For those of you who don't know, I have a cat and there is nothing more I love than watching him in the garden getting into mischief, sunning himself and playing with frogs. Yes we live on a road and of course their is always the risk of him getting run over / injured or even killed, but I think the freedom he experiences and the joy he takes from this is worth the risk.

However, the other day I went with my partner to a friends house where they have cat thats never stepped one foot outdoors for the 9 years its been alive.

Basically the owner (a middle aged lady) is terrified that it would get run over and killed (she lives near a couple of roads but not massively busy) so she has kept it in doors.

Now I was shocked by this but she was the admament the cat loved staying indoors and was not really bothered about going outside anyway....but if its never been outside then how does it know whats its missing!!!

I'm sure many parents would love to keep their children in cotton wool their whole lives and never let them out, but we know this to be cruel and I think this is the same for a cat.

Cats are made to prowl, to hunt, to search etc and owners who can't deal with possibilty of something bad maybe happening are irresponsible and should not be allowed to own a cat.

What are you opinions on this? Am I wrong?

Yes you are wrong. Years ago people used to just open their doors and let their dogs roam freely, you would never do that these days. I have a cat that has been an indoor cat since her brother got killed on the road outside where we used to live, he was 18 monthes old. I wanted to keep both my cats in, but various people kept telling me it was cruel, cats should go out etc etc (as are your views) so instead of listening to myself I listened to others and boy how I wished I hadn't. I would then still have my beautiful Peanut and Spangle would have her brother. It was devistating when he got run over. As long as you give a cat the stimulation, attention and care it needs then there is no reason what so ever that you cannot keep an indoor cat. Spangle is a very happy, content and spoilt rotton cat, and most of all I know she is safe from harm.

....but if its never been outside then how does it know whats its missing!!!
I think you just answered your question.
If the cat doesn't know what he's missing, he wont miss it.

EDIT: I would personally prefer to allow a cat of mine to go out and play, but I don't think it will harm the cat if it doesn't get out.

Exactly dafoot, they don't miss what they've never had.

Yes you are wrong. Years ago people used to just open their doors and let their dogs roam freely, you would never do that these days. I have a cat that has been an indoor cat since her brother got killed on the road outside where we used to live, he was 18 monthes old. I wanted to keep both my cats in, but various people kept telling me it was cruel, cats should go out etc etc (as are your views) so instead of listening to myself I listened to others and boy how I wished I hadn't. I would then still have my beautiful Peanut and Spangle would have her brother. It was devistating when he got run over. As long as you give a cat the stimulation, attention and care it needs then there is no reason what so ever that you cannot keep an indoor cat. Spangle is a very happy, content and spoilt rotton cat, and most of all I know she is safe from harm.

I am very sorry for your loss but I still think you did the right thing letting them out. It’s a tragedy that you lost Peanut but unfortunately in life terrible things do happen. Cats should have the right to play outdoors - it is not a privilege. Whatever 'stimulation' you are giving your cat will not come even close to the stimulation she would be getting outside, smelling new things, playing/fighting with other cats.

Sadly, you have passed you inability to deal sensibly with Peanuts unfortunate death by incarcerating poor Spangle.

I think you just answered your question.
If the cat doesn't know what he's missing, he wont miss it.

I watch a documentary the other day on the discover channel about a rich sultan who had a pet chimp. Basically, this chimp lived like a king and wanted for nothing.

However, without getting into all here, the basic point of the show was that even though the sultan had the best intentions at heart but at the end of the day, a chimp belongs in his natural environment.

A cat requires the stimulation of the real world. People hide behind the fact they are 'protecting' their cats, but all they are doing is selfishly protecting themselves from getting hurt if anything was to happen with the cat.

I wonder if a cat could speak, what would they tell us. Would they say " Hello Mr Owner, please keeped me cooped up all day in your house and dangle some mouse in front me every now and again" or would it say " Hello Mr Owner, please let me play outside. Yes I know there are a lot of risks out there, but I want to play with my friends, and chase mice and butterflys and have fun! If something terrible does happen then know I was living my life to the full".

Sadly, you have passed you inability to deal sensibly with Peanuts unfortunate death by incarcerating poor Spangle.


A little bit more care in your choice of words please, have a little compassion.

Both of my cats are indoor, I live in a first floor flat so there is noway they can go outside, but even if I lived in a house I would still restrict them to inside and outdoors only if I could make my garden fully cat proof so they couldn't leave it, and even then, they would only go into the garden with my supervision.

I resent the implication that I am subjecting my furries to an unnatural life, and am particularly offended that anyone would suggest I am being actively cruel to my cats by keeping them indoors:o

Ginger is old, 15 or 16, and was rescued by us earlier this year. She was an ourdoor cat before she was adopted by us, but has taken readily to staying inside she loves being around me and my OH and doesn't really do much anyway,:love: so you could argue that it doesn't matter where she is. However, I also have a five month old kitten, April. April has been kept exclusively indoors her whole life. She is shortly to be spayed and chipped, and has had all her jabs. I do not presume there will never come a day when she gets out by accident, or underestimate the importance of spaying and innoculating. However, she is also perfectly happy. She gets plenty of stimulation and believe me, she obviously isn't missing out on anything, her behaviour is entirely normal for a kitten her age (shes a demon:D)

Cats are very adaptable to situations, and April has never shown the slightest interest in going outside. I do admit I would worry terribly about them if they were allowed outside, but I would be willing to feel that way if I truly believed that going outside was best for my cats. But I don't, and lots and lots of cat owners feels exactly the same way. You cannot seriously be suggesting that we are all being purposely, selfishly and horribly cruel to the animals we love so much?

You have your opinion on the subject and I have mine. You don't know me or Spangle so please don't say things like I am incarcerating her. I certainly hope that you never have to find your cat dead on the road outside your house.

So it's not right then to have a rabbit or piggy in a hutch, or a bird or hamster in a cage? The main thing is, at the end of the day that what ever animal you choose to have you look after it. There is a poor cat that lives near us and it is out all the time. In all the rain, thunder and awful weather we've been having he is always outside, he is so affectionate I feel really sorry for him. So owning a cat but chucking it outside for 23 hours a day is OK then is it cos it's out doing what a cat should do?

So owning a cat but chucking it outside for 23 hours a day is OK then is it cos it's out doing what a cat should do?

I really do think that's what some people think:rolleyes:. Yes, some cats are independant, but most love being near their human family.

Jarvis, do you find you are closer to your cat then you would be if they went outside? I really do think me, and Ginge and APril get more out of each other, we spend tons of time together and are therefore really close:love:

I am really sorry about Peanut as well, I'm sure shes waiting for you at rainbow bridge:)

You have your opinion on the subject and I have mine. You don't know me or Spangle so please don't say things like I am incarcerating her. I certainly hope that you never have to find your cat dead on the road outside your house.

So it's not right then to have a rabbit or piggy in a hutch, or a bird or hamster in a cage? The main thing is, at the end of the day that what ever animal you choose to have you look after it. There is a poor cat that lives near us and it is out all the time. In all the rain, thunder and awful weather we've been having he is always outside, he is so affectionate I feel really sorry for him. So owning a cat but chucking it outside for 23 hours a day is OK then is it cos it's out doing what a cat should do?


Point 1

The intelligence of a hamster / rabbit and a cat are worlds apart. A cat requires much more mental stimulation.

Point 2

I have never said that a cat should be left out for 23 hours a day. There needs to be a balance.

I do not presume there will never come a day when she gets out by accident, ?

When I first let my kitten out, we were in constant contact with him. Everytime he was scared he ran straight back to us and has his confidence increased he went further afrield as he felt more comfortable.

I have heard so many stories of house cats that have been 'perfectly happy' indoors and then one day they have managed to sneak outdoors and they have gone into sensory overload and something bad has happened - running straight into the road because they have not learnt about the dangers.

Thanks LitleMermaid. And yes I do find I am very close to Spangle, she loves her cuddles but she also likes what we call her 'me' time when she goes up to sit in the attic where her bed is. I honestly do not think that she is missing out on anything. She also insists on sleeping on me all night every night and has done this since the night Peanut passed away, it was like she knew I needed her.

Honestjoe - I don't know about other animals but I do have two rabbits, which also need a lot of stimulation. But you wouldn't let a rabbit go roaming freely it would never survive in the wild.

We will have to agree to differ on the subject. but please don't make people feel bad because they keep indoor cats.

I wonder is these stories you have heard a are from a friend of a friend of you girfriend's cousin's ex partner's step son? I love my cats and would never do anything which would have a detrimental effect on them. I also really hate arguing, but people will insist on having different opinions to me :hihi:

Seriously, we all try and do whatwe think is best for our animals, and I honestly, hand on heart believe Ginge and April are better off indoors. I don't even have a large house, so, when I am rich enough to afford somewhere bigger, thats an even bigger arguement for them to stay inside. As I said before though, they have both adjusted easily to the space that they have. Don't get me wrong we are not an airing cupboard, but we are a long way from beign a ten bed mansion, let me assure you:D

I I had a cat, which I don't I would most definately have an indoor one.
I am paranoid about my dogs ever getting onto the road so would never rest if it was outside. I think, from things I have read and people I know, indoor cats live an equally happy life to those who are outdoor cats.
As long as you provide enough stimulation there should not be a problem.
Someone has already said, what you don't have, you don't miss.

Thanks LitleMermaid. And yes I do find I am very close to Spangle, she loves her cuddles but she also likes what we call her 'me' time when she goes up to sit in the attic where her bed is. I honestly do not think that she is missing out on anything. She also insists on sleeping on me all night every night and has done this since the night Peanut passed away, it was like she knew I needed her.

Honestjoe - I don't know about other animals but I do have two rabbits, which also need a lot of stimulation. But you wouldn't let a rabbit go roaming freely it would never survive in the wild.

We will have to agree to differ on the subject. but please don't make people feel bad because they keep indoor cats.

God I know what you mean about "me" time, Ginge's fave quite place is under the kitchen cupboard but with April it's the other way round, I'm tearing my hair out for some ME time:lol:

I also hope that noone on here is silly enough to be made to feel bad by these comments, lots of people has questioned why I keep indoor cats. its cooled now but when I first got them I was CONSTANTLY defending myself from so called cruelty allegations:rolleyes:

As April is only a kitten you'll be tearing your hair out for a while yet! I remember Peanut and Spangle from being about 10 monthes old to a year were little terrors!! When I got home was their 'lets wind mum up as much as possible' time and by the time my OH got home they were all sweet and innocent! It's all worth it though, they're such a laugh!

I have also had to defend myself constantly about keeping indoor cats, after Peanut got killed though no one dare say anything about it now.

I just wish there were more responsible owners like yourself Jarvis. Not only does it stop accidents happening to the little kitties but it'd stop them digging up my veggies to relieve themselves under it :hihi:

Thanx baileys_mum

Haha aww bless them, they do your head in don't they? But they are just so funny, I've lost count of how many times she's been winding me up ON PURPOSE:hihi: then she'll do something either so cute or so stupid that I can't help but laugh my head off. At the moment shes laid on her back in her bed with her paws all over and her head at a funny angle:hihi: Decectively cute, thats what I call her.......

She sounds adorable! I love my animals to bits. About 10 times night either me or my OH will say arrrr look at her doesn't she look sweet. She does something that is really funny, every night she comes for what we call 'tummy time'. This consists of her meowing her head off at Richard (my OH) till he gives in and gets down on the floor with her. They then spend half an hour with her rolling over for her tummy tickling but then she gets up and walks off just out of reach and then meows again, so he moves then she moves and so it goes on til he gets fed up!

Animals - love em, would never be without.

Shhhhh don't let Ginge hear you taking about that game, she'd think it was a right laugh:| :lol:

Of course we wouldn't ever be without them, it doesn't bear thinking about...:(

Just indulging myself by giving you a treat here:D
April when she was a baby baby (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n199/darkdisturbed1/?action=view&current=PICT0068.jpg)
Pulling a funny face and looking horribly grown up! (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n199/darkdisturbed1/?action=view&current=ha13.jpg)
Good old Ginge (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n199/darkdisturbed1/?action=view&current=PICT0143.jpg)

I just wish there were more responsible owners like yourself Jarvis. Not only does it stop accidents happening to the little kitties but it'd stop them digging up my veggies to relieve themselves under it :hihi:

Exactly the majority of cat owners dont have a clue where their pets are doing their business
If I let my dog pooh in peoples gardens, I'm sure there would soon be more said,
after all cats carry worms the same as dogs, and worse with cats they bury it
so you have no idea until you dig it up, and so easy for children to get it on their hands,

I'm not saying all cats should be kept in, It is realy lovely for them to have their freedom,
I have two cats both indoor, one who is eighteen now, and at two he got knocked down,
thankfully he survived but previous to him I have lost five cats on the road,
so I said thats it and he was never allowed loose again,
he does have a long piece of lead in the garden, and he is quite happy to wander around his own garden,
I also have a pedigree Ragdoll,
we built her a large run on the garden for her to play in with tree branches and a climbing frame she loves it,
but our older cat just hates it, and much prefers his lead.
Both are very happy and get lots of attention, I would like to hear how the op feels once they have had a cat killed on the road,
or picked one up and had it die in your arms, its not a pretty sight when its been hit by a car,
its devastating believe me, and theres nothing you can do to help and its crying in pain, its something I never want to do again.

Thats why mine are indoor cats.

Arrrr they're both right cuties!

Thanks:) That baby one brings a lump to my throat, I have no idea where there last 3 months have gone! She was like a squashy teddy bear!

Mary - I had the same awful experience, had to pick Peanut up from the side of the road barely breathing then he died in my arms. I know exactly how you feel. I'm filling up now thinking about it and spent a lot of time beating myself up about what happened. If I'd never let him out etc etc.... thats why I wanted to keep my precious Spangle safe and from the night Peanut died she has never gone out again. She has never once gone to door and meowed, when the door is open she never tries to escape so she can't be that bothered. It's each to their own, but it's unfair for someone to call someone else cruel for keeping an indoor cat.

We adopted our cat in February from the Sheffield Cat Shelter and we intended to let the cat go out. However, we live near a busy main road and they said they wouldn't be prepared to let us have an outdoor cat because there was such an increased risk that the cat would be knocked down. They helped us choose an older cat, Granby, who wouldn't be too bothered about going out. At first some people said this was cruel, but he is perfectly happy indoors and all he wants is attention from humans, and he gets plenty of that from me and my boyfriend. Surely in the case of our cat, it was better that he find a home where he is loved, even if he lives indoors, as opposed to being left at the Cat Shelter for a longer period.

Glitter Star you are absolutely right, I bet he can't believe his luck in finding his forever home!

My sister a few years ago, adopted an indoor cat.

this cat had to be an indoor cat, no ifs, no buts. He had "feline aids", and simply could not be permitted to go outside.

so, It's not so simple as "it's cruel to leave a cat out 24/7" or "It's cruel to keep a cat inside 24/7" I think it's totally individual circumstances.

My sister a few years ago, adopted an indoor cat.

this cat had to be an indoor cat, no ifs, no buts. He had "feline aids", and simply could not be permitted to go outside.

so, It's not so simple as "it's cruel to leave a cat out 24/7" or "It's cruel to keep a cat inside 24/7" I think it's totally individual circumstances.

I know someone with a cat with Aids too - he contracted it from fighting. That's just one reason not to let cats out.

In the US indoor cats are the norm, and also in Northern European cities. Thinking it's cruel to keep cats indoors is very, very old-fashioned, stemming from the days when cats were just there as working animals to catch pests. We live different ways now and cats benefit immensely from being indoors. It would be unfair to have more than a few in an average house of course, but their lives are transformed by being inside. Most of my neighbours take that choice now - the roads are too busy and there are far too many psychos out there who would think nothing of torturing or killing a fragile little cat.

My cats are officially 'senior' now but are still as hale as kittens and have beautiful coats. They have never had fleas or worms in their whole lives. They don't poo in other people's gardens. They get tons of love.

Cats are very different to dogs - I believe dogs need to be walked to burn off energy as they are not so good at entertaining themselves. Cats on the other hand are very independent - I often watch mine engaging in a game between themselves before going back to sleep, all warm and safe on my comfy bed ;)

Our cat is an indoor cat, as he is deaf and wouldn't be able fend for himself properly outside. He is unable to hear any other cats/dogs/cars etc so wouldn't be able to protect himself.

A friend of mine who moved over here from the US brought her declawed cat, Clio, with her. Clio was kept exclusively indoors as she had no claws to protect herself, and she was the most sweet-tempered cat I've ever come across. She never wanted to go outside.

On the other hand, my cat, Dorrie, has been going outside since around a month after she was spayed. At first I was terrified she'd get hurt, but now she's really independent, in and out all hours during the week, and mostly inside with me at the weekends. If I keep her inside she goes crazy with boredom and won't stop complaining.

If you have the time to provide enough stimulus for a cat, keeping them indoors isn't necessarily a bad thing. But if the cat is cooped up all day with no attention or company or excitement, it's not much of a life for them.

My two previous cats went out - Smudge a beautiful black persian got run over on the road and died in the arms of a woman at Thornberry animal sanctuary. Nikki went missing late last year and has never been found :( She was 21.

When I got Basil and Ted I did lots of reading to see how cruel it was to keep cats in. Cats are very territorial and it just means they have a slightly smaller territory. They both have their me places - Basil sits on one of the dining table seats for a few hours each morning. Ted has a tent which she has exclusive rights over. When it is sunny i take them out in the garden with me and it would be my next priority to a new house... could i cat proof the garden - impossible with my current one as my neighbours need access through it.
As long as they have other cat company, i think it's fine.

i have an indoor cat she is nearly a year old and she is fine i wont let her out because i have had 3 other cats that have been killed on a road

I have two cats, both of which reside indoors. The oldest one is 3 in August, and has occassionally sat on the door step. She is spayed and has no intention of going out to play. She loves nothing better than to curl up on the chair and snooze her day away, whilst we return home, then its playtime!
The younger cat, who is three next February, isn't spayed, and until recently has been quite content indoors. Listening to the cats fighting in the early hours of this morning, has reinforced my desire to keep them in!!

Jayne

I have had two cats run over and killed in the last couple of years but I still let the three I have now out if they want to go out. It is my understanding that some cats chose to be house cats but for those who want to go out I think the enjoyment they get from that has to outweigh my grief if they do get run over.

I can’t really agree with the view that “what they have never had they don’t miss” because I once saw a documentary on laboratory animals and cats raised in laboratories visibly were trying to catch birds or mice in their sleep, whilst dreaming. Clearly the instinct to do such things is embedded in their minds, by whatever mechanism.

The other point is that, even though you might feel a bit silly at first doing it, there is the compromise option of taking your cat out on a lead – I saw a couple doing that the other night.

[QUOTE=honestjoe69;2472878]Point 1

The intelligence of a hamster / rabbit and a cat are worlds apart. A cat requires much more mental stimulation.[QUOTE]


:hihi::hihi:So says someone who has never had a sufficiently stimulated pet rabbit :roll:

I have two house cats, they have always been house cats. They have each other, us, the dog and millions of bunnies for company and as far as I can see they want for nothing, the rule the roost!.....we even asked our vets advice before making the decision and he told us it was 'sensible'. They had 3 RTA's in that day :(

The other point is that, even though you might feel a bit silly at first doing it, there is the compromise option of taking your cat out on a lead – I saw a couple doing that the other night.

I take mine out on leads to (altho not on a busy street as they are to scared) but they have been to the seaside played in the sand eaten icecreams and candy floss while walking round skeggy. The worst bit is the other people all wanting to stop and stroke it takes for ever to get anywhere.

Mine are indoor cats too theres 6 of them so they dont get bored, also a daft rotty that loves playing, and an akita they they love tormenting cos shes grumpy. They dont look in the slightest bit bored or fed up or cruely treated. Some people have mentioned they find themselves defending their decisions to keep indoor cats I certainly wont, i live on a busy road, theres always gangs of dubious looking charecters about from a reabilitation hostel down the road too, I refuse point blank to put my cats in ANY danger.

I have had outdoor cats in the past and have lost all of them one way or another, I cannot see any diference in how they behave they all looked equally happy whether indoors or outdoor cats, so i see no harm whatso ever in keeping them all safe.

I take mine out on leads to (altho not on a busy street as they are to scared) but they have been to the seaside played in the sand eaten icecreams and candy floss while walking round skeggy. The worst bit is the other people all wanting to stop and stroke it takes for ever to get anywhere.



Now that is CUTE !!!!

I have 3 cats, who have free access to the outdoors through cat flaps. They spend at least 99% of their time in the house. One doesn't go out at all, one very rarely and the third for an hour or so each day.

As reguarly reported on Alfie's blog, all our gang are indoor (pedigrees so part of the contract + one moggie who is afraid of the great outdoorsand one rescue cat who was an indoor cat also). and with the right stimulation , lots of activitiesa lots of fuss from the owners and plenty of space, they are quite content.

I don't see a problem with cats been indoors. I had 2 indoor cats for around 9 month but had to give them up not so long ago. I'm lead to believe that they've now become outdoor cats now.

I had never heard of 'indoor cats' before I came to Sheffield...

our cats have always gone outside, the one we have now at one point i would chuck outside because it wouldn't go on it's own accord ( i think it was the runt of the litter). now it goes out daily and only recently caugth it's first bird.
it's started to come out of it's shell more and no longer is as timid as before.

one of my mates mum bought a kitten and kept it indoors, as soon as it became a cat it was pretty much thrwon out, which i think is cruel, but its still got food and whenever you see it, it always looks happy. occassionally you see it jumping from tree to tree.

the best cat i had, used to go out for days at a time, but as it aged it began to stay in more.

maybe if you have indoor cats you should have a few so they can keep each other company.

has anybody got a fat outdoor cat?

Re: indoor cats being fat- our indoor cats get plenty of exercise and nutritious food so they arent fat-except our old moggie Minty, who was always pretty sedentary and would never go outside on her own anyway (she was born in a cupboard and was the only kitten, never properly socialised and a big scaredy cat).

I think running up n down 3 flights of stairs all the time and tearing around the house like whirling dervishes for that mad half hour everyday seems to keep them fit.

Wish I could say the same for what it does to us humans, carting cat litter, food and cat paraphenalia up n down...

Every other cat Ive owned was allowed out, but when youve lost cats to the roads, evil sickos dogs and the like, you can see why we wouldnt want them to go out unescorted now.

They go out with us in the back garden on sunny days- [ha! not been a lot of those recently, has there?]

I am very sorry for your loss but I still think you did the right thing letting them out. It’s a tragedy that you lost Peanut but unfortunately in life terrible things do happen. Cats should have the right to play outdoors - it is not a privilege. Whatever 'stimulation' you are giving your cat will not come even close to the stimulation she would be getting outside, smelling new things, playing/fighting with other cats.

Sadly, you have passed you inability to deal sensibly with Peanuts unfortunate death by incarcerating poor Spangle.

Hmmm.......We currently have two cats. The male is in and out, the female is something of a homebody. She occasionally pops her head out if we leave the back or front door open, but she's in again quite quickly.

She's healthy, happy, intelligent and from what I know of cats having had various ones for nigh on 20 years very content.

Some cats just like being indoors. She's a little prone to weight gain, so we have to watch her diet, but she is perfectly well adjusted to teh various housemates she's had.

Your comments about a user being unable to cope with the death of a pet and their 'incarcerating' their present one is a little insensitive.

I had never heard of 'indoor cats' before I came to Sheffield...

Quite common in many large cities; you can even buy boxes of grass and various plants for them to nibble at indoors.

Apart from the weight problem, the other thing to watch is their claws - they can get a bit long unless they have a scratching post or they can get on to a hard surface to wear them down a little.

our cats have always gone outside, the one we have now at one point i would chuck outside because it wouldn't go on it's own accord ( i think it was the runt of the litter). now it goes out daily and only recently caugth it's first bird.
it's started to come out of it's shell more and no longer is as timid as before.

one of my mates mum bought a kitten and kept it indoors, as soon as it became a cat it was pretty much thrwon out, which i think is cruel, but its still got food and whenever you see it, it always looks happy. occassionally you see it jumping from tree to tree.

the best cat i had, used to go out for days at a time, but as it aged it began to stay in more.

maybe if you have indoor cats you should have a few so they can keep each other company.

has anybody got a fat outdoor cat?

Well done then for catching its first bird!
Thats a real good reason for chucking it outside,
I've got two very healthy not fat very content indoor cats.
That dont need to catch birds for entertainment.

"pedigrees so part of the contract " :?

I have a very fat cat who does go outdoors but she tends to trundle about rather than break into a run!

1 of my cats Salem is a fatty but that happened after he had the snip, the 2 boy kittens are 6 months old on the 8th august and are booked in for their bits doin next tuesday so im wondering if they will turn into little fatties too. :confused:

A couple of neighbours of mine have slim neutered male cats, so I think your tom becoming fat after the snip is more of a coincidence than anything else.

Having indoor cats keeping each other company is all very well if they get on. But one of my cats bullies and attacks another, and the bullied one wouldn't want to be trapped in the house all day. She often waits outside in the mornings until I get up so that she can have her breakfast under "safe conduct" with me there.

The answer to any question involving what is the right or wrong way to treat an animals lies in it's evolution. All animals have high evolutionary drives that mean they must be able to carry out certain behaviours. For example cats need a very varied diet, they need to perform hunting behaviours, must socialise with other cats (highly social species), they have patrol routes that must be monitored each day and will avoid rather than confront a fearful situation if at all possible (this is why a cat may spend much of it's time alone in the spare room).

Ideally speaking then cats should be able to patrol outside freely in order to fulfill their behavioural needs. However, the problem of safety is always a difficult one and no-one wants to put their cat in danger. There is plenty that can be done, for example, patrol routs can be set up in the house along with other additions to better fulfill the cat's needs. Alternatively, the cat can be trained (cats learn very quickly when trained positively) to use a patrol route that does not involve roads ie around the garden or out of the back door.

There are qualified feline behaviourists that can help you devise a plan for a cat and owner, they work under veterinary referal. PM me if you'd like more info.

I have had four cats killed on the road, never again
with each of them I always let them out the front door
because the back garden lead to a main road, and never let them on the back garden
always the front, the front was safer nice quiet road hardly any cars
but obviously not as interesting,
because as soon as they could they were off down somebodys elses garden
and accross the main road which lead to fields full of mice and rabbits.
Until finally crossing the road they were knocked down.

Like I said tried this with four cats, constantly trying to establish a "patrol route"
What they learned very quickly was as soon as I wasn't there they could go off to the fields

I think you can only train cats to do what they want to do.

So now I have indoor cats,
they are safe happy and have lots of attention and stimulation
and a nice large cage on the garden they go in sometimes,

Me too Mary Poppins- much as it sounds a good idea to let them free-roam, I am afraid there are just too many accidents waiting to happen- too many cars, too many kids and youths who think it's fun to torture a cat, too many dogs, too many other cellars and garden stores for a curious cat to get trapped in- had it all happen to mine at some point - oh and cat napping. Being pedigrees, my lot are not going out unaccompanied.

They get to hunt, climb and play on 4 storeys in our house- the attic is their own den and they can come outside with us any time- they have picked up that they cannot go down the passage and onto the front of the house and are content to stay in our garden and next door's, chasing bugs and flies, chewing the grass and plants and generally catching some rays.

'Patrol' routes are all very well but anywhere around us they wouldcome into contact with all of the hazards Ive just listed. Not a risk I am willing to take- besides which, my contracts with their breeders stipulate they must not be allowed to free roam for their own safety.

A cat on my road was hiding in a skip this week and the builders, not realising it was there dropped a huge concrete block on him :( There are so many hazards you can never cover all the bases.

A cat on my road was hiding in a skip this week and the builders, not realising it was there dropped a huge concrete block on him :( There are so many hazards you can never cover all the bases.

That has really upset me. I agree with Mary P. As great as it would be to establish safe patrol routes for my own cat, we don't live in an ideal world. There are unforseen problems and plenty of people who will be cruel to animals, especially cats as they are so small and vulnerable.

A friend of mine in Wakefield told me that recently black cats in the neighbour disappeared. It seemed odd at first but wasn't purely coincidental - people had been stealing the black cats for their fur.

When I hear such stories I know that my cat is best off indoors. Thankfully my cat is older and isn't bothered about going outdoors. It would be a harder decision with a younger cat, so I've always vowed to get older cats from the Cat Shelter which are perfectly happy to spend life indoors.

Well done then for catching its first bird!
Thats a real good reason for chucking it outside,
I've got two very healthy not fat very content indoor cats.
That dont need to catch birds for entertainment.

thing is though, it doesen't need to catch a bird for entertainment, it did it because it wanted too. it gets plenty of attention and is free to do pretty much as it pleases.

i have a very large and very active male cat(i have been told he's a maine coon but i rescued him and have no papers) he never went out before i got him at about the age of 4-5 then i got him a female friend and she lead him outdoors, he never went far and the one time he did got lost and ended up having to pick him up from a shelter,

now he has the choice we leave the door ope for him for hours and he never goes further than our little garden and its never for more than 10 mins, some cats just like being inside i guess,
as all cat owners know they all have their own personality, and should be treated differently, my female currently never goes indoors but chooses to live in the gardens on my street helping us with the mouse problem.

this is the same as a rock climber telling an office worker they arent a proper human cos they spend 40 hours a week locked inside, come on people everyones an individual, just get to know your cat and cater for them individually.

Hi all,

Not quite linked to the title, but I'm just looking for advice as I am quite concerned about my cat now.

I lived at Aston for the past few years, and took in/tamed a feral cat. It took over a year, but after that she was soft as a brush, but liked to spend alot of time outside/never needed a litter tray etc
Last weekend, I had to move to Doncaster, and have brought the cat with me (I could have left her with the ex partner, but I know my job is going to keep me in one place, whereas his probably wont)
Anyway..
How long should I keep her inside? She keeps doing this awful meow, and I know she wants to go outside/isnt happy on using the litter tray (although does)
she seems to be spending all of her time sat on my bed, and just seems to get up to eat.
It isnt like her, and I know the move will have been stressful.
Its a completely different area (to Aston) and there seems to be quite a few cats around the street. I'm now feeling really guilty for bringing her with me, but I just couldnt leave her, as I know long term aside from the fact I want her, she'll always have a home with me

I've always kept mine in a few weeks if possible. I last moved 11 years ago and at that time I had a 'normal' cat and a house cat. It was impossible to keep the normal cat for more than a day as he used to dart for the door to go out. I used to make sure he wasn't hungry when he went out so he wouldn't eat elsewhere. I also used to shake a packet of his biscuits to get him back in.

Hi all,

Not quite linked to the title, but I'm just looking for advice as I am quite concerned about my cat now.

I lived at Aston for the past few years, and took in/tamed a feral cat. It took over a year, but after that she was soft as a brush, but liked to spend alot of time outside/never needed a litter tray etc
Last weekend, I had to move to Doncaster, and have brought the cat with me (I could have left her with the ex partner, but I know my job is going to keep me in one place, whereas his probably wont)
Anyway..
How long should I keep her inside? She keeps doing this awful meow, and I know she wants to go outside/isnt happy on using the litter tray (although does)
she seems to be spending all of her time sat on my bed, and just seems to get up to eat.
It isnt like her, and I know the move will have been stressful.
Its a completely different area (to Aston) and there seems to be quite a few cats around the street. I'm now feeling really guilty for bringing her with me, but I just couldnt leave her, as I know long term aside from the fact I want her, she'll always have a home with me

I would keep the cat i n for at least 2/3 weeks, and then only let her out with you in attendance initially. As Chez said, good idea to only let her out to start with when you know she's hungry, so hopefully she won't go far.

Thats what bothers me.Because she was wild before, at times shes turned her nose up at whiskers/cooked lamb/fish etc, and will go out and find herself a mouse (or rabbit on occassion!!)
Thats what bothers me- do cats try and find their way home? I know she cant (from doncaster to aston) but its like now, I'm back from work downstairs, and shes seemingly still sulking on her own upstairs. I feel awful. Tried bribery with her treats, bought her a new bed etc, and I got her best glare when I fed her. cats!

I used to think it was cruel to keep a cat indoors(and to a certain extent I still do), but I have had 3 cats hit by cars in 12 years now (2 of them died, the other cost £500 to repair). My existing 2 cats love being outside, and I could not now keep them in as they are too used to going out. I do think that if I get any more cats from kittens I would keep them in though. My last baby was 11 months old and died outside my house at 2am. I only let her out when there was hardly any traffic on the road, she only ever went out for 10 mins at a time and never went off our quiet street. I had taken her out on a harness for months, then let her out but kept a watch on her for months. I thought I had done everything possible to try to keep her safe and teach her some safety awareness, but she still died on the road. It broke my heart and I really dont think I could go through that again :(

Thats what bothers me.Because she was wild before, at times shes turned her nose up at whiskers/cooked lamb/fish etc, and will go out and find herself a mouse (or rabbit on occassion!!)
Thats what bothers me- do cats try and find their way home? I know she cant (from doncaster to aston) but its like now, I'm back from work downstairs, and shes seemingly still sulking on her own upstairs. I feel awful. Tried bribery with her treats, bought her a new bed etc, and I got her best glare when I fed her. cats!

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. The minute she's allowed out she will forget the last few weeks. I was advised to try rescue remedy with a stray I had to keep in recently and it worked a treat. Put 2-3 drops in some cat milk or on her favourite treats 3 times a day. Failing that rub it behind her ears or put a few drop on her nose. It will absorb through the skin or she will lick it off

Thats what bothers me Smudge- I lived near you- just round the corner from aston hall/the woods which is really quiet/loads of feral cats.
But here, the main road isnt on the door step, but theres a rail line (not a main one) about 4 hourse rows behind.
I cant help but worry that I've done the right thing
I just couldnt bare for, for example my ex partner to keep her then in 6 months he has to go on a placement out of sheffield, which could happen.
I've moved with the cat in mind- it'd be cheaper for me to get small flat on my own, but I've got a house with her in mind.
Its just all the other cats in the area/ what I can do to make her feel less stressed in the house. the meow she keeps doing is pitiful, and its as though she's deliberately sulking with me.
I've got her toys, but shes never been that bothered
Any ideas on how to keep her occupied? I do work during in the day (always have- but she'd tire herself out being outside.) she just seems to sleep/scowl on my bed at the moment, and I dont know if its normal. It'll be a week saturday that we moved in

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. The minute she's allowed out she will forget the last few weeks. I was advised to try rescue remedy

I wouldnt have thought of that- thankyou, I'll see if I can pick some up tomorrow. she just seems- restless constantly. I will be trying to sleep at night, and she'll just walk on me
I never had her upstairs/in my room before, but feel too guilty leaving her on her own, when she seems to hate being downstairs
I've steam cleaned all the floors etc, to eliminate any possible smells that might have been there before

You have your opinion on the subject and I have mine. You don't know me or Spangle so please don't say things like I am incarcerating her. I certainly hope that you never have to find your cat dead on the road outside your house.

So it's not right then to have a rabbit or piggy in a hutch, or a bird or hamster in a cage? The main thing is, at the end of the day that what ever animal you choose to have you look after it. There is a poor cat that lives near us and it is out all the time. In all the rain, thunder and awful weather we've been having he is always outside, he is so affectionate I feel really sorry for him. So owning a cat but chucking it outside for 23 hours a day is OK then is it cos it's out doing what a cat should do?

this person was asking for advice so if u dont like thing that people say dont comment cause by looks of it your getting all defensive

When cats are stressed they can get cystitis. We nearly had our cat pts when we moved, she was 16 at the time and took it really badly. She was lethargic, wouldn't eat or drink, just slept all day and didn't respond to anything. The vet said it was her kidneys and said she didn't have long left. Fortunately we saw a different vet a few days later who knew it was cystitis and she was fine a week later after treatment and plenty of TLC. If i were you I would ignore her for a few days, give her somewhere warm and dark to hide and try not to worry. If she gets any worse get her checked out, and try the rescue remedy. Catnip is good too.

Cats can get more stressed the more attention we give them, so ignoring her may sound harsh, but is probably the best thing for her in the short term. Obviously she still needs the odd re-assuring hug, but dont overdo it. Most of all just remember that you are doing what is best for her, and try not to give yourself a hard time. Once she can go out again I'm sure all will be forgotten, and she sounds like a savvy cat, so I wouldn't worry too much about the railway

P.S - it is perfectly normal behaviour for a cat to sulk when it doesn't get it's own way. They certainly know how to throw a strop!!

My cat, another week later is calming down a little bit. In a morning, she'll come downstairs with me/fuss round me before work/greets me when I get home.
And she'll come up to my room at night
Its not been helped this week because due to a burst pipe in the bathroom ive had people in and out 2 days sorting that.
the some muppets were setting bangers off over the road last night
I've debated getting another young cat, to keep her company? Is this a good idea? Im worried as she's about 3.5 now/very timid with anyone other than me/my ex partner- I dont know how she'd take a new cat. My logic was this is still a new house to her (only 2 week)
I debated risking letting her out tomorrow, but I dont know if I dare..

I'd keep her in for at least another week hun, better to be safe than sorry and if she's settling down I wouldn't rush it (you'd feel awful if she didn't return) I wouldn't introduce another cat yet. Cat introductions are very stressful for all cats concerned. I'm sure it'll be fine in a few months, but I'd let her get used to the house first, then introduce a new friend when she's settled. If you introduce one now you may risk her not returning as she may not consider it home yet. It'll all work out, don't worry - you're doing a fab job for the little one :)

thanks Smudge, I just didnt know what to do for the best. I feel s guilty being a work, when even in Aston me and the ex were at work- but she tended to go out at night and sleep through the day. she just tends to sleep/scowl alot. although, her naughty character is coming out- she knows shes not supposed to be in my drawers..and slinked out when I came upstairs..daft things where i know her character is coming back.
her toys were scattered on the floor the other morning, so I knew she'd been up in the night.
Im going to keep her in this week- you're right- I'd be devestated if she didnt come back. I know its taking time to get used to it just being me and her.
Bribing her with fish and pork chops just as a treat some days because the sulking look she gives me at times is awful
thanks again :)

My older cat used to go out at my other house then i moved into a flat on deerlands omg a racetrack,she was kept in for 4 years till i moved into a house,i was so unsure so kept her in for a long time,one day i left the door open and she came out and was terrified she really seemed to have forgotten what the great outdoors was.
I got a kitten 2 years ago and decided to keep her in if she was happy,she never cries at the door,never attempts to go out and neither does Jess,they are both well adjusted happy girls and im happy knowing they wont get run over,or stolen.I think if my young one had cried and been unhappy i wouldnt have had a choice but she really dosent know any difference.I think its the owner and cat that decide if they are happy indoors.

For those of you who don't know, I have a cat and there is nothing more I love than watching him in the garden getting into mischief, sunning himself and playing with frogs. Yes we live on a road and of course their is always the risk of him getting run over / injured or even killed, but I think the freedom he experiences and the joy he takes from this is worth the risk.

However, the other day I went with my partner to a friends house where they have cat thats never stepped one foot outdoors for the 9 years its been alive.

Basically the owner (a middle aged lady) is terrified that it would get run over and killed (she lives near a couple of roads but not massively busy) so she has kept it in doors.

Now I was shocked by this but she was the admament the cat loved staying indoors and was not really bothered about going outside anyway....but if its never been outside then how does it know whats its missing!!!

I'm sure many parents would love to keep their children in cotton wool their whole lives and never let them out, but we know this to be cruel and I think this is the same for a cat.

Cats are made to prowl, to hunt, to search etc and owners who can't deal with possibilty of something bad maybe happening are irresponsible and should not be allowed to own a cat.

What are you opinions on this? Am I wrong?


Let them out.....

Well, its 3 weeks today that I moved into the house.
Tonight, socks is meowing constantly at the back door. (3 times i've picked her up and walked her round the back)
she's now not moving from the back door
Her meows are heartbreaking, but I'm so scared to open the door incase she doesnt come back..
will tomorrow be too soon? should i get some sort of lead first? she was initially a wild cat as I said.. but this is a long way from 'home'.
Feeling right stressed tonight. Smudge?

I think after 3 weeks she will come back, but I understand how stressful it is. She will probably be quite wary at first and hopefully not go too far to start off with. Has she got a collar and tag on or is she chipped? And if so have you remembered to change the chip details?

Cats aren't daft, they know where they are well looked after and loved.

I would wait until morning and then let her out. Too many exciting smells at night time (all the little animals are out) and she could get excited and wander too far without realising it. At least in the day there is less to distract her, there's more noise (so she may stay nearer to home as a result of being more timid) and you/cars etc can see her better. Hopefully she'll be back for tea before it gets dark

I have tried a harness with mine in the past too, just for a couple of days until they get used to the area. They hate it at first though

thankyou :) I wasnt going to let her out tonight, she had a good wriggle when I picked her up, and I've had to shut the living room door, because her meows are just awful. I know shes dying to be out, and I'm trying to trust she loves sitting on my bed/hates getting rained on/loves certain food so she'll come back. its just the area.. its just not what she had.
Feel so guilty for that, but hopefully just the fresh air will help. shes put on a bit of weight the last 3 weeks. shes normally a skinny cat- she doesnt stop usually, although eats loads. whereas the last 3 weeks shes basically ate and slept.
yeah she has her coller/tag etc. She isnt chipped, for the fact the 2 times shes been to the vets (for fighting..) shes been really stressed and traumatised by it. But its something I want to do. theres a vets about 4 house rows from me- I intend to. just because I dont know the area well either.
thanks Smudge :) again

Well, its 3 weeks today that I moved into the house.
Tonight, socks is meowing constantly at the back door. (3 times i've picked her up and walked her round the back)
she's now not moving from the back door
Her meows are heartbreaking, but I'm so scared to open the door incase she doesnt come back..
will tomorrow be too soon? should i get some sort of lead first? she was initially a wild cat as I said.. but this is a long way from 'home'.
Feeling right stressed tonight. Smudge?


Maybe 'Socks' just want's to get away from you for a bit.

thanks Smudge :) again

No problem, she'll be back I'm sure

Maybe 'Socks' just want's to get away from you for a bit.

Your experiences of life don't necessarily mirror everyone elses!

:roll: You know whats right and whats wrong so why are you asking the person you are on about should be prosecuted for cruelty. Some people pay a lot of money for cats and dont let them out because they think someone will steal them . One years freedom is worth 10 in prison. A cat is a very independant animal and loves its freedom :love:

Maybe 'Socks' just want's to get away from you for a bit.

:rolleyes: expected no less.

No problem, she'll be back I'm sure


!
hope so, will let you know how it goes
I hope she does as it means next week, I can leave her out in the day when im at work- she normally prefers it, roaming about, chasing leaves/mice/generally stalking/sunbathing. shes literally climing the walls (or door earlier, literally!!) to be out
debating the wives tail of putting butter on her feet!

Hiya guys, currently have 2 kittens who are 8 months old and wanting to let them outside as the keep scratching the windows to go out, ive noticed a few other cats in the area, weve put mesh wiring to to keep them in our garden as such but they still find a way to get out, any ideas/help?

I haven't got time to read through the thread so this may have been mentioned already. What about building a wire run filled with cut tree branches so the cats can climb sharpen claws and run about in the sun? We used to have a run like this attached to a shed for our cats.

Hiya guys, currently have 2 kittens who are 8 months old and wanting to let them outside as the keep scratching the windows to go out, ive noticed a few other cats in the area, weve put mesh wiring to to keep them in our garden as such but they still find a way to get out, any ideas/help?

Hi let the them out asp. As for wire netting etc waste of time you cant keep cats off your garden only your own cats will do this they are teretoral and have there own area. Not take then long to let the other cats know its their teritory. If you live on a main road traffic can be a danger. We have had cats for 20 years and live on an estate and never had one run over. Make sure they have a cat flap so they can come and go as they please . You will find out they will be always hanging around their own teritory anyway. Good luck and give them the natural life they deserve :)

Hiya guys, currently have 2 kittens who are 8 months old and wanting to let them outside as the keep scratching the windows to go out, ive noticed a few other cats in the area, weve put mesh wiring to to keep them in our garden as such but they still find a way to get out, any ideas/help?

Are they neutered?

If not, ignore the comments from spider1 above, and DON'T let them out, whatever you do, until they have been "done", at least.

Are they neutered?

If not, ignore the comments from spider1 above, and DON'T let them out, whatever you do, until they have been "done", at least.

Hi PT, yes both neutered. Its just with their constant meowing I was wundering if its unfair to keep them in..

If the cat is going to be kept indoors, it really needs as much stimulation as possible.

Cats are outdoor animals, they love being outside. If I tried to keep my cat inside it would kill him, but each to their own I guess!!

I have 2 big cats that go outside and 3 kitten sized cats that stay in. They are very dog friendly which with having nasty dogs around me isnt a good idea. Also they all have some sort of problem, one is part blind and part death, the other the same but very sickly and the 3rd is sickly and hard of hearing. This the Vet said was down to there mum being fed on anti-freeze. My so loving neighbour called the RSPCA on me saying I was miss treating them by keeping them in. The RPCA women said it was up to me and went away happy. Im getting the kittens a cat run for the garden later this year. Do people think im wrong to have them inside?

I have 2 big cats that go outside and 3 kitten sized cats that stay in. They are very dog friendly which with having nasty dogs around me isnt a good idea. Also they all have some sort of problem, one is part blind and part death, the other the same but very sickly and the 3rd is sickly and hard of hearing. This the Vet said was down to there mum being fed on anti-freeze. My so loving neighbour called the RSPCA on me saying I was miss treating them by keeping them in. The RPCA women said it was up to me and went away happy. Im getting the kittens a cat run for the garden later this year. Do people think im wrong to have them inside?

Absolutely agree with you: Ive had a cat ripped apart by a dog, lost them to traffic, air guns, theft, torture (hanged by some sicko kids), badly injured, you name it. They deserve better and I'm giving them a greater chance of reaching old age by keeping them close to home.

My housecats have plenty to keep them stimulated without the need to venture outside (but if they really want to, they can -supervised- go in ours and our neighbour's adjoining back gardens, which have lots of cat- friendly plants and perches).
If we had a private rear garden we would definitely build an outdoor run but there's a right of way immediately outside our backdoor, which is a pity. Other than that, it is contained and we can safely allow our cats outside when we are with them (the doberbeast makes sure the dont wander too far)

They have four floors to explore indoors and most of the time, you would think we didnt own a cat because they are either tucked away in a cosy cupboard, snoozing under a bed or perched high up surveying the landscape. If there a plenty of feeding areas, litter trays and places to doze, there's no reason for them to be on top of one another, unless they really want to be (our Norwegian Forest Cats are incredibly social and tend to stick together).

We only have one bully -Alfie the barmy bengal but bullying is typical of the breed and if he has an outlet for all that energy, he can be just as chilled as the rest. (he loves walking on my treadmill and if I can find a cheaper supplier, Id like to get him an exercise wheel, bengals love using them!)

There are some clever interactive toys and feeders which are great for keeping cats entertained and for making sure they dont overeat. Also, weve rigged up cat shelves and sisal-covered ladders and scratching posts they love to shimmy up: the heavy duty cardboard tubes you get inside rolled up rugs and carpets is ideal for stapling old carpet or seagrass matting to. Weve made a 6ft pole fastened partway up a wall in our attic so the more energetic mogs can stand up to scratch or climb it.

... And our stair carpet manages to survive the daily onslaught of furry paws and claws

On the back of this, we have been letting them out to get fesh air and theyve been playing up a tree and loving it, although their is a big black cat in the area who like to try and attack our 8 month olds. Stupid question but how do i deter this black cat?, we have already put mesh wiring all round our garden..

after having a cat that was a outdoor cat and seeing him get run over i vowed to never have another cat that would be a outdoor cat....but i didnt want to keep a healthy cat indoors.....so my lovely friend who is a vet nurse called me up 6 months ago saying she had a little kitten no more than 10 week old that had been found running around the streets...this kitten was completely blind and wouldnt ever stand a chance of getting a new home with all the cute sighted kittens looking for new homes......so muggins here told her to bring the kitten to me...and well i have never know such a loving confident comical cat ever..if you didnt know she was blind you wouldnt be able to tell the way she bombs it round the house jumping on all the furniture..at first she bumped into things but now she is like a tornado round the house...playing chase and playfights with the dog....obviously she can never be let out as she has no sight at all and i must say she seems more than happy.....she had to have one of her eyes out but the one that is left is totally useless but to me she is soooo cute and it adds to her personality. she uses the litter tray every time no probs and has recently caught a moth that had been flying round the house....i was amazed !!
meet BlunKIT....
http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc353/sazzlebrin/IMAG0007.jpg
sazzle x

Aww bless her, she's really landed on her paws with you sazzlebrin

One of our rescues was a sickly five week old feral with an ulcerated eye, bleeding gums and weak limbs. She was riddled with cat flu and it was touch and go at first. It took months for her to be up to playing and rushing about like a norml cat and she was back and forth to the vets for painkilling shots to ease her aching bones and teeth. She is undersized and has limited vision in one eye and she would not be safe outside. If she hadnt been found when she was, she wouldnt be alive now (she came from a part of S4 where dog baiting with cats is rife and was found next to a busy bus route).