What would happen if you were in a Bar, and a Chav picked a fight with you?

Are you in a postition where you have to say to the attacker..... " I must point out, that I do Martial Arts and I'm a Black Belt."

Or would you beat they guy up first?

How would the law view a Martial Arts expert beating someone up? obviously, as they are in a different position to someone who has never trained before.

Depends what your a black belt in !!!!!!!!
You should be confident enough to let the guy think hes won verbally, but keep in mind if it goes physical, hit the ****er first and hard !!

I always wondered if you had to warn the assailant, always seemed datf to me.

Kick the assailants head in first then ask questions later.

Exactly mate !!! why give your attacker any warning, you didn't ask to be abused, so if it goes physical, thats his problem, we train scenario replications, its stuff that happens in the real world.

Is this another RobbyBrown trolling attempt?
...I'll bite anyway!

Warn them, no. They started the trouble.
I would try to avoid a scrap though. Even if that means it appears to the arse that he 'won'.

Guess I'm a bit paranoid about the court/jury view of MA too.

Bang on Dafoot, I agree,
Trolling ? If he is he will be hunted down and tortured like a dog !!!!

Remember Trolls we can find you HA HA !!!!!

As any martial art is.... a form of self defense & only to be used in a situation where you were attacked.Any practitioner of any of the arts would be taught this on day one.

As any martial art is.... a form of self defense & only to be used in a situation where you were attacked.Any practitioner of any of the arts would be taught this on day one.

pre-emptive strikes are perfectly legal - having said that though i'd always try and talk my way out of something or walk away - the name of the game's self-protection, and that includes protecting oneself from a night in the cells! a bit hard for the old ego to take sometimes, but that's another subject and it's a long, LONG time since i've been in a street fight (wouldn't do my career prospects much good these days either!)

As any martial art is.... a form of self defense & only to be used in a situation where you were attacked.Any practitioner of any of the arts would be taught this on day one.


Hi,

Historically this is of course nonsense; martial arts include all the weapons training, and they were created so you could go out and impose your will on others.

In a modern society this isn't acceptable - but martial arts weren't created as self-defense, apart from, allegedley, some of the unarmed systems in Japan; where the people who developed such things as karate stayed under the rule of the blokes with swords.

Waiting to be attacked is also ridiculous; if you're in a situation where conflict is imminent, leg it or get your best shots in first.

pre-emptive strikes are perfectly legal -






Yes, and Geoge Bush thinks that too, and look at the mess its caused.

Yes, and Geoge Bush thinks that too, and look at the mess its caused.

George Bush used it as an excuse...but that's for another thread...

What happens when someone picks a fight with you....
And you're a Black Belt...?
simple... they lose!:D

I can understand you point of should i tell them, but if the block'ed wants to start at you.... then so be it.

Can i watch...:hihi:

[QUOTE=ANVIL;2484316]pre-emptive strikes are perfectly legal ?

So I thought he was going to hit me & I used my years of training to knock the **** out of him anyway officer.

SELF DEFENSE ONLY

[QUOTE=ANVIL;2484316]pre-emptive strikes are perfectly legal ?

So I thought he was going to hit me & I used my years of training to knock the **** out of him anyway officer.

SELF DEFENSE ONLY

if that's what you'd say, then you might get convicted - on the basis of what you said. most people get convicted on the basis of what they say, and not what they do. it is perfectly legal to use a pre-emptive strike as self-defence, however 'knocking the **** out of someone would illustrate thar reasonable force may not have been used, and pre-emptive strike or not, you must still demonstrate the use of reasonable force.

well its simple as this in the eyes of the law YOUR hands and feet are classed as deadly weapons and u will be charged with assult. So if u hit anyone in any other way apart from self defence and u can prove ur health was in danger sorry mate it jail. A judge will say u are trained and know where to strike there for ur in a much better advantage than the aggressor. But if u can prove u was in danger and u did`nt use eccesive force ie knock him out and put him in hospital with serious injurys u may get a warning

i would have thought anyone who has got to a high level would have significantly matured on a level to prevent them from beating someone up. unlikely anyone would want to lose face if they have been the aggressor so prob wont make a difference what u say to them. im also overly suspicious of anything concealed, people jumping in and looking over my shoulder in futuer. best to leave or restrain to ensure nothing goes too far. for the record im not high level martial artist.

some people seem to love violence aspect a bit a bit much

Remember Trolls we can find you HA HA !!!!!

So it would seem.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19980505/?GT1=10150

:o:D

Any Black belt should be disiplined enough not to get involved in the first place . It's not very often someone just walks up and wants to have a fight for no reason.

Any Black belt should be disiplined enough not to get involved in the first place . It's not very often someone just walks up and wants to have a fight for no reason.

Only the good ones. I have met a few that were out for the scrap but I always think I've let myself down if it come to blows.
Not had a scrap in a very long time as I find it so much easier to stand being called a puff (poof before some arse bothers to correct the slang version of the spelling) than bothering with them and getting kicked out of wherever you I was at the time.

Last time it did get that far the messing about with the coppers was just far too much hassle but I'll bet the loon's jaw was aching for a week. One palm heel strike under his jaw did the trick and stopped him in his tracks. Well it did after he landed. :D

I prefer the " putting them to sleep " method . Doesn't half make em look daft and scares the crap out of em.:hihi::thumbsup:

I prefer the " putting them to sleep " method . Doesn't half make em look daft and scares the crap out of em.:hihi::thumbsup:

If it's what I think with the neck lock take serious care. All to easy to snap the spine and that would look really bad on a CV.

But like you said, it would scare the merry doo doo out if them while trying to work out if you were going to finish them off or not.
I suppose if you were being very evil you could tell them to pray before they meet their maker and see just how much poo their undies can hold without leaking. :D

Pretty hard to snap spines, a neck crank definitely wouldn't be 'reasonable force' though and I wouldn't crucifix someone for calling me gay. Get a decent bjj/wrestling rear naked choke in and there's nowhere to go but unconscious. Probably be my favourite option too as no permanent damage whereas striking can go wrong even if you're good at it (plus I'm not great).

Once you have them in the lock they are as good as out but you do have to be very careful if you did ever try it.
I did it many times in training in very controlled conditions but would have to be in a very serious situation outside to consider it.
It would be all too easy to go that step too far and you may be supprised how easily the neck would snap when it's stretched as it is in that lock.

I would not suggest you try if unless you are very experienced and then ony as a last resort.

What would happen if you were in a Bar, and a Chav picked a fight with you?

Are you in a postition where you have to say to the attacker..... " I must point out, that I do Martial Arts and I'm a Black Belt."

Or would you beat they guy up first?

How would the law view a Martial Arts expert beating someone up? obviously, as they are in a different position to someone who has never trained before.

There's no requirement in law to warn someone that you train in martial arts.
In self defence terms you've already failed by letting the situation occur. If you can't talk your way out of it, have no option of just walking away and can only see it ending in violence, then you can act first as self defence doesn't mean you have to wait until someone actually punches you.

well its simple as this in the eyes of the law YOUR hands and feet are classed as deadly weapons and u will be charged with assult.
This isn't true. Carrying deadly weapons around is illegal. You may be charged with assualt, but so will the chav, if you have witnesses to what occured it's unlikely to go any further though.

So if u hit anyone in any other way apart from self defence and u can prove ur health was in danger sorry mate it jail. A judge will say u are trained and know where to strike there for ur in a much better advantage than the aggressor. But if u can prove u was in danger and u did`nt use eccesive force ie knock him out and put him in hospital with serious injurys u may get a warning

You could be charged with serious assaults on grammar and spelling, text speak is generally not acceptable...

Pretty hard to snap spines, a neck crank definitely wouldn't be 'reasonable force' though and I wouldn't crucifix someone for calling me gay. Get a decent bjj/wrestling rear naked choke in and there's nowhere to go but unconscious. Probably be my favourite option too as no permanent damage whereas striking can go wrong even if you're good at it (plus I'm not great).

Strangles and chokes can go wrong as well, you don't know what the medical history of the person is, and I suspect you're better off in front of the jury if a single punch went wrong than if you choked them out and they then have a haemorrhage somewhere important.

Any strike can be a major problem but some are far more dangerous than others. This neck lock is about as dangerous as it gets.
Too easy to cause serious damage to the soft tissue of the neck or the spine.
IT CAN KILL

My instructor always says the best form of self defense is getting behind the chav and then legging it.

I can imagine that boxing would be best if the attacker was facing you, quick punch on the nose etc...

BUT

Which martial art is the most effective if your assailant takes you from behind? I can imagine you would be initially shocked. Would also be difficult to punch an assailant thats not facing you.

I can imagine that boxing would be best if the attacker was facing you, quick punch on the nose etc...

BUT

Which martial art is the most effective if your assailant takes you from behind? I can imagine you would be initially shocked. Would also be difficult to punch an assailant thats not facing you.


This thread is deteriorating:mad:

OK, I guess the thing I was asking, is, should a black belt get threatened, do they say "you may not now this, but, I'm actually a Black belt".... or just sort the threatee out first

End of the thread for me, :loopy:

Any strike can be a major problem but some are far more dangerous than others. This neck lock is about as dangerous as it gets.
Too easy to cause serious damage to the soft tissue of the neck or the spine.
IT CAN KILL

Not sure what lock you're talking about exactly so can't comment (suspect it's what I'd call a guillotine, but can't be sure). I stand by it being pretty damn hard to break bones in a rear choke.

this is a question that used to come up all the time in the Karate in which i train. our instructor is a sergant n the police force and he always told us that by the time you have gotten half way through telling someone that your a black belt you would be on the floor. he always said that as long as you could stand up in court with your hand on your heart and swear that you feared for you saftey then hit them first as it is self defence which is what any martial art is about.

Not sure what lock you're talking about exactly so can't comment (suspect it's what I'd call a guillotine, but can't be sure). I stand by it being pretty damn hard to break bones in a rear choke.

Not sure I want to post too much detail but one hand is behind the head forcing the neck to stretch.

A full or a half nelson then. I don't think you're likely to break anything, but it could kill someone. Especially if they are struggling. The risk of unknown medical complications is way to high to use that anyway.
Wasn't there a bouncer a few years ago who paralysed a woman by using this lock to eject her from a pub?

Yeah, definite difference between chokes and cranks (mostly, some techniques do both I guess).

Serves them right if they pick a fight with you! If you're a black belt, then they've picked on "the wrong one" - havent they?! It might stop them picking fights in future!

Or, as my BF would advise, get the first punch in, then they might not come back for another :hihi:

A full or a half nelson then. I don't think you're likely to break anything, but it could kill someone. Especially if they are struggling. The risk of unknown medical complications is way to high to use that anyway.
Wasn't there a bouncer a few years ago who paralysed a woman by using this lock to eject her from a pub?

No. With the nelson you are still attacking from behind but there is no contact with the windpipe. This hold restricts the trachea and the carotid artery as well as driving the head forwards forcing the spine to stretch.
This hold reders the victim unconscious in less than 30 seconds or can cause death if held for longer but by forcing the head forward the spine will stretch causing the verabrea to separate.
The problem is that if the victim struggles too much you may snap his spine without meaning to and, as I said, that would look a bit rough on your CV.
That's why I would have to suggest it to be a bad idea to use it unless there was no other choice.

You can train for 20 years and not actually grade , so you could be a very accomplished martial artist , but not actually be any belt . There are a hell of a lot of so called black belts walking around that are nowhere near black belt standard . The reason being many clubs now are just a money making scam and belts are dished out like bags of sweets.Unfortunate , but all too true.

You can train for 20 years and not actually grade , so you could be a very accomplished martial artist , but not actually be any belt . There are a hell of a lot of so called black belts walking around that are nowhere near black belt standard . The reason being many clubs now are just a money making scam and belts are dished out like bags of sweets.Unfortunate , but all too true.

How vary true.
I've seen a couple of clubs like that.
We were lucky in that our instuctors were both hard and fair. They gave out belts when the student deserved them and not before.
Training was hard and often painful but the standards in the club were top notch in quality and attitude of the students and the instuctors.

Robbie ..... you really like to fish don't you !!!!:hihi:

How vary true.
I've seen a couple of clubs like that.
We were lucky in that our instuctors were both hard and fair. They gave out belts when the student deserved them and not before.
Training was hard and often painful but the standards in the club were top notch in quality and attitude of the students and the instuctors.

Absolutely. I'm technically a brown belt (1st kyu) in traditional jujitsu, but I wouldn't tell people that, I'd say I train MMA (actually I wouldn't say anything as I'm not good enough!). If it did come down to qualifications I guess I might mention the blue belt in BJJ. Belts should definitely be handed out on performance merit e.g. in BJJ, judo, muay thai, some kickboxing, capoiera and some other systems rather than on time spent at a club.

OK, I guess the thing I was asking, is, should a black belt get threatened, do they say "you may not now this, but, I'm actually a Black belt".... or just sort the threatee out first

Law's the same for everyone, regardless of what fighting abilities they may have. You're not required to tell someone what you can and cannot do. You are required to use as little violence as possible, consistent with neutralizing the threat. In most cases, that would not include putting someone unconscious; in some cases, it'd justify killing him outright. There is no general rule.


In practical terms - as someone said earlier, by the time you're half through telling someone you're a black belt in karate, he might have already but a beer-glass through your cheek. Moreoever, it's highly likely that the assailant will think you're just bluffing, or even may consider it an additional challenge to flatten you in order to prove how good a fighter HE is. You're probably better off not trying to warn them.

Best way is still not to be there.
So some drunk comes up asking if you pinched his pint or looked at his girlfriend. Judge the bloke on what you think he will do next. Most are just wanting to pick a scrap but don't have the rocks to start it or the ability to hit you anyway.
The last drunk that did try it on and came trying to hit me backed off after I punched the air in front of his nose while he was still trying to work out how I blocked a drunken roundhouse punch.
Much easier to not hit someone than to hit them and so much less bother.

he might have already but a beer-glass through your cheek. Moreoever, it's .




A beer glass in my cheek, that would make sitting down painful for a few weeks.:D

Hold your art like a secret weapon
Stand strong and proud in your knowledge!

Avoid trouble, but if there is no avoidance... aim to disable with as little input as possible

.

How vary true.
I've seen a couple of clubs like that.
We were lucky in that our instuctors were both hard and fair. They gave out belts when the student deserved them and not before.
Training was hard and often painful but the standards in the club were top notch in quality and attitude of the students and the instuctors.

Same at my club. Old Barry's a stickler for doing it right, and he's a hard taskmaster, he's been away this past 3 weeks though so his Deputies have took our lessons.

Steve and Carl are tough but they're pussies compared to Mr Nash.

You just have to be careful when you're sparring against big Pete, he's 6'8" and built like a brick sh*thouse... He's a right nice bloke though really :D

just kick his ass