As a lifetime smoker - - about 50 years worth.
The latest message from the Government about smuggled cigarettes fills me with mild cyniscism (No-spell checker).
Are they concerned about my health? or the amount of extortionate tax they are missing out on?
More tar and nicotine content is because they are stronger. Believe me, buying popular brands in different countries, just read the label. Most foreign cigarettes are stronger than British.
South Africa for instance a well known brand beginning with an"R" were three times the tar and nicotine content than the same brand here. And - - of course, they cost £1.00 per pack of twenty-five.

I just saw this on the Sky News web-site and was a bit miffed too hehe. I think their grounds were that the cigarette's being imported are fake thus not complying with UK nicotine/tar levels. I'm not sure what to think really, If I get some fake fags that taste bad then I'll not smoke them again. Untill then whats cheaper is better imo.

I heard on the radio this morning that there are fags being smuggled into the UK which are packed with sawdust and lead. Dunno if this is the same story as above tho - sounds to be getting like chinese whispers to me.

By next week they will be exploding cigarettes, and by next month, they'll give you cancer :loopy: :suspect:

I was a little cynical when I heard it.

But, having heard an interview with one of the scientific guys who is involved in the testing seems quite genuine that there are much higher levels of certain carcinogens (mostly heavy metals was what they tested for and levels are generally 5 times higher)

And also, it is right that the government should get a shed load of tax from people foolish enough to smoke, because it is a huge drain on the NHS.

arsenic, cadmium and lead in high concentrations.

But go right ahead, have your cheap cigarettes. Just die quietly somewhere afterwards please.

Originally posted by Cyclone
arsenic, cadmium and lead in high concentrations.

But go right ahead, have your cheap cigarettes. Just die quietly somewhere afterwards please.
Merry Christmas to you also sick-loon

Sheffco.

They dont sell fags in packs of 25 in south africa they are in 20s or 30s, but right yeah they are a quid (ish)

Originally posted by venger
Merry Christmas to you also sick-loon

I was just pointing out that this wasn't as seemed to be suggested a cynical ploy to convince you to buy taxed cigarettes, it was in fact a genuine health risk. If you're stupid enough to ignore it and buy counterfit cigarettes then you deserve what you get.

And my point was that they wont die somewhere quietly, they'll die noisily and horribly in an NHS bed that someone with some sense could have had.

Originally posted by Yodameister
And my point was that they wont die somewhere quietly, they'll die noisily and horribly in an NHS bed that someone with some sense could have had.

well yes, I was just appealing to their sense of social responsability and asking them nicely if they would die quietly somewhere since it's completely self inflicted and they haven't even contributed the tax revenue to cover the cost of treatment. I didn't expect that many of them would though.

This thread is funny, but yeah I agree with you cyclone. If people are foolish enough to smoke them, then they should die quietly and not use up the nhs resources that they haven't contributed to.

I had to laugh when I heard some random gravely voiced women being interviewed on the radio saying after a drag on a dodgy fag..."you can tell the difference..they stink and I bet they'll be really bad for you "!!!
erm.......hello????:loopy:

Originally posted by wibbles
I had to laugh when I heard some random gravely voiced women being interviewed on the radio saying after a drag on a dodgy fag..."you can tell the difference..they stink and I bet they'll be really bad for you "!!!
erm.......hello????:loopy:

Now that is funniest thing I have come across so far today

:hihi: :hihi:

Yes I lead a simple life

And also, it is right that the government should get a shed load of tax from people foolish enough to smoke, because it is a huge drain on the NHS.

well yes, I was just appealing to their sense of social responsability and asking them nicely if they would die quietly somewhere since it's completely self inflicted and they haven't even contributed the tax revenue to cover the cost of treatment. I didn't expect that many of them would though

I do hope you nice people never grow old enough to be a drain on the NHS, and all make a living will to cut the cost of your care.

Smoking is an addiction
I havent heard anyone saying that cannabis smokers are a drain on resources...or any other poison injester come to that

Start a thread on alcohol or any form of drug abuse and I will talk about a drain on NHS resources. I jus didn't want to go off topic.

i always thought that b/h and others made their ciggys in england and exported them to other countries for sale with that countries language printed on them

Originally posted by jan2002
I do hope you nice people never grow old enough to be a drain on the NHS, and all make a living will to cut the cost of your care.

Smoking is an addiction
I havent heard anyone saying that cannabis smokers are a drain on resources...or any other poison injester come to that

i don't avoid paying tax on my poison of choice, which is what we are talking about if you bother to read the thread.
We weren't talking about 'most' smokers, just the ones who accused the government of cynically trying to stop them buying cheap cigarettes not for their own health but to stop the loss of tax revenue.

Originally posted by Skatiechik
This thread is funny, but yeah I agree with you cyclone. If people are foolish enough to smoke them, then they should die quietly and not use up the nhs resources that they haven't contributed to.

I pay over £150 per month in NI contributions - does this not count as contributing to NHS resources?

i don't avoid paying tax on my poison of choice, which is what we are talking about if you bother to read the thread.

Is the tax collected on ciggies spent totally on the NHS then ?:confused: I don't think so

This REALLY annoys me, I take it these 'squeeky clean' people who think smokers are a drain on NHS dont take part in any kind of sport? Or if they do and get injured they pay for their treatment Privately?

I hate non-smokers - they are the most boring, uncharismatic and moaning group in society. If I can, I always try to stand really close to them while enjoying an embo, blowing smoke in thier direction - their little fake cough gets me every time.

Mat;)

Originally posted by jan2002
Is the tax collected on ciggies spent totally on the NHS then ?:confused: I don't think so

Thats not the point.

Tax all goes into one pot, and is doled out proportionately to different government departments. Each bit of taxation money doesn't have a label on it saying where it came from - and it would be daft if it did.

But that doesn't mean that cigarettes should not be taxed, you could then use a similar argument to argue against any other tax.

I thought it was a little suspect to have as a news story... wouldn't be surprised if it was a concoction of the Customs office... sort of thing a well paid PR department should be coming up with!!

Anyway, it's hardly news... everyone knows that there are different standards of manufacturing in different countries!

i wouldn't think that you hating us is a problem for most smokers, so you just carry on.
if you stand close to me and bloke smoke in my direction i'll move or ask you to stop. Does it count as assault if you don't?

Anyway, maybe you are trying to prove a point about smokers not bothering to read the full thread? There was at no point a dig against smokers who buy legal cigarettes, it was all aimed specifically at the ones who buy smuggled cigarettes.
The question about 'where' the money goes makes no sense. No tax revenue from any source is earmarked for a given purpose. As yoda already said. It goes into a central pot.
If smokers all avoided the tax then the government would have to make the same payments to the nhs as before, but have less revenue overall, so some other service would suffer.

Originally posted by mat1978
This REALLY annoys me, I take it these 'squeeky clean' people who think smokers are a drain on NHS dont take part in any kind of sport? Or if they do and get injured they pay for their treatment Privately?

I hate non-smokers - they are the most boring, uncharismatic and moaning group in society. If I can, I always try to stand really close to them while enjoying an embo, blowing smoke in thier direction - their little fake cough gets me every time.

Mat;)

Jan 2002 is right - - - Smoking - - or Nicotine IS an addiction - and withdrawal symptons are horrific.
Just note the increase in "Air Rage" on long haul flights since the None Smokers got their way!
Alcoholism too, is an addiction recognised by the NHS. and there are treatments for it.
Heroin - Crack - Cocaine - addicts can register and be given treatment by the NHS.
The poor smokers - just get told "Give it UP", are progressively treated as second class citizens, and are gradually being forced out of social contact.
Why can't I get cigarettes on prescription?
Supply me with 100 per day to start off with, and reduce them by a couple per month.
I don't have any breathing or smoking related diseases, I don't go to pubs or restaurants, I suffer the pangs quietly on all forms of public transport, ( Don't drive and Pollute the atmosphere). I too get treated to the little polite coughs, even at bus stops, in the open air. I will soon have to go up on the moors and sit on a hill top to enjoy what used to be termed as a quiet pleasure.
Pay tax to be ostracised?

I don't think anyone has really suggested (in this thread anyway) that cigarettes are taxed heavily to stop people smoking (though I guess it is kind of an unspoken assumption).

The only argument that has been used is that people who put themselves at a greater risk should contribute more tax. (in much the same way that you need to take out insurance to do some dangerous sports)

OK then define 'greater risk'... cigarette smokers pay more tax than non-smokers anyway, so we've covered ourselves in our purchase. Maybe we should tax fat people's clothing as they cost the NHS more too... or a wheelchair tax - as people with long term illnesses cost the NHS more too - would that be better?

Originally posted by Agent Dan
OK then define 'greater risk'... cigarette smokers pay more tax than non-smokers anyway, so we've covered ourselves in our purchase. Maybe we should tax fat people's clothing as they cost the NHS more too... or a wheelchair tax - as people with long term illnesses cost the NHS more too - would that be better?

You seem to be confusing cause and effect here.

The difference is that cigarette smoking is a cause, and the two examples you have quoted are an effect.

Whether you happen to think that there is just cause for taxing cigarettes or not you must be able to see the distinction?

Originally posted by Yodameister
You seem to be confusing cause and effect here.

The difference is that cigarette smoking is a cause, and the two examples you have quoted are an effect.

Whether you happen to think that there is just cause for taxing cigarettes or not you must be able to see the distinction?

Being overweight is an effect, but the government have discussed obese people paying for their NHS treatment (in the same way as smokers) because they are viewed as having the choice to be obese or not.

This is the problem. If you start charging smokers extra, then where do you draw the line? Will obese people be charged? What about crash victims - they chose to get into the car - or perhaps sporting injuries should not be on the NHS as the sport is non-essential to existence... It's a real grey area.

I believe that regardless of lifestyle choices, all british citizens should be treated fairly under the NHS, and will happily pay to help the alcoholic alongside the elderly and the injured.

Originally posted by Agent Dan
OK then define 'greater risk'... cigarette smokers pay more tax than non-smokers anyway, so we've covered ourselves in our purchase. Maybe we should tax fat people's clothing as they cost the NHS more too... or a wheelchair tax - as people with long term illnesses cost the NHS more too - would that be better?

if you are another smoker then there's strong evidence building that smoking reduces your ability to read a thread.

It was the tax avoidance issue being discussed. We have no issue with people who pay tax on their cigarettes being treated.

It's the ones who buy illegal cigarettes, get heavy metal poisoning from them and then want to be treat on the NHS who we were suggesting go and die quietly.

No way will I die quietly.
Tax Hamburgers! Tax Chocolates! Tax nagging wives!
They all contribute to the health risks - - according to the granny state.
The Custom&Excise did rear its head today (Metro Article) - - claiming that criminals are making their own counterfeit cigarettes, "Contaminated" with higher levels of "Tar - Nicotine - carbon monoxide and lead". - - Don't they mean "Unrefined Tobacco?"
Still think this is a PR exercise against the loss of tax revenue!
You breathe in higher levels of lead and Co, just walking down high street. Will they tax the air that you breathe - because it contributes to illness?

if you stand close to me and bloke smoke in my direction i'll move or ask you to stop. Does it count as assault if you don't?

yes mate, course you would.....:loopy:



The question about 'where' the money goes makes no sense. No tax revenue from any source is earmarked for a given purpose. As yoda already said. It goes into a central pot.

I dont think I asked where the money goes - My question was that isnt it the same for the thousands of sports related injuries that are treated each year on the NHS. Perhaps these people should pay extra 'sports' tax to cover the cost of thier treatment.:suspect:

Whether I choose to buy 'black market' or taxed cigarettes is of nobobies concern but my own. Would you suggest those who drink homebrew or self imported alcohol shouldnt be treated for Liver failure?

Are you really that stupid that you think the government care more about our health then the collection of tax?

I'm sorry, but it's absolute bilge!! Foreign fags contain arsenic?? Do you think I was born yesterday? Don't get me wrong, I hate smoking, but this is blatent scaremongering.

Gloves off Eh?
From my travels and work as a "Doodlebugger" I have friends in many countries. Many in the E.U.
It is perfectly legal to have cigarettes and tobacco sent as a gift - - from one E.U. citizen to another. (Not too often though).
These "Goods" are purchased at a normal outlet (Shop), and the tax, or duty paid stamp is on the packet.
There are many instances of the NHS using French and Spanish medical facilities to help them out in some areas where cost and staffing levels are causing delays here in the UK.
In the unlikely event of my needing treatment for a "Smoking Related" illness, I could ask to be sent to one of these:clap:
After all, if the Government can help themselves by using E.U. services, why can't I?
I will say, that when I do pass on to the last smoke.
(Crematorium) - - - The Council will have to De-Nicotene-ise my flat, as it seems to be the only place I can enjoy my lifetime habit. The plain "Magnolia" walls get progressively browner towards the ceiling, which itself is a beautiful "Artex" swirly cream and tan.:heyhey:

Originally posted by Sidla
I'm sorry, but it's absolute bilge!! Foreign fags contain arsenic?? Do you think I was born yesterday? Don't get me wrong, I hate smoking, but this is blatent scaremongering.

It's true, I'm afraid. All cigarettes contain arsenic (not just cheap foreign ones) and a lot more besides. A simple search on the internet will bear this out.

Scientists have found more than 4000 different chemicals with more than 300 known poisons in cigarettes. This includes carbon monoxide, tar, ammonia, formaldehyde, arsenic, dioxins etc, etc.

I can't recall why the arsenic is added, but the reason is quite strange - it does something like stopping the cigarettes from constantly going out (possibly).

I think it is the commercial "Super Refined" cigarettes that contain the most additives - - or am I convincing myself, to feed my addiction?
A well known brand of "Hand Rolling Tobacco", and papers produced from "Hemp",- - filters to mainly help shape the fag, - - - Aaaargh - Bliss.
Nitrates are embedded in cigarette paper to prevent them from going out - - - more cigarettes are burnt out in ashtrays - hence more sales. As every hand roller knows, you can put your roll up down, and it goes out. Thank God lighter fuel is not taxed too much!

All this sneering that smokers use up valuable hospital space !
How many more times do the Non-smokers need reminding that the tax on cigarettes practically pays for the N.H.S. ---or certainly a lot more than smokers use. Also---why don't they sneer at people who go driving for pleasure and geti nvolved in accidents ? Do people who go to the shops in their cars "absolutely" need them ? Plenty of people manage without cars and always have done.
What about mountaineers who get in difficulties and have to be resued--often putting the rescuers 'lives in danger.....etc...Shall we leave them all to expire on a mountain-side as they were only climbing for their own pleasure ?
Also,not only do cars cause pollution every day but the manafacture of cars causes untold pollution.
The principle is exactly the same i.e.people doing something non--essential or for pleasure which sometimes causes problems.
At least smokers do pay for their pleasures.Compared to smokers,a lot of pleasure -seekers are mere parasites.

Originally posted by Agent Dan
Being overweight is an effect, but the government have discussed obese people paying for their NHS treatment (in the same way as smokers) because they are viewed as having the choice to be obese or not.

This is the problem. If you start charging smokers extra, then where do you draw the line? Will obese people be charged? What about crash victims - they chose to get into the car - or perhaps sporting injuries should not be on the NHS as the sport is non-essential to existence... It's a real grey area.

I believe that regardless of lifestyle choices, all british citizens should be treated fairly under the NHS, and will happily pay to help the alcoholic alongside the elderly and the injured.

Well for a start you draw the line between cause and effect.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that.

For example not all obese people are that way because they eat unhealthily. I believe that the government are addressing the issues of unhealthy food with suggestions for better labelling of unhealthy products.

I think they are better off hammering the manufacturers (of both unhealthy food and cigarettes) than the poor saps who harm themselves with them (and to be fair to the government I think that is the thinking of a few people within it)

Two Jags being a prime example of "don't do as I do - - do as I say"
I still maintain that their prime incentive is to save money - not lives.

Originally posted by sheffco
Two Jags being a prime example of "don't do as I do - - do as I say"
I still maintain that their prime incentive is to save money - not lives.

Well, yes. Like any government would when anything that should be taxed is smuggled into their country - it is what the role of the Customs and Excise department is.

Measures to cut down smoking is a different (if connected) issue to that.

Tax the fast food joints out of existance - - (Business Tax)
Tax the couch potatoes out of their unhealthy ways - - computer games - home cinema's - Drive the kids out to play football - not watch it -.
You can eat virtually anything as long as you get enough exercise.
As a post war kid - - rationing and all that - my pleasures were climbing trees and collecting birds eggs (Now illegal)
Playing cowboys and Indians which involved lots of running about and yelling - (Now anti-social)
Cycling - for pleasure, trips to derbyshire 30 or 40 miles return.
(Now dangerous - because of traffic and road fumes)
Having led an active life running up and down sand dunes etc. I don't need an expensive or stylish "Gym" just running for a bus now and then will do.
HM Customs&Excise lost in their illegal seizure of alcohol and tobacco from the booze cruises. They will lose the battle against tobacco sent by post.
Cheap spirits and cider (Bathtub) manufacture is a more dangerous product than tobacco - - lots of it sold to the "Couch Potato's" for consumption while watching "Sport" on Digital TV.
A double Whammy for the heart attack figures and statistics