After watching the news last night I was alarmed by the story about Britain's knife culture. I was totally shocked to hear how there currently is no mandatory minimum sentence for carrying such a lethal weapon. I know the Home Office will be reviewing the currently laws on this during week. If you could influence the Home Office's recommendation to tackle this growing problem what would you suggest?

Originally posted by Dick Dastardly
After watching the news last night I was alarmed by the story about Britain's knife culture. I was totally shocked to hear how there currently is no mandatory minimum sentence for carrying such a lethal weapon. I know the Home Office will be reviewing the currently laws on this during week. If you could influence the Home Office's recommendation to tackle this growing problem what would you suggest?

i would suggest maybe a short minimum sentence (1 year) and an increased maximum (at the courts discretion). Making the sentence equal to that for carrying a firearm is excessive as a knife is clearly a less effective weapon than a gun.

Originally posted by Cyclone
i would suggest maybe a short minimum sentence (1 year) and an increased maximum (at the courts discretion). Making the sentence equal to that for carrying a firearm is excessive as a knife is clearly a less effective weapon than a gun.

I don't know about that. The knife is a very effective weapon and is extremely lethal. As far as I'm concerned, if someone is carrying a knife then they are intent on using it and therefore should be punished severely!!

Originally posted by Dick Dastardly
I don't know about that. The knife is a very effective weapon and is extremely lethal. As far as I'm concerned, if someone is carrying a knife then they are intent on using it and therefore should be punished severely!!

it's short range, requires a level of skill to use effectively and cannot be used to effectively attack a large number of targets.

compared to a gun which;

is ranged, is point and click, can rapidly be used to attack multiple targets, can easily injure people who were not the target.

not much comparison. the only advantage of the knife is that it's quiet.

Whether you pack a gun or knive, the purpose of the two are exactly the same, to seriously injure and/or kill and therefore the law should reflect this and give mandatory minimum sentences to anyone who carries either of the above. I think it's 5 years for anyone with a firearm so I'd like the same to be applied to the latter.

knifing someone seems more intimate than shooting em. its up close and personal, evil really

Like I've said many times before, I will never understand the reasoning behind carrying knives around in person, what possible use does it serve apart from intent to injure ?

The guys who stabbed me were fined £150 between them for ABH & GBH and given community service of some sort..

Knives are a weapon, plain and simple.. Laws should be tighter IMO.

carrying an offensive weapon already has upto a 2 year jail sentence.
what makes you think that making it longer will alter the amount of people carrying them?

i agree with stop n search that police do, i also agree with metal det in schools/colleges/uni's

It probably won't Cyclone but how many have been subjected to this '2 year sentance'... Very few I bet.. Just a Court appearance and told not to do it again I imagine :suspect:

Originally posted by Deejay
Like I've said many times before, I will never understand the reasoning behind carrying knives around in person, what possible use does it serve apart from intent to injure ?


Intent to cut packing tape maybe? Or string?

I usually carry a locking penknife - not because I am stab-mad, but because I frequently require the services of a blade for cutting purposes.

Are Penknifes Illeagal ? I think not :confused:

Could you justify carrying a 4 inch kitchen knife around with you for cutting tape and string ?

folding knives with a blade of <3" are not covered by existing legislation.

any reasonable use for carrying a knife is sufficient to escape prosecution (or conviction if you didn't convince the copper).

This is being debated on a jiu jitsu website (http://www.planetjitsu.com/viewtopic.php?t=11509&start=0) because we use live weapons in training sometimes and wondered if it would affect us as we have to transport the weapons too and from the dojo.

what on earth do people carry penknives for?

i carry a knife in my pack when rock climbing camping,checked with the police and as its in a rucksack and for a specific purpose its legal but not if worn or carried about my person in public,now i remember a case a while back where a young seik lad had a small one in school ,and the point bieng ,at a certain age it is his sign of approaching manhood,how will the new law effect his culture ?all of this has to be taken into consideration

Originally posted by Deejay
Are Penknifes Illeagal ? I think not :confused:

Could you justify carrying a 4 inch kitchen knife around with you for cutting tape and string ?

I don't know of any knives that are illegal deej. I was just saying that anyone carrying a knife is not necessarily out to injure someone as you suggested.

My blade is 70mm long - long enough to stab someone in the heart, but also the perfect tool for slicing cheese, slitting tape, cutting string and slashing tyres.

So the law at present disregards folding knives with a blade less than 3" long?

1. You can easily stab someone to death with a knife like this - no problem

2. If carrying a larger knife is made an offence in its own right, those with malicious intent will switch from their bowies to their gerber lock knives and thus circumvent the law.

3. A 3" blade is much more easily concealed, even in the palm of the hand - an extra inch or of steel makes no difference to the efficacy of it as a killing tool.

This legislation will need a lot of careful thought to be at all enforceable.

Originall posted by NatalieSheff
what on earth do people carry penknives for?

Cutting things. It used to be pens (quills), but it's amazing what you will find needs cutting when you have a penknife in your pocket.

Ahhh, thats where Im getting confused, I thought there was some law in place. Now I know thats not the case, ta Phan :thumbsup:

it is currently the law.
let me dig out the current wording, the only change that is being considered is the sentence.

specific exemptions are already defined in the law, which includes carrying the knife for a specific lawful purpose, carrying it as part of a national costume, or as part of a religous costume.

here we go;

Section 139 Criminal Justice Act 1988
139.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—
(a) for use at work;
(b) for religious reasons; or
(c) as part of any national costume.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) In this section "public place" includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

( 8 ) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

A knife can be an essential first aid tool.

I'm quite concerned about knives within schools. How about Airport type scanners at school entrances.

I was always under the impression that the 3" blade thing also included the fact the blade had to be only accessable via using both hands... eg, no flick knifes... so that you could slip it out your pocket, open it and slit someones neck open...

it doesnt say that in what Cyclone posted, or not that I can see...

personally I never have any such object on my person, I have no use for any sort of knife... but I do carry many pens...

in the end isnt it the people that are the problem, not the objects, i could walk around town with a chainsaw, but I'm not going to harm anyone with it, give a murdering psycopath a pencil and I'm sure he could kill loads of people by jamming it into their throats or something :P

i suppose a flick knife could be described as a <3" folding knife. So I expect that they are covered under specific legislation that prohibits not only carrying them in public, but the sale, purchase and ownership of them.

Of course a lock knife can generally be opened with a squeeze and flick of the wrist and locks into place once open, and a ballisong is easily openable with one hand (although they may be illegal also).

I too carry a small lock knife which I use frequently, I'd be lost without it. If I was pulled over and had it taken from me I wouldn't really mind I'd just buy a new one.

I think stopping everyone from carrying pocket knives is just stupid. People will just resort to carrying Scissors or something. I do however think it should be illegal for anyone under 18 to carry a knife on the street.

I was best man at my mate's wedding in August & we both carried knives! :suspect:

Not because his bird's family are villains or owt ... but
because it was in full Highland dress.
We had to wear a wee Skhian Dhu (spelling*)
in our sock garter - in the street! This was unusual.
Especially as his 8 yr old son (previous marriage)
who was also in drag had one too :wow: but his was a 'dummy'. :?

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
I was best man at my mate's wedding in August & we both carried knives! :suspect:

Not because his bird's family are villains or owt ... but
because it was in full Highland dress.
We had to wear a wee Skhian Dhu (spelling*)
in our sock garter - in the street! This was unusual.
Especially as his 8 yr old son (previous marriage)
who was also in drag had one too :wow: but his was a 'dummy'. :?

and this is relevant how?
Cultural costumes are exempt as it says in the quote i posted.

Originally posted by Cyclone
and this is relevant how?
Cultural costumes are exempt as it says in the quote i posted.

D'oh! I'll have to start reading every mammoth reply instead of 'scanning' :confused:

It was never intended to offer any solution to the world's troubles - just a light hearted tongue-in-cheek addition. I thought from reading these threads that the odd quip was tolerated? sorry Mr relevant - won't do it again - :roll:

sorry, had a few too many guinesses, lucky that my reply made any sort of sence really.