im doing some research, and i need some opinions. what do you think of the concept of a world without money? everything would be free as long as you were working. so you could have as much of anything as you needed as long as you worked.

cheers

How would you exchange goods?

you wouldnt, everything is avaliable to everybody so you do not exchange anything except your work.

you would order all goods from one source. and as long as you could prove that you were working you could have as much as you needed.

does the world have enough resources to meet the demand?

in what sense? what demand?

if anyone could have anything they wanted then we would run out of resources. People who have been poor would go mental getting all the things they've ever wanted. .....big house, flash car, jewellery, private jet, own a boat etc etc

If I worked and I decided I'd like a porsche 911, an Astin Martin DB7 and a smart car for nipping around town, would I be able to have them?

its not a question of if you could have them, it is why would you want them?

Originally posted by XADRIAN
if anyone could have anything they wanted then we would run out of resources. People who have been poor would go mental getting all the things they've ever wanted. .....big house, flash car, jewellery, private jet, own a boat etc etc

why would people want a flash car or jewellery?......

posessions make people happy and comfortable....I'd rather live in a nice house than a crappy one, plus I'd rather drive a porsch than a peugot

why would you rather drive a porsche than a peugot?

it gets me from A to B quicker than the peugeot and the car looks nice

xxxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by paulend
why would people want a flash car or jewellery?......

They look nice

what if everybody had a porsche would it still be so appealing?

xxxxxxxxxxx

why would there be greed and corruption?

I don't care what everyone else has....so yes it would be appealing.

yes, i just need an answer, why?

Originally posted by XADRIAN
I don't care what everyone else has....so yes it would be appealing.

ask yourself why it is so appaeling to you

There are plenty of societies who don't use money, or only use it for exchange once in a blue moon. But just because they don't have the folding stuff, it does not mean that everyone is equal. They just don't decide status based on posessions.

Even in commie countries, the govt tried to give incentives to work hard: recognition, medals, holiday flats on the black sea, skodas, etc.

Working without money can only ever work in very small scale societies, where everyone more or less knows each other.

xxxxxxxxxxx

I'm getting bored....XADRIAN's head hits the keyboard ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Originally posted by huwj
paulend, do you want us to question our basic beliefs, or do you genuinely not undestand why communism doesn't work, and why the majority of the western world is made up of capitalists???

if you don't undestand then i will try to explain but if you are trying to get us to question our materialistic lives then i'm quite happy thanks and will retire from this thread :D

im trying to get you to think

no one is keeping you here

its all an experiment

Asking people the same question over and over again does not tend to make them think, just a bit annoyed.

Would you agree that this idea is communism? (or whichever of its many lables you want to use)

I have to say tht I think it would be great - demand wouldn't be high if you had never KNOWN a world with money .... think about it like that

you are the one that is labeling it..... it is just an idea

i am not here to annoy.....just to question

Surely the main reason communism as practised didn't work was that consumerism was visible and appeared more attractive. Without the model of the west against which to compare their lives would people living under communism have been more contented? If the whole world adopted the 'moneyless' society mooted then eventually consumer goods would become 'samey'. There would be no need for porsches or peugeots (by the way the peugeot 406 v6 coupe has the same 0 - 60 and top speed as the porsche boxster give or take a 1/10th of a second).

Why have something 'better' than your neighbour as it wouldn't show that you earnt more or worked harder or were better in anyway?

It would probably be a pretty grey world but, IMO, would only work if there were no alternative available.

If its an idea that has been thought of before (by a Mr Marx, I believe), then someone labelled it before me.

Who labelled it comunism any way - the guy was only asking a question wasn't he ?

The problem is in decisions. Someone has to decide who makes how much of what and when. A manager class. Maxt says it would be a pretty grey world. Have you read 1984?

What would be the most sought after work/career in this moneyless world and what qualifications would you need/not need ?

when you refer to it as a "grey world" is this because you think that there will be no variety in the goods or because there would be no brands?

Originally posted by oxbeast
The problem is in decisions. Someone has to decide who makes how much of what and when. A manager class. Maxt says it would be a pretty grey world. Have you read 1984?

I disagree. Society can pretty much get on on its own without somebody making decisions. Humanity used to hunt together in much the same way that certain animals do now. They simply worked out the most efficient way without any one person taking command. It was only later on in our history that 'leaders' started appearing and I'm afraid that in any society that humans create there would be the alpha male or female who would consider themselves better than the rank and file and start organising people into more 'efficient' ways of doing things.

Originally posted by paulend
when you refer to it as a "grey world" is this because you think that there will be no variety in the goods or because there would be no brands?

Both. Don't you think that there is something obscene in having 2 aisles in a supermarket dedicated to breakfast cereals when millions starve the world over?

Originally posted by Michael_W
What would be the most sought after work/career in this moneyless world and what qualifications would you need/not need ?

no job would be "sought after" by everybody, as there is no direct insentive to do any specific job. you would do the job that you are best at.

Because there would be little scope for individuality. Having the same task throughtout your whole life, maybe living in the same place. Why move? Having very little to look forward to. Being told what your career would be.

I suppose a lot of people have been happy in this type of existence. But again, maxt's point that people always aspire to something else is s astrong one. After all, ther Berlin Wall was built to keep people in, not out. Covetuousness is powerful in th human psyche, apart from a few hunter gatherer groups I've heard about.

No incentive = no productivity so there would be few material things to be had for 'free' surely !

http://www.primitivism.com/zerzan.htm

Originally posted by maxt
Both. Don't you think that there is something obscene in having 2 aisles in a supermarket dedicated to breakfast cereals when millions starve the world over?

although there will be no brands there will still be variety in the goods. take shampoo, there will not be a number of brands creating shampoo for dry hair, there will just be "shampoo" and you will be able to get varients on this shampoo..... dry hair, thin hair etc....

Originally posted by paulend
although there will be no brands there will still be variety in the goods. take shampoo, there will not be a number of brands creating shampoo for dry hair, there will just be "shampoo" and you will be able to get varients on this shampoo..... dry hair, thin hair etc....

There is an argument that these are different products not variants. There I just made it so it must be an argument.

There would probably ne need for different sizes, though.

oxbeast, why would you have to do the same thing all your life? If the only criterion for getting goods is working then this could be anything from experienced nut gatherer to trainee social worker. Over time the necessary skills would remain and the others, like estate agents, telephone hygienists (sp) and hairdressers would fall by the wayside.

I'll be a shampoo maker then and have a Porsche and nice house with a pool and a lady servent.

Keep poking em paulend and you will get some more responses, but I am staying out of this one.

Sorry, not being rude, but I've got to go.
I suppose a career change is possible, but from what I know of communist countries
you did what you were good at
managers saw you were good
why should they train you to do anything else

And paulend, how is a variant on a product different to a seperate product?

Anyway, I'm off clock here at work, I'd better go an skive somewhere else...

Originally posted by maxt
There is an argument that these are different products not variants. There I just made it so it must be an argument.

the definition of "product" may differ from person to person. this is not my point, you said earlier that it would be a grey world, which i took to mean as no variety, i asked if you meant brands or variety and you replied "both" i am stating that there will be variety but without brands, so will it still be grey?

A world without money wouldn't work, if you introduced such a free for all there would be anarchy, no discipline, it would lead to everyone doing as they liked without giving in return, crime would increase a hundred fold, how would you organise such a hairbrained scheme? The suggestion is ludicrouis, go away and think again!!!

Originally posted by mikey
I'll be a shampoo maker then and have a Porsche and nice house with a pool and a lady servent.

the point is why would you desire a porsche? who would build your nice house and pool and who would want to be you servent, if you were not prepared to do all this yourself?

Y'all wanna handbag each or ya wanna share ?????????????

Exactly Hal, everything has a value (time) so therefore becomes currency, how much shampoo = a porsche ?

Originally posted by halevan
A world without money wouldn't work, if you introduced such a free for all there would be anarchy, no discipline, it would lead to everyone doing as they liked without giving in return, crime would increase a hundred fold, how would you organise such a hairbrained scheme? The suggestion is ludicrouis, go away and think again!!!

would there be crime if the item was avaliable to you in the same amount of time as it took to steal it?

Originally posted by Michael_W
Exactly Hal, everything has a value (time) so therefore becomes currency, how much shampoo = a porsche ?

nothing will have value.

im out.... your replies have been most appreciated. ill be back if anyone wants to carry on the experiment.8)

I think a world without money is a great idea. I don't care about the practicalities I just like to dream.

A world without money wouldn't workYes i think it would!

The world has gotton MONEY CRAZY and quality has gone WAY DOWN HILL if you dont pay up!! (They give you crap for the same amount of $$$ 20 yrs ago that would have been MUCH BETTER!)

If Quality was still here (Like it was 20yrs and before ago) and $$$ didnt decide who had what,THE WORLD WOULD BE MUCH BETTER... (Everyone would get the same good quality regardless)

What would happen if you were unable to work?

Shoot you like a lame horse?

Stupid stupid idea. In a large 'colony' money is needed in exchange for goods and services. If there is no money then society as we know it would breakdown. Now, I say large colonies as there are small pockets of people (mostly islanders living god knows where) who trade services. Eg a house needs building, they go to the next island and trade someone who can build a house for someone who can build a boat for a couple of weeks.

At the end of the day we are animals, and its our instinct to hoard and get as many resources as possible for our own personal gain. Unless there is a cap on this then expect anarchy and a total breakdown.

why would there be greed and corruption?

Because you said all goods would come from one source- who/what controls that? The workers there, management of distribution, how would you get around them having more power than the regular average joe bloggs?

Both. Don't you think that there is something obscene in having 2 aisles in a supermarket dedicated to breakfast cereals when millions starve the world over?

What I do find obscene is that whilst millions starve, we have two aisles dedicated to cat and dog food....they eat better in the UK than many people eat in other parts of the world.