the person lynched could complain about) Kangaroo courts are rife on the forums once again.

How is it some young and under age people are keen to go and model for someone who they don’t know quite willingly, without any checking of the photographer and no one seems to care or bat an eyelid? (Just look in the jobs available section on this forum) Yet we jump at someone with a camera taking candid photos of people.

Well I am going to Sherwood Forrest in a minute and I shall be taking lots and lots of pictures.

Just make sure there's nobody in them.

Just make sure there's nobody in them.

Oh, there will be plenty of people in them, it is a festival, there will be lots of families with small children sucking ice creams and candyfloss with their bows and arrows watching the jousting and the minstrels singing and performing.

Anyway I'm going tomorrow now, the arrangements have been changed. I have been taking candid pictures from about 1960 and if people think they can interfere with my personal freedom they can think again, the same as if they think I'm a pervert. They might end up in court for making false accusations or something, there must be a law to cover it? :)

You never know these guys could be taking girls to order and depending on the camera pictures could be sent from the camera to a pc where somebody could say she'll do.

Sounds like a bad film script but it does happen in eastern europe.

I wouldn't be best pleased if someone took photo's of me. I have never liked having my photo taken, even as a child.

Photographers should ask before taking shots ... who are they to photograph me, at close quarters without permission. I was out one day, when the conservative candidate for Hallam came and spoke to me, followed by this camcorder ... I don't want to be on TV.

What about my freedom not to be photgraphed?

I wouldn't be best pleased if someone took photo's of me. I have never liked having my photo taken, even as a child.

Photographers should ask before taking shots ... who are they to photograph me, at close quarters without permission. I was out one day, when the conservative candidate for Hallam came and spoke to me, followed by this camcorder ... I don't want to be on TV.

What about my freedom not to be photgraphed?

You can't stop people taking photographs in a public place, not even Royalty can stop it. And lets face it all the amature photographer is doing is taking a general picture of people having a good time. But I would always agree to someones request, either not to photograph them or if it had already been taken then to delete the picture.

have you reported it if not call and let the police know

You can't stop people taking photographs in a public place, not even Royalty can stop it. And lets face it all the amature photographer is doing is taking a general picture of people having a good time. But I would always agree to someones request, either not to photograph them or if it had already been taken then to delete the picture.

You do have to accept general shots of people taking photo's, landscapes, buildings etc and then there is the issue of CCTV.

But, I really do not feel comfortable with people aiming camera's within a few feet of me. I don't think muslim people like having their photo's taken either .. its a cultural/relegious issue. I think!

You do have to accept general shots of people taking photo's, landscapes, buildings etc and then there is the issue of CCTV.

But, I really do not feel comfortable with people aiming camera's within a few feet of me. I don't think muslim people like having their photo's taken either .. its a cultural/relegious issue. I think!

I understand how you feel and I think it is perfectly natural and as I say I am always happy to oblige.

You do have to accept general shots of people taking photo's, landscapes, buildings etc and then there is the issue of CCTV.

But, I really do not feel comfortable with people aiming camera's within a few feet of me. I don't think muslim people like having their photo's taken either .. its a cultural/relegious issue. I think!

Oh dear the Islam channel and mta (muslim tv) on Sky plus the famous Al Jazeera and loads of other muslim channels on satelite tv will have to close.....perhaps they don't know that:roll:

ive been very unnerved about my daughter and her friend coming back from the skates on the tram this afternoon, two men around about 40 ish was taking photographs of them from their camera, i thought she said their camera phone but it was a proper camera with a lens they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness they were staring at them,my daughter,s friend started to run when they got off and one of them said did you get that meaning from their behind, they were quite scared they are both 13 years of age , i dont know what to make of it but cant stop thinking about it should this be allowed to happen ? broad day light in town its really scared them whats going on /

This is sick. Contact the police and the tram company ASAP.

Some years ago, when I was younger, much slimmer and more totty-like (ah those halycon days! dream on), I was followed a few times by wierdos around Granville Rd and Queens Road - one of the downsides of working round here and relying on public transport - all my buses were a good 15 min hike away and if it wasnt morons leering and shouting at me from their lorries and cars, I'd get some creep following me along St Mary's Gate. One time, one guy had a camera and he said he'd like me to model for him. I politely declined and hot -footed it as fast as I could to get away- avoiding the subway, just in case...

It can be a very lonely place around there late in the afternoon and I was really unnerved by this - it might be worth reporting to the police - yes, it might be very innocent but if it was my daughter, I'd want to check and be sure she was safe. If they aint up to no good, they wont object to being checked out, will they?

I trust the girl in question had a mobile phone.

Maybe she should have taken a picture of the photographer himself, and made it obvious she was doing it. If he thought he was on camera and an image of him had been sent/uploaded to someone else, he might think twice about his behaviour as he would be easily identifiable.

I know it's not a solution to the problem, and it may even end up winding the man up, but in some scenarios it may work.

Maybe she should have taken a picture of the photographer himself, and made it obvious she was doing it. If he thought he was on camera and an image of him had been sent/uploaded to someone else, he might think twice about his behaviour as he would be easily identifiable.
Nice idea...until an innocent photographer gets attacked as a result of a pic with a paedo label attached appears online...

im going to contact the sheffield trams tomorrow it might be nothing but not to be ignored, they wern,t in town centre they were getting off the stop near ice sheffield, thats where they were going the skates, the men got off and followed them when my daughter ran they stayed at the tram stop to get back on another tram my daugher looked back,

this whole story doesnt sound right to me...first you said they were on their way back from the skates, yet here you say they were on their way...

and then you say that the men followed them off, when no mention of that was made earlier...

i think you have a case of two excitable little girls bending the truth about what happened, and makig the story fit their imagination.

It just doesn't add up...two blokes in full view, with full cameras, obviously taking snaps, and making loud comments about it?

i'd be a bit wary of believing that lot...

Nice idea...until an innocent photographer gets attacked as a result of a pic with a paedo label attached appears online...

I'm not suggesting do anything with the picture she has taken of the photographer, its more a preventative measure. A sort of 'I've got your picture now, if anything happens to me, it will lead the police straight to you'.

But if he was innocently taking a picture, then taking one of him may make him realise how intrusive it is.

Nice idea...until an innocent photographer gets attacked as a result of a pic with a paedo label attached appears online...



Totally agree with you dafoot.

Nice idea...until an innocent photographer gets attacked as a result of a pic with a paedo label attached appears online...

Could you point me to where I could find pictures of innocent photographers being labelled as paedo's online?

Could you point me to where I could find pictures of innocent photographers being labelled as paedo's online?

No.
But equally, I've not tried finding them.

The mentality of *some* people would be to make these public and *some* people would act on it.

For that to happen based on an incident like described in this thread would be disasterous[sp?!]

I'm not suggesting do anything with the picture she has taken of the photographer, its more a preventative measure.
Apologies, I must have misread something.

But if he was innocently taking a picture, then taking one of him may make him realise how intrusive it is.
I guess if he was up to no good it might disuade him. If innocent of wrong doing I guess he would be aware that someone has the right to take his pic too so wouldn't get too upset about it.

Dont confuse CCTV that is covered by the data protection act in to what it covers what it shows and who as access to it.

I am a little concerned having read the thread that

the incident took place two days ago

Someone on this forum thinks first operate the trams in sheffield

Dont confuse CCTV that is covered by the data protection act in to what it covers what it shows and who as access to it.

I am a little concerned having read the thread that

the incident took place two days ago

Someone on this forum thinks first operate the trams in sheffield

Thats what i passed comment on, but who thinks first run the trams

can i just say my daughter and friend didn,t like what they were doing nobody wants a camera pointing in your face by 2 strange men especially at 13 years and they still followed them and carried on persuing them they were very scared that is wrong in my eyes

Could you point me to where I could find pictures of innocent photographers being labelled as paedo's online?
This thread is coming close don't you think?

... and carried on persuing them they were very scared that is wrong in my eyes
No-one is arguing persuing like that would be wrong.

There may be a question about wether the girls were incidental, wether they were interpreting the mens actions wrongly.

I would agree that if that account of following the girls is accurate, then yes, it is could be a bit sinister.

If the the blokes with the camera were/are innocent of any mal-intent perhaps they should have exercised a little discretion and realised when their behaviour becaome inappropriate.

Just a thought, the thread is titled 'men with cameras'.

Do people think the girls involved would have been less intimidated/scared had it been a couple of ladies behind the lens?

As a parent, would folks be less concerned?

My god. Yet another case of someone with a camera being judged as if they were criminal scum. I love how everyone is so quick to jump to the conclusion that the people taking these photos are dangerous peadophiles, when statistically that group of people probably makes up, what, 1% of the population or less? Whereas the group of "people with cameras who aren't peados" probably makes up something more like 80% of the population.

It's disgraceful. Not that these people were taking photographs, but that everyone here is so quick to judge.

can i just say my daughter and friend didn,t like what they were doing nobody wants a camera pointing in your face by 2 strange men especially at 13 years and they still followed them and carried on persuing them they were very scared that is wrong in my eyes

Yes, I agree! Girls / women are usually pretty intuative. If these men were making them feel uncomfortable, then these men were doing ''wrong''.

As mature men, they should have more awareness of how their actions were making the girls feel threatened. I would report this to the police and supertram managers .. maybe the staff can be asked to look out for them in future.

OK then, so what if the two men had been Japanese, who are well known for taking their cameras everywhere and taking pictures of absolutely everything? Would they have felt threatened then? My guess is probably not.

*Deep breaths*

I think the girls had every right to feel the way that they do. Obviously, if it alarmed them, then they should avoid such situation in the future, and be more weary. If they had a camera phone. Take a pic of these people in case anyway.

HOWEVER... other than what has been said or written. I don't know about others, but just going by gut instincts won't convince anybody. They shouldn't be condemned so easily either. Cos they have not done anything too untowards. I don't understand that other photographers are also supporting these strangers whom they have not met. Yet, maybe you guys did not mean to do that?

Even when female friends phone me and talk to them for comfort if they are travelling back home alone, we'd talk about doing odd things like walk away and then look back and see who these people are. Or whether they are checking you out or following you. Everybody shouldn't have to live in fear, but the realistic side of me also thinks that there is nothing wrong with being more street smart anyway.

On the note about photography and rights of individuals and freedom of rights. I do think it is a hazy area, and if photographers want to do people or portrait shots, they should actually do so in a manner which allow their subjects to know of their presence, or at least give an acknowledgement, or even to show them the evidence. Even my friends don't like bad shots of them whenever we go on walks and we practise our photography skills. Even if I upload them online, I will password it for privacy.

I think handling this kind of thing is part and parcel of being a portrait photographer anyway. You have to build a rapport with your subject, and you have to at least have that professionalism about it.

On the note about why photographers don't ask first before taking the shots, it is because you want to capture something natural to the subject without them posing directly for you. Yet, if the photographer is worth his salt, he or she should show you the end result.

Reading the note about paparazzi photographers, it reminded me that even these photographers do shout out the name of the subject as they turn and pose. Maybe this kind of mutual acknowledgement is necessary for portrait photography anyway?

Anyway, do what my friend and myself do. Go out in a photography meet, and target subjects. i.e. food markets or markets. Cos at the end of the day, you're only after the technical skills. There are different ways to pick this kind of skills up. There's no point in unnerving people unnecessarily.

I don't know who these guys were, but they are giving others a bad name by bringing out the camera at an inappropiate time.

If I want to take photographs I shall jolly well take them and I don't need a load of neurotic women telling me what I can and can't do. Thank you very much.

Quote Bago "On the note about photography and rights of individuals and freedom of rights. I do think it is a hazy area, and if photographers want to do people or portrait shots, they should actually do so in a manner which allow their subjects to know of their presence, or at least give an acknowledgement,"
Wrong. If we take photographs we are allowed to photograph people, places whatever we want otherwise candid photography wouldn't exist. There is no law which prevents taking of photographs in public places as I know of. Just think, you are taking a photograph of the Town hall would you expect the photographer to ask the permission of everyone walking past? How about crowd photographs what then ask them all for permission? Having been amateur photographer for more than forty years it’s only recently that people are getting paranoid about having there photo taken. Remember most child abusers are family members not the guy taking photographs out in the street. I would say Paedophiles tend to hide in a family not wander about with a camera. Now unfortunately these new camera phones have opened a new avenue for strange goings on but they are not photographers.

If I want to take photographs I shall jolly well take them and I don't need a load of neurotic women telling me what I can and can't do. Thank you very much.

There really is no beginning to your respect for women is there?

You think intruding on, unnerving, even scaring women or children is your divine (literally) right?

Anyone with a gram of humanity accepts that there is a line between taking general shots that happen to have people in them, and targeted shots of individuals whose feelings about being singled out should be respected. That line, whether it's from the point of view of the photographer or the person in the viewfinder, is a subtle but important one which requires tact and sensitivity even if it's technically legal.

It's exactly comments like yours that make people wary of anyone with a camera, as others have complained about. Shame on you.

If someone is taking a photo of a bus / trram /train do you expect them to get permision off everyone on the bus etc .

There really is no beginning to your respect for women is there?

You think intruding on, unnerving, even scaring women or children is your divine (literally) right?

Anyone with a gram of humanity accepts that there is a line between taking general shots that happen to have people in them, and targeted shots of individuals whose feelings about being singled out should be respected. That line, whether it's from the point of view of the photographer or the person in the viewfinder, is a subtle but important one which requires tact and sensitivity even if it's technically legal.

It's exactly comments like yours that make people wary of anyone with a camera, as others have complained about. Shame on you.

Explain this then. They are fully clothed and they are walking about the streets in full view of everyone. What is their problem if it isn't in their minds?

If I want to take photographs I shall jolly well take them and I don't need a load of neurotic women telling me what I can and can't do. Thank you very much.

Well said :)

One day someone will be starting a thread called "Watch out women with handbags" :P

Explain this then. They are fully clothed and they are walking about the streets in full view of everyone. What is their problem if it isn't in their minds?

It's invasion of privacy and invasion of space.

It's not illegal to stand 2 inches from someones face and stare at them. But if someone did it to you then you would feel uncomfortable, you wouldn't like it, and you would either walk away, ask them to stop or threaten them.

Others feel the same about photography.

It's common decency to respect others and their space and their comfort zones.

It's invasion of privacy and invasion of space.

It's not illegal to stand 2 inches from someones face and stare at them. But if someone did it to you then you would feel uncomfortable, you wouldn't like it, and you would either walk away, ask them to stop or threaten them.

Others feel the same about photography.

It's common decency to respect others and their space and their comfort zones.

That is fine and understandable, but you haven't explained why women "go off on one."

Space? Were the cameras pushed really close to them?

Maybe we're regressing towards the typical representation of amerindian attitudes towards cameras. They steal your soul... oooh, scary.

ive been very unnerved about my daughter and her friend coming back from the skates on the tram this afternoon, two men around about 40 ish was taking photographs of them from their camera, i thought she said their camera phone but it was a proper camera with a lens they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness they were staring at them,my daughter,s friend started to run when they got off and one of them said did you get that meaning from their behind, they were quite scared they are both 13 years of age , i dont know what to make of it but cant stop thinking about it should this be allowed to happen ? broad day light in town its really scared them whats going on /

Going right back to this Perhaps they were transport police and your daughter and her friend are not being totally honest with you. It's just a thought and without proof, which a photograph would be, is just hearsay and your daughters and her friend's word against the 2 men with camera.

When I was taking some photos of the Meadowhall transport exchange last year I had to get permission from the manager and put up signs saying that I was taking photographs with my contact details on it, so if anyone got the hump they could say so. I didn't get any complaints other than a security guard asking what I was doing which was normal.

You can indeed photograph anyone in a public place although it is easy to spot the ones that are trying to achieve something other than learing at young girls. That bits not right. I always add a blur to full faces and usually use profiles, so its hard for any one person to say in the end thats me!

:O that happened to us the other day .we are all 15, 16 and 17. sat on the back of the tram with my 5 friends on the way to cineworld and these 2 men about 40ish started having a go at us because we were talking a littloe bit loud coz thats just the people we are them one started taking pictures. i thought it was a camera phone but it was a lense hidden behind this weird thing..i was really really scared and it didn;t help my friend who already has like an anxiety disorder and stuff coz she panics over this stuff. but i didn't know what to do coz i'm really really scared of things like that,
has your daughter done anything? sorry haven't read all the thread yet coz my laptops opening it like tres slowly..and if it ever comes to anything, my group of friends know what they look like

it could have been pictures for a FIRST flyer they have photographers takin pictures everywhere

but when someone was taking pictures for flyers the other month, the man who was doing it came up to us and asked us that if our heads were accidently seen in the picture would we mind it and they showed us ID etc...

the thing about them being tram inthusiasts....they were not the people who would be like that, and also they were not, trying not to be stereotypical here, the kind of people you would see being "tram" inthusiasts...they were quite chavvy

yeah, i hope your daughter& friend are ok...its made us all a bit funny about things now

When I was taking some photos of the Meadowhall transport exchange last year I had to get permission from the manager and put up signs saying that I was taking photographs with my contact details on it, so if anyone got the hump they could say so. I didn't get any complaints other than a security guard asking what I was doing which was normal.

You can indeed photograph anyone in a public place although it is easy to spot the ones that are trying to achieve something other than learing at young girls. That bits not right. I always add a blur to full faces and usually use profiles, so its hard for any one person to say in the end thats me!

So are you telling me I have to block all these faces out because there are a load of women and girls in the pictures and the camera is pointing straight at them?

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/grahamkirkby/100_0883.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/grahamkirkby/6a2847dc.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/grahamkirkby/100_0838-1.jpg

but i didn't know what to do coz i'm really really scared of things like that,


You have a phobia of cameras?

:O that happened to us the other day .we are all 15, 16 and 17. sat on the back of the tram with my 5 friends on the way to cineworld and these 2 men about 40ish started having a go at us because we were talking a littloe bit loud coz thats just the people we are them one started taking pictures. i thought it was a camera phone but it was a lense hidden behind this weird thing..i was really really scared and it didn;t help my friend who already has like an anxiety disorder and stuff coz she panics over this stuff. but i didn't know what to do coz i'm really really scared of things like that,
has your daughter done anything? sorry haven't read all the thread yet coz my laptops opening it like tres slowly..and if it ever comes to anything, my group of friends know what they look like

Well, I'd again suggest complaining about the behaviour of thsoe two men. Just ask teh Tram Conductor to have a word - that's what they're there for, after all.

And whilst we're on the topic - you're not 'the sort of people who are loud' - you're people being loud in a public place - that'sa choice you have.

So if you expect people to respect your privacy, you should also consider respecting other people'sprivacy by being quiet.

So are you telling me I have to block all these faces out because there are a load of women and girls in the pictures and the camera is pointing straight at them?

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/grahamkirkby/100_0883.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/grahamkirkby/6a2847dc.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/grahamkirkby/100_0838-1.jpg

No, because you're just using the shots for personal use. If you wanted to sell the shots commercially, many buyers would expect a release for every identifiable person in the photo, otherwise they couldn't use it for, say, advertising.

So are you telling me I have to block all these faces out because there are a load of women and girls in the pictures and the camera is pointing straight at them?

That's clearly a bit different.

People assume you are taking a pic of the demonstrations going off at an event/tourist attraction.

The 'incident' on the tram involves the girls being upset because they felt (correctly or not) the camera was specifically targetting them, not including them by accident.

As an aside, I wonder if most of the arguments on here are due to misunderstandings?

could MGBLADE please let us know if you have phoned the police or the tram people, cos you have started this thread and not really said anything.

As an aside, I wonder if most of the arguments on here are due to misunderstandings?

Absolutely, without a doubt :suspect:

Space? Were the cameras pushed really close to them?

Maybe we're regressing towards the typical representation of amerindian attitudes towards cameras. They steal your soul... oooh, scary.

Maybe I have to simplify/clarify it for you.

I have used the example of someone standing inches from your face staring at you. Very disturbing.

Equally upsetting to many/most people, especially females, would be someone stood at any distance staring/pointing at them.

Would you not agree?

Intrusion does not necessarily relate to the physical proximity.

Absolutely, without a doubt :suspect:

totally agree with you there:hihi:

Maybe I have to simplify/clarify it for you.

I have used the example of someone standing inches from your face staring at you. Very disturbing.

Equally upsetting to many/most people, especially females, would be someone stood at any distance staring/pointing at them.

Would you not agree?

Intrusion does not necessarily relate to the physical proximity.

I can see where you are coming from, but if I am taking a picture of beautiful bridge in Derbyshire and a young lady is standing on it, then she flatters herself if she thinks I am taking a picture of her. All I can say is that she has a very big ego if she thinks she is more beautiful than the bridge and surrounding countryside. She is obviously suitably dressed and if she is skimpily dressed then obviously she doesn't have a problem in flaunting herself. Goodness knows what she thinks I'm going to do with the picture and all I can think of is that some immature neurotic young women have over active imaginations. I don't know what right she has to dictate to me or go running to the police and if she doesn't like it, all she has to do is step to one side. It is a free country, she is there of her own free will and I am pursuing one of my hobbies which I am allowed to do in a free country. Some of these people need to grow up.

And you know having someone in the picture often enhances it. See what I mean here. (Bottom picture)

http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/KIRK6479/mycustompage0006.htm

When I was taking some photos of the Meadowhall transport exchange last year I had to get permission from the manager and put up signs saying that I was taking photographs with my contact details on it, so if anyone got the hump they could say so. I didn't get any complaints other than a security guard asking what I was doing which was normal.

You can indeed photograph anyone in a public place although it is easy to spot the ones that are trying to achieve something other than learing at young girls. That bits not right. I always add a blur to full faces and usually use profiles, so its hard for any one person to say in the end thats me!

This in my opinion is the correct way of doing things.

I can see where you are coming from, but if I am taking a picture of beautiful bridge in Derbyshire, then she flatters herself if she thinks I am taking a picture of her. All I can say is that she has a very big ego if she thinks she is more beautiful than the bridge and surrounding countryside,. She is obviously suitably dressed and if she is skimpily dressed then obviously she doesn't have a problem in flaunting herself, goodness knows what she thinks I'm going to do with the picture, and I suggest it is all in the mind of some immature neurotic young woman. I don't know what right she has to dictate to me or go running to the police and if she wants all she has to do is step to one side. It is a free country, she is there of her own free will and I am pursuing one of my hobbies which I am allowed to do in a free country. Some of these people need to grow up.

And you know having someone in the picture often enhances it. See what I mean here. (Bottom picture)

http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/KIRK6479/mycustompage0006.htm

Very arrogant, aren't you? Read what the girls mother has written.

''they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness they were staring at them,my daughter,s friend started to run when they got off and one of them said did you get that meaning from their behind''

1/ they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness

2/ they were being stared at

3/ one of them said did you get that

Who are you to suggest these girls are immature and neurotic .. why should anyone be made to feel like this?

Also, you say about a certain scenario a ''skimpily dressed'' women who ''obviously doesn't have a problem in flaunting herself''. So what , does this give a photographer the right to chase after her taking a photo .. ilke the two very young girls on the tram.

I find your attitude breathtaking.

Very arrogant, aren't you? Read what the girls mother has written.

''they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness they were staring at them,my daughter,s friend started to run when they got off and one of them said did you get that meaning from their behind''



Let me put something else to you, playing Devil's Advocate for a while, from the perspective of one of those chaps, here's a possible scenerio -

"I was sat on the tram minding my own business with my new camera, trying out different settings just shooting the interior of the tram and whoever happened to be in the way. All of a sudden a group of girls stood up, and ran like the wind off the tram. Feeling slightly bemused, I said to my mate "Do you get that?" (meaning, why did they run off like that?). He shrugged."

Very arrogant, aren't you? Read what the girls mother has written.

''they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness they were staring at them,my daughter,s friend started to run when they got off and one of them said did you get that meaning from their behind''

1/ they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness

2/ they were being stared at

3/ one of them said did you get that

Who are you to suggest these girls are immature and neurotic .. why should anyone be made to feel like this?

Also, you say about a certain scenario a ''skimpily dressed'' women who ''obviously doesn't have a problem in flaunting herself''. So what , does this give a photographer the right to chase after her taking a photo .. ilke the two very young girls on the tram.

I find your attitude breathtaking.

...Glennis does appear to have a point Grahame.

Let me put something else to you, playing Devil's Advocate for a while, from the perspective of one of those chaps, here's a possible scenerio -

"I was sat on the tram minding my own business with my new camera, trying out different settings just shooting the interior of the tram and whoever happened to be in the way. All of a sudden a group of girls stood up, and ran like the wind off the tram. Feeling slightly bemused, I said to my mate "Do you get that?" (meaning, why did they run off like that?). He shrugged."

Hmmm ... point taken, up to a 'point'!

But, that does not explain why the girls were chased, does it?
I am sure Graham is a genuine photgrapher .. his photos are lovely, but this particular situation sounds intrusive and dodgy.

Very arrogant, aren't you? Read what the girls mother has written.

''they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness they were staring at them,my daughter,s friend started to run when they got off and one of them said did you get that meaning from their behind''

1/ they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness

2/ they were being stared at

3/ one of them said did you get that

Who are you to suggest these girls are immature and neurotic .. why should anyone be made to feel like this?

Also, you say about a certain scenario a ''skimpily dressed'' women who ''obviously doesn't have a problem in flaunting herself''. So what , does this give a photographer the right to chase after her taking a photo .. ilke the two very young girls on the tram.

I find your attitude breathtaking.


Funny really as yours is also quite one sided

Try to think this way

1/ you have only the OP/Daughters word for it that they were so it's 3rd have information

2/ Same answer again, only i stare if someone is doing something they shouldn't perhaps you ignore vandals/muggings/smoking on the tram and things like that as you dont have to pay fo any damage

3/ If they had been doing something that they shouldn't have and i had a camera i would take a photo for evidence, and i am sure some one would say "did you get it" or something similar

Now before you jump on me i am only doing what you are doing to the photographer which is jumping to conclusions. What sort of a court would it be if only one side of the story was allowed to be said perhaps defence should be banned and everyone accused of something found guilty? It's getting silly isn't it?

Hmmm ... point taken, up to a 'point'!

But, that does not explain why the girls were chased, does it?
I am sure Graham is a genuine photgrapher .. his photos are lovely, but this particular situation sounds intrusive and dodgy.


The OP did not mention the girls being chased. If it's mentioned elsewhere in the thread then I have missed it. In the first post it just says "the girls started to run when they got off".

You have a phobia of cameras?

Oh..Yeah...of course.......:confused:

sorry if it wasn't "clear" enough
if you were beng taken photo of by 2 pervy men sat on the back of the tram and you were the only other people on that end of the tram, they had a go at you, then started taking pictures...
i'm only 15, i get freaked out easily by things like that, and it doesn't help from past experience either
sorry for the "confusion" ...:rant::rant::rant:

The OP did not mention the girls being chased. If it's mentioned elsewhere in the thread then I have missed it. In the first post it just says "the girls started to run when they got off".

I thought I read the girls were chased, maybe I have it wrong. if so, sorry.

Funny really as yours is also quite one sided

Try to think this way

1/ you have only the OP/Daughters word for it that they were so it's 3rd have information

2/ Same answer again, only i stare if someone is doing something they shouldn't perhaps you ignore vandals/muggings/smoking on the tram and things like that as you dont have to pay fo any damage

3/ If they had been doing something that they shouldn't have and i had a camera i would take a photo for evidence, and i am sure some one would say "did you get it" or something similar

Now before you jump on me i am only doing what you are doing to the photographer which is jumping to conclusions. What sort of a court would it be if only one side of the story was allowed to be said perhaps defence should be banned and everyone accused of something found guilty? It's getting silly isn't it?

Yes, I am taking the girls word as the gospel truth and seeing things from a female perspective. These girls are very young, so should men be taking photo's of them in close proximity. I would say no.

Also, maybe men should think more about how there behaviour. If it was innocent on their part, it still made the girls feel uncomfortable.
Would they have done this to two mature females?

I don't know what the real truth is, but I wouldn't like to be in this situation myself.

if you were beng taken photo of by 2 pervy men sat on the back of the tram ...
No phobia of cameras, but happy to jump to conclusions about motives of the blokes with cameras?

Yes, I am taking the girls word as the gospel truth and seeing things from a female perspective. These girls are very young, so should men be taking photo's of them in close proximity. I would say no.

Also, maybe men should think more about how there behaviour. If it was innocent on their part, it still made the girls feel uncomfortable.
Would they have done this to two mature females?

I don't know what the real truth is, but I wouldn't like to be in this situation myself.

So you disregard the fact that the girls might have been up to something and the men might have been getting some evidence? Fair enough it's a one sided view as the men are not here to defend themselves.

I thought I read the girls were chased, maybe I have it wrong. if so, sorry.

The chasing is one of those things that has changed in the last
post, three days after the op. As has the direction they were going in has.

Here are all the posts by Mgblade about this
Quote Mgblade 29/07/2007
“ive been very unnerved about my daughter and her friend coming back from the skates on the tram this afternoon, two men around about 40 ish was taking photographs of them from their camera, i thought she said their camera phone but it was a proper camera with a lens they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness they were staring at them,my daughter,s friend started to run when they got off and one of them said did you get that meaning from their behind, they were quite scared they are both 13 years of age , i dont know what to make of it but cant stop thinking about it should this be allowed to happen ? broad day light in town its really scared them whats going on /”
They were coming back from the Skates ok

Quote Mgblade 30/07/2007
“can I add speaking to my daughter today they did actually follow them off the tram its only when my daughter and friend started to run , they heard one of the men to the other you should have snapped it , meaning you should have took the photo, that to me is not acceptable thats wrong , i just wanted to point this out because of the threads coming through, this one needs dealing with”
Now they followed them off the tram

Quote Mgblade 30/07/2007
“im going to contact the sheffield trams tomorrow it might be nothing but not to be ignored, they wern,t in town centre they were getting off the stop near ice sheffield, thats where they were going the skates, the men got off and followed them when my daughter ran they stayed at the tram stop to get back on another tram my daugher looked back,”
Now they are not coming back they are going to the Skates and the men waited at the tram stop to get back on a tram, the story keeps changing

Quote Mgblade 31/07/2007
can i just say my daughter and friend didn,t like what they were doing nobody wants a camera pointing in your face by 2 strange men especially at 13 years and they still followed them and carried on persuing them they were very scared that is wrong in my eyes

Now the men followed them and carried on persuing them and they did not get back on the tram, oops the story changed again, were the men brandishing an axe and drooling?
I would sit your daughter down and get the proper story not one that changes for dramaticss

hi just reading the latest posts, i feel i need to get my point across and just say when my daughter first told me i didn,t really take much notice then she mentioned it again thats when i put on the post i asked her to run thriugh it again and obviosly she added more, she,s only 13 and didn,t fully explain to me the first time, me personally knows the full story and have contacted the tram department still waiting for them to get back to me, i understand peoples opinions of this thread but i thought putting it on somebody might have experienced similar sort of thing, i know my daughter is telling me the truth, and i have to go with my gut instinct and take it further .

So you disregard the fact that the girls might have been up to something and the men might have been getting some evidence? Fair enough it's a one sided view as the men are not here to defend themselves.

If the men were getting evidence, then if and when Mom informed the police ... wouldn't this become apparant.

Have the police been informed ? If the men are so innocent, surely they would have spoken to the conductor / police with the photographic evidence

hi just reading the latest posts, i feel i need to get my point across and just say when my daughter first told me i didn,t really take much notice then she mentioned it again thats when i put on the post i asked her to run thriugh it again and obviosly she added more, she,s only 13 and didn,t fully explain to me the first time, me personally knows the full story and have contacted the tram department still waiting for them to get back to me, i understand peoples opinions of this thread but i thought putting it on somebody might have experienced similar sort of thing, i know my daughter is telling me the truth, and i have to go with my gut instinct and take it further .


...maybe you should have got the story straight before starting a thread topic with such a sensational subject?

hi just reading the latest posts, i feel i need to get my point across and just say when my daughter first told me i didn,t really take much notice then she mentioned it again thats when i put on the post i asked her to run thriugh it again and obviosly she added more, she,s only 13 and didn,t fully explain to me the first time, me personally knows the full story and have contacted the tram department still waiting for them to get back to me, i understand peoples opinions of this thread but i thought putting it on somebody might have experienced similar sort of thing, i know my daughter is telling me the truth, and i have to go with my gut instinct and take it further .

So which bit is the truth did the men chase after the girls or get back on the tram? Were they going to Skates or coming home? If they were going did they report it at Skates or did they think it wasn't important enough? and why did you wait three days before reporting it?

i would rather leave it now thankyou hopefully will get to the bottom of it.

What a strange thread. So in summary, if you are male and carry a camera in public you are a pervert? Maybe less of one if it is a camera that is also a phone?

i would rather leave it now thankyou hopefully will get to the bottom of it.

Well good luck anyway, as mother of two girls I can appreciate how you feel.

What a strange thread. So in summary, if you are male and carry a camera in public you are a pervert? Maybe less of one if it is a camera that is also a phone?

i don't always carry a camera but i can always be a pervert.

Well good luck anyway, as mother of two girls I can appreciate how you feel.
Same here as the Father of two boys and Grandfather of two girls and three boys plus several years myself in Child care and a wife who is a social worker I know it's tough.

Just to add I am also an amateur photographer and have been for over forty years so see both sides of this.

I've been reading this thread all morning, with a keen interest as I often wander around with my camera as I'm into photography (landscape, architecture etc). I may be seeing this one sided, but I can't imagine anyone trying to take "pervy" shots would do it so openly. It just doesn't seem to add up.

I really do think they were probably just taking general shots, and the girls became uncomfortable with the situation not fully understanding what was happening. I feel that it's a shame that often innocent activities can be seen as something so sinister (probably due to the "trust no one" society we seem to live in these days).

Maybe the comment of "did you get that" was actually in response to something one of the men heard the girls say as they got off the tram???

Just my two penneth - hope the girls are OK, and not put off by this experience & I'd be interested to know what the outcome is.

cheers

I've been reading this thread all morning, with a keen interest as I often wander around with my camera as I'm into photography (landscape, architecture etc). I may be seeing this one sided, but I can't imagine anyone trying to take "pervy" shots would do it so openly. It just doesn't seem to add up.

I really do think they were probably just taking general shots, and the girls became uncomfortable with the situation not fully understanding what was happening. I feel that it's a shame that often innocent activities can be seen as something so sinister (probably due to the "trust no one" society we seem to live in these days).

Maybe the comment of "did you get that" was actually in response to something one of the men heard the girls say as they got off the tram???

Just my two penneth - hope the girls are OK, and not put off by this experience & I'd be interested to know what the outcome is.

cheers

I agree with your conclusion, it seems unlikely that anyone with a sick agenda would be doing so in this way, there are probably more obvious places to go. This is probably more a reflection on what the girl's perceived, based on the increasing paranoia we instill in all our children. Years ago, as yound adults we might not have jumped to the conclusion that these men were perverts or doing anything wrong, simply blokes out taking photographs. I hope this is the case and the girl's haven't come to any long lasting harm.

I've been reading this thread all morning, with a keen interest as I often wander around with my camera as I'm into photography (landscape, architecture etc). I may be seeing this one sided, but I can't imagine anyone trying to take "pervy" shots would do it so openly. It just doesn't seem to add up.

I really do think they were probably just taking general shots, and the girls became uncomfortable with the situation not fully understanding what was happening. I feel that it's a shame that often innocent activities can be seen as something so sinister (probably due to the "trust no one" society we seem to live in these days).

Yet these same teenagers (not the OPs ones I must stress) think nothing of setting up a Myspace or other social networking page and post loads of personal details along with scantily clad webcam photos of themselves.

Yet these same teenagers (not the OPs ones I must stress) think nothing of setting up a Myspace or other social networking page and post loads of personal details along with scantily clad webcam photos of themselves.

..to be fair, that's entirely THEIR choice and doesn't justify adults behaving improperly towards them.

..to be fair, that's entirely THEIR choice and doesn't justify adults behaving improperly towards them.

Assuming these adults did so. As I said in my first post on this thread there may well be a non-pervert explanation for this.
As for you tube postings I don't think the girls that do it are doing themselves any favours but, as you say, it's up to them.
Many a time I have a small camera with me for a variety of reasons but none cover taking shots of girls in the street. It seems that some posts and indeed the thread title assume a man with a camera is a perv.
Both silly and dangerous to assume such a thing. Imagine some poor bloke being dragged off to the police station accused by a hysterical woman in the street of being a perv. Far fetched ?maybe or maybe not looking at some of the posts.

Assuming these adults did so. As I said in my first post on this thread there may well be a non-pervert explanation for this.
As for you tube postings I don't think the girls that do it are doing themselves any favours but, as you say, it's up to them.
Many a time I have a small camera with me for a variety of reasons but none cover taking shots of girls in the street. It seems that some posts and indeed the thread title assume a man with a camera is a perv.
Both silly and dangerous to assume such a thing. Imagine some poor bloke being dragged off to the police station accused by a hysterical woman in the street of being a perv. Far fetched ?maybe or maybe not looking at some of the posts.

...sorry, I wasn't for a a second suggesting the 2 guys were behaving improperly.

Very arrogant, aren't you? Read what the girls mother has written.

''they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness they were staring at them,my daughter,s friend started to run when they got off and one of them said did you get that meaning from their behind''

1/ they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness

2/ they were being stared at

3/ one of them said did you get that

Who are you to suggest these girls are immature and neurotic .. why should anyone be made to feel like this?

Also, you say about a certain scenario a ''skimpily dressed'' women who ''obviously doesn't have a problem in flaunting herself''. So what , does this give a photographer the right to chase after her taking a photo .. ilke the two very young girls on the tram.

I find your attitude breathtaking.
I have been out all day in Sherwood Forest taking pictures of, would you believe of all things "people."

Back to the problem on the tram. There is many a time I have needed to take a picture only to find someone is in the way and rather than say to them would you mind moving to one side please and risk getting a rude reply, I try to work round them. Of course they may be in the shot and if they are of a certain "disposition" they might imagine I was a pervert taking pictures of them when nothing could be further from the truth.

All I can say with regard to the girls on the tram, is firstly they could have asked if they were in the way and would they like them to move? The reply would have given them a clue. If they were still concerned they could have moved seats and if the camera lens followed them I would be worried, and likewise if the girls got off the tram as I believe they did and the men followed them, then I think there is cause for concern.

The question is were the men taking pictures of the trams interior and for myself I don't mind the occasional person being in the shot because I think it gives it a bit of life and interest, but as I say if the girls had moved and still found themselves being photographed, then obviously they are taking pictures of the girls rather than the tram and something needs to be done.

No phobia of cameras, but happy to jump to conclusions about motives of the blokes with cameras?

ok, maybe that is jumping to a conclusion but whatever, my choice of wording was wrong, sorry to upset you, i'll just shut up now

I was taking photographs a few feet away from people yesterday and no one bothered in the slightest. These are of the 2007 Robin Hood festival. They look better if you press F11 for a full screen. Enjoy.

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/GKirkby/RobinHoodFestival2007/photo#s5094083845835343410

...and no one bothered in the slightest.
I suspect that is because people can see why someone would want to take pics at an event like that, whereas people (myself included) don't understand why some photogs choose the subjects they do, like the interior of the tram.

So (some) assume the worst.

Edit:
I used to work at a 'living museum' tourist attraction. Numerous times I saw people with SLRs taking pics of what to me were very mundane subjects (coils of rope, close ups of stone walls etc), though strangely I am starting to appreciate such things more myself!

Edit:
I used to work at a 'living museum' tourist attraction. Numerous times I saw people with SLRs taking pics of what to me were very mundane subjects (coils of rope, close ups of stone walls etc), though strangely I am starting to appreciate such things more myself!

...even stranger is the fact that I often find myself hitting my head on a stone wall or slipping my head in a coiled rope reading some of the posts on here..present company excluded of course! :D :D :D

Am I mistaken or has any actually stated that a photograph was actually taken, whether in or off the tram.

All I have seen is:
men with cameras ... staring ... getting off at the same stop .... saying "did you get it" (or something similar) ...

Did they actually take any pictures?

.. or have I missed something?

Well I asked that too but we never got a straight answer from the OP.

Well I asked that too but we never got a straight answer from the OP.

sehas`nt really said a lot since starting this thread:huh:

sehas`nt really said a lot since starting this thread:huh:

She's taken appropriate action and is waiting for a response:

hi just reading the latest posts, i feel i need to get my point across and just say when my daughter first told me i didn,t really take much notice then she mentioned it again thats when i put on the post i asked her to run thriugh it again and obviosly she added more, she,s only 13 and didn,t fully explain to me the first time, me personally knows the full story and have contacted the tram department still waiting for them to get back to me, i understand peoples opinions of this thread but i thought putting it on somebody might have experienced similar sort of thing, i know my daughter is telling me the truth, and i have to go with my gut instinct and take it further .

She's taken appropriate action and is waiting for a response:

That's the perfect way to do it. If the kids mis-understood, over reacted or lied that's one thing. If there is a crackpot perv on the loose that's another.
I'm sure the trams have loads of cctv available and there is a good chance that will answer the question.
Still think a perv would have to be pretty crazy to try to take photos of fully clothed kids in as enclosed public place with few escape routes and loads of cctv about. Seems not to add up really but who knows.

i dont know what to make of it but cant stop thinking about it should this be allowed to happen ? broad day light in town its really scared them whats going on /

The thing is that this makes it sound as if these men are guilty of something with no proof at all. We don't even know if the girls were telling the truth or even if the men existed at all but the poster assumes there are perverts taking photos of kids in sheffield.

It's the way we are told to think (or not think) these days that really worries me about the way our society is heading.

there is the same problem with taking funf fair photos i tend to take them when there close as i know fun fair fans who have had problems because of young kids on the rides thier taking pictures of.

ive been very unnerved about my daughter and her friend coming back from the skates on the tram this afternoon, two men around about 40 ish was taking photographs of them from their camera, i thought she said their camera phone but it was a proper camera with a lens they were sat on the tram minding their own buisness they were staring at them,my daughter,s friend started to run when they got off and one of them said did you get that meaning from their behind, they were quite scared they are both 13 years of age , i dont know what to make of it but cant stop thinking about it should this be allowed to happen ? broad day light in town its really scared them whats going on /

unofrtunately there is no law to stop them from taking pictures of people, this was on the TV recently and the police backed up the guy taking the pics.

I was taking photographs a few feet away from people yesterday and no one bothered in the slightest. These are of the 2007 Robin Hood festival. They look better if you press F11 for a full screen. Enjoy.

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/GKirkby/RobinHoodFestival2007/photo#s5094083845835343410

yup you have a pic there full of kids, as a parent if i saw that i'd not be concerned, there are plenty of justifications to pictures, people just jump to conclusions and end up in hot water. The only time i've ever felt negative towards the whole subject is when i was told at junglemania not to take a pic of the kid on the bouncy castle, and if it wasen't my daughter i wouldn't have minded, i told them to basically get stuffed

The problem we have with society now is that we are so paranoid with any behaviour which we would not do ourselves we automatically think they are pervs/idiots and a a threat to the nation.


I (As do a lot of other people) photograph buses/trains / trams and have been doing so since the late 1970's.

There are problems sometimes, however that is nothing compared with if you try to photograph street furniture , if there is a problem locally with potholes, street lights etc I report it , like I always have done, but now with digital technology and e mail take a photo as well , in some cases this can save the council (And your money) having to come out to inspect it, however the panic from some people when you are photographing a street light or a pot hole even if there are no kids around is totally out of proportion what I am doing .

Yes as a society we need to be vigilant especially in the current circumstances, however, the UK as always been innocent until found guilty and a polite question always works especially with street faults as you can see what the problem is.

And before anyone says it’s a waist of time , they always get done if they are within the councils criteria for repiar.

Any way must go Ive not got time to talk to you just off to phtograph a leaning lamp post bye bye hope to be back quickly unless I end up haveing an argumetn with someone who thinks I am threat to the nation.

Originally Posted by cgksheff
There is no law to stop you taking photographs of anyone in a public place. Posters are mistaken in suggesting that there is.

Private landowners have the right to restrict who comes onto their land and what they do.

Police may choose to suggest that what you are doing "may lead to a breach of the peace", "be contrary to the Prevention of Terrorism Act" or whatever and you would be foolish to ignore their suggestion .....

BUT it is NOT illegal to photo men, women, children, babies, dogs or wombats in a public place.

(doesn't mean that those two characters weren't a bit dodgy, though)


Not true...... It is illegal to take photos of children without the written consent of parents.... The childrens Act 2000.

is problem last week with a korean looking man in netherthorpe
apparently taking landscape pictures
yet he was in an area full of kids playing and he snapped my little one and her friend

is problem last week with a korean looking man in netherthorpe
apparently taking landscape pictures
yet he was in an area full of kids playing and he snapped my little one and her friend

...and how did you feel about that?

Not true...... It is illegal to take photos of children without the written consent of parents.... The childrens Act 2000.

So are you saying that If I take a picture of the town hall and the peace gardens is in the foreground (and there are children in the Peace Gardens) I am breaking the law?

i rang 101
patrol car came within 5 mins looking for him
not heard if they found him
he had no bags or anything,just a posh lensed camera round his neck
my kids were scared a bit as he just took the picture and scuttled off towards the ponderosa which again is full of kids so yes i was un nerved as he claimed to be doing landscape pics

i rang 101
patrol car came within 5 mins looking for him
not heard if they found him
he had no bags or anything,just a posh lensed camera round his neck
my kids were scared a bit as he just took the picture and scuttled off towards the ponderosa which again is full of kids so yes i was un nerved as he claimed to be doing landscape pics


..well don't worry Tia he probably was just taking landscape pics, there's lots of fab material down there and I know amateur photographers prefer having live subjects in such pics for added interest.

Forgive me for using the racial stereotype, but Japanese tourists are reknowned snappers at basically anything that moves or doesn't!

Hope your kids weren't too frightened by the whole experience, including the arrival of the police.

i rang 101
patrol car came within 5 mins looking for him



Incidentally, for the information of previous doubting posters on this thread, this illustrates how seriously the police take reports of this nature.

Why would he have bags? Do you think tourists carry their luggage everywhere with them? And look at the language used to describe his behaviour.. scuttled off towards the Ponderosa which is again full of kids. The only word you missed out there was furtively. Maybe he was wringing his hands too. For Heaven's sake, he took the picture and went, presumably oblivious to the fact that he'd already been accused of being a paedophile.

well why would he have an expensive camera in an area full of kids!
hope to god you have no kids that get put in that situation!!!!
and why wouldnt he have a bag for the camera???
i was just saying as it was!
why would he stand outside taking snaps of trees for 5 or 10 minutes but then hurry away after he was seen taking pics of young girls in their summer clothes!
hope you are never put in that situation and god forbid if your kids were!!!!
until the police see the film or camera how can any parent know exactly what he was snapping at in an area full of kids!
you think cus he says he snapping landscape,actually means he is???what and how do you know who to trust
have you never read or seen tv reports with young girls pics on websites???!!!
as i said,until i know whats on the camera,how am i to know eh

lets see you take your kids in summer clothes to the peace gardens or somewhere where its known and common that men film young girls....then lets see what you have to say!

How do you know he was snapping landscapes? Did you interrogate him yourself? Why wouldn't he have a camera bag... because he'd parked just round the corner and left it there maybe. Why shouldn't he have an expensive camera in an area full of kids? And what gives you the right to demand to know what's on his camera or film?

Maybe he hurried away because he was afraid of getting lynched by people like you. These threads just get more bizarre by the minute. Maybe we should just ban all forms of photography and be done with it. And while we're at it we can blind everyone so they wouldn't be able to look at kids.

lets see you take your kids in summer clothes to the peace gardens or somewhere where its known and common that men film young girls....then lets see what you have to say!

Well I've asked on the other thread whether anyone has ever been arrested or cautioned for this so we'll see what the answer is.

well why would he have an expensive camera in an area full of kids!
hope to god you have no kids that get put in that situation!!!!
and why wouldnt he have a bag for the camera???





Hes obviously a paedo, lock him up and throw away the key.

God, how paranoid is society becoming? and no, this post isn't a wind up.

and as i said i didnt and havnt accused him of anything !
funny though how i rang 101 and 2 cars were here within 5 mins and 2 on foot on the park area
why would they do that eh as i didnt ring and accuse i rang to say a man had snapped 2 very young girls on his camera and asked advise!
i dont know if it was something or nothing do i!
and as for wanting to see whats on the camera....wouldnt most parents of young girls want to know how exposed they have been??!!!
sorry for being a concerned mother eh!

nothing to do with being paranoid but do none of you read papers???
where do most shots come from that are on the web??!!!outa space??!!!

i think i have every right when my kid is on a photo on his camera
i guess you are not a parent!

You guess wrong then.

Where do most shots come from that are on the web? What sort of shots are we on about here?

If your kids were fully clothed and not engaging in any sexual acts then I don't really see any great reason why you ought to be that worried. Look at any photo sharing site ... lots of pictures of kids playing in the sun, in playgrounds, on swings, running around. Terrible images. The people who took them ought to be hunted down presumably.

well why would he have an expensive camera in an area full of kids!
hope to god you have no kids that get put in that situation!!!!
and why wouldnt he have a bag for the camera???
i was just saying as it was!
why would he stand outside taking snaps of trees for 5 or 10 minutes but then hurry away after he was seen taking pics of young girls in their summer clothes!
hope you are never put in that situation and god forbid if your kids were!!!!
until the police see the film or camera how can any parent know exactly what he was snapping at in an area full of kids!
you think cus he says he snapping landscape,actually means he is???what and how do you know who to trust
have you never read or seen tv reports with young girls pics on websites???!!!
as i said,until i know whats on the camera,how am i to know eh

Had some sympathy with your original post, but your anger and response seems to be out of proportion to what you said actually happened.

Korean man with expensive camera takes pictures of trees and fully clothed children, who may have been in the picture purely incidentally. He finishes taking the pictures and goes about his business..is that about it?

What is 'the situation' your kids were in? Had the man approached and asked them to pose provotically? Had he made any indecent references/gestures? What did your children think to a panda car arriving and the ensuing manhunt, guess that was quite frightening too?

From what you've said, it appears the snapper was being naive at best or rude at worse.

As it seems important to you establishing the status of your detractors, I'm a middle aged parent.

Its getting to a point where a man can't take a pictures with a camera, without being accused of being a paedo

well if you lot think its acceptable for men you do not know just taking pics of young girls without asking your consent...what can i say!
i would never take pics of other kids without asking consent...for whatever the reason

yes they were clothed but my point is i do not think it right to take pics of other kids without consent,the kids woudnt have been scared if they thought it was ok to do it
why when there is all the crime going on...why would i merely make a call to 101 to then have all that patrol sent to the area?!i didnt ask them to
he didnt speak he just took pics of them but why just walk away when i appeared?he could have said or asked if it was ok with my as they are my kids not his

Not true...... It is illegal to take photos of children without the written consent of parents.... The childrens Act 2000.


Do you have a source for this, as I can find no such thing as The Children's Act 2000. The closest I found was an Act from 2004, which as far as I can tell makes no mention of photography.

nobody said a man cannot take a pic but dunt you think a parent has a right to know for what nature whether or art of college or whatever?

well if you lot think its acceptable for men you do not know just taking pics of young girls without asking your consent...what can i say!
i would never take pics of other kids without asking consent...for whatever the reason

...well if your argument is about failing to seek consent then that's fair enough, but does it merit the urgent involvement of the police?? Just because he didn't seek your consent doesn't mean his motives were in anyway sinister.

Have you visited London recently or any large tourist centre? There are generally hundreds of foreigners taking pictures of anything that moves..or not. I've seen a Japanese tourist chasing an emtpy MacD box, drifting in the wind, for an elusive picture, to the huge amusement of passing motorists.

I guess if the pics are for any commercial use or are going to be reproduced then seeking consent is appropriate, otherwise it don't bother me at all.

maybe he was niave and purely innocent but who can you trust in this world

He was probably blissfully unaware; other nations probably aren't so paranoid as we evidently are.

Just answer me this then Tia. Why exactly would someone travel all the way from Korea, to a place like Sheffield as opposed to London or some seaside resort for example, just to take a photo of your kids, who he miraculously knew were going to be there? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I must say if this thread is your way of not accusing him of anything, I'd hate to see one where you did. :hihi:

nobody said a man cannot take a pic but dunt you think a parent has a right to know for what nature whether or art of college or whatever?


Not particualrly, no.

I think that it might be good manners on behalf of the photog to ask if it's ok to take a shot, but there could be any number of reasons why asking (particularly in advance) might not be appropriate.

The point being, there's no reason why parents should feel so paranoid. Only media frenzy means that everyone is so hyped up about paedos. As I said much earlier in this thread, they make up a much smaller percentage of the population than genuine photogs.

well why would he have an expensive camera in an area full of kids!
hope to god you have no kids that get put in that situation!!!!
and why wouldnt he have a bag for the camera???
i was just saying as it was!
why would he stand outside taking snaps of trees for 5 or 10 minutes but then hurry away after he was seen taking pics of young girls in their summer clothes!
hope you are never put in that situation and god forbid if your kids were!!!!
until the police see the film or camera how can any parent know exactly what he was snapping at in an area full of kids!
you think cus he says he snapping landscape,actually means he is???what and how do you know who to trust
have you never read or seen tv reports with young girls pics on websites???!!!
as i said,until i know whats on the camera,how am i to know eh

so you assume that as he might have taken a picture of your daughter, then he is obviously a pervert?? Christ, between this and the OP stating that the chaps on the tram were 'staring' at the girls on the tram.....what to do? ban all cameras and implant devices in all male heads to make sure that they cant stare at anyone for longer than three seconds just on the off chance they might be a perv? eh?

i merely rang 101 to ask if it was ok for someone to take pics of kids in the street
they pursued the matter as urgent,not me

maybe he was niave and purely innocent but who can you trust in this world

so you dont trust anyone in the world then? that must make life awfully difficult for you

i didnt say anywhere that he was he in sheffield to see my kid
it could have been any child i agree but as a parent i still think its wrong to just take pics

my lifes far from difficult
but if you are saying you trust everyone you know and meet then you a brave person

no, i dont trust everyone i meet, but the overwhelming majority i do. how on earth would you manage to make friends or meet a partner if you dont trust anyone?

maybe he was niave and purely innocent but who can you trust in this world

..thats an important statement Tia, ideally we should learn to trust everyone and not be immediately suspicious of everyone and their behaviour.

The alternative is that we raise a generation of children who are judgemental, paranoid haters or petrified to leave the comfort of their mother's bosom and engage with the world.

If you look at it another way, what would have been his reaction if he'd seen you coming towards him with a beaming smile, to ask him politely what he was taking pictures of? The perception you had of him behaving furtively may well have been completely different.

and which of my posts said he was a perv???
i merely think i have a right to be consenting to pics of my kids being taken

I still haven't worked this out really, it's almost as confused as the episode on the tram. How come he didn't speak, and yet a few posts back he said he was taking landscape pictures? Who did he say that to?

a lady down the road was concerned too and she asked what he was doing
he said landscape,she said kids were not landscape and he would be better in an area that was as parents could get the wrong idea if he was snapping pics of kids with no consent

i merely think i have a right to be consenting to pics of my kids being taken

...and in an ideal world, yes it would probably be right to seek consent before taking pictures of people, but what's so sinful about taking unposed pictures of fully clothed children?

a lady down the road was concerned too and she asked what he was doing
he said landscape,she said kids were not landscape and he would be better in an area that was as parents could get the wrong idea if he was snapping pics of kids with no consent

And you're surprised he went away at that point?

i never said it was sinful and i wasnt the only parent that was concerned
it was just odd thats all,landscape is not kids
and why from me asking 101 if its ok for kids pics to be taken with no consent would that kind of patrol come to the area.i didnt ask them to,i asked a question

This thread is actually quite scary, I took my nieces and nephews to Rivelin at the weekend, as the weather was nice. I took a camera with me, to take pictures.

I let the kids play on the swings, and I sat down on the grass keeping an eye on the children. The most scary thing is, people may have thought I was dodgy, as I was a man on my own with a camera next to me.

Thank god no one called the police. This thread really has opened my eyes

but why just go if he was ok before parents saw him take pics of kids?i aint said he a perv but dunt you think that looks odd?nobody had a go at him,no-one showed him we were concerned even

how about a landscape with people in? there are a lot of us in the world so they may encroach into peoples landscape pics, and shock horror some may be kids.

but why just go if he was ok before parents saw him take pics of kids?i aint said he a perv but dunt you think that looks odd?nobody had a go at him,no-one showed him we were concerned even

But from what you just said it sounds as though the other woman basically told him to clear off to somewhere different!

but why just go if he was ok before parents saw him take pics of kids?i aint said he a perv but dunt you think that looks odd?nobody had a go at him,no-one showed him we were concerned even

..why can't he just go about his business like everyone else.

How close to your kids was he when he took the pictures? Where were you at the time? Are you sure he was taking pictures of the children?

You said no one showed they were concerned, but earlier you said a woman had asked him what he was doing and basically told him there were better places to take landscape pictures...so he went!!

yes it was of the kids as they ran in a little shaken as to them he was a stranger and i respect that from the kids,they didnt know him,the woman wasnt nasty but she just asked as her young girl was out playing too.she purely made a comment she didnt tell him to go

maybe he was niave and purely innocent but who can you trust in this world

And assuming that he was 99.99999% innocent of any crime, who's the one with the mucky mind?

maybe its the world i live in that makes parents minds like that though

You mean the world where 92% of offences against children are committed in the safety of the family home by family members or friends?

maybe its the world i live in that makes parents minds like that though


Well when I have kids I shall not be "protecting" them from people who take photos. Because, frankly, there's nothing to fear from a camera.

maybe its the world i live in that makes parents minds like that though


...well you live in the same word I do Tia, fortunately where the chances of a child encountering a paedophile unknown to them is miniscule, where we no longer shove our children up chimneys, our children don't starve due to poverty, where healthcare is free, education for under 18's is free, where our female offspring have the same opportunities as our male ones and...and hey the best it...the sun's shining in Sheffield!! :)

i give up
i was a concerned parent that felt a bit protective of my young daughter who was close to a 'stranger' that took a pic of her,i will have to teach her its ok from now on

You mean the world where 92% of offences against children are committed in the safety of the family home by family members or friends?

exactly! do we outlaw all family members from taking pics? just on the offchance that they maybe a perv?
no

i give up
i was a concerned parent that felt a bit protective of my young daughter who was close to a 'stranger' that took a pic of her,i will have to teach her its ok from now on

...there exists a happy balance somewhere.

maybe he was niave and purely innocent but who can you trust in this world


“To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved.”

George MacDonald. Scottish author, poet, and Christian minister.

well i will tell my little girl the other 8% on the outside that are strangers are ok

family members are people you actually know

family members are people you actually know

so that means they will never be abusers?? wrong, as someone posted earlier, most cases of child abuse are by people the kids already know, immediate family and friends etc

family members are people you actually know

so are most of the abusers - family/friends/neighbours - we could do with something like this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4077008.stm) here to sort out the hysteria and myths :)

well i will tell my little girl the other 8% on the outside that are strangers are ok

It's right that our children should know about the potential dangers out there, but not to the extent that it paralyses them emotionally and socially and ruins the varied opportunities they should be enjoying in life.

i never said that and i agree that it happens in families but its still wrong for folk to assume the other 8% of strangers are ok and to be trusted
they are strangers for a reason

it doesnt spoil anything they do but as a parent i feel i have a responsibilty for them and one of them is that they should stay away from strangers

and emotionally it did have a little effect on her that a stranger got that close to her and took a pic
how do you suggest i handle that
he was a stranger to her

The worlds gone mad

and emotionally it did have a little effect on her that a stranger got that close to her and took a pic
how do you suggest i handle that
he was a stranger to her


Personally, I'd try to teach her not to be so bothered by such things, so she doesn't grow up feeling paranoid.

i never said that and i agree that it happens in families but its still wrong for folk to assume the other 8% of strangers are ok and to be trusted
they are strangers for a reason

no love, the figures quoted were that only 8% were unknown to the child, 92% were known to the child and thus not strangers.
so while 'stranger danger' is valid in some situations, it is more likely to be family member X.

i never said that and i agree that it happens in families but its still wrong for folk to assume the other 8% of strangers are ok and to be trusted
they are strangers for a reason


...most of the nicest people I've met have been strangers at some point..like all my friends, the nice bloke who helped my mum with her shopping last week..even my ex wife!!

i agree that they are strangers first
but i cannot teach a 7 year old that at her age when it was an older man she didnt know

and emotionally it did have a little effect on her that a stranger got that close to her and took a pic
how do you suggest i handle that
he was a stranger to her

I'm not surprised she was upset, you've obviously indoctrinated her with the idea that anyone she doesn't know personally is a dangerous monster. I think she was probably scared more by your reaction than anything the photographer was doing.

i was a concerned parent that felt a bit protective of my young daughter who was close to a 'stranger' that took a pic of her,i will have to teach her its ok from now on

Or you could always try teaching her realistic, unhysterical awareness and a sense of perspective. You could also teach her that strangers are not all to be feared, the vast majority are perfectly harmless. You could also try teaching her to see situations from other people's point of view, to spot possible misunderstandings, and not to jump to conclusions, but you'd have to learn those skills yourself first.

my kids are taught right and wrong and she doesnt have a fear of all people she doesnt know but dont you think she has her own mind and a sense that it not really right for a man to go towards them and take pics?and from her own point of view,not mine,it was a frightening happening
how grown up do you think 7 years old?
she has never had a fear and i have never told her to be scared of strangers,i do know what and how to teach my kids
maybe you are all saying a 7 year old thats maybe still not grown up enough and a bit naive should have known better than to think a strange man taking pics was purely innocent

Well I've asked on the other thread whether anyone has ever been arrested or cautioned for this so we'll see what the answer is.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2007/08/05/1186252524660.html

A self-proclaimed paedophile who admitted to attending a Wiggles concert and other public events in the US to watch and photograph young girls has been booted out of California.

Los Angeles County Superior Court judge Melvin Sandvig yesterday slapped a landmark temporary restraining order on Jack McClellan which makes it almost impossible for the 45-year-old American to live in California.

McClellan, who has appeared on US TV talkshows and openly admitted to being a paedophile, horrified US parents and child advocacy groups by setting up a website rating the best public areas to view little girls.

my kids are taught right and wrong and she doesnt have a fear of all people she doesnt know but dont you think she has her own mind and a sense that it not really right for a man to go towards them and take pics?and from her own point of view,not mine,it was a frightening happening
how grown up do you think 7 years old?
she has never had a fear and i have never told her to be scared of strangers,i do know what and how to teach my kids
maybe you are all saying a 7 year old thats maybe still not grown up enough and a bit naive should have known better than to think a strange man taking pics was purely innocent

Tell her she was a a good girl for coming home if she felt uncomfortable - a 7 year old won't understand the subtleties anyway.

But then remember to tell yourself that this sounds like there was nothing to worry about. Think about it - what use would there be in some bloke of 'that' mind taking the risk of photographing a fully clothed kid (and I hope she was?) in the open, when he could get billions, trillions of such photos online or in every magazine and newspaper anyway and nobody would suspect anything?

Your daughter was afraid - that's fine for a 7 year old. You have no need to be afraid however.

thank for that mathon
a little thought for the feelings of a 7 year old is very much appreciated

A few months ago I was taking panoramic pictures over Sheffield and for one shot I went to Upperthorpe and took pictures of Wincobank Hill.

Some people have funny hobbies, except I don't think it is, but however because I was taking photographs are you going to tell me I'm a paeodophile.

no youre not mate, im sure i have inadvertantly photographed members of the public every now and then when im snapping pics of rainbows on my mobile. does that make me one?? no, im too busy looking at the big bloody rainbow in the sky!! with retrospect im sure people must have thought i was a bit odd, taking random pics around sheff!

grahame....i think you have missed the point of this thread
we are not just talking about fixtures and fitting we were saying is it right for kids to be photographed with no consent and that parents should just accept it
and my point was about a stranger phyisacally walking towards my 7 year old and taking it and it scaring her

i get the fact folk take pics and never said anyone was wrong as long as its doesnt directly involve small kids with no one having a right to have an opinion,especially when its your child

i get the fact folk take pics and never said anyone was wrong as long as its doesnt directly involve small kids with no one having a right to have an opinion,especially when its your child


You're not getting it though. The opposing point is that

There is no reason why someone should have to feel scared of someone else with a camera. The chance of that person being a peado is incredibly small

And yet it seems to be the first thought of a number of contributors to this thread.

and it wouldnt have scared you at the age of 7 in this day and age?
i will remind my 7 year old then that you all agree she was stupid even thinking it a bit odd and that its ok
and i never said he was a peado did i
well if i missed the point and my child is thick then god forbid that in a scary situation that she doesnt understand ever happens again that it might be someone with a motive eh

sorry she missed the point and that everyone is honest you like you lot and the rest of the population

and it wouldnt have scared you at the age of 7 in this day and age?
i will remind my 7 year old then that you all agree she was stupid even thinking it a bit odd and that its ok
and i never said he was a peado did i
well if i missed the point and my child is thick then god forbid that in a scary situation that she doesnt understand ever happens again that it might be someone with a motive eh

chances are its not eh?
is more likely to be someone she knows

I give up. This thread is going around in circles. Good luck to all who sail in her.

you could say that for most of the threads on here, esp the political ones.......why do any of us bother

grahame....i think you have missed the point of this thread
we are not just talking about fixtures and fitting we were saying is it right for kids to be photographed with no consent and that parents should just accept it
and my point was about a stranger phyisacally walking towards my 7 year old and taking it and it scaring her

To be honest I don't take pictures of children as such, they may get into shot or be part of the composition but I would be taking photographs of something like a big dipper for example and I cant understand people getting hysterical about something like that. But a photographer walking right up to someone and taking pictures of them and them alone and not as part of the general scene, then yes I would want to know what was going on and you would be right to be concerned. Just to try and put your mind at peace, I don't think those are the sorts of pictures a paedophile would take anyway, in fact I can't imagine why anyone would want to take pictures of someone else's children. It isn't only children though, I got severely told off for taking a picture of a horse would you believe.

thanks for that grahame
at least someone is seeing the actual points

May I venture to suggest that the gentleman in question was a visitor and possibly staying in the St Paul's hotel and that his use of the word landscape probably means surroundings. It is likely that his English was not that good.

In my opinion the Peace Gardens is a public place that is much photographed. My son is more grown up now but if I did not want him photographed I would not take him to the Peace Gardens or anywhere public for that matter. If I see something that makes me uncomfortable I move on because it is me that is having the problem.

As someone else pointed out there are cctv cameras all over the place now with people watching what is going on, are we accusing them of being pervs? I don't know what checks are made on the people who operate our surveillance systems but I'll bet they are not up to much. So for this reason I would be careful about public places in general.

I think its very easy to get overly paranoid about things like this. Most people with cameras I see around town I don't think twice about, since I work in town I often see people taking tourist shots or arty photos of fargate.. but sometimes you get a gut feeling about someone - for example, early one morning on my walk into work up the moor a guy was walking towards me and just before we passed each other he took a photo of me on his camera phone. I doubt very much that he was taking a landscape shot or practicing his photography skills, he was looking at me and holding his phone up towards me, then at the last minute he took a photo.

Theres something about it that makes me feel uneasy. I wonder what he wanted the photo for, what he's done with it since, who he's shown it to. It just feels like an invasion of my space. Like he has a little bit of me I didn't want to give him. :suspect:

Maybe if he'd been a gorgeous young man I wouldn't have minded :hihi:, but he was a grubby middle aged man who should have more respect.

that was a good response
same point i was trying to make about a man waking up to my young daughter and doing it but i posted that and got linched like me and my 7 year old are mad people and should accept it

that was a good response
same point i was trying to make about a man waking up to my young daughter and doing it but i posted that and got linched like me and my 7 year old are mad people and should accept it

is problem last week with a korean looking man in netherthorpe
apparently taking landscape pictures
yet he was in an area full of kids playing and he snapped my little one and her friend

Which was it, taking landscape pictures in area with kids around, or walking up to you daughter and taking a picture. It's not the same thing by a long stretch.

the fact he took pics of the kids

the fact he took pics of the kids

Tia you may not have called this man a "perv" but more or less you have insinuated that he is. I understand you're concerned as a parent, maybe even a little paranoid but like other posters have mentioned pedophilia is more likely to happen within the family.

If you haven't seen the pictures for yourself then I suggest you reserve judgment a little. It's seems like the language barrier has not helped in resolving this issue.

and how can i see the pics...

If you haven't got proof & don't know if the photographer (notice I didn't say pedophile) was actually doing anything wrong then why make out that his intentions were harmful.

How would you like it if I said you were a bad parent based on a coincidental event that I happened to see?

no i havnt seen the pics so can do i know whats on the camera plus i am n ot paranoid....my 7 year old felt uncomfy so maybe she is the one you all say is paranoid that a stranger has walked up to her and blatently took the photos,maybe she shouldnt have been scared in this day and age...just as he wasnt someone she knew and wasnt a family member

and if i were the bad parent i wouldnt have taught her about strangers would ido you tell your kids to be that close to folk they do not know and have no idea what they are about??
and i would hate to see threads on here again about this and then parents moaning(god forbid it happens!) that their kids face has appeared on the net anywhere
thats coincidental then is it?!

my point was that the pics shouldnt have been taken in her face like that when it scared her and she didnt know him
but then you have said its purely a coincidence as you let folk snap your kids in the street and you dunt bat an eyelid

call me a bad parent,i really dont mind as all the rest have but at least the concern of my kid came 1st and her felling that a man walked up to her
while you call me a bad parent,say a word for my 7 year old too...that he scared

no i havnt seen the pics so can do i know whats on the camera plus i am n ot paranoid....my 7 year old felt uncomfy so maybe she is the one you all say is paranoid that a stranger has walked up to her and blatently took the photos,maybe she shouldnt have been scared in this day and age...just as he wasnt someone she knew and wasnt a family member

Notice the emboldened words, why would anyone in public with devious intentions blantantly take a picture of a fully dressed young
child?

This thread is going round in circles, it's ok to be a concerned parent but there is a line between this and accusing innocent (until proven guilty) men.

Just keep your eye on Uncle Bob & also Jim at No.10. They're more likely to be a danger to your daughter/son

call me a bad parent,i really dont mind as all the rest have but at least the concern of my kid came 1st and her felling that a man walked up to her
while you call me a bad parent,say a word for my 7 year old too...that he scared

Tia I do not know you & I'm not calling you a bad parent, just using an example of how vindicated this man would probably feel.

So you still haven't told us exactly how close this man got. 10 feet? 5 feet? 1 foot?

well if you lived in this area where there has been lots of things going off lately then you,but i doubt it,would have concern if your kids ran in your home scared
i will tell the cops not to be so judgemental too,silly cops eh,i ring and ask if its ok to have your kid pictured in street and thats ALL i asked and the nits (because of the high priority for the area)actually sent 2 cars and 2 on foot!
whats the world coming to eh,even cops are as bad as me!maybe they are parents too

Another similar thread refers to a similar problem in the peace gardens.

Why not search everyone entering the Peace Gardens and confiscate their mobile phones. And while you're at it you'd better black out all of the windows overlooking the peace gardens.

Any Paedophile could easily take Hi quality pictures unseen with current technologies. THe paranoia in these threads merely hits ordinary normal people that like taking photos.

well if you lived in this area where there has been lots of things going off lately then you,but i doubt it,would have concern if your kids ran in your home scared
i will tell the cops not to be so judgemental too,silly cops eh,i ring and ask if its ok to have your kid pictured in street and thats ALL i asked and the nits (because of the high priority for the area)actually sent 2 cars and 2 on foot!
whats the world coming to eh,even cops are as bad as me!maybe they are parents too

Because you gave them a biased view of the situation?

Another similar thread refers to a similar problem in the peace gardens.

Why not search everyone entering the Peace Gardens and confiscate their mobile phones. And while you're at it you'd better black out all of the windows overlooking the peace gardens.

Any Paedophile could easily take Hi quality pictures unseen with current technologies. THe paranoia in these threads merely hits ordinary normal people that like taking photos.

When I stayed at St Paul's Hotel I could see Peace Gardens from my room. My god I took lots of pictures, I must now go in to hiding so nobody calls 101 on me!

sad sad sad
did i say it was in the peace gardens,did i use the word perv or did i say i thought it wrong a stranger went up to a 7 year old and took a pic which made her scared
god wish i could read and was a responsible parent too

oh yes and i own cameras but wouldnt make a child i didnt know that scared by going and taking pics
why would i want to take pics of other kids anyway
so glad i am bringing up a thick child that should know better than to run home to tell her parents

baised????
i rang 101 as a man scared my kid and asked ONE QUESTION which was is it ok for people to take pics of your kids with no concsent...and guess what....they said it wasnt ok and sent 2 cars and 2 on foot!!!!!
you need to learn to read before telling me the cops were at fault and my 7 year old is paranoid or maybe the cops and my kid are biased if thats what you meant

oh and or your records....if i had made out he was a perv i would have confronted him myself!!!!!
i didnt ,a neighbour did as it seemed odd
i rang and asked one question and was told it wasnt right!
they took the situation on,silly cops,not me